The Palestine thread

Started by give her dixie, October 17, 2012, 01:29:42 PM

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seafoid

Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:33:42 PM
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

"Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."

Sweet cakes were handed out in celebration in Gaza's main hospital, which has been inundated with wounded from the round-the-clock Israeli bombing and shelling.

"GATES OF HELL"

"You opened the gates of hell on yourselves," Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam brigades, said on Twitter. "Oh Zionists, you have to drag yourselves out of hell, go back home now, go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, America and anywhere else."
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 08:24:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 08:02:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2012, 06:37:40 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland?

You're doing a great job of showing just how unable you are to be balanced by refusing to engage. Here's a quote for you from Hamas ...

IT would be fantastic if Hamas were like Fine Gael and they wore suits and went to mass on Sundays.  But they come from Gaza. And you know if you look at Irish history Hamas aren't that different in outlook to the people who wrote the constitution in 1937. Fundamentalism can happen anywhere. You have to understand what Israel has done to Gaza in terms of de-development and how this  turned many people to religion.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2538308?uid=3737760&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101403997591

But do any of your quotes above legalise what Israel does to Gaza? Of course not.
And you never answered my abortion question either.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Itchy

What's your question got to do with this thread?

I love how you are so understanding of Hamas fundamentalist. Could same argument not be made for the Jews, almost wiped out by a genocide and hell bent on building a country no matter what. Both are bullshit positions but seems you are only able to say one side does wrong.

tyssam5

Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:53:46 PM
What's your question got to do with this thread?

I love how you are so understanding of Hamas fundamentalist. Could same argument not be made for the Jews, almost wiped out by a genocide and hell bent on building a country no matter what. Both are bullshit positions but seems you are only able to say one side does wrong.

It could be argued that it's less of a bullshit position to be hell bent on building a country if you've been living in that place for hundred or thousands of years as opposed to returning after a 2000 year gap.

Itchy

Quote from: tyssam5 on November 21, 2012, 10:57:09 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:53:46 PM
What's your question got to do with this thread?

I love how you are so understanding of Hamas fundamentalist. Could same argument not be made for the Jews, almost wiped out by a genocide and hell bent on building a country no matter what. Both are bullshit positions but seems you are only able to say one side does wrong.

It could be argued that it's less of a bullshit position to be hell bent on building a country if you've been living in that place for hundred or thousands of years as opposed to returning after a 2000 year gap.

Yes and I'd agree with that but doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade when talking about Hamas. Seafood seems to think everything is excusable because Israel is a rogue murderous state. I say everything is not excused. Its only a shane the cowardly yanks and toothless UN dont kick Israel out of the UN. Our cowardly government should have expelled their nasty little ambassador too.

give her dixie

Well, after 8 days of uncalled for madness, a ceasefire has been reached and hopefully, no further loss of life or injury will take place for a long time. Given Hamas has agreed a deal with Israel through Egypt, means they have to keep their word with Egypt if they stand any chance of opening up the Rafah crossing for increased trade and passenger movement. Israel has to keep their side due to the US giving their word to Egypt. Whoever blinks 1st and breaks the ceasefire, then there will be a big row for sure.

Tonight in Gaza they are celebrating wildly. They fought the might of the 4th best equipped army in the world. They fought them with rockets that for the largest part, fell on empty land. They drove fear into the heart of Israel for 8 solid days. That was the only weapons they hard to fight back with. Bibi called up 75,000 troops and marched them to the top of the hill. Combined with the standing army, they numbered close to 100,000. Not even this threat scared them, and Bibi had to march them all back down again tonight.

They go home wounded, and judging by the look on Bibi's face tonight, he looked a very beaten man. He backed out of the ceasefire last night and had 24 hours where he pounded the strip from one end to the other. Today he got pulled into line and told to stop. He let Clinton down big time yesterday as an agreement was reached and she was to announce it. He backed out and the US were raging. The body language of Clinton last night told it all. Today she stayed in Cairo and announced it with the Egyptian Prime Minister.

Sadly though, a high price was paid. Over 150 people died, the majority women and children. The images of the young children will stay with me forever. Families destroyed, and a level of pain we could never imagine feeling. Over 1,000 are injured, and many of them have serious wounds. Dime bombs cause serious internal injuries, as they are the preferred weapon of choice for the IDF.

