The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Bord na Mona man]

A 20 point defeat for Ireland but it wasn't a bad effort. New Zealand did play some exceptional stuff at times. They powered over the advantage line so often and at times it needed 2 Irish players to stop each black shirt. They also have a remarkable ability to offload in the tackle which meant the pressure was unrelenting.

Obviously New Zealand look to be ahead of the rest. Australia and South Africa are certainly not overly impressive. If they fail at the World Cup, they might look back to this game as when they peaked.

Ireland must get credit for having a real cut at the game. They came out to play and moved the ball well. Some of the moves were decent enough. If Keith Earls had just been a couple of inches further in from the line and scored that late try, the tally would have stood at 3 tries each and maybe New Zealand wouldn't got their last try at the death.

Unfortunately Ireland lost the game in the few minutes either side of half time when they conceded 21 points. Also for a couple of these tries, Irish players mistakenly moved in to tackle someone else's man. But this is what being under constant pressure does to teams.

Decent showings by most of the team, though Wallace, Kearney and Fitzgerald didn't get going. From what I saw of Stringer and Sexton together, they are the best combo to get the backs moving. If Sean Cronin shaves his head and improves his throwing he could be the next Keith Wood. Court did all right at tight head and really John Hayes should be down to 4th choice now.

[INDIANA]

Another heroic epic of failure I suppose. Never ceases to amaze me that a GAA team will be slated here but highly piad full time professionals making the most basic mistakes will be given a free pass here.

Spade a spade time.

- We have no scrum. The fact is we cant survive against good scrums. Smals is supposed to be this forwards guru yet he cant teach our lads to survic ein the scrum? What a waste fo money

- DOC is under serious pressure now from Toner. I thought Ferris played great. An absolute wrecking ball. His form for Ireland has been poor enough recently but that was great. Heaslip played well. His first ever good game against top 2 oppoistion. However the NZ backrow still beat us off the park. Read is so good its not funny. I think he's better then Parisse. We're in real trouble at 7 unless Wallace rediscovers himself. Jury out on O Brien. Looks a 6 to me. Hard to think of another up and coming number 7

- Sexton played well as did Reddan and Stringer did great when he came on. No issues there. Reddna needed that after the last days shambles.

- Centres played very well. Best games for a long, long time.

- Back 3 offered little bar Bowe. Kearney just isnt the counterattacker we need there and unless Kidney embraces this we'll struggle. Fitz is totally off the boil as well and shouldnt be starting at present.

Overall it was a decent effort. But we lost by 20 points. Shouldnt lose sight of that. We're still miles off where we should be.

[Capt Pat]

That is right Indianan, an average, average performance from Ireland which was an improvement on the mediocre displays of the last 2 weeks. The All Blacks of yesterday are very good but just about beatable if we had played our best game and Dan Carter had missed a couple of kicks.

Even Brendan O'Connor on his show was buying into it being a good performance and how well the team had played and how good it made everyone feel??? What is he on.

[muppet]

Wallace's form was disappointing. I was looking forward to the clash between him and McCaw but he made some basic mistakes with the ball in hand and never really got into it. I was very surprised to see Tom Court being taken off, it looked to me like Healy was the man under pressure but I admit I know feck all about scrums.

Kearney seemed to be a turnover waiting to happen and although I criticise Mick O'Driscoll he did ok but he is no nearer being a starter. DOC did fine I thought despite the almost predictable criticism but Toner could move ahead of him.

I was delighted with Ferris and Heaslip taking the game to the All Blacks. At least it gave us something to cheer about in a depressing week for Ireland.

[Capt Pat]

I said it before the game but Keith Earls is Ireland best playmaking running back at the minute and should start for Ireland. O'Driscoll while still easily worth his place on the team doesn't perform that role as well as he used to. I would drop Darcy and move O'Driscoll to inside centre. I would make that move because I think outside centre is the best place to put your best attacking creative back to maximise their potential. Also moving O'Driscoll inside closer to the action would also be of benefit to his talents.

