"Kevin McStay has made the point ....that provincial football championships are on borrowed time and no longer command sufficient interest, which is why broadcasters are uniformly opting to cover the round-robin hurling championships during the early part of the season."
Leinster definitely the ugly sister when it comes to TV coverage
LEINSTER SHC ROUND-ROBIN
Sat May 11th – Rd 1: Kilkenny v Dublin, Nowlan Park (7.0, Sky Sports)
Sun May 12th – Rd 1: Galway v Carlow, Pearse Stadium (3.0)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Carlow v Kilkenny, Dr Cullen Park (3.0)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Dublin v Wexford, Parnell Park (3.0)
Sat May 26th – Rd 3: Galway v Wexford, Pearse Stadium (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 2nd – Rd 3: Carlow v Dublin, Dr Cullen Park (3.0)
Sat Jun 8th – Rd 4: Wexford v Carlow, Wexford Park (7.0)
Sun Jun 9th – Rd 4: Kilkenny v Galway, Nowlan Park (2.0, RTÉ)
Sat Jun 15th – Rd 5: Dublin v Galway, Parnell Park (7.0)
Sat Jun 15th – Rd 5: Wexford v Kilkenny, Wexford Park (7.0)
Sun Jun 30th – Final: Croke Park
MUNSTER SHC ROUND-ROBIN
Sun May 12th – Rd 1: Waterford v Clare, Walsh Park (2.0, RTÉ)
Sun May 12th – Rd 1: Cork v Tipperary, Páirc Uí Chaoimh (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Tipperary v Waterford, Semple Stadium (2.0, RTÉ)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Limerick v Cork, Gaelic Grounds (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 2nd – Rd 3: Waterford v Limerick, Gaelic Grounds (2.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 2nd – Rd 3: Clare v Tipperary, Cusack Park (2.0, RTÉ)
Sat Jun 8th – Rd 4: Cork v Waterford, Páirc Uí Chaoimh (7.0, Sky Sports)
Sun Jun 9th – Rd 4: Limerick v Clare, Gaelic Grounds (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 16th –Rd 5: Tipperary v Limerick, Semple Stadium (2.0)
Sun Jun 16th – Rd 5: Clare v Cork, Cusack Park (2.0)
Sun Jun 30th – Final:
Dubs have a bit of a chance of giving Kilkenny a scare with the injuries.
Galway to have too much for Carlow, but Carlow will give it their all, need to keep 15 on the field though.
It's really hard to call any game in Munster and I think Waterford will take the win at home to Clare but Cork/Tipp could go either way. Neither had a good league but this is championship.
Here goes my fiver's worth:
LEINSTER SHC ROUND-ROBIN
Hard to call but anyway...
Sat May 11th – Rd 1: Kilkenny v Dublin, Nowlan Park (7.0, Sky Sports)
Sun May 12th – Rd 1: Galway v Carlow, Pearse Stadium (3.0)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Carlow v Kilkenny, Dr Cullen Park (3.0)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Dublin v Wexford, Parnell Park (3.0)
Sat May 26th – Rd 3: Galway v Wexford, Pearse Stadium (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 2nd – Rd 3: Carlow v Dublin, Dr Cullen Park (3.0)
Sat Jun 8th – Rd 4: Wexford v Carlow, Wexford Park (7.0)
Sun Jun 9th – Rd 4: Kilkenny v Galway, Nowlan Park (2.0, RTÉ)
Sat Jun 15th – Rd 5: Dublin v Galway, Parnell Park (7.0)
Sat Jun 15th – Rd 5: Wexford v Kilkenny, Wexford Park (7.0)
Sun Jun 30th – Final: Croke Park
MUNSTER SHC ROUND-ROBIN
Hmmm...
A lot harder to call.
Sun May 12th – Rd 1: Waterford v Clare, Walsh Park (2.0, RTÉ)
Sun May 12th – Rd 1: Cork v Tipperary, Páirc Uí Chaoimh (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Tipperary v Waterford, Semple Stadium (2.0, RTÉ)
Sun May 19th – Rd 2: Limerick v Cork, Gaelic Grounds (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 2nd – Rd 3: Waterford v Limerick, Gaelic Grounds (2.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 2nd – Rd 3: Clare v Tipperary, Cusack Park (2.0, RTÉ)
Sat Jun 8th – Rd 4: Cork v Waterford, Páirc Uí Chaoimh (7.0, Sky Sports)
Sun Jun 9th – Rd 4: Limerick v Clare, Gaelic Grounds (4.0, RTÉ)
Sun Jun 16th –Rd 5: Tipperary v Limerick, Semple Stadium (2.0)
Sun Jun 16th – Rd 5: Clare v Cork, Cusack Park (2.0)
Sun Jun 30th – Final:
MrJackieTee is back
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-just-when-they-look-to-be-coming-dublin-freeze-and-flatter-to-deceive-1.3886531
Jackie Tyrrell: Just when they look to be coming, Dublin freeze and flatter to deceive
The parallels with the 2012 Leinster fixture between these two teams is apparent
Carton House, Maynooth, Co Kildare. That stunning drive from the entrance gate up to the 18th century Manor House. Passing sun-drenched golfers as they shoot the breeze. Down over a lovely hump-back bridge, around the bend with a beautiful view out in front of you as the sun bounces off the roof of the boat house. A peaceful and stunning setting.
Yeah. Good luck with that, lads. I'm three years retired this year and I haven't set foot in the place and I have no plans to. Carton House to me always meant hell. It was where Kilkenny went for a pre-championship training camp and it wasn't about spa treatments or nice robes or comfy slippers.
We went there to work and that meant going to war with each other. I have a clear memory of our trip there in 2012, a couple of weeks out from playing Dublin in Portlaoise in the Leinster semi-final.
On the Tuesday night, the last thing Brian Cody said at training was, "Kilkenny jerseys are up for grabs". Well, maybe it wasn't exactly the last thing but it was the last thing any of us took in. By Friday, it was the only thing that mattered.
Arriving at Carton House, some lads had one hand on a jersey, others had full possession. I was barely hanging onto mine with my fingertips. I knew the weekend was going to be torture but that suited me. It was going to be ridiculously hot – if the weather didn't make it that way, the intensity of the competition between us would. I needed that torture in order to be ready physically and mentally for Dublin.
There are plenty of parallels between the build-up to that game and the meeting of Dublin and Kilkenny in Nowlan Park this weekend. We were All-Ireland champions at the time and probably should have been heavy enough favourites.
But this was Anthony Daly's Dublin and they were on the rise, having beaten us in the league final in 2011. Plenty of people were giving them a right chance. If ever they were going to turn the tide against us in the championship, this was going to be it.
I get a real sense of that this week as well. Kilkenny are obviously lower in the pecking order now than they were then but Dublin are coming from a low enough base too. Kilkenny are at home so they're favourites but with all the injuries, they look vulnerable. It's a huge game for both of them, easily as crucial to the rest of their summer as that game between us in 2012 was.
We lined that Portlaoise game up from a long way out. We went to Carton House ready to put in an animal weekend to get ready for it. You knew you'd be training twice and playing a match on the Saturday and you had to be prepared to kill for the jersey. Kill in a good way if such a thing exists – kill yourself in effort, kill the player you're marking with work-rate, kill the other team you play in the match on the Saturday with an unbreakable will and desire to win.
That game would be savage, nobody giving an inch because a strong performance could spring you into the team. Likewise, a sub-par performance and you could be off it, so Carton House could be a graveyard for players. Most of the time, the hurling wouldn't flow but that's when you knew it was really, really good.
Hungry packs
Players couldn't get away from each other. Backs couldn't get out past a wall formed by a hungry packs of forwards. They'd turn one way and get nailed, turn another and get nailed again. The ball was knocked out of their hand and the fight was on.
I often felt forwards got more of a kick out of turning backs over in those games than actually getting scores. I know Brian loved when it happened. Likewise when a forward got a ball, backs would swarm all over him like a rash, take the ball from him. Turnovers were as regular as the doctor running onto the pitch to treat a player – one every minute. But the game never stopped. Get another person in and play on. We loved it.
On top of everything, I shared a room with my clubmate Eoin Larkin. Eoin had his nose broken in a training match before and so he snored like a roaring dinosaur every minute of the night. Meaning I didn't sleep the best either. I wonder who broke his nose? Karma!
All inter-county teams would have rolled out training weekends these past few weeks in the lead-in to championship. In all honesty, I feel they're even more important now than when I was playing. In the old system, you went into that first match with all guns blazing but if it didn't work out for you, you knew you had a few weeks in your back pocket to analyse, reset and go again.
Dublin's Eoghan O'Donnell competes with Galway's Jason Flynn at Pearse Stadium. Dublin had a good league, beating both Waterford and Tipperary and putting it up to Limerick for long spells in the semi-final. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho Dublin's Eoghan O'Donnell competes with Galway's Jason Flynn at Pearse Stadium. Dublin had a good league, beating both Waterford and Tipperary and putting it up to Limerick for long spells in the semi-final. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
You don't have that any more. A pre-championship training camp is the last chance management have to get some meaningful intense work done. It's their last chance to try different players in different positions, to work extensively on different tactics and shapes.
Most of all, it's the last time they will get to raise training to a really intense level, to create a red-hot environment that challenges players. Can your skill level stand up to that intensity? Is your decision-making sound when everything is going a million miles an hour? There won't be a single training session during the round robin weeks that will be cranked up this high. Do it now or forever hold your peace.
Back in 2012, that weekend in Carton House got us completely primed and ready for Dublin and we ended up beating them well. TJ Reid got a goal in the first half and we played with huge intensity and forced them into a lot of mistakes which we were able to capitalise from.
One thing I remember from late on in that game was Dotsy O'Callaghan getting possession and Mick Fennelly and I bottling him up and turning him over and getting a free. We celebrated that free like it had sealed the All-Ireland, even though we were 12 or 13 points up at the time. That was the mindset we were in on the day, fuelled by the work we had put into the build-up.
Tentative nod
That's partly why I give Kilkenny a tentative nod this weekend. I really think there is very little between the sides but I know what Brian's approach to this time of year is and I just think that's a massive thing in Kilkenny's favour.
They will need every bit of it, though. Momentum and belief been building around this Dublin team through a really strong league campaign. They overturned Tipperary and then, in a really contrasting game tactically, they put Limerick to the pin of their collar for long spells in the league semi-final.
Dublin arrive in Nowlan Park with a lot of narrative and expectation about them being dark horses for a sustained run in the championship – and rightly so. In Matty Kenny, they have a really astute manager who understands the game deeply, just like Anthony Daly in 2012.
"Kilkenny may well be vulnerable here, no doubt about it
My worry for them is that so far, they are quite similar to that 2012 team in that they haven't proved yet that they're up to handling expectation. In fairness to them, they've had very limited opportunities to show it yet but the question stands. Go back to the biggest results for the Daly-era teams – they almost always came when they were underdogs and when they'd been written off.
It's been a problem for Dublin teams all down the years. Just when they look to be coming with a bit of momentum and they're fancied to take down one of the bigger teams, they freeze and flatter to deceive. If Matty Kenny is going to bring them places, that has to change. And this would be a perfect time to get started.
Kilkenny may well be vulnerable here, no doubt about it. The league was a mixed bag and the team has been hammered by injuries. Take the backbone positions of the team – goalkeeper, full-back, centre-back, midfield (x2), centre-forward, full-forward. Seven key positions and Kilkenny are missing four of them. No Eoin Murphy, no Conor Delaney or Joey Holden, no Cillian Buckley, no James Maher. Richie Hogan is a doubt as well.
Contrast that with Dublin who in Eoghan O'Donnell, Sean Moran and Danny Sutcliffe have strengthened their spine and built their team around it. They are tactically fluid and have the comfort of transitioning from conventional shape to playing Moran as an extra defender.
Cuala's success was built on his comfort in that role and Dublin have followed suit. That will be needed throughout the championship if they need to stem the tide in certain periods of a game, or if the opposition get on top in the middle third.
The last time the Dubs came to Kilkenny for championship was for a football game in 2016 against Laois. They took over the city and Nowlan Park and there was a festival carnival around Kilkenny that day. Hopefully we get the same kind of buzz but I have a feeling the scoreline might be a little tighter this time round.
No wonder they were flaked out for the Leinster final in 2012.
An apocryphal story from the movies; for his key teeth-pulling scene in Marathon Man, Dustin Hoffman supposedly stayed up all night to 'get in character'. Co-star Laurence Olivier suggested to him to 'try acting, it's so much easier'.
Try hurling Jackie, it's so much easier!
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2019, 12:28:43 PM
No wonder they were flaked out for the Leinster final in 2012.
An apocryphal story from the movies; for his key teeth-pulling scene in Marathon Man, Dustin Hoffman supposedly stayed up all night to 'get in character'. Co-star Laurence Olivier suggested to him to 'try acting, it's so much easier'.
Try hurling Jackie, it's so much easier!
I don't think a man with a bucket load of AI medals, National League medals is going to be taking lessons from you or I on what it takes to win on a hurling field.
Kilkenny played on the edge and beyond and their success is as much about that as the stylishness of Henry and Co up the field.
furthering the 'myth' of kilkenny training games
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 10, 2019, 02:37:13 PM
furthering the 'myth' of kilkenny training games
A myth that had manys a team beaten before they lined out against them.
A bit like Ger Lock and the Clare lads running up the sides of mountains for hours on end in the 90's.
It had the desired effect of letting the opposition know you were not going to be out run/physically intimidated.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2019, 02:41:45 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 10, 2019, 02:37:13 PM
furthering the 'myth' of kilkenny training games
A myth that had manys a team beaten before they lined out against them.
A bit like Ger Lock and the Clare lads running up the sides of mountains for hours on end in the 90's.
It had the desired effect of letting the opposition know you were not going to be out run/physically intimidated.
But true - all great teams/athletes train harder than the games they play in. That's why they will.
https://youtu.be/3vOeMh6M1w8
Strong second half for KK after going 4 behind in the first half.
Strange carry on with the Dublin selector intercepting a kk pass. There'll be a fine to pay for that.
Quote from: thejuice on May 12, 2019, 12:17:15 AM
Strange carry on with the Dublin selector intercepting a kk pass. There'll be a fine to pay for that.
Or what about stopping all these muppets running out onto the pitch.? At times there could be 3 ot 4 'maor foirne' out on pitch.
Gaa should bring in a directive that nobody on pitch except medical staff when injury occurs.
Quote from: thejuice on May 12, 2019, 12:17:15 AM
Strange carry on with the Dublin selector intercepting a kk pass. There'll be a fine to pay for that.
Why wasn't he sent to the Stand on the day?
More anything goes from the hurling fraternity!!
You wouldn't get away with that during a club hurling game
Officials seem afraid to upset county managers
Clare 6 ahead at HT in Ennis
Tipp are back
Still think their backs hit too many hail mary balls up the field
A good win today for Clare in Waterford. Clare were in control for most of the game but Waterford came on strong in the end and were close to stealing it.
Tip looked strong in taking care of Cork in pairc ui caoimh today. Cork and Waterford have it all to do now after losing their home games.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 12, 2019, 05:51:08 PM
Tipp are back
Still think their backs hit too many hail mary balls up the field
In fairness not as many. The second goal was a case in point. Paudie trundled out the field and was winding up for the Hail Mary but you could nearly see him catching himself. Instead he played a sensible pass 50 yards into bubbles who squared for John McGrath. There were a fair few instances of that.
How was Walter not shown a red card?
Kilkenny upped the physicality
Some of the hurling is now lawless and referees don't bother blowing the whistle
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 12, 2019, 10:20:29 PM
How was Walter not shown a red card?
Kilkenny upped the physicality
Some of the hurling is now lawless and referees don't bother blowing the whistle
Tis a many game (c) Eddie Keher, Kilkenny.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/more-questions-than-answers-as-galway-go-again-1.3886380
More questions than answers as Galway go again
Beaten finalists will embark on All-Ireland campaign without Joe Canning
Sat, May 11, 2019, 06:00
Keith Duggan
Galway players reflect at the end of last season's All-Ireland defeat to Limerick. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho
On a fresh day in February, Dublin came to Salthill for the stiffest test of their league campaign. What unfolded didn't surprise Mattie Kenny.
"That is the standard we have to get to," he said in the corridors within Pearse Stadium after watching Galway post 1-20 and cruise past Dublin, who were stuck on 1-11 at the end. It was formidable fare from Galway who have thrived in the unfashionable neighbourhood of Division 1B: just four wides over the afternoon, an eye-catching show from Cathal Mannion at midfield and a powerful, bustling forward performance from Seán Bleahene.
"Galway are All-Ireland champions from last year and they are the best side in Ireland," Kenny continued, before checking himself as if remembering what had happened in September. "If not, then one of the top two sides."
Dublin absorbed the lessons fast and put together an impressive league, topping the division. Galway was their sole defeat. They are such popular dark horses for a big championship say that they are not really dark horses at all. But the forecasts for Galway's summer would puzzle even the most astute meteorologists. Kenny's assessment remains correct: they are among the top two sides in Ireland. In flow, they look unbeatable. But will they achieve that flow?
In February, Johnny Glynn was in New York. He is back. Joseph Cooney was in Australia then. He is back and thundered into the local championship with Sarsfields. Micheál Donoghue used the league to give as many players as many opportunities as he could.
Epic defence
If Galway learned anything over the course of an epic defence of their All-Ireland last summer, it's that they were stretched for depth at the crucial part of the season. It was a useful spring, but if an underwhelming semi-final exit against Waterford was a minor concern then the significant injury suffered by Joe Canning in that match leaves several question marks hovering over the squad.
Anyone who enjoys Irish sport will hope that the Portumna man, 30 years old now, will regain fitness in time to play a part in this championship. But the imprecise length of his recovery time complicates the various challenges facing Galway as they attempt to return to the All-Ireland final for the third successive year.
Do Galway they hang their hat on Johnny Glynn's aerial threat?
Who becomes the figurehead of the team in Canning's absence? Can they return to the defensive pack-mentality of 2017? Can they achieve such consistency for a third successive year? Do they hang their hat on Glynn's aerial threat?
In 2017, Galway won the All-Ireland scoring just two goals along the way; last summer they hit 12. But just four of those came at the pinnacle of the championship - two in two games in the semi-final against Clare and two in that riveting eight minutes of injury-time against Limerick.
It was goals that propelled the Treaty county to the title: three against Cork in the semi-final and another three that kept Galway chasing throughout that final. What kind of goal threat will Galway present this summer?
These are among the challenges facing the team ahead of their opening game in Salthill against Carlow on Sunday afternoon.
"Well, the first major challenge is to play and perform to their full potential," says former All-Ireland winner and coach Noel Lane.
High intensity
"To do that, training must have a very high intensity by all involved. Injuries must be managed. We all know Joe has had a serious injury and is looking at a 14 to 16 week break. And I think that for Galway's management challenge that the panel accepts that and raises their game and gets on with it.
"Even the management of it by Joe, who is doing everything he can to regain fitness and all of that and to remain mentally tough and hope that maybe later in the year that he will be able to contribute something. But in the meantime it's important that other players accept this and move on and step up to the plate. They are going to have to achieve a high physical and mental strength because small margins in those areas - skill levels, physical strength - will be critical."
The 2018 final will be remembered as a thriller because of those nail-biting eight minutes of added time. The nerve-wracking end has disguised how fiercely Galway had to chase the game: 1-15 to 0-10 down after 50 minutes, 2-15 to 0-13 down after 62 minutes; 3-15 to 0-16 down after 71 minutes.
Micheal Donoghue and selector Noel Larkin at the end of the last year's final. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho
That they managed to reduce the final score to a point was a combination of their relentless belief and a young Limerick team trying to land the county's first All-Ireland since 1973. If the Galway hurling fraternity was disappointed after the day, it felt different to previous losses.
"The euphoria of winning the thing in 2017 meant that supporters in general knew Galway hadn't become a bad team overnight," Lane points out. "A few things didn't go right. And the other thing that contributed to there not being much criticism is the fact that it was Limerick, who were superb last year and great champions. They punished mistakes Galway made severely. So the disappointment was huge but there was a sense that this team could come back."
Lane played on the last Galway team to appear in three consecutive finals; Galway won two of four appearances between 1985 and 1988. Galway appeared in three consecutive finals on three other occasions: 1979-81 and 1923-25.
Big year
"That was a very good team but the championship wasn't as competitive then so it's not comparing like with like," he says of the 1980s side. "The whole game- the mental approach and preparation and the science of the game has moved to a different level."
When Canning appeared at a launch last week, he was inevitably asked about when he would return to maroon colours and was necessarily ambivalent in his replies. The truth is that he doesn't know. The presumption that Galway would just automatically appear in the All-Ireland quarter final series, scheduled for July 13/14th, left him wary. "How do we know if we're even going to get out of Leinster?" he asked. "I'm not even thinking about that."
His reticence is understandable. But there is a good reason why the Galway hurling championship is suspended indefinitely. A big year beckons. Their All-Ireland quest begins with the low-altitude visit of Carlow, who achieved a famous 0-20 apiece draw against Galway in the league.
After that, the pace will quicken quickly. Everyone knows the class and power within this Galway squad. How all of that potency is unleashed during Canning's indefinite absence will be fascinating to observe through the furious early stages of the championship.
Great game in O'Connor Park on Saturday evening. It's a sad state of affairs when there wasn't even 2 minutes of highlights on the Sunday game.
Was there 30 seconds?
I don't recall seeing anything at all. Maybe TG4 will have something this evening.
Did I miss it - or was it on before the Munster minor football between Clare and Tipperary?! Puh.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-waterford-s-summer-in-danger-of-being-over-before-it-starts-1.3894745
Jackie Tyrrell: Waterford's summer in danger of being over before it starts
Like Clare, Tipperary's pace and movement could cause major problems for Déise men
about 4 hours ago
Jackie Tyrrell
I was sitting in the RTÉ studio in Páirc Uí Chaoimh on Sunday stuffing my face with Jelly Tots and watching Clare play Waterford on the screen in front of us. I asked myself the question – which of those two forward lines would I prefer to be playing against as a defender?
Now, maybe it was the sugar in the Jelly Tots that was making me energetic and ballsy in the first place – I'm 37 next month so the correct answer is obviously neither of them, because I'm well past it. But if I really had to, part of me still had a notion I could survive somehow on some of the Waterford forwards.
Even if that's nonsense, it's not a good sign for the Waterford attack that the thought would enter my head. There was just such a huge contrast between their forward division and Clare's that it set me thinking. Walsh Park is one of the tightest pitches in the country and still Clare were able to create so much space in so many different areas.
Clare defenders coming out with the ball always had options. Their shape and set-up has evolved to suit their players. They have pace and movement and there was method and electricity every time the ball entered that half of the field. All the Jelly Tots in the world wouldn't have made me think I could survive in that scenario.
You can't fault the full back for losing Conlon – he did the right thing, blocking the point and fighting for the ball
By comparison, when I looked at the Waterford attack, I saw patterns of movement and ball delivery that seemed manageable for opposition defenders. Shane and Stephen Bennett were making predictable runs a lot of the time – out towards the sideline to balls that were sent diagonally away from goal. That's not a bad option on the face of it but if you keep repeating it, a top intercounty defender is going to come alive to it very quickly.
Pauric Mahony spent most of his day tracking David Fitzgerald's runs back into his own half. Mikey Kearney never got on top in his duel with Jack Browne, Peter Hogan didn't feature at all really. Outside of Austin Gleeson, they had no real threat or presence.
When Maurice Shanahan came on, he was dynamic and caused problems in the air. He caught one ball and got fouled for a 20-metre free. He caught another and scored a point of his own. That at least was asking a different question of the Clare defenders, but when it comes right down to it, Maurice didn't touch the ball until the 70th minute when Waterford were five points down. It was very comfortable for the Clare defence up to then.
Go back to the Waterford defence and ask them what sort of afternoon they had and comfortable wouldn't come into it. They were constantly being moved around and each Clare player presented them with a different problem.
Podge Collins dropped deep when Clare didn't have the ball but bombed back up to support when they had. John Conlon roamed from the square to the wing for puck-outs but made sure he was inside as a target man the rest of the time. Shane O'Donnell played everywhere and couldn't be harnessed. The sum total of all that movement was confusion – just look at Conlon's goal for the perfect example of that.
Donal Tuohy's puck-out landed down on the edge of the Waterford D and there was a scrap for possession with four Clare forwards converging on the scene – Conlon, Podge, O'Donnell and Peter Duggan. Each of them brought their man with them and Tadhg de Búrca got in around it too, meaning that when the ball hit the ground, nine players were bunched about 25 metres from goal halfway between the D and the sideline.
O'Donnell had started as the closest player to the Waterford goal but he sprinted towards the scene, followed closely by Noel Connors. What this all meant was that a huge acre of space opened up in front of the Waterford posts. Because O'Donnell is so sharp at getting the ball into his hand, he was the one who came out of the bunch with it and straight away, Conlon sprinted into the open space.
Waterford nearly got away with it too because unusually for him, O'Donnell didn't look up to see was there a goal on and instead went for his own point. If he'd scored it, I'd say Conlon would have had a few words for him. But what actually happened was that Conor Prunty pulled off a great block and as O'Donnell went to pick up the loose ball, Prunty chased him for it.
John Conlon of Clare challenges for possession with Waterford's Conor Prunty during the Munster SHC round-robin game at Walsh Park. Photograph: Ryan Byrne/Inpho
You can't fault the full back for losing Conlon – he did the right thing, blocking the point and fighting for the ball. Waterford's problem was that three other defenders all went chasing the ball too and nobody copped that if Prunty was battling with O'Donnell, then Conlon must be loose somewhere.
It was Conlon's speed of thought and rapid movement that killed them, along with O'Donnell's ability to get the ball into his hand in a tight space. It looked like a bad goal to give away because Conlon found himself in so much space. But the constant movement of the Clare forward line is designed to create that space. The question for Waterford is what are they doing to create similar space up the other end?
I measure a forward's movement very simply – when a defender looks up as he comes out with the ball, the forward should have his mind made up for him where to deliver it. Indecision is a no-no in a high-intensity championship game so a good forward takes the possibility of indecision out of his team-mate's mind. His first job is to make the out ball obvious.
This is a two-stage process. First you have to make the space, then you have to time your run into it. Hold your run, leave the space open, make two, three or four dummy runs laterally to create separation and then explode into the space at the moment the man in possession strikes the ball.
As a defender, you can track and shadow a forward's movement comfortably enough for up to five or six seconds. After that, it starts to become increasingly difficult. The combination of the physical output and the mental focus needed to keep an eye both on your man and on where the ball is all adds up. The really good forwards know this and they almost try to wear you out by running at around 75 per cent of their max pace for those five or six seconds.
Waterford need to create more and better space with intelligent runs and find some variation
As you fatigue trying to shadow them, they then lean into you at the moment of breakaway. In the NFL, you see wide receivers getting penalised for pushing off their defenders as they go to catch the ball – in hurling, the poor corner back has no such luck. The really good forwards use you as leverage and push away from you, getting into a full sprint out to the ball.
The good ones might only need one or two dummy runs. If you're at a game over the coming weeks, watch how Aaron Gillane, Shane O'Donnell or Séamus Callanan do it. They are the market leaders in this field. All they need is a yard or two. Once they've created space and separation, you know you're in trouble because these lads don't mis-control the ball. By that stage, you're just hoping for the best.
Watching that game on Sunday, I counted at least four instances in the first half alone where Pat O'Connor and David McInerney won that foot race for possession with the two Bennetts. But if their movement had been dynamic enough, it wouldn't have come down to a foot race. The hard running comes before the ball is pucked in.
Waterford's other problem was that they didn't have enough variety. The Clare defenders had so many options when they looked up. They could pop it short to Tony Kelly in a midfield pocket of space. They could go long and high to Conlon in the square or Duggan down the wing. They could puck it any way possible to O'Donnell and he'd make something of it. Or they could run it through the lines with Kelly, Fitzgerald and Colm Galvin all a factor.
All that said, you have to admire Waterford for staying in it. Even if the scoreboard flattered them in the end, they were never dead in the game and there's a lot to be said for that.
When you dig down into the numbers and stats, you see that Waterford were efficient with the ball. They had 66 possessions, 36 shots created, 22 scores. They scored eight points from frees and only had eight wides, two of them from sideline balls. Those are actually decent enough performance numbers, all in all.
Where they fell down was in penetration and possession inside in the danger zone beyond the 20-metre line. Stephen Bennett had a glorious chance of a goal in the first half but couldn't control the ball. Over the course of the afternoon, they didn't get a score inside the Clare 20-metre line. That's not going to cut it from here on out.
Definitely not this weekend in Thurles. They're heading to play Tipperary who are buoyant and in a mean mood and if they don't get a result, the year could be over for them. Tipperary scored 2-28 on Sunday, 2-24 from play. Everyone from number five to 15 got on the scoresheet. More importantly, their inside line John McGrath, Callanan and Jason Forde scored 2-10 (2-7 from play).
Waterford have a huge job ahead of them. They will need more from Jamie Barron and De Burca to try curtail this Tipperary attack but more importantly, they will need a serious evolution in their forward division. I don't know if you can do that in the space of a week but they're going to have to find something.
They need to create more and better space with intelligent runs and find some variation. Maybe Brick Walsh comes in, maybe Maurice starts – something to add size and aerial prowess. One way or the other, what they scored last Sunday in Walsh Park isn't going to get it done. Not against Tipperary in this sort of free-scoring form.
Offaly in danger of being relegated from Joe McDonagh cup!
I think Kerry will be relegated.
The amount of comments I've seen online saying Offaly have hit a new low. Westmeath beat them by 14 points in championship in 2016. Mind you, comments weren't from Offaly people.
Well if you believe they are motoring along rightly then grand. Outside looking in that's two defeats in a row, granted Kerry haven't been as good as last season but that match will be tough in Kerry.
Things not looking good for Waterford. Offaly have been a long way off past glories for at least this decade. Antrim game a big test for them. Should have enough for Kerry. (Although bar 89 the buggers usually beat Antrim by a bit but hopefully not this year)
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2019, 02:29:28 PM
Things not looking good for Waterford. Offaly have been a long way off past glories for at least this decade. Antrim game a big test for them. Should have enough for Kerry. (Although bar 89 the buggers usually beat Antrim by a bit but hopefully not this year)
I'd say Offaly and Antrim at similar level, was listening to the games on the radio yesterday and the co commentator was an Offaly man, he was fuming
Yeah it will be interesting to see. Still think they might be a bit ahead of Antrim but hope I am wrong.
