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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: Joxer on October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

Title: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Joxer on October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM
From Hoganstand:

Casement Park could be transformed into an all-seater stadium if ambitious plans to redevelop the Belfast venue are given the green light.

Northern Ireland Sports Minister Nelson McCausland is expected to provide a paper to the Stormont Executive recommending the multi-million euro redevelopment of Casement Park along with Belfast's other main sporting grounds, Windsor Park and Ravenhill, in the coming days.

The GAA, IFA and IRFU will all make a financial contribution to their respective projects. Under the proposed plan, Casement Park would be razed to the ground and developed into a 40,000 all-seater stadium which could become the future home for the Ulster football final.

"We have gone through a rigorous process, a very detailed process by an independent consultant, and it has now been accepted so it does stack up," Ulster Council president Aogan Farrell told The Irish Daily Star.

"We wouldn't be in this game only we felt it's a development that's needed."

__________________________

Believe it when I see it.  Would be great to see and great for the GAA,  but wouldn't trust McCausland as far as I could throw him regarding this.  He'll throw a spanner in the works yet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on October 06, 2010, 02:53:45 PM
Are there not enough redeveloped, seldom used grounds around Ireland? Would there be enough games for a 40,000 Casement ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on October 06, 2010, 02:56:59 PM
Minder, this is money that has been set aside for the Maze project.

If Casement isnt redeveloped then the money will be lost to the GAA completely. Soccer and Rugby are getting their share, so if it is money that is already there that we have paid for in taexs then why not have it spent on Casement.

Thats not to say the rights and wrongs of the overall idea to build 3 stadiums for these 3 sports in a province the size that it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Oldhacker on October 06, 2010, 03:14:49 PM
There is nothing new about this. The general plans of the Ulster Council have been discussed openly for many years. It will only reach the crucial stage when the money is agreed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 04:07:21 PM
The money is there for the taking, I say take it. Especially from the Tories.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rois on October 06, 2010, 04:45:43 PM
But will it require a bigger GAA monetary commitment than a simple refurb of Casement without drastic work?  Because if the GAA has to spend more than it would spend without the Maze money then we'll be out of pocket for something we don't need. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 06, 2010, 04:50:45 PM
But will it require a bigger GAA monetary commitment than a simple refurb of Casement without drastic work?  Because if the GAA has to spend more than it would spend without the Maze money then we'll be out of pocket for something we don't need.
Can't agree, Clones is hard to get to and out of a nice new Casement would be welcome.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: MCMLX on October 06, 2010, 04:51:32 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 06, 2010, 05:01:23 PM
Quote
Quote from: Banana Man on Today at 03:12:18 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it


I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.

I'm the opposite MCMLX, must be a sadist or something in me but i love the fact that it is a full day out when you head to clones, the banter with everyone cause you leave early to get parked up etc and spend the return journey dissecting who was sh!te  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 06, 2010, 05:26:28 PM
Casement wouldn't be easy to get out of if there were 40,000 there either, especially if they are all heading on the M1.

In any case there has to be a doubt over this money in the present environment, the only thing pushing it is the semi derelict state of Windsor Park. With cuts to hospitals, schools and roads etc coming down the line it is hard to spend so much on a stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 06, 2010, 06:18:06 PM
build it and they will come
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 06, 2010, 06:39:20 PM
Anyone seen any plans or concept drawings of the proposed finished article?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
I have no problem with redveloping casement, as someone else said the money will be lost if not used up but I owuld have a problem taking Ulster Finals out of clones.

There is just something specal about ulster final day in Clones, I never liked going to casement but would be a great venue for Antrim gaels and fair play and good luck to them with it

I`d much rather travel to Belfast to a game than to Clones. Clones is a dive, full of drunks, it seems to bring out the worst in our youth and in many cases those who should have a bit more cop on. You dont get that in Casement. You can be back on the motorway within minutes after a game in Casement, you`ll spend hours trying to get out of a muddy field in Clones. Casement is long overdue this revamp, it cant  happen soon enough.
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement? Difficult to make any valid comparison, but it has taken me a good while to get out onto the motorway after matches with 20,000 people.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 06, 2010, 06:56:47 PM
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I, and plenty of others don't want to sit and watch matches. Is this really so complicated for the hierarchy to understand?  ???
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 06:57:47 PM
This is obviously bad news for Clones. The Ulster Council need a proper strategy for this. If Casement is going to be 40,000 capacity, then maybe Clones should be reduced to 25,000 and modernised; or maybe Casement should be developed with 25,000 capacity with a roof and all the bells and whistles.

The Ulster Council should be looking at the bigger picture here and not just building something big for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:01:10 PM
Bring it on.  About time Casement was redeveloped.  It should be the primary stadium for any big games in Ulster
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 07:37:52 PM
Bring it on.  About time Casement was redeveloped.  It should be the primary stadium for any big games in Ulster

Why should it be?  Just because it is in Belfast?

I think the place is away completely when there is money set aside for three stadia when there is cuts everywhere else.  And i don't like the "if its not used it will be lost". who makes the decision that it is lost and where is it lost to?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
Why should it be?   Just because it is in Belfast?

I think the place is away completely when there is money set aside for three stadia when there is cuts everywhere else.  And i don't like the "if its not used it will be lost". who makes the decision that it is lost and where is it lost to?
Transport links.  Clones is a nightmare to get to and anyway it wouldn't be considered as it doesn't fall within the jurisdiction.  If the GAA are getting the money to build from the government then I don't see that any reason not to redevelop Casement could be a good enough one
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 07:48:57 PM
Why should it be?   Just because it is in Belfast?

I think the place is away completely when there is money set aside for three stadia when there is cuts everywhere else.  And i don't like the "if its not used it will be lost". who makes the decision that it is lost and where is it lost to?
Transport links.  Clones is a nightmare to get to and anyway it wouldn't be considered as it doesn't fall within the jurisdiction.  If the GAA are getting the money to build from the government then I don't see that any reason not to redevelop Casement could be a good enough one
Would somwhere in the middle of the province not benefit everyone a bit better than Casement?  Ones from Donegal and Fermanagh don't really feel the transport links benefits if it takes longer getting home from a game with the only advantage being not sitting in a queue.  Personally i would rather sit in a queue for a while and get home sooner than be on the road for longer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 07:52:54 PM
where would you suggest? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Cde on October 06, 2010, 08:01:11 PM
Ballygawley roundabout
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 08:01:21 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.

If the money was for Casement Park OR new schools and/or hospitals, I'd agree. However, this money is separate from the Northern Ireland Stormont budget. I cannot go anywhere else but Casement Park. If we don't use, we lose it. It WON'T be re-allocated into other Stormont Departments.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:06:19 PM
where would you suggest?
Thats a tough one to be honest and i can't think of anywhere central to the province that needs doing up that much.  Perhaps Omagh if an all seater stadium is wanted for ulster final day and there is already a start there with the part that is seated already.  this could mean there is a bit left over that could be used in other ways.

However if a case can't be made for why it should be done at all rather than just because it is "long overdue" then i think the money should be used elsewhere.  is there anything really bad about how it is at the minute?  why does it have to be seated all the way round?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:18:54 PM
As ziggy says, the money is going to Casement or the GAA aren't getting a penny.  What's the problem with all-seater ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:21:40 PM
As ziggy says, the money is going to Casement or the GAA aren't getting a penny.  What's the problem with all-seater ?

Whats the need for it.  I love standing at a match and roaring a team on and if i ever end up in a seated area then im usually standing for most of the match anyway.

If it doesn't go to Casement where does it go?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
It's going nowhere and I prefer to sit and roar
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 06, 2010, 08:33:33 PM
It's going nowhere and I prefer to sit and roar

Do you need 40000 places to chose from?  But sure it only a few million they are talking about...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 08:38:33 PM
It's going nowhere and I prefer to sit and roar

Do you need 40000 places to chose from?  But sure it only a few million they are talking about...

I think the GAA's cut of it, is £50,000,000. IFA getting £20,000,000 and Ulster Rugby getting £30,000,000.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 06, 2010, 08:39:45 PM
Why are we discussing it? The money is being given and its going nowhere else. I'll be happy to watch our club teams in Casement. The place could be used for other things like concerts and rallys ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on October 06, 2010, 09:20:37 PM
Why "all seater" ?
Nothing like a bit of an oul terrace
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 06, 2010, 09:21:46 PM
i would redevelope casement with 2 brilliant stands either side of the pitch with covered terraces behind each goals.
use for all Ulster finals and any AI qf that involves 2 ulster teams, could be used for national league finals the odd time also. also compromise rules
The money wont be used for anything else.
Yes it could be given out to all the 6 northern counties to develope all their county grounds but then we would have a load of average stadiums in ulster and no great ones.
This would become the GAA's 2nd best ground.
get it built and fcuk the begrudgers
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 06, 2010, 10:01:42 PM
i would redevelope casement with 2 brilliant stands either side of the pitch with covered terraces behind each goals.

f**k that.

The prawn sandwich munchers can sit behind the goals.

Why should the people that want to stand get packed into the worst viewing sections?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 06, 2010, 10:04:44 PM
i would redevelope casement with 2 brilliant stands either side of the pitch with covered terraces behind each goals.

f**k that.

The prawn sandwich munchers can sit behind the goals.

Why should the people that want to stand get packed into the worst viewing sections?
It could equally be asked why they should get the best, could it not?  Also, seats cost more to sit on than standing in a terrace so people in seats should get better value for their money
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 06, 2010, 10:24:40 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 06, 2010, 10:46:26 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
1961 is irrelevant - how many of the 41,000 came by car? When was the last time there was a crowd anywhere close to 30,000 in Casement?

Whatever about the 1992 attendance, the finals in Clones have been pretty consistent at around 30,000+ - I think it has been around the 33,000 mark for the past 3-4 years anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Beir Bua on October 06, 2010, 10:56:14 PM
Ulster Finals in Clones in  2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 were all sell outs at 35,000 full capacity and there was demand for more tickets, the Ulster Final in 2006 in Croke Park had 50,000 attending, 2005 was 60,000 and 2004 had 68,000 attending.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: bcarrier on October 06, 2010, 11:15:45 PM
bring it on .
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 06, 2010, 11:21:14 PM
Ulster Finals in Clones in  2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 were all sell outs at 35,000 full capacity and there was demand for more tickets, the Ulster Final in 2006 in Croke Park had 50,000 attending, 2005 was 60,000 and 2004 had 68,000 attending.

