The IRISH RUGBY thread

[charlie stubbs]

gal in work selling x2 tickets 4 cusack if any1 interested mail me

[Celt_Man]

I can't wait for the Six Nations to begin



John Beattie


Another of my favourite rugby jokes - and these things happened in the olden days on Lions tours. Lions captain to referee: "Sir, who's put-in is it at the scrum?" Referee: "Ours."

But that's another diversion and this is your blog. Yeeeha, this time of year gives me one more delicious reason to live because the Six Nations tournament is here. Ever since I can remember, this time of year means watching the world's best tournament.

You have to understand that my generation stood on terraces accepting cans of beer from Welshmen who made it a week's trip to go to Murrayfield, or taking wine from smoky Frenchmen who smiled and laughed as their team kicked ours off the park.

But who is going to win? Come on, tell me who you think is going to win.

According to the International Rugby Board website, England has more than two million registered rugby players, France has a quarter of a million, Ireland 150,000, Italy 60,000, Wales 46,000, and Scotland 32,000. England have nearly four times as many rugby players as the rest of the Six Nations teams added together!

England first. If the team clicks, someone is going to get hammered. I don't understand why the current English side plays the ball so deep to the stand-off from broken play as they seem to go backwards. That said, I don't see a weakness in set piece, nor in attack.


My outsider's view is that skipper Steve Borthwick is a class act while, with Jonny Wilkinson and Martin Johnson around in albeit differing capacities, they have lots of experience. Plus, they have been training in Portugal, something Scotland, for instance, could never afford.

England are my tip to be joint winners this year, but only if they produce the badness that Johnson had as a player. And they have to overcome trips to Italy, Scotland and France.

Talking of France, you never know which team is going to turn up. However, they only have to travel to Scotland and Wales, so I think they will share the championship with England. The French have become predictable in how they play, though, with a search to take the ball right to each touchline copying English club rugby and Welsh international rugby.

You cannot overestimate the effect that Andy Robinson is having on Scotland. There are lots of options at wing - Evans, Lamonts and Daniellis - but some decisions to be made at back row and stand-off. England and France at home means it might just be mid-table.

I want Wales to do well. A real rugby country with a penchant for self-destruction and at times a lack of real grunt up front - but such a beautiful attacking game, using runners in wide channels. They have to go to Ireland and England.

Ireland have the experience of Brian O'Driscoll, the guile of Declan Kidney and enough gumption to beat anyone on their day - hardly a weak link - though they are starting to get a bit arrogant with their Grand Slam.

And the Italians? Rome is a horrible place to play. They even sold out the San Siro to play the All Blacks. One day Italian rugby will overtake Scottish and Welsh rugby, of that I am convinced. But not yet.

So it's England, France, Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy.

What do you think and what is your best Five or Six Nations memory?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/johnbeattie/2010/01/i_cant_wait_for_the_six_nation.html


Anyone else think that Ireland are getting arrogant after last year or like me do you think John is talking out of his hole?

[Onlooker]

I would not argue with him about the arrogant bit, but I find it hard to believe that there are 150,000 rugby players in Ireland and only 46,000 in Wales.  If those figures are correct, our record against Wales is very poor.

[GalwayBayBoy]

I would not argue with him about the arrogant bit, but I find it hard to believe that there are 150,000 rugby players in Ireland and only 46,000 in Wales.  If those figures are correct, our record against Wales is very poor.

Those figures are not correct. Numbers from 2007.

Ireland

    * Adult Male Players: 21740
    * Women Players: 1756
    * Number of Secondary Schools Players: 23586
    * Number of Youth Players: 12472
    * Number of Mini Rugby Players: 10967
    * Primary School: 32209
    * TOTAL PLAYERS: 100974

So a 100,000 players but that's including teens, kids, women, etc. That was three years ago so numbers are probably a bit different by now. On the IRB website the big difference seems to be in children playing the game. 60,600 children in Ireland and 10,000 in Wales. Not sure how reliable those numbers are to be honest. In fairness though Ireland have fairly consistently got the better of Wales for the past 30 years. It was before that really when the Welsh had the upper hand.

[Hoof Hearted]

what examples of arrogance were there ? I didnt think they were too bad to be honest

[Olaf]

Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!

Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace.

[/i]

::)You are having a laugh I take it.

As with all of Ireland's game's last year it will be a victory but a poor game.

[Onlooker]

what examples of arrogance were there ? I didnt think they were too bad to be honest

If you were living in Munster and had to listen to the Bandwagoners here talking about the "liginds" of Munster Rugby, you would know where I was coming from.

[Hoof Hearted]

i suppose, it's like me working in Tyrone !

[trileacman]

Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!

Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace.

[/i]

::)You are having a laugh I take it.

As with all of Ireland's game's last year it will be a victory but a poor game.

No I'm not. If you don't believe me wait for the match on Saturday or more likely the match in Paris to see him being exploited.

[Onlooker]

i suppose, it's like me working in Tyrone !

The big difference is that I am from Munster!!.

[ha ha derry]

Peter Stringer should start never mind not make the bench.

