The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Dinny Breen]

CP,

You don't pick a rugby squad based on 2 per position as many positions are inter-changable. You'll need to name 3 scrum-halfs and 3 Hookers and probably 5 props.

Shane Horgan won't be going and I can't see Denis Hickie coming out of retirement.

My own squad if selected in the morning would be

Props

Ross, Court, Healy, Fitzpatrick and Buckley

Hookers

Best, Cronin, Varley

2nd Rows

O'Connell, Cullen, Toner, Tuohy

Back-Rows

Heaslip, O'Brien, Leamy, Ferris, Jennings

Scrum-Halfs

Stringer, Reddan, Boss

Out-Halfs

O'Gara. Sexton

Centres

Wallace, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, McFadden

Back 3

G Murphy, Bowe, Earls, j Murphy.


Fitzgearld/Kearney/Flannery/O'Callaghan/O'Leary really need to be playing and showing some form to be considered.

[tyroneboi]

I would safely say Kidney has 90% of his squad already picked at this stage and as shown in the Autumn internationals form in the domestic leagues etc will count for very little. Having said that I would still be very confident of a decent showing at the World Cup. Quarter final is the minimum expectation but with South Africa the likely quarter final game then you just never know. I have a sneaky feeling about the upcoming six nations that another grand slam is on the way. England and France at home you would always be confident despite a ropey enough record against the French. The 3 away games are very winnable. In fact for once I am going to put my money where my mouth is and put a few of my hard earned pounds on Ireland @ 13/2 for the grand slam!! New year and i am full of optimism!!!!!!

[erne bhoy]

does anyone know much about the young no. 9 for ulster paul/luke marshall? only saw him there recently in the two televised magners league games over the holidays and although you can't read much into a very brief cameo against leinster and a game against a somewhat limited munster outfit i thought he looked very lively, one for the future perhaps?

[Dinny Breen]

Paul Marshall is highly rated by Ulster supporters, he's a bit of a slow burner in that he's now I think 25 but I like him howvever his progress has been stunted a little by the signing of Pienaar. In my opinion Ulster's bets half-back pairing is Marshall at 9 and Pienaar at 10. But if he continues thsl progess he could be contesting for a 6 nations spot next year.

[johnneycool]

I was listening to five live one night and they'd a rugby talk in with Matt Dawson hosting along with Brian Moore and Keith Wood just after the first spate of autumn internationals. After the England love in, I think they'd just beaten Australia they came round to talking about Ireland and in particular the pack and lack of real options at prop.

Wood reckons a lot of the current Irish props aren't getting much game time due to foreign imports in the provinces and rattled off the starting props for the provinces and not too many were Irish. I think he said big Buckley wasn't a starter for Munster, don't know myself but it seems strange than the IRFU who ultimately pick up the tap for the provinces wages don't put some sort of restriction on new signings or is the onus for the provinces to win that Irish talent is left by the wayside or have to take a chance in the English leagues to get games??

[fingerbob]

Paul Marshall is highly rated by Ulster supporters, he's a bit of a slow burner in that he's now I think 25 but I like him howvever his progress has been stunted a little by the signing of Pienaar. In my opinion Ulster's bets half-back pairing is Marshall at 9 and Pienaar at 10. But if he continues thsl progess he could be contesting for a 6 nations spot next year.

I think he was referring to Luke Marshall, 19 year old who I think was fly half against munster the other night.

[Capt Pat]

Thankfully the world cup isn't in the morning and I expect the cream to rise to the top by October.  Hickey should have been Fitzgerald with Wallace  at inside centre. I would take tomas o leary on his own ahead of the other 3 scrum halves. Donacha ryan plays second row and blind side,making him a good squad player. Cronin will go as hooker number 3. I am unsure about scrumhalf number 3 and prop number 5. Cut Horgan, Jennings and Trimble to make room.