In the past 18 months Israel would have killed as many people. Their deaths never made the news, and it never changed anything. When the same number die in 8 days, then the world notices.

Maybe, just maybe, their deaths could be the last for a long time, and people can build on this going forward. The last 8 days brought the plight of Palestinians to the attention of a lot of people, and they got to see how ruthless and cruel Israel were. They showed no respect as they killed and bombed at will, and did so without any condemnation from the west. However, when you think of it, how could the west say anything when we look back at their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

While the main stream media were there reporting, it was twitter and facebook where the news flowed. People were live tweeting 24/7. Every attack was reported instantly. Within minutes you find out what damage was done, and if there were any injured. Within another 15 minutes, photos would appear. The main stream media would be reporting it 2 hours later. Live streams were set up and live broadcasts of the Gaza skyline were streamed. Some nights it was frighting to hear the ongoing aerial bombardment. Israel lost the PR war on this one, and every lie they told was de bunked in minutes. There was no hiding the truth on the internet.

A lot of fingers were pointing at who started it. For me, the minute they hit the car last Wednesday and killed a top man, they lit the fuse. They knew that Hamas would hit back, and then they could go crazy. Funny that as the days went on, reporters seemed to forget this and blamed the rockets for the trouble. They also forgot about the boys that were killed a few days before that. This thread is running for a while now. There has been a lot of posts going back over the weeks that shows you what was going on in the build up to this. This attack was well planned by Israel, and it was expected.

Hamas will come out of this stronger than ever. Ismail Haniya is a very popular man in Gaza, and over the last few years, he has gone from strength to strength in the face of so many hurdles. I feel he is a good man to lead them over the next few years. Fatah are going down hill rapidly, and Abbas has lost a serious amount of respect recently.

Israel found out this time that they are dealing with a different landscape now, and they are not going to get their own way too easy again. Egypt is a powerful force, and they took the lead in this one. There was no way in hell that Egypt would have stood by for a minute if Israel had of sent in the ground troops. Turkey too stood up as they are still seeking an apology for the deaths on Mavi Marmara. Others in the region stood up as well, and combined, they sent out a strong message that things had changed.

I know full well from my experiences in Gaza that they want to live in peace. They love life, and they have suffered enough. If Israel would only lift the siege and allow them to live a normal life, then not only would they be happy, but the whole middle east would be the better for it.

Lets hope the news from Gaza for a while will be a whole lot better, and Seafoid and I can post something different for a change. Tonight my anger has changed to hope, and i'm looking forward to the coming weeks and months to see the changes.

Sure how can they fail now, they have Stew behind them  ;)

next stop, September 10, for number 4......

stew

Are you not glad that their rockets fell without killing people GHD? I know I am, I just wish the Israeli's weapons did the same.

Hey, nice crack at the end there bud, hey, when I am wrong at least I will come out and say so. :-[
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

Íseal agus crua isteach a

Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2012, 06:37:40 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(
Agree with you 100%. If people wanted to strike a blow for Ireland the first thing I would do would be level RTE studios. Shameless shower. The British mouth piece in Ireland. If memory serves me right I think they had sensor ship on Sinn Fein years before the BBC. Western media is mostly controlled by world order pathological liers its how they keep control, brain washing people.

I'm glad there is a ceasefire for now but Israel being Israel still killed people after it was announced. Sky still full of drones and f16's tonight as well. Dose anyone know if the blockage is still in place?

That's a sad story GHD a bout the dad coming back and finding his family all dead. I just feel so sad for the people of Palestine they have a very very tough existence. 

tyssam5

Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on November 22, 2012, 03:44:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2012, 06:37:40 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(
Agree with you 100%. If people wanted to strike a blow for Ireland the first thing I would do would be level RTE studios. Shameless shower. The British mouth piece in Ireland. If memory serves me right I think they had sensor ship on Sinn Fein years before the BBC. Western media is mostly controlled by world order pathological liers its how they keep control, brain washing people.

I'm glad there is a ceasefire for now but Israel being Israel still killed people after it was announced. Sky still full of drones and f16's tonight as well. Dose anyone know if the blockage is still in place?

That's a sad story GHD a bout the dad coming back and finding his family all dead. I just feel so sad for the people of Palestine they have a very very tough existence.