I'm fairly sure the 2004 final had over 70,000 at it. Could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 06, 2010, 11:56:43 PM
Yes it could be given out to all the 6 northern counties to develope all their county grounds but then we would have a load of average stadiums in ulster and no great ones.

That's the thing, the money can't be split for various stadia. It's for one or none.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 07, 2010, 12:29:34 AM
Quote
When was the last time there was a crowd anywhere close to 30,000 in Casement?

Armagh v Derry had 28000 or so, when was that 2006?

The problem with Casement is a total lack of atmosphere in the surrounding area. You can go to Clones with the flag on the car and stop en route for an ice cream, I don't fancy doing that in Hillsborough. 

There is a broader issue about location in that Belfast is not well located in Ireland generally. It is fine for a Antrim/Down game or even a Derry/Down game, but it isn't really useful for league finals and the like except for a very limited set of teams.

If the GAA were really insightful, and I suspect that they aren't, they should  build a 30,000 seater with roof and have concerts and open it to the rugger and soccer folks from time to time. The latter especially might not come,  but that would show them up too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 08:08:15 AM
It could equally be asked why they should get the best, could it not?  Also, seats cost more to sit on than standing in a terrace so people in seats should get better value for their money

They already have the seated stand down one side of the pitch. Why is it fair to remove the terracing from the other side?

Yes, per ticket, seating pricing is higher.


However, spectator density is much higher on terracing than in seats, I cannot find figures comparing the two but I would imagine it is of the order of 2:1 ratio. Therefore it is not "costing" the GAA to have terracing - so the argument of providing better facilities is somewhat spurious* - and looks at it only from the perspective of the person in the seat, not the two people that would be standing in their place.

*It is simply countered with "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 08:53:04 AM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Ulster County? Where?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 09:35:18 AM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Ulster County? Where?
See the edited version above
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on October 07, 2010, 01:33:12 PM
Take the money and build it on the new for far less at the Maze.

Better still build a new school or two for the same money.
Why do we need new schools with many of them not having enough pupils and some even having staff ....but no pupils. Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.

Is Finaghy the nearest rail station?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 01:36:50 PM
there'd be no problem getting shuttle buses from great victoria.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 07, 2010, 01:46:53 PM
Is Finaghy the nearest rail station?

It might be a bit closer to Balmoral?

see google map link below.

I always thought that Musgrave Park would've made a great site for the shared stadium - close to motorway and train stations, in neutral area, and located half way between Windsor and Casement.


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Belfast+BT9+7,+United+Kingdom+(Balmoral)&daddr=54.57309,-5.97697+to:88-100+Andersonstown+Road,+Belfast+BT11+9,+United+Kingdom+(Casement+Park)+to:Belfast+BT10+0,+United+Kingdom+(Finaghy)&hl=en&geocode=FW6lQAMdb-uk_yH1vdaSRH95qA%3BFSK4QAMddsyk_ylFEKTJIQZhSDHgEyuesj8PEw%3BFYS5QAMdubCk_yEMQkIq3GHzqg%3BFfqTQAMdaKSk_yHy4KM3Bk5auA&mra=pd&mrcr=1&via=1&dirflg=w&sll=54.588167,-5.947179&sspn=0.088925,0.108318&ie=UTF8&ll=54.569673,-5.981069&spn=0.022241,0.04343&z=15

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: andoireabu on October 07, 2010, 06:44:08 PM
Can anyone tell me why it HAS to be spent on stadia and nowhere else? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
1961 is irrelevant - how many of the 41,000 came by car?

Then you should have qualified your original question!!   ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
Has there ever been 35,000 people at a game in Casement?

Up until the Ulster Finals were recently taken to Croke Park, Casement held the record attendance for an Ulster Final, when a crowd of over 41,000 attended the Down v Armagh Ulster Final of 1961. In more recent years, the biggest attendance that i can recall was the 1992 Ulster semi-final between Down and Derry, and the attendance that day (from memory) was somewhere in the region of 35,000.
1961 is irrelevant - how many of the 41,000 came by car?

Then you should have qualified your original question!!   ::)
Why? We were talking about access to and communting to the ground. I would have thought it was obvious.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:17:53 PM
Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Is Belfast the Capital City of Ulster? Do the provinces have capital cities?

Anyway, as for Casement and rail services, that's fine for the small proprtion of Ulster GAA fans close to our 'vast' rail network. It would be interesting to know how many people currently use rail to travel to games in Casement. I can't imagine it being too significant.

As for busses or Park and Ride schemes, there's no reason why the same couldn't be done for Clones to relieve congestion. Part and ride from Monaghan. It's not something that could only be a solution for Casement. The uptake on such schemes would be another matter altogether.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 07:23:21 PM
Why? We were talking about access to and communting to the ground. I would have thought it was obvious.

Well that being the case, did not 41,000 access the ground in 1961?

And you don't think they travelled by car? What then were the alternatives? Are you arguing they came by rail? There is little or no difference to the geographical spread of the rail system today, compared to back then - certainly for the competing counties. That being the case then, would that not support the extension of Casement Park to a 40,000 seater?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
Why? We were talking about access to and communting to the ground. I would have thought it was obvious.

Well that being the case, did not 41,000 access the ground in 1961?

And you don't think they travelled by car? What then were the alternatives? Are you arguing they came by rail? There is little or no difference to the geographical spread of the rail system today, compared to back then - certainly for the competing counties. That being the case then, would that not support the extension of Casement Park to a 40,000 seater?
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bord na Mona man on October 07, 2010, 08:18:21 PM
Banging an old drum here, but 40,000 seats is a total waste.
How about 10-15k seated and 20-25k terracing?

Build 40,000 seats and seats numbered 35,000-40,000 will probably only be occupied once every couple of years.
When it breaks down to roughly €1,000 per seat when you construct a seated stand, this makes no economic sense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 07, 2010, 09:43:42 PM
God there is really a shortage of rocket scientists on this topic.
Look the Northern Ireland Assembly was given 100 million years ago to build one stadium for all sports in NI(ie 6 counties)
The IFA couldnt agree to anything so the money was split for the 3,
GAA got 50,000,000 as its the biggest sporting org in the North
Ulster Rugby get 30,000,000
IFa get 20,000,000 cause no one watches them.
This money is for nothing else only this.
All 50,000,000 goes to the building of a GAA stadium within the 6 counties.
Sooner its built the better.
Clones is a kip.full of pissed up teenagers, not a nice atmosphere to bring the children too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 07, 2010, 10:16:00 PM
Personally I've always liked the atmosphere at Clones, but anyway...

Rather than fill the country with Croke Parks that are seldom going to be filled, the emphasis should be on smaller but better stadiums.  That means better safety (i.e. all-seater with modern design) better comfort (i.e. plastic seats and a roof) and better access.  40,000 sounds like a perfectly reasonable capacity for high profile Ulster championship matches.  If it's Armagh and Tyrone and you're expecting 60,000 then throw the game into Croke Park.

This argument that the stadium will spend most of its time unused could be applied to any stadium no matter how much it costs to develop.  The only way to overcome that is to be clever in how you design the thing. Make it multi-use. The Reebok Stadium in Bolton is a 'hotel shaped like a football stadium', its cash registers keep on ringing whether there's a game on or not. Old Trafford has a big merchandise store and visitors' centre built in. Croke Park has all sorts of conference and wedding facilities built in to keep the income flowing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
I'd say a new Casement stadium could help rejuvinate West Belfast. I think it is only fitting that Ireland's second city has a decent stadium for our national games, like Eamonmaca1 says it needn't sit idle for most of the year like people are saying! Huge possibilities and if £50m is being thrown our way we may as well use it. Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc to keep it ticking over - Never mind f**king Clones, absolute rat-race getting in and out of the place! Belfast is far more accessible!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:13:01 PM
That means better safety (i.e. all-seater with modern design)

Jesus, here we go.

Another f**king health and safety drone.


Name a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

 :D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 07, 2010, 11:27:27 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

 :D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.

People laughed at these days when they were suggested for Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 11:37:43 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

 :D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.
f**k me it's not Beirut! Any brand new stadium is going to have huge commercial potential. Stranger things have happened!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 11:54:37 PM
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are against the Casement redevelopment on the basis of access?

I have been to many, many matches in Clones and Casement, and the transport infrastructure around Casement is far superior to that of Clones (and I'm making this comparison, as Clones to me is the only genuine alternative). Belfast has frequent taxi and bus services to the City Centre that pass the Casement Park area, Park and Ride facilities to the City Centre from points along the motorway, and of course the motorway itself along with other main routes into that side of the City. There are also rail links and regular bus services. Throw in a couple of airports as well.

I have found (from personal experience) that getting out of Belfast after a big game is easier than Clones. Clones has hosted many big games - in response to your earlier question I have already pointed out that Casement held over 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final, and a crowd of around 35,000 for the Ulster semi-final of 1992. Someone else has pointed out that there was just under 28,000 for the Armagh v Derry semi-final in 2005, and I think there was a crowd of around 30,000 for the replay between Derry and Antrim in the Ulster semi-final of 2000.

These all point to evidence that Casement has hosted crowds of 30,000 plus without issues.

Just for interest by the way, I took this photo a few years back, before the floodlights were installed - the M1 is above the ground in the picture.

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Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 07, 2010, 11:59:30 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 08, 2010, 09:50:13 AM
Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Is Belfast the Capital City of Ulster? Do the provinces have capital cities?

Anyway, as for Casement and rail services, that's fine for the small proprtion of Ulster GAA fans close to our 'vast' rail network. It would be interesting to know how many people currently use rail to travel to games in Casement. I can't imagine it being too significant.

As for busses or Park and Ride schemes, there's no reason why the same couldn't be done for Clones to relieve congestion. Part and ride from Monaghan. It's not something that could only be a solution for Casement. The uptake on such schemes would be another matter altogether.
I have a great affection and many happy memories of casement stretching to the late 1960's, but be realistic the executive in Stormont is providing the funding, personnally if the UC spent it in Clones I wouldn't care but I can't see the skirt wearing minister for Cuulture, Oorts en Leesure agreeing!! :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 08, 2010, 10:22:06 AM
I can't see the skirt wearing minister for Cuulture, Oorts en Leesure agreeing!! :D

Yes, but they've realised that £50million to the GAA is the price they must pay if they're to bail out their beloved Norn Iron with yet more public money.

