Joe Brolly

[Croí na hÉireann]

Can add Declan Bogue into the silent observer list, which coincidentally also consists the recipient of his tweet https://twitter.com/DeclanBogue/status/585752721241858049?s=09

Oh oh. I'm in trouble now. I wish Declan had added the next sentence though, because I'm sure Ewan will say he has loads of opinions.

Limited to 140 characters, Declan you should have just posted the link to the whole lot 

[yellowcard]

The black card has not worked, can someone not pull Brolly up on this issue since he was its biggest supporter. It seems like plenty disagree with him but nobody has the guts to challenge him on the issues. He offers evidence of plenty of the problems but has yet to present a feasible solution to the ills of the modern game. 

Tyrone, and Mickey Harte in particular have been slated by him in recent years yet they have rarely failed to challenge him on some of his opinions. As a consequence he appears to have a license to say what he wants against them and create a public perception of them as being the enemies of football when the reality is they are no more culpable than most other counties.   

[smelmoth]

On the black card you and everyone else are free to challenge Brolly. Just point out which (or is it all) of the black card offences that you want to either legalise or reduce the penalty for? Just set out your rationale and your evidence. the floor is yours.

tyrone and Mickey Harte have not challenged Brolly. They have complained about him but they have not set out a counter argument

[AZOffaly]

The black card has not worked, can someone not pull Brolly up on this issue since he was his biggest supporter. It seems like plenty disagree with him but nobody has the guts to challenge him on the issues. He offers evidence of plenty of the problems but has yet to present a feasible solution to the ills of the modern game. 

Tyrone, and Mickey Harte in particular have been slated by him in recent years yet they have rarely failed to challenge him on some of his opinions. As a consequence he appears to have a license to say what he wants against them and create a public perception of them as being the enemies of football when the reality is they are no less culpable than most other counties.   

yellowcard. Why do you say the black card has 'not worked'? What aim of the black card do you think it has failed to achieve?

I think it has worked, by and large, and the only aims it has failed to achieve are aims ascribed to it by other people and those aims were never really aims of the black card in the first place.

As far as I am aware the black card was introduced to try and combat the spate of cynical fouling in the game. They focussed on a set of 5 fouls. (I would have added the jersey pull and diving myself, but I digress).

I think it is fair to say there has been a reduction in the number of off the ball body checks, deliberate pull downs and deliberate trips. So it has been a success in it's actual, stated, aims as far as I can see.

[imtommygunn]

On the black card you and everyone else are free to challenge Brolly. Just point out which (or is it all) of the black card offences that you want to either legalise or reduce the penalty for? Just set out your rationale and your evidence. the floor is yours.

tyrone and Mickey Harte have not challenged Brolly. They have complained about him but they have not set out a counter argument

Irrespective of whatever point he makes he seems to be quite agenda driven. In terms of football over the last number of years then Donegal's first year under McGuinness was as dire as it gets. Did he criticise them? A lot of his points are fuelled by the Tyrone - Derry rivalry

What's the old saying "play the ball not the man". When you "play the man" your point(s) is pretty much redundant. In the case of Joe Brolly and his Mickey Harte points to me they mean nothing. It's nothing but pettiness.  He's firing out way too many insults.

[yellowcard]

The black card has not worked, can someone not pull Brolly up on this issue since he was his biggest supporter. It seems like plenty disagree with him but nobody has the guts to challenge him on the issues. He offers evidence of plenty of the problems but has yet to present a feasible solution to the ills of the modern game. 

Tyrone, and Mickey Harte in particular have been slated by him in recent years yet they have rarely failed to challenge him on some of his opinions. As a consequence he appears to have a license to say what he wants against them and create a public perception of them as being the enemies of football when the reality is they are no less culpable than most other counties.   

yellowcard. Why do you say the black card has 'not worked'? What aim of the black card do you think it has failed to achieve?

I think it has worked, by and large, and the only aims it has failed to achieve are aims ascribed to it by other people and those aims were never really aims of the black card in the first place.

As far as I am aware the black card was introduced to try and combat the spate of cynical fouling in the game. They focussed on a set of 5 fouls. (I would have added the jersey pull and diving myself, but I digress).

I think it is fair to say there has been a reduction in the number of off the ball body checks, deliberate pull downs and deliberate trips. So it has been a success in it's actual, stated, aims as far as I can see.

It didn't need the introduction of a black card imo to tidy up these fouls. A sin bin system for specific fouls was a much better option imo. How often do we see teams in the lead cynically try and close games out in the last 5/10 minutes by deliberately fouling. In some instances it pays to get some form of sanctioning from the ref as it slows done the play and allows teams to reset into a defensive shape which was the intention of the foul in the first place. Ticks, yellows, blacks and reds is simply too much administration for referees and buys time for the offending team to filter men back. 

[JoG2]

You Tyrone boys and Joe Brolly. The penning of that article is mad craic and more than a waste of time. It's giving Brolly more lime light!  Ignore the hooer and move on if he offends you so much. He done something amazing for our club recently so I have alot of admiration for him. But does flirt with controversy a little too often

[AZOffaly]

The black card has not worked, can someone not pull Brolly up on this issue since he was his biggest supporter. It seems like plenty disagree with him but nobody has the guts to challenge him on the issues. He offers evidence of plenty of the problems but has yet to present a feasible solution to the ills of the modern game. 

Tyrone, and Mickey Harte in particular have been slated by him in recent years yet they have rarely failed to challenge him on some of his opinions. As a consequence he appears to have a license to say what he wants against them and create a public perception of them as being the enemies of football when the reality is they are no less culpable than most other counties.   

yellowcard. Why do you say the black card has 'not worked'? What aim of the black card do you think it has failed to achieve?