[muppet]

CP,

You don't pick a rugby squad based on 2 per position as many positions are inter-changable. You'll need to name 3 scrum-halfs and 3 Hookers and probably 5 props.

Shane Horgan won't be going and I can't see Denis Hickie coming out of retirement.

My own squad if selected in the morning would be

Props

Ross, Court, Healy, Fitzpatrick and Buckley

Hookers

Best, Cronin, Varley

2nd Rows

O'Connell, Cullen, Toner, Tuohy

Back-Rows

Heaslip, O'Brien, Leamy, Ferris, Jennings

Scrum-Halfs

Stringer, Reddan, Boss

Out-Halfs

O'Gara. Sexton

Centres

Wallace, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, McFadden

Back 3

G Murphy, Bowe, Earls, j Murphy.


Fitzgearld/Kearney/Flannery/O'Callaghan/O'Leary really need to be playing and showing some form to be considered.

Dinny you have got to be having a laugh:

No Horan at all, no Flannery, no O'Callaghan (definitely a wind-up I think Cullen has an infinite number of stunning sisters or something), Wallace (fair enough a World Cup too far but no obvious replacement), O'Leary will travel even if Stringer is the man we need there.

As for your back choices, all I'll say is, I'm a Gaa man, and 'no comprende'. Bowe and Earls: Yes. The Murphys? Not a hope.

[Dinny Breen]

Muppet did you miss this line

"My own squad if selected in the morning would be"


John E Murphy has been Munsters most consistent back this season and can play in any of the outside backs position.
Jerry Flannery is injured again and has no form.
Donnacha O'Callaghan in my opinion has had his poorest season in Munster shirt and his abdication of responsibilty in the autumn internationals galled me. Leo Cullen since returning from injury has been excellent for Leinster and Touhy is a very promising hard-nosed talent.
Marcus Horan will not/should not go to the World Cup.
O'Leary needs to start showing form most right minded Munster fans want Stringer starting for their province I don't see why it should be different for our country.
Geodan Murphy imho is the only Irish Full back capable of exploiting the new law interprations certainly miles ahead of  Rob 'Will I just kick it up in the air or just smash into the 1st tackler' Kearney.

All open to changes but if the World Cup was tomorrow that is the squad I'd bring...

[Celt_Man]

Muppet did you miss this line

"My own squad if selected in the morning would be"


John E Murphy has been Munsters most consistent back this season and can play in any of the outside backs position.Jerry Flannery is injured again and has no form.
Donnacha O'Callaghan in my opinion has had his poorest season in Munster shirt and his abdication of responsibilty in the autumn internationals galled me. Leo Cullen since returning from injury has been excellent for Leinster and Touhy is a very promising hard-nosed talent.
Marcus Horan will not/should not go to the World Cup.
O'Leary needs to start showing form most right minded Munster fans want Stringer starting for their province I don't see why it should be different for our country.
Geodan Murphy imho is the only Irish Full back capable of exploiting the new law interprations certainly miles ahead of  Rob 'Will I just kick it up in the air or just smash into the 1st tackler' Kearney.

All open to changes but if the World Cup was tomorrow that is the squad I'd bring...

Agree of Murphy - he was in serious form even at the early stages of the Magners' League before the Autumn Internationals - thought himself and Fionn Carr (the other on-form Irish at that point in time) were very unlucky not to have been called into the Irish squad.  You would feel that the pair would have greatly benefitted from the experience of training in the Irish Camp

Murphy has kept up his form since then while I'm not sure Carr has - although I haven't seen as much as Connacht as Munster

[Celt_Man]

Cian Healy staying in Ireland for another couple of years....  Hopefully they can get Heaslip and Sexton to do the same soon

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/6434.php

Healy extends deal with Leinster and Ireland...

The IRFU is pleased to announce the signing of another international contract with Cian Healy signing a new deal that will see him continue to play in Ireland with Leinster for another two seasons up to 2013...

