The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Dinny Breen]

I think Earls didn't see O'Driscoll inside him. We didn't deserve to win because we didn't make or take the chances.

What's worse? Not seeing him or seeing him and choosing not to pass?

That was as good a chance as you get at this level. O Driscoll was irate.

Marshall had a chance to put Gilroy in earlier but Gilroy, in fairness had overrun a bit and the pass would have been forward anyway if it stuck. Without doing any more today - with a shite scrum and great Scottish pressure on our lineout - we still should have walked in 2 more tries and won this match.

Still, that would only have been papering over cracks that need to be properly filled.

Meh, its a two way street between over running a pass and holding the pass to long. Marshall was as suspect as Gilroy, you shouldn't expect your supporting players to check their runs on an open field break at full pelt.

No but Gilroy's support line was awful he was running away from the ball towards space, he needs to funnel in so he is there to take the pass or secure the ruck.

Gilroy's line was fine the execution of the pass was woeful, waited too long to play the pass trying to commit the defender and couldn't execute under the pressure. It was a 3-4 yard pop pass?

Ignore the execution of the pass, Gilroy never changed his angle of support he needs to be coming towards the ball and the ball carrier. It's a fundamental in support play. It was an 8-10m pass, and if Gilroy was running the right line he would have been looking to gather the pass at  6-8m from the carrier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsGzU4dryzs

[NAG1]

I think Earls didn't see O'Driscoll inside him. We didn't deserve to win because we didn't make or take the chances.

What's worse? Not seeing him or seeing him and choosing not to pass?

That was as good a chance as you get at this level. O Driscoll was irate.

Marshall had a chance to put Gilroy in earlier but Gilroy, in fairness had overrun a bit and the pass would have been forward anyway if it stuck. Without doing any more today - with a shite scrum and great Scottish pressure on our lineout - we still should have walked in 2 more tries and won this match.

Still, that would only have been papering over cracks that need to be properly filled.

Meh, its a two way street between over running a pass and holding the pass to long. Marshall was as suspect as Gilroy, you shouldn't expect your supporting players to check their runs on an open field break at full pelt.

No but Gilroy's support line was awful he was running away from the ball towards space, he needs to funnel in so he is there to take the pass or secure the ruck.

Gilroy's line was fine the execution of the pass was woeful, waited too long to play the pass trying to commit the defender and couldn't execute under the pressure. It was a 3-4 yard pop pass?

Ignore the execution of the pass, Gilroy never changed his angle of support he needs to be coming towards the ball and the ball carrier. It's a fundamental in support play. It was an 8-10m pass, and if Gilroy was running the right line he would have been looking to gather the pass at  6-8m from the carrier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsGzU4dryzs

OK slightly more than 3-4 yards, but the fact remains someone who is at this level should be able to pass the ball over that distance at pace and with completion, Gilroy is entitled to think that the player is capable of making such a basic pass, while continuing his run to make best use of the space ahead, no to be worried about cutting in incase the other guy is useless and cant make the pass or that he is going to go into contact and he needs to be there to support the break down. The pass was on and it should have been made, simple.

[GalwayBayBoy]

It's going to be interesting watching the nouveau Irish rugby supporters adjusting to the reality of us being mediocre, at best. One Grand Slam in 61 years was no accident. Roll on 2070!

In fairness Ireland have by far the worst injury list in the 6 Nations at present with half the first team out injured or suspended in Healy's case and a few more handy bench options also out injured.  Despite that they could have and maybe should have won the last two games against England and Scotland. Certainly yesterday they practically threw away a game they should have had almost wrapped up at half-time. Kidney's time is up but he has been a dealt a tough hand recently even if he hasn't helped himself by clinging onto some old campaigners who are well over the hill now.

[GalwayBayBoy]

It's been written a few times already, but the lack of leadership today in a team with 1,000 odd caps was shocking.

I doubt Rory Best will play as badly again in his life, but there's a few of his counterparts who look done. ROG is easy pickings (and rightly so), but Heaslip and O'Driscoll were miles off it today. Kearney too. While I hope Gilroy was injured, for replacing him with a player of literally half his ability makes no sense on any other level.

Jackson wasn't great, but wasn't bad either. It's amazing how nobody in the Irish team can kick a dead ball apart from our fly halves.

Kidney had a very very poor day today.

Earls, ROG and Sean O'Brien made some shocking errors, O'Brien in particular has faded since his initial breakthrough year in the HC and should be worried about his place. The other two simply shouldn't be playing.

O'Brien has been one of the few Irish players to maintain his reputation during the 6 Nations and he's been Ireland's best backrower by a mile (admittedly the competition had been Heaslip and O'Mahoney who have been fairly average). He's putting up huge tackling and carrying numbers, he's making by far the most yards and he's won some turnovers. Only black mark against him is that he's given away some penalties but again his fellow backrowers have conceded just as many if not more.

He's about the last player that needs replacing on the Ireland team because if he's not there I'm not sure who's going to carry the ball effectively amongst those forwards. Especially with Healy and Ferris missing.

[seafoid]

Limerick and Waterford hurlers didn't win any all Irelands over the last 15 years.

and?

2 of the best teams and they didn't win anything. Someone upthread said in GAA the best teams always win.
They don't.  Luck and balls and history are just as important in GAA as in rugby. 

