Retain the Super 8’s series?

Started by BennyCake, August 06, 2019, 02:44:32 PM

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Are you in favour of retaining the Super 8's series?

Yes
22 (31.9%)
No, go back to knockout quarter finals
47 (68.1%)

Total Members Voted: 69

Ball Hopper

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 07, 2019, 02:34:38 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well

If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.

Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright. 

Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry.  Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone.  No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.

Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all.  Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.

In order to reach the final, Mayo would have played the Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster champions!

To round it out - Dublin will have played two teams who will be in Div 3 next year (Louth and Cork),  2 teams who will be in Div 2 next year (Kildare and Roscommon), a team that was in Div 2 this year (Meath), plus the beaten semi-finalists from both Connacht (Mayo) and Ulster (Tyrone).  Why are they odds on again?

Angelo

I'd like to return to the quarter finals with provincial champions getting home advantage or able to choose a nominated home venue.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Hound

Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 09:24:25 PM


Rd 1 Ross v Tyrone in The Hyde, Dublin v Cork in Croker

Rd 2 Tyrone v Dublin in Omagh, Ross v Cork in Cork

Rd 3 Tyrone v Cork neutral venue, Dublin v Ross neutral venue.

Does that make a better Super 8?  I suppose (copyright Tomas O'Se) it does, lookit.

Course it does.

R2 in Omagh would have been a proper game and Ross v Cork playing for their lives. Interestingly if those results stayed the same, you'd have had Dublin 4, Ros 2, Tyrone 2, Cork 0, going into the last phase.

But Dublin odds-on to beat Ross, which means Cork know if they beat Tyrone all 3 other teams end up on 2 points, so down to scoring difference. Every team still in with a fighting chance of qualifying.

And Dublin couldn't have afforded to rest 10/12 men given they'd be playing a very much still alive Roscommon and the Dubs could still have missed out if the lost (i.e. Ros and Tyrone win and they end up on 4 points, level with Dublin, so top 2 is decided by scoring difference). 

At the end of the day, Dublin and Tyrone would most likely have still qualified in 1st and 2nd, but there would have been a lot more excitement surrounding it

magpie seanie

Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.

This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.


Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.


Kerry v Donegal, Mayo v Donegal and Tyrone v Cork were good games.

Donegal v Meath, Mayo v Meath, Kerry v Mayo, Kerry v Meath, Roscommon v Tyrone and Dublin v Cork were decent but results not really in doubt.

Cork v Roscommon was decent but meaningless. Tyrone v Dublin was a farce. Dublin v Roscommon was an annihilation.

So 3/12 games were good in my view. Just 25%. And the full last round in one group was pointless.

It's just a money generation exercise.

Rossfan

When Ground rents were paid for the games in Omagh, Ballybofey, Hyde etc would the series have netted any more €€€s for Central GAA than the old Quarter Finals?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

five points

#35
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.

This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season.

They still mattered. Tyrone and Wexford's amazing wins in 2008 and Dublin's in 2010 would have counted for feck all under the Hateful 8s system. The heaps of dung we saw over the weekend didn't.

RedHand88

Quote from: five points on August 07, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.

This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season.

They still mattered. Tyrone and Wexford's amazing wins in 2008 and Dublin's in 2010 would have counted for feck all under the Hateful 8s system. The heaps of dung we saw over the weekend didn't.

All great matches, but for me there's too much Kerry v Kildare 2015, Tyrone v Armagh 2017, Dublin v anyone etc.

t_mac

Quote from: hardstation on August 07, 2019, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 07, 2019, 10:20:21 AM
Quote from: five points on August 07, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.

This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season.

They still mattered. Tyrone and Wexford's amazing wins in 2008 and Dublin's in 2010 would have counted for feck all under the Hateful 8s system. The heaps of dung we saw over the weekend didn't.

All great matches, but for me there's too much Kerry v Kildare 2015, Tyrone v Armagh 2017, Dublin v anyone etc.
The Super 8s makes this worse. If a shite team makes it, they get 3 trimmings instead of 1.