Tipps usual lack of concentration showing again! How can they not just put the foot down and pull away?
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2019, 02:29:28 PM
Things not looking good for Waterford. Offaly have been a long way off past glories for at least this decade. Antrim game a big test for them. Should have enough for Kerry. (Although bar 89 the buggers usually beat Antrim by a bit but hopefully not this year)
Tipp look very strong so far
Cork and Waterford have a load of work to do
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2019, 03:06:09 PM
Tipps usual lack of concentration showing again! How can they not just put the foot down and pull away?
Pulled away towards the end.
Cork are unrecognisable compared to last week.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2019, 02:39:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2019, 02:29:28 PM
Things not looking good for Waterford. Offaly have been a long way off past glories for at least this decade. Antrim game a big test for them. Should have enough for Kerry. (Although bar 89 the buggers usually beat Antrim by a bit but hopefully not this year)
I'd say Offaly and Antrim at similar level, was listening to the games on the radio yesterday and the co commentator was an Offaly man, he was fuming
I think Jim Troy was the co-commentator and indeed he was fuming.
He summed up Westmeath's second goal something like this - "
he walked in from 50 yards and could have had tay on the way".
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on May 19, 2019, 05:51:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2019, 02:39:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2019, 02:29:28 PM
Things not looking good for Waterford. Offaly have been a long way off past glories for at least this decade. Antrim game a big test for them. Should have enough for Kerry. (Although bar 89 the buggers usually beat Antrim by a bit but hopefully not this year)
I'd say Offaly and Antrim at similar level, was listening to the games on the radio yesterday and the co commentator was an Offaly man, he was fuming
I think Jim Troy was the co-commentator and indeed he was fuming.
He summed up Westmeath's second goal something like this - "he walked in from 50 yards and could have had tay on the way".
Jim Troy would most certainly not be of the kind to do any media work. Plus, you'd hardly understand him, with his mumbling voice.
'Twas Joe Troy, a local part time journalist, fuel and oil salesman and all round hack.
https://soundcloud.com/midlandssport/offaly-battling-relegation-in-joe-mcdonagh-cup
Quote from: LooseCannon on May 19, 2019, 06:26:28 PM
https://soundcloud.com/midlandssport/offaly-battling-relegation-in-joe-mcdonagh-cup
That is a pretty comprehensive analysis of a team in crisis
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2019, 07:50:57 AM
Quote from: LooseCannon on May 19, 2019, 06:26:28 PM
https://soundcloud.com/midlandssport/offaly-battling-relegation-in-joe-mcdonagh-cup
That is a pretty comprehensive analysis of a team in crisis
And it's without properly delving into the deeper problems, and their sources.
There is a chance they could win the two remaining games though. I'd say it's a decent enough chance. I hope they lose one of them though ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2019, 02:39:08 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 19, 2019, 02:29:28 PM
Things not looking good for Waterford. Offaly have been a long way off past glories for at least this decade. Antrim game a big test for them. Should have enough for Kerry. (Although bar 89 the buggers usually beat Antrim by a bit but hopefully not this year)
I'd say Offaly and Antrim at similar level, was listening to the games on the radio yesterday and the co commentator was an Offaly man, he was fuming
Going on yesterday I'd be surprised if Offaly get near Antrim either. Their touch was shocking, rallied a bit after half time but the Westmeath goals killed it. Westmeath should have won that game by 20+ points, really good performance in the first half but had a few needless wides. Weren't at the same pitch in the second half but did enough to kill the game. Killian Doyle was on fire throughout and Aonghus Clarke and Jogger were in complete command at the back, really strong spine to the team. Good work rate from Mitchell up top too. A full performance like that first half, next weekend against Kerry, should set us up for a nice battle with Laois and Antrim to make the final.
Iarmhí Abú
Limerick shaken to the core as Cork demolish the apple-cart
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/limerick-shaken-to-the-core-as-cork-demolish-the-apple-cart-1.3897627
All-Ireland champions left looking ordinary after Cork catapult themselves back in the mix
We should have known, really. The lesson of the hurling summer of 2018 was that nobody was safe, least of all in Munster. And so it has proven again this time around. Cork, so lily-livered and out of sorts in their opening-day defeat to Tipperary, turned the whole thing on its head by going to Limerick and handing the All-Ireland champions a 1-26 to 1-19 defeat.
Four games into the Munster championship, three home defeats. Driven on by Patrick Horgan, who scored 1-9 despite for once having a shaky day on the frees, Cork catapulted themselves back into the mix. It was vindication for John Meyler, who made four changes and lost Conor Lehane after six minutes. But with Daniel Kearney and Séamus Harnedy in full cry, they made Limerick look very ordinary in a dominant second-half display.
"There are five teams in Munster, three of them weren't here today and they can all beat each other on any given day and everybody knows that," said John Meyler afterwards. "There are five really good teams and the Munster championship is really competitive and you don't think anything for granted. We knew that coming up today that we had to up our performance, our work-rate, which wasn't good enough last Sunday, but we got it today."
Torpedoed
For Limerick, this was an apple-cart not so much upset as torpedoed. All the fine words about their handling of All-Ireland success, all the hosannas sung for their league title earlier in the year, all of it is up for grabs now. They have to go to Waterford in a fortnight to rescue their summer.
"I see very little chance of us being able to make it through without winning down there," said John Kiely. "I don't know what the maths is going to be like at that stage but listen, let's face it, we've lost our first game, we need to get something out of that second game. We have to go and get a result."
Hurling odds 21/5
Tipp 11/2
Cork 5/1
Galway 5/1
Lim 11/2
Clare 13/2
Kk 7/1
Tipp 11/2?
Odds I found today, 21 May:
Tipp 11/4
Cork Galway Limerick all 9/2
Kilkenny 5/1
Clare 13/2
Wexford 20/1
Dublin 33/1
Quote from: Ball Hopper on May 21, 2019, 10:02:00 PM
Odds I found today, 21 May:
Tipp 11/4
Cork Galway Limerick all 9/2
Kilkenny 5/1
Clare 13/2
Wexford 20/1
Dublin 33/1
There's a bit of value to be had with KK
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 21, 2019, 09:42:54 PM
Tipp 11/2?
Another typo
Should be 11/4
fierce early for that I think. a lot of hurling to be played
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2019, 08:30:10 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on May 21, 2019, 10:02:00 PM
Odds I found today, 21 May:
Tipp 11/4
Cork Galway Limerick all 9/2
Kilkenny 5/1
Clare 13/2
Wexford 20/1
Dublin 33/1
There's a bit of value to be had with KK
I can see a semi-final in them TBF. Not sure thereafter.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-tipp-s-roving-style-makes-defending-against-them-a-nightmare-1.3902326
Jackie Tyrrell: Tipp's roving style makes defending against them a nightmare
I chased Noel McGrath around Croke Park that day, but really I was chasing shadows
about an hour ago
Jackie Tyrrell
After 21 minutes of the Tipperary versus Waterford game on Sunday there was a frantic piece of action in the middle third of the field in Thurles. Various players from both sides tried to put manners on the ball until eventually Paudie Maher played a lateral pass to James Barry, who in turn stroked a low ball to Ronan Maher, standing just short of his own 65 with his hand in the air.
The camera angle from behind the goal is perfect for seeing what Tipperary are all about now. As the ball was going from Paudie Maher to Barry, Ronan Maher and Brendan Maher (standing to his right) both took a quick look over left and right shoulders to check where the space was.
As soon as Ronan saw that John McGrath's corner was empty, his hand shot up, looking for the ball off Barry. He collected the pass and striking across his body off his left side, played a diagonal ball that went 60 metres to top of the right where McGrath was running out from goal to collect it.
Catch, one touch, turn, over the shoulder, point. Not much Noel Connors could have done about it. If you freeze the frame as the ball is coming in, John McGrath is the only Tipp attacker inside the 45 and Waterford have three defenders in there covering zonally. The ball from Ronan Maher was so good and so well-disguised that it took out all three of them.
As I looked on it felt like I was watching my own funeral.
That's because halfway through the first half of the 2014 All-Ireland final the exact same play happened to me. Talk about déjà vu. Different years, different pitch, different environment, different contributors. Same result.
I chased Noel McGrath around Croke Park that day, but really I was chasing shadows. I was sucking for oxygen, looking for a respite in the cauldron of intensity. The worst thing about it was it felt like Noel was just gliding around Croke Park, constantly out of my reach and I couldn't shackle him.
At that point Noel was standing at the end of my bed with the plug from my life-support machine in his hand. Looking at me just like in the Mortal Kombat computer game with the finishing move in sight. GAME OVER!
He scorched me for four points that day, and scored an identical point to the one his brother scored against Waterford on Sunday.
Bottled up
The really interesting thing about that is that it isn't as if Tipperary have been scoring those points day-in, day-out through the five years since.
The Tipp team that went out early in Munster last year was so easily bottled up and yet if you compare the forward line from this game to the one from their final game in 2018, Bubbles O'Dwyer for Billy McCarthy was the only change.
So how does a team who seemed so stuck in a rut, lacking ideas and direction, one that was essentially playing with the handbrake on last year, how does that turn into this?
There is no coincidence here. With Eamon O'Shea back in the Tipperary fold they have put together some off-the-charts stats from their attack. In two games they've scored 2-28 and 2-30, with 2-23 and 2-24 from play. Those numbers are devastating.
In these two games Tipperary have been all about movement, creation of space, giving the right ball to the right person at the right time, long ball, short ball, high or low, whatever the situation requires. To put up 4-58 over two games, with 4-47 from play, is incredible stuff.
O'Shea's fingerprints are all over this attack. They are averaging a score every two minutes. They don't have any really pacy players, but their roving style and movement opens up a world of space for defences to close off.
Defending against it is a nightmare. You're continually fighting fires and filling gaps. Bubbles starts inside, and moves to centre forward. Jason Forde starts inside, then moves out, Seamus Callanan the same. Out and around, in and away. And then bang – John McGrath is under no pressure even though he's outnumbered by three-to-one.
That's why I was getting flashbacks to 2014 when I saw how this forward unit sets up and moves and creates space. You make space on a hurling pitch by moving the opposition around, putting them in places they don't want to be. Tipp took us all over the pitch in that 2014 drawn final, never more so than in their forwards.
Alien space
I'll never forget there was one stage where Darren Gleeson pinged a puck-out to Noel with me on his tail. His movement had been so constant in the minute or so before it that when he caught the ball, he was standing in midfield. Which meant that I was standing in midfield too. Not good!
I honestly didn't know what to do. I was in an alien space. I'm sure anyone in the crowd who saw this was thinking, "what in the name of God is Tyrrell doing out there?" Trust me, I was thinking the same thing. All that was in my mind was, "I need to get out of here".
I'd say it was pretty much the first time in my career that I had spent any significant time where I was closer to the opponent's goal than my own. In an All-Ireland final! Crazy stuff.
The worst of it was I could sense that Noel knew this. Tipp knew they had our number that day. They looked us straight in the eye and just went past us as if we didn't exist at times. It left us in a spin. I had a headache after the game, purely from trying to concentrate on what they were doing.
They beat our backs all ends up in that game. We conceded 1-28, which really hurt us. But then everybody knows that. A more interesting subject for this column to get into is what we did to turn it around in the 20 days between that game and the replay.
We bounced back and held them to 2-14 the second time around. Tipperary didn't get any less talented or any less slick or any less motivated in those 20 days yet we were able to bottle them up. How? What was the difference?
Match-ups
When we sat back and looked at the game, we boiled it down to three things that essentially had to change if we were to contain them. Broadly, we split these into match-ups, defensive fluidity and cohesion.
The first one was obvious. We had to get our match-ups right the next day, which meant everyone knew early on who their target would be. I was detailed to be on Bubbles, JJ Delaney would take Callanan, with Paul Murphy going on to Lar.
Kieran Joyce was drafted in at centre-back to take on Bonner Maher, Cillian Buckley picked up Noel McGrath, and Pádraig Walsh came in at wing-back to make use of his aerial ability.
The next thing was defensive fluidity, the starting point of which was simple – when they set foot inside our 65-metre line they were ours, the backs. Outside of that distance it was the job of our midfielders and forwards to spot the danger and pick them up. We reasoned they wouldn't be able to hurt us all that much that far out.
We decided as well that we weren't going to be stuck to our positions. We were going to trust our match-ups and every man was going to do a proper man-marking job. We were going to be touch-tight at all times – if air or light could get between you and your man you weren't tight enough.
The consequence of this fluidity was that we were going to find ourselves popping up in positions that we weren't naturally familiar with. So in the training sessions during that three-week period we all made ourselves comfortable in different places on the pitch. When the ball was in play, you followed and tracked your man no matter where he went until the ball went dead.
We orchestrated training so that you could end up in three or four different positions over the course of one passage of play. You could start off corner-back, get pulled out to half back, follow your man back into full-back and finish in the other corner. You might have covered 80 yards and not seen the ball.
When the ball went dead we restructured our shape – JJ went to the edge of the square, Joycey to went six and we filled in around them. By the time the replay came around, we were used to it and expected it.
Great defensive plays
The third element was cohesion. Basically, none of us were to be out there defending alone. The best example of it came with JJ's hook on Callanan, one of the great defensive plays executed in Croke Park. Most people who are any way into hurling could describe it to you – Seamie bearing down on goal, JJ trailing in his wake, Seamie pulling the trigger and JJ getting his stick in to foil him.
For us what came next was every bit as important. JJ got the hook alright, but he had to dive headlong to do it so when the ball spilled at Callanan's feet, JJ was sprawled on the ground, out of the game. Watch it back and you'll see that Callanan only had to readjust his feet and he still had a free shot, no more than six or seven yards out from goal. Eoin Murphy had moved his body to go to save the first attempt and was in the process of getting himself set again for the second.
JJ's hook was amazing, but if Callanan had been able to whip on the loose ball and bury it to the net, nobody would remember it. The reason it lives on to this day is that Pádraig Walsh had made a covering run while JJ was chasing Callanan, and was able to be in and disrupt Seamie's second swing at it. Pádraig didn't even touch the ball – he just threw his hip into Seamie's and Paul Murphy was able to come in and scoop it up and make the clearance.
That was the key to the cohesion part of the plan. You backed each other up and you trusted that if a Tipp forward got around you, the cavalry wasn't going to be far behind. It was a simplistic approach, but when carried out with conviction and hurt it made for a dangerous and effective system.
Five years on and Tipperary look to be back in the groove, with all the old Eamon O'Shea movement in play again. We were able to hold them in the replay in 2014 so it can be done. But it takes a lot of planning, a lot of discipline and if there's a bit of luck thrown in, it won't do any harm.
I've been in O'Shea's company once at an event in Downpatrick and he's certainly different to any other coach I've ever listened to.
He's very much motivated by movement, creating space and decision making, not a cone in sight.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2019, 10:08:10 AM
I've been in O'Shea's company once at an event in Downpatrick and he's certainly different to any other coach I've ever listened to.
He's very much motivated by movement, creating space and decision making, not a cone in sight.
He is a really interesting person. It's a pity he didn't win an all Ireland with them when he was manager
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2019, 10:08:10 AM
I've been in O'Shea's company once at an event in Downpatrick and he's certainly different to any other coach I've ever listened to.
He's very much motivated by movement, creating space and decision making, not a cone in sight.
He is a really interesting person. It's a pity he didn't win an all Ireland with them when he was manager
he was a bit to loyal to underperforming players
he's probably better as a coach and coming up with solutions or game based training
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 24, 2019, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2019, 10:08:10 AM
I've been in O'Shea's company once at an event in Downpatrick and he's certainly different to any other coach I've ever listened to.
He's very much motivated by movement, creating space and decision making, not a cone in sight.
He is a really interesting person. It's a pity he didn't win an all Ireland with them when he was manager
he was a bit to loyal to underperforming players
he's probably better as a coach and coming up with solutions or game based training
Which is what you need in any successful team set up, trying to do it all or being very good in one area and lacking in another will eventually catch you out.
The bit in bold needs to be implemented from the start, once kids have an understanding of spacial awareness then game based training has to be employed. But the ball is fine as it is ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 24, 2019, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 24, 2019, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2019, 10:08:10 AM
I've been in O'Shea's company once at an event in Downpatrick and he's certainly different to any other coach I've ever listened to.
He's very much motivated by movement, creating space and decision making, not a cone in sight.
He is a really interesting person. It's a pity he didn't win an all Ireland with them when he was manager
he was a bit to loyal to underperforming players
he's probably better as a coach and coming up with solutions or game based training
Which is what you need in any successful team set up, trying to do it all or being very good in one area and lacking in another will eventually catch you out.
The bit in bold needs to be implemented from the start, once kids have an understanding of spacial awareness then game based training has to be employed. But the ball is fine as it is ;)
f**k no, the ball needs a lump of lead put in it.................
Our reserves lost 8 bloody balls into the Newry canal the other week. Can't be at that week in week out.
Ok.
Junior b goalies shouldn't be landing the ball past the half forward line
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 24, 2019, 04:35:19 PM
Ok.
Junior b goalies shouldn't be landing the ball past the half forward line
Why exactly?
Westmeath physio must feel like a right twat sending a picture of his c**k to the team Whatsapp group. ;D ;D ;D
Yeah heard that! ;D
Quote from: kerryforsam19 on May 24, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
Westmeath physio must feel like a right twat sending a picture of his c**k to the team Whatsapp group. ;D ;D ;D
Ah stop!!! Anymore details?! :D
Do you want a gawk, or what?!
Quote from: burdizzo on May 25, 2019, 11:04:42 PM
Do you want a gawk, or what?!
Ha ha no you are ok! Was there a fallout, was he with them tonight? etc etc
Quote from: Keyser Söze on May 25, 2019, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on May 25, 2019, 11:04:42 PM
Do you want a gawk, or what?!
Ha ha no you are ok! Was there a fallout, was he with them tonight? etc etc
Fully clothed and flute will hidden I hope! Seems Kerry took full advantage anyway
Great finish to Galway Wexford, Wexford fella should have taken his point rather than go for goal though.
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Can't win! Complaining about too many scores now not enough! Jeeze tough gig
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Can't win! Complaining about too many scores now not enough! Jeeze tough gig
The Wexford goalie went for scores on 3 occasions from inside his own 45 and hit them over the end line.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Can't win! Complaining about too many scores now not enough! Jeeze tough gig
The Wexford goalie went for scores on 3 occasions from inside his own 45 and hit them over the end line.
Yes I put that on my post! Goal keepers mimicking football keepers! There was a strong wind in fairness but you'll lose accuracy over distance, I'm sure you'd know that from your own playing experience
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 07:21:45 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 07:16:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Can't win! Complaining about too many scores now not enough! Jeeze tough gig
The Wexford goalie went for scores on 3 occasions from inside his own 45 and hit them over the end line.
Yes I put that on my post! Goal keepers mimicking football keepers! There was a strong wind in fairness but you'll lose accuracy over distance, I'm sure you'd know that from your own playing experience
Goalies should play where they are picked, in goals.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Can't win! Complaining about too many scores now not enough! Jeeze tough gig
You never throw out a wet ball when playing against the wind?
And there's me thinking you Frankies were cute hoors!
All in all I thought that was a poor enough game in Galway. Neither will be happy with the draw but the Galway forwards aren't standing up to be counted without Joe amongst them.
No leaders there, I can see Kilkenny take a Leinster title at this rate.
Good win for Offaly at U20 last night v Westmeath. At this stage we'll grasp any straws.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 28, 2019, 08:53:48 AM
Good win for Offaly at U20 last night v Westmeath. At this stage we'll grasp any straws.
Is club hurling now king in Offaly?
The reason I ask is that Kilcormac Killoughey, Coolderry and St Rynaghs have all made decent inroads into the Leinster club champions, but Offaly county teams don't mirror that standard at all..
That's the frustrating thing. At club level we have a lot of decent/strong clubs but they are either not clicking when they play county, or some of the lads are not committing. In fairness Coolderry had a lot of older lads, with the Bradys and Brian Carroll etc.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 27, 2019, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 26, 2019, 06:19:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2019, 05:50:11 PM
There was plenty opportunities for both at the end to win it in fairness, for an interest I backed a draw midway through second half :o
Couple of observations on the game, there were four pulls on the ground, 3 of them went to the opposition.
The weight of the ball in windy conditions reduced the scoring, as would a heavier ball BTW. Goal keepers in Hurling should just puck the ball out and stop shots at goal, shooting aimlessly from 90 yards is completely wasting your skilled forwards chance to score.
Davy is a nut job but I love his passion.
The last 15 minutes made up for the football though
A heavier ball wouldn't tail off due to the wind
There was nearly more scores in thge football in Castlebar on Saturday
Can't win! Complaining about too many scores now not enough! Jeeze tough gig
You never throw out a wet ball when playing against the wind?
And there's me thinking you Frankies were cute hoors!
All in all I thought that was a poor enough game in Galway. Neither will be happy with the draw but the Galway forwards aren't standing up to be counted without Joe amongst them.
No leaders there, I can see Kilkenny take a Leinster title at this rate.
I think it could be like 2012 with the roles reversed. KK need a Leinster title more than Galway.
KK were operating some way off top speed in the 2012 Leinster Final and Galway hosed them.
But KK won the all Ireland . And nobody remembers the Leinster.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-just-when-they-look-to-be-coming-dublin-freeze-1.3886531
"Carton House, Maynooth, Co Kildare. That stunning drive from the entrance gate up to the 18th century Manor House. Passing sun-drenched golfers as they shoot the breeze. Down over a lovely hump-back bridge, around the bend with a beautiful view out in front of you as the sun bounces off the roof of the boat house. A peaceful and stunning setting.
Yeah. Good luck with that, lads. I'm three years retired this year and I haven't set foot in the place and I have no plans to. Carton House to me always meant hell. It was where Kilkenny went for a pre-championship training camp and it wasn't about spa treatments or nice robes or comfy slippers.
We went there to work and that meant going to war with each other. I have a clear memory of our trip there in 2012, a couple of weeks out from playing Dublin in Portlaoise in the Leinster semi-final.
On the Tuesday night, the last thing Brian Cody said at training was, "Kilkenny jerseys are up for grabs". Well, maybe it wasn't exactly the last thing but it was the last thing any of us took in. By Friday, it was the only thing that mattered.
Arriving at Carton House, some lads had one hand on a jersey, others had full possession. I was barely hanging onto mine with my fingertips. I knew the weekend was going to be torture but that suited me. It was going to be ridiculously hot – if the weather didn't make it that way, the intensity of the competition between us would. I needed that torture in order to be ready physically and mentally for Dublin."
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/lohan-says-clare-hurlers-lacking-proper-support-from-the-county-board-1.3907622
Lohan says Clare hurlers lacking proper support from the county board
'You need a more dynamic county board than what is there' says former star
about 4 hours ago
Ian O'Riordan
Anyone familiar with Brian Lohan and his own inimitable style of hurling might understand why he chose a GAA Legends Tour launch to issue a gentle broadside against his own county. Lohan was never soft or superficial and certainly not fashionable.
He still speaks like he played, straight up and no gobbledygook, and even if retired since 2006 Lohan still has strong views on Clare hurling.
They haven't won a Munster title since he was lording full back in 1998, and their 2013 All-Ireland win aside, he reckons Clare's chance for more tangible success may well have passed them by.
Lohan isn't glorifying his own era either, at least not when it comes to Davy Fitzgerald, the current Wexford manager and the player who stood directly behind him in the Clare goal throughout those thick and thin years of the 1990s.
"Generally relationships are very good amongst everyone, bar one player," Lohan says of Clare's All-Ireland-winning team of 1995 and 1997, making no effort to conceal who that one player is.
Lohan was referenced by Fitzgerald in his latest book At All Costs, published last year, after they crossed paths in a Fitzgibbon Cup quarter-final, Lohan then manager of UL, Fitzgerald manager of LIT.
"I really don't have anything to say about him to be honest," says Lohan.
What does he make of Fitzgerald's openly passionate style of management? (Last Sunday he was sent to the stand for contesting a decision in the Wexford-Galway championship match).
"I don't know if it's genuine passion. We're all passionate about the game. We show it in different ways. So, you know, he has the way he does things and people have to kind of fit into that. But I think some of the antics, they're not great."
Lohan's passion for Clare hurling comes across as more muted, if no less telling, and he openly questions the county board and the sort of support he feels is necessary to win back another Munster title.
"It's a poor record in Munster really. They've got to the final for the last two years alright. But when it was knockout, we'd a poor record in Munster. Even though we did win that All-Ireland in 2013, we lost the first round badly against Cork. Then a couple of poor performances in the Munster Championship, albeit they did turn it around.
Really isn't good enough for young fellas having to wait before they get their expenses because, you know, they do have to live
"The problem now is Tipp had a bit of lull last year after a couple of successful years. They had that lull, had that mental break when they weren't involved in big games. They're back now, and seem to really be at the pitch of it.
"Cork are a good quality team, they're one of the traditional big three, and they're not going to stay losing All-Irelands forever. They've got such quality that it's difficult. When you have Tipp and Cork down, you have to make hay because they're not going to stay down."
More dynamic
Lohan also won four All Stars in his time, was 1995 Hurler of the Year.
Now, speaking at the launch of the 2019 Bord Gáis Energy GAA Legends Tour Series, along with Donegal footballer Eamon McGee, he pointed to a few lasting shortfalls in the Clare hurling structures.
"Look, there's great clubs, there's really good people involved at both club level and at county level. Sometimes I think they're a bit let down by the county board. That would be my own opinion on it.
"I think you need a more dynamic county board than what is there. There has been a couple of controversies there recently in relation to the county board. There is a lot of money involved in it [the game] and I think you have to have that level of professionalism within that structure . . .to to assist the teams and get the most out of the county teams. I don't know if that's there.
"I think last year, before the All-Ireland semi-final against Galway, that Friday night is the first time the players got their expenses for the whole year which just really isn't good enough for young fellas having to wait before they get their expenses because, you know, they do have to live.
"That wouldn't have been accepted back when I was playing 20 years ago, whereas it seems to be accepted now. It's just things like that that have to be improved.
"But they had a great campaign and were unlucky not to be in the final and that's credit to the whole set-up that that was never an issue. They just got their business done."
Clare welcome Tipperary to Ennis on Sunday, in the third round of the Munster championship round-robin, a game which may well decide a place in the final. Lohan is torn between Clare and Liverpool FC this weekend, the club he supports; he'll be in Madrid on Saturday for the Champions League final, still waiting on that ticket to come through.
"I don't know, competition is very challenging, there's a lot of counties doing an awful lot right," he says of Clare's chances this summer.
"Cork seem to be doing their business right, Kilkenny are doing their business right, Galway are doing their business right, you know, Limerick. You have a lot of good teams out there, good structures and good resources as well, while we have a good team we have reasonable structures – but we don't seem to have the resources."
He's more positive however about the current joint management team of Donal Moloney and Gerry O'Connor.
"They've done a great job, worked well with the players, they seem to know exactly what their roles are and they seem to be working great".
Might he ever consider Clare management, jointly or otherwise?
"I haven't really thought about it. Not with the present county board."
Anyone familiar with Lohan will know he won't be easily turned either.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-mentally-soft-limerick-learn-hurling-world-a-fickle-place-1.3909746
Jackie Tyrrell: Mentally soft Limerick learn hurling world a fickle place
Even the All-Ireland champions must accept that distractions can get to everyone
about 3 hours ago
Jackie Tyrrell
0
The nature of this year's league actually did Limerick no favours. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
On this Sunday nine weeks ago, we had the ultimate Phoney War take place in Croke Park when Waterford and Limerick met in the league final.
Go back and watch it and that's what strikes you, how it rivals those early months of World War II for its lack of intensity, savagery and real purpose. A national title was on the line but you wouldn't know it.
Limerick and Waterford played out a timid and lacklustre league final that day. It had an inevitability about it long before James Owens blew up. Limerick did what they had to do and did it for long periods in third gear, almost yawning as they went.
The hurling world is a fickle place. Nine weeks ago these were the top two teams in the league. All their plans were running like clockwork, everything they wanted out of the spring had come to pass. That's partly why we saw such a nothing game in the final – Waterford were happy enough, whatever happened. And Limerick were happy enough to take advantage.
The concerning thing from the Cork game wasn't just that they lost
Look at the two of them now. Both of them are staring down the barrel of the gun. Limerick really need a win, Waterford really, really need a win. Losing just isn't an option for either of them.
We constantly get reminders not to get too carried away in sport, for good or for bad. In the space of seven days, Cork turned their performance levels upside-down and went to the Gaelic Grounds and nailed Limerick to the wall. That's in just seven days – imagine what can happen in nine weeks.
Think of where Limerick were after they left Croke Park that day nine weeks ago. They were after walking a league title. Everyone kept telling them they were the best team in the country, that they had handled being All-Ireland champions perfectly, that they had the deepest panel and the fiercest competition for places. What could possibly go wrong?
Now look where they are. Going to Waterford needing a win, first and foremost. But needing as well to arrest the doubts that have to have crept in after the Cork game. Maybe it was only a blip but they don't know that for sure yet. If they're not doubting themselves at this stage, if they're questioning everything, then they're in real trouble.
No favours
The nature of this year's league actually did Limerick no favours. It was diluted from start to finish. Once nobody was getting relegated and nobody was getting promoted, everybody went into it easing off on the throttle. If it had been one of the hell-for-leather leagues like we've had for the past five or six years, then Limerick would have been stress-tested more than they were.
As it was, they lost one game at home to Cork and were held by Clare on the last day of the group stage when they were already guaranteed to top Division 1A. After that, they beat Laois, Dublin and Waterford to lift the trophy.
How many dogfights were they in? How many games did management come away from knowing they have this problem or that problem to solve? How could they know, one way or the other, where they were at going into the Munster championship?
One thing jumped out at me, screaming mental softness
The concerning thing from the Cork game wasn't just that they lost. It was that Cork were able to dismantle Limerick's simplistic but highly-effective gameplan. Limerick's half-back line is the most crucial line on the team and the source of so much of their power and momentum. But this was the poorest I have seen them perform in a number of different categories.