[Canalman]

Limerick and Waterford hurlers didn't win any all Irelands over the last 15 years.

and?

2 of the best teams and they didn't win anything. Someone upthread said in GAA the best teams always win.
They don't.  Luck and balls and history are just as important in GAA as in rugby.

Have massive respect for both counties but have to say that imvho that neither county were ever the "best team" during any one of the championship seasons for the last 15 years. Close maybe (especially Waterford)  but not the best . In my opinion anyway.

Now the Limerick team of the mid 1990s is a different beast. A team that really should have won an AI.

[muppet]

Hook didn't hammer Jackson directly, moreso a dig at Kidney for not having Madigan start instead. He wasn't advocating ROG at all and even derided his 15 minute cameo where things went from bad to worse.

I thought it was a bit harsh on RTÉ's analysis saying that the turning point in the game was jacksons missed kick to touch, jez this was an error ridden Irish performance and even then one bit of quality to make the most of the several line breaks would have in all likelihood ended up in a victory.

Kidney is now paying for his sins on not giving new blood a go a few years back and now his hand is forced with lack of experience in key positions, Luke Marshall should have had more run outs in the green and is now a good option in one of the centre positions but it may be too late for Kidney as I can't see him in charge beyond this 6N's campaign.

Would Conor O'Shea be mad enough to take the role on?

Its funny that RTE said that was the turning point. BBC said that it swung when Kearney opted to take the ball into contact, resulting in a penalty when there was oceans of space to kick into! Regarding O'Shea, he is someone I really like and is doing great work with Harlequins. Mark Mc Call is also doing well at Saracens but perhaps both a few years off. Thats not to say I wouldnt be happy if either got the call. For me though I think Joe Schmidt is the man to replace Kidney!

Kearney received the ball from the kick when Jackson's penalty missed touch. It was practically the same piece of action and instead of an Irish line out inside their 22, it was a Scottish penalty around half way. IIRC it started with Jackson and finished with Kearney.

[johnneycool]

Would the IRFU have enough sway with Ulster to insist that Jackson takes over kicking duties from Ruan Pineaar as is being suggested by Tony Ward in some paper or other?

[NAG1]

Would the IRFU have enough sway with Ulster to insist that Jackson takes over kicking duties from Ruan Pineaar as is being suggested by Tony Ward in some paper or other?

No 

But the South African's do have enough sway to dictate to Ulster where to play Ruan in their team.

[thewobbler]

Would the IRFU have enough sway with Ulster to insist that Jackson takes over kicking duties from Ruan Pineaar as is being suggested by Tony Ward in some paper or other?

It's got to be better for the health of Irish rugby that Ulster progress as far as possible in the Heineken Cup. Handicapping them wouldn't do any favours.

I'd guess that the only time David Humphreys didn't kick in his career was when Simon Mason was playing alongside him. It wasn't that Humphreys was a poor goal kicker then (though he did get more consistent with age), just that Mason was an exceptionally talented kicker. It's something similar now.

I've mentioned it above, but the notion the fly-halves must be the kickers has become a strange Irish thing. Granted, by nature they tend to have a bigger kick than most players, but scan just the Six Nations this year and Wales, France and Scotland have moved goal kicking duties around the team. Indeed, Scotland almost have an aversion to having a goal kicking stand off.

[Craigyhill Terror]

Would the IRFU have enough sway with Ulster to insist that Jackson takes over kicking duties from Ruan Pineaar as is being suggested by Tony Ward in some paper or other?

No 

But the South African's do have enough sway to dictate to Ulster where to play Ruan in their team.

You mean at scrum-half, by far his best position? Ulster must be disgusted they have to do that

[rosnarun]

hard to say the better team lost because they of a poor kicker . who would say the same about A wales when stephen Jones missed a sitter to gift an outplayed  Ireland a grandslam?

[GalwayBayBoy]

hard to say the better team lost because they of a poor kicker . who would say the same about A wales when stephen Jones missed a sitter to gift an outplayed  Ireland a grandslam?

I don't recall Ireland being outplayed in that game in the slightest. It was a close game with Wales going ahead first, Ireland coming back, Wales ahead again before O'Gara's drop goal put Ireland ahead late on. Indeed Ireland scored 2 tries to Wales' 0 that day.

Jones' kick was hardly a sitter either. He was almost on the half-way line.

[muppet]

hard to say the better team lost because they of a poor kicker . who would say the same about A wales when stephen Jones missed a sitter to gift an outplayed  Ireland a grandslam?

I don't recall Ireland being outplayed in that game in the slightest. It was a close game with Wales going ahead first, Ireland coming back, Wales ahead again before O'Gara's drop goal put Ireland ahead late on. Indeed Ireland scored 2 tries to Wales' 0 that day.

Jones' kick was hardly a sitter either. He was almost on the half-way line.

Henson was the man to hit that one. In the past Jones had let the hairdo hit the long range ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7YjAfBETjc

[Hound]

Why would Sexton not have been named Captain, prior to his injury?

Well for one thing, the IRFU would have been obliged to offer him a better contract - but hopefully that's not the reason!

I agree that on the face of it he'd make a good captain, but very few out halves are made captain. I can't remember the last time any of the big 5 in the North and the big 3 in the south had an out half as their long term captain (although I may be forgetting an obvious one). For a position where leadership is often a common characteristic, they seem to be made captains rarely enough.