Totally agree and AIQF is a huge prize, better than getting to the super 8's for teams as the potential to cause an upset is very real. 

Wildweasel74

No. Just another way to make money, and back to quarter finals as before. I even look at reverting to the old league system from 25yrs ago where top 2 in the league go to quarter final stage. The current system sees the strong play the strong in div 1 and get further ahead of the rest. The old way had a variety of teams makings quarter finals in league

blanketattack

Super 8s are too elitist.

Go with 8 groups of 4, seeded based on the league (pick a different team every year to go off on a junket to New York for a 'play-off').
With each group of 4, 4th seed get home games v top 2 seeds, and neutral venue v 3rd seed.
Take top 4 from each province based on pts and points difference to play-off the provincial c'ships over two weekends.
Top 2 from each group go into All-Ireland knockout, 1st round seeded - winners v runners up, open draw after that.
3rd and 4th from each group go into a properly supported 'B' c'ship, properly marketed, shown on TV, decent prize plus a carrot like a 3 year exemption in 'A' c'ship.
If a provincial winner comes from a 3rd or 4th place team, they still get to play in the 'A' c'ship.
So every team gets a chance of winning both a provincial title and the All-Ireland, the provincial c'ships still relevant, weaker teams get more games and have no away games.

Cunny Funt

Quote from: magpie seanie on August 07, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.

This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.


Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.


Kerry v Donegal, Mayo v Donegal and Tyrone v Cork were good games.

Donegal v Meath, Mayo v Meath, Kerry v Mayo, Kerry v Meath, Roscommon v Tyrone and Dublin v Cork were decent but results not really in doubt.

Cork v Roscommon was decent but meaningless. Tyrone v Dublin was a farce. Dublin v Roscommon was an annihilation.

So 3/12 games were good in my view. Just 25%. And the full last round in one group was pointless.

It's just a money generation exercise.

Wouldn't class Donegal v Mayo as a good game. A contest with 26 wides and many more shots kicked into the keeper hands. A match that was in the balance up to injury time but it was a error ridden contest not helped of course by the poor weather conditions.


Hound

Quote from: magpie seanie on August 07, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.

This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.


Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.


Kerry v Donegal, Mayo v Donegal and Tyrone v Cork were good games.

Donegal v Meath, Mayo v Meath, Kerry v Mayo, Kerry v Meath, Roscommon v Tyrone and Dublin v Cork were decent but results not really in doubt.

Cork v Roscommon was decent but meaningless. Tyrone v Dublin was a farce. Dublin v Roscommon was an annihilation.

So 3/12 games were good in my view. Just 25%. And the full last round in one group was pointless.

It's just a money generation exercise.
That's a fair analysis, and if they'd got the order correct in the Dublin group, it would have eliminated at least 2 of the farces. That would have been 3 good games and 8 decent games out of 12. Harsh to complain about that. Fact of the matter is that even ignoring Dublin, you have Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal a fair whack ahead of everybody else this year (barring injuries).

Under the previous system, the QFs would have been:

Dublin v Cork
Kerry v Meath
Roscommon v Tyrone
Donegal v Mayo

How would that have been for a double-double bill over the bank holiday weekend? All but the last would have been over as a contest with 20 minutes to go.
This year the Super 8 was better than the alternative and now there should be 2 very good semi finals.

t_mac

Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well

If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.

Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright. 

Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry.  Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone.  No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.

Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all.  Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.

Antrim, Longford and Kildare not count.

Ball Hopper

Quote from: t_mac on August 07, 2019, 02:40:11 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well

If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.

Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright. 

Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry.  Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone.  No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.

Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all.  Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.

Antrim, Longford and Kildare not count.

Them too.

westbound

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 07, 2019, 02:34:38 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well

If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.

Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright. 

Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry.  Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone.  No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.

Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all.  Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.

In order to reach the final, Mayo would have played the Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster champions!

And lost to two of them!  ;)