Poll
Question:
Are you in favour of retaining the Super 8's series?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 22
Option 2: No, go back to knockout quarter finals
votes: 47
Two years into a three year experiment (apparently). There was a tweak after year one, and talk of more tweaks after year two.
So, are you in favour of retaining the Super 8 series, or would you prefer to go back to knockout quarter finals?
Just wondered what the feeling on it was.
On the system itself, I'd probably be a no although having big games in provincial venues is very good
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
I thought that they were a bad idea to begin with and I have seen nothing to change my mind. Predictable, flat and boring the only people that benefit from it are the stronger counties with bigger squads, the GAA with the extra TV revenue and the increasing horde of media pundits who get some extra coin by hyping up and talking to death about the games.
Bar a handful of matches they have been largely forgettable matches and it is near impossible for a smaller county now to make a significant breakthrough.
Quote from: yellowcard on August 06, 2019, 04:00:00 PM
I thought that they were a bad idea to begin with and I have seen nothing to change my mind. Predictable, flat and boring the only people that benefit from it are the stronger counties with bigger squads, the GAA with the extra TV revenue and the increasing horde of media pundits who get some extra coin by hyping up and talking to death about the games.
Bar a handful of matches they have been largely forgettable matches and it is near impossible for a smaller county now to make a significant breakthrough.
Keep it
In the last year of the qtr finals there were 3 hammerings and a draw between Mayo and Roscommon with Mayo hammering Roscommon in the replay. Unfortunately there are not 8 evenly matched top sides. At least with the Super 8s you get games going to provincal towns.
Dubs neutral game should be anywhere but Croke Park
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
I can imagine most if not all of those tweaks will be done for the final year of this trial period surely those at the top can use their common sense? and if those tweaks become a success i would expect it to be retained for another few years at least.
Plusses-
games in Provincial Stadia
A team can recover from a bad day at the office
Extra €€a
Minuses -
Dead Rubbers
2,356 at a Qtr Final
2 home games for Dublin while another Provincial Champion get 2 away games
Too late in a Competition to have a Group stage.
However I think they should be given their 3rd year with the tweaks outlined by Blowitup and Dublin 7 and then decide.
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.
Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
One or two draws in Rd1 means open draw for Rd 2. Not complicated at all.
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
Correct and rather than putting on a sticking plaster with talking about tweaks to Super 8's, the entire structure needs ripped up completely. The Super 8's is only but one small issue. Anybody who was being introduced to the GAA for the first time would struggle to comprehend the injustices of the fixtures and competition fairness after being told what it entailed. It would need the provincial system to be abolished or at least no longer linked to a 32 county AI championship.
If you've two draws then nobody can be knockout by losing in Rd 2, bar I suppose a team getting a serious hammering. If one Rd 1 game is a draw then neither of those teams can be knocked out in Rd 2 so you're guaranteed at least one do or game in that group in Rd 3.
I think there's a strong argument against the super 8's being the best format but not if the only alternative is the old QF's after the qualifiers.
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
In an ideal world it would be an open draw with the group stage at the start and then knock out qtrs/semis etc.
Unfortunately there is no way the people on the provincial councils would give up their power. Their attitude is along the lines of it worked for last 90 years so why change now....
Quote from: dublin7 on August 06, 2019, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
In an ideal world it would be an open draw with the group stage at the start and then knock out qtrs/semis etc.
Unfortunately there is no way the people on the provincial councils would give up their power. Their attitude is along the lines of it worked for last 90 years so why change now....
Would also create a problem for a team's home fixture.
Let's take this year's Group 2.
Rd 1 Provincial champs at home...Tyrone and Dublin beat Roscommon and Cork.
Rd 2 at neutral venues Tyrone v Dublin and Roscommon v Cork.
Rd 3 has Tyrone due to meet Cork, but neither team has had a home game yet, while either Dublin or Roscommon will have a second home game or a second neutral game.