True but government decision as opposed to RTE  think.

seafoid

Quote from: give her dixie on November 22, 2012, 12:29:20 AM
Well, after 8 days of uncalled for madness, a ceasefire has been reached and hopefully, no further loss of life or injury will take place for a long time. Given Hamas has agreed a deal with Israel through Egypt, means they have to keep their word with Egypt if they stand any chance of opening up the Rafah crossing for increased trade and passenger movement. Israel has to keep their side due to the US giving their word to Egypt. Whoever blinks 1st and breaks the ceasefire, then there will be a big row for sure.

Tonight in Gaza they are celebrating wildly. They fought the might of the 4th best equipped army in the world. They fought them with rockets that for the largest part, fell on empty land. They drove fear into the heart of Israel for 8 solid days. That was the only weapons they hard to fight back with. Bibi called up 75,000 troops and marched them to the top of the hill. Combined with the standing army, they numbered close to 100,000. Not even this threat scared them, and Bibi had to march them all back down again tonight.

They go home wounded, and judging by the look on Bibi's face tonight, he looked a very beaten man. He backed out of the ceasefire last night and had 24 hours where he pounded the strip from one end to the other. Today he got pulled into line and told to stop. He let Clinton down big time yesterday as an agreement was reached and she was to announce it. He backed out and the US were raging. The body language of Clinton last night told it all. Today she stayed in Cairo and announced it with the Egyptian Prime Minister.

Sadly though, a high price was paid. Over 150 people died, the majority women and children. The images of the young children will stay with me forever. Families destroyed, and a level of pain we could never imagine feeling. Over 1,000 are injured, and many of them have serious wounds. Dime bombs cause serious internal injuries, as they are the preferred weapon of choice for the IDF.

In the past 18 months Israel would have killed as many people. Their deaths never made the news, and it never changed anything. When the same number die in 8 days, then the world notices.

Maybe, just maybe, their deaths could be the last for a long time, and people can build on this going forward. The last 8 days brought the plight of Palestinians to the attention of a lot of people, and they got to see how ruthless and cruel Israel were. They showed no respect as they killed and bombed at will, and did so without any condemnation from the west. However, when you think of it, how could the west say anything when we look back at their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

While the main stream media were there reporting, it was twitter and facebook where the news flowed. People were live tweeting 24/7. Every attack was reported instantly. Within minutes you find out what damage was done, and if there were any injured. Within another 15 minutes, photos would appear. The main stream media would be reporting it 2 hours later. Live streams were set up and live broadcasts of the Gaza skyline were streamed. Some nights it was frighting to hear the ongoing aerial bombardment. Israel lost the PR war on this one, and every lie they told was de bunked in minutes. There was no hiding the truth on the internet.

A lot of fingers were pointing at who started it. For me, the minute they hit the car last Wednesday and killed a top man, they lit the fuse. They knew that Hamas would hit back, and then they could go crazy. Funny that as the days went on, reporters seemed to forget this and blamed the rockets for the trouble. They also forgot about the boys that were killed a few days before that. This thread is running for a while now. There has been a lot of posts going back over the weeks that shows you what was going on in the build up to this. This attack was well planned by Israel, and it was expected.

Hamas will come out of this stronger than ever. Ismail Haniya is a very popular man in Gaza, and over the last few years, he has gone from strength to strength in the face of so many hurdles. I feel he is a good man to lead them over the next few years. Fatah are going down hill rapidly, and Abbas has lost a serious amount of respect recently.

Israel found out this time that they are dealing with a different landscape now, and they are not going to get their own way too easy again. Egypt is a powerful force, and they took the lead in this one. There was no way in hell that Egypt would have stood by for a minute if Israel had of sent in the ground troops. Turkey too stood up as they are still seeking an apology for the deaths on Mavi Marmara. Others in the region stood up as well, and combined, they sent out a strong message that things had changed.

I know full well from my experiences in Gaza that they want to live in peace. They love life, and they have suffered enough. If Israel would only lift the siege and allow them to live a normal life, then not only would they be happy, but the whole middle east would be the better for it.

Lets hope the news from Gaza for a while will be a whole lot better, and Seafoid and I can post something different for a change. Tonight my anger has changed to hope, and i'm looking forward to the coming weeks and months to see the changes.