They never created the platform on which to build attacks. They did not deal well with the deep roaming roles of Daniel Kearney and Luke Meade. They didn't drop back to cut out the space for Patrick Horgan and Alan Cadogan. Most surprising of all, they were so poor under the high ball which is their bread and butter.
• Séamus Callanan on the verge of Tipperary scoring history
• Lohan says Clare hurlers lacking proper support from the county board
• Backstreet brawl in Salthill leaves Galway wondering what happened
These are mental errors. They come from poor communication, a lack of focus, switching off. If Daniel Kearney has found space in a pocket by drifting away from Diarmaid Byrnes, it's because Byrnes hasn't got onto his midfielder or wing-forward to make sure Kearney is being picked up. Same with Luke Meade on the other wing.
Mentally soft
Limerick were mentally soft in this game. There's no other way to describe it. It really looked like they went in believing their own hype. That's understandable, given how well everything had been going for them, but only up to a point. Waterford have to be alive to any sign of it on Sunday. If it's still there, Limerick are in trouble.
Here's how it translated to the pitch. One thing jumped out at me, screaming mental softness. Think back to the start of the second half and a couple of routine long puck-outs from Anthony Nash. These weren't the laser missiles from Nash that go 70 yards at head height, they were just ordinary long puck-outs coming out of the sky midway between the 65 and the edge of the D.
Job number one for Limerick is to recalibrate mentally, to head down to Walsh Park as the hunter again
The first one bounced about 30 metres out. Alan Cadogan came out from corner-forward to collect it and after a short solo run, he played a nice handpass to Luke Meade who was looping out around him. Simple score for Meade.
Now, that can happen. It's no big crime to lose your positioning for a puck-out once in a while. I rewound it a few times to try and work out whose mistake it was and I actually couldn't tell who was supposed to be attacking the ball in the air – that told me that their initial set-up was the problem. Okay, fine. Just fix it for the next one.
The next one was the killer. It came less than a minute later and it landed in exactly the same spot on the pitch in exactly the same way. Nash went long, the ball bounced, and Cadogan was out to it again. This time he wheeled to his right and took his own score.
Alarm bells
That second point rang huge alarm bells for me. Limerick's half-back line is usually so imperious, so full of leaders and organisers and communicators. How could they let something like that happen twice in the space of a minute? It felt to me like cast-iron proof that they weren't mentally prepared for the game.
Those mistakes weren't happening last year when Limerick were ravenous in every match, in every contact, on every puck-out. The only thing that has changed in the meantime is they've become All-Ireland champions.
Hype is like the devil. There's a bit of it in everyone. It happens in every successful career at some stage because everyone is human. No matter how hard you try, a part of you ends up thinking you have it sussed. But you never have this game sussed.
In 2012, we got blown away in a Leinster final by Galway. Hype wasn't the only reason it happened but it was in the mix. We were All-Ireland champions, we had hammered Dublin a few weeks beforehand and we were invincible. But not for long.
In time, Limerick might come back and tell us that the Cork game was the best thing that happened to them. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Galway blitzed us. We didn't know what was going on. I didn't know who I was marking, I didn't know where I was meant to be on the pitch. Tommy Walsh hit two of the craziest sidelines balls of his life straight to Galway players. Think about that – one of the greatest players in the game making such a basic mental error.
We were punch drunk, all over the place, completely run ragged. Before I knew where I was, I was sitting in the Crowne Plaza looking at a beef dinner I didn't want wondering what the Jesus happened in the last few hours.
When you are All-Ireland champions, it's so hard to keep that edge. It's so difficult to be always in that mind-set of hunting teams down and proving points to people. At a certain stage, you feel you don't have anything left to prove.
How could Limerick feel otherwise after last year? They won one of the best All-Ireland championships there has ever been. They were tested at every turn and they came through it all. Then they strolled through the league. Imagine how hard it would be to convince yourself you still have something to prove after that.
Exceptional requests
It took me years to work out the best way of approaching it. Striving for the extra per cent, keeping the head down and staying out of the spotlight is impossible. So you have to limit it to exceptional requests and circumstances.
Everywhere you go, you're the person people want to talk to. In a small gathering, you're the main focus – or you feel like you are. At the All Stars, in your work environment, you're in situations where nobody is asking you to prove anything when it comes to hurling. All they want is their own small connection to an achievement that is already in the past.
You get asked to all sorts of events, weddings, parties, functions. You're now a pin-up in hurling terms whether you like it or not. You could go around with a scissors in your pocket cutting ribbons and opening businesses if you wanted. All distractions. And all the way through them, everyone is nice to you and nobody is testing you.
Look at Shane O'Donnell, who had to deal with all manner of crazy sideshows after the 2013 All-Ireland. That's the world you're in now and it's great and you owe it to yourself to embrace it. But you have to come back and hurl to following year too.
It takes a mental toll. No two ways about it. Going all those months without hardship, without anyone testing your hunger, it can absolutely make you mentally soft without you knowing it. All the advice in the world from former players only tells you the half of it. You have to go through it to understand it.
We find it very hard as a society to say no to requests for our time. We live in small counties in a small country and everyone knows everyone so we all worry what people will think of us. What I found over the course of my career was that saying no became a very important skill I was able to develop.
"Sorry, no, I just can't do it." It might sound harsh and to some people in the outside world, it might come across in a way that you don't mean it to. But it's your time and your career and nobody will look after it if you don't. Otherwise, any mental slip you make has a habit of showing up at the worst possible time.
None of this has to be fatal for Limerick. Far from it. In time, they might come back and tell us that the Cork game was the best thing that happened to them. They will have had some harsh conversations and even harsher training sessions over the past fortnight. Job number one for them is to recalibrate mentally, to head down to Walsh Park as the hunter again.
If they do that, they can get their season back on track. If they don't, I wouldn't rule out a surprise from Waterford.
So much for clamping down on illegal handpassing
It's rampant in Limerick v Waterford
Quote from: hardstation on June 02, 2019, 02:33:05 PM
How can the ref justify a yellow for Shanahan?
He hit him with the hurl! Terrible decision.
Yup, should have been a straight red.
Waterford are rudderless and could ship a big beating here from Limerick
No chance of relegation from Munster doesn't incentivise much when you are out of contention for the final. Bottom should require a playoff with Leinster.
Tier 2 for Waterford.
Tipperary should win handy enough. Put 50 on limerick, Tipp and kildare
Quote from: Farrandeelin on June 02, 2019, 03:34:36 PM
Tier 2 for Waterford.
Tier 2 for definite. Can't be having these mismatch games!
Tipp getting frees so much handier than Clare
It's like two sets of rules
Clare were so disappointing today. I expected a lot more from them especially in the second half. They will need to get a win in Limerick now I think.
Waterford have missed the boat, and their star is starting to fade, Clare have potential but were pure muck today but a lot of credit to Tipp who came and dominated the game from start to finish and no period of taking the foot off the gas, which they've been doing for years!
Limerick turned up today and showed just how good they are, any team that can keep Shane Dowling as a sub shows you how strong they are
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2019, 08:43:56 PM
Waterford have missed the boat, and their star is starting to fade, Clare have potential but were pure muck today but a lot of credit to Tipp who came and dominated the game from start to finish and no period of taking the foot off the gas, which they've been doing for years!
Limerick turned up today and showed just how good they are, any team that can keep Shane Dowling as a sub shows you how strong they are
I don't even know what Waterford's game plan was - especially with a very strong breeze. They didn't know what to do.
I've always said they should play Austin Gleeson at No. 6 and build a defence around him.
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2019, 09:13:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2019, 08:43:56 PM
Waterford have missed the boat, and their star is starting to fade, Clare have potential but were pure muck today but a lot of credit to Tipp who came and dominated the game from start to finish and no period of taking the foot off the gas, which they've been doing for years!
Limerick turned up today and showed just how good they are, any team that can keep Shane Dowling as a sub shows you how strong they are
I don't even know what Waterford's game plan was - especially with a very strong breeze. They didn't know what to do.
I've always said they should play Austin Gleeson at No. 6 and build a defence around him.
Agreed
Your best hurler is usually at 6
However, don't think Austin has the desire for marking
He'd be better at 11 or 14
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 03, 2019, 12:33:33 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 02, 2019, 09:13:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2019, 08:43:56 PM
Waterford have missed the boat, and their star is starting to fade, Clare have potential but were pure muck today but a lot of credit to Tipp who came and dominated the game from start to finish and no period of taking the foot off the gas, which they've been doing for years!
Limerick turned up today and showed just how good they are, any team that can keep Shane Dowling as a sub shows you how strong they are
I don't even know what Waterford's game plan was - especially with a very strong breeze. They didn't know what to do.
I've always said they should play Austin Gleeson at No. 6 and build a defence around him.
Agreed
Your best hurler is usually at 6
However, don't think Austin has the desire for marking
He'd be better at 11 or 14
True but he has mad zero impact so far, at either mid-field of up front.
He has never dominated games though. He has scored some spectacular points and made some fantastic catches but I don't think he is consistent enough. In saying that though he is young.
Donal Og calling for reviews for anyone not competing in the hurling. Waterford have the players - their setup just doesn't seem right this year.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/nicky-english-impressive-tipperary-looking-a-cut-above-the-rest-1.3912840
Nicky English: Impressive Tipperary looking a cut above the rest
Work rate, power and fitness as well as a classy forward line proves a potent combination
Nicky English
It's probably worth making the point that so far the round-robin championship has failed to live up to 2018 levels. Too many teams look like they have lost form and there hasn't been the same excitement.
Not that any of this will bother Liam Sheedy and his management team because Tipperary have been extremely impressive in running up three wins, two away from home.
In the first 15 minutes in Ennis, Clare put it up to Tipp. Peter Duggan was scoring his frees and Podge Collins looked busy but the seeds of the downfall were there. Tipperary were starting to get on top physically and Brendan Maher's marking job on Tony Kelly was already looking ominous for Clare.
Noel McGrath was making things happen and his brother John, who has got better each week, picked up a couple of points and then they combined for Noel's goal and suddenly that scoring power that we've seen from Tipp in the first matches kicked in and they were five and six points ahead.
Clare fought hard and Tipp conceded frees a little like they had against Cork before half-time and Duggan converted them to leave his team just about within range at half-time. But even with the wind to come, signs weren't good and sure enough things didn't improve for the home side.
Kelly never shook off Maher, Cathal Barrett continued to get the better of Shane O'Donnell and while John Conlon was able to win ball, his use of it was never at the weapons-grade level so noticeable last year.
In the second half, Clare went from being man-to-man to using a sweeper. I'm not sure if the idea was to create space up front but it meant that Pádraic Maher was left as the spare man in defence and with Tipperary so on top in the middle third, there was no pressure exerted on Maher.
This for me summed up Tipp in 2019: unbelievable work rate, power and fitness, epitomised by Bonner Maher, who has been a revelation this season. His forcefulness and first touch is phenomenal. Ronan Maher's shoulder on Cathal Malone was another example. They're first to the ball and blew Clare away in the rucks.
Up front they've the precision of Séamie Callanan, getting his 30th championship goal for the county, John McGrath – six points from play – and Bubbles O'Dwyer. While supporters will be delighted with the scoring rate that's averaging 30 a game, I suspect they'll be even more pleased with the strength and dynamism of the team at the back and the collective application.
Good challenge
It's probably valid to ask if they're showing too much too soon by lighting it up in May but you have to bear in mind that we're not counting down to September anymore and the middle of August isn't that far away. Few teams look likely to threaten those performance levels, especially as the field looks to have fallen back.
For Clare it's all a bit worrying. Their win in Walsh Park was a positive start to the campaign but the reservations about the failure to put Waterford away have increased in the intervening weeks.
Limerick is a good challenge for them next as it's a local rivalry, but you would think that their scoring rate is going to have to improve if they're to stay competitive with the stronger teams. Of their key scorers, Duggan and Conlon were replaced and Kelly didn't impact. Improvement is desperately needed.
That's all the more acute as Limerick found have found a bit of form without being entirely convincing. They got back on the bike.
I thought Waterford had showed a bit of fight against Tipperary but maybe it's easy to do that when there's no pressure on, trailing a match and down to 14 and essentially beaten.
There was no similar spirit at the weekend, no spark, no fight. As soon as Aaron Gillane got the goal, the wheels completely came off for Waterford. It's hard to know what they were thinking – you would have imagined that they might have used the wind in the first half to have a cut and maybe get Austin Gleeson up front.
There has to be something wrong when you see Pauric Mahony taking a frustrated pull at an opponent and Austin Gleeson going off at half-time. They have drifted alarmingly since the All-Ireland final two years ago.
Limerick worked a lot harder than in their first match and I think they'd another gear if they needed it.
They looked more themselves. Cian Lynch and Kyle Hayes who had shown flashed against Cork were far closer to their 2018 form. They successfully introduced the subs, who got good scores, but there are bigger tests to come.
Galway finally starting to flow
TJ is able to draw a free whenever he wants.
Galway showed great character to go down the pitch and reply to KK's goal in kind
KK were indisciplined out of frustration I imagine . Cody will be disappointed.
TJ Reid is some hurler
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2019, 04:29:25 PM
Galway showed great character to go down the pitch and reply to KK's goal in kind
KK were indisciplined out of frustration I imagine . Cody will be disappointed.
TJ Reid is some hurler
What's happening? I cant get a raido commentary anywhere and no way of watching in on Sky.
Galway won by a point.
Wonderful commitment.
Fully committed.
Will have to be committed myself if Ger Canning doesn't stop talking shi'ite.
What constitutes a throw ? I've had this on 10 minutes and counted at least 5.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
What constitutes a throw ? I've had this on 10 minutes and counted at least 5.
Very hard to quantify - there must be a movement, however big or small between the hand and sliotar.
A fews ago, there was the 'throw up and strike' with clear daylight between hand andball but game is so fast nowadays and so must pressure on players that they arequick at it.
I think there was an incentive at start of year from HQ to referees to clamp down but it's so hard to see with the naked eye.
Cian Lynch (fantastic hurler though he is) seems to throw it every time. Tony Kelly too.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 09, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
What constitutes a throw ? I've had this on 10 minutes and counted at least 5.
Watching on tv makes it easier to see. The rule was slightly changed to be a clear gap between hand and ball. Live on the pitch depending on position/view of ref it's going so fast it really is hard to call, as a player I generally 'threw' the ball during a game, if you get caught then you made an effort.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on June 09, 2019, 04:49:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 09, 2019, 04:29:25 PM
Galway showed great character to go down the pitch and reply to KK's goal in kind
KK were indisciplined out of frustration I imagine . Cody will be disappointed.
TJ Reid is some hurler
What's happening? I cant get a raido commentary anywhere and no way of watching in on Sky.
It was on RTE and all Lar. Mighty game. Munster fails to hit last year's high. Another drubbing for Clare today.
Clare have collapsed this year for some reason. It might be time for a new management team.
They are pushing the sliotar, not striking it with the hand
Referees are too scared to call them
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 09, 2019, 09:18:34 PM
They are pushing the sliotar, not striking it with the hand
Referees are too scared to call them
Still a handpass though - too hard for a referee to see that with the naked eye.
Best thing is to blow up for a back handpass in the first 5mins and that'll serve as a warning!!!
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 09, 2019, 09:18:34 PM
They are pushing the sliotar, not striking it with the hand
Referees are too scared to call them
Referees are too scared? Wise up
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2019, 10:06:07 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 09, 2019, 09:18:34 PM
They are pushing the sliotar, not striking it with the hand
Referees are too scared to call them
Referees are too scared? Wise up
its coming from commentators, managers and ex players
'let the game flow'
'fastest game in the world'
'players are more skillful than ever'
referees won't get appointed for big game if they are seen to clamp down on certain rules. eg steps while carrying the ball and handpassing
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 10, 2019, 08:02:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2019, 10:06:07 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 09, 2019, 09:18:34 PM
They are pushing the sliotar, not striking it with the hand
Referees are too scared to call them
Referees are too scared? Wise up
its coming from commentators, managers and ex players
'let the game flow'
'fastest game in the world'
'players are more skillful than ever'
referees won't get appointed for big game if they are seen to clamp down on certain rules. eg steps while carrying the ball and handpassing
Commentators? Commentators have no say in whos picked on the panel for the championship, rules tests, fitness tests, assessments and hard work over the leagues where games are not as popular or even on tv to be commentated on, thats when its decided to pick the best referees, any notion that a referee will be swayed by some clampit on tv is compete rubbish.
They are at a level where they are continually assessed as they are all in contention to do the bigger games at the buisness end of the year, so I doubt very much they will be listening to what Donal Og and co have to say.
Yes there is a need to clamp down on the handpass but as said, very hard to always get a clear view on that, the steps needs to be addressed. Possibly in the the leauge there would need to be a complete hard approach on these two areas.
But stay off the glue please
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 09:03:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 10, 2019, 08:02:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 09, 2019, 10:06:07 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 09, 2019, 09:18:34 PM
They are pushing the sliotar, not striking it with the hand
Referees are too scared to call them
Referees are too scared? Wise up
its coming from commentators, managers and ex players
'let the game flow'
'fastest game in the world'
'players are more skillful than ever'
referees won't get appointed for big game if they are seen to clamp down on certain rules. eg steps while carrying the ball and handpassing
Commentators? Commentators have no say in whos picked on the panel for the championship, rules tests, fitness tests, assessments and hard work over the leagues where games are not as popular or even on tv to be commentated on, thats when its decided to pick the best referees, any notion that a referee will be swayed by some clampit on tv is compete rubbish.
They are at a level where they are continually assessed as they are all in contention to do the bigger games at the buisness end of the year, so I doubt very much they will be listening to what Donal Og and co have to say.
Yes there is a need to clamp down on the handpass but as said, very hard to always get a clear view on that, the steps needs to be addressed. Possibly in the the leauge there would need to be a complete hard approach on these two areas.
But stay off the glue please
referees that get criticised by the managers and commentators in the media from a few big counties generally don't get the top games
they have reps on the CCCC who appoint the referees
The sending off appeared to help Kilkenny as it so often does.
I see a lot of negativity surrounding Galway despite the win and more importantly the performance which is certainly unfair. Galway looked to tire in the last 10 minutes which wasn't overly surprising.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on June 10, 2019, 10:40:53 AM
The sending off appeared to help Kilkenny as it so often does.
I see a lot of negativity surrounding Galway despite the win and more importantly the performance which is certainly unfair. Galway looked to tire in the last 10 minutes which wasn't overly surprising.
Donoghue is the first manager to beat Cody 3 times in a row.
I remember the reaction to beating them in 2005. KK delivered an almighty hammering below in Thurles in 2006
Great to see Killimordaly and Turlough to the fore
Concannon was identified as a potential star earlier in the year by Vincent Hogan
"Hogan believes Brian Concannon will have a breakthrough year after being involved with Galway the last year.
"Brian Concannon, he's been on the Galway team for a while now. His club form is really good and we're talking about who's going to step up to the plate? Maybe Concannon could be the guy to step up to the plate for Galway."
Scorer of 2-2 in four appearances in last year's Leinster Championship, with a further 2-6 in this year's National Hurling League, Concannon has potent potential for Michael Donogue's side."
KK would remind you of Galway from a few years back, decent side but overly reliant on one class player. Take TJ out of that KK team yesterday and insert Joe for Galway and there would have been a pretty decent margin at the end. Both sides have plenty to work on all the same.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 10, 2019, 01:12:13 PM
KK would remind you of Galway from a few years back, decent side but overly reliant on one class player. Take TJ out of that KK team yesterday and insert Joe for Galway and there would have been a pretty decent margin at the end. Both sides have plenty to work on all the same.
I was thinking exactly the same about KK. TJR gets 55% of scores
Joe is not the same player, injury and the amount of years playing top level hurling has taken its toll, he'll never get back to that level again I fear, I could be wrong though.
but he'd be an unreal sub to bring on
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 08:26:38 PM
Joe is not the same player, injury and the amount of years playing top level hurling has taken its toll, he'll never get back to that level again I fear, I could be wrong though.
but he'd be an unreal sub to bring on
You clearly didn't see any of the league where he was the best hurler in the country
Playing him in a sub role?
Laughable comment
Quote from: seafoid on June 10, 2019, 01:48:04 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on June 10, 2019, 01:12:13 PM
KK would remind you of Galway from a few years back, decent side but overly reliant on one class player. Take TJ out of that KK team yesterday and insert Joe for Galway and there would have been a pretty decent margin at the end. Both sides have plenty to work on all the same.
I was thinking exactly the same about KK. TJR gets 55% of scores
T.J. Reid is an unreal hurler - consisently 9/10 in every game he plays. Not only solid on frees but his workrate without the ball is unreal. Decision making is first class also.
I think he deserved an All Star last year, if only for his league performances when KK won the league. He carried them to that win.
Quote from: clonadmad on June 10, 2019, 09:05:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 08:26:38 PM
Joe is not the same player, injury and the amount of years playing top level hurling has taken its toll, he'll never get back to that level again I fear, I could be wrong though.
but he'd be an unreal sub to bring on
You clearly didn't see any of the league where he was the best hurler in the country
Playing him in a sub role?
Laughable comment
Ok, league is for playing in, I'll judge him this year come championship, he's unreal but I feel he's had a long go at such a high level club and county that he like most, he will dip in form.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 09:34:18 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 10, 2019, 09:05:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 08:26:38 PM
Joe is not the same player, injury and the amount of years playing top level hurling has taken its toll, he'll never get back to that level again I fear, I could be wrong though.
but he'd be an unreal sub to bring on
You clearly didn't see any of the league where he was the best hurler in the country
Playing him in a sub role?
Laughable comment
Ok, league is for playing in, I'll judge him this year come championship, he's unreal but I feel he's had a long go at such a high level club and county that he like most, he will dip in form.
So your now predicting a dip in his form when does come back?
Is that in the sub role you've assigned for him?
🙄
Quote from: clonadmad on June 10, 2019, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 09:34:18 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 10, 2019, 09:05:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2019, 08:26:38 PM
Joe is not the same player, injury and the amount of years playing top level hurling has taken its toll, he'll never get back to that level again I fear, I could be wrong though.
but he'd be an unreal sub to bring on
You clearly didn't see any of the league where he was the best hurler in the country
Playing him in a sub role?
Laughable comment
Ok, league is for playing in, I'll judge him this year come championship, he's unreal but I feel he's had a long go at such a high level club and county that he like most, he will dip in form.
So your now predicting a dip in his form when does come back?
Is that in the sub role you've assigned for him?
🙄
Let's see, I've said he's not the same player as a few years ago, I don't think he'll hit those heights again, I could be wrong. Now if you think I've said something wrong then judge it over the championship when he plays.
Galway have done alright when he hasn't played. They're a better team and not a one man show.
The dip in form will be there as he's not fit, been 11 weeks since his dead leg, sorry groin injury (resulting in groin op) in the semi loss (in the league) against Waterford. Getting up to speed with that time off will not be easy!
Canning is just too good not to make an impact however he plays, even fitness issues not withstanding. Absolute hurling system.
Reid is also superb, though I would maybe posit not quite as consistent as Canning. Was hot and cold in last year's c'ship a bit, didn't score from play in Salthill for e.g. His performance last Sunday was incredible, surely as good as he's given for KK.
Quote from: mouview on June 12, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Canning is just too good not to make an impact however he plays, even fitness issues not withstanding. Absolute hurling system.
Reid is also superb, though I would maybe posit not quite as consistent as Canning. Was hot and cold in last year's c'ship a bit, didn't score from play in Salthill for e.g. His performance last Sunday was incredible, surely as good as he's given for KK.
Even if he was just taking frees..
The goals were very pleasing as was the performance of Concannon
A lot done. More to do.
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2019, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 12, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Canning is just too good not to make an impact however he plays, even fitness issues not withstanding. Absolute hurling system.
Reid is also superb, though I would maybe posit not quite as consistent as Canning. Was hot and cold in last year's c'ship a bit, didn't score from play in Salthill for e.g. His performance last Sunday was incredible, surely as good as he's given for KK.
Even if he was just taking frees..
The goals were very pleasing as was the performance of Concannon
A lot done. More to do.
Galway need fresh blood in the mix to keep them in contention.
Concannon has been there or thereabouts for a few years now. Needs to make the step up and consistently.
TJ is the best hurler out there at the minute IMO.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2019, 10:27:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2019, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 12, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Canning is just too good not to make an impact however he plays, even fitness issues not withstanding. Absolute hurling system.
Reid is also superb, though I would maybe posit not quite as consistent as Canning. Was hot and cold in last year's c'ship a bit, didn't score from play in Salthill for e.g. His performance last Sunday was incredible, surely as good as he's given for KK.
They tried out a wide range of players during the League.
The reliance on the same players was a focus over the winter.
TJ is great as long as he doesn't get injured. Galway have a better spread of scorers
Concannon and Loftus were minors in 2015 afaik.
Even if he was just taking frees..
The goals were very pleasing as was the performance of Concannon
A lot done. More to do.
Galway need fresh blood in the mix to keep them in contention.
Concannon has been there or thereabouts for a few years now. Needs to make the step up and consistently.
TJ is the best hurler out there at the minute IMO.
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2019, 11:24:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2019, 10:27:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2019, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 12, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Canning is just too good not to make an impact however he plays, even fitness issues not withstanding. Absolute hurling system.
Reid is also superb, though I would maybe posit not quite as consistent as Canning. Was hot and cold in last year's c'ship a bit, didn't score from play in Salthill for e.g. His performance last Sunday was incredible, surely as good as he's given for KK.
They tried out a wide range of players during the League.
The reliance on the same players was a focus over the winter.
TJ is great as long as he doesn't get injured. Galway have a better spread of scorers
Concannon and Loftus were minors in 2015 afaik.
Even if he was just taking frees..
The goals were very pleasing as was the performance of Concannon
A lot done. More to do.
Galway need fresh blood in the mix to keep them in contention.
Concannon has been there or thereabouts for a few years now. Needs to make the step up and consistently.
TJ is the best hurler out there at the minute IMO.
Early 20's then, should be ready to deliver then.
Other than Loftus and Concannon and the usual suspects like Davy Glennon, the Galway bench doesn't offer much thereafter in terms of new blood come championship.
There were a few new names in the league, but no gametime as yet.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 13, 2019, 09:24:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2019, 11:24:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 12, 2019, 10:27:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2019, 04:26:40 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 12, 2019, 12:40:32 AM
Canning is just too good not to make an impact however he plays, even fitness issues not withstanding. Absolute hurling system.
Reid is also superb, though I would maybe posit not quite as consistent as Canning. Was hot and cold in last year's c'ship a bit, didn't score from play in Salthill for e.g. His performance last Sunday was incredible, surely as good as he's given for KK.
They tried out a wide range of players during the League.
The reliance on the same players was a focus over the winter.
TJ is great as long as he doesn't get injured. Galway have a better spread of scorers
Concannon and Loftus were minors in 2015 afaik.
Even if he was just taking frees..
The goals were very pleasing as was the performance of Concannon
A lot done. More to do.
Galway need fresh blood in the mix to keep them in contention.
Concannon has been there or thereabouts for a few years now. Needs to make the step up and consistently.
TJ is the best hurler out there at the minute IMO.
Early 20's then, should be ready to deliver then.
Other than Loftus and Concannon and the usual suspects like Davy Glennon, the Galway bench doesn't offer much thereafter in terms of new blood come championship.
There were a few new names in the league, but no gametime as yet.
2.2 GALWAY: C Callanan; D Morrissey, J Fitzpatrick, S Kilduff (0-2); G Lally, P Mannion, A Harte (0-1); J Coen (0-2), S Loftus (0-1); C Mannion (0-1), J Canning (0-10, eight frees), J Flynn; T Monaghan (0-2), B Concannon (0-1), D Glennon.
Subs: S Bleahene for Glennon (inj, 10 mins); S Linnane for Lally (h/t); R O'Meara for Monaghan (65).
16.2 GALWAY: 1 F Flannery, 2 J Grealish, 3 R Burke, 4 A Harte (0-1); 5 K Hussey, 6 P Mannion, 7 G McInerney; 8 C Mannion (0-4), 9 S Loftus (0-1); 10 N Burke (0-1), 11 J Canning (0-8 frees), 23 C Whelan (0-1); 12 S Bleahene (0-2), 15 D Glennon (0-1), 14 J Glynn (0-1).
Substitutes: 22 T Monaghan for D Glennon (56 mins inj), 19 P Killeen for 5 K Hussey (67 mins), 26 K Cooney for 14 J Flynn (69 mins), 21 S Kilduff for 9 S Loftus (72 mins), 24 J Mannion for 12 S Bleahene (72 mins).
23.2 GALWAY: J Skehill; S Linnane, P Killeen, D Morrissey; J Hanbury, G McInerney, J Fitzpatrick; S Loftus (0-1), S Kilduff (0-1); N Burke (0-1), B Concannon (1-1), K Cooney; C Whelan (1-2, one free), J Flynn (0-13, eight frees, four 65s), R O'Meara.
10.3 GALWAY: F Flannery; J Grealish, R Burke, A Harte; K Hussey, P Mannion, G McInerney; C Mannion, S Loftus; J Canning (0-7, six frees), C Whelan (0-2), N Burke (0-3); D Glennon, J Flynn (1-1), B Concannon (1-0).
Subs: S Bleahene for Flynn (53 mins), S Linnane for C Mannion (55 mins), P Killen for Grealish (64 mins), S Kilduff for Linnane (69 mins, inj), J Hanbury for Burke (73 mins).
12.5 Galway: C Callanan; J Grealish (0-1), R Burke, A Harte; P Mannion (0-1), G McInerney, K Hussey; C Mannion (0-3), D Burke (0-1); N Burke (0-6 0-6f), J Flynn (0-3), B Concannon (0-1); C Whelan (0-4), C Cooney (1-3), D Glennon (0-1). Subs: J Coen for Glennon (50 mins), Paul Killen for R Burke (54), J Hanbury for Hussey (54), S Loftus for Grealish (67). Yellow cards: C Mannion
2.6 GALWAY: 1 C Callanan; 5 P Mannion, 3 D Burke, 4 A Harte; 18 S Loftus, 6 G McInerney, 24 J Cooney; 8 J Coen, 9 D Burke (0-1); 10 C Mannion (0-1), 11 N Burke (0-4, three frees, one 65), 12 J Flynn (0-6, three frees, one 65), 14 C Cooney (0-1), 13 C Whelan (0-3), 15 B Concannon.