Quote from: dublin7 on August 06, 2019, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
In an ideal world it would be an open draw with the group stage at the start and then knock out qtrs/semis etc.
Unfortunately there is no way the people on the provincial councils would give up their power. Their attitude is along the lines of it worked for last 90 years so why change now....
That sounds like an argument a loyalist bonfire builder would say. Although you're right.
The gaa need to grab the nettle though. The whole c'ship is a farce, and it needs a total rehash.
http://spailpin.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-hateful-eights.html
"The end of the GAA as we know it"
Enough said.
By the way Bennycake there were loads of big games in Provincial Stadia before the Qtr Finals.
I don't see any problem with the Super 8 system. The current 4 teams who have qualified are the best 4 in Ireland. No other team can have any complaints.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 06, 2019, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
In an ideal world it would be an open draw with the group stage at the start and then knock out qtrs/semis etc.
Unfortunately there is no way the people on the provincial councils would give up their power. Their attitude is along the lines of it worked for last 90 years so why change now....
Would also create a problem for a team's home fixture.
Let's take this year's Group 2.
Rd 1 Provincial champs at home...Tyrone and Dublin beat Roscommon and Cork.
Rd 2 at neutral venues Tyrone v Dublin and Roscommon v Cork.
Rd 3 has Tyrone due to meet Cork, but neither team has had a home game yet, while either Dublin or Roscommon will have a second home game or a second neutral game.
No, provincial champs play each other in neutral ground, regardless of whether it's R2 or R3.
So in your example, in round 2, Tyrone and Cork would have been at home. R3 neutral.
Quote from: Hound on August 06, 2019, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 04:54:06 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on August 06, 2019, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 06, 2019, 04:31:29 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 02:58:01 PM
Retain with tweaks.
1) Provincial champs still at home in Rd 1.
2) Rd 2 at neutral venues - winners of Rd 1 meet, losers of Rd 1 meet.
3) Two weeks between Rd 3 and semifinal. The hurling final could be this weekend (11 Aug) and football semifinals on 18 Aug.
If there is a draw in a Rd1 match, a complication.
Or two draws? Then what?
Gerard okane made a good point, he says if you have to be continually making tweaks to something, then you have to wonder if it's worth bothering with in the first place.
I'd get rid. Not only of Super 8 but the whole C'ship format. Big games in county grounds can and should happen throughout the chship not just at the QF stage.
In an ideal world it would be an open draw with the group stage at the start and then knock out qtrs/semis etc.
Unfortunately there is no way the people on the provincial councils would give up their power. Their attitude is along the lines of it worked for last 90 years so why change now....
Would also create a problem for a team's home fixture.
Let's take this year's Group 2.
Rd 1 Provincial champs at home...Tyrone and Dublin beat Roscommon and Cork.
Rd 2 at neutral venues Tyrone v Dublin and Roscommon v Cork.
Rd 3 has Tyrone due to meet Cork, but neither team has had a home game yet, while either Dublin or Roscommon will have a second home game or a second neutral game.
No, provincial champs play each other in neutral ground, regardless of whether it's R2 or R3.
So in your example, in round 2, Tyrone and Cork would have been at home. R3 neutral.
Rd 1 Ross v Tyrone in The Hyde, Dublin v Cork in Croker
Rd 2 Tyrone v Dublin in Omagh, Ross v Cork in Cork
Rd 3 Tyrone v Cork neutral venue, Dublin v Ross neutral venue.
Does that make a better Super 8? I suppose (copyright Tomas O'Se) it does, lookit.
Group 1 would have played out exactly as it did...right?
Rd 1 Kerry v Mayo in Killarney, Donegal v Meath in Donegal
Rd2 Kerry v Donegal neutral venue, Mayo v Meath neutral venue
Rd 3 Meath v Kerry in Navan, Mayo v Donegal in Castlebar.
Quote from: highorlow on August 06, 2019, 04:56:17 PM
http://spailpin.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-hateful-eights.html
Good read, no sugar coating and calling things as it is. The hateful eights a very appropriate name.