[Main Street]

I enjoyed the game on the box. Those All Blacks have a hyper level of aggressive physicality mixed with top rugby skill in their game, along with Dan Carter.
Good kicking from Sexton, pity he choked under mild pressure on that last conversion attempt.

[INDIANA]

I enjoyed the game on the box. Those All Blacks have a hyper level of aggressive physicality mixed with top rugby skill in their game, along with Dan Carter.
Good kicking from Sexton, pity he choked under mild pressure on that last conversion attempt.

choked

it was hardly a pressure kick for christs sake. the match was already over

[Dinny Breen]

Very good Minder, you caught one fish...

Earls is not a creative player in the sense of a play-maker, he is actually quite limited in that department but he does create space with direct running and his ability to get over the gain-line. I'd like to see a BOD/Earls axis, interchangeable during the game.

As for the game, restarts restarts restarts, massively important set-piece that we made a balls off and the one we did win after the try Sexton should have pinged it back instead we ran it, got turned over and that lead to try before half-time, poor rugby intelligence from Sexton...

The performance was better but overall questions marks remain over Kidney and his team although Les Kiss can be proud of the defensive effort.  If we want to progress as a team I think the following need to moved on - Wallace (very poor yesterday, I watched him closely and his work-rate has fallen off), MOD (much improved but just not international class), Reddan (again just not international class), D'Arcy (very good in his prime but center play has moved on) and John Hayes (great servant but Boxer out of Animal Farm keeps coming to mind). Kearney and Fitzgerald are young enough and I like what's happening under Schmidt so they will improve and find some form again, not sure if Kidney can bring us forward as a coach but he deserves time but Gaffney needs to be let go (his whole philosophy is about finding weakness in opposition defence and trying to exploit it, this leads to paralysis of analysis). I wouldn't be surprised if the game plan which was more attack orientated was player driven.

Anyhow I think if we take short-term pain in the 6 nations - continue to develop O'Brien, Ruddock, Toner, Earls, Healy, Cronin, Sexton and Court. If we do this we'll develop strength in dept and create competition. We won't win the World Cup but we'll be very competitive and going forward we'll be in positive position heading into the 6 nations for the following three years..

Alas we need a scrum-half from somewhere anywhere....

Stephen Ferris was a beast yesterday, our best player by a mile....

Finally New Zealand, not the biggest but very very fit probably the fittest professional team in any support I have ever seen. Think their peaking too early though..

[tyroneboi]

We definitely need to find a scrum half but unfortunately at the World Cup its going to be one from Reddan, O'Leary or Strings (who will be pushing the arse of 34 by then). It just shows what a difference a good scrum half can make to a team. Look at Ben Youngs at England he is a fantastic 9 and South Africa without Du Preez are a totally different team.

[INDIANA]

Very good Minder, you caught one fish...

Earls is not a creative player in the sense of a play-maker, he is actually quite limited in that department but he does create space with direct running and his ability to get over the gain-line. I'd like to see a BOD/Earls axis, interchangeable during the game.

As for the game, restarts restarts restarts, massively important set-piece that we made a balls off and the one we did win after the try Sexton should have pinged it back instead we ran it, got turned over and that lead to try before half-time, poor rugby intelligence from Sexton...

The performance was better but overall questions marks remain over Kidney and his team although Les Kiss can be proud of the defensive effort.  If we want to progress as a team I think the following need to moved on - Wallace (very poor yesterday, I watched him closely and his work-rate has fallen off), MOD (much improved but just not international class), Reddan (again just not international class), D'Arcy (very good in his prime but center play has moved on) and John Hayes (great servant but Boxer out of Animal Farm keeps coming to mind). Kearney and Fitzgerald are young enough and I like what's happening under Schmidt so they will improve and find some form again, not sure if Kidney can bring us forward as a coach but he deserves time but Gaffney needs to be let go (his whole philosophy is about finding weakness in opposition defence and trying to exploit it, this leads to paralysis of analysis). I wouldn't be surprised if the game plan which was more attack orientated was player driven.

