James McClean

[Franko]

What is the principle at stake here? That players should be allowed wind up away fans? Yes, in an ideal world you should be able to give as good as you get, but anyone who knows their Shakespeare knows you don't hold the mob to the same standard as individuals. The same applies to the apes who confronted him, and I think McClean would be entitled to feel aggrieved that they seem to have gotten away with their behaviour. But with respect to confronting the crowd, he needs to swallow his pride.

But you are equating what they have done here Deiseach.  McClean didn't 'give as good as he got', he was subjected to sectarian and racist abuse for most of the game.  He pumped his fist.

[ashman]

What is the principle at stake here? That players should be allowed wind up away fans? Yes, in an ideal world you should be able to give as good as you get, but anyone who knows their Shakespeare knows you don't hold the mob to the same standard as individuals. The same applies to the apes who confronted him, and I think McClean would be entitled to feel aggrieved that they seem to have gotten away with their behaviour. But with respect to confronting the crowd, he needs to swallow his pride.

But you are equating what they have done here Deiseach.  McClean didn't 'give as good as he got', he was subjected to sectarian and racist abuse for most of the game.  He pumped his fist.

Was the abuse racist or sectarian ?

[laoislad]

OK, so this is how I see it

McClean comes from an Irish city, which seen 13 of its citizens murdered by the British Army, to play football in Britain

Lad refuses to wear poppy while playing for Sunderland

Sunderland refuse to let the lad issue a letter to explain his actions

Player transferred to Wigan, and refuses to wear poppy while playing for them

Wigan allow McClean to issue a letter, which quite logically states that he supports what the British army did in WWI and WWII, but as it also represents the Northern conflict where 13 of its people were murdered by the army without anyone held accountable, then he can't support wearing it (understandable position)

Mclean plays against Sunderland, is taunted through the entire match by supporters using racial hate filled (anti Irish) chants

McClean reacts with a fist pump in the air

Two Sunderland players physically confront McClean......

And people on here think that McClean is in the wrong!!!!!!!

In my opinion, Sunderland should be walking on eggshells, as they have failed to control both supporters and two players, and McClean didn't physically confront any Sunderland players

So everyone is wrong bar McClean.
OK got it.

[AZOffaly]

Who is everyone? There's quite a few supporting him on this.

[deiseach]

Whatever the nature or scale of the abuse, the principle for a professional sportsman should be that you don't react in kind. If a fist pump is acceptable, why would flicking the bird or dropping your kecks be off limits?

[laoislad]

Who is everyone? There's quite a few supporting him on this.

I meant everyone else is to blame when McClean gets into trouble. 
None of it is his fault apparently.

[AZOffaly]

Because a fist pump is not an obscene gesture? I don't get the opprobrium directed at McLean on this one. He wouldn't be my favourite player, and I do think he probably draws a lot on himself (and I'm sure he knows this too but just doesn't care) but I think he reacted like a human being.

In this instance, he was getting dogs abuse all day, and just went down and gave a fist pump and celebrated in front of them. I'm sure it would have been easier for him if he hadn't, but I understand why he did and I can't really castigate him for it.

[AZOffaly]

Who is everyone? There's quite a few supporting him on this.

I meant everyone else is to blame when McClean gets into trouble. 
None of it is his fault apparently.

Sorry, I see what you mean. But again, the only reason he is in 'trouble' is because some people think he should have let the abuse wash off him. That's fierce easy to say when you're not getting the abuse.

[Clov]

The semantics of the gesture are obviously important here. Would people have players sanctioned for cupping their ear towards the opposition stands after scoring?

[Clov]

Regardless of what you think about the McClean gesture, the lack of willingness of the media/football commentariat to call out the 'mob' in this case is more worrying imo.

[AZOffaly]

Well, the timing too. It was after the game was over. So if he went down and cupped his ear to them after the game it probably would have been a 'big deal' as well.

[Orior]

Who is everyone? There's quite a few supporting him on this.

I meant everyone else is to blame when McClean gets into trouble. 
None of it is his fault apparently.

Sorry, I see what you mean. But again, the only reason he is in 'trouble' is because some people think he should have let the abuse wash off him. That's fierce easy to say when you're not getting the abuse.

My complements on the juxtaposition of fierce and easy.

[Orior]

Regardless of what you think about the McClean gesture, the lack of willingness of the media/football commentariat to call out the 'mob' in this case is more worrying imo.

The Belfast Telegraph uses every opportunity to abuse McClean with a headline, irrespective of the underlying story.

[laoislad]

Who is everyone? There's quite a few supporting him on this.

I meant everyone else is to blame when McClean gets into trouble. 
None of it is his fault apparently.

Sorry, I see what you mean. But again, the only reason he is in 'trouble' is because some people think he should have let the abuse wash off him. That's fierce easy to say when you're not getting the abuse.

I don't think what he done was all that bad as I said previously,if another player with less of a reputation done it there wouldn't be half the fuss if any at all.
I just think if you do have that sort of reputation you would be better of ignoring it and not responding. The abuse will just double for him now and it will have to affect his performance on the pitch.The media will hound him,some say he won't care but I don't believe that.
I doubt there will be too many clubs will be bothered with him if WBA get tired of him and decide he's more trouble than he's worth,he isn't exactly a Suarez is he.I'm sure they could do without him.
Sometimes actually I find(even on here) you wind a lot more people up by not saying anything at all. 

[deiseach]

I think there's a distinction between what might be called excited gestures after a goal and post-match reactions when you are entitled to expect a cooler head. Clov is right about the manner in which the media/football commentariat is treating it though. It's sinister how Danny Graham and Lee Cattermole have gotten away with behaviour which should be a straightforward case of loss of control. No questions for Fat Sam on the behaviour of his new charges. It looks like the fact it got mentioned in the referee's report means there is no further action, but shouldn't that mean the referee erred in not giving them some kind of card?