Subs: 25 J Glynn for 11 N Burke (42 mins), 7 J Hussey for 8 J Coen (51), 21 J Hanbury for 24 J Cooney (60), 23 D Glennon for 15 B Concannon (66).
9.6 GALWAY: 1. C Callanan; 4. A Harte, 3. Daithí Burke, 2. J Hanbury; 5. P Mannion, 6. G McInerney, 7. J Cooney; 8. S Loftus, 9. David Burke (0-1); 12. A Tuohey (0-2), 11. J Glynn (0-1), 10. C Mannion (0-8, one free); 13. C Whelan (1-2), 14. J Flynn (0-3, two frees), 15. B Concannon (1-2).
Subs: 21. J Coen (1-1) for Loftus (half-time), 23. D Glennon for Tuohey (59 mins), 24. N Burke for Concannon (64 mins).
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-battle-lines-drawn-ahead-of-hurling-s-d-day-1.3924777
Jackie Tyrrell: Battle lines drawn ahead of hurling's D-Day
Kilkenny under no illusions about scale of the challenge facing them at Wexford Park
Wexford versus Kilkenny in 2017 – Wexford Park is without doubt the most hostile environment I have ever played in. The Wexford fans have the ability to create a real noise level, an eerie vibe to the place. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Wexford versus Kilkenny in 2017 – Wexford Park is without doubt the most hostile environment I have ever played in. The Wexford fans have the ability to create a real noise level, an eerie vibe to the place. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
There's a bit of a World War II feel about the hurling championship, with battle being waged on two fronts – Eastern (Leinster) and Southern (Munster). If that's the case, then we're heading into D-Day this weekend, for the battles that will decide the direction the rest of the summer takes. Every game is important, none more so that when Kilkenny go to Wexford.
Wexford Park is without doubt the most hostile environment I have ever played in. The Wexford fans have the ability to create a real noise level, an eerie vibe to the place. There's a tribal war feel to the stadium that makes you feel uneasy as soon as you set foot in the place.
It's like they're saying, 'Hey, this is our house and we will protect it with everything we have'. Anytime I went there, I always felt like a young lad robbing an orchard, looking over your shoulder waiting for a farmer to chase you out the gate with a pocketful of apples. You never felt comfortable, you were always on edge.
Wexford dominated at Leinster under-21 level in the early and middle part of this decade and these players have filtered through to the senior ranks
I never liked going there. Normally, the only nice thing from days going to Wexford Park was the steak in the Ferrycarrig Hotel after the game. Beautiful county, great spot to visit, lovely people. But a brutal place to go and hurl.
We played down there in an under-21 Leinster final in 2001 and they beat us that day, 0-10 to 1-5. They sensed it from early on that there was blood to be got here – it was potentially a big scalp for them and like good assassins they took it. When the game finished, they ran through us like we didn't exist – this is the supporters I'm talking about! They flooded the field after the final whistle and claimed it.
They had been down for a few years and had taken a few beatings from Kilkenny. This was payback. You could see the sense of relief in them as they let all that built-up hurt out and let a few of us know about it along the way. I admired that from them. It was not a pleasant place to go.
Which is exactly how it should be. Wexford supporters are one of the most passionate set of hurling fans I've witnessed. They make their voices heard and it takes very little for them to get excited. All you have to do is look at the Leinster final crowds over the past few years – 29,000 in 2016, then 60,000 in 2017 and back to 40,000 last year. No prizes for guessing which year Wexford were there.
But it has levelled out now. Wexford dominated at Leinster under-21 level in the early and middle part of this decade and these players have filtered through to the senior ranks. They've clawed Kilkenny back to the pack and have made this a really tight rivalry. The O'Connors, Liam Ryan, Conor McDonald and Lee Chin now make up such a strong backbone. They've grown up beating Kilkenny and there is no emotional hang-up in the fixture for them.
Clean possessions
More than that, they love it when Kilkenny come to town. The atmosphere down there on Saturday night will be buzzing because they know they have every chance of a win. Their mouths will be watering and it won't be for the local strawberries – it will be the thoughts of getting their teeth into Kilkenny.
And there's plenty for them to get their teeth into. I wrote here last week of the concerns about Kilkenny's overreliance on TJ Reid and that holds even more weight after the Galway game. TJ has taken his game to a level that's not even on planet Earth anymore. It's only where the elite can survive.
When players of the calibre of Padraic Mannion and Gearóid McInerney can't hinder TJs influence, then you know you're operating at a different stratosphere. It reminded me of Henry Shefflin in the drawn 2012 All-Ireland final against Galway when he was in a place where nothing could curtail him. He was everywhere the action was and his influence over the game was unstoppable.
Leave aside his scoring figures, which are unprecedented obviously. Think about this on top of them – TJ caught nine clean possessions on Sunday. Nine! In a single game. You will see a lot of interesting stats and figures over this summer but I'm saying here and now that nine catches in a game will not be beaten or even threatened. I don't think I caught nine balls in 14 years playing for Kilkenny.
There have been subtle changes to Wexford since they turned Kilkenny over down there in 2017. Shaun Murphy isn't the sweeper any more – Kevin Foley is now the nominated spare man and he offers more forward-thinking ideas and options. They still do a lot of their attacking from deep rather than keeping men forward and getting the ball into them. But when they push forward at the correct times, picking scores and creating overlaps, they are dangerous.
Structurally, they like to push up man-on-man for puck outs, particularly when they play with the breeze at their back and are putting the squeeze on teams. Rory O'Connor has offered a real goal threat to an attack that, for all its honesty and work-rate, lacked that X factor. Liam Óg McGovern offers a different dynamic since he came back from his injury and he's a quality finisher with real pace.
So how do they set about Kilkenny? Just like it was for Galway, TJ has to be the starting point for Davy Fitz and Wexford here. The big complicating factor is the availability of Walter Walsh. It's no accident that TJ caught nine balls when Walter was sitting in the stand. On another day, with the pair of them there, Darren Brennan would have been aiming at least half his puck-outs at Wally.
When Kilkenny are in a corner and backs are to the wall, they go back to what they know best. Dogs of war hurling, fight for every inch
So if Brian Cody can get him on the pitch, he will. Wally's physicality in the middle third as he drops into midfield is so important for Kilkenny. He fills pockets of space in front of the Kilkenny half-back line and offers them a security blanket. That's before he does any attacking, which they need from him even more.
The reason he complicates things for Wexford is that anytime the teams meet, Matthew O'Hanlon picks him up. They are well matched physically and know each other well from their school days together. They more or less cancel each other out, getting into a wrestling match and hammering into each other like giants, taking blows that would level anyone else on the field and still coming back for more.
A conundrum
What's important with this is that O'Hanlon generally picks up the opposition's key forward, the bread winner who will win puck-outs, fight for scraps, get on breaking ball and give the team oxygen to breathe. The likes of Joe Canning of Galway, John Conlon, Séamus Harnedy are always on the menu for O'Hanlon.
But if Wally and TJ are both playing, it gives Davy a conundrum. What's the best match-up? TJ is the main man but if O'Hanlon goes on him, what do they do with Wally? The only other Wexford defender with the height and physicality for the job is Liam Ryan but I can't see Davy moving him out from the edge of the square. So Wexford are left with the same big question Galway faced last week – who has the defensive instincts, the pace and grit to try and stop TJ Reid?
Look at the Leinster final crowds over the past few years – 29,000 in 2016, then 60,000 in 2017 and back to 40,000 last year. No prizes for guessing which year Wexford were there. Photograph: Donall Farmer/Inpho
This is so nicely poised to be a belter – maybe not necessarily in quality but definitely in tension, atmosphere and drama. When Kilkenny are in a corner and backs are to the wall, they go back to what they know best. Dogs of war hurling, fight for every inch. There'll be nothing mysterious getting off the Kilkenny bus in Wexford Park.
Wexford will match them but I just about see Kilkenny finding a way through. It's D-Day for both and Wexford Park is Normandy. Let battle commence.
Offaly relegated
They won't be sneering at Laois or Westmeath for a while
Galway gone!
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 15, 2019, 08:38:43 PM
Galway gone!
They were poor enough overall this year. Couldn't hurl consistently. Poor points difference .
Maybe a break and a new manager is what they need .
No where near good enough and other than last weekends win in Nowlan Park, we were well off for most of the year. Got what we deserved in the end. Well done to the Dubs.
Who got late red card in KK/Wexford?
If we win next Sunday in Nicky Rackard final we'll play Offaly next year!!!!
Sad to see Offaly drop another level. Hard to imagine even 10 years ago. Meath hopefully moving up a level next week if we can claim another Ring Cup.
Galway poor this year but I thought they'd turned a corner last week. Outfought today. Interesting to see how far Dublin can go.
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 15, 2019, 08:59:22 PM
Who got late red card in KK/Wexford?
If we win next Sunday in Nicky Rackard final we'll play Offaly next year!!!!
That's actually crazy when you think about it. Are ye in Croke Park the same day as the Joe Mcdonagh Final?
Quote from: laoislad on June 15, 2019, 09:14:52 PM
Quote from: thejuice on June 15, 2019, 09:01:55 PM
Sad to see Offaly drop another level.
No it isn't.
To take satisfaction in someone's fall is not a good trait to have. What goes around comes around.
Missed match, how'd Joe do?
Quote from: laoislad on June 15, 2019, 09:16:13 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 15, 2019, 08:59:22 PM
Who got late red card in KK/Wexford?
If we win next Sunday in Nicky Rackard final we'll play Offaly next year!!!!
That's actually crazy when you think about it. Are ye in Croke Park the same day as the Joe Mcdonagh Final?
Ya, playing Armagh at 4pm. Hoping to make it but have to see how the week pans out....have a prior engagement that might mess me up.
Quote from: LooseCannon on June 15, 2019, 09:57:11 PM
Quote from: laoislad on June 15, 2019, 09:14:52 PM
Quote from: thejuice on June 15, 2019, 09:01:55 PM
Sad to see Offaly drop another level.
No it isn't.
To take satisfaction in someone's fall is not a good trait to have. What goes around comes around.
Yes, at least keep quiet about it.
Although Offaly often broke Laois hearts over the years - many, many times! - and it's always fantastic to beat them, there's no doubt that their fall from grace is not a pleasant sight. As LooseCannon implies, it could just as easily happen to Leix, so no gloating is necessary.
Great, intense game last night, Kilkenny v Wexford; the ref. seemed to let a lot go, and KK still managed to hold out despite TJ not being 'on fire'. Looking forward to the Leinster final.
Limerick were flash in the pan. Poor team. Tipp should push on in second half.
Limerick didn't start with their best team, they left some of their most important players on the bench. Tip I think played their best team. Tip won but look to have lost 2 of their players Bonner Maher and Cathal Barrett for the Munster final against Limerick.
Clare may feel a bit let down by what Limerick did but really have only themselves to blame for their poor performances against tip and Limerick.
Quote from: laoislad on June 15, 2019, 09:16:13 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 15, 2019, 08:59:22 PM
Who got late red card in KK/Wexford?
If we win next Sunday in Nicky Rackard final we'll play Offaly next year!!!!
That's actually crazy when you think about it. Are ye in Croke Park the same day as the Joe Mcdonagh Final?
No the MacDonagh final is on before the Leinster final, ours is with the Ring/Meagher finals next Saturday as Seanie said.
Is O Hanlon gone for the leinster final for the two yellow cards/red card? Is that an automatic one game ban?
Quote from: Capt Pat on June 16, 2019, 10:21:00 PM
Is O Hanlon gone for the leinster final for the two yellow cards/red card? Is that an automatic one game ban?
Free to play unless has been sent off in last 48 weeks.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on June 16, 2019, 07:52:42 PM
Quote from: laoislad on June 15, 2019, 09:16:13 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 15, 2019, 08:59:22 PM
Who got late red card in KK/Wexford?
If we win next Sunday in Nicky Rackard final we'll play Offaly next year!!!!
That's actually crazy when you think about it. Are ye in Croke Park the same day as the Joe Mcdonagh Final?
No the MacDonagh final is on before the Leinster final, ours is with the Ring/Meagher finals next Saturday as Seanie said.
Ya, wasn't concentrating. Knew there was a triple header of hurling finals on Saturday with our game at 4pm.
Galway lost once and are out of the championship
Limerick and Cork have lost twice and are still in the championship.
The positions in the Leinster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Carlow.
Clare beat Cork by 5 points in the championship meaning Clare are out and Cork are in.
Quote from: dec on June 17, 2019, 02:48:30 PM
Galway lost once and are out of the championship
Limerick and Cork have lost twice and are still in the championship.
The positions in the Leinster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Carlow.
Clare beat Cork by 5 points in the championship meaning Clare are out and Cork are in.
The positions in the Munster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Waterford.
Clare got walloped by Limerick and Tipp, they've no one to blame but themselves.
Galway had Wexford for the taking and failed to get the two points in a home game. No one to blame but themselves.
Everyone knows the rules of the competition before it begins.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2019, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: dec on June 17, 2019, 02:48:30 PM
Galway lost once and are out of the championship
Limerick and Cork have lost twice and are still in the championship.
The positions in the Leinster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Carlow.
Clare beat Cork by 5 points in the championship meaning Clare are out and Cork are in.
The positions in the Munster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Waterford.
Clare got walloped by Limerick and Tipp, they've no one to blame but themselves.
Galway had Wexford for the taking and failed to get the two points in a home game. No one to blame but themselves.
Everyone knows the rules of the competition before it begins.
That, more even than the modest win over Carlow was the downfall. Played a listless WX team off the field in the first half but didn't rack up the scores on the board, through missed frees, wides, over-elaboration etc. There's always a price you pay.
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 03:41:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 17, 2019, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: dec on June 17, 2019, 02:48:30 PM
Galway lost once and are out of the championship
Limerick and Cork have lost twice and are still in the championship.
The positions in the Leinster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Carlow.
Clare beat Cork by 5 points in the championship meaning Clare are out and Cork are in.
The positions in the Munster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Waterford.
Clare got walloped by Limerick and Tipp, they've no one to blame but themselves.
Galway had Wexford for the taking and failed to get the two points in a home game. No one to blame but themselves.
Everyone knows the rules of the competition before it begins.
That, more even than the modest win over Carlow was the downfall. Played a listless WX team off the field in the first half but didn't rack up the scores on the board, through missed frees, wides, over-elaboration etc. There's always a price you pay.
They were playing from memory this year. They really need a break.
A new lineout is the most likely. Which experience will be retained ?
Players like Glennon and Hanbury aren't going to be required.
There are few decent subs and you need more than the bare 15 in the new setup. Top 3 scorers were missing in the second half vs Dubs.
There is a nice conveyor belt of talent and for the first time in a generation there is winning experience to blend it with.
Minor wins in 2015, 2017, 2018
The future looks mighty
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
He probably won't stay longer than that. Someone else might
get more out of them.
A lot of players lost form this year. Even the leaders. I'd say they are knackered.
I think it has gone like the rugby in terms of team plus replacements
and injury planning. We were unlucky with injuries in 18 and 19. Or maybe naive...
Not easy to blood new players into a winning team but I wouldn't swap now for 2010
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2019, 06:32:39 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
He probably won't stay longer than that. Someone else might
get more out of them.
A lot of players lost form this year. Even the leaders. I'd say they are knackered.
I think it has gone like the rugby in terms of team plus replacements
and injury planning. We were unlucky with injuries in 18 and 19. Or maybe naive...
Not easy to blood new players into a winning team but I wouldn't swap now for 2010
How did KK do it year after year? - I know structure different this past fee years but KK were back year after year after year.
Leaders everywhere. Galway wouldn't be the same like that.
Quote from: marty34 on June 20, 2019, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2019, 06:32:39 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
He probably won't stay longer than that. Someone else might
get more out of them.
A lot of players lost form this year. Even the leaders. I'd say they are knackered.
I think it has gone like the rugby in terms of team plus replacements
and injury planning. We were unlucky with injuries in 18 and 19. Or maybe naive...
Not easy to blood new players into a winning team but I wouldn't swap now for 2010
How did KK do it year after year? - I know structure different this past fee years but KK were back year after year after year.
Kilkenny had a phenomenal group of hurlers and leaders and it's only now with the likes of Tommy Walsh, JJ Delaney and Jackie Littlewoods out in media circles that you release that these lads were far from the Stepford wives that Donal O'g would have led you to believe.
They drove each other on and that group dynamic was maintained and controlled by Cody who also freshened up his backroom staff every two or three years as he went.
You got to remember Tipp had a panel probably comparable in terms of natural skill but only fleetingly were able to match Kilkenny in the other facets of the game.
It's hard to see their likes again.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 20, 2019, 09:37:49 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 20, 2019, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2019, 06:32:39 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
He probably won't stay longer than that. Someone else might
get more out of them.
A lot of players lost form this year. Even the leaders. I'd say they are knackered.
I think it has gone like the rugby in terms of team plus replacements
and injury planning. We were unlucky with injuries in 18 and 19. Or maybe naive...
Not easy to blood new players into a winning team but I wouldn't swap now for 2010
How did KK do it year after year? - I know structure different this past fee years but KK were back year after year after year.
Kilkenny had a phenomenal group of hurlers and leaders and it's only now with the likes of Tommy Walsh, JJ Delaney and Jackie Littlewoods out in media circles that you release that these lads were far from the Stepford wives that Donal O'g would have led you to believe.
They drove each other on and that group dynamic was maintained and controlled by Cody who also freshened up his backroom staff every two or three years as he went.
You got to remember Tipp had a panel probably comparable in terms of natural skill but only fleetingly were able to match Kilkenny in the other facets of the game.
It's hard to see their likes again.
I'd imagine that's exactly what we are seeing in the Dublin Footballers. There are certainly parallels. A ruthless manager, a steady trickle of new talents, massive leadership examples and competition for places. And finally a ruthless streak that ensures they never take the boot off the throat when they could.
Quote from: marty34 on June 20, 2019, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2019, 06:32:39 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
He probably won't stay longer than that. Someone else might
get more out of them.
A lot of players lost form this year. Even the leaders. I'd say they are knackered.
I think it has gone like the rugby in terms of team plus replacements
and injury planning. We were unlucky with injuries in 18 and 19. Or maybe naive...
Not easy to blood new players into a winning team but I wouldn't swap now for 2010
How did KK do it year after year? - I know structure different this past fee years but KK were back year after year after year.
They had a very sophisticated machine and Cody could keep manufacturing hunger to win because of internal competition.
Cody didn't want a settled team. He wanted settled performance levels. Something like that
They wouldn't go mad after winning the all Ireland either.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-just-when-they-look-to-be-coming-dublin-freeze-1.3886531
"We went to Carton House ready to put in an animal weekend to get ready for it. You knew you'd be training twice and playing a match on the Saturday and you had to be prepared to kill for the jersey. Kill in a good way if such a thing exists – kill yourself in effort, kill the player you're marking with work-rate, kill the other team you play in the match on the Saturday with an unbreakable will and desire to win.
That game would be savage, nobody giving an inch because a strong performance could spring you into the team. Likewise, a sub-par performance and you could be off it, so Carton House could be a graveyard for players. Most of the time, the hurling wouldn't flow but that's when you knew it was really, really good.
Hungry packs
Players couldn't get away from each other. Backs couldn't get out past a wall formed by a hungry packs of forwards. They'd turn one way and get nailed, turn another and get nailed again. The ball was knocked out of their hand and the fight was on.
I often felt forwards got more of a kick out of turning backs over in those games than actually getting scores. I know Brian loved when it happened. Likewise when a forward got a ball, backs would swarm all over him like a rash, take the ball from him. Turnovers were as regular as the doctor running onto the pitch to treat a player – one every minute. But the game never stopped. Get another person in and play on. We loved it.
On top of everything, I shared a room with my clubmate Eoin Larkin. Eoin had his nose broken in a training match before and so he snored like a roaring dinosaur every minute of the night. Meaning I didn't sleep the best either. I wonder who broke his nose? Karma!"
Kilkenny had a conveyor belt of talent from minor and U21 teams
Plus Cody was excellent at spotting a lad who could do a job for him e.g. Fogarty who wouldn't have been highly regarded in the county
Cody was also ruthless with shedding lads no longer needed, eg Cha
Quote from: dec on June 17, 2019, 02:48:30 PM
Galway lost once and are out of the championship
Limerick and Cork have lost twice and are still in the championship.
The positions in the Leinster championship table were basically decided on who ran up the biggest score against Carlow.
Clare beat Cork by 5 points in the championship meaning Clare are out and Cork are in.
Not true...if you take the Carlow games out of consideration the order would be the exact same. All on 3 points, Kilkenny top with scoring difference of +4, Wexford second +0, Dublin third on -1 and Galway fourth at -3.
Even though the results are the same, wouldn't it be fairer to make a mini-league of the teams that are level where only the games between the three or more involved are considered?
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2019, 10:13:28 AM
Quote from: marty34 on June 20, 2019, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 20, 2019, 06:32:39 AM
Quote from: mouview on June 19, 2019, 10:36:31 PM
Rather harsh on Hanbury; struggled to get a run at the year and far from our worst performer. No great supporter of Glennon, but again, he's not been outrightly worse than some of the other off-form forwards.
Geoffrey Lynskey's progress with the U-20s will be eagerly anticipated, he should be in a good position to leverage those successful minor teams. However, I have a feeling Donohoe will stay on for another year, and it is speculated that there's antipathy between he and Lynskey, so how will the latter feel if he's preparing good players only for another to possibly reap the main rewards?
He probably won't stay longer than that. Someone else might
get more out of them.
A lot of players lost form this year. Even the leaders. I'd say they are knackered.
I think it has gone like the rugby in terms of team plus replacements
and injury planning. We were unlucky with injuries in 18 and 19. Or maybe naive...
Not easy to blood new players into a winning team but I wouldn't swap now for 2010
How did KK do it year after year? - I know structure different this past fee years but KK were back year after year after year.
They had a very sophisticated machine and Cody could keep manufacturing hunger to win because of internal competition.
Cody didn't want a settled team. He wanted settled performance levels. Something like that
They wouldn't go mad after winning the all Ireland either.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-just-when-they-look-to-be-coming-dublin-freeze-1.3886531
"We went to Carton House ready to put in an animal weekend to get ready for it. You knew you'd be training twice and playing a match on the Saturday and you had to be prepared to kill for the jersey. Kill in a good way if such a thing exists – kill yourself in effort, kill the player you're marking with work-rate, kill the other team you play in the match on the Saturday with an unbreakable will and desire to win.
That game would be savage, nobody giving an inch because a strong performance could spring you into the team. Likewise, a sub-par performance and you could be off it, so Carton House could be a graveyard for players. Most of the time, the hurling wouldn't flow but that's when you knew it was really, really good.
Hungry packs
Players couldn't get away from each other. Backs couldn't get out past a wall formed by a hungry packs of forwards. They'd turn one way and get nailed, turn another and get nailed again. The ball was knocked out of their hand and the fight was on.
I often felt forwards got more of a kick out of turning backs over in those games than actually getting scores. I know Brian loved when it happened. Likewise when a forward got a ball, backs would swarm all over him like a rash, take the ball from him. Turnovers were as regular as the doctor running onto the pitch to treat a player – one every minute. But the game never stopped. Get another person in and play on. We loved it.
On top of everything, I shared a room with my clubmate Eoin Larkin. Eoin had his nose broken in a training match before and so he snored like a roaring dinosaur every minute of the night. Meaning I didn't sleep the best either. I wonder who broke his nose? Karma!"
Correct - it was all about the settled spirt.
We'll never see a hurling team like them again. A perfect storm in terms of talent, courage and leadership.
Looking forward to the Christy Ring Cup tomorrow. Another final in 4 years. Hopefully we'll take a permanent place in the Joe McDonagh if we win and not drop again quickly. Meath hurling has come on so much in the last 20 years so it would be great to start seeing it bear fruit at county level.
1 Cup in the bag! 2 more up for grabs this weekend! Great win. Lads were excellent today especially Reagan. Need to step it up and stay in the JMCD next year.
Well done Meath, haven't kicked on from last win but coming to this level will be very manageable for them if they continue with their upward progression. Antrim will not be looking forward to that game
Don't from neath singing songs about insulting Buff Egan. Real lack of class. The man is one best hurling supporters in the country
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 22, 2019, 11:26:16 PM
Well done Meath, haven't kicked on from last win but coming to this level will be very manageable for them if they continue with their upward progression. Antrim will not be looking forward to that game
It's already our must win game next year.
The players remain the same but Tipp's mindset radically different since Sheedy's return
about 3 hours ago
Jackie Tyrrell
In any sport – and especially in hurling – six inches might seem like nothing. In a game where the ball can travel 100 yards in one go and lads can run for miles in the course of a game, what's six inches to anybody?
The straight answer is, it's a lot - when you have a game decided by a ghost goal like it was last year between Waterford and Tipperary, when the width of a post or the slip of a hand can change the course of a season. Christ, Tipp would have won the 2014 All-Ireland if Bubbles O'Dwyer's free had gone six inches to the left. Six inches is plenty.
But the longer you're in the game, the more you realise that the most important six inches are those that are between the ears. The mind dictates everything for players both on and off the field. How you prepare your mind for battle, how you train, how you think during the week of a big game, how you react to certain situations, when things go wrong and when they go right, your constant mindset. If the mind is right, the body will follow.
Inter-county hurling is a constant battle of the mind. It's always there, a companion in the car, in the office, on the couch, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. It's like a never-ending survey that you're always filling out, over and over. Everything you're doing on a day-to-day basis is connected to it one way or another.
It's a round-the-clock mindset. You're always asking yourself questions. What am I eating? When am I drinking? What have I to do today? How will this impact on my training and match preparation? When do I rest? Where do I rest? For how long? Nutrition. Down-time. Up-time. When to be ready for training. Everything questioned, everything answered.
I know looking back that my mindset was half mad at times, but I loved it. My first thought when I woke up most mornings was electric. Within less than a minute I had my day planned and sussed out. Questions firing though my brain as soon as I opened my eyes.
What day is today? Match day, training day or recovery day? What do I need to do today to improve? The one thing I never said to myself was 'I have done a good bit and I am not doing anything today'. I knew in myself that I was too restless for that. I'd have got nothing out of it.
So I always did something, even if it was as little as five minutes in the alley or getting a rub. It might have been something as small as 10 minutes of mental preparation or watching an opposing team's game from the previous weekend. I was always doing something, always moving forward, reassuring myself that I was improving and getting stronger every day, mentally and physically.
Some days the margins gained were tiny and hard to see, some days they were more tangible. There was an improvement to measure – a lower body fat percentage, a quicker 100 metres, a heavier weight on the bar. Or in training or a game, coming away knowing I had kept a good forward in check. Always moving forward.
Everything I've listed there was feeding into what sort of state my mind was in. That was the point of it. Always, always looking for an edge. And when you find it, look for another. The people who are better than you usually just looked harder than you did.
Same players
Throughout the summer so far, it's clear for everyone to see which group of players has been relentlessly going after that edge and pushing themselves every day. Tipperary are out in front of the pack, just 12 months after they were heading to the travel agents in early June. And the really interesting thing about them is that they're doing it with pretty much exactly the same players.
What does that tell you?
Okay, management can change, game plans can change, even your luck can change here and there. But when it's the same group of players with the same set of skills and the same level of experience, then the most significant change can only be in the six inches between the ears.
Tipp have one of the most skilful panels in the country, some of the best artists in the game and have had for a number of years. That has never been doubted or questioned. But watching them this year, I see them as the perfect example of how a strong, edgy and at times vicious mindset can change a team's fortunes.
These lads have two All-Irelands when they should have at least four
Specifically, Tipperary's fortunes. These lads have two All-Irelands when they should have at least four. The key failing behind their underachievement has been down to their mindset. The ability has always been there. The relentless search for an edge hasn't.
When Tipp win an All-Ireland, they win it well. They leave nobody in any doubt about how talented they are, about how far they are ahead of everybody when they're on their game. But in 2011 and 2017, they fell flat.
They hadn't the answers that were needed to win back-to-back. Why? They were beaten in games they shouldn't have been and they had players not reaching their potential. Why? They had internal issues, disciplinary problems, lads put off the panel, lads dropped for non-hurling reasons. Why?
Mindset, plain and simple. Not enough drive to keep the pace up for a second year in a row. Probably a bit of self-satisfaction too – we did it, we have nothing to prove, let's enjoy it. But that comes with a price and nobody knows it better than these Tipperary players.
I know from first-hand experience what it's like to play a Full Metal Jacket Tipperary and the difference when they're lacking that bit of an edge. It's like they have a split personality. Or maybe a split mentality.
When Tipperary are in the groove and playing scintillating hurling, it takes a fair team and animal to stop them. I don't think 15 Chuck Norrises would have stopped them in the 2016 All Ireland final. They were a team on a mission.
Biggest statement
That mission was to work like dogs in every play and for every ball. They knew they had the hurling ability for the scores to flow from that. Other times when you played them, you could tell they had days when they just fell back on their hurling and relied on it to get them through.
Which is understandable. When you're very good at anything in life, it's a lot more enjoyable just to do that. But it's a bit indulgent too. And on the days when they would do that, that's when they were vulnerable.
Nobody is calling them vulnerable this year. Not a hope. Even in the league, when plenty of results went against them, you only had to watch the work they were putting in. In their opening game of the league against Clare, Séamus Callanan scored 2-7 on his first night as team captain.
Séamus Callanan scores a goal against Clare. His ability has never been doubted but now the Tipperary captain is leading by example due to his relentless workrate. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
But more importantly, he chased back half the field at one stage to hook David McInerney. That to me was the biggest statement of the night. Everybody knows Seamie can score 2-7 on any given day. But if he's showing the rest of his teammates that the first and foremost thing he's going to do is work himself into the ground to get a hook on a ball, then straight away you're seeing a shift in mindset.
All the signs so far this year point to this team kicking everything up a gear as regards the intent they bring onto the pitch with them. Bubbles [John O'Dwyer] looking as trim as ever and willing to put the hard shift in at centre-forward – a place you couldn't dream of playing him before due to his lack of work rate – we haven't seen that before.
Cathal Barrett has returned to his All Star form at corner back – we haven't seen that in a few years. Before his injury, Bonner Maher's return to form as the most hard-running forward in the game, beating defenders at will and scoring – we hadn't seen that in a long while either.