Sure how can they fail now, they have Stew behind them  ;)

Unless the system changes nothing meaningful will change.
Israel has de developed Gaza since 1967.  There is very little work. The people can't get decent job experience.
Hamas can't do anything about that. The system run by Israel is rotten.

What is clear is that the status quo is unsustainable but there is no way to see how to get onto a different path where everyone gets a shot at a fair deal. 
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

LeoMc

Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 10:44:00 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:33:42 PM
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri hailed the explosion.

"Hamas blesses the attack in Tel Aviv and sees it as a natural response to the Israeli massacres...in Gaza," he told Reuters. "Palestinian factions will resort to all means in order to protect our Palestinian civilians in the absence of a world effort to stop the Israeli aggression."

Sweet cakes were handed out in celebration in Gaza's main hospital, which has been inundated with wounded from the round-the-clock Israeli bombing and shelling.

"GATES OF HELL"

"You opened the gates of hell on yourselves," Hamas's armed wing, the al-Qassam brigades, said on Twitter. "Oh Zionists, you have to drag yourselves out of hell, go back home now, go back to Germany, Poland, Russia, America and anywhere else."
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 10:14:17 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 21, 2012, 08:24:10 PM
Quote from: Itchy on November 21, 2012, 08:02:50 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2012, 06:37:40 PM
Itchy, what do you call people who fire big rockets and bombs into multi story buildings occupied by hundreds of civilians - at least 70% of them women and children?
Do you consider them to be fair game ?
RTE news gave the bus attack with 20 wounded first mention and added as an afterthought that 11 ppeople were killed in Gaza.
So 20 wounded Israelis are more newsworthy than 11 dead Palestinians. :-\
Same oul hierarchy of victims sh1te from the Western media. :(

Well Rossfan, I call people who fire missiles into buildings of civilians cowardly murderers. Just because I think Hamas joy at blowing up a bus is sick doesn't automatically mean I'm a supporter of Israel. Just means there are plenty of murdering cowards on both sides. It is however interesting to read the relatively lukewarm criticism of Hamas by seafood when he copies and pastes endless articles when Israel is the aggressor. For what its worth I do believe Israel is the biggest aggressor but its not the only one.
Is that you BalldeBeaver?

Israel is the aggressor BTW. If the Brits kept Fermanagh under lockdown and allowed only 2000 calories in per head for over 6 years and trashed the county's water system and had 10% of kids badly malnourished as official policy I would consider the Brits to be out of order.

You're either with me or against me right seafood? perhaps if you read my post youd see i did indicate israel is aggressor. However, you do the Palestinian plight no favours with your complete inability to be genuinely critical of Hamas and the fundamentalist religious shite they spout.
Do you think abortion should be legalised in Ireland?

You're doing a great job of showing just how unable you are to be balanced by refusing to engage. Here's a quote for you from Hamas ...

IT would be fantastic if Hamas were like Fine Gael and they wore suits and went to mass on Sundays.  But they come from Gaza. And you know if you look at Irish history Hamas aren't that different in outlook to the people who wrote the constitution in 1937. Fundamentalism can happen anywhere. You have to understand what Israel has done to Gaza in terms of de-development and how this  turned many people to religion.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2538308?uid=3737760&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101403997591

But do any of your quotes above legalise what Israel does to Gaza? Of course not.
And you never answered my abortion question either.

I don't think he was justifying it and he appears to be condemning it. Are you able to condemn some of the Hamas actions rather than justify them?
Hamas have murdered many less innocents than the IDF but there are still victims on the Israeli side. Just as the Israeli aggression pushes the people of Gaza toward their hardliners so the Hamas response is pushing moderate Israelis toward their hard-liners.

The Gazans won the PR battle thanks to the good work of people like GHD and the courage of those on the ground and it is that groundswell which stopped this latest bloodbath, not their mostly ineffectual rocket attacks.

seafoid

By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn't seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven't seen this picture. They wouldn't want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven't devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

LeoMc

Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 01:05:20 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn't seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven't seen this picture. They wouldn't want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven't devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.

seafoid

Quote from: LeoMc on November 22, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 01:05:20 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn't seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven't seen this picture. They wouldn't want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven't devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.

Who is supposed to condemn Hamas? The Arabs ? 