Local soccer draws such small support that they were unable to maintain the free stand they got at Windsor, and now can't afford to bring Windsor up to Fifa minimum standards. Notwithstanding their miniscule support, they think its their right to bankrolled by the taxpayer. Hands up everyody that remembers Windsor Park getting a free stand whilst GAA crowds three times the size were standing on grass banks and got nothing.

Unionists will throw money to avoid the prospect of NI being forced to play in Scotland because more people would then question why we have two teams on this small island. Mc Causland and his OWC ilk would regard a single all ireland soccer team as a very symbolic weakening of their beloved union, and would regard any price as worth paying to avoid that.

That's what this has always been about, not the GAA's greater need, and certainly not the fact that there are better things to spend the money on.

The only difference between now and 1983 is that we've now got devolution and can now demand that our greater needs get funded equitably. Side deals between english Tory ministers and local unionists no longer count. They either give us the share that our larger crowds dictate we should have, or the deal's off and they can either play their games in Ayr, or start running a few lottos.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Two Hands FFS on October 08, 2010, 10:47:26 AM
I've been going to Casement to watch club & county matches(7/8 times a year) for about 20 years now & I honestly can barely recall any trouble either in the stadium or outside. As someone said you'd think it was Beirut!!!
The Ulster Council are going to take the money, they'd be crazy not to. There hardly like to say ' don't worry about the £50 million  we've got a nice ground in a different country that has tradition & is good craic, plus you'd get yourhead knocked in up andytown'
 The Ulster council won't build a 40,000 seater stadium & then not think of the infrastructure & parking/restaurants. They will have already thought of this. They are very well organised & I'd be very surprised if the money comes that they don't make a good job of it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 08, 2010, 11:30:02 AM
just out of interest, does anyone know if they get the £50m will there b stipulations attached e.g. i must be made available for soccer games if something happened with the updated Windsor park, wouldn't shock me if nelson switched the goalposts on this one...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 08, 2010, 12:07:18 PM
just out of interest, does anyone know if they get the £50m will there b stipulations attached e.g. i must be made available for soccer games if something happened with the updated Windsor park, wouldn't shock me if nelson switched the goalposts on this one...

if they did that, they'd clearly be collapsing the deal, and they wouldn't get their beloved Windsor done up, which is what this is really all about (see above).

With devolution, this deal must be approved by both sides, not just unionists. Thankfully, they can't ignore our larger attendances like they did in 1983.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
Quote
Name a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
At a club game a few years back, one of our lads got smacked off the ball. His Da ran on and thumped the guy who done it. If’ he’d been sitting in a seat behind a fence, he probably wouldn’t have.

Also, at another club game, similar situation where a lad’s mum & dad both ran on to smack a boy.
There’s 2 examples! Now we have a fence, you’ll be glad to hear :)


Has anyone got the plans for Casement that were in the Irish News a while back?
They also show new car parks south of the M1 and a bridge over to casement. Also don’t forget the many car parks on the boucher rd


Quote
You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.

IMO the andytown road has a hell of a lot more going for it than Jones’ had before croker was redeveloped. Before croker was redeveloped would Jurys have considered running a hotel out there??

Do yous think Ulster rugby would ever be interested in using it for a big tie?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 08, 2010, 02:54:35 PM
Quote
Name a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
At a club game a few years back, one of our lads got smacked off the ball. His Da ran on and thumped the guy who done it. If’ he’d been sitting in a seat behind a fence, he probably wouldn’t have.

Would the prevention be the seat or the fence?


Also, at another club game, similar situation where a lad’s mum & dad both ran on to smack a boy.
There’s 2 examples! Now we have a fence, you’ll be glad to hear :)

Not really.


Quote
IMO the andytown road has a hell of a lot more going for it than Jones’ had before croker was redeveloped.

There already are big conference hotels in the city centre, which will make any Andytown version a hard sell.

Quote
Do yous think Ulster rugby would ever be interested in using it for a big tie?

I would consider it highly unlikely - but not impossible.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 03:11:33 PM
I was just joking about the two examples there.

Quote
There already are big conference hotels in the city centre, which will make any Andytown version a hard sell.
There were already plenty of convention centres in Dublin city centre before croker opened, yet its successful. I’d say the unique location of having a convention in a sports stadium, may help market it as a venue. I don’t see why it would be much different for a new Casement. Andytown isn’t the nicest location, either is drumcondra, and neither are in the city centre.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:06:02 PM
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are against the Casement redevelopment on the basis of access?

I have been to many, many matches in Clones and Casement, and the transport infrastructure around Casement is far superior to that of Clones (and I'm making this comparison, as Clones to me is the only genuine alternative). Belfast has frequent taxi and bus services to the City Centre that pass the Casement Park area, Park and Ride facilities to the City Centre from points along the motorway, and of course the motorway itself along with other main routes into that side of the City. There are also rail links and regular bus services. Throw in a couple of airports as well.

I have found (from personal experience) that getting out of Belfast after a big game is easier than Clones. Clones has hosted many big games - in response to your earlier question I have already pointed out that Casement held over 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final, and a crowd of around 35,000 for the Ulster semi-final of 1992. Someone else has pointed out that there was just under 28,000 for the Armagh v Derry semi-final in 2005, and I think there was a crowd of around 30,000 for the replay between Derry and Antrim in the Ulster semi-final of 2000.

These all point to evidence that Casement has hosted crowds of 30,000 plus without issues.

Just for interest by the way, I took this photo a few years back, before the floodlights were installed - the M1 is above the ground in the picture.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Thanks for the photo, but I drive past it along the M1 twice a day and have been to countless matches at Casement so i'm familiar with the set-up.

And i'm not against Casement on the basis of access at all. I'm just making the point that anywhere you have 35,000 people trying to leave at the same time, you'll have delays. I've been to Casement at matches with 20,000 people and it has taken me half an hour just to get out onto the motorway.

And you say there were "no issues" when Casement has hosted big matches. I never said there was. But i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.
Personally the delay doesn't bother me - if it did i'd sit at home. But it's the main argument used by those who favour Casement over Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government

Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 07:25:09 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tyssam5 on October 08, 2010, 07:42:02 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.

Why? A good few lads would come home from England and elsewhere to see an Ulster Final
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 08:24:40 PM

Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.
Some delays yes, though not as bad as getting out of Clones.  I was thinking of the other motorway as well
There would be a right few from North Armagh would get the train when Armagh are playing, I would imagine the same would happen if Down were drawn to play there
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 08:58:50 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.

Why? A good few lads would come home from England and elsewhere to see an Ulster Final
I'd imagine it wouldn't be a significant proportion of the 35-40,000. I'd also imagine they'd head home for the weekend and not fly in for throw-in and out after the final whistle.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 08, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Allow me to adopt your debating style for my reply.

...i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.

I never said they were. 

That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

But you don't appear to be debating pros and cons at this stage - all you appear to be saying is that Casement is at no more of an advantage or disadvantage to host big games than Clones.

That being the case, what was your rationale for querying matches where Casement Park had held 30,000?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 08, 2010, 11:27:39 PM
Allow me to adopt your debating style for my reply.

...i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.

I never said they were. 

That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

But you don't appear to be debating pros and cons at this stage - all you appear to be saying is that Casement is at no more of an advantage or disadvantage to host big games than Clones.

That being the case, what was your rationale for querying matches where Casement Park had held 30,000?
To see how long it took people to get out of Casementr / home when there was a crowd similar to that of matches in Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 09, 2010, 01:31:12 AM
To see how long it took people to get out of Casementr / home when there was a crowd similar to that of matches in Clones.

I see - so the replies I have offered up here have convinced you that there is little or no difference in those respects (being discussed) between Casement and Clones!!   

Excellent!! ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: mrgaa1 on October 09, 2010, 09:13:09 AM
Clones is a great place to watch a match with its natural ampitheatre - but the town is a kip - there ain't enough facilities such as toilets at that place and it can be difficult to get out of the town if you don't know the backroads out :-X

However to do up Casement Park needs some investigation.

First of all £50m is far too much to do up Casement - to make it 40,000 all seater would cost in the region of £25-30m.  Where does the rest of the monies go or where is it allowed to go?  Personally I'd like to see grants becoming available to normal clubs around the counties to allow them to finish of projects at their own grounds - a new pitch, parking, scoreboards etc.....

One of the main issues I have with Casement is parking itself.  Where will everyone park?  The slip road of the M1 can not cope and leads to tailbacks.  Of course you can go on ahead and come back on yourself but all-in-alll parking is the major concern I'd have. 

Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports.  A museum reflecting the past and a new stadium reflecting the future for all people.  It would have been a great legacy for the future but small mindedness from a few people can still over-rule the wishes of the many. 
The maze project would have had huge car parking, great facilities, easy access for all, a fantastic new stadium that could have been shared by all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 09, 2010, 10:11:26 AM
Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports. 

No way.


1. Maze is in an area which would be mostly hostile to GAA fans - you think the clampers around Croke are bad? You'd have some fun returning to a row of cars with windows out.

2. The pitch sizes of the 3 sports are incompatible - as was clearly seen by the lack of atmosphere at Croke for all games bar the rugby v England and France.

3. There are no facilities at the maze. Such facilities would be built solely for use on match days, and would never be able to survive the rest of the year. Leading to temporary stuff which would be rubbish.

4. It would be an all-seater stadium. I do not want an all seater stadium. I am sure many, many others are of the same opinion.

5. The crowds for an Ulster final far outweigh the crowds for Ulster or Norn Iron games, tickets were available for Ravenhill last night as late as wednesday, maybe even at the gate. That is a ~15K capacity stadium which was not full for a Heineken cup game. Norn Iron, well.... I dunno what kinda numbers they would get - hard to judge based on Windsor.

6. There would be no social scene around the Maze. Many have their pre and post game social arrangements for Casement, Clones, Ravenhill or Windsor. Such a thing simply wouldn't be possible at an isolated stadium built in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 09, 2010, 11:31:10 AM
Guys lets me realistic here the £50m must be spent in the O6C's end off. The debate about Clones is moot. Anyway Clones was chosen as the provincial ground because the Freestate Government don't tax the receipts, HQ was moved to Armagh to source funding, so the UC is really playing the game, a bit like the dealin' men from Crossmaglen, they'll strike oil next!! :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports. 

No way.


1. Maze is in an area which would be mostly hostile to GAA fans - you think the clampers around Croke are bad? You'd have some fun returning to a row of cars with windows out.

2. The pitch sizes of the 3 sports are incompatible - as was clearly seen by the lack of atmosphere at Croke for all games bar the rugby v England and France.