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at every farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on August 06, 2019, 05:48:16 PM
I don't see any problem with the Super 8 system. The current 4 teams who have qualified are the best 4 in Ireland. No other team can have any complaints.
Roscommon can. Donegal can.
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright.
Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry. Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone. No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.
Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all. Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 06, 2019, 10:09:54 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on August 06, 2019, 05:48:16 PM
I don't see any problem with the Super 8 system. The current 4 teams who have qualified are the best 4 in Ireland. No other team can have any complaints.
Roscommon can. Donegal can.
Roscommon can't, any other year they'd have been out after being best by Tyrone anyway, then got tanked by the Dubs. They're a good side but just a step below the top 5 at the minute. Donegal can have complaints as they beat Tyrone this year already and have only lost once compared to Mayo's 2 defeats, but thats just the way it goes, they had their chance to beat Mayo but the better team won.
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.
A 'Super 4s' would offer more games, less predictability, and a greater profile than the current knockout semi-final arrangement. But no one wants that. And no one wants in because it would be a ridiculous arrangement at such an advanced stage of the championship. Elitist, ungainly, unnecessary.
The Super 8s is a very barely more palatable situation. The sooner it's gone the better.
Quote from: Armagh18 on August 06, 2019, 11:01:18 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 06, 2019, 10:09:54 PM
Quote from: SouthDublinBro on August 06, 2019, 05:48:16 PM
I don't see any problem with the Super 8 system. The current 4 teams who have qualified are the best 4 in Ireland. No other team can have any complaints.
Roscommon can. Donegal can.
Roscommon can't, any other year they'd have been out after being best by Tyrone anyway, then got tanked by the Dubs. They're a good side but just a step below the top 5 at the minute. Donegal can have complaints as they beat Tyrone this year already and have only lost once compared to Mayo's 2 defeats, but thats just the way it goes, they had their chance to beat Mayo but the better team won.
I've seen this mentioned a few places - surely this is a complaint against the back door rather than the Super 8?
Mayo lost to Roscommon, and as penance they had to play Down, Armagh and Galway. Once that was achieved, the slate was wiped clean.
Both teams lost one game in the S8, with one team winning 2 and the other winning only one.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright.
Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry. Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone. No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.
Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all. Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.
In order to reach the final, Mayo would have played the Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster champions!
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 07, 2019, 02:34:38 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright.
Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry. Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone. No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.
Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all. Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.
In order to reach the final, Mayo would have played the Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster champions!
To round it out - Dublin will have played two teams who will be in Div 3 next year (Louth and Cork), 2 teams who will be in Div 2 next year (Kildare and Roscommon), a team that was in Div 2 this year (Meath), plus the beaten semi-finalists from both Connacht (Mayo) and Ulster (Tyrone). Why are they odds on again?
I'd like to return to the quarter finals with provincial champions getting home advantage or able to choose a nominated home venue.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 09:24:25 PM
Rd 1 Ross v Tyrone in The Hyde, Dublin v Cork in Croker
Rd 2 Tyrone v Dublin in Omagh, Ross v Cork in Cork
Rd 3 Tyrone v Cork neutral venue, Dublin v Ross neutral venue.
Does that make a better Super 8? I suppose (copyright Tomas O'Se) it does, lookit.
Course it does.
R2 in Omagh would have been a proper game and Ross v Cork playing for their lives. Interestingly if those results stayed the same, you'd have had Dublin 4, Ros 2, Tyrone 2, Cork 0, going into the last phase.
But Dublin odds-on to beat Ross, which means Cork know if they beat Tyrone all 3 other teams end up on 2 points, so down to scoring difference. Every team still in with a fighting chance of qualifying.
And Dublin couldn't have afforded to rest 10/12 men given they'd be playing a very much still alive Roscommon and the Dubs could still have missed out if the lost (i.e. Ros and Tyrone win and they end up on 4 points, level with Dublin, so top 2 is decided by scoring difference).