The IRFU are currently in the process of contracting Ireland based players and Healy's new contract comes on the back of those recently awarded to Donncha O'Callaghan and Ronan O'Gara with Munster.
Healy has represented Ireland at Schools, under 19, under 20, A and full international level and at only 23 has already won 13 caps for Ireland. He made his Leinster debut in the Magners League in 2007 and has appeared for his hometown province on 68 occasions.

Cian Healy said, "I am delighted to have my new contract signed as it means I can continue to concentrate on playing for my home province and improving my game further. It has been a good couple of weeks for us and so I just want to focus on playing well for Leinster to keep me firmly in the plans of Declan and the national team."

Leinster Coach Joe Schmidt said, "Cian is a strong and dynamic ball-carrying loosehead and it was great to see his efforts rewarded with two tries in the recent Heineken Cup win over ASM Clermont Auvergne. Cian has been impressive progressing through the Leinster Academy, into the Leinster Senior team and onto the Ireland International side. At just 23, there is obviously still plenty of scope for further development which promises real benefit for both Leinster and Irish rugby."

IRFU Chief Executive Philip Browne said, "We began the process of contracting players as early as the summer and while it is something that can take time to complete, this is nothing new and we are progressing through the majority of those contracts that are coming to an end this season or early next season. With a fixture list of potentially over 40 matches per season and with even more games in overseas leagues where we would have no influence on the game time for Irish players, it is vital that we continue to work to retain players to play within Ireland in the provinces. It's only in this way that we can continue to have a positive influence on their development and in particular to ensure that our international players are best equipped to contribute to the further success of Irish rugby at international level and also at provincial level."

Ireland Coach Declan Kidney said, "For a young player like Cian who has progressed really well over the last 18 months this is good news as it allows him to continue to develop as a player in Ireland. He has approached every challenge with the same hard working attitude and if he continues to do this he can become an even better player."

[Donnellys Hollow]

Still a long way out to be picking a World Cup squad but I'm sure Kidney has a fairly good idea of at least 25 names before facing into the 6N. The last remaining seats on the plane will go to who is in form and who is injury free come mid August.

Starting XV in bold:

Props - Buckley, Court, Healy, Horan, Ross

Probably too late at this stage for Hagan or Timmy Ryan to stake a claim. Hopefully Ross will get a run during the 6N. He's not as good as Buckley around the field but he's far superior in the tight. Buckley should have been allowed go to Bath a few years ago where he'd have got regular games instead of stagnating behind Hayes at Munster.

Hookers - Best, Cronin, Flannery

This selection will be very injury dependent. Hopefully Flannery will be fit because the lineout struggles without him. Best is solid around the field and is probably the best scrummager of the three but his darts are poor. Cronin would be a good option for the bench because he is a great ball carrier but his throwing is also erratic. Varley will go as third choice if Flannery misses out.

Second Row - Cullen, O'Callaghan, O'Connell, Toner

O'Callaghan always seems to struggle without O'Connell alongside him so it's probably unfair to judge him on the last six months. Cullen's form has been good though and he deserves the nod at this stage. O'Callaghan looks like the kind of player that could do with a kick up the hole every so often and he may pick it up again if he's dropped for the 6N. He's probably a better player coming off the bench anyway. Toner should edge out O'Driscoll, Tuohy and Donncha Ryan.

Back Row - Ferris, Heaslip, Leamy, O'Brien, Wallace

Our strongest area. Ferris and Heaslip are certs to start and O'Brien is the form man. He'll hopefully start in the 6N. Leamy will travel if injury free. While I accept the argument that Jennings is a natural 7 I'd still expect Wallace to get the nod ahead of him mainly due to his experience. Kidney and Jennings have had their differences in the past and he still has a tendency to concede silly penalties.