3. There are no facilities at the maze. Such facilities would be built solely for use on match days, and would never be able to survive the rest of the year. Leading to temporary stuff which would be rubbish.

4. It would be an all-seater stadium. I do not want an all seater stadium. I am sure many, many others are of the same opinion.

5. The crowds for an Ulster final far outweigh the crowds for Ulster or Norn Iron games, tickets were available for Ravenhill last night as late as wednesday, maybe even at the gate. That is a ~15K capacity stadium which was not full for a Heineken cup game. Norn Iron, well.... I dunno what kinda numbers they would get - hard to judge based on Windsor.

6. There would be no social scene around the Maze. Many have their pre and post game social arrangements for Casement, Clones, Ravenhill or Windsor. Such a thing simply wouldn't be possible at an isolated stadium built in the middle of nowhere.
That's the plan for Casement too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 11:44:05 AM
To see how long it took people to get out of Casementr / home when there was a crowd similar to that of matches in Clones.

I see - so the replies I have offered up here have convinced you that there is little or no difference in those respects (being discussed) between Casement and Clones!!   

Excellent!! ;D
Yes, transport links are clearly better around Casement. But you'll be stuck in traffic no matter where the match is. You won't be out of Casement in 10 minutes either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 12:20:23 PM
Casement would be handy for any ulster team that draws dublin in the backdoor. The game could be played outside croker for once!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 12:56:35 PM
Casement would be handy for any ulster team that draws dublin in the backdoor. The game could be played outside croker for once!
There is no excuse for not having their qualifier games outside Croker as it is. How many were at the Tipp and Armagh qualifier games? Would have fitted more than comfortably into any number of provincial grounds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: put-it-up-again on October 09, 2010, 01:00:58 PM
Am I the only one thinking that converting Casement to a 40,000 seater stadium is a waste of money?

Do we really need a 40,000 stadium? Look at Breffni Park, it's way bigger than it needs to be and it takes away from atmosphere in a game. Bar the Ulster Final, so one game each year, it would never be full.

Sounds stupid to do up Casement, Windsor and Ravenhill as well. Surely that money could be spent better to serve the general public
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 01:42:55 PM
No, the money is there for sports stadia, so lets use it. We could question whether this is the best way to use it. What about the idea of 20-25,000 capacity indoor/roofed stadium - proper state of the art and something different to anything else in the country, yet not making existing grounds (and previous investment) redundant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 02:26:28 PM
wasnt there plans of the redevelopment in the irish news in the not so distant past? i think it included a walk way to a carpark right beside the M1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rufus T Firefly on October 09, 2010, 03:35:31 PM
But you'll be stuck in traffic no matter where the match is. You won't be out of Casement in 10 minutes either.

I think I've just has a déjà vu moment!!   ::)

I'm very much open to correction on this, but as I recall, when mention was made of the £50 million available to do up Casement, there was alos talk that this was only half the investment needed, and that the idea was to invest something like £100 million? Obviously the remainder will have to be found by the Ulster Council elsewhere - anyone else recall this, or is it a figment of my imagination?   
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 09, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
wasnt there plans of the redevelopment in the irish news in the not so distant past? i think it included a walk way to a carpark right beside the M1
Yeah, there were plans for a footbridge across the M1 to a car park at Musgrave. I'd assume all traffic would still come off at the Stockman's Lane junction if that was to happen.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 09, 2010, 04:23:52 PM
wasnt there plans of the redevelopment in the irish news in the not so distant past? i think it included a walk way to a carpark right beside the M1
Yeah, there were plans for a footbridge across the M1 to a car park at Musgrave. I'd assume all traffic would still come off at the Stockman's Lane junction if that was to happen.

anyone got a link to these plans? would love another look at them

would be great to get one of the best stadias on the island in belfast
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on October 10, 2010, 08:35:42 PM
Why are people being so dismissive of the idea of a stadium in West Belfast having non-sports use in addition to hosting games? Are they aware that there are hotels and conference centres in Belfast? Are they aware that Belfast has a bustling retail trade? Are they aware that West Belfast could use a bit of commercial development like this? (Psst! They have museums and a university in Belfast too!) And to answer someone's question, yes, I have been to Casement. Many times.

The argument about access seems to be that putting 35,000 people into a single location is going to make it hard for them all to get in and out, therefore Casement is a bad choice. Well how, pray tell, is that different from any other location for a stadium?  It doesn't matter where you put the thing, access is always going to be tricky.  Even if you put it out in the middle of nowhere at the atmosphere-free Maze site you'd have the same problem. No matter how many access/egress points you put in, it's going to take a while to get back onto the road.

One more thing. What's the big rush? Does anyone here ever go to a major match and expect to be able to jump in the car and speed off without any delays? Is it really such a big deal that you have to wait a while?

Personally, anytime I go to an AI final I park in that college nearby.  After the match we take a walk down O'Connell St and have a bite to eat in the Kylemore Cafe.  By the time we saunter back up to the college most of the rest of the match traffic is long gone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 11, 2010, 06:04:05 AM
Personally I thought the maze project was a better option for all sports. 

No way.


1. Maze is in an area which would be mostly hostile to GAA fans - you think the clampers around Croke are bad? You'd have some fun returning to a row of cars with windows out.

2. The pitch sizes of the 3 sports are incompatible - as was clearly seen by the lack of atmosphere at Croke for all games bar the rugby v England and France.

3. There are no facilities at the maze. Such facilities would be built solely for use on match days, and would never be able to survive the rest of the year. Leading to temporary stuff which would be rubbish.

4. It would be an all-seater stadium. I do not want an all seater stadium. I am sure many, many others are of the same opinion.

5. The crowds for an Ulster final far outweigh the crowds for Ulster or Norn Iron games, tickets were available for Ravenhill last night as late as wednesday, maybe even at the gate. That is a ~15K capacity stadium which was not full for a Heineken cup game. Norn Iron, well.... I dunno what kinda numbers they would get - hard to judge based on Windsor.

6. There would be no social scene around the Maze. Many have their pre and post game social arrangements for Casement, Clones, Ravenhill or Windsor. Such a thing simply wouldn't be possible at an isolated stadium built in the middle of nowhere.
That's the plan for Casement too.

I know... but I'm bitching about that too  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orangemac on October 11, 2010, 11:12:45 PM
Seems like a complete waste of money.

How many times has Casement been full in the last 10 years?

How many times a year would an all seater be full?

There is £50m earmarked for GAA stadia. Could the GAA not cut a deal that it would get £40/£45 million and allocate this to clubs throughout Ulster?

The last thing we need is another white elephant like the Gaelic Grounds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:18:47 PM
Seems like a complete waste of money.

How many times has Casement been full in the last 10 years?

How many times a year would an all seater be full?

There is £50m earmarked for GAA stadia. Could the GAA not cut a deal that it would get £40/£45 million and allocate this to clubs throughout Ulster?

The last thing we need is another white elephant like the Gaelic Grounds.
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on October 11, 2010, 11:30:50 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I give up ardmhachaabu, it's like talking to a brick wall!  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ardmhachaabu on October 11, 2010, 11:32:49 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I give up ardmhachaabu, it's like talking to a brick wall!  :D
You are telling me!  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 11, 2010, 11:36:45 PM
There's no harm in debating the merits of it though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 13, 2010, 12:05:46 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I dunno.

Knowing the weasel words of politicans, there are probably exceptions and loopholes.

After all, if an hotel/conf centre were to be built - linking that to the act of building a stand to view a football match is tenuous!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ExiledGael on October 13, 2010, 06:02:07 PM
It's not up for debate.  If the GAA get the cash, it has to be spent in redeveloping Casement.  The end.

I dunno.

Knowing the weasel words of politicans, there are probably exceptions and loopholes.


How long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 13, 2010, 06:27:34 PM
Quote
How long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..

Sure wasn't Casement a knight of the British Empire.

in any case the people who attend Casement Park also pay taxes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on October 13, 2010, 07:16:07 PM
Quote
How long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..

Sure wasn't Casement a knight of the British Empire.

in any case the people who attend Casement Park also pay taxes.

f**k 'em.


If they wanna go down that road, then I'm sure they'll be happy to get Liverpool (and a few others) to rename the Spion Kop.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Banana Man on October 14, 2010, 10:31:55 AM
Quote
Quote
How long before the row erupts about changing the name of the stadium too if it is to be funded by the government..

Sure wasn't Casement a knight of the British Empire.

right enough they can't argue about the name sir roger  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: pointlad on October 14, 2010, 04:48:04 PM
Theres all this talk about funds being short, and all off a sudden this grant has appeared. As you may be aware Casement only has a new Stadium Control Tower built just over a year. What will happen to this if the new stadium gets the go ahead? Many thousands being wasted for no reason. The Ulster GAA board should of had a bit of logic before building this if they knew the new stadium was in the pipeline. The new Control Room is magnificent according to the links below :

http://vimeo.com/5319563

http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/news/pilkington+watches+over+casement+park.htm
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on October 14, 2010, 06:05:39 PM
Theres all this talk about funds being short, and all off a sudden this grant has appeared. As you may be aware Casement only has a new Stadium Control Tower built just over a year. What will happen to this if the new stadium gets the go ahead? Many thousands being wasted for no reason. The Ulster GAA board should of had a bit of logic before building this if they knew the new stadium was in the pipeline. The new Control Room is magnificent according to the links below :

http://vimeo.com/5319563

http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/news/pilkington+watches+over+casement+park.htm
Buttons in comparison to £50m though. And i'd imagine that even if it all goes ahead, it will be at least 5 years before a new stadium would be in use.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 14, 2010, 09:39:15 PM
Theres all this talk about funds being short, and all off a sudden this grant has appeared. As you may be aware Casement only has a new Stadium Control Tower built just over a year. What will happen to this if the new stadium gets the go ahead? Many thousands being wasted for no reason. The Ulster GAA board should of had a bit of logic before building this if they knew the new stadium was in the pipeline. The new Control Room is magnificent according to the links below :

http://vimeo.com/5319563

http://www.pilkington.com/europe/uk+and+ireland/english/news/pilkington+watches+over+casement+park.htm

Did you actually read the Pilkington article you linked to?
It clearly states that the control tower was " funded under Sport Northern Ireland’s Stadia Safety Program. " If there were thousands wasted, they weren't the GAA's.

And again, a few thousand is nothing compared to £50 million, if Nelson can ever bring himself to give it to us. Will his fear of NI being forced to play abroad overcome his loathing of the GAA?