All the signs that their mindset has returned to being angry and hungry for success. Central to all this is Liam Sheedy and how he has shaped his team and panel. Watch out for it in his interviews – every time he talks in public, the message is loud in clear. Work-rate. Application. Hard work.
This shift in mindset can't be done overnight like flicking a switch. If it could, Tipp would have done it mid-season when things were going wrong in other years. No, it's a slow grind. You have to work on it constantly. That's what I mean by saying it's a round-the-clock condition.
Repetitive messages
It's clear to me that consistent and repetitive messages from Sheedy have seeped into the Tipperary players' mindset in the months since he took charge.
They have moved now to a place where they are edgy and forceful in every exchange. Watch what they do off the ball. Watch how vigilant they are with each other, how they communicate with each other. Watch how many messages come in off the sideline through Maor Foirne Tommy Dunne and Maor Uisce Eamon O'Shea. Mindset, mindset, mindset.
Now think of them in other years. Games where they were lacklustre. Games where they got squeezed out of a tight finish. Games where they went through the motions. Games where they looked not fully clued in, not fit enough, not radiating that zeal for achieving their potential that you can see in them this year.
Tipperary should be in there fighting for All-Ireland titles every year. Of all counties, they shouldn't be one-year-up-three-years-down. Players like Noel McGrath, Paudie Maher and Brendan Maher always drag the best out of themselves but time is short in the inter-county game and they don't have years on their side.
You could say –'Well of course they're mad hungry this year, they don't have long to go'. But that was true last year too and they never looked like All-Ireland contenders. Whatever Sheedy has done with them, they look like a team genuinely intent on making up for lost time in 2019.
In my experience, that's when Tipperary are at their most dangerous.
Quote from: seafoid on June 28, 2019, 11:54:12 AM
The players remain the same but Tipp's mindset radically different since Sheedy's return
about 3 hours ago
Jackie Tyrrell
In any sport – and especially in hurling – six inches might seem like nothing. In a game where the ball can travel 100 yards in one go and lads can run for miles in the course of a game, what's six inches to anybody?
The straight answer is, it's a lot - when you have a game decided by a ghost goal like it was last year between Waterford and Tipperary, when the width of a post or the slip of a hand can change the course of a season. Christ, Tipp would have won the 2014 All-Ireland if Bubbles O'Dwyer's free had gone six inches to the left. Six inches is plenty.
But the longer you're in the game, the more you realise that the most important six inches are those that are between the ears. The mind dictates everything for players both on and off the field. How you prepare your mind for battle, how you train, how you think during the week of a big game, how you react to certain situations, when things go wrong and when they go right, your constant mindset. If the mind is right, the body will follow.
Inter-county hurling is a constant battle of the mind. It's always there, a companion in the car, in the office, on the couch, wherever you are, whatever you're doing. It's like a never-ending survey that you're always filling out, over and over. Everything you're doing on a day-to-day basis is connected to it one way or another.
It's a round-the-clock mindset. You're always asking yourself questions. What am I eating? When am I drinking? What have I to do today? How will this impact on my training and match preparation? When do I rest? Where do I rest? For how long? Nutrition. Down-time. Up-time. When to be ready for training. Everything questioned, everything answered.
I know looking back that my mindset was half mad at times, but I loved it. My first thought when I woke up most mornings was electric. Within less than a minute I had my day planned and sussed out. Questions firing though my brain as soon as I opened my eyes.
What day is today? Match day, training day or recovery day? What do I need to do today to improve? The one thing I never said to myself was 'I have done a good bit and I am not doing anything today'. I knew in myself that I was too restless for that. I'd have got nothing out of it.
So I always did something, even if it was as little as five minutes in the alley or getting a rub. It might have been something as small as 10 minutes of mental preparation or watching an opposing team's game from the previous weekend. I was always doing something, always moving forward, reassuring myself that I was improving and getting stronger every day, mentally and physically.
Some days the margins gained were tiny and hard to see, some days they were more tangible. There was an improvement to measure – a lower body fat percentage, a quicker 100 metres, a heavier weight on the bar. Or in training or a game, coming away knowing I had kept a good forward in check. Always moving forward.
Everything I've listed there was feeding into what sort of state my mind was in. That was the point of it. Always, always looking for an edge. And when you find it, look for another. The people who are better than you usually just looked harder than you did.
Same players
Throughout the summer so far, it's clear for everyone to see which group of players has been relentlessly going after that edge and pushing themselves every day. Tipperary are out in front of the pack, just 12 months after they were heading to the travel agents in early June. And the really interesting thing about them is that they're doing it with pretty much exactly the same players.
What does that tell you?
Okay, management can change, game plans can change, even your luck can change here and there. But when it's the same group of players with the same set of skills and the same level of experience, then the most significant change can only be in the six inches between the ears.
Tipp have one of the most skilful panels in the country, some of the best artists in the game and have had for a number of years. That has never been doubted or questioned. But watching them this year, I see them as the perfect example of how a strong, edgy and at times vicious mindset can change a team's fortunes.
These lads have two All-Irelands when they should have at least four
Specifically, Tipperary's fortunes. These lads have two All-Irelands when they should have at least four. The key failing behind their underachievement has been down to their mindset. The ability has always been there. The relentless search for an edge hasn't.
When Tipp win an All-Ireland, they win it well. They leave nobody in any doubt about how talented they are, about how far they are ahead of everybody when they're on their game. But in 2011 and 2017, they fell flat.
They hadn't the answers that were needed to win back-to-back. Why? They were beaten in games they shouldn't have been and they had players not reaching their potential. Why? They had internal issues, disciplinary problems, lads put off the panel, lads dropped for non-hurling reasons. Why?
Mindset, plain and simple. Not enough drive to keep the pace up for a second year in a row. Probably a bit of self-satisfaction too – we did it, we have nothing to prove, let's enjoy it. But that comes with a price and nobody knows it better than these Tipperary players.
I know from first-hand experience what it's like to play a Full Metal Jacket Tipperary and the difference when they're lacking that bit of an edge. It's like they have a split personality. Or maybe a split mentality.
When Tipperary are in the groove and playing scintillating hurling, it takes a fair team and animal to stop them. I don't think 15 Chuck Norrises would have stopped them in the 2016 All Ireland final. They were a team on a mission.
Biggest statement
That mission was to work like dogs in every play and for every ball. They knew they had the hurling ability for the scores to flow from that. Other times when you played them, you could tell they had days when they just fell back on their hurling and relied on it to get them through.
Which is understandable. When you're very good at anything in life, it's a lot more enjoyable just to do that. But it's a bit indulgent too. And on the days when they would do that, that's when they were vulnerable.
Nobody is calling them vulnerable this year. Not a hope. Even in the league, when plenty of results went against them, you only had to watch the work they were putting in. In their opening game of the league against Clare, Séamus Callanan scored 2-7 on his first night as team captain.
Séamus Callanan scores a goal against Clare. His ability has never been doubted but now the Tipperary captain is leading by example due to his relentless workrate. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
But more importantly, he chased back half the field at one stage to hook David McInerney. That to me was the biggest statement of the night. Everybody knows Seamie can score 2-7 on any given day. But if he's showing the rest of his teammates that the first and foremost thing he's going to do is work himself into the ground to get a hook on a ball, then straight away you're seeing a shift in mindset.
All the signs so far this year point to this team kicking everything up a gear as regards the intent they bring onto the pitch with them. Bubbles [John O'Dwyer] looking as trim as ever and willing to put the hard shift in at centre-forward – a place you couldn't dream of playing him before due to his lack of work rate – we haven't seen that before.
Cathal Barrett has returned to his All Star form at corner back – we haven't seen that in a few years. Before his injury, Bonner Maher's return to form as the most hard-running forward in the game, beating defenders at will and scoring – we hadn't seen that in a long while either.
All the signs that their mindset has returned to being angry and hungry for success. Central to all this is Liam Sheedy and how he has shaped his team and panel. Watch out for it in his interviews – every time he talks in public, the message is loud in clear. Work-rate. Application. Hard work.
This shift in mindset can't be done overnight like flicking a switch. If it could, Tipp would have done it mid-season when things were going wrong in other years. No, it's a slow grind. You have to work on it constantly. That's what I mean by saying it's a round-the-clock condition.
Repetitive messages
It's clear to me that consistent and repetitive messages from Sheedy have seeped into the Tipperary players' mindset in the months since he took charge.
They have moved now to a place where they are edgy and forceful in every exchange. Watch what they do off the ball. Watch how vigilant they are with each other, how they communicate with each other. Watch how many messages come in off the sideline through Maor Foirne Tommy Dunne and Maor Uisce Eamon O'Shea. Mindset, mindset, mindset.
Now think of them in other years. Games where they were lacklustre. Games where they got squeezed out of a tight finish. Games where they went through the motions. Games where they looked not fully clued in, not fit enough, not radiating that zeal for achieving their potential that you can see in them this year.
Tipperary should be in there fighting for All-Ireland titles every year. Of all counties, they shouldn't be one-year-up-three-years-down. Players like Noel McGrath, Paudie Maher and Brendan Maher always drag the best out of themselves but time is short in the inter-county game and they don't have years on their side.
You could say –'Well of course they're mad hungry this year, they don't have long to go'. But that was true last year too and they never looked like All-Ireland contenders. Whatever Sheedy has done with them, they look like a team genuinely intent on making up for lost time in 2019.
In my experience, that's when Tipperary are at their most dangerous.
A fair summation of Tipp
When Kilkenny were in their pomp,you were always guaranteed an 8/10 every day,with Tipp it could be either a 2 or a 10 out of 10.
They should have beaten KK in 09/14 and didn't turn up in 2011
I'll be very surprised if Tipp win on Sunday. I got the impression that Limerick had a fair few more gears to go, and Tipps forwards don't appreciate the tightness of defenders like Limerick. Also Bonner Maher is a serious loss, he looked back to his industrious best, and I'm not sure if Barret will play or not. I'm heading into it, but I expect the Treaty to prevail.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 28, 2019, 05:15:38 PM
I'll be very surprised if Tipp win on Sunday. I got the impression that Limerick had a fair few more gears to go, and Tipps forwards don't appreciate the tightness of defenders like Limerick. Also Bonner Maher is a serious loss, he looked back to his industrious best, and I'm not sure if Barret will play or not. I'm heading into it, but I expect the Treaty to prevail.
True. If the 2 of them aren't playing, Tipp are a lot weaker. Boonar was having a great season - chipping in with scores also. Barrett tight at the back. Maybe he'll be back for next game.
I agree. Limerick have a really good squad. Kiely not afraid to mix it up a bit to keep everybody on their toes. Plus they seem to be fresher because of it.
A strong bench is everything these days.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 28, 2019, 05:15:38 PM
I'll be very surprised if Tipp win on Sunday. I got the impression that Limerick had a fair few more gears to go, and Tipps forwards don't appreciate the tightness of defenders like Limerick. Also Bonner Maher is a serious loss, he looked back to his industrious best, and I'm not sure if Barret will play or not. I'm heading into it, but I expect the Treaty to prevail.
It's very hard to win back to back versus Tipp are flying but don't have that many subs. Bonner is a big loss.
I think Tipp might shade it this year if injuries don't banjax them.
Didn't see this margin of victory coming.
Difficult to see that Limerick team being beaten this year - that was one hell of a statement there today - Tipp couldn't match them physically and game was over as a contest with 15 to go.
Mick Mackey would be proud of them. He won 3 all Irelands
I'd really like to see quaide's save again which could have taken it back to three before limerick opened up. Looked like an amazing save but didn't see the replay of it.
Limerick very impressive though like as says Bonner Maher huge loss.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2019, 03:54:28 PM
I'd really like to see quaide's save again which could have taken it back to three before limerick opened up. Looked like an amazing save but didn't see the replay of it.
Limerick very impressive though like as says Bonner Maher huge loss.
Cane off his feet?
Lee Chin is the complete hurler
Mighty stuff from Limerick alright and will rightly be restored to favouritism but a word of caution is the fact that 9 of the last 12 Munster Champions haven't even reached the All Ireland Final
What was the ref at there? Stopping play to allow a substitution when a team is in possession.
Wohoo! Hup Wexford. Bring back pitch invasion!
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 30, 2019, 05:34:25 PM
What was the ref at there? Stopping play to allow a substitution when a team is in possession.
That was a weird one alright
Limerick were well deserving of their victory but I wonder how the game would have finished had Callanan finished off that goal opportunity. I think Callanan may have been slightly hooked before getting the shot away. Still would have been a Limerick win I think but maybe a lot closer.
The Wexford v Kilkenny game was a cracker with nothing between the sides for most of it. I thought Kilkenny started going for goal a bit too early at the end. You can get three scores very quickly and easily in a game of hurling.
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 30, 2019, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 30, 2019, 05:34:25 PM
What was the ref at there? Stopping play to allow a substitution when a team is in possession.
That was a weird one alright
Was a disgrace. The referee could have had a major impact on that game because of this balls up.
Limerick played in second gear against same team last time out! This was Limerick flexing their muscles, and still an extra gear in them. They'll be hard to stop after that, providing they don't get carried away with the hype they could do 2 in a row.
Wexford's best 15 can do very well but the bench isn't as good.
Quote from: nrico2006 on June 30, 2019, 05:34:25 PM
What was the ref at there? Stopping play to allow a substitution when a team is in possession.
Probably got the call from the fourth official and told the lads but they carried on, then called it back.
That full back for Kilkenny was some operator. Never heard of him before.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2019, 09:45:08 PM
That full back for Kilkenny was some operator. Never heard of him before.
First season with the cats, had a great game
Put manners in mcdonald a few times and he's no mug.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2019, 09:45:08 PM
That full back for Kilkenny was some operator. Never heard of him before.
Bad decision by the referee alright....at a crucial time also.
Yeah, Hugh L is a big unit and can hurl. This year will bring him on.
They should have clipped over the points at the end instead of goals.
Quote from: marty34 on June 30, 2019, 11:04:44 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2019, 09:45:08 PM
That full back for Kilkenny was some operator. Never heard of him before.
Bad decision by the referee alright....at a crucial time also.
Yeah, Hugh L is a big unit and can hurl. This year will bring him on.
They should have clipped over the points at the end instead of goals.
Very un Kilkenny like to lose composure like that.
With Davy battening down the hatches and with the hurlers Kilkenny have three points from out the field in 5 minutes is not uncommon in hurling.
Still good to see none of the big three without a cup to date, but I think it'll still be a Limerick Tipp final and all to play for.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2019, 03:54:28 PM
I'd really like to see quaide's save again which could have taken it back to three before limerick opened up. Looked like an amazing save but didn't see the replay of it.
Limerick very impressive though like as says Bonner Maher huge loss.
Cane off his feet?
Yeah, threw out a boot at it and got lucky. Still think Limerick would have won but the interest in the game would have lasted longer.
Very little quality ball into Callanan all day. Limerick hammered the hammer in Paudie Maher and Brendan Maher was too deep in on Guillaine to deliver ball.
Ger Hegarty and Kyle Hayes are two huge wrecking balls of men who can hurl and both showed Paudie Maher a clean pair of heels at separate times yesterday.
Hard to see who can put it up to them, but I think Tipp could be dangerous in a one off AI against them even after yesterday.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 01, 2019, 10:13:37 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 30, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 30, 2019, 03:54:28 PM
I'd really like to see quaide's save again which could have taken it back to three before limerick opened up. Looked like an amazing save but didn't see the replay of it.
Limerick very impressive though like as says Bonner Maher huge loss.
Cane off his feet?
Yeah, threw out a boot at it and got lucky. Still think Limerick would have won but the interest in the game would have lasted longer.
Very little quality ball into Callanan all day. Limerick hammered the hammer in Paudie Maher and Brendan Maher was too deep in on Guillaine to deliver ball.
Ger Hegarty and Kyle Hayes are two huge wrecking balls of men who can hurl and both showed Paudie Maher a clean pair of heels at separate times yesterday.
Hard to see who can put it up to them, but I think Tipp could be dangerous in a one off AI against them even after yesterday.
"Eamon O'Shea remarked some years ago that heavy defeats weren't as debilitating in hurling because on a given day an out-of-sorts team can take a disproportionate hiding."
Tipp can still improve if they get past the Dubs
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/nicky-english-joy-for-wexford-but-limerick-show-they-are-the-team-to-beat-1.3942400
Looking at the players lining up to meet President Higgins beforehand really brought home to me the sheer physical size of Limerick. It was a reminder of their power and physique. Tipperary aren't a small team by any means but they aren't in Limerick's category.
It was a huge occasion, as befits a Munster final, and Tipp and their supporters went into it in good form and with plenty of confidence that they could put it up to Limerick.
After a nervy start playing against the wind, Limerick quickly got to grips with Tipperary and the energy and power they showed in the rest of the first half were significant factors in wearing their opponents out after the break.
By half-time there was very little confidence left amongst the Tipp support that the form of the round-robin match two weeks ago could somehow reassert itself. The Limerick half backs were winning the ball at will and overall their tide was rising and got to a fairly high level.
Middle eight
They were overrunning Tipp in midfield. Cian Lynch was doing what he does best, running the show with awareness and vision. Will O'Donoghue was an able lieutenant and the Limerick middle eight established complete control.
I recall noting how well Tipperary looked in Cork on May 10th but the depth of the squad has been challenged by the injuries to Bonner Maher and Cathal Barrett. On this evidence the former's loss may turn out to be incalculable.
They don't have long to recover before the All-Ireland quarter-final and the lack of depth and age profile of the team will be a challenge.
The game has changed since they won the All-Ireland in 2016. That year's semi-final with Galway was a battle of the skies, hitting long ball up the field. Limerick play relentlessly through the lines and even if it doesn't always come off for them, they keep at it.
As well as their middle eight, they have the best full-back line in the game and bit by bit, every Limerick defender got on top. Séamus Callanan did his best for Tipp and got a good goal and nearly had a second but they were almost flattered by the final score.
But for the heroics of Brian Hogan in goal and Brendan Maher in front of him plus wides from Gearóid Hegarty and Aaron Gillane's miss in front of goal, the margin could have been a lot worse. It was unusual to see Tipp supporters so thin on the ground by the end of the game.
Significantly Peter Casey had a great game for Limerick. He had been touted for a while as their most dangerous forward but had been undermined by injury but he showed here that he's a serious player.
The provincial championships are over and we have new winners in both Leinster and Munster. The picture has changed nearly every week and for anyone conditioned by a traditional view of the hurling world, it can take getting used to.
Limerick are writing a new template for hurling. It's a response to modern circumstances, which have brought different structures and different demands with round-robin matches, rotation of players and peaking for the later weeks.
For Tipperary and Kilkenny, the only consolation is that the real hurling starts now. If the wounds can be bandaged and any degree of healing take place before the quarter-finals, they can revive themselves because it's all to play for.
After looking at the top eight teams left in the hurling championship on the rte website it occurs to me that Westmeath and Laois are still in it while Galway and Clare 2 much better teams are finished. Clare and Galway got squeezed out on scoring difference must now watch the 2 lesser teams waste opportunities to make progress that should belong to Clare and Galway imho.
Thems the rules.
They had their chances.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 01, 2019, 10:36:52 PM
After looking at the top eight teams left in the hurling championship on the rte website it occurs to me that Westmeath and Laois are still in it while Galway and Clare 2 much better teams are finished. Clare and Galway got squeezed out on scoring difference must now watch the 2 lesser teams waste opportunities to make progress that should belong to Clare and Galway imho.
Disagree.
Clare and Galway had four games each to secure a berth and failed to take them.
Laois and Westmeath earned the right to those preliminary rounds by virtue of their performances in the Joe McDonagh.
How else are these teams meant to develop or are you wanting to pull the drawbridge up even more for the top teams and deny the rest of the hurling counties a go at the top level?
Are the best teams left in the football or are some still there only due to a favourable draw?
Are Clare footballers better than Monaghan?
Galway were not good enough this year
They fell down on points difference v Carlow
And need new players
https://youtu.be/TvWm_Ogi4vU
Those two minor finals looked great at the weekend. I only caught them on tg4 earlier. That Wexford ff looks like an absolute flier and he wasn't even their best player. Limerick looked very strong too.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Those two minor finals looked great at the weekend. I only caught them on tg4 earlier. That Wexford ff looks like an absolute flier and he wasn't even their best player. Limerick looked very strong too.
I didn't get to see it but the Clare lads (Clare Hurlers forum) are giving out about their coach playing a sweeper and them behind.
Was it that silly looking?
Hard to tell with just highlights as you'd really just see the scores. I hope the sweepers don't creep into the underage hurling though. Bad enough at senior level lol.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2019, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Those two minor finals looked great at the weekend. I only caught them on tg4 earlier. That Wexford ff looks like an absolute flier and he wasn't even their best player. Limerick looked very strong too.
I didn't get to see it but the Clare lads (Clare Hurlers forum) are giving out about their coach playing a sweeper and them behind.
Was it that silly looking?
I was there, and yes, yes it was. And as with all these sweeper systems, the clever opposition left their best player as the free man, and he just hoovered ball up. Ludicrous stuff.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2019, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2019, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Those two minor finals looked great at the weekend. I only caught them on tg4 earlier. That Wexford ff looks like an absolute flier and he wasn't even their best player. Limerick looked very strong too.
I didn't get to see it but the Clare lads (Clare Hurlers forum) are giving out about their coach playing a sweeper and them behind.
Was it that silly looking?
I was there, and yes, yes it was. And as with all these sweeper systems, the clever opposition left their best player as the free man, and he just hoovered ball up. Ludicrous stuff.
On that sweeper system why not just put your free man or the stickiest man marker on their sweeper? And push up, I know it leaves a two man fullback or halfback situation, but I find when you do that they normally revert back to 15 on 15
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2019, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2019, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Those two minor finals looked great at the weekend. I only caught them on tg4 earlier. That Wexford ff looks like an absolute flier and he wasn't even their best player. Limerick looked very strong too.
I didn't get to see it but the Clare lads (Clare Hurlers forum) are giving out about their coach playing a sweeper and them behind.
Was it that silly looking?
I was there, and yes, yes it was. And as with all these sweeper systems, the clever opposition left their best player as the free man, and he just hoovered ball up. Ludicrous stuff.
On that sweeper system why not just put your free man or the stickiest man marker on their sweeper? And push up, I know it leaves a two man fullback or halfback situation, but I find when you do that they normally revert back to 15 on 15
I suppose the thought process is that you're just creating more crowding. If you use the ball well in hurling, you can bypass the sweeper if you are prepared for it.
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2019, 05:49:59 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on July 03, 2019, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2019, 09:29:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 02, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Those two minor finals looked great at the weekend. I only caught them on tg4 earlier. That Wexford ff looks like an absolute flier and he wasn't even their best player. Limerick looked very strong too.
I didn't get to see it but the Clare lads (Clare Hurlers forum) are giving out about their coach playing a sweeper and them behind.
Was it that silly looking?
I was there, and yes, yes it was. And as with all these sweeper systems, the clever opposition left their best player as the free man, and he just hoovered ball up. Ludicrous stuff.
On that sweeper system why not just put your free man or the stickiest man marker on their sweeper? And push up, I know it leaves a two man fullback or halfback situation, but I find when you do that they normally revert back to 15 on 15
I suppose the thought process is that you're just creating more crowding. If you use the ball well in hurling, you can bypass the sweeper if you are prepared for it.
You can but the team that's looking to employ it generally have trained on it and have a working system!
Quote from: johnnycool on July 02, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 01, 2019, 10:36:52 PM
After looking at the top eight teams left in the hurling championship on the rte website it occurs to me that Westmeath and Laois are still in it while Galway and Clare 2 much better teams are finished. Clare and Galway got squeezed out on scoring difference must now watch the 2 lesser teams waste opportunities to make progress that should belong to Clare and Galway imho.
Disagree.
Clare and Galway had four games each to secure a berth and failed to take them.
Laois and Westmeath earned the right to those preliminary rounds by virtue of their performances in the Joe McDonagh.
How else are these teams meant to develop or are you wanting to pull the drawbridge up even more for the top teams and deny the rest of the hurling counties a go at the top level?
Are the best teams left in the football or are some still there only due to a favourable draw?
Are Clare footballers better than Monaghan?
I just want a normal system where the weaker teams are eliminated first and the better teams are in it as long as possible. That is not too much to ask.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 03, 2019, 10:50:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 02, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 01, 2019, 10:36:52 PM
After looking at the top eight teams left in the hurling championship on the rte website it occurs to me that Westmeath and Laois are still in it while Galway and Clare 2 much better teams are finished. Clare and Galway got squeezed out on scoring difference must now watch the 2 lesser teams waste opportunities to make progress that should belong to Clare and Galway imho.
Disagree.
Clare and Galway had four games each to secure a berth and failed to take them.
Laois and Westmeath earned the right to those preliminary rounds by virtue of their performances in the Joe McDonagh.
How else are these teams meant to develop or are you wanting to pull the drawbridge up even more for the top teams and deny the rest of the hurling counties a go at the top level?
Are the best teams left in the football or are some still there only due to a favourable draw?
Are Clare footballers better than Monaghan?
I just want a normal system where the weaker teams are eliminated first and the better teams are in it as long as possible. That is not too much to ask.
Well then you're going to have to bin the Munster and Leinster championships and go for an open draw of some sorts probably seeded based on league standings.
Best of luck with that one.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-limerick-the-masters-of-timing-in-changed-landscape-1.3946920
Jackie Tyrrell: Limerick the masters of timing in changed landscape
I would have struggled with the idea of being 'rotated' and I wouldn't have been the only one
Jackie Tyrrell
We stood around in a circle, tightly-knit in Nowlan Park as the last of the baking summer's day sun beat down on us, a mixture of Vaseline and sweat dripping from lads' noses after a very brisk and intense Mick Dempsey warm-up.
Martin Fogarty would call out two teams and hand out the gear: one coloured training top was blue and one was green.
Sometimes it was an A versus B game and sometimes it was mixed up. In those days there was always a bit more time between championship fixtures. The farther out we were the more likely it was to be mixed. Psychologically, this was great.
The message going out was, "there's no team picked, lads" and everyone knew that Brian Cody liked to make changes so that would really fire fellas up.
Closer to the day they would become A v B selections and that got everyone nervous because you either had to defend your place or get the skates on if you were going to take it off someone else. You might be able to get away with being a bit off the pace at training in other counties but not here.
Brian would give us his last few instructions – what he was demanding from us in the session. It wasn't anything new but still we listened. "I want to see sheer dog-eat-dog stuff out here, fire, intensity – fight for every inch. It is you or him and jerseys are up for grabs," – the usual, we as we ran to our positions.
"We are playing three sets of 10 minutes," would be shouted as we broke from the circle but I often wondered who was actually timing it: the auld lad over in McGuinness's pub across from Nowlan Park, who was on the beer all day?
Whether I was marking Eddie Brennan, Richie Power orEoin Larkin they would love nothing more than to stick 2-2 down my throat in 30 minutes of training
Sometimes 10 minutes felt like four minutes and sometimes it felt like a life-time. However it went, the management team had the great ability of blowing up the match when we were always begging for more.
Always wanting another ball, another chance to prove yourself, another chance to settle a score. When it was heating up to boiling point, the haze was pierced by a shrill blast. The whistle was blown and that was it. They might be the only time the whistle was blown throughout that particular dog-fight so it was good to see that it worked!
You were left primed, ready for more, itching to get at another team and that was a great place to be. As a corner back, I might have hit the ball three or four times, so you would be savage for more.
There was a pride thing there as well. Whether I was marking Eddie Brennan, Richie Power or Eoin Larkin they would love nothing more than to stick 2-2 down my throat in 30 minutes of training. If they could do that, they would – and I'd be going home absolutely seething with myself.
There was always a feeling though that what you did off the ball was at least as important. It was great if some fella got 2-2 but do you know what – he could have been a corner forward converting handy chances? What about the lad who ran and took the belt and maybe turned the ball over? That's the kind of thing they'd focus in on.
Tip-toed
When it comes to timing and having a team ready Limerick have it down to a tee. Last year they tip-toed into third place in the Munster round robin, relatively quiet and unnoticed. In hindsight, from our corner, it worked a treat for them. I'm not sure if that route was intentional but it gave them a lovely run-in to attack the All-Ireland and attack it they did, with wins over Kilkenny, Cork and Galway.
They had not blown a gasket in the round robin. You would have to say that that their timing this year has again been impeccable. After a hiccup against Cork early on, they followed up with two good wins and then rested key players for the last game.
It's a different hurling landscape these days. It now takes seven or eight games to win an All-Ireland. We used to win them after half that number. I can understand John Kiely's point of view. You can't flog the horses, especially thoroughbreds.
It wasn't without risk because a bad loss to Tipperary in the round robin and it could prove to be poor judgment and worse, have implications for later on in the summer.
The Munster final was Limerick at their best – savage in pursuit of the ball and clinical and precise in using it. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Limerick had soft-pedalled into a Munster final. They were primed to assault Tipperary and blew them away. They were awesome in that second half. I loved their work-rate and physicality and how they let Tipperary know in no uncertain terms who the new kings of Munster were.
If I was to summarise the game in one incident, it was when Jake Morrisreceived the ball in the second half and Kyle Hayes hunted him down, buried him, turned over possession and picked out Cian Lynch for a super point. That was Limerick at their best – savage in pursuit of the ball and clinical and precise in using it.
You would have to give Kiely huge credit here. While everyone was stroking their chin wondering, which Limerick will turn up; can they turn it on and off just like that, one team came to play a Munster final and the other team was going to war.
Even earlier in the championship when they lost to Cork, there was nothing structurally wrong with them – no obvious damage to the team. It was more of a mindset issue. They weren't up for it.
They would have been thinking, "we probably started believing that we were in a better place than we were. We have to understand that every game is different and every team we play is different but we need to bring the same attitude, application and work rate.
"We didn't that day and we got caught but the next day? We reset our focus."
I know Limerick made a few changes but they played the game the same way, set up the same way and had the same puck-out strategy. They weren't suddenly experimenting with a new system and switching players all around the place.
Kiely will have told them, every day you go out there as All-Ireland champions and every team you play is going to be a few per cent more determined to beat you.