You obviously didn't see Stringer play in the A game at the weekend against the England Saxons. He was absolutely woeful.

Who was playing outside him ?

Paddy Wallace!

Have to say I'm no great fan but Kidney likes him and he is probably just shading it as the 3rd best Out Half (And Second best no. 12 Behind D'Arcy) we have at the minute ahead of Keatley and slightly ahead of Humphreys.

However I would expect Humphreys to push on this season and next to get himself in the squad for the World Cup with Paddy Wallace being a permanent backup at Centre.

As for Stringer well no he's just not up to it anymore. He was useful in his day but he's not getting any regular game time with Munster and he has fallen well behind O'Leary, Reddan and Boss in the pecking order. In saying that I've seen Reddan a couple of times recently and I haven't been that impressed. He needs to get his act together as on form he could overtake O'Leary and he will be vital to Leinster's hopes of retaining the Heineken!

I just don,t rate Reddan at all. O,Leary plays too much like an extra back row forward, which Ireland don,t need. If you look at Stringers performances for Ireland in last years 6 Nations, he is the most capable of the three of bringing the backs into the game. IMO.

[Olaf]

Couldn't really argue too much with that selection. If Sexton and Ferris are injured there's not much can be done.

I don't know much about McLaughlin but the consensus seems to be he is good enough to make the step up so fair play to him. Trimble in for Fitzgerald is maybe a contentious one but I saw him against Bath and though he was outstanding with his individual try being as good as I've witnessed this year!

I think we will struggle in the Scrum but that we will have too much for Italy. Against the other 4 teams I think we are weaker in the Scrum so we'll have to rely heavily on our Lineout and open play to get us through. The Grand Slam is definitely still on though and I'm looking forward to the Championship!

Trimble shouldn't play. It was a Horgan/Earls toss up with Earls possibly shading it. Trimbles try was against bath. He's a stupid defender as opposed to a bad one and an average attacker with little pace.

[/i]

::)You are having a laugh I take it.

As with all of Ireland's game's last year it will be a victory but a poor game.

No I'm not. If you don't believe me wait for the match on Saturday or more likely the match in Paris to see him being exploited.

I italicised your comments about Trimble being "an average attacker with little pace". It was this portion of your post that I was taking issue with. The evidence this season and at the back end of last quite clearly shows otherwise. He has been Ulster's main attacking threat in a back-line that has shown a fair degree of inventiveness.

As for defence neither Earls (who was shakey on the Lions tour and for Munster) or Horgan are any better in this aspect.

[INDIANA]

I would not argue with him about the arrogant bit, but I find it hard to believe that there are 150,000 rugby players in Ireland and only 46,000 in Wales.  If those figures are correct, our record against Wales is very poor.

Those figures are not correct. Numbers from 2007.

Ireland

    * Adult Male Players: 21740
    * Women Players: 1756
    * Number of Secondary Schools Players: 23586
    * Number of Youth Players: 12472
    * Number of Mini Rugby Players: 10967
    * Primary School: 32209
    * TOTAL PLAYERS: 100974

So a 100,000 players but that's including teens, kids, women, etc. That was three years ago so numbers are probably a bit different by now. On the IRB website the big difference seems to be in children playing the game. 60,600 children in Ireland and 10,000 in Wales. Not sure how reliable those numbers are to be honest. In fairness though Ireland have fairly consistently got the better of Wales for the past 30 years. It was before that really when the Welsh had the upper hand.

yep but there are 60,000 schools rugby players. 70% of them give up after school. Thats the problem rugby has here. Its become such a contact game that most lads unless you're going to be  apro- just pack it in altogether.

[thewobbler]

Trimble will do fine. His offloading problems mean he won't play international centre again (barring an injury crisis), but he has the line-breaking ability and finishing prowess to be a useful wing at any level. I don't buy this theory that he is defensively weak. As well as being an imposing big lump of a lad, the lessons learned from his formative years in the middle make him a bit more solid in tackle and flexible in his technique than an out-an-out winger.

Good on Deccie with the team selection all round. It shows that players can play their way into his team from the wilderness. Plenty of useful options on the bench too.


As for the 6N overall, I've a feeling that 3 wins with a good scoring difference might take the title. England and France both have the backs to cause a rout, Scotland and Italy both have the packs to keep things respectable, while Wales and Ireland probably have the better balanced sides. Home advantage should prove crucial all round.

[Bord na Mona man]

I just don,t rate Reddan at all. O,Leary plays too much like an extra back row forward, which Ireland don,t need. If you look at Stringers performances for Ireland in last years 6 Nations, he is the most capable of the three of bringing the backs into the game. IMO.

Stringer is very predictable to play against though. He will invariably fling the pass, unless a gap the width of the Shannon opens up. Opposition defenders can generally start drifting towards the next player.

At least O'Leary can make breaks and play a more ball-in-hand running game, as well as being physical.
That said O'Leary needs to cuts down on his tendency to hit meaningless half hit kicks straight to the opposition.
If you plan on giving the ball away, at least stick it behind players and gain territory.