The whole terrorism/ moral army framing of the conflict is bullshit. As is the anti Zionist= antisemite argument.
Palestinians have their homes demolished because they aren't Jewish. The Israeli approach to the conflict
is utterly amoral. And it makes Jewish ethics more or less redundant.

What difference would it make anyway if Hamas was condemned? Would it change Israel?
Would Israel stop building settlements ?


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/27/erekat-finally-hits-mark#

"(Israeli Foreign Mimnister) Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza."

When Mr Erekat asked Ms Livni: "Short of your jet fighters in my sky and your army on my territory, can I choose where I secure external defence?". She replied: "No. In order to create your state you have to agree in advance with Israel – you have to choose not to have the right of choice afterwards. These are the basic pillars."

"Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we'll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state". She conceded that it had been "the policy of the government for a really long time".

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Harold Disgracey

Might have to revise my opinion of him.

Real Madrid iconic forward Cristiano Ronaldo has donated €1.5 million to Palestinian children in Gaza, the Arabic version of the club's Classico network reports. The star forward gave his Golden Boot which he earned in 2011 to the Real Madrid foundation. The Spanish giants in their turn sold it at auction and will now donate the funds to schools in Gaza According to various reports, the Real Madrid Foundation has helped to build 167 schools in 66 countries. It's not the first time Ronaldo has given to Gaza.
Last year he sold most of his sports shoes at a Real Madrid Foundation auction which was also dedicated to raising funds for schools in Gaza.

Itchy

Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 01:56:30 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on November 22, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 22, 2012, 01:05:20 PM
By all means condemn Hamas- they kill people too, they aren't always particularly tolerant - but they haven't ruined the lives of 5 million Jews the way the Israeli government has in the case of the palestinians.
Most Israelis don't want to know what they have done to Gaza. They don't want to accept the reality of Israeli state violence.

http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/west-of-eden/gaza-requiem-six-remarks-on-image-perceptions-and-four-dead-palestinian-children.premium-1.479828

But there is a Reuters picture that I wish I hadn't seen. I looked at it, almost by accident, and it has been seared into my memory ever since. It shows 6 year old Jamal Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 4 year old Yousef Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, 7 year old Sarah Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, and one year old Ibrahim Mohammed Jamal al-Dalu, all lying together, faces bruised, eyes closed, breaths extinguished, on a steel gurney in a Gaza morgue.
They were killed in an air force bombing raid in what Israel says - and I am absolutely convinced - was a regrettable human error.
But most Israelis haven't seen this picture. They wouldn't want to, even if they could. They may have heard of, but they certainly haven't devoted too much attention to, the killing of the 8 members of the al-Dalu family. Many of them were harshly critical of Haaretz for having chosen to devote a main headline to their demise.

The ordinary Israeli people are the ones who need to see the pictures. While they have their own dead they will not ask questions and while Hamas fire rockets the Generals in Tel Aviv can paint the picture of the big bad ogre who needs to be exterminated.

While Hamas terrorism goes un-condemned the Generals know their high tech terrorism cannot be fully condemned and that those who condone one act of terrorism while condemning another can be painted as Anti-semites.

Who is supposed to condemn Hamas? The Arabs ? 

The whole terrorism/ moral army framing of the conflict is bullshit. As is the anti Zionist= antisemite argument.
Palestinians have their homes demolished because they aren't Jewish. The Israeli approach to the conflict
is utterly amoral. And it makes Jewish ethics more or less redundant.

What difference would it make anyway if Hamas was condemned? Would it change Israel?
Would Israel stop building settlements ?


http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/27/erekat-finally-hits-mark#

"(Israeli Foreign Mimnister) Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza."

When Mr Erekat asked Ms Livni: "Short of your jet fighters in my sky and your army on my territory, can I choose where I secure external defence?". She replied: "No. In order to create your state you have to agree in advance with Israel – you have to choose not to have the right of choice afterwards. These are the basic pillars."

"Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we'll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state". She conceded that it had been "the policy of the government for a really long time".

Anyone with respect for rules of war and who detests the targeting of civilians should condemn Hamas and at the same time Israel. That does not take from the fact that Israel is a murderous rogue state which treats the people of Gaza like dogs in a ghetto. However, if you are unable to be balanced and critical of both sides when their is cause to be then your opinion is worthless and counter productive.