Anyhow I think if we take short-term pain in the 6 nations - continue to develop O'Brien, Ruddock, Toner, Earls, Healy, Cronin, Sexton and Court. If we do this we'll develop strength in dept and create competition. We won't win the World Cup but we'll be very competitive and going forward we'll be in positive position heading into the 6 nations for the following three years..

Alas we need a scrum-half from somewhere anywhere....

Stephen Ferris was a beast yesterday, our best player by a mile....

Finally New Zealand, not the biggest but very very fit probably the fittest professional team in any support I have ever seen. Think their peaking too early though..

how you can question others and convieniently ignore the back 3 is beyond me.
the back 3 is our single biggest problem in my view.
the personnel has to change
how can ayone be competitive with no scrum and no counter attacking thyreat?
Fitzgerlad is out for 6 weeks. Best is out for 6 weeks and kearney has cartilage damage and is likley to face an op.

[tyroneboi]

Dont forget though that Fitzgerald is only back from a career threatening knee injury so I think come the 6 nations he should be coming back into the form we know he is capable of. Bowe on the other wing is in the top 5 wings in the world no question about that. I do agree though that full back is a bit of a problem but hoping Kearney is going through a period of bad form and he will come out of it sooner rather than later.

Who do you think should be in the back 3?

[INDIANA]

Dont forget though that Fitzgerald is only back from a career threatening knee injury so I think come the 6 nations he should be coming back into the form we know he is capable of. Bowe on the other wing is in the top 5 wings in the world no question about that. I do agree though that full back is a bit of a problem but hoping Kearney is going through a period of bad form and he will come out of it sooner rather than later.

Who do you think should be in the back 3?

Kearney offers no counter attacking threat. So he cant play 15. Only can be considered as a winger. Might actually make a good winger- but hes not a 15. Fitz is out for 6 weeks with medial ligament damage and kearney is out too so it has to change now.

15- fitzgerald- 14 bowe and 11 earls. or 15-muphy 14 bowe and 11 earls.
Id consider kearney for earls slot but not for 15

[Dinny Breen]

I said Fitz and Kearney are young and can improve and I think they will under Schmidt but you are dead right on the counter attack threat, non-existent but counter attack is not just about the back three, it's about the whole team working hard to get into support positions and form a second line of attack. Kidney's teams have never had the threat even though he had Christian Cullen at his disposal...

The scrum can improved but Healy and Court need regular games at this level. The set-piece can always be improved it's the unstructured part of our game that needs the work, apart from BOD, O'Gara and Bowe our heads up rugby is just not good enough...

[tyroneboi]

Dont forget though that Fitzgerald is only back from a career threatening knee injury so I think come the 6 nations he should be coming back into the form we know he is capable of. Bowe on the other wing is in the top 5 wings in the world no question about that. I do agree though that full back is a bit of a problem but hoping Kearney is going through a period of bad form and he will come out of it sooner rather than later.

Who do you think should be in the back 3?

Kearney offers no counter attacking threat. So he cant play 15. Only can be considered as a winger. Might actually make a good winger- but hes not a 15. Fitz is out for 6 weeks with medial ligament damage and kearney is out too so it has to change now.

15- fitzgerald- 14 bowe and 11 earls. or 15-muphy 14 bowe and 11 earls.
Id consider kearney for earls slot but not for 15

Theres the answer there to who should play full back but I'd say there is as much chance of me or you starting at full back at the world cup as murphy has! It amazes me that someone who plays and is noe captain at one of the top clubs in Europe can just be more or less discarded like he has been by this management and the previous management in favour of people like Girvan Demspey!

[INDIANA]

counter attacking just isnt in our nature. Its coached out of them at schools level. Kearney is a prime example. Played 15 for Clongowes and was trained to simply kick when it weas pretty obvious he could be trained to be a very good counter attacker. But i cant see it at this stage of his career. Because he doesnt carry the ball in two hands. Kidney isnt capable of playing that type of game. Goes against his nature.