I take it there's no outline plans ready for Casement yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orangemac on October 14, 2010, 10:54:06 PM
Could we not just throw some new toilets and some bigger dugouts and spend the rest elsewhere?

It's not like Nelson or Tom Elliott will ever be there to see what work has went on ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 27, 2010, 02:47:56 PM
Is this project under threat from today's spending review announced by the British Government?

Probably, but moving on.....

We now have a little more detail on the plans for Casement. Noteworthy that it's planned to be 80% covered seating. I'd assume that the other 20% (8000 people ) will be standing. Sitting in the rain has got to be the most unpleasant way to watch a match and I'd hope the architects would reflect that.

From the Andytown News:

“the plan would involve demolishing the Casement Park stadium and building, on the same site, a new stadium which, in contrast to the existing 32,300 capacity, would accommodate maximum spectator capacity of 40,000.

The new Casement Park stadium would have 80 per cent covered seating and would include about 2,000 premium seats, 580 corporate seats and car parking facilities.

http://www.belfastmedia.com/features_article.php?ID=1343
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on October 27, 2010, 10:47:23 PM
We could here something very soon on this issue, hopefully!


whats your source?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 27, 2010, 10:54:42 PM
I  don't see how this can go ahead in the times that are in it, with layoffs in the public sector. The stadia can do another while until times are better and if the IFA don't like that then they can collect some money themselves to do up Windsor Pk.
Title: Re: Derry Club football and Hurling
Post by: snatter on October 29, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
The green light may only be 3 weeks away. Days really!

perhaps,  but just watch Poots and co throwing every possible delay against it at the planning stage.
For an insight, just look at how they delayed a decision for the Bryansford, County Down application.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
I think people are missing the point of this discussion. The money is going to Casement end of story. What we should be discussing is what approach the GAA will take.

Will they do the right thing and build a top class stadium capable of hosting a wide range of events(small version of croke park)?
50 million is the amount from Stormont but several papers in the past have mentioned a budget of 100million for the stadium. If this was indeed the money involved then the potential is huge. To quote one of the above bloggers the stadium would be 40000 with 32000 seats and 8000 terrace - this is ideal. All those moaning about standing - well guess what you stand at the terrace, the vast majority of people like to sit and have the option to stand when they want! I would like to think that the whole stadium is roofed as the GAA seem to think Ireland is in the tropics and that it never rains - we need covered stadia even the terrace. The terrace should also be easily fitted with temporary seating if needed.
If done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
Another argument against the development is that there is no room around the stadium - you can say that about anywhere - look at the previous aerial shots of Croke - pretty tight fit. Most of the people oppossed to this development were probably against the upgrade of Croke or Lansdowne also and now look at the facilities there - pretty impressive not to mention the knock on effect such developments have on the local area and certainly West Belfast is crying out for investment

My greatest fear is the GAA will do the half hearted effort they have done many times  in the past. Take a look at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick for a modern stadium it looks like it was built in the 1920's not to mention again the fact that it has no cover at all - at least put a simple roof on - even somethng like the new RDS stand is better than nothing.
A similar GAA project at the moment is the new Pairc ui chaoimh. That project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -  :-[

Lets hope we have the stadium we need/deserve - interesting times ahead!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 03, 2010, 11:41:56 AM
Quote
If done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

Quote
That project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -


Reality sometimes imposes on people and Páirc Uí Chaoimh is going to get more big games than Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on November 03, 2010, 11:51:09 AM
Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself

Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.

It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: thewanderer on November 03, 2010, 02:22:30 PM
it wouldnt work, think of the many top of the range cars that would be stolen during a game ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2010, 06:49:41 PM
The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
You'd be wrong. Parts of Donegal are a good 3 hours from Belfast.

As for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

And as for 'park and ride' - as i've said before, you can do that anywhere if people are willing to use it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 03, 2010, 07:04:27 PM
Quote
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself
It might make financial sense for the stadium to have the All Ireland final there, but it's not going to happen. The GAA have to be realistic about the potential for the stadium's use.

Quote
Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades
Are you familiar with Belfast at all. The Shankill is very close to the mixed city centre area. I don't know how many people would want to head there for a concert. Just because one area is close to another means nothing.
Not a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

Quote
Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.

It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.
I'd imagine Ulster rugby would rather relocate to Lansdowne Rd that Andersonstown Rd.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: mentor on November 03, 2010, 11:28:23 PM
Casement will be some stadium when a decision is taken to fonally revamp it. A perfect easily accessible venue for the Ulster final in future years. All nine county grounds in Ulster look great, I think Ulster may actually be the most advanced province in terms of ground development. We have the new Athletics Ground ready in early 2011 and work ongoing at Newry's Pairc Esler changing rooms which will be finished by xmas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 08:04:29 AM
Quote
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?


Yes there is. The GAA have another stadium in Dublin, its called Croke Park. They made it available to other users when needed when the FAI/IRFU made it known that they would be interested. They have since made no secret of the fact that it would be available if they needed it again, even though the Aviva is now complete.

Surely this is a ‘shred’ of evidence that the GAA would allow similar use of their stadium in Belfast?

Quote
Not a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

That’s not a fact, its your opinion

Quote
As for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

Where are your figures to back this up? I live in this city and I am the sort of person that goes to GAA games. I’d say there are far more GAA members within 30mins of Belfast than there are within 30mins of Clones
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sandy Hill on November 04, 2010, 03:41:59 PM
You have just bought a brand new BMW Z4 (dream on); would you park it in West Belfast while you went to a match or a concert?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on November 04, 2010, 04:09:44 PM
Quote
You have just bought a brand new BMW Z4 (dream on); would you park it in West Belfast while you went to a match or a concert?
No. I'd park it in one of the car parks on the Boucher road that are stewarded on match day, as it would be easier to get away.

However I did park my new car on the Falls last night for a few hours and when i came back it was still there! Not everyone in west Belfast is a car thief!
I live in Malone and my housemate had his wingmirrors kicked off last week - couldn't have been the local kids though, the westies must have walked over ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Franko on November 04, 2010, 05:17:58 PM
You have just bought a brand new BMW Z4 (dream on); would you park it in West Belfast while you went to a match or a concert?

Yep - ball of scrap.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
Ha ha reading most of these posts you would think everyone in west belfast was a hood. I never knew GAA supporters to be so snobish. Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra! ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 04, 2010, 06:07:12 PM
Quote
Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra!

Gaa supporters are even thinner on the ground in Cultra than West Belfast, even if your car is safer there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 06:46:20 PM
All joking aside if casement is developed it will hopefully awake the sleeping giant that is Antrim and get the locals behind the antrim football team - a lot easier to go to Casement for a GAA match than the round trip to parkhead every other week to watch Celtic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 04, 2010, 07:13:32 PM
Quote
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?
Yes there is. The GAA have another stadium in Dublin, its called Croke Park. They made it available to other users when needed when the FAI/IRFU made it known that they would be interested. They have since made no secret of the fact that it would be available if they needed it again, even though the Aviva is now complete.

Surely this is a ‘shred’ of evidence that the GAA would allow similar use of their stadium in Belfast?
I'm not sure if you're quoting me or not (hit the 'insert quote' link on the post you're quoting).
Croke Park may well allow Casement to be used for non-GAA events. But there's no evidence that any of the potential users would be interested. I can't see the IFA or Ulster Rugby being interested.

Quote
Not a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

That’s not a fact, its your opinion
And? What's your basis for saying they would use it? They haven't used it to date.
I don't think a promoter would risk losing a proportion of their customers when they can continue to use the King's Hall, Botanic Gardens, Ward Park, Giant's Park etc.

Quote
As for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

Where are your figures to back this up? I live in this city and I am the sort of person that goes to GAA games. I’d say there are far more GAA members within 30mins of Belfast than there are within 30mins of Clones
I'm basing it on the crowds i've seen at games in Casement and where they come from.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on November 05, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
Quote
Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra!

Gaa supporters are even thinner on the ground in Cultra than West Belfast, even if your car is safer there.
They would rather have an incinerator in Cultra!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on November 05, 2010, 10:05:58 AM
Quote
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?
Yes there is. The GAA have another stadium in Dublin, its called Croke Park. They made it available to other users when needed when the FAI/IRFU made it known that they would be interested. They have since made no secret of the fact that it would be available if they needed it again, even though the Aviva is now complete.

Surely this is a ‘shred’ of evidence that the GAA would allow similar use of their stadium in Belfast?
I'm not sure if you're quoting me or not (hit the 'insert quote' link on the post you're quoting).
Croke Park may well allow Casement to be used for non-GAA events. But there's no evidence that any of the potential users would be interested. I can't see the IFA or Ulster Rugby being interested.

Sorry i wasn't quoting you there, but

There were 2 questions in that statement;
1.   is there a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this
2.   Is there a shred of evidence that any of the users would want it?

I was answering the first bit.
At the moment its very unlikely that the Ulster Rugby or the IFA would be interested in using it, especially with their own developments in the pipeline, but 10-20 years from now you never know how things will have progressed here.
I do however think that concert promoters may be interested, depending on the atmosphere etc that could be created.


Quote
Not a hope concert promoters would use Casement.

That’s not a fact, its your opinion
And? What's your basis for saying they would use it? They haven't used it to date.
I don't think a promoter would risk losing a proportion of their customers when they can continue to use the King's Hall, Botanic Gardens, Ward Park, Giant's Park etc.

No, obviously they haven’t used it to date. But surely if the place is developed into a modem fit for purpose venue, as suggested by a previous poster, then surely it has the potential to host such events? The only argument against this is its location within Belfast. There are plenty of examples of other such venues on the outskirts of cities in an area that doesn’t have a good name. Drumcondra wouldn’t have the best name for itself.
Obviously many from the unionist community still wouldn’t be keen on going to a gig in west Belfast, and there are a number of alternative neutral sites available, but there is no need to just totally rule out the new casement as a potential venue.

Quote
As for the city where "hundreds of thousands of people live" - they may well do, but they're not the people who go to GAA games.