Limerick manager John Kiely is congratulated after his team's Munster final victory. Photograph: Morgan Treacy/Inpho
I have to say personally that I would have struggled with all of this rotation and going up and down gears. I know from hurling and playing with different lads that they would have almost needed, depended on that regularity and constant performance.
Tommy Walsh for instance, wanted to play every game – an Oireachtas Cup fixture in January in the muck and the rain, he was passionate and wanted to be out there. Larkin was the same. We always thought that the more games you played the less you had to train.
I remember in league games, particularly in the late 2000s when we were going really well and playing really well for 50, 55 minutes, against Tipp or Cork and coming off delighted with myself and sitting down and seeing, maybe John Dalton going in corner back and hurling very well for the 10 or 15 minutes – and thinking to myself, "s**t, I could be in trouble here for next week."
We always thought like that because Cody had us like that. Permanent anxiety.
So, yes, damn right I would have struggled. I can see the sense that this now is the format and I probably couldn't play every game but it wouldn't have been an easy adjustment.
Phony wars are started by certain results and fixtures. In the past it was foot to the floor stuff every day you turned on the engine but management teams now need to be aware that it could be five games in eight weeks and having a team primed for ignition at the right times is very hard.
Age profile
I wonder if Tipperary's age profile is a problem for them. Are older generations of players more resistant, like me, to the idea of rotation? For Tipp it could be at least as much to do with their panel strength now that they've shipped a couple of injuries but there looked to be tiredness there.
Noel McGrath, midway through the second half, was dropping balls that he'd normally be rising. He just wasn't quite as sharp or as relentless as he'd been in the round robin – maybe a five per cent drop-off but five per cent in that game against Lynch and Will O'Donoghue and you can forget it.
Pádraic Maher was another. Mentally when you are fatigued, you play a little more cagily and you don't run as much. Paudie was at centre back and the ball went over his head. Nine times out of 10 and he flies back to his 20m line but the 10th time?
Look at Peter Casey's goal in the first half. Where was Maher? Too far up the field and he just couldn't make it back to free up another defender to put pressure on Aaron Gillane and Casey. Small margins but put them together and they catch up with you.
Tipperary will regroup and come again in this All Ireland series. They will learn from Sunday and will need to get Cathal Barrett back to inject some pace into their back line, and push Brendan Maher back into the half back line. They also need to develop their panel and look to get some options from their bench. But Limerick are the front-runners and favourites after Sunday's demolition job.
On a separate note, my heart does go out to the Joe McDonagh finalists who have to play this weekend, after a hard-fought campaign.
Seven days is not enough time to come down from the high of it for Laois and for Westmeath to pick themselves up and go at it again. They have a shot at Cork and Dublin and 14 days would be ideal to recover and plan a major shot at these two.
If you look at the fixtures calendar the first weekend in May is available and I think the McDonagh Cup could start a week earlier and let Laois or whoever wins it have a couple of nights out to celebrate a great achievement before getting focused on the preliminary quarter-final.
Finally, it's mad to think there are only seven games left this year but they will tell some tale.
Jackie is probably right that in days of yore that Tipp team would have had more recovery between games and less games in general but now takes a bigger, younger panel and luck from injuries.
They've a bit of recovery to an AI semi-final but Bonner Maher is a huge loss and they've no one of a similar style to replace him.
I'd still give them a fighting chance if they get passed Dublin to turn over Wexford and get to the AI final.
Limerick look like different gravy but Cork could outpace them. I don't think Kilkenny's power game will cause Limerick many issues.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 05, 2019, 09:12:43 AM
Jackie is probably right that in days of yore that Tipp team would have had more recovery between games and less games in general but now takes a bigger, younger panel and luck from injuries.
They've a bit of recovery to an AI semi-final but Bonner Maher is a huge loss and they've no one of a similar style to replace him.
I'd still give them a fighting chance if they get passed Dublin to turn over Wexford and get to the AI final.
Limerick look like different gravy but Cork could outpace them. I don't think Kilkenny's power game will cause Limerick many issues.
If Tipp get to the final it's 70 minutes. Plus they can make a lot of progress between now and then.
Today will give us an idea as to what the difference is between Joe McDonagh and Liam McCarthy.
Dublin should win but I'd like to see a decent Laois team go at them
Not much between Dublin Wexford and Kilkenny. On paper they should win by a bit as kenny seems like a shrewd operator but Brennan has brought on Laois a lot too so could be tighter than we migh think. Still think Dublin by 5-10.
Be nice if Laois given at least an extra week after winning Joe McDonagh cup, time to celebrate, to recover & prepare. Hope they do themselves justice today.
Great half of hurling here in Portlaoise, a shame it's not in TV.
Laois playing some great stuff but its very hot here so I'm sure how much longer they can keep up this intensity.
HT
Laois 1-12
Dublin 0-10
Be good if Laois won this. Game should really be on tv.
Congrats Laois some win against the odds.
Holy Mother of God we've only gone and done it!
In shaking here. f**king brilliant.
Hon Laois 🔵⚪
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 03, 2019, 10:50:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 02, 2019, 10:26:10 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 01, 2019, 10:36:52 PM
After looking at the top eight teams left in the hurling championship on the rte website it occurs to me that Westmeath and Laois are still in it while Galway and Clare 2 much better teams are finished. Clare and Galway got squeezed out on scoring difference must now watch the 2 lesser teams waste opportunities to make progress that should belong to Clare and Galway imho.
Disagree.
Clare and Galway had four games each to secure a berth and failed to take them.
Laois and Westmeath earned the right to those preliminary rounds by virtue of their performances in the Joe McDonagh.
How else are these teams meant to develop or are you wanting to pull the drawbridge up even more for the top teams and deny the rest of the hurling counties a go at the top level?
Are the best teams left in the football or are some still there only due to a favourable draw?
Are Clare footballers better than Monaghan?
I just want a normal system where the weaker teams are eliminated first and the better teams are in it as long as possible. That is not too much to ask.
Wish granted
Dublin gone
It seems a very bizarre system that two Leinster teams who didn't even make the round robin can bypass the whole thing and make a quarter final. Surely it would make more sense that they would earn their right to qualify for the round robin through the joe McDonagh and then fight it out like everyone else. You'd feel bad for Carlow who's reward for making it to the round robin is getting dumped out early. Whereas Westmeath make the quarter final based on, not even winning, but being runners up in the Joe McDonagh. I'm all for promoting the sport in more counties, but this just seems like placing a handicap on teams for doing better.
I don't remember a better result ever for Laois hurlers.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 07, 2019, 06:14:28 PM
It seems a very bizarre system that two Leinster teams who didn't even make the round robin can bypass the whole thing and make a quarter final. Surely it would make more sense that they would earn their right to qualify for the round robin through the joe McDonagh and then fight it out like everyone else. You'd feel bad for Carlow who's reward for making it to the round robin is getting dumped out early. Whereas Westmeath make the quarter final based on, not even winning, but being runners up in the Joe McDonagh. I'm all for promoting the sport in more counties, but this just seems like placing a handicap on teams for doing better.
It would be very hard sequencing it though as the competitions nearly need to work in parallel. I think it's not too bad a system for what it is. Carlow still got more games at that level. I don't think the top brass ever would have expected this result.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 07, 2019, 06:14:57 PM
I don't remember a better result ever for Laois hurlers.
1915 maybe... ;)
Then they don't know their history
Dublin hurling teams have put in performances like this in the past.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam14 on July 07, 2019, 06:14:28 PM
It seems a very bizarre system that two Leinster teams who didn't even make the round robin can bypass the whole thing and make a quarter final. Surely it would make more sense that they would earn their right to qualify for the round robin through the joe McDonagh and then fight it out like everyone else. You'd feel bad for Carlow who's reward for making it to the round robin is getting dumped out early. Whereas Westmeath make the quarter final based on, not even winning, but being runners up in the Joe McDonagh. I'm all for promoting the sport in more counties, but this just seems like placing a handicap on teams for doing better.
Quarter finals are next weekend, Laois have earned the right by beating Dublin. Both Laois and Wastmeath made the 'eighth' finals.
They both earned the right to play today, the top brass thought they'd get hammered I'm sure but a bone was thrown to the Joe Mac cup teams. I'm sure we will see this change soon enough.
The system is fine, gives teams an opportunity to progress while still in the AI series. The most unfair area is that The bottom team in Leinster go down each year, there really should be a playoff with the bottom Munster team, but again an effort to protect the tradition counties.
P.S. fair play Laois, showed a lot of spirit today. Hope they can give Tipp a rattle now.
Quote from: Muck Savage on July 07, 2019, 06:39:11 PM
P.S. fair play Laois, showed a lot of spirit today. Hope they can give Tipp a rattle now.
Not sure if my blue and white heart could handle another match like today. ;)
Quote from: Muck Savage on July 07, 2019, 06:39:11 PM
P.S. fair play Laois, showed a lot of spirit today. Hope they can give Tipp a rattle now.
We're in bonus territory now, nothing to lose and all the pressure will be on Tipp. Can't see us beating them but it won't matter as this season has been a massive success what ever happens.
Pity that match wasn't on tv. Some result. The Queen will be on the Pimms tonight.
Buff Egan's SnapChat is better than any tv coverage :)
Great win for Laois, fair play
Laois answered my question, the difference was shown today. Eddie is a factor but this Laois team have a lot of leaders and players confident to take on teams and shoot, their intensity was needed. They need to bring that to the next game.
Dublin had they won would have went in to the 'next' game confident that they'd put it up to or beat Tipp. Eddie needs to instil that again
Having watched a few highlights of Westmeath Laois I think without killian Doyle Westmeath may have shipped a very heavy beating so Laois, this year, were probably quite a bit above the rest in the McDonagh cup.
A great win for Laois today making me look like an idiot in the process.
Well done Laois - super performance. Showed big heart after Dublin drew level with 10mins to go. They pushed on with 3 pts of their own: that showed serious character as they could have folded at that stage and said 'we've give it a rattle etc'.
Hope they can rest up this week and go again V Tipp next week-end.
Good discussion here...still a bit of tension seeping through. Tommy Walsh and Seán Óg Ó hAilpín discuss the KK/Cork rivalry from 2003-2009 or so on OTB.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Uo8uILgt_k
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/nicky-english-kilkenny-look-fine-tuned-while-tipp-still-off-key-1.3956539
Nicky English: Kilkenny look fine tuned while Tipp still off key
Greater intensity in Leinster championship vindicated as brittle Cork are shattered
Nicky English
Three teams came to Croke Park looking for some form of redemption and another on a lap of honour, which they duly achieved with flying colours, but only one of the others found what they wanted.
It has been a sub-plot of the championship as to how the provincial championships measure up to each other. I had come to the suspicion that although Leinster wasn't as aesthetically pleasing as Munster and certainly not in the same category as a score-fest, it had been tougher and more intense.
That was more or less vindicated by the first quarter-final between Kilkenny and Cork. At first it looked like Cork were more menacing and better at creating space for the likes of Darragh Fitzgibbon and Mark Coleman to get on the ball and there were red lights flashing inside with Patrick Horgan and Alan Cadogan unmarkable.
They made a great start but inevitably Kilkenny dug in and Cork had problems. The team missed goals by taking wrong options and ultimately undermined themselves by bad wides and poor decision making. Too many players were not playing well and Mark Ellis was under pressure even if Stephen McDonnell's hard work marking TJ Reid was a rare positive for them.
This was the strongest Kilkenny team of the championship and there was an expectation of improved performance based on the likely contributions of Cillian Buckley, Richie Hogan and Walter Walsh.
Physical presence
It didn't work out for Buckley, whose return from injury has been fitful, but Hogan took his goal well and looks to be coming back into form at just the right time and there was a huge contribution from Walsh when he came on for the second half and was able to use his physical presence to disrupt the Cork defence.
The second-half response of Kilkenny was emphatic and they destroyed the Cork re-starts. When Anthony Nash went short, he used Seán O'Donoghue, who got caught in possession and was turned over, and when he went long Kilkenny were eating the puck-outs.
They managed just one point in 20 minutes and then Horgan, unusually on the day, hit a desperately poor wide and the whole game looked as if it was over. It was to his credit that he ended up inspiring the Cork comeback but ultimately Kilkenny seized the day.
They were cynical when they had to be and knew how to battle whereas maybe we've seen this before from Cork – disappointing ends to the season in Croke Park. Conor Lehane was replace again on Sunday and when the chips were down, there was too much inconsistency across the team performance.
They were massively dependent on Horgan to pull them through and he gave a tour de force, in fairness to him, but on the day Kilkenny looked to be an improving force, with their injuries clearing up among experienced players.
This win was all the more impressive for the fact that TJ Reid wasn't expected to fight fires all around the place. He was well man-marked again, this time by Stephen McDonnell but whereas against Wexford when Matt O'Hanlon did well on him, he didn't have the support, this time he did and Brian Cody will be rightly pleased.
They've found the much sought-after redemption but more crucially they have momentum and while Limerick are still All-Ireland favourites, you know 100 per cent that they're in for a major battle against Kilkenny in the semi-final – at the very minimum.
Heroics
The second quarter-final was always going to be a difficult match for Tipperary. They were always expected to win and there had been a lot of love for Laois after their heroics the previous week.
More worrying from a Tipp perspective is the ever more pronounced lack of pattern to their play. They got the early couple of goals and looked like they should kick on from there but their problems were almost exacerbated in the second half after Laois lost a man.
At this stage there's a conflict of styles on the Tipperary side, really. They haven't embraced the demands of the short game, playing through the lines, as other teams – even Kilkenny to a certain extent – have because they should have been able to work the ball through from the puck-out.
They had a couple of spare men in defence and should have been able to build it from there but that wasn't happening. That's a key worry.
The second concern I'd have is the concession of frees, which was the Achilles heel of an otherwise strong display in Cork back in May. You could say that the referee was much too fussy and there's no doubt about that but at the same time, Tipperary are simply conceding too many frees. That's been a trend, regardless of the refereeing.
I didn't expect them to respond well to the defeat in Limerick because the lost momentum was always going to be a problem but I thought that there would be some signs of recovery. Instead many of the same players who under-performed in Limerick, didn't find anything better against Laois.
It's worth remarking on how hard Laois fought after three incredibly intense weeks. Ross King took his goal very well and Mark Kavanagh punished the Tipp indiscipline.
After a brilliant season under Eddie Brennan, the lap of honour was richly deserved.
Jackie Tyrrell: All-Ireland semi-final is the worst stage to lose at
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https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-all-ireland-semi-final-is-the-worst-stage-to-lose-at-1.3967488
Limerick won't beat Kilkenny unless they match their rivals' insatiable will to win
about 5 hours ago
Jackie Tyrrell
0
Wexford's Kevin Foley in action against Tipperary's Noel McGrath during the league. If Tipp can limit Foley's influence and keep his possessions under 10 to 12 they have a great chance. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho
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I always felt All-Ireland semi-finals were like when you were a young teenager, full of life and mischief as you walked up to a nightclub door and approached the bouncers, bursting with excitement about how the night would unfold. Suddenly the large hand of the bouncer would be shoved in your face at the door.
"Not tonight, son."
Disaster.
All-Ireland semi-finals feel like that because you arrive at them in hope rather than in expectation. You have earned nothing yet. Nobody owes you a place in an All-Ireland final and everything you've done up to that point counts for nothing. You're either getting through the door or you're not.
Losing the match was like getting refused because you had no ID. It was the biggest letdown and your world came crashing to a stop there and then. It was like you could see in the door of the nightclub and see your friends drinking away and having great fun without giving you a second's thought.
You could hear the music as the strobe lights spilled out the door onto your miserable face and you weren't taking part in any of it. You had convinced your parents to let you out, bought the nice new clobber and saved up the money. And it was all for nothing.
All-Ireland semi-finals are the worse stage to lose at. You're left in limbo having been so close. You head off into the winter with nothing to hold onto. Your year is over at the worst possible time, just when you're within touching distance of the thing you've been obsessed with for eight months. The what-ifs come from all sides of your mind and squat there until you can muster up the strength and energy to evict them.
I always said I'd prefer to be gone before a semi-final than to lose one. If your summer ends in a quarter-final or a qualifier, then you just weren't good enough that year.
You don't spend the winter wondering, you just knuckle down and bury it and promise yourself not to let it happen again. A semi-final defeat – unless you get a tanking – just leaves you wondering.
If you lose a final, well at least you got there. At least you made it to the day in the calendar that you had circled from the very start of pre-season. Any game can go any way on a given day so if you lose a final, well, that's sport. But a semi-final defeat is just oblivion, neither here nor there. It's the friend zone. You don't want to be in the friend zone.
Extra defender
The prize for the weekend's winners is a place on the steps of greatness, touching distance of the holy grail.
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• The life of Brian a litany of success at Kilkenny
• Katrina Wagstaff: From Russia with a love of GAA
So the prize this weekend is huge for the four teams involved. When I look deeply at the two games, I see a couple of completely different types of encounters.
Both games will involve a massive amount of preparation with a huge focus from management teams on tactics, hours of thought put into their teams, data on each stat, how each team will play, set-ups, match-ups, substitutes, shapes and all the rest of it. But to the naked eye, that tactical prep will be a lot more visible in the Wexford v Tipp game.
Laois probably did Tipperary a bit of a favour in setting up in a fairly similar way to how Wexford do. You could visibly see traces of how Tipperary will take on Wexford in parts of the Laois game. Laois deployed an extra defender and so Tipperary smartly used that game to explore the potential of a different type of sweeper in Brendan Maher.
Lee Chin: Wexford possess huge pace and athleticism in attack with Chin, Diarmuid O'Keeffe, Rory O'Connor, Liam Óg McGovern, Cathal Dunbar and Aidan Nolan from the bench. Photograph: Tommy Dickson/Inpho
They also allowed their two corner-backs Cathal Barrett and Alan Flynn to hunt down the withdrawn Laois attackers and to follow them out into the jungle that is the middle third. When they were out there, they weren't just marking their men – they were actually contesting breaking ball in that sector and feeding on scraps.
The norm would be to sit on their own 65 and wait for them to come back into the Tipperary half before engaging with them. It was aggressive from Tipperary but it shows the bravery and innovation they possess. It will be interesting to see do they put it into action now against Wexford, who will obviously be a step up from Laois.
Tipperary have seen this type of team before – Waterford, Wexford in the league – so they know what comes with the territory. They're not strangers to finding a way around a team playing with an extra defender. Go back to the 2016 Munster final and they actually played over Tadhg De Burca, rather than around him.
But they will need to heed the warning that there are more strings to this Wexford team's bow now. In year three of Davy's term, they are a better conditioned team than when he started. Their physicality was very evident in the Leinster final where they were strong in the tackle and made full use of the big men they have all over the pitch.
Electric pace
They go looking for work and at all times they want make the game into a physical encounter. On top of that, they only shot three wides all day against Kilkenny. That sort of accuracy is pretty much unheard of in a high-stakes, nip-and-tuck game like that.
They vary their puck-outs, going short and running through the lines, going mid-range to Diarmuid O'Keeffe and Shaun Murphy and going long to catching targets like Lee Chin and Conor McDonald.
They biggest area of opportunity Wexford can use is the electric pace they have in abundance from midfield up. They possess huge pace and athleticism in O'Keeffe, Chin, Rory O'Connor, Liam Óg McGovern, Cathal Dunbar and Aidan Nolan from the bench. With Kevin Foley deploying a deep lying position that offers up huge space in the Tipperary defence and one thing Croke Park does is expose any lack of pace. I know it only too well – I spent 14 years trying to escape this trap, fire-fighting against pacy corner-forwards.
So how should the Tipperary defenders deal with it? There are times when you have to roll the dice. You can be in a vulnerable position, with space all around you and feeling isolated but that's the time to be brave and push up on the forward's shoulder.
First to the ball is key, deny them clean primary possession. JJ Delaney had a pain in his ear from me barking at him – as soon as his foot stepped over our own 65 an alarm went off in my mind. Stop! Back! I wouldn't let him pass it and that had the same knock-on message to Michael Fennelly in front of him and Eoin Larkin as well. It meant you played and defended as a unit.
There will be times when it's one-on-one and the Tipperary defence need to be brave
I was never offered the luxury of an extra defender beside me but I didn't want it. I was brought up in a culture of testing your defensive skills and instincts to cope with the best attackers. I felt an easy option was an extra defender and that you weren't using all the coaching and time and effort invested in you as a player. It was a vote of no confidence in you as a defender.
Wexford will give Tipperary an extra defender and it will be a security blanket for plenty of the game. But there will be times when it's one-on-one and the Tipperary defence need to be brave, play on the front foot and play as a unit, covering for each other. If they limit Kevin Foley's influence and keep his possessions under 10 to 12 they have a great chance. For Wexford, hitting three wides is a hugely impressive stat but replicating it is even harder.
The trenches
With Limerick and Kilkenny, the various tactical manoeuvrings won't be as evident but they're still crucial. The devil will be in the detail. Both teams will have deep-lying half-forward lines that will practically mark each other across the middle of Croke Park.
That space between the 65s will be totally compressed, bodies upon bodies. And that's where the game will be won and lost. Covering each other's half-back lines, so they can drop off deep and cut off the channels to the two inside forwards on either side. A game of possession and distribution, dictated by who wins in the trenches around the middle.
Kyle Hayes. Himself and Gearóid Hegarty do a crucial job for Limerick with their imposing physicality and ball-winning around the crucial middle third. Photograph: Morgan Treacy/Inpho
The key players here for Limerick are Kyle Hayes and Gearóid Hegarty. They use their physicality so well in this area, getting in around the ball, winning it when the bodies are flying all around them and then, crucially, always being able to turn and find Declan Hannon, Diarmaid Byrnes or Cian Lynch in space to laser ball into Limerick's inside line.
Kilkenny have plenty of strong, physical players in this regard too but it's Hayes and Hegarty who generally dictate matters in around here. Kilkenny have to break even against them to have a chance. If they do, then the quality of ball going into Colin Fennelly and Richie Hogan in the full-forward line improves and Kilkenny's chances improve accordingly.
Kilkenny haven't lost an All-Ireland semi-final since 2005
Limerick probably have the edge on form, on consistency, on the momentum they're building as they go on collecting trophies. But Kilkenny haven't lost an All-Ireland semi-final since 2005. They've made the last four 10 times since then and always made the final. These are different players at different stages in their careers but they have that one constant – the man in charge and the effort he demands from them.
Kilkenny will die with their boots on. Limerick won't beat them unless they do the same.
Joe Quaid sacked by Westmeath. What's that about? They were a very good side. They have hardly sacked him just on the basis of not winning the McDonagh cup?
Quote from: seafoid on July 26, 2019, 10:55:23 AM
Jackie Tyrrell: All-Ireland semi-final is the worst stage to lose at
Subscriber only
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/jackie-tyrrell-all-ireland-semi-final-is-the-worst-stage-to-lose-at-1.3967488
Limerick won't beat Kilkenny unless they match their rivals' insatiable will to win
Kilkenny will die with their boots on. Limerick won't beat them unless they do the same.
I deleted the other crap, the above is the essential part and rings true for any big game!
Roll on Saturday , heart says Kilkenny head says Limerick. The other game is actually a toss of the coin
No finer sight in hurling than a fired up Kilkenny.
This is vintage KK ferociousness so far. Hard hitting, hunting in packs, everyone working their arses off. Excellent value for their lead so far.
I wonder can they keep it up. Limerick shell shocked here. Vintage Cody really.
TJ can engineer a free from almost any situation
Hogan and Donnelly really undermining KKs efforts up front.
How come Limerick have no sponsors on their jersey?
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 27, 2019, 06:35:12 PM
How come Limerick have no sponsors on their jersey?
McManus.
Brilliant stuff so far, Limerick looking a bit fresher at the end of that half.
Limerick doing well to just be three down here.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 06:41:57 PM
Limerick doing well to just be three down here.
Goal came at the right time. Hopefully they push on now and bate them Cats.
Fennelly with just the 11 steps that time
Amazing from KK, it just shows you if you leave something behind and off your game, Kilkenny will punish you !
Limerick would need to have a start like Kilkenny had otherwise the Cats will see it out, by the minimum
Hogan has off??
Limerick getting it easier to get frees I feel.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 27, 2019, 07:08:53 PM
Limerick getting it easier to get frees I feel.
TJ needs to get decapitated to win a free sometimes.
f**king hell what a goal.
What a game. One of the most brutally physical I've seen in a long time.
f**k it. They are going to be insufferable for the next 3 weeks.
Some game though.
Why the f**k is Dowling not on earlier or even starting?
Fair fucks to Kilkenny who did not give up, the work rate was ferocious
Savage game
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 07:37:23 PM
What a game. One of the most brutally physical I've seen in a long time.
Blood dripping off the number 4. Never even batted an eyelid.
Quote from: laoislad on July 27, 2019, 07:37:33 PM
f**k it. They are going to be insufferable for the next 3 weeks.
Some game though.
Ref rode Kilkenny today. Not a fan of them but they deserved that win today. As you say they amount of crap you will hear in the next few weeks will be unbearable. Hopefully Wexford win tomorrow and the media can focus on them
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 07:39:38 PM
Why the f**k is Dowling not on earlier or even starting?
Fair f**ks to Kilkenny who did not give up, the work rate was ferocious
Good point on Dowling. I thought the limerick manager was poor tactically.
Quote from: dublin7 on July 27, 2019, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 27, 2019, 07:37:33 PM
f**k it. They are going to be insufferable for the next 3 weeks.
Some game though.
Ref rode Kilkenny today. Not a fan of them but they deserved that win today. As you say they amount of crap you will hear in the next few weeks will be unbearable. Hopefully Wexford win tomorrow and the media can focus on them
I've a few brother in laws and most of my friends are from Kilkenny, shower of bastards are already texting me.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 07:41:27 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 07:39:38 PM
Why the f**k is Dowling not on earlier or even starting?
Fair f**ks to Kilkenny who did not give up, the work rate was ferocious
Good point on Dowling. I thought the limerick manager was poor tactically.
If you're not active for 4 weeks you've got to prepare for it, the Cats strode into finals every year on the back of 4 weeks off after winning the Leinster championship.
Limerick looked lethargic earlier doors and tbf most teams that came up against that start from kk would be shell shocked also.
Dowling can't play 70 mins and hasn't been able to for years. Look at the size of him ffs.
He could do 20 minutes though.
Quote from: dublin7 on July 27, 2019, 07:41:15 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 27, 2019, 07:37:33 PM
f**k it. They are going to be insufferable for the next 3 weeks.
Some game though.
Ref rode Kilkenny today. Not a fan of them but they deserved that win today. As you say they amount of crap you will hear in the next few weeks will be unbearable. Hopefully Wexford win tomorrow and the media can focus on them
The ref made no difference to the score, count back the free count, pretty even I'd imagine and nothing of note, the penalty was harsh but still a penalty and the ref was 6/7 yards away
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 07:47:43 PM
Dowling can't play 70 mins and hasn't been able to for years. Look at the size of him ffs.
He's in a lot better shape than before.
Buckley should have been sent off for his elbow in the neck, not sure he touched the ball on sideline.
Buckley definitely touched that based on the replay but would love to see whether it should have been a Limerick ball in the guest place. Murphy was trying to clear it and the Limerick lads ran into him, not sure how it could have just been thrown out of play by Murphy.
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 07:54:12 PM
Buckley definitely touched that based on the replay but would love to see whether it should have been a Limerick ball in the guest place. Murphy was trying to clear it and the Limerick lads ran into him, not sure how it could have just been thrown out of play by Murphy.
Watch it again? He threw the ball up to hit it and it went over the line
Have you seen replay? I only saw it live. If so fair enough but would like to see a replay.
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 08:00:58 PM
Have you seen replay? I only saw it live. If so fair enough but would like to see a replay.
Watched it back, he threw it up on the line, didn't see touch, still struggling to see touch from Buckley, on fairness he should not have been on the pitch
Donal Og discounting the long lay off, but it was clear that it took Limerick a while to get up to full tilt. The quarter final stood to Kilkenny. Amazing game overall.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 08:00:58 PM
Have you seen replay? I only saw it live. If so fair enough but would like to see a replay.
Watched it back, he threw it up on the line, didn't see touch, still struggling to see touch from Buckley, on fairness he should not have been on the pitch
He shouldn't have been, but he was. Couple of Limerick lads could have walked for wrapping hurls around necks as well.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 07:39:38 PM
Why the f**k is Dowling not on earlier or even starting?
Fair f**ks to Kilkenny who did not give up, the work rate was ferocious
Think he's better as a sub but yeah probably should have been on earlier. First time I've ever seen a goal scored like that from that distance. One of the best finishes you'll ever see.
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 08:09:22 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 08:00:58 PM
Have you seen replay? I only saw it live. If so fair enough but would like to see a replay.
Watched it back, he threw it up on the line, didn't see touch, still struggling to see touch from Buckley, on fairness he should not have been on the pitch
He shouldn't have been, but he was. Couple of Limerick lads could have walked for wrapping hurls around necks as well.
Wrapping sticks around necks was happening by both teams and blown by ref.
Best team won regardless and looking forward till tomorrow and hopefully get ticket for final
I thought Buckley was lucky enough not to go with that elbow too.
Ah I don't think anyone could argue he was anything other than lucky. He wasn't great when he came on either.
The KK bench in general got to be a worry as they were very ineffective coming on, although Maher got the all important point with some lovely wrist-work. Thought Blanchfield should have been on ahead of Sheehan given the physical nature of the game.
Reid definitely MOTM (at this stage is his peak level higher than Shefflin's?) but thought Padraig Walsh ran him really close. He was immense.
I would give man of the match to TJ. That goal by Shane Dowling was special. Kk led the whole game from start to finish so deserved their victory. The work rate by both teams was phenomenal but Kk worked that wee bit more and that was the difference.
Kk fullback Lawler was that immense and they have unearthed a cracker
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 08:53:29 PM
Kk fullback Lawler was that immense and they have unearthed a cracker
Yeah he's their find of the year by a distance but didn't think today, in the first half at least, wasn't his best day. He'll have full back locked up for years to come.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 27, 2019, 06:52:54 PM
Fennelly with just the 11 steps that time
Crazy number of steps for the goal! KK deserving winners!
A couple of the Kk backs hit a lot of ball today and that was largely due to Limerick playing very deep. The amount of wides Limerick hit today would have been soul destroying for them. If they were more efficient they could have won that.