At the end of the day, Dublin and Tyrone would most likely have still qualified in 1st and 2nd, but there would have been a lot more excitement surrounding it
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.
Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.
Kerry v Donegal, Mayo v Donegal and Tyrone v Cork were good games.
Donegal v Meath, Mayo v Meath, Kerry v Mayo, Kerry v Meath, Roscommon v Tyrone and Dublin v Cork were decent but results not really in doubt.
Cork v Roscommon was decent but meaningless. Tyrone v Dublin was a farce. Dublin v Roscommon was an annihilation.
So 3/12 games were good in my view. Just 25%. And the full last round in one group was pointless.
It's just a money generation exercise.
When Ground rents were paid for the games in Omagh, Ballybofey, Hyde etc would the series have netted any more €€€s for Central GAA than the old Quarter Finals?
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season.
They still mattered. Tyrone and Wexford's amazing wins in 2008 and Dublin's in 2010 would have counted for feck all under the Hateful 8s system. The heaps of dung we saw over the weekend didn't.
Quote from: five points on August 07, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season.
They still mattered. Tyrone and Wexford's amazing wins in 2008 and Dublin's in 2010 would have counted for feck all under the Hateful 8s system. The heaps of dung we saw over the weekend didn't.
All great matches, but for me there's too much Kerry v Kildare 2015, Tyrone v Armagh 2017, Dublin v anyone etc.
Quote from: hardstation on August 07, 2019, 10:23:17 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on August 07, 2019, 10:20:21 AM
Quote from: five points on August 07, 2019, 10:11:18 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season.
They still mattered. Tyrone and Wexford's amazing wins in 2008 and Dublin's in 2010 would have counted for feck all under the Hateful 8s system. The heaps of dung we saw over the weekend didn't.
All great matches, but for me there's too much Kerry v Kildare 2015, Tyrone v Armagh 2017, Dublin v anyone etc.
The Super 8s makes this worse. If a shite team makes it, they get 3 trimmings instead of 1.
Totally agree and AIQF is a huge prize, better than getting to the super 8's for teams as the potential to cause an upset is very real.
No. Just another way to make money, and back to quarter finals as before. I even look at reverting to the old league system from 25yrs ago where top 2 in the league go to quarter final stage. The current system sees the strong play the strong in div 1 and get further ahead of the rest. The old way had a variety of teams makings quarter finals in league
Super 8s are too elitist.
Go with 8 groups of 4, seeded based on the league (pick a different team every year to go off on a junket to New York for a 'play-off').
With each group of 4, 4th seed get home games v top 2 seeds, and neutral venue v 3rd seed.
Take top 4 from each province based on pts and points difference to play-off the provincial c'ships over two weekends.
Top 2 from each group go into All-Ireland knockout, 1st round seeded - winners v runners up, open draw after that.
3rd and 4th from each group go into a properly supported 'B' c'ship, properly marketed, shown on TV, decent prize plus a carrot like a 3 year exemption in 'A' c'ship.
If a provincial winner comes from a 3rd or 4th place team, they still get to play in the 'A' c'ship.
So every team gets a chance of winning both a provincial title and the All-Ireland, the provincial c'ships still relevant, weaker teams get more games and have no away games.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 07, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.
Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.
Kerry v Donegal, Mayo v Donegal and Tyrone v Cork were good games.
Donegal v Meath, Mayo v Meath, Kerry v Mayo, Kerry v Meath, Roscommon v Tyrone and Dublin v Cork were decent but results not really in doubt.
Cork v Roscommon was decent but meaningless. Tyrone v Dublin was a farce. Dublin v Roscommon was an annihilation.
So 3/12 games were good in my view. Just 25%. And the full last round in one group was pointless.
It's just a money generation exercise.
Wouldn't class Donegal v Mayo as a good game. A contest with 26 wides and many more shots kicked into the keeper hands. A match that was in the balance up to injury time but it was a error ridden contest not helped of course by the poor weather conditions.
