Joe Brolly

[screenexile]

As a matter of interest how many of ye agree with Geezer that Brolly didn't really take his GAA career that seriously and wasted his talent?

Wasted talent? I wouldn't say that he wasted his talent he has an All Ireland, 2 Ulster Championships, 4 NFL's, a Ryan Cup, an Ulster Championship with his club, a couple of County Championships along with 2 All Stars.

With a haul like that I wish people would say I wasted my talent!!!

Could he have applied himself more and won a couple more All Stars? I would say most definitely and I think he would say so himself but GAA was changing as he went through his career and the demands of men like Mullins didn't sit well with him and I think him and Mullins didn't see eye to eye at all.

Had Coleman stayed on after 1994 I think we would have seen Brolly pick up at least another All Star but we fucked up back then big time and that's just the way that goes I guess!!

[WT4E]

As a matter of interest how many of ye agree with Geezer that Brolly didn't really take his GAA career that seriously and wasted his talent?

Wasted talent? I wouldn't say that he wasted his talent he has an All Ireland, 2 Ulster Championships, 4 NFL's, a Ryan Cup, an Ulster Championship with his club, a couple of County Championships along with 2 All Stars.

With a haul like that I wish people would say I wasted my talent!!!

Could he have applied himself more and won a couple more All Stars? I would say most definitely and I think he would say so himself but GAA was changing as he went through his career and the demands of men like Mullins didn't sit well with him and I think him and Mullins didn't see eye to eye at all.

Had Coleman stayed on after 1994 I think we would have seen Brolly pick up at least another All Star but we fucked up back then big time and that's just the way that goes I guess!!

Agreed - Which points to the big possibility that McGeeney was obviously trying to get at Brolly at the funeral in front of his friends.

[Esmarelda]

I found Hogan and the interviewer's view on Johnston bizarre. Kerry didn't go looking for forwards because they have good forwards?

Since when did GAA teams go looking outside their own for ANY players?

[screenexile]

As a matter of interest how many of ye agree with Geezer that Brolly didn't really take his GAA career that seriously and wasted his talent?

Wasted talent? I wouldn't say that he wasted his talent he has an All Ireland, 2 Ulster Championships, 4 NFL's, a Ryan Cup, an Ulster Championship with his club, a couple of County Championships along with 2 All Stars.

With a haul like that I wish people would say I wasted my talent!!!

Could he have applied himself more and won a couple more All Stars? I would say most definitely and I think he would say so himself but GAA was changing as he went through his career and the demands of men like Mullins didn't sit well with him and I think him and Mullins didn't see eye to eye at all.

Had Coleman stayed on after 1994 I think we would have seen Brolly pick up at least another All Star but we fucked up back then big time and that's just the way that goes I guess!!

Agreed - Which points to the big possibility that McGeeney was obviously trying to get at Brolly at the funeral in front of his friends.

I don't think that's true. I think McGeeney is the type of character who would be serious about that type of thing. He wants to be the best he can possibly be at all times and doesn't understand people who aren't like that which is why he asked that of Brolly.

Brolly had talent hanging out of him but he had no interest in killing himself with long runs or weights to make sure he was as good as possible. He enjoyed the game and was good at it and that was enough for him... That wouldn't wash with McGeeney I don't think!

[WT4E]

Yeah I know what you're saying but it was strange time to bring it up surely?

[Fuzzman]

Of course we don't know for sure but I'd say McGeeney brought it up cos he knew Brolly was always a smart arse and was always rubbing people up the wrong way. I'd imagine it was McGeeney's attempt to bringing him down a peg or two in front of his old team mates, who many themselves thought Joe was an awful eejit and so many would agree with McGeeney.

[seafoid]

The thing about McGeeney is the intensity.  Brolly made the point that life is more nuanced.

[Beffs]

It is such a shame that Brolly personalizes things to the degree that he does. I just switch off when he does that. I imagine others do too. Why some former players find it very hard to succeed as managers is a fascinating subject. It deserves proper exploration. Brolly is just not capable of doing it, without getting the cheap digs in, which detracts a lot from the over all points he is trying to make.

[thewobbler]

Some, for me, odd comments about Joe not making the most of his ability.

Apart from giving over a decade of service to his county, hewas in his 30s and retired from the county game before that horrible combination of the back door qualifiers and the Celtic Tiger knocked  together to create semi-professional GAA players.

Comparing anyone who peaked pre-2000 with anyone who did so after that landmark, is a completely unfair exercise for the elder statesmen.

Living like a monk in the name of amateur sport in the early 1990s would have been truly, truly odd behaviour.

[Zulu]

I think many former players make good coaches/managers. The issue I think, is that some great players quickly get appointed to high profile jobs without ever learning their trade so we have lots of examples of great players failing as managers. We are particularly bad at this in the GAA where a great player could have his pick of managerial posts while a very good, experienced club coach may never even get a shot at a high profile job.

[BennyHarp]

Maybe McGeeney meant that because Joe clearly knows the best way to prepare teams and can easily point out every other managers failings that he is a wasted talent in terms of management because he hasn't had the balls to step up put himself forward for an intercounty panel himself! In that respect his indepth knowledge of intercounty management is clearly wasted.