Where are your figures to back this up? I live in this city and I am the sort of person that goes to GAA games. I’d say there are far more GAA members within 30mins of Belfast than there are within 30mins of Clones
I'm basing it on the crowds i've seen at games in Casement and where they come from.
How do you know where they come from? Just because me, and thousands like me, were in Casement Park this summer with Tyrone jerseys on us, doesn’t mean we came up the M1 to watch the game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 03, 2010, 03:55:46 PM
This money could be used to build a stadium with a roof on it.

this would allieviate the need to postpone major games at this time of year, such as the ulster final (2 weeks in a row).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on December 03, 2010, 05:16:19 PM
The stadium needs a roof campaign starts here!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 04, 2010, 02:13:50 PM
This money could be used to build a stadium with a roof on it.

this would allieviate the need to postpone major games at this time of year, such as the ulster final (2 weeks in a row).
Agreed. c20,000 capacity with a roof would be a far better use of resources than another massive stadium that might be full once a year, whilst similar stadia lie empty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 04, 2010, 04:26:37 PM
This money could be used to build a stadium with a roof on it.

this would allieviate the need to postpone major games at this time of year, such as the ulster final (2 weeks in a row).
Agreed. c20,000 capacity with a roof would be a far better use of resources than another massive stadium that might be full once a year, whilst similar stadia lie empty.

Exactly. I would love to attend a gaa match within a stadium with a closed roof. Imagine the atmosphere at an ulster final etc.

perhaps a 25,000 stadium with a roof would be ideal. It may be an idea to have a section which can be easily converted to terracing, which would allow up to another 5-10k attend should the occasion arise.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 04, 2010, 04:50:11 PM
A roof would be expensive and hard to justify unless you are willing to allow other events there, including sports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 04, 2010, 04:51:43 PM
A roof would be expensive and hard to justify unless you are willing to allow other events there, including sports.

not really when the money is there to spend and there is a need for it in this country.

Also- why not have other events there? peter kay woud fill it surely :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 04, 2010, 05:13:11 PM
A roof would be expensive and hard to justify unless you are willing to allow other events there, including sports.
The assumption would be that you could build a smaller capacity venue with a roof for the same price as a 40,000 capacity without one.

I don't know why this would be harder to justify than the current proposals. In fact, given that a covered venue is something that we don't have anywhere else in the country, this should be much easier to justify.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on December 05, 2010, 11:32:56 AM
Roof?
do you not think undersoil heating would be cheaper.
Its an outdoor game, personally i would not be a fan of covered stadiums, weather conditions are part of the game imo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on December 05, 2010, 01:40:57 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 05, 2010, 02:20:00 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

the same thing that happens in rugby

the roof wouldnt have to be used in all conditions, plus it adds to the value of the stadium for venue hire etc.

if the moneys there to be spent, it may as well be spent a stadium which we could put to use as an association.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on December 05, 2010, 02:29:12 PM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on December 05, 2010, 08:20:16 PM
A GAA Stadium with a roof   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wait till 1st April and try again  ;)

If this is a serious suggestion then God help us all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on December 10, 2010, 10:22:14 AM
I am totally in support of Casement being redeveloped but a roof is a non-starter. The Millenium stadium is amazing but a GAA pitch is bigger and Im sure with a larger roof the costs will be exponential. The GAA sure cant even be bothered to place a standard roof on their modern stadia to cover the spectators ,(sports ground limerick for example) nevermind covering the whole playing surface as well.
If it was to happen the capacity would need to be on a power with croke park otherwise the roof would be too low and I would guess such a stadium would cost in todays money about a billion not 100 million rumoured for Casement so sorry lads forget it!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 10, 2010, 10:37:51 AM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.

Aye, but Graham Clarke hasn't.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on December 10, 2010, 11:35:56 AM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.

Aye, but Graham Clarke hasn't.

In future ulster club hurling finals, magic wouldn't have to shake the snow of it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 10, 2010, 11:50:08 AM
What happens when the ball hits the roof?  ;)

The roof will survive, Larry Reilly has retired.

Aye, but Graham Clarke hasn't.

In future ulster club hurling finals, magic wouldn't have to shake the snow of it

just as well big Magic is good at the snooker. He'd be able to work out the angle the ball will rebound off the roof from one of Graham's scuds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on December 10, 2010, 12:14:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


i am quite sure there have been a number of games played here over the years with the roof closed.  Decent shout of an idea but would have to be partially funded by opening the place up to other events
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on December 14, 2010, 10:17:51 AM
be careful what you wish for!!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/ (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/)

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 14, 2010, 07:28:17 PM
be careful what you wish for!!

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/ (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/article/25901/)
I spotted that. It had an 'inflatable' roof. Surely that could be a much more affordable option to a rigid structure?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 14, 2010, 07:34:13 PM
Quote
I spotted that. It had an 'inflatable' roof.

A roof is only effective if the shower aren't inside it, mostly likely acting as stewards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on December 15, 2010, 02:09:13 PM
Has funding for Casement now been approved following Sammy's budget speech?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Mhic Easmuint on December 15, 2010, 03:23:28 PM
It appears to be alright!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 15, 2010, 03:25:46 PM
Has funding for Casement now been approved following Sammy's budget speech?

He just said that Stadia Projects have got the go-ahead. No details.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 15, 2010, 05:44:19 PM
Hopefully this work will be started in the next 12 months!

would be great to see a bit of construction work in the city!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on December 15, 2010, 09:47:27 PM
http://www.antrimgaa.net/news/details/?id=2776

ULSTER COUNCIL GAA
Comhairle Uladh CLG

PRESS RELEASE

The Ulster Council GAA welcomes the draft budget statement made on Wednesday by the Minister for Finance and Personnel which includes a commitment by the Executive for a capital envelope for regional sports stadia development. This underlines the existing commitment made by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on the 8th April 2009 to meet the strategic needs of the three largest governing bodies of sport, namely Ulster GAA, IFA and Ulster Rugby.
Ulster GAA now looks forward to the conclusion of the draft budget consultation process and are hopeful of a positive response regarding regional stadia development funding so that Ulster GAA Stadium Project Board  can progress with its plans for the redevelopment of Casement Park Stadium in Belfast.

Ulster Council GAA aims to meet its strategic requirements first indentified in the GAA’s “Enhancing Community Identity Report” in 2002 by providing a stadium of 40,000 capacity  that will be  an all seated stadium.

The President of Ulster Council GAA, Aogan O Fearghail commenting on the budget announcement said:

“The Ulster Council is pleased that after several years of work by the Stadium Project Board led by both Tom Daly as Chairman and Danny Murphy as Provincial Director, we now have a reasonable level of commitment around the future funding for the Casement Park project due to the announcement made in yesterday’s draft budget statement.

The redevelopment of Casement Park will have major economic, regeneration and social benefits for the entire community. Sport makes a strong social and economic contribution to society in areas such as the promotion of tourism, health and wellbeing, community development, social capital and cohesion and contribute to good relations. This project is another example of the positive role that sport has to play in the wider community. It is envisaged that the overall project costs for the Casement Park redevelopment will be in the region of £100m with significant investment coming from both the GAA and Government. 

I am grateful to all of those who have made a contribution to this ongoing process and would highlight the continuing input from officials of both the Antrim County Committee GAA and the Central Council GAA who have been supporting the Ulster Council  in this project.

I recognise the work undertaken by government officials, bodies and departments in this process, namely OFMDFM (Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister) Strategic Investment Board, Department of Culture Arts and Leisure and Sport NI. I would also thank the many consultants and advisers who have provided support in this initial stage of the  process: Gilroy McMahon Architects (Des McMahon and Deirdre Lennon), Peter Quinn Consultancy Services (Barry McGurgan), Cunnane Stratton Reynolds (Eamonn Prenter) and Sammon Surveyors (Brian Conway).   

The Stadium Project Board  will now continue its planning and consultation work alongside the three stadium sub-groups namely: Finance and Business Planning subgroup, Planning, Design and Development sub-group and Community Relations and Public Relations sub-group” and we look forward to the completion of the budget consultation process and the approval of the Assembly’s budget 2011-2015 in February 2011”.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SLIGONIAN on December 16, 2010, 01:13:00 PM
Best of luck with this development, some dosh, great for GAA, and Ulster and Antrim and Belfast ecomony. Look forward to visiting it someday.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tbrick18 on December 20, 2010, 12:42:22 PM
What's the current capacity of Casement?

I'm in no way begrudging of it, in fact its good to see investment. The only issue I have is that of traffic. The area cant handle the traffic currently on the occassion of a big match. How will they cope with increased capacity?
there is also the risk that unless there is a near capacity crowd, the atmosphere is dull...
All that being said, I hope it all comes off I just hope there's a bit of forward planning for traffic control.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Slicker on December 21, 2010, 11:51:21 AM
Would be great to see this stadium get the go ahead and provide a different option for big games in the futre.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 12:13:59 PM
Would under pitch heating be including? After the delayed games this winter, I'm sure no-one would want a repeat of this in the future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: StGallsGAA on December 21, 2010, 12:53:20 PM
Under-soil heating doesn't remove the risk factor for travelling fans which should always be the primary concern, as opposed to the playing surface.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 01:00:32 PM
Under-soil heating doesn't remove the risk factor for travelling fans which should always be the primary concern, as opposed to the playing surface.

You can't please all of the people, all of the time. Anyway, it would be more dangerous driving to Clones on them wee back roads.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:16:53 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 03:35:57 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:19:42 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Donnellys Hollow on December 21, 2010, 04:25:42 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes

It was only installed for the rugby and soccer. There's really no need for it anymore.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:27:12 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes

It was only installed for the rugby and soccer. There's really no need for it anymore.

Still there and can become useful in the future, if heavy snow becomes a regular occurance in the future.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:30:36 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:32:55 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
How much would it cost?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
How much would it cost?

I don't know. Do you?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
How much would it cost?

I don't know. Do you?
No. Although i'd assume it isn't cheap. If it was, i'd imagine it would be fairly common.

I'm also working on the basis that:
CP didn't feel it necessary to install it during their upgrade;
It was installed to facilitate other sports; and
Our games are played primarily in the summer.

Added to that, games have been called off due to road conditions even where the pitch might be playable. I've seen this on the news for English soccer games too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 21, 2010, 04:44:10 PM
Clones, Casement and all of the other big grounds primarily cater for 'summer' games. This weather will impact on very few games in the GAA calendar.

Ulster Club Finals.
Nobody is going to design 40,000 capacity stadium plans around club finals.

No, but they could put under pitch heating for them.

Croke Park wasn't a 82,000 stadia designed around club finals, but club finals are played there. Plus the Ulster Club Final was almost taken there, if it was called off again.
Does Croker have under pitch heating?

Yes
But not necessarily clear roads.

Also, would the cost of under-soil heating for a few club finals (not even necessarily every year) be justified? Especially if there's a back-up for extremely exceptional circumstances?