Limerick claim the last play of the game was a 65. I think the GAA should use senior inter County hurlers for umpiring games of this importance.
Thought Dónal Og's whinging about the 65 that wasn't and throwing the linesman under the bus was embarrassing. The deflection was small, there's no video replay in the game, MR2 has seen it a couple of times and still doesn't think out came off Buckley's hurl. The sliotar is a tiny object whizzing about an enormous field at massive speed. Things like that will get missed from time to time.
Kilkenny were probably the better team but on the flip side limerick had the chances to win it and made bad choices when it mattered. Also they remained too defensive.
TJ motm for me too. Yeah he is definitely up there with king Henry imo.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 08:29:06 PM
I thought Buckley was lucky enough not to go with that elbow too.
That should have been red. Deliberately threw the elbow into his head. Dirty cheap shot that hurlers seem to get away with.
Quote from: dublin7 on July 27, 2019, 10:06:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 08:29:06 PM
I thought Buckley was lucky enough not to go with that elbow too.
That should have been red. Deliberately threw the elbow into his head. Dirty cheap shot that hurlers seem to get away with.
Rubbish, the ref blew for a chest charge, didn't see the elbow. Had he seen it would have been a red
I don't think he was deliberately trying to elbow him rather than get the arm up to block him. Regardless, he elbowed him in the neck area. Should have been red.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 27, 2019, 10:32:19 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on July 27, 2019, 10:06:01 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 08:29:06 PM
I thought Buckley was lucky enough not to go with that elbow too.
That should have been red. Deliberately threw the elbow into his head. Dirty cheap shot that hurlers seem to get away with.
Rubbish, the ref blew for a chest charge, didn't see the elbow. Had he seen it would have been a red
Regardless of whether the ref seen it or not it was still a dirty cheap shot.
Limerick lost by a point after hitting 15 wides and will be sore about this defeat but you just have to credit Kilkenny with putting in a massive shift and riding their luck. Kilkenny just don't do lying down.
By the way Limerick were denied a 65 at the end of the match - the sliothar definitely hit off the Kilkenny man's hurl and went out.
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
Thought Dónal Og's whinging about the 65 that wasn't and throwing the linesman under the bus was embarrassing. The deflection was small, there's no video replay in the game, MR2 has seen it a couple of times and still doesn't think out came off Buckley's hurl. The sliotar is a tiny object whizzing about an enormous field at massive speed. Things like that will get missed from time to time.
+1
He is the most dour bollocks to ever sit on a studio panel.
I can recall after an absolutely cracking game years ago, and Michael Lyster asked him first for his opinion, he pissed and moaned about something or other, lyster was almost incredulous and finally cut him off.
Quote from: gallsman on July 27, 2019, 09:12:25 PM
Thought Dónal Og's whinging about the 65 that wasn't and throwing the linesman under the bus was embarrassing. The deflection was small, there's no video replay in the game, MR2 has seen it a couple of times and still doesn't think out came off Buckley's hurl. The sliotar is a tiny object whizzing about an enormous field at massive speed. Things like that will get missed from time to time.
If the same thing happened to Kilkenny, Cody would be bitching about it for years.
Tipp getting hard done by here.
Is a player now allowed to throw the sliothor in Hurling?
Pretty much.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 28, 2019, 04:15:46 PM
Tipp getting hard done by here.
Yep ref riding them somethings shocking, clown
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 28, 2019, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 28, 2019, 04:15:46 PM
Tipp getting hard done by here.
Yep ref riding them somethings shocking, clown
Just wonder what County the referee is from.
What was John McGrath at?
Game on here.
Tipp experience showing here. Wexford haven't a clue how to handle this.
Refereeing is an absolute joke
Ffs
Wexford killing themselves here
Michael Duignan is like a co-commentator from the 80's!
I think the ref will be a talking point after this ???
The ref is shocking pity the players and managers.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on July 28, 2019, 04:57:16 PM
Refereeing is an absolute joke
Totally agree, Tipp goal should have stood, plus he indicated a penalty.
Firstly, great game of hurling.
Tipperary looked to be a much fitter team. It looked like Wexford had 14 men and Tip had 15 in the latter stages of the game.
Tip were lucky not to have Heffernan sent off, he was lucky the ref missed the punch.
Brilliant, total admiration for the players on both sides. The disallowed goal in the first half just doesn't sit right with me. It would make more sense to retrospectively allow the point, and the goal stands.
Was at the game, was hoping for a Wexford win before the game but met the biggest w**ker I've ever encountered at a game, and I've met a load of Tyrone supporters, unfortunately he was wearing a Wexford jersey. Cracking game and glad Tipp won.
The world is back on its axis I suppose. Who predicted Tipp and Kilkenny again? Great weekends hurling
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 28, 2019, 05:53:22 PM
Was at the game, was hoping for a Wexford win before the game but met the biggest w**ker I've ever encountered at a game, and I've met a load of Tyrone supporters, unfortunately he was wearing a Wexford jersey. Cracking game and glad Tipp won.
He must have been bad. I was supporting Wexford purely on the basis of getting something different in the final but after their lack of reaction to going 5 points (and a man up) I hoped Tipp beat them.
Moronic stuff from John McGrath. Benny Dunne-esque. Could and should have seen straight red for it.
I've always said this ref is way above his station and that showed today, but the main calls were correct, he's got someone calling the shots regarding Hawkeye. He was told about the point over the bar but with the noise of supporters and everything else he brought it back, the decision was correct.
He probably blew early for the Tipp 'goal' and awarded a 21 yard free but the best team won over 70+ Minutes.
On the match, It was better than yesterday's, the level these amateurs take themselves too is unreal. The score rate was phenomenal. Nobody deserved to lose but the best team today won, the final will be (as someone mentioned) a return to the natural order, and Wexford and Limerick can't blame anyone else but themselves.
The final will be something else, think Cody would have preferred a Wexford final. But no motivation needed now at this stage, now the chase for tickets!
remember me if ye get any!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2019, 07:09:09 PM
But no motivation needed now at this stage, now the chase for tickets!
With yet
another Kilkenny v Tipp final, the "chase for tickets" will be like the game at the end of The Crystal Maze.
Like an oul' fella at Nowlan Park a couple of weeks ago sang, they'll be blowin' in the wind.
Quote from: hardstation on July 28, 2019, 06:24:57 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 28, 2019, 05:39:12 PM
Firstly, great game of hurling.
Tipperary looked to be a much fitter team. It looked like Wexford had 14 men and Tip had 15 in the latter stages of the game.
Tip were lucky not to have Heffernan sent off, he was lucky the ref missed the punch.
Will he miss the final?
I think that could happen.
Ref terrible today. No consistency at all. The too long decisions on pause maher were ridiculous.
Any refereeing decision on Padraic Maher is wrong. If they let him off they should have done him. If they do him, they should have done him harder.
I thought Davy Fitz team would use the short pick out more when they had the extra man and try to works a few easy shots. They seemed to go long right up the middle every time with the extra man.
I would generally agree re Maher gallsman but they were wrong today. Those two decisions for travelling were very clear fouls on him.
Wexford had a great chance today but being honest they blew it. Credit to Tipperary they showed great heart to win and some of their scores in lat 20 minutes were awesome. They were lucky that Heffernan did not get his marching orders and I wouldn't be surprised if he appears before one of these cccc committees as it doesn't look like the referee dealt with the incident at the time.
Should be a cracking final. Both teams won't fear each other and will be fairly confident after their respective semi-final victories.
Quote from: hardstation on July 28, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
I would generally agree re Maher gallsman but they were wrong today. Those two decisions for travelling were very clear fouls on him.
One he got done for he put his head down and charged straight into the Wexford player. Certain free in for me.
Mahers robust play generally plays on the limits. Mainly borderline fouls once he collects the ball, to 'charging' over carrying and hand passing. Depends on the ref in fairness, I much prefer a robust approach as long as it's in the rules ;)
If Heffernan is looked at it'll be a two yellows and that's that
Jesus f**king Christ. Dónal Og thinks hurling traditionalists are showing the "last remnants of British cultural influence on these islands"
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 28, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
I would generally agree re Maher gallsman but they were wrong today. Those two decisions for travelling were very clear fouls on him.
One he got done for he put his head down and charged straight into the Wexford player. Certain free in for me.
Mahers robust play generally plays on the limits. Mainly borderline fouls once he collects the ball, to 'charging' over carrying and hand passing. Depends on the ref in fairness, I much prefer a robust approach as long as it's in the rules ;)
If Heffernan is looked at it'll be a two yellows and that's that
Is a punch a yellow?
Quote from: hardstation on July 28, 2019, 10:08:24 PM
He's 100% correct. Next time I hear some aul bollix roaring " Would you drive the ball in" I'm going to shout "Brits out" at him.
:D :D :D
Quote from: gallsman on July 28, 2019, 06:21:57 PM
Moronic stuff from John McGrath. Benny Dunne-esque. Could and should have seen straight red for it.
Should have been a straight red. That was pure filth. One thing this weekend has shown is how incompetent the umpires/match officials are. It was embarrassing how incompetent they werefor All Ireland semi finals
Funny old game. Tipp lost the Munster final by 12 points on June 30th.
Quote from: Sportacus on July 28, 2019, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 28, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
I would generally agree re Maher gallsman but they were wrong today. Those two decisions for travelling were very clear fouls on him.
One he got done for he put his head down and charged straight into the Wexford player. Certain free in for me.
Mahers robust play generally plays on the limits. Mainly borderline fouls once he collects the ball, to 'charging' over carrying and hand passing. Depends on the ref in fairness, I much prefer a robust approach as long as it's in the rules ;)
If Heffernan is looked at it'll be a two yellows and that's that
Is a punch a yellow?
Ffs all strikes are red if you are going by the book!!! You'd have 8 players each at the end of the game if you applied the rules that way. That may piss the fly by night hurling watchers but hurling is a manly sport, I'd have given a yellow for feigning injury after that tap ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 09:15:28 PM
Kilkenny were probably the better team but on the flip side limerick had the chances to win it and made bad choices when it mattered. Also they remained too defensive.
TJ motm for me too. Yeah he is definitely up there with king Henry imo.
The two hurlers I just love watching, its TJ and Seamy Callanan for very different reasons.
TJ is an absolute genius at winning balls in rucks and I still haven't worked out how he does it, must have the fastest rise of a ball in those situations you'd ever see. He just seems to be able to make space and time for himself where no one else can. Sublime player in the air too.
KK aren't the most sophisticated in their puckouts. They create pods with big Wally and TJ in close proximity and put it down onto them. Then if either don't win it, the other lads are firing in at pace at various angles of running to get the knockdowns. They have it down to a fine art and everyone knows they're going to do it but can't negate it in any consistent manner.
Not sure what the Limerick players were thinking with the very laid back start but the world and his dog knew Kilkenny were going to be ripping into them from the get go and that's how it transpired. Maybe putting Tipp to the sword with consummate ease in the Munster final had filled their heads with notions of grandeur.
Along the line, The Kilkenny half backs were never going to go drifting out the field to leave the spaces behind for Gillaine and Co to operate in and Pauric Walsh is the right man to sweep everything up. If anything Kilkenny set up the exact same way with Walter Walsh and the Kilkenny lads also very deep down the field, especially for puck outs and Limerick weren't able to put together those wee linkups like they want to enough times to bother the Kilkenny backs. I'd have thought they could have changed it up a bit by putting the likes of Hayes in on the edge of the square with Guillaine moping up to give Cody something to think about but like most teams probably over coached, deviating from the set plan can be hard to do in the heat of battle.
Limerick can learn a harsh lesson on this and are very young, but Kilkenny do deserve to be in the final even if that last line ball was deflected by the Kilkenny hurl as some of our lads down at the game were directly in line with it.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 28, 2019, 11:13:18 PM
Funny old game. Tipp lost the Munster final by 12 points on June 30th.
Sure is
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShaneSaint/status/1145346439519846401
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShaneSaint/status/1155530534841438208
It's all about staying alive
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 29, 2019, 12:19:04 AM
Quote from: Sportacus on July 28, 2019, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2019, 08:28:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 28, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 28, 2019, 08:09:39 PM
I would generally agree re Maher gallsman but they were wrong today. Those two decisions for travelling were very clear fouls on him.
One he got done for he put his head down and charged straight into the Wexford player. Certain free in for me.
Mahers robust play generally plays on the limits. Mainly borderline fouls once he collects the ball, to 'charging' over carrying and hand passing. Depends on the ref in fairness, I much prefer a robust approach as long as it's in the rules ;)
If Heffernan is looked at it'll be a two yellows and that's that
Is a punch a yellow?
Ffs all strikes are red if you are going by the book!!! You'd have 8 players each at the end of the game if you applied the rules that way. That may piss the fly by night hurling watchers but hurling is a manly sport, I'd have given a yellow for feigning injury after that tap ;D
This 'manly' craic again
Hurling is about playing the ball, not the man.
A strike is a red card either with hurley, hand or foot
Quote from: johnnycool on July 29, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 27, 2019, 09:15:28 PM
Kilkenny were probably the better team but on the flip side limerick had the chances to win it and made bad choices when it mattered. Also they remained too defensive.
TJ motm for me too. Yeah he is definitely up there with king Henry imo.
The two hurlers I just love watching, its TJ and Seamy Callanan for very different reasons.
TJ is an absolute genius at winning balls in rucks and I still haven't worked out how he does it, must have the fastest rise of a ball in those situations you'd ever see. He just seems to be able to make space and time for himself where no one else can. Sublime player in the air too.
It's crazy how he comes away with the ball from these situations so often. The man is an absolute genius. Funny how utterly dependent on him they are these days when for the first few years of his career he'd have been down as a man to bag a handful in a fifteen point win, e.g. the 2008 final vs. Waterford.
Richie Hogan doesn't look far off being completely shot. Too many miles on the clock and too many injuries. Even his touch, which has long been the best in the country, looked off on Saturday. Once he was taking the ball down out of the air and it managed to land about five yards from him, another he was in acres of space, potentially a goal in and he couldn't rise it at all. Couple of nice handpasses from him though. He'll do well to start the final, although I'm not sure who they'd be racing to play ahead of him.
Gutted for Wexford just couldnt get enough scores on the board while they were on top.
The lay off did seem to hurt Limerick but they would want to take a look at their system leaving one man up front on his own was never going to work against a hungry KK team.
Great weekends hurling to be fair.
Thats the first in a while I seen a Tipp team actually come back after looking like they had lost it, they did it twice in the match when in previous years they folded. fair play to the team and management for sorting that side of things out.
The final will be a belter. No let up throughout the game, hopefully no referee either, just throw the ball in and let them tear away!
I'm glad to see them 2 in the final.
They do need a referee, but only to refer to the odd time when they can't agree between themselves.
Ps Chin's free should never been given as a point, it would mean Hogan's fingers catching the ball would have had to be 195mm behind the front of a regulation crossbar, that's 8 inches, I can't think of many with hands that size.
Ref. Limerick Galway minors was a bad calibration
Pss The crossbar didn't look 125mm diameter, more like 90mm trendy aluminum, but surely Croke park have everything correct to their own rules and regulations, just like the flags being part of pitch at line intersections...
Quote from: bogieman on July 31, 2019, 11:56:07 PM
I'm glad to see them 2 in the final.
They do need a referee, but only to refer to the odd time when they can't agree between themselves.
Ps Chin's free should never been given as a point, it would mean Hogan's fingers catching the ball would have had to be 195mm behind the front of a regulation crossbar, that's 8 inches, I can't think of many with hands that size.
Ref. Limerick Galway minors was a bad calibration
Pss The crossbar didn't look 125mm diameter, more like 90mm trendy aluminum, but surely Croke park have everything correct to their own rules and regulations, just like the flags being part of pitch at line intersections...
Have you been on the pitch at Croke? Flags are nowhere near the lines, and they aren't part of play, as for your other calculations I thought about that also, the whole of the ball needs to have been behind the crossbar.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2019, 12:47:29 AM
Quote from: bogieman on July 31, 2019, 11:56:07 PM
I'm glad to see them 2 in the final.
They do need a referee, but only to refer to the odd time when they can't agree between themselves.
Ps Chin's free should never been given as a point, it would mean Hogan's fingers catching the ball would have had to be 195mm behind the front of a regulation crossbar, that's 8 inches, I can't think of many with hands that size.
Ref. Limerick Galway minors was a bad calibration
Pss The crossbar didn't look 125mm diameter, more like 90mm trendy aluminum, but surely Croke park have everything correct to their own rules and regulations, just like the flags being part of pitch at line intersections...
Have you been on the pitch at Croke? Flags are nowhere near the lines, and they aren't part of play, as for your other calculations I thought about that also, the whole of the ball needs to have been behind the crossbar.
Hogans catch on first viewing didn't look a point as his arm/hand wasn't overly angled back enough to suggest that the full off the ball was over the full of the bar, but "computer says Tá"
As much as Cleere has his issues, I'm sure that game was a pig to referee. Loads of contentious issues and marginal calls, scores being disallowed and the likes.
I'd forgive him the square ball call as it's been mulled over now for days with video replays and still there's no consensus.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 01, 2019, 09:18:50 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 01, 2019, 12:47:29 AM
Quote from: bogieman on July 31, 2019, 11:56:07 PM
I'm glad to see them 2 in the final.
They do need a referee, but only to refer to the odd time when they can't agree between themselves.
Ps Chin's free should never been given as a point, it would mean Hogan's fingers catching the ball would have had to be 195mm behind the front of a regulation crossbar, that's 8 inches, I can't think of many with hands that size.
Ref. Limerick Galway minors was a bad calibration
Pss The crossbar didn't look 125mm diameter, more like 90mm trendy aluminum, but surely Croke park have everything correct to their own rules and regulations, just like the flags being part of pitch at line intersections...
Have you been on the pitch at Croke? Flags are nowhere near the lines, and they aren't part of play, as for your other calculations I thought about that also, the whole of the ball needs to have been behind the crossbar.
Hogans catch on first viewing didn't look a point as his arm/hand wasn't overly angled back enough to suggest that the full off the ball was over the full of the bar, but "computer says Tá"
As much as Cleere has his issues, I'm sure that game was a pig to referee. Loads of contentious issues and marginal calls, scores being disallowed and the likes.
I'd forgive him the square ball call as it's been mulled over now for days with video replays and still there's no consensus.
They are calls he never made! Square ball he consulted his umpires, correctly. Hogans catch, he was also told by other officials.
The disallowed goal after not calling advantage was possibly his only major mistake of sorts. There was guarantee that Tipp would have scored a goal so they got a point at least
I thought he also was inconsistent with his application of the yellow card for high challenges. He booked Noel McGrath, but not at least 2 Wexford lads, including the #7 who was already on a yellow.
Yeah the inconsistency was the big thing. Most hurling refs at that level are consistent as they let *most* stuff go anyway. He was fussy at times and not at other times. Also the high tackle stuff is in the rule book and the punishment is black and white. It wasn't enforced.
this same computer said "miss"...
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=937&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=SyJDXYTgJc3IaLukicAM&q=hawkeye+limerick+galway+miss&oq=hawkeye+limerick+galway+miss&gs_l=img.3...4281.8820..9038...0.0..0.69.999.16......0....1..gws-wiz-img.iqXkSCyLDXQ&ved=0ahUKEwjEsbmQmuLjAhVNJBoKHTtSAsgQ4dUDCAY&uact=5#imgrc=fhpKR-xMJJX9hM:
ps ask Steve Carter if hawkeye was calibrated for this
pss ask Stuart Wilson about the flags and the crossbar
it would be easier if someone could explain how to put pictures on these replies, please
https://www.google.com/search?q=stuart+wilson+croke&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjI-bjQ3ubjAhWD1-AKHRoXCLUQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=stuart+wilson+croke&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.3..0i24.32050.33723..34812...0.0..0.203.911.0j5j1......0....1.........0j0i8i30j0i30.cZAtio1STKM&ei=_oJFXciCGIOvgwearqCoCw&bih=909&biw=768&prmd=inv&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB829GB831&hl=en-US#imgrc=riDdNgGSrtLdVM
Consistency- flags are put exactly 2 of Stuart's feet away from the line intersection...
Quote from: bogieman on August 03, 2019, 02:03:25 PM
Consistency- flags are put exactly 2 of Stuart's feet away from the line intersection...
click on the inset image icon (Mona Lisa pic below the B for bold icon) and that will leave two sets of square brackets in the body of the response.
Paste in the image address and bob's yer uncle.
(https://crokepark.ie/BlankSite/media/optimised/Stadium/Stadium%20Technology/Pitch/Croke-Park-Pitch.jpg?ext=.jpg)
Thanks jc
Anyone need a place to stay on Sunday 18th after the final?
PM me. Can sleep up to 8+ people
I see some Nally stand tickets went on general sale
€90 is pretty steep for the average supporter
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2019, 02:00:01 PM
I see some Nally stand tickets went on general sale
€90 is pretty steep for the average supporter
You referees not get one FOC from Antrim CB?
€90 too dear in this day and age without going all Seafoid, wages have stagnated.
From 06 to 18 the GAA made €108m in profit on Croke Park
More than half of 26 county households have a disposable income of €35,000 a year or less.
NI is poorer
€90 is very steep
Quote from: johnnycool on August 14, 2019, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 14, 2019, 02:00:01 PM
I see some Nally stand tickets went on general sale
€90 is pretty steep for the average supporter
You referees not get one FOC from Antrim CB?
€90 too dear in this day and age without going all Seafoid, wages have stagnated.
It's a draw, I'd say (without knowing for defo) that allocations are smaller now than before.
I never missed since 88 bar two times when I'd things on and couldn't get a ticket. €90 is steep but if you save a few quid up for it then it's money well spent
Every year I have zero expectations for Up for the Match and it still manages to let me down. Absolutely God awful stuff.
Galway 11 point winners in the minor final. Thats a 4th minor AI in 5 years for the tribesmen. Sean McDonagh with 4-36 in 4 games one to watch in the years ahead.
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 18, 2019, 02:30:32 PM
Galway 11 point winners in the minor final. Thats a 4th minor AI in 5 years for the tribesmen. Sean McDonagh with 4-36 in 4 games one to watch in the years ahead.
No acceptance speech?
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 18, 2019, 02:31:53 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 18, 2019, 02:30:32 PM
Galway 11 point winners in the minor final. Thats a 4th minor AI in 5 years for the tribesmen. Sean McDonagh with 4-36 in 4 games one to watch in the years ahead.
No acceptance speech?
Like the oscars the music was played to get them out of there?
Quote from: gallsman on August 17, 2019, 11:21:54 PM
Every year I have zero expectations for Up for the Match and it still manages to let me down. Absolutely God awful stuff.
Don't watch it then.
Quote from: Sportacus on August 18, 2019, 02:44:38 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 17, 2019, 11:21:54 PM
Every year I have zero expectations for Up for the Match and it still manages to let me down. Absolutely God awful stuff.
Don't watch it then.
How about you just f**k off?
Hopefully Marty Morrisey will not ruin the game.
Tipp look rattled. Ok tackling like men possessed this year.
Who is that ejit from Antrim?
Duignan going on about conditions. No bearing whatsoever on that challenge whether it was lashing down or the sun was splitting the trees.
I'm sitting just up from it, looked like a clear red all day long imo.
Quote from: square_ball on August 18, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Duignan going on about conditions. No bearing whatsoever on that challenge whether it was lashing down or the sun was splitting the trees.
+1
What an ass Duignan is, Hogan tried to take his head off with an elbow.
Red Card full stop.
That other useless idiot Marty has not stopped talking the "controversial " decision.
Quote from: square_ball on August 18, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
Duignan going on about conditions. No bearing whatsoever on that challenge whether it was lashing down or the sun was splitting the trees.
The supporters on Hill 16 must be drenched. Sending off the correct call? seem to catch him on the chin with his elbow.
I thought it was a red but if the ref had already decided that striking to the head wasn't even a booking which he did by not booking the hurl to Hogan's head he had made a rod for his own back.
Accidental but connected badly with his elbow:shoulder. red. I am not sure what a yellow card is in Hurling, there multi men been dragged to the ground getting away from heir man but no yellows. And the early one on Hogan was a yellow
Quote from: David McKeown on August 18, 2019, 04:12:55 PM
I thought it was a red but if the ref had already decided that striking to the head wasn't even a booking which he did by not booking the hurl to Hogan's head he had made a rod for his own back.
Looked like a red to me also but like you I'm wondering why the ref didn't even book the guy who hit hogan. Was that the same guy hogan got the red for hitting?
Shefflin doesn't think it was a red card offence then again he thinks Kilkenny are playing Limerick.
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2019, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on August 18, 2019, 04:12:55 PM
I thought it was a red but if the ref had already decided that striking to the head wasn't even a booking which he did by not booking the hurl to Hogan's head he had made a rod for his own back.
Looked like a red to me also but like you I'm wondering why the ref didn't even book the guy who hit hogan. Was that the same guy hogan got the red for hitting?
Thought the same. He might have a broken nose
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2019, 04:18:12 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on August 18, 2019, 04:12:55 PM
I thought it was a red but if the ref had already decided that striking to the head wasn't even a booking which he did by not booking the hurl to Hogan's head he had made a rod for his own back.
Looked like a red to me also but like you I'm wondering why the ref didn't even book the guy who hit hogan. Was that the same guy hogan got the red for hitting?
Absolutely, Hogan deserved to walk but he had a hurl wrapped round his head and not an eyebrow raised earlier.
Don't know what it looks like on TV but the lights should have been on from the throw-in. Very dark altogether.
Ollie Canning and Jamesie O'Connor on Sky basically saying it was a red but shouldn't have been given using the usual irrelevant excuses. A red all day long.
RTE don't even discuss the more obvious red
The ones in the lower cusack must have got some soaking. Slow to reappear after half time.
Watching this, I could say Limerick still the best team in the country. Always hard to take All-Ireland Champions that are not undefeated
The Tipperary No. 2 should be in line for a nomination for an Oscar as a result of his "theatrical " antics to get Hogan sent off.
Liam Sheedy a unlikeable bollix. Jumping up and down on the sideline when they are more than 10pts clear.
Quote from: Carbery on August 18, 2019, 04:46:34 PM
The Tipperary No. 2 should be in line for a nomination for an Oscar as a result of his "theatrical " antics to get Hogan sent off.
Milked it for sure but no denying he got a crack on the jaw. It ruined the match as a contest. Hogan obviously came steaming in waiting for Barrett to straighten up so he could bury him with a shoulder but we now know he stepped back leaving Richie flying past with a raised arm. Reckless.
A bit like the Leinster Final, did Kilkenny hit the long ball panic button too soon today again. If they'd clipped over 5 or 6 points it would surely have given them a better chance? Tipperary worthy winners all the same.
Congrats to Tipp. A pity the game turned into a disappointing one side contest for all the neutrals watching.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 18, 2019, 05:03:43 PM
Liam Sheedy a unlikeable bollix. Jumping up and down on the sideline when they are more than 10pts clear.
RTE production as much to blame.
Showed way too much of him IMO
Wait a minute more of same
Jesus just as I write this
Christ am watching him on Sky
Great to see minnows Tipperary win their 28th South Galway/South Leinster/Munster final!
All the talk is of the sending off as the turning point in the game. However Kilkenny were 8 points to 3 up at one stage before Tip got a couple of points and a cracking goal from O'Meara to complete the comeback. That goal had a big impact on the outcome of the game. I think the tip onslaught at the start of the second half was coming regardless of the sending off.
Should Black Cards be introduce in Hurling? A black card for the Kilkenny player would have kept it at 15 vs 15/
Quote from: Capt Pat on August 18, 2019, 05:35:21 PM
All the talk is of the sending off as the turning point in the game. However Kilkenny were 8 points to 3 up at one stage before Tip got a couple of points and a cracking goal from O'Meara to complete the comeback. That goal had a big impact on the outcome of the game. I think the tip onslaught at the start of the second half was coming regardless of the sending off.
Agreed. Once Tipp settled in, Kk had no answer. Sending off didn't help Kilkenny though.
The red killed it but Tipp would have won it anyway.
The problem I had with that match was the referee once he give the free for the bust nose and spoke to the defender. By doing that he showed he had deemed it either deliberate or reckless and in either scenario it is a sending off. So by doing that what he did he has implicitly said to the players. This is an All Ireland final I am going to be lenient in my application of the rules. Tipperary clearly responded to that and their 'comeback' came as they upped the physicality after that decision.
Hogan then goes to do the player with a shoulder. The player steps back and Hogan instinctively tries to react to that and catches him in the head with the area between his shoulder and elbow. The charging in made it at least reckless but still far less dangerous than what had happened to him.
At this point the referee decides to hell with my earlier decision I am now going to apply the rules to a and send this player off. The game was over after that.
Yes Kilkenny should have adjusted tactically but they were now a forward down and they had got their early success from the feracious work rate of their forwards. Trying to do that a man down was never going to work against a team who can properly employ a sweeper.
To add to the frustration RTE were continually telling us that any contact to the head was to be a red card. Ignoring the fact that on at least two occasions it wasn't. I'm just frustrated because a potentially great game was ruined by inconsistent application of the rules. Taken in isolation the Hogan tackle was a red card and a stupid one at that but moments in games aren't taken in isolation.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 18, 2019, 04:46:08 PM
Watching this, I could say Limerick still the best team in the country. Always hard to take All-Ireland Champions that are not undefeated
Limerick were beaten 3 times this year.
Corner back should have got red for whack across Hogan's head before that. Not even a yellow. Inconsistent referee.
He wasn't even sure Hogan's one was a red so don't know how he gave him red.
Quote from: marty34 on August 18, 2019, 07:27:34 PM
Corner back should have got red for whack across Hogan's head before that. Not even a yellow. Inconsistent referee.
He wasn't even sure Hogan's one was a red so don't know how he gave him red.
To me it was a straight red card all day long for Hogan and I can't see what all the controversy is over. He was running past him and clearly lifts his elbow to hit the Tipp player. He might argue he didn't mean it, but an elbow to the head is a red card in any sport. Just because it's an All Ireland final a player shouldn't be immune to a red card.