[Donnellys Hollow]

I can't speak for Armagh but from a Kildare viewpoint I would say McGeeney did very well for about four out of the six years he was here. Things went downhill in 2012 when the team started to break apart which 'coincidentally' was around the same time that the Johnston saga started.

He took over a team that had barely won a game between 2004 and 2007. We were totally reliant on Johnny Doyle because Dermot Earley was perennially injured. He probably did take over at an opportune time because there were some good players breaking through back then from a few good u21 teams - the 2004 team won Leinster, 2005 lost the Leinster Final to Dublin after a replay, 2006 beat Dublin in the Leinster Championship and the 2008 team reached the All Ireland losing to Kerry in the final. He moulded that group of players into a competitive outfit between 2008 and 2011 and looking back he probably did get the best out of them.

Kildare hadn't reached a 1/4 Final before 2008 and they had only won three qualifiers since they were introduced in 2001 - (Donegal in 2001, Cavan in 2006, Roscommon in 2007). Between 2008 and 2013, Kildare reached the 1/4 Finals in all but the final year and they only lost one qualifier in those six years. People will say they didn't beat a big team or win a Leinster Championship which is correct but I would be hard pushed to pick out any match against a big team during that period which Kildare should have won. Generally they played well but just weren't good enough.

Joe Brolly says that "Kildare created the opportunity to win big games and then blew it," highlighting the Down 1/2 Final in 2010 and the Donegal 1/4 Final in 2011. Looking back at the Down game, Kildare were well behind for most of it after Benny Coulter's goal. They clawed their way back into it and almost snatched it at the death - they were never really in a position to win that game. The Donegal game was different but Joe is incorrect to say they were four points up in extra time. Unfortunately we never managed to get that fourth point which would have probably put us out of sight despite having a few opportunities. Each wide we kicked seemed to sap the energy out of them and give Donegal hope. It probably doesn't suit Joe's argument to mention that Donegal went three up with ten minutes to go in normal time after Christy Toye goaled and that Kildare scrapped out a draw kicking the last three points. Had Tomas O'Connor's goal early in the second half stood Kildare would have probably won comfortably. They had played for four consecutive weeks in the qualifiers and were shagged by the second period of extra time. The only other game during that period which Kildare lost narrowly was also in 2011 against Dublin. Again Kildare were never really in a position to win it and only found themselves close by sticking at it despite being outplayed for a lot of the game.

I was never as big a fan of McGeeney as some people within Kildare but it's hard to crab what he achieved with the team between 2008 and 2011. The Johnston circus was a serious error of judgement which turned a lot of GAA people in the county against him. 2012 and 2013 were turbulent but even after he was ousted in 2013 the players were still 100% behind him. Throughout his reign there were very few lads who opted out. Contrast that to 2014 and 2015 under Jason Ryan when there were players dropping like flies left right and centre. His team was fiercely committed and rarely failed to leave it all out there on the field.  He had his tactical limitations but I do know that the Kildare lads rated him very highly as a motivator and a man manager. Joe's article is wide of the mark in that respect. If he didn't believe in those players, he did a great job of conning them into thinking that he had belief in them.

[seafoid]

Maybe McGeeney meant that because Joe clearly knows the best way to prepare teams and can easily point out every other managers failings that he is a wasted talent in terms of management because he hasn't had the balls to step up put himself forward for an intercounty panel himself! In that respect his indepth knowledge of intercounty management is clearly wasted.

brolly's talents are more suited to media work. He is one of the best GAA writers

[Throw ball]

As an Armagh man I am pleased to read that summary. At the minute I feel he is at a crossroads with Armagh. He was unlucky in that he took over Armagh when they had their best run in quite a while in the championship. Division 3 football really hindered development for the championship. He has also lost key players in Caolan Rafferty, Aaron Kernan and Jamie Clarke through (probably) no fault of his own. There have also been bad injuries to McKeever, Donaghy and Dyas. In many respects he has been trying to develop a new team with very few experienced heads to help guide them. In the league Armagh were awful against Meath and Laois and never turned up against a fairly good Cavan team. Things turned too late but signs of improvement are there. In this respect playing Division 3 next year could be a disaster next year. The championship performances this year may decide if Brolly has a point or not.

I also see it posted again here that he bankrupted Kildare. In my opinion a manager cannot do this. If a county cannot afford something it is up to the finance committee to ensure the money is not spent. Proper systems need to be in place to control spending. The manager should not be able to authorise spending. I do not know what the finances in Kildare were like but if they did struggle financially the problem would extend further that the team manager.

[Beffs]

Maybe McGeeney meant that because Joe clearly knows the best way to prepare teams and can easily point out every other managers failings that he is a wasted talent in terms of management because he hasn't had the balls to step up put himself forward for an intercounty panel himself! In that respect his indepth knowledge of intercounty management is clearly wasted.

I doubt if Brolly's career would allow him enough time off to be an inter county manager or selector. M'lud wouldn't be terribly impressed, if Brolly had to scarper in the middle of a trial, as he had an U21 game to attend, or he had to prep for a trip to Croke Park.