Quote from: magpie seanie on August 07, 2019, 09:01:17 AM
Quote from: Zulu on August 06, 2019, 04:28:19 PM
Quote from: five points on August 06, 2019, 03:45:29 PM
I'd scrap them. The long weekend of knockout quarter finals used to be great.
This is one of the issues with those wanting to scrap the super 8's as this simply isn't true. The All Ireland QF's were often a very disappointing weekend and put a real dampener on the football season. Of the games played in the super 8's this year most of them were good and we got a number of massive occasions and important do or die games. The tweaks proposed in this thread would solve some of the issues that come with the super 8's. How anyone can say the super 8's are making the strong stronger after two years of the competition and a number of different teams making it to teh super 8's is beyond me. There isn't a system that wouldn't currenty have Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Kerry and Mayo getting to the QF stage of an All Ireland most years because they are clearly in the top 8 in Ireland.
Meath, Armagh, Cork and Roscommon are improving teams and Kildare with all their missing players back would be another team who'll be stronger next year. What benefit is it to the sport as a whole, plyers, managers or fans to going back to the old knockout? Less games, greater predictability and lower profile for the sport and for what? I just can't understand the negativity about the super 8's when the only alternative is the old knockout system.
Kerry v Donegal, Mayo v Donegal and Tyrone v Cork were good games.
Donegal v Meath, Mayo v Meath, Kerry v Mayo, Kerry v Meath, Roscommon v Tyrone and Dublin v Cork were decent but results not really in doubt.
Cork v Roscommon was decent but meaningless. Tyrone v Dublin was a farce. Dublin v Roscommon was an annihilation.
So 3/12 games were good in my view. Just 25%. And the full last round in one group was pointless.
It's just a money generation exercise.
That's a fair analysis, and if they'd got the order correct in the Dublin group, it would have eliminated at least 2 of the farces. That would have been 3 good games and 8 decent games out of 12. Harsh to complain about that. Fact of the matter is that even ignoring Dublin, you have Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo and Donegal a fair whack ahead of everybody else this year (barring injuries).
Under the previous system, the QFs would have been:
Dublin v Cork
Kerry v Meath
Roscommon v Tyrone
Donegal v Mayo
How would that have been for a double-double bill over the bank holiday weekend? All but the last would have been over as a contest with 20 minutes to go.
This year the Super 8 was better than the alternative and now there should be 2 very good semi finals.
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright.
Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry. Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone. No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.
Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all. Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.
Antrim, Longford and Kildare not count.
Quote from: t_mac on August 07, 2019, 02:40:11 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright.
Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry. Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone. No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.
Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all. Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.
Antrim, Longford and Kildare not count.
Them too.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 07, 2019, 02:34:38 AM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 06, 2019, 10:11:00 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on August 06, 2019, 10:05:16 PM
Teams and fans are already pissed about enough in the qualifiers, with games being arranged at 3 or 4 days notice. Now you want it to happen in Super 8's as well
If you have to t**ker about with it at each farts end, it's clearly a stupid concept.
Budget for 3 quarter final games is a bit much to ask alright.
Still an impressive run of games for teams...if Tyrone get to the final this year they will have played Derry, Donegal, Roscommon, Cork, Dublin and Kerry. Kerry's list would be Clare, Cork, Mayo, Donegal, Meath and Tyrone. No matter who wins on Sunday, each team will have had an impressive list of opponents.
Not like Kerry in 1997, when it took wins over Tipperary, Clare , Cavan and Mayo to win it all. Or 1980's three wins - Cork, Offaly and Roscommon.
In order to reach the final, Mayo would have played the Connacht, Munster, Ulster and Leinster champions!
And lost to two of them! ;)
Yes. It needs to be retained. Gives a county like Mayo two chances to lose Championship games and reach an All Ireland semi final where one of the most supported countries in the country get to spend more money and find out why they lost the two earlier games.
Yes, but provincial champions get home games in week 3.