Scrum Half - O'Leary, Reddan, Stringer

From our strongest area to probably our weakest. All of the options have glaring deficiencies in their games. O'Leary is the most physical and will keep opposing back rows honest but he's very slow and ponderous at getting the ball away from the ruck and he kicks a crazy amount of ball away. We know Stringer won't make any sniping breaks but he is the best passer of the ball. Reddan is more of a compromise between the two but he hasn't performed well for Ireland for a long time.

Out Half - O'Gara, Sexton

Simple choice really. Very doubtful anyone else (Humphreys/Keatley) will travel with Paddy Wallace obviously preferred as third choice 10.

Centres - Darcy, McFadden, O'Driscoll, Wallace

O'Driscoll is a cert but who will partner him is up for debate. Darcy has been mediocre for a number of years and could be vulnerable. McFadden is in great form and he covers a number of positions as well as being a decent goal kicker. Moving O'Driscoll to 12 and trying someone like Earls outside him might also be worth a look. Wallace will definitely travel as cover at 10.

Back 3 - Bowe, Earls, Fitzgerald, Kearney

I wouldn't agree with this decision but I don't think Geordan Murphy will travel especially if we bring five props. Fitzgerald will go if injury free because he also covers the centre and full-back. Kearney needs a good kick up the hole because his form before his injury was abysmal. I'd have Murphy ahead of him for the 15 shirt but I don't think Kidney sees it that way.

It all hinges on the Australia match which I think is the second match in the pool. Lose that one badly and the Italy match could suddenly become very tricky. I do think we'll get out of the group but it looks like a respectable defeat to South Africa in the quarters is the best we can expect. If we could somehow manage to sneak past the Wallabies in Auckland we would most likely have Wales in the quarters which would be very winnable especially looking at their pool games which will probably be a lot more attritional than ours. Unlikely though.

[screenexile]

Having read that about Cian Healey I can't help but think that the central contract maybe hinders a lot of our players. As mentioned previously Buckley could have done some amount of improving if he had gone to England. Likewise I think that Cian Healy could learn a lot had he been shipped to Wales, France or England. I think that in areas where we are weak it would not do any harm to ship lads off for a while to get them some experience.

In Tommy Bowe's case he was already a superb winger and if anything his stint at the Ospreys has turned him into one of the best in the world. Yes I agree with having central contracts to a point but for positions where we are weak such as Scrum Half, Front row I don't see the harm in letting a few lads head off to try and improve themselves!

[Hound]

Thankfully the world cup isn't in the morning and I expect the cream to rise to the top by October.  Hickey should have been Fitzgerald with Wallace  at inside centre. I would take tomas o leary on his own ahead of the other 3 scrum halves. Donacha ryan plays second row and blind side,making him a good squad player. Cronin will go as hooker number 3. I am unsure about scrumhalf number 3 and prop number 5. Cut Horgan, Jennings and Trimble to make room.

Donncha Ryan is nowhere near good enough to play blind side at international level - so no point making the squad player comment. He either makes it as a second row, or he doesnt make it. I think he has huge potential, but he'll need to play alongside O'Connell to develop. Hopefully that will happen with Munster sooner rather than later as O'Callaghan is finally being found out.

[lynchbhoy]

My own squad if selected in the morning would be
Props
Ross, Court, Healy, Fitzpatrick and Buckley
Hookers
Best, Cronin, Varley
2nd Rows
o'Connell, Cullen, Toner, Tuohy
Back-Rows
Heaslip, O'Brien, Leamy, Ferris, Jennings
Scrum-Halfs
Stringer, Reddan, Boss
Out-Halfs
O'Gara. Sexton
Centres
Wallace, O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, McFadden
Back 3
G Murphy, Bowe, Earls, j Murphy.

Fitzgearld/Kearney/Flannery/O'Callaghan/O'Leary really need to be playing and showing some form to be considered.

I'd agree with almost all of that but would rather have Fitzgerald or even Trimble in there at the expense of d'arcy
and while i'm a big fan, I am not sure i'd pick Toner ahead of o'callaghan's experience and understanding with oconnell.