I think they also need to bring in the black card for hurling. As soon as corner forwards catches the ball they being pulled down by defenders to stop them going for goal. Really noticeable this year
The defenders pulling them lads down repeatedly and arent on even given a yellows for continously and fouling
Hats off to the referee today for making a very brave and necessary call. He knew his decision would probably ruin the game but he's there to enforce rules that are there to protect the players. The ref didn't ruin the game today the offending player did. He made a bad call prior by not awarding the penalty and made mistakes like most of them do but hogan had to walk. Maybe some younger players watching will think there isn't double standards just because it's an all Ireland final now
Hogan mistimed his lunge. Stupid
It was a funny championship. Someone had to win it. Limerick destroyed Tipp in June.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShaneSaint/status/1145346439519846401
If Lee Chin hadn't missed a straight forward free KK would have been out at the round robin stage . Then Wexford ran out of mojo and KK ambushed Limerick .
Glad to see Tipp prevailing .
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 18, 2019, 06:41:09 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 18, 2019, 04:46:08 PM
Watching this, I could say Limerick still the best team in the country. Always hard to take All-Ireland Champions that are not undefeated
Limerick were beaten 3 times this year.
At least the hurling is competitive
5 different winners since 2013
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Yeah it was a red and Michael Duignans "but sure it's a final" is nonsense
Quote from: Minder on August 18, 2019, 08:38:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Yeah it was a red and Michael Duignans "but sure it's a final" is nonsense
+1
'Hurling is different'
Quote from: David McKeown on August 18, 2019, 06:28:21 PM
The problem I had with that match was the referee once he give the free for the bust nose and spoke to the defender. By doing that he showed he had deemed it either deliberate or reckless and in either scenario it is a sending off. So by doing that what he did he has implicitly said to the players. This is an All Ireland final I am going to be lenient in my application of the rules. Tipperary clearly responded to that and their 'comeback' came as they upped the physicality after that decision.
Hogan then goes to do the player with a shoulder. The player steps back and Hogan instinctively tries to react to that and catches him in the head with the area between his shoulder and elbow. The charging in made it at least reckless but still far less dangerous than what had happened to him.
At this point the referee decides to hell with my earlier decision I am now going to apply the rules to a and send this player off. The game was over after that.
Yes Kilkenny should have adjusted tactically but they were now a forward down and they had got their early success from the feracious work rate of their forwards. Trying to do that a man down was never going to work against a team who can properly employ a sweeper.
To add to the frustration RTE were continually telling us that any contact to the head was to be a red card. Ignoring the fact that on at least two occasions it wasn't. I'm just frustrated because a potentially great game was ruined by inconsistent application of the rules. Taken in isolation the Hogan tackle was a red card and a stupid one at that but moments in games aren't taken in isolation.
The rule is, 'Deliberate high challenge'
Stonewall red. Anyone arguing otherwise is embarrassing themselves.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on August 18, 2019, 09:08:47 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on August 18, 2019, 06:28:21 PM
The problem I had with that match was the referee once he give the free for the bust nose and spoke to the defender. By doing that he showed he had deemed it either deliberate or reckless and in either scenario it is a sending off. So by doing that what he did he has implicitly said to the players. This is an All Ireland final I am going to be lenient in my application of the rules. Tipperary clearly responded to that and their 'comeback' came as they upped the physicality after that decision.
Hogan then goes to do the player with a shoulder. The player steps back and Hogan instinctively tries to react to that and catches him in the head with the area between his shoulder and elbow. The charging in made it at least reckless but still far less dangerous than what had happened to him.
At this point the referee decides to hell with my earlier decision I am now going to apply the rules to a and send this player off. The game was over after that.
Yes Kilkenny should have adjusted tactically but they were now a forward down and they had got their early success from the feracious work rate of their forwards. Trying to do that a man down was never going to work against a team who can properly employ a sweeper.
To add to the frustration RTE were continually telling us that any contact to the head was to be a red card. Ignoring the fact that on at least two occasions it wasn't. I'm just frustrated because a potentially great game was ruined by inconsistent application of the rules. Taken in isolation the Hogan tackle was a red card and a stupid one at that but moments in games aren't taken in isolation.
The rule is, 'Deliberate high challenge'
Is it? I thought the rule was that it was an offence To strike an opponent with a hurley, either with
force or causing injury. For which the punishment is a straight red card.
Again I'm not annoyed with Hogan's red. What I am annoyed with that having previously decided he wasn't going to apply rules on striking the ref then decided to apply it. It was that inconsistency that ruined the game.
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Is there debate surrounding it? For me the strange thing is why he didn't even book the tipp lad who wrapped his hurl round Hogan's face
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2019, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Is there debate surrounding it? For me the strange thing is why he didn't even book the tipp lad who wrapped his hurl round Hogan's face
If you look on twitter (granted never a good place to look for sensible/reasonable points of view) its amazing the amount of former hurlers who are lashing the referee for the red card. Player safety and the fact he was hit in the head is irrelevant to them. All going along with the likes of Duignan who seem to think hits to the head are the same as a big shoulder
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Now Jackie Tyrell on Sunday game spirit of All Ireland, he nearly broke his F%ckin jaw.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on August 18, 2019, 05:03:43 PM
Liam Sheedy a unlikeable bollix. Jumping up and down on the sideline when they are more than 10pts clear.
Find that harsh, he is a highly passionate over achieving manager. As an analyst found him articulate and accurate. It's clear his players buy into him and he buys into them. Good luck to him. Jim Gavin is quiet on the line, that's the way he rolls, good luck to him also, can't please everyone. Have went to a number of U10 blitzs over the years in Derry, can recall 2 particular teams who'd have 6 coaches roaring and shouting abuse at their own team and the opposition, jumping up and down like scalded hyenas if they won a game.
It should have been Wexford's year.
Well done to Tipp. Class forwards who were the difference.
Almost every player in the minor game was using an altered faceguard
When are the GAA going to clamp down on this?
It's no wonder Richie got a hurley through the visor. Half the bars are missing
We all want the full 15 players on both teams playing out an end to end thriller but it was a red, ref the match not the occasion is what they say. There should have been a penalty in the first half, actually that was the easiest of calls. The elbow in face yes a red card by the book, different ref may have given a free and moved on, problem arises from what's being said into his headset! He's (in my book) giving a decision based on another persons call.
Hogan was due to be replaced I thought leading up to that.
On the game I thought Tipp would have won but they'd not have won by as many as they did in fairness.
Great occasion and fair play Sheedy, as hungry and as passionate a hurling man you'll get
Great day out, rain was a disaster when it came down it was torrential. Never thought it was a red until watched Sunday game but don't think there was any malice in it. Well done Tipp blew them away in second half.
Ní uasal agus íseal ach thuas seal agus thíos seal
Kilkenny won a very handy replay in 2012 v Galway
after Cyril Donnellan was sent off. It ruined the game
as a spectacle but Shefflin didn't complain .
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2019, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Is there debate surrounding it? For me the strange thing is why he didn't even book the tipp lad who wrapped his hurl round Hogan's face
There clearly is, even in the studio at half time sheflin said no Red. John Mullane on radio said it was very harsh and there are a lot of people of Facebook and Twitter blaming the ref for ruining the final.
IMO that's because so much is let go in hurling. It pretty much has to be a red though as David said no consistency.
hurling refs this year have shot themselves in the foot a bit by letting loads go and then picking up on somethings but not all so then they lack consistency.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 08:48:49 AM
IMO that's because so much is let go in hurling. It pretty much has to be a red though as David said no consistency.
hurling refs this year have shot themselves in the foot a bit by letting loads go and then picking up on somethings but not all so then they lack consistency.
True. Cilian Buckley had a similar one in semi-final iirc - an elbow V Limerick but did he get a card???
As someone else stated, wild swing to head by Tipp lad when KK lad was on the ground near the sideline.It was mistimed and not deliberate but not even a card.
What was didderent between that and Richie Hogan's?
Yeah in isolation Hogan's tackle is a red card but when looking at consistency compared to other decisions that is when it becomes more controversial.
I think eventually Tipp would have taken control anyway. Feel a bit for Hoga although I do think there was some red mist from previous incidents.
Quote from: Itchy on August 19, 2019, 08:32:33 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 18, 2019, 09:32:57 PM
Quote from: Itchy on August 18, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
I don't pretend to be a hurling man but is that not a straight forward red card in any sport? I can't understand the debate on it.
Is there debate surrounding it? For me the strange thing is why he didn't even book the tipp lad who wrapped his hurl round Hogan's face
There clearly is, even in the studio at half time sheflin said no Red. John Mullane on radio said it was very harsh and there are a lot of people of Facebook and Twitter blaming the ref for ruining the final.
2012 Final replay
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/pivotal-moments-1.546072
Kilkenny 1-11 Galway 2-4
49 mins
A critical minute.
Canning appears from the left and is picked out. His shot whips across the goalmouth with David Herity beaten but hits the far post and rebounds into play.
Within seconds Buckley hits a point at the other end and Donnellan flicks out at JJ Delaney after the ball has gone and is red carded.
Kilkenny 1-14 Galway 2-7
56 mins
Killkenny's improvement at centrefield has turned around an area which Galway have dominated in both previous games. With the match won the effort goes on and Michael Fennelly tracks a run by Andy Smith and, judging his intervention perfectly, flicks the ball away from his Galway opponent.
Kilkenny 1-18 Galway 2-7
58 mins
After the sending-off, the outcome has become inevitable and any notions that adversity would inspire Galway are debunked in a 15-minute period that sees them out-scored 2-7 to 0-1. The first of the goals comes with Walter Walsh capping a fantasy debut by following in to net the rebound from Fergal Flannery's save from TJ Reid.
Kilkenny 2-19 Galway 2-8
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 19, 2019, 09:11:19 AM
Yeah in isolation Hogan's tackle is a red card but when looking at consistency compared to other decisions that is when it becomes more controversial.
I think eventually Tipp would have taken control anyway. Feel a bit for Hoga although I do think there was some red mist from previous incidents.
Barratt and Hogan was flaking each other just before Barratt broke out to the wing to collect that ball.
Hogan had the mist on and was about to bury Barratt but was undone by Barratts neat set back, throwing the elbow up was just too tempting in that situation.
Hogan probably wasn't helped by his lack of remorse but IMO the referee was right to send him off and as Barry Kelly said on the Sunday Game, if that wasn't a sending off offence then what is?
Exactly.
Hogan was reacting for sure and there was full intent, I would be disappointed with the likes of Cody,Henry and Tyrell last night. Cody is famous for saying it's a mans game to justify the physical intensity his teams bring but that was pure thuggery. He was bleeding (Hogan)but as far as I can see he set out to rough Barret up a bit, Barret set him straight and got away with it, Hogan boy reacted less cutely and didn't. Cahal Barret might have discipline issues away from the pitch but on it he always hurls the ball.
Enda McEvoy put the best this morning "it didn't effect the outcome just the margin"
Eoin Larkin reckons nobody deserves to be sent off on All Ireland final day, well probably just Benny Dunne in '09
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
Eoin Larkin reckons nobody deserves to be sent off on All Ireland final day, well probably just Benny Dunne in '09
What planet are these lads on?
Are Munster finals and Leinster finals also to be exempt?
What about Gerry Quinn taking a go at Henry in an AI semi-final replay, that's probably OK now as well?
Quote from: johnnycool on August 19, 2019, 11:24:19 AM
Quote from: Minder on August 19, 2019, 10:29:31 AM
Eoin Larkin reckons nobody deserves to be sent off on All Ireland final day, well probably just Benny Dunne in '09
What planet are these lads on?
Are Munster finals and Leinster finals also to be exempt?
What about Gerry Quinn taking a go at Henry in an AI semi-final replay, that's probably OK now as well?
This is a Kilkenny trope .
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/eddie-keher-s-ideas-have-kick-started-a-debate-on-the-future-of-the-game-1.1687946
"A curious focus in Eddie Keher's document – which Kilkenny manager Brian Cody praised as "making an awful lot of sense" – which he submitted to the GAA is on red and yellow cards, described in the submission as "
totally at variance with the ethos, physicality and manliness of the game of hurling"
Hurling was never a cynical game," he writes, "but it is now starting to become one due to the unjust penalties imposed for fouls by players full of honest endeavour. With the introduction of all these restrictions and penalties and now the proposed introduction of 'black cards' for hurlers the players are appearing to be treated and regarded as the 'bad guys' of our games."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2014/0217/504912-keher/
"Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Today with Sean O'Rourke, Keher outlined his frustration about what he calls the needless rituals of showing cards.
He said: "
I never agreed with use of cards. They were introduced in 1970 in the soccer World Cup which was a wise decision because of the language barrier.
"It enabled referees to communicate better with the players of various countries.
"
I abhor the whole ritual of showing cards to our hurlers. It's a pompous and triumphalist exercise causing humiliation to our great players in front of their families, friends and supporters."
But sending other players off is fine
So basically championship matches should be like the fabled Kilkenny training session matches then. No real need for referees in inter-County hurling games. I think Eddie played a fairly long time ago & it shows.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/do-you-agree-with-the-sunday-games-hurling-team-of-the-year-944782.html
I find it irritating commentators, pundits, journalists referring to John O Dwyer as bubbles. Bubbles this and bubbles that, feck off, shower of eggits.
A well merited win for Tipp in the end. They looked the most likely winners the longer the 1st half progressed, albeit after a poor enough start. The sending off only increased the winning margin and the most surprising aspect of the 2nd half was how poorly KK coped being a man down - raining balls down on that Tipp FB line was desperation stuff at best.
Richie Hogan cant have too many complaints - it was a stonewall Red card. Barrett should have picked up a yellow a little earlier also.
It's a pity that it is all over in the middle of August
I thought it was a fair shoulder (at least it would have been before we had high definition tv and cameras everywhere!)
Quote from: Rudi on August 19, 2019, 01:44:54 PM
I find it irritating commentators, pundits, journalists referring to John O Dwyer as bubbles. Bubbles this and bubbles that, feck off, shower of eggits.
I have no problem when they use nicknames as long as they don't combine both the nickname and full name.
John O'Dwyer - fine
Bubbles O'Dwyer - fine
John Bubbles O'Dwyer - gtfo.
It was the same with Cha Fitzpatrick before he chucked it in.
Quote from: thejuice on August 19, 2019, 04:41:34 PM
I thought it was a fair shoulder (at least it would have been before we had high definition tv and cameras everywhere!)
Isn't it good to have hi def TV and cameras or the referee would have been slaughtered by the press and public today
Quote from: gallsman on August 19, 2019, 05:08:27 PM
Quote from: Rudi on August 19, 2019, 01:44:54 PM
I find it irritating commentators, pundits, journalists referring to John O Dwyer as bubbles. Bubbles this and bubbles that, feck off, shower of eggits.
I have no problem when they use nicknames as long as they don't combine both the nickname and full name.
John O'Dwyer - fine
Bubbles O'Dwyer - fine
John Bubbles O'Dwyer - gtfo.
It was the same with Cha Fitzpatrick before he chucked it in.
Marty Fckn Morrissey to blame
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
Quote from: Saint 1963 on August 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
Would the 2 uprights not get in the way of getting a proper view?
Quote from: Saint 1963 on August 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
I'd like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye's view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!
I presume Hawkeye reacts when any part of the ball goes past the back of the crossbar, or the goal-line for that matter.
The official guide is not clear - it just says a point is scored "...when the ball is played over the crossbar..."
Should it say "all of the ball must be over the line or crossbar for a score? Like the soccer?
American football awards a touchdown when the front of the ball breaks the front edge of the line.
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back
Quote from: dublin7 on August 19, 2019, 09:03:59 PM
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back
Is Hawkeye saying all the sliothar was behind the crossbar yesterday?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2019, 08:44:52 PM
Quote from: Saint 1963 on August 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
I'd like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye's view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!
I had a good angle of that. Absolutely no way that that ball was completely behind the crossbar. Not a chance. I have a real problem with how Hawkeye shows that graphic, of course the trajectory of the ball is correct, but there's no way it went over the bar and the graphic makes it look clear cut. Goal Line type technology is the only thing that could answer that.
Quote from: marty34 on August 19, 2019, 06:24:21 PM
Quote from: Saint 1963 on August 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
Would the 2 uprights not get in the way of getting a proper view?
Not if the ball was completely over because the posts are the same width as the crossbar.
Tipp keeper adamant it wasn't over the bar. Didn't think it was myself.
I only thought Hawkeye did between the posts. If Hawkeye deems it over the bar could they not show it? Would love to see how they set it up to do this.
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2019, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2019, 08:44:52 PM
Quote from: Saint 1963 on August 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
I'd like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye's view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!
I had a good angle of that. Absolutely no way that that ball was completely behind the crossbar. Not a chance. I have a real problem with how Hawkeye shows that graphic, of course the trajectory of the ball is correct, but there's no way it went over the bar and the graphic makes it look clear cut. Goal Line type technology is the only thing that could answer that.
So Hawkeye "beeps" (insert correct technical term here) when any part of the ball goes behind the back of the crossbar.
I'll bet a clarification will be brought out soon (before next year's league) that all the ball must pass 100% behind the crossbar for a point or 100% over the line and under the crossbar for a goal. Although the wording as is "..ball is played over the goal-line..."kind of insinuates that all of the ball must be over the line.
Maybe a few of us can ramble out to Croke Park with a few sliothars and a ladder (or bring Brian Hogan with us) and carry out some experiments for the GAA.
Quote from: Rudi on August 19, 2019, 01:44:54 PM
I find it irritating commentators, pundits, journalists referring to John O Dwyer as bubbles. Bubbles this and bubbles that, feck off, shower of eggits.
Sports commentators shouldn't be using nicknames in the first place.
Could you imagine a soccer commentator saying that Psycho Pearce has passed the ball to Sicknote Anderton?
With the speed of restarts after a score or wide, should TV not bother with the replay, as they often miss the resumption of play. Resumptions are critical these days. Goes for hurling and football.
Quote from: dublin7 on August 19, 2019, 09:03:59 PM
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back
source?
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/liam-sheedy-i-wouldn-t-be-an-all-ireland-champion-manager-only-for-eamon-o-shea-1.3990999
Liam Sheedy: 'I wouldn't be an All-Ireland champion manager only for Eamon O'Shea'
Tommy Dunne on the alchemy that makes the Tipp backroom tick
about 3 hours ago
Gavin Cummiskey
There's a warm glow inside the old Burlington hotel on this Monday morning after Tipperary topple Kilkenny. All comers from all counties. Anthony Daly and Derek McGrath giggle in the corner. Ger Cunningham stalls to say hello.
Here ends a decade embalmed by Tipp's hurling greatness. We gather on high stools to listen to groggy yet clear-eyed champions speak as freely and accurately as their hurling flowed the day before.
We seek out Eamon O'Shea. Be it glory or misery, the professor of economics always weaves a story to soar the imagination. A man of many hues; an epidemiologist, the Tipperary manager from 2012 to 2015 (when Kilkenny twice snatched the All-Ireland spoils), a "spontaneously" gifted coach who conjures hurling alchemy whenever the chord is connected to Liam Sheedy.
Eamon is nowhere to be found but we are gifted something far better.Tommy Dunne tries but happily fails to explain what makes O'Shea so special,then Sheedy speaks about his old pal.
Dunne, the 2001 All-Ireland-winning captain, is asked how O'Shea's return to the fold following the National League impacted on the management and specifically his own role.
"I wasn't really head coach," Dunne explains. "It is a kind of unique coaching environment. Liam is a very hands-on coach. Darragh [Egan] is a hands-on coach as well. Myself and Darragh did most of the coaching in the pre-season and after Christmas, and then Eamon came in.
"It was a terrific boost for us all. We just kind of let it flow and felt it out amongst ourselves. The dynamic and chemistry was good from the very start."
O'Shea's rhythmic voice was the last any Tipperary hurler heard before throw-in last Sunday.
Brian Cody 'amazed' by red card for Richie Hogan
Four Kilkenny coups from Brian Cody's back catalogue
Kevin McStay: No hiding Mayo's many mistakes against Dublin
"It's not something that fits into a box really," Dunne continues. "Eamon's style is very spontaneous. Very, very significant understanding of the game and he has a lot of experience with this group and with Liam over many years. That's a huge part of it.
"Part of the reason this thing works so well is there was no real overload on any one person; different people doing different things at different times. Hopefully the players got value out of that."
The sight of O'Shea running water bottles into players must wash a wave of humility over this Tipperary panel.
"You are there to make the group better and help the player improve, that's your only function as a coach, and obviously to ensure they turn into a cohesive team and playing to a system and a style that is true to itself. That's what we are all there for.
"If you are to ask me how the dynamic works I wouldn't be able to put it into words. It's just something that we took on a session by session basis and always measured on what was important for players."
That was Dunne. We could head away happy but before Sheedy's hoarse ode to Eamon we must tell a story about an emotional O'Shea speaking in Nowlan Park. It's July 2013 and unseen mishaps – Dublin caught Kilkenny while Limerick beat Tipp – landed hurling's alpha dogs in a unique do or die qualifier. The Marble City was aflame with anticipation. Lar Corbett's hamstring exploded as Henry Shefflin walked off the field with drenched Tipperary jersey stuck to his body.
"These guys are honourable men who went to fight today," O'Shea said afterwards. "They came out on the wrong side of the fight, but these are men of honour. These will be men of honour in the future.
"Whatever happens, we just lost a game by three points. We didn't lose what's in Tipperary. This team, a lot of them, with the guys coming behind them, will be back in the next couple of years. That I'm certain of."
Brian Cody uttered exactly the same sentiment on Sunday evening.
Back to this Monday morning and Sheedy is asked how important it was to rope O'Shea back into the fold.
"Myself and Eamon O'Shea have a special relationship, there's no other words for it. We started back in 2008 and we went on a journey and the journey finished in 2010."
He was only ever climbing the Hogan steps with O'Shea on his shoulder.
"The reality is I wouldn't be sitting here today as an All-Ireland champion manager only for Eamon O'Shea. He has a special connection to me and he has a special connection to all the players and he just brings the best out of everyone.
"Eamon O'Shea is a very busy man. He has a hectic schedule. As I said, sometimes people just click and me and Eamon O'Shea click and click very well. As I said, I couldn't visualise myself going on this journey without having Eamon by my side and on my shoulder. Just thrilled this morning now, it's pure elation because we done it together in 2010 and here we are. It was a special moment in 2010 going up and throwing up the cup and yesterday, to do it again with Eamon by my side is a very special moment."
Sated, the media escape Dublin 4 just as the Tipperary bus takes The Liam MacCarthy Cup coloured blue and gold to Our Lady's Children's Hospital in Crumlin.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 20, 2019, 05:56:43 AM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 19, 2019, 09:03:59 PM
They have 2 hawkeye systems they can use on match days. One is to check if the ball has gone between the posts and the other is to check if the ball has gone over the crossbar and been pulled back
source?
Various GAA press releases. Piece in the Indo after Tipp beat Wexford in the semi final also confirms hawkeye is responsible for checking if ball has crossed the bar not the umpires in situations like sunday:
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/refs-to-review-hawkeye-intervention-guidelines-following-john-mcgrath-disallowed-goal-controversy-38357774.html
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 19, 2019, 09:28:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 19, 2019, 08:44:52 PM
Quote from: Saint 1963 on August 19, 2019, 05:51:04 PM
Does anyone have an opinion about Hawkeye and the point awarded to Kilkenny yesterday? Why does the caption used to award the score not show the position of the ball in relation to to crossbar at the point where Hogan actually caught the sliothar? With all the cameras at the game, isn't it strange not to have one positioned along the end line where everyone could see whether or not the point was scored!
I'd like to see that visually rather through Hawkeye's view! A whole hand with ball completely behind the post!
I had a good angle of that. Absolutely no way that that ball was completely behind the crossbar. Not a chance. I have a real problem with how Hawkeye shows that graphic, of course the trajectory of the ball is correct, but there's no way it went over the bar and the graphic makes it look clear cut. Goal Line type technology is the only thing that could answer that.
The replays showed clearly that it was not a point. There was probably the smallest fraction of the sliothar over the "line".
The Hawkeye graphic even showed the line changing colour where the keeper caught it. The second colour showed the trajectory the ball would have taken had the keeper not caught it. And that was enough for Hawkeye to grant the point. Utter BS!
O'Donoghue steps down in Galway
They weren't points going by the views available on TV, and the physical dimensions of the bar, the slitoar, and how far back a man's arm, wrist and hand can bend backwards. Then we have the claimed 3.6mm hawkeye accuracy, but this claim is only verified for tennis courts with a fluffy 67mm diameter ball.
It's too detailed to go into the size of a gaelic pitch, the position of the cameras, their field of view, and the actual resolution of the image pixels, but needless to say it wouldn't be good marketing for Sony.
Then we can go onto the statistical error introduced with the vibration of the cameras when the stands have thousands of fans in them, they can't be assumed to be rock solid...
It's oblivious that Súil an tSeabhaic was not properly calibrated for this; the gaa pays thousands of yoyos for each game that uses hawkeye for their technicians, they nor certainty not Steve Carter will admit this calibration issue. Next year we will see the graphics when it's sorted out properly... But we may not know the inherent errors.
I'm a fan of this technology, but I would like to know the limitations, the value of CV for different ball positions.
Ps. By rule, the sliotar diameter is 70.5 +/-1.5mm, the crossbar when round should be 125 +5mm, and lines should be 90 +/-13mm wide.
Boundary lines form the field of play, and the intersections shall have a flag, which is also included in the play rules.
To clarify;
A. the whole of the ball must be over the whole of the line to be a goal - not currently assessed by hawkeye, for a few dollars more...
B. the whole of the ball must be over the whole of the crossbar to be a point
C. If the ball touches a flag during play, it's a line ball.
So Croke park has a few issues to sort between their gaa rules, and their implementation, namely;
The crossbars diameter are not the correct dimension
The flags are placed in the incorrect position
Specific detail of the resolution and calibration of hawkeye needs to be released for the Croke park installation.
Pss. It has to be accepted before any sensible argument starts that hawkeye is not infallible, there are scientific and technical limitations, notwithstanding the human error. The technical detail has not been released for a reason, eluded to above...
Psss. Hawkeye only needs to "see" a fraction of the ball to work out its center free space co-ordinate position when it has the correct ball diameter parameter, so to validate a point, has the score area "vertical plane" been calibrated for a 90 or a 125 mm crossbar, or calibrated accurately at all, my opinion is the latter because up till now, the only controversies being the whole of the ball inside the posts...
Pssss I wonder if they have taken account of the 2.4 +/-0.4mm rib on the sliothar
(https://www.goalpostireland.com/image/cache/catalog/product/1/0/1051037_-_copy_custom__1-700x700.jpg)
With all thisKilkenny talk about manliness in hurling, Kilkenny are still whining like hungry piglets about the red card decision. Can't they lose a game in a manly fashion?
Tipp already demonstrated they could win after going a man down and overturn a 5 point deficet in the doing.
Quote from: Main Street on August 21, 2019, 10:02:11 PM
With all thisKilkenny talk about manliness in hurling, Kilkenny are still whining like hungry piglets about the red card decision. Can't they lose a game in a manly fashion?
Tipp already demonstrated they could win after going a man down and overturn a 5 point deficet in the doing.
I'm not sure what grounds they can appeal on.
We all know an infraction occurred, they can't deny that it didn't and it was to the head area.
A bit like Caolan Mooney earlier in the year.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 22, 2019, 09:33:45 AM
Quote from: Main Street on August 21, 2019, 10:02:11 PM
With all thisKilkenny talk about manliness in hurling, Kilkenny are still whining like hungry piglets about the red card decision. Can't they lose a game in a manly fashion?
Tipp already demonstrated they could win after going a man down and overturn a 5 point deficet in the doing.
I'm not sure what grounds they can appeal on.
We all know an infraction occurred, they can't deny that it didn't and it was to the head area.
A bit like Caolan Mooney earlier in the year.
AFAIK you can appeal any red card, just smacks of really poor form for them to do so. Knowing that in all likelihood Hogan wont be back for championship next year so therefore any ban would be pointless anyway.
Just let it slide and use it for internal motivation for next year, but for them do so is a bit of a reflection of Cody himself.
It's poor form but KK have form in this area with Eddie Keher a few years ago talking about cards being a soccer invention and embarrassing players in front of their families
Kilkenny set to appeal Hogan red card
August 22, 2019
Kilkenny's Richie Hogan is sent off by referee James Owens
Kilkenny county board are set to launch an appeal against the red card picked up by Richie Hogan in last Sunday's All-Ireland SHC final.
The Irish Independent reports today that the board are "believed to be lining up an appeal" against the red card that Hogan received on the eve of half-time after a challenge on Tipperary's Cathal Barrett.
The sending-off carries a one-match suspension which would see the 31-year-old missing the Cats' 2020 Leinster championship opener.
Manager Brian Cody said after Sunday's final defeat to the Premier men that he was "amazed" by referee James Owens' decision to issue a red card for the challenge and it understood that the Kilkenny board and Hogan have discussed the matter informally.
Like wtf, appalling
1990 hurling final on at 2pm today! Cracking game! Was in the Hill that day!
One of my favourite hurlers Shane Dowling has retired from county hurling due to injury..
This first goal shows you has pure class
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNKdxLmRv_c
So skillfull. Always wondered why he didn't start more but the knees explain it. I thought he was way more than 27.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2020, 07:08:25 AM
So skillfull. Always wondered why he didn't start more but the knees explain it. I thought he was way more than 27.
Scored a brilliant goal for NaPairsigh vrs Sniel, stole the ball off the keeper, flicked it over a defenders head and volleyed it straight into the net..
Those things can't be coached.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 03, 2020, 09:37:17 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2020, 07:08:25 AM
So skillfull. Always wondered why he didn't start more but the knees explain it. I thought he was way more than 27.
Scored a brilliant goal for NaPairsigh vrs Sniel, stole the ball off the keeper, flicked it over a defenders head and volleyed it straight into the net..
Those things can't be coached.
The goal V Kilkenny in last years AISF was unreal also.
The thinking to bat it into the very bottom from about 15 yeards out was unreal. How did he even think about it? A defender was in front of the keeper and the speed and accuracy was fantastic.
The high knees celebration afterwards was great also.
A man to light up any hurling pitch. Serious talent who seemed to be around forever and a day.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2020, 12:08:31 AM
One of my favourite hurlers Shane Dowling has retired from county hurling due to injury..
This first goal shows you has pure class
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNKdxLmRv_c
So good that he won the celtic cross. So many top class players never do.