Would prefer if they were scrapped - not because of the mis-matches in the S8, or even because of the dead rubbers, but the whole Championship needs to run as if it were one competition, not something that was put together.
The addition of the S8 has put the entire thing out of whack.
When the qualifiers were introduced in 2001, Galway played 8 games, losing their second game to Roscommon.
No of days between games were 14, 27, 7, 15, 13, 22 & 28
This year, to compare like with like, compare Mayo's fixtures to Galway 2001. Mayo lost their second game to Roscommon
No of days between games were 20, 27, 7, 7, 8, 7, 13, 7 & 22
Mayo's first game is 15 days earlier and the final is 6 days earlier so there are an additional 2 games a timeframe of 1 week less.
The addition of the S8 and reduced turnarounds at the business end of the season has made it much more difficult to win from the qualifier route than when the qualifiers were originally drawn up. Of course, this makes the lopsided provinces more important.
The only logical way to deal with it would be to remove the provincial championships from the all-ireland series entirely - I would be in favour of scrapping them but not sure that would get enough support.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 09, 2019, 03:27:30 AM
Would prefer if they were scrapped - not because of the mis-matches in the S8, or even because of the dead rubbers, but the whole Championship needs to run as if it were one competition, not something that was put together.
The addition of the S8 has put the entire thing out of whack.
When the qualifiers were introduced in 2001, Galway played 8 games, losing their second game to Roscommon.
No of days between games were 14, 27, 7, 15, 13, 22 & 28
This year, to compare like with like, compare Mayo's fixtures to Galway 2001. Mayo lost their second game to Roscommon
No of days between games were 20, 27, 7, 7, 8, 7, 13, 7 & 22
Mayo's first game is 15 days earlier and the final is 6 days earlier so there are an additional 2 games a timeframe of 1 week less.
The addition of the S8 and reduced turnarounds at the business end of the season has made it much more difficult to win from the qualifier route than when the qualifiers were originally drawn up. Of course, this makes the lopsided provinces more important.
The only logical way to deal with it would be to remove the provincial championships from the all-ireland series entirely - I would be in favour of scrapping them but not sure that would get enough support.
Attaboy ;) ;D
Quote from: cuconnacht on August 09, 2019, 06:14:14 AM
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on August 09, 2019, 03:27:30 AM
Would prefer if they were scrapped - not because of the mis-matches in the S8, or even because of the dead rubbers, but the whole Championship needs to run as if it were one competition, not something that was put together.
The addition of the S8 has put the entire thing out of whack.
When the qualifiers were introduced in 2001, Galway played 8 games, losing their second game to Roscommon.
No of days between games were 14, 27, 7, 15, 13, 22 & 28
This year, to compare like with like, compare Mayo's fixtures to Galway 2001. Mayo lost their second game to Roscommon
No of days between games were 20, 27, 7, 7, 8, 7, 13, 7 & 22
Mayo's first game is 15 days earlier and the final is 6 days earlier so there are an additional 2 games a timeframe of 1 week less.
The addition of the S8 and reduced turnarounds at the business end of the season has made it much more difficult to win from the qualifier route than when the qualifiers were originally drawn up. Of course, this makes the lopsided provinces more important.
The only logical way to deal with it would be to remove the provincial championships from the all-ireland series entirely - I would be in favour of scrapping them but not sure that would get enough support.
Attaboy ;) ;D
;)
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/super-8-tweaks-planned-to-avoid-potential-dead-rubbers-944278.html
What a load of balls.
So, Tyrone v Cork in Portlaoise will have more fans than Tyrone v Cork in Croke Park?
Plus, surely if Dublin are playing home matches at Croke Park, then isn't 6 days notice too short? What if there's a concert, hurling, etc there?
The Super 8's have failed. Stop flogging that dead horse.
The paradox of the GAA is that there aren't 8 decent teams because of the imbalance in funding.
The whole thing needs to be reset.
