Living Geniuses...

[whyarerefssobad]

keano

[J70]

I don't know if I'd agree with insanity, at least in the case of the Wright Brothers. Maybe they were very driven, and if the particular direction they took hadn't worked, they could have been branded as misguided for "wasting" their time, but innovation and invention is all about experimentation. There were numerous others, both predecessors and contemporaries, who worked or were working on the same problems. If the Wright brothers hadn't done it, its fairly certain someone else would have within a short time.

That goes for some like Darwin too (and he is a personal hero of mine). Darwin is rightly regarded as the father of modern biology and one of the greatest scientists and most influential men ever. But the state of knowledge at his time had advanced to such a stage that the discovery of natural selection was only a matter of time. Indeed, Alfred Russel Wallace independently came up with the idea in the 1850s, and his correspondence with Darwin was what finally forced Darwin to bite the bullet and finally publish "On the Origin of Species" after sitting on his ideas for two decades. Because Darwin had by that time marshalled the evidence, fleshed out his ideas and addressed them from every possible angle and objection, he is justly regarded as the more important of the pair, but if Darwin hadn't existed, Wallace might today occupy the exalted (or debased, if you're a religious fundamentalist in a state of denial and self-deception) position in general perception that Darwin does, as opposed to just being regarded within the field of biology as one of its most important founders.

Maybe that just means that both Darwin and Wallace were geniuses though!    

[SeanSouth]

Nelson Mandella

Is that ex-terrorist Mandela?

[Square Ball]

the very same, why?

[SeanSouth]

the very same, why?

Just surprised he is in a thread of "genius"

[pintsofguinness]

You think Mandella was a terrorist?

[Square Ball]

Freedom fighter?

[SeanSouth]

You think Mandella was a terrorist?

"Think"? He was, in his pre-meeting Blair, Spice Girls faze. Its no big secret.

[pintsofguinness]

 
What should he have done in SA?  Lie down and accept minority rule?

Was Sean South a terrorist?

[SeanSouth]

What should he have done in SA?  Lie down and accept minority rule?

Was Sean South a terrorist?

Was the discussion about Mandela? The point i am trying to make is people have short memories, he also continued to canvass for better prison conditions for one of the Libyans responsible for blowing up 300 people in the Lockerbie disaster. Tellingly Amnesty International removed him from their "prisoners of conscience" group in 1985 due to his "previous"........

[Square Ball]

I am fully aware of Mandellas past and still think the man was a genius, ones mans meat and all that.

[pintsofguinness]

I have no issue with anything Mandella done in his life. Although I wouldn't put him in "genius" category there is no doubt he's a hero. 
I don't see what relevance his campaigning for better prison conditions has to do with anything.

Now, could you answer my questions.

What should he have done in SA?  Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?

I didn't know people considered him as a terrorist anymore, at least not sane people.  I'd be interested in your views.

[SeanSouth]

I have no issue with anything Mandella done in his life. Although I wouldn't put him in "genius" category there is no doubt he's a hero. 
I don't see what relevance his campaigning for better prison conditions has to do with anything.

Now, could you answer my questions.

What should he have done in SA?  Lie down and accept minority rule?
Was Sean South a terrorist?

I didn't know people considered him as a terrorist anymore, at least not sane people.  I'd be interested in your views.

Pints,first of all my username is in no way in reference to "Sean South of Garryowen", Mandela actually said in his book "Long Walk To Freedom" that he "signed off" terrorism after the ANC blew up 20 people in a car bomb in Church Street, he would have been released in 1985 if he renounced violence, he refused to. As for accepting minority rule, i cant really answer that question, there is no easy answer, but if blowing up innocent people got them what they wanted perhaps a certain kind of person could say the ends justified the means. I accept your opinion but i would never hold someone as a "hero" that murdered innocent people.

[J70]

What should he have done in SA?  Lie down and accept minority rule?

Was Sean South a terrorist?

Was the discussion about Mandela? The point i am trying to make is people have short memories, he also continued to canvass for better prison conditions for one of the Libyans responsible for blowing up 300 people in the Lockerbie disaster. Tellingly Amnesty International removed him from their "prisoners of conscience" group in 1985 due to his "previous"........

I thought the "prisoners of conscience" thing happened in the 60s and was merely Amnesty not making an exception for someone like Mandela who thought violence against the Apartheid system was justified? And is it not telling that a couple of years back AI made Mandela an "Ambassador of Conscience"?

Mandela was also instrumental in getting Libya to hand over the Lockerbie suspects. And what is wrong with advocating that an prisoner be held in humane conditions. If any person would know anything about that, its Nelson Mandela.

[pintsofguinness]

Pints,first of all my username is in no way in reference to "Sean South of Garryowen", Mandela actually said in his book "Long Walk To Freedom" that he "signed off" terrorism after the ANC blew up 20 people in a car bomb in Church Street, he would have been released in 1985 if he renounced violence, he refused to.

Why the hell would he?

As for accepting minority rule, i cant really answer that question, there is no easy answer, but if blowing up innocent people got them what they wanted perhaps a certain kind of person could say the ends justified the means. I accept your opinion but i would never hold someone as a "hero" that murdered innocent people.

There is no easy answer?  Why is there no easy answer?  It's democracy - don't you agree with democracy?
Innocent people have been killed in wars since time began and sometimes the ends do justify the means. 
I'll ask again, do you think the blacks in South Africa, and Mandella, should have accepted white minority rule?  Yes or No?