I think it would be justified, as part of a new build. Not to dig up a pitch to install it. So it Casement is going for a full redevelopment, then I would say yes. I'd much rather have that, than a roof, which some people are advocating.
The roof would keep out snow and rain, the latter being fairly common throughout the year. A roof would also be much more of a benefit for non-sports use of a stadium that under-soil heating.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on December 21, 2010, 04:45:13 PM
We'll agree to disagree then  :P

We'd be here all day if we kept this up  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on December 21, 2010, 05:54:14 PM
I think a roof should be brought into deep consideration during the planning stage of the redevelopment of Casement park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 21, 2010, 08:59:59 PM
Personally think its crazy spending so much on 1 stadium.

A central Ulster stadium with several training fields would be better built about south tyrone. In that location it would be on several key transport networks and equa distance to the majority of Ulster counties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on December 21, 2010, 09:47:03 PM
The format of the stadium will fall into place. The crux of any redevelopment is going to revolve around access and parking. Easier said than done in residential Andytown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 21, 2010, 10:39:30 PM
The argument that the Ulster final should not be taken out of Clones is an absolute nonsense. Why a stadium was ever built in Clones was crazy anyway... a clear case of gepgraphical inertia in that there was a big hill in Clones, it could hold a big crowd back in the stone ages... so lets retain it and put our stadium there. Regardless of the fact that Clones town is a dump, poor road access, a nightmare to get out of (especially when you loose!) and is so bad that it puts people off going!

I'm a Donegal man living in Sligo and I would travel to Casement any day of the week over Clones. There is also the benefit of making a weekend of it in Belfast for a big game. The best thing about Clones is the "Slán abhaile" sign.

I look forward to the re-development of Casement, especially if it means I never have to go to Clones again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 22, 2010, 12:02:21 AM
The argument that the Ulster final should not be taken out of Clones is an absolute nonsense. Why a stadium was ever built in Clones was crazy anyway... a clear case of gepgraphical inertia in that there was a big hill in Clones, it could hold a big crowd back in the stone ages... so lets retain it and put our stadium there. Regardless of the fact that Clones town is a dump, poor road access, a nightmare to get out of (especially when you loose!) and is so bad that it puts people off going!

I'm a Donegal man living in Sligo and I would travel to Casement any day of the week over Clones. There is also the benefit of making a weekend of it in Belfast for a big game. The best thing about Clones is the "Slán abhaile" sign.

I look forward to the re-development of Casement, especially if it means I never have to go to Clones again.

are you serious??? clones is a great town for the ulster final. its that sh1t ordinarily that when the ulster final arrives it is transformed into a great landscape of colour and banter.
an ulster final in belfast would get lost. somehting that happened when the ulster final sold out to croke park a number of years back. Theres no craic outside casement at all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Simon Says on December 22, 2010, 02:16:32 PM
It will be a great arena for GAA, plus alot of people from non-gaa backgrounds will want to go watch games in such a stadium on there doorsteps, it will be great for west belfast also, after coming out of 30 years of conflict also, something that they can be proud of.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 22, 2010, 02:28:30 PM
I take what you are saying Donelli but one big hill up to a major stadium is mental. Yeah the colour is great but the town is an absolute kip and the Ulster final brightens it up but a new stadium at Casement would add to the attraction of the GAA. Major finals should be in major cities... not some hole in the middle of no-where.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: donelli on December 23, 2010, 09:26:45 AM
I take what you are saying Donelli but one big hill up to a major stadium is mental. Yeah the colour is great but the town is an absolute kip and the Ulster final brightens it up but a new stadium at Casement would add to the attraction of the GAA. Major finals should be in major cities... not some hole in the middle of no-where.

so you think the munster hurling finals should be played in Cork instead of Thurles??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:46:17 AM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 23, 2010, 11:30:55 AM
Thurles is great, party atmosphere with plenty of bars and able to hold big crowds.

I must say we had a ball at the Ulster final (In Clones) when Antrim got there. I suppose the novelty factor played in and we didn't really care about the 3 hour journey home and delays on the way down (plenty of drink) but if i were from a county that had to go there regularly say like Tyrone Armagh (and they are close) I'd be pissed off.

As for Casement getting the new build, sure its money given by the Gov and it will hardly go anywhere else. I'm sure if Clones ask the Irish goverment nicely, they will get the same :P
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 12:35:51 PM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
What has the 1980s got to do with it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2010, 01:10:31 PM
Quote
What has the 1980s got to do with it?

That's when the GAA started in Donegal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Simon Says on December 23, 2010, 01:51:58 PM
kids within the city will see the huge stadium, it will drive kids into GAA clubs as a childs mindset of " i would love to play there one day", instead of the attractions of local soccer clubs. it can only boost the influx in the amount of kids from grass roots level to stick with the GAA sports.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 02:43:27 PM
kids within the city will see the huge stadium, it will drive kids into GAA clubs as a childs mindset of " i would love to play there one day", instead of the attractions of local soccer clubs. it can only boost the influx in the amount of kids from grass roots level to stick with the GAA sports.
Has this happened in inner-city Dublin?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 05:46:09 PM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
What has the 1980s got to do with it?

I didnt realise I would have to explain what the 1980's had to do with Clones... and you a Monaghan man Maguire!
The decision to re-develop Clones was taken in the 1980's.. at a time when the border areas were economically deprived. I'm not saying much has changed in that resepct but Clones was a poor choice even back then. Casement was always a better long term option.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on December 23, 2010, 08:15:26 PM
Have you been in Thurles? I have. Big wide main street with cafes, bars and restaurants. Not a big town but works well for big match day. Nothing like Clones.
ps: Thurles is where the GAA was founded... so no matter what the town it should have a stadium. Clones never should have developed a stadium. I understand the 1980's midset of supporting deprived border areas and not having to pay match tax to Maggie Thatcher at the time but it was a very poor location choice.
What has the 1980s got to do with it?

I didnt realise I would have to explain what the 1980's had to do with Clones... and you a Monaghan man Maguire!
The decision to re-develop Clones was taken in the 1980's.. at a time when the border areas were economically deprived. I'm not saying much has changed in that resepct but Clones was a poor choice even back then. Casement was always a better long term option.
Clones had been the venue for the Ulster Final well before the most recent development. There was no increase in capacity, just upgrading the standard, the same as with every county ground in the province.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 23, 2010, 10:43:44 PM

Clones had been the venue for the Ulster Final well before the most recent development. There was no increase in capacity, just upgrading the standard, the same as with every county ground in the province.
[/quote]

Nobody said that Clones wasnt the Ulster final venue previous to the redevelopment! My point is that it was selcted for substantial upgrade as Ulsters premier ground, which imo was totally wrong. As for it being upgraded the same as every other county, absolute nonsense!!! Clones was hand picked as a provincial ground and received funding to reflect this. County grounds are developed by the counties with support funding with much less development than Clones received. For me, Clones is the best ground in Ulster by far. It's the town and the infrastructure around it that lets it down. It should never have been selected for upgrade over Casement or Omagh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 23, 2010, 11:08:38 PM
Clones wasn't chosen over other grounds in the 1980s, it was already long the major venue in Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on December 24, 2010, 12:18:17 PM
Clones wasn't chosen over other grounds in the 1980s, it was already long the major venue in Ulster.

Yes it was! Yes it was the existing major venue however when funding became available major debate ensued as to how best it could be spent. Clones was selected and status quo maintained. The debate at the time was that Casement was a better long term option to develop and the only reason Clones was in the mix was because it was the existing provincial ground, not because it was the best choice! Tax was also a consideration at the time.
There was a serious lack of forsight at that time in my opinion and Clones was developed over other grounds based on very small minded rationale.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on December 24, 2010, 12:37:27 PM
I hadn't thought about it until another poster mentioned it, but the atmosphere at Clones is something else. I'm not sure whether I would prefer the convenience of Casement to the craic in Clones.
Title: Taobh Amuigh
Post by: drici on December 30, 2010, 12:48:53 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 09, 2011, 07:06:12 PM
A roof on Casement could have saved a few games today. Double-header + indoor stadium + well marketed = 15-20,000 at a McKenna Cup tie.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Big Puff on March 10, 2011, 07:15:43 PM
Details of Government funding for the upgrading of Northern Ireland's three main sporting venues has been released.

The Irish Football Association receives £25m to upgrade Windsor Park plus £36m to improve some other stadia and set up a new national training centre.

The Ulster Council of the GAA will get a similar sum to help make Casement Park a 40,000 all-seated stadium.


There will be £14.7m to enable Ulster Rugby to build new and upgrade existing stands at Ravenhill.

It is believed Ulster have been allocated almost £15m which will be released in stages and go towards building a new stand at the Cregagh Road end and a replacement of the old stand.

NI sports minister Nelson McCausland said the development would benefit health, tourism, business and the overall Northern Ireland economy.

He said it would help attract major sporting events to Northern Ireland.

President of the Irish FA, Jim Shaw, welcomed the cash injection.

"It is a privilege to be part of a legacy that will remain in Northern Ireland for years to come."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on March 10, 2011, 07:20:15 PM
McCausland has done a good deal for soccer. Originally they were only getting half of what the GAA were due. Not sure how he can justify them getting money for other grounds as well. Especially rough on Rugby - Ulster gets similar crowds at Ravenhill to Norn Iron at Windsor.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on March 10, 2011, 10:33:49 PM
wtf is this extra £36 million to soccer about?
How can their pathetic LOI attendances justify this amount?
Yet again the leeches get preferential treatment well out of proportion to the crowds they attract.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on March 10, 2011, 10:43:34 PM
Great to see Casement being transformed into an all-seater 40,000 seater. Agree with sentiments above, the rugby seem to have lost out slightly compared to soccer. The 3 men and their dog will now have nice facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on March 11, 2011, 11:34:54 AM
Talking to a few rugby lads in work today and they are raging about this. How that bigot McCausland can justify giving that much to soccer is beyond even the most cynical especially when rugby gets so little and other sports get nothing (athletics were looking a million to upgrade tracks at the Mary Peters). The worst about it as we all know, given the past form of the IFA, a fair chunk of that money will be pissed up a wall somewhere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DoireGael on March 11, 2011, 11:45:54 AM
Talking to a few rugby lads in work today and they are raging about this. How that bigot McCausland can justify giving that much to soccer is beyond even the most cynical especially when rugby gets so little and other sports get nothing (athletics were looking a million to upgrade tracks at the Mary Peters). The worst about it as we all know, given the past form of the IFA, a fair chunk of that money will be pissed up a wall somewhere.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 15, 2011, 02:23:26 PM
What would you expect from this small minded bigot, ah well, it will enable the little Englanders who follow Norn Iron to belt out the Billy Boys, GSTQ and Rule Britannia in comfort.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: amallon on March 15, 2011, 07:30:01 PM
Has work started in Casement? 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 15, 2011, 08:06:04 PM
Has work started in Casement?
:D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2011, 08:10:15 PM
Aye the brickies haven't stopped!! Seen a bulldozer heading towards Casement but it ended up in Tyrone at a service station ATM!!

