Paul Kimmage article about Athenry club dispute.

[Therealdonald]

Most sensible thread on the board at the moment, with no name-calling etc. My only problem is what are we protecting our kids from? I've young lads myself that aren't old enough yet to play though they soon will be and I'm dreading it because I see the u8 games in my own club and they are crazy. I just think this sets a dangerous precedent, all clubs nowadays (well almost all) have a notice or set of guidelines about respecting the referee, then come a Sunday in a league game its forgot about. Are these referee abusers (and I'm one) going to brought to justice as well? Maybe my point isn't being brought across well, but I think we've a few bigger issues than use of language. Is the parent not naive to think they won't hear this language anyway?

[AZOffaly]

I don't think the language is a big deal, per se. I have no idea about the detail in Athenry, but I know I wouldn't be too worked up about an odd curse here or there. But you should never, ever curse or swear at a child. That's not right.

As for referee abusers, that's also wrong, especially at under age, but it's the coaches responsibility, as I said earlier, to rise above that. Again, in the heat of a game you can obviously find yourself saying things like 'ah ref, what's that for?', or whatever, but that's just being a human. What you can't do is f**k and blind at him, or call him a cheat, or blame him for losing of the game. This is where you become more than a technical coach, and turn into a role model.  I will never blame a ref for us losing, in front of the kids at least , and I won't let the kids blame him either.

[Jinxy]

I think there should be a designated official from each club at juvenile games, whose sole official role is to police the behaviour of the adults.
If someone from Club A is roaring at the young referee, then the designated official from Club A should have a word with them.
If they tell the official from their own club to GFH, their child is suspended for 2 weeks.
People are more amenable to one of their own telling them to calm down.

[Dinny Breen]

I coach both football and rugby, abuse from the sideline towards the referee and the opposition is horrendous in football, my own club has to ensure parents aren't pitch side. Rugby parents (fairly often the same parents) are nowhere near as bad but it's a growing concern so much that the IRFU have introduced silent sidelines, coaches are allowed only give instructions once per half and parents are pretty much only allowed applaud and that's it. Kids find it strange at first but the feedback is very positive from the kids.

The GAA need to change this culture.

[AQMP]

There are GAA guidelines for Child protection:

http://www.gaa.ie/the-gaa/child-welfare-and-protection/

If a club, member or GAAboard contributor doesn't agree with them they should work to get them changed.  However, no of these parties can decide that any particular guideline is not important ("A few fcuks never hurt anyone", "my club does X").  Once they get away with that then all guidelines are up for arbitrary dismissal by an individual or club.

These are are hard-learnt issues in Ireland.  That is why this is a hugely serious issue.

/Jim.

Spot on Jim.  Good post.  The guidelines and rules on child welfare are there for a reason and apply to every county, club and member of the Assoc.

Whatever the detail here, based on Kimmage's article, St Mary's Athenry don't appear to have covered themselves in glory.

[brokencrossbar1]

I was being a bit facetious with my first comment as I know the pitfalls in all of this being both an u12 coach and also a parent and uncle of two of the players. It is all well and good to bring in the ideas of the 'silent sideline' as Dinny outlined but the thing is that the GAA is much more entrenched in the psyche of the average joe Irish man and woman then rugby is. It is also very much more 'tribal' in its outlook with less cross pollination between clubs then you might have in soccer and rugby so the inter generational aspect of the set up is more imbedded. As a result certain behaviour and patterns are let go due to 'sure he's not a bad one at the back of it all, look what he and his family have done down through the years '. Consequently in some clubs and locations there is a greater tolerance of behaviours whether we like it or not and there really isn't a one cap fits all. A simple example. Last year a young lad was coming into training and got out of the mothers car. She wound down the window and said 'he's a bit sore from school training' so I said that's grand he can take it easy tonight. Her words to me were 'go away and shite....run the shite out of him!'.  I laughed but she was serious as she said he needs to get himself up to the level to be ready for the next step up. I didn't run the shite out of him but her mindset would be similar to the mindset of many parents I know,  maybe not as clolorful in the language terms.

The point I am making I suppose is that in certain places and different things are more acceptable. It could well be that for years the behaviour of the Athenry was was acceptable and had been gaining good results hence he was given leeway. It doesn't make it right in everyone's eyes and certainly the club didn't deal with it right but to be honest Kimmage has made a bigger story out of something that could have been so much smaller in my eyes. It was advertised all week on Today FM as the story all parents need to know about a GAA club as if it's the template for all clubs and that parents need to be wary!  No harm but he's a pure bollix.

[seafoid]

It looks like a bitter dispute because one of the parents wanted to form a breakaway club, according to my sources.
So it went far beyond effin' and blindin'.

[Jinxy]

Has there been no local media coverage of this?

[seafoid]

Has there been no local media coverage of this?

It's only Tuesday.  Maybe later in the week.

[ApresMatch]

Instead of the headline 'The article every parent should read'
it should have read 'The article every juvenile official should read',
but that wouldn't fit Kimmage's agenda.

[moysider]

It looks like a bitter dispute because one of the parents wanted to form a breakaway club, according to my sources.
So it went far beyond effin' and blindin'.

I would imagine so. Effin' and blindin' not something that is acceptable either.
This story struck me like there were layers there. Kimmage comes out of this as the biggest tool of the whole story though.
A simplistic way to look at it is that there are two different types of clubs at underage. Those that have barely enough numbers to field a team and those with large numbers that struggle to keep kids and their parents sweet because of who gets to play most or at all.

[BenDover]

I coach both football and rugby, abuse from the sideline towards the referee and the opposition is horrendous in football, my own club has to ensure parents aren't pitch side. Rugby parents (fairly often the same parents) are nowhere near as bad but it's a growing concern so much that the IRFU have introduced silent sidelines, coaches are allowed only give instructions once per half and parents are pretty much only allowed applaud and that's it. Kids find it strange at first but the feedback is very positive from the kids.

The GAA need to change this culture.

Dinny - silent sidelines, how do you find this works? I'm trying to implement this with our coaches u6-u10 atm and it's actually harder than it sounds. Focusing more on our own coaches to get them comfortable with it rather than other teams that come to our place to play. Without some type of pregame notice, lollipops to distract the parents during gameplay or silent sideline enforcers at every underage game it'd be a nightmare to police.

[Jinxy]

You have to get parents actively involved also I think.
Get a few of them to volunteer so you have at least two for every game, give them high viz vests (no one argues with a high viz vest) and let them police the adults.

[seafoid]

What is most striking about this imo was the threat to start a new club. Athenry is an amalgamation of at least 3 clubs so there is a history of dysfunction and mé féining  in the parish. This mess threatened to reopen the wound.

On the surface it was about parents but it went a lot deeper.
Typical Galway hurling as well I think. Far too much emotion.

And presumably no coincidence that the senior team is poor and there was no club player on the Galway team that won last year's all Ireland.

[Itchy]

What is most striking about this imo was the threat to start a new club. Athenry is an amalgamation of at least 3 clubs so there is a history of dysfunction and mé féining  in the parish. This mess threatened to reopen the wound.

On the surface it was about parents but it went a lot deeper.
Typical Galway hurling as well I think. Far too much emotion.

And presumably no coincidence that the senior team is poor and there was no club player on the Galway team that won last year's all Ireland.

Certainly puts a different light on it. Why did the author not mention this?? I've seen a couple of amalgamations down the years that turned into this back biting like this.