I think it has worked, by and large, and the only aims it has failed to achieve are aims ascribed to it by other people and those aims were never really aims of the black card in the first place.

As far as I am aware the black card was introduced to try and combat the spate of cynical fouling in the game. They focussed on a set of 5 fouls. (I would have added the jersey pull and diving myself, but I digress).

I think it is fair to say there has been a reduction in the number of off the ball body checks, deliberate pull downs and deliberate trips. So it has been a success in it's actual, stated, aims as far as I can see.

It didn't need the introduction of a black card imo to tidy up these fouls. A sin bin system for specific fouls was a much better option imo. How often do we see teams in the lead cynically try and close games out in the last 5/10 minutes by deliberately fouling. In some instances it pays to get some form of sanctioning from the ref as it slows done the play and allows teams to reset into a defensive shape which was the intention of the foul in the first place. Ticks, yellows, blacks and reds is simply too much administration for referees and buys time for the offending team to filter men back.

I agree with the sin bin. I thought that was the way to go, but unfortunately that was shot down before it ever had a chance to show what it might have done. In he absence of the sin bin, I think the black card is a decent alternative for this specific purpose.

It may not stop the cynical stuff in the last 5 minutes, but it does help in the cynical stuff which was going on out the field for the preceding 65 minutes as well! I always hark back to the Cavan Kerry game a few years ago. Kerry gave a masterclass that day in cynical fouling out the field where there was no danger imminent, and they were well in control. Now I'm a big fan of Kerry, but that day was a perfect example of how that sort of thing had been implemented in a game plan to kill momentum of a counter attack and was basically punishment free. The black card has eliminated that.

[blewuporstuffed]

Apart from the fact Kerry still did it last sunday 

[AZOffaly]

I think most of that is the drag back, which I think should be a black card offence.

[BennyHarp]

On the black card you and everyone else are free to challenge Brolly. Just point out which (or is it all) of the black card offences that you want to either legalise or reduce the penalty for? Just set out your rationale and your evidence. the floor is yours.

tyrone and Mickey Harte have not challenged Brolly. They have complained about him but they have not set out a counter argument

The black card in itself is not necessarily the issue as nobody can argue that the offences are indeed fouls, (though personally, I think it was uncalled for as there was sanctions in place for all the offences if applied correctly orif we had to change something a 10 min sin bin would have been much more effective) But the big thing for me is the unintended consequences. At the risk if repeating myself, in my opinion, the fear of the black card had led to much more withdrawn defences. This was a consequence that was flagged up by many coaches during the discussion before its implementation. This makes me wonder whether current coaches actually played any part of the consultation process or were those involved arrogant enough to think their ideas would save football without any trial period or input from those who would be working with it (or around it) Those who shout loudest get heard and Joe shouts very loud. I don't think for one minute that Joe had the tactical understanding to think what the consequences may be. Has he put forward an analysis of how the blanket works? Explain it to us Joe? Has he put forward a tactical analysis of how to work around it? Has he suggested reasons why managers are going down this route? Has he an understanding of the pressures involved in managing a county at the top level - explain what it's like to us Joe? Surely, with all these people he talks to, he can get an inkling to put together a proper analysis of modern football. I'd challenge Joe to watch the Tyrone v Kerry game and ignore any populist bullshit and analyse the game, the tactics and what the teams were trying to do? I've have never seen him or read an article were he has done this. Ultimately though, this phase will pass and the game will move on but shouty people's opinions need to treated with a pinch of salt.

[AZOffaly]

One thing about that Benny, though, is that the blanket defense, and the tactical approach to keeping things tight, was already well under way before last year. This is not a new development, it's just getting more common. As I said, Offaly and Westmeath played out a sterile, boring, defensive game at least 3 years ago.

[BennyHarp]

One thing about that Benny, though, is that the blanket defense, and the tactical approach to keeping things tight, was already well under way before last year. This is not a new development, it's just getting more common. As I said, Offaly and Westmeath played out a sterile, boring, defensive game at least 3 years ago.

I agree but not to the level we are seeing now. I believe about 12 months ago people were commenting that Dublin had brought a fresh attacking approach that teams were adopting, Tyrone even went man for man in the league!!! Now, a year and a half after the black card and we are talking 14 man defences.

[AZOffaly]

I think that's more to do with the fact that Dublin blew people away with that approach.

But actually, when you think about it, the fouls I'm talking about up the field were specifically committed to allow the teammates to get back into the blanket defences, or at least into their defensive positions, and stopped quick counters.  Damned if you do, and damned if you don't I suppose.

Pre-Black card you could commit more to attack, foul if you lost it, and retreat.

Post Black card you don't commit as many men forward in the first place.

[BennyHarp]

I think that's more to do with the fact that Dublin blew people away with that approach.

But actually, when you think about it, the fouls I'm talking about up the field were specifically committed to allow the teammates to get back into the blanket defences, or at least into their defensive positions, and stopped quick counters.  Damned if you do, and damned if you don't I suppose.

Pre-Black card you could commit more to attack, foul if you lost it, and retreat.

Post Black card you don't commit as many men forward in the first place.

Yes, it's very difficult but I wouldn't want my star forward (Steven O'Neill for example who could be a reckless tackler) risking a black card tackling up the pitch. Much better to concede possession, drop everyone back, create a zonal defence and force a team into mistakes without having to put your own player at risk of a card. The other factor is running the ball from deep, and much as I whole heartedly agree that checking the runner off the ball is a foul we needed to stop, it's eradication has resulted in making carrying the ball and attacking in waves from deep, with the ball in hand, much more attractive. So the logical result is flood your defence and attack in waves of hand passing. Again, it brings us back to your point though, your damned if you do etc.