What do the GAA actually want ? Do they want a championship or just loads of Dubs playing football instead of soccer?
The Super 8s haven't helped average attendances either.
Youd have a great series between teams 2 to 9 and send Dublin off to the Australian FL.
Quote from: seafoid on August 16, 2019, 11:54:57 AM
The paradox of the GAA is that there aren't 8 decent teams because of the imbalance in funding.
The whole thing needs to be reset.
What do the GAA actually want ? Do they want a championship or just loads of Dubs playing football instead of soccer?
The Super 8s haven't helped average attendances either.
It hasn't and one of the prime reasons it was introduced was to improve attendance figures. Those at the top shot themselves in the foot though with the price of tickets and then you have the price hike on semi finals. Round robin group games should have package deal of say 60 to see all three games.
The top tiers in Croke Park and the canal end shouldn't be the same price as the middle/lower of the Cussack and hogan stand. GAA must be one of the few sports that price its tickets like that?
I find it bizarre that we have the resemblance of a league format after a straight knock-out competition only to go back to a straight knock out. I do not think the overall format of the All Ireland helps weaker teams develop as many of them will only get 2 games a season. In addition to this, a lot of counties don't even get the opportunity to play football in Croke Park.
Why not start off with a 4 Divisional championships that consists of 8 teams, top 4 in each division stay in the All Ireland and progress to straight knock out competition. The bottom 4 are placed in a 2nd tier championship.
- Counties are the seeded based on their previous years performance or on league performance. If it were to be based on previous years performance there may be an incentive for teams to perform in a 2nd tier competition.
- Each division consists of 2 tier 1,2,3 and 4 teams.
Counties that finish in positions 5-8 of their divisional championship could then be placed in a second tier championship if the GAA are serious about pushing this.
Benefits
> Many counties will get to play more than 2 games in the championship
> Evens out games played in the championship
> Gives lower ranked teams the opportunity to play at Croke Park
> Opportunity to develop county teams
The thread has turned into yet another "what the inter-county championship should look like" thread.
What's interesting is that the new fixtures' committee is doing its work with the president hopeful that a second-tier championship will be in place, yet with the "Super 8s" due to finish up next year after its three year experiment, has any guidance been given to this committee with regards to how the last eight teams will compete from 2020 onwards?
Has it crossed the president's mind I wonder.
If the Tier 2 comes in presumably Tier 1 will have a 1st Round with 8 teams, then a 2nd Round where the Provincial losers play the 4 Round 1 winners?
That Committee was told to come up with 3 sets of Proposals and not be afraid of "sacred cows" in doing so.
I expect they started with Tommy Kenoy's Blank sheet and are taking it from there.
Of course the Committee should have been set up 3 years ago to Review e everything.
Instead we had a few one offs ..
1 we decided to tighten up the Inter Co Championship schedules
2 we decided to add 2 Rounds to the SFC
3 The Hurley crowd got concerned then and added 3 extra rounds to the Provincial SHCs.
4 Uachtarán CLG pushed for a T2 SFC to come in 2 thirds of the way through the new SFC.
And then we set up a Review Committee..
Quote from: BennyCake on August 16, 2019, 11:41:52 AM
What a load of balls.
So, Tyrone v Cork in Portlaoise will have more fans than Tyrone v Cork in Croke Park?
Plus, surely if Dublin are playing home matches at Croke Park, then isn't 6 days notice too short? What if there's a concert, hurling, etc there?
The Super 8's have failed. Stop flogging that dead horse.
Tyrone vs Cork 2018 was in Carlow, and it's debatable whether the crowd would have been any bigger in Croke ;)
I think T Ó Sé's argument makes sense -- we're being flung around the parishes (not even the provinces any more) with these Super 8 fixtures already, and in any case, what matter if venues are in flux until after the first game of the Super 8s?
Though do agree that the whole Super 8s thing needs to be reviewed, and sharpish.
Where's a long winded Padraic Duffy "everything's great festival of football " interview when you need one!