Big Jim has been buying pints all week in the lounge and all the spectators on Sunday were given a tenner each for their troubles!!

Casement won't get anything done for a while yet, Think we will make a bid for the stand ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on March 15, 2011, 10:11:01 PM
Has work started in Casement?

Nobody works in Andytown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 15, 2011, 10:16:46 PM
Pay them to toss the place-dump of a groud with no atmosphere stuck in the middle a GAA free zone
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2011, 10:25:29 PM
Pay them to toss the place-dump of a groud with no atmosphere stuck in the middle a GAA free zone

Yeah, How many Gaa clubs in Omagh?? in a two mile radius of Casement there are around 15 Gaa clubs minimum. as for the pitch, its a far better surface than Omagh's, atmosphere is made when there is a crowd.

 Last time Tyrone played at Casement there was plenty of atmosphere.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 15, 2011, 10:53:24 PM
Will wait for the census returns for a more accurate quota on the respective populations of Omagh and Belfast- however Omagh, with a population of c.20000 (4 football clubs) equates more than favourably with Belfast and its population of c.250000 and its 15 clubs- Quick question-'when was the last time Tyrone togged out in the Casement changing rooms?'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: omagh_gael on March 15, 2011, 11:13:30 PM
Who is the fourth football club in Omagh? Omagh St Endas, Drumragh, Killyclogher (although wouldn't like to be branded as being in Omagh!)...?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rocky Mc Guigan on March 16, 2011, 08:34:41 AM
Who is the fourth football club in Omagh? Omagh St Endas, Drumragh, Killyclogher (although wouldn't like to be branded as being in Omagh!)...?
The Tatts also come into the jurisdiction of Omagh town stroke Drumragh Parish
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 16, 2011, 09:45:31 AM
Will wait for the census returns for a more accurate quota on the respective populations of Omagh and Belfast- however Omagh, with a population of c.20000 (4 football clubs) equates more than favourably with Belfast and its population of c.250000 and its 15 clubs- Quick question-'when was the last time Tyrone togged out in the Casement changing rooms?'
There aren't 250000 people living within 2 miles of Casement.

Anyway, I'm sure they are paying people to "toss the place" before they build the new stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on March 16, 2011, 11:36:49 PM
Is there a time scale on the Casement development?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 16, 2011, 11:39:24 PM
Is there a time scale on the Casement development?
There won't be a ball kicked in the new Casement for at least 5 years, IMO.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on March 16, 2011, 11:44:51 PM
According to a few rugby mates of mine the boyos down at ravenhill are looking to get one of their new stands started almost immediately and id say the soccer ones would want to get started soon enough before they realise they have made a mistake in giving the useless shar so much so I don't see why it should take the gaa so long unless the are struggling to get the extra 40 mill euro to finish it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 16, 2011, 11:47:08 PM
Casement will do well to get planning permission by this time 2 years. By all accounts, there will be some fight.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on March 16, 2011, 11:55:16 PM
Surely if the government is giving out 60mill something like planning permission would already be sorted, sounds very amaturish.

Would the planning permission not come from a sub government department which would have been discussed at some stage before it was agreed that the money would go to casement and not another venue in the north. Would look very embarrassing if after giving out the cash it is blocked due to planning issues
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 16, 2011, 11:57:03 PM
Surely if the government is giving out 60mill something like planning permission would already be sorted, sounds very amaturish.

Would the planning permission not come from a sub government department which would have been discussed at some stage before it was agreed that the money would go to casement and not another venue in the north. Would look very embarrassing if after giving out the cash it is blocked due to planning issues
They got the money. That is all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on March 16, 2011, 11:59:52 PM
Will they rename the ground?

After all, Sir Roger seemed a bit dodgy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 17, 2011, 12:06:51 AM
Páirc Yash.

Yash won the half time draw around the time that the money was given.

Seems fair enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on March 17, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
So they were given the cash without any guarantee that that could do anything with it. Sounds a bit ridiculous but wouldnt surprise me when the folks on the hill are involved.

If it were to be blocked it would be quite embarrassing for all concerned and would make the IFA look professional which is a feat in itself
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: angermanagement on March 17, 2011, 07:11:49 AM
With Casement been located in a residential area it will be years before any major work begins I'm sure the local residents will be putting up a hell of a fight.

The planning process is very expensive and to go ahead with it before the funding was granted wouldn't have been an option for the Ulster GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on March 17, 2011, 08:56:44 AM
Will wait for the census returns for a more accurate quota on the respective populations of Omagh and Belfast- however Omagh, with a population of c.20000 (4 football clubs) equates more than favourably with Belfast and its population of c.250000 and its 15 clubs- Quick question-'when was the last time Tyrone togged out in the Casement changing rooms?'

so in Andytown there are 250000 people living there?? as for all the clubs in Belfast there are 22 in total. 60% percent of people living in Belfast would certainly not have any interest in playing Gaelic games then you have the minorities and the various sports on offer in a City.

My club has a membership of nearly  400 people. We have 3 senior teams playing football and two senior hurling teams. two division teams also. Followed by all of our juveniles who play both, we aren't alone as all the clubs in Belfast play both codes. Unlike like your single code clubs in Omagh. Gaelic games is alive and well in Belfast.

As for your daft question about the changing rooms, WTF!!! Omagh's changing rooms are not great either but Antrim will respect any county ground and not be snobs about it.

Back on the subject of the planning permission I also believe it will be really difficult because of the residents, and the disruption of the road/area due to the building of the stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on March 17, 2011, 12:12:18 PM
So they were given the cash without any guarantee that that could do anything with it. Sounds a bit ridiculous but wouldnt surprise me when the folks on the hill are involved.

If it were to be blocked it would be quite embarrassing for all concerned and would make the IFA look professional which is a feat in itself
Surely Windsor Park will be facing the same problems, being so close to a residential area. IMO planning won't be as big an issue as some are making out.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 22, 2011, 11:07:07 AM
Anyone know when we get to see some plans? Does anybody know when work will start or finish. The same goes for the new Pairc ui chaoimh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on March 22, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
There are grounds sitting aound the province with planning just waiting on the funding ::) That Nelson bastid cost us our development and we'd everything in place >:(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on March 22, 2011, 04:00:56 PM
There are grounds sitting aound the province with planning just waiting on the funding ::) That Nelson bastid cost us our development and we'd everything in place >:(
What is the situation now? Other phases not going ahead for forseeable future? It would sicken you the amount being spent on Windsor. And Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on March 22, 2011, 04:44:14 PM
I can't see the long term benefits of the 40k all seater stadium in belfast purely for GAA and I doubt very much in even medium term it will be a multi-sport stadium.

While its not GAA money largely building it, it will be GAA money maintaining it and this won't be cheap. It may be full once a year, possibly used two other times for Ulster Championship games with any meaningful attendence ie more than 15k.

Unless they planning a whole load of concerts (unrealistic bar 1/2 a year), it'll be a great white elephant and shows the GAA have learned nothing for its past mistakes in terms of Stadium. I suspect that once again the ego's within the GAA are coming to the fore and the Ulster boys want their own Croke Park to show off.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2011, 09:13:00 AM

Bingo

I think a 40000 seater stadium in Belfast has potential if marketed well and opened to other sports in the future (doubt that will happen soon but you never know). I agree with you though that the GAA doesnt seem to have thought things out properly. Their other big project is a 60000 seater stadium in Cork (why so big)
The GAA should have maybe one high quality 35000-40000 stadium in each province and should have maybe consulted the IRFU years ago about joint ventures. The remaining stadiums should have smaller capacities but better facilities. Instead the GAA wants to builld 32 white elephants around the country with huge capacities but terrible facilities.
The perfect example of the mismanagement is the dump that is the ''new'' gaelic grounds in Limerick. Why build a modern stadium in the West of Ireland with no roof! Secondly Limerick isnt a big place so why didnt the IRFU and GAA agree to build one 35000 high quality stadium that would have been used regularly and been easily maintained (Thomond park is good but to me feels unfinished).
l
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on March 23, 2011, 10:05:26 AM
I'd totally agree with that. Belfast could do with a multi-sport stadium but there is probably too much politics (within and outside the GAA) that would prevent this happening.

The US model for stadia seems ideal, where its often 3rd parties who build and own the stadia with a view to securing tenants on a rolling basis. In a country this size it probably won't work but definately joint venture stadium would be ideal for championship matches.

The GAA has loads of grounds round the place but none that can be considered stadium with suitable match day facilities - its a case of get in to game and get out. (Cue the we want to go and watch a game, not be entertained/pampered).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: fitzroyalty on March 23, 2011, 04:06:11 PM
I would have thought a joint GAA/IRFU stadium would have been a good concept especially for Belfast. Would mean more Ireland rugby matches could be held in the north while Casement and Ravenhill could remain in place for smaller games and possibly undergo some upgrades to bring them up to scratch. I agree with what Bingo says and even from a non-GAA point of view it is a huge waste of money. I hope it gets shelved.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on March 24, 2011, 02:21:48 PM
I would have thought a joint GAA/IRFU stadium would have been a good concept especially for Belfast. Would mean more Ireland rugby matches could be held in the north while Casement and Ravenhill could remain in place for smaller games and possibly undergo some upgrades to bring them up to scratch. I agree with what Bingo says and even from a non-GAA point of view it is a huge waste of money. I hope it gets shelved.
I would agree with you on an IRFU/GAA venture. I suspect that all Ulster Finals will now go to Casement and probably some AI qualifiers as well. One thing you could not do is let the England in Disguise supporters any where near it, given their appalling behaviour in the Aviva.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 24, 2011, 08:35:23 PM
The US model for stadia seems ideal, where its often 3rd parties who build and own the stadia with a view to securing tenants on a rolling basis.

That could be controversial. The way it actually works in the US is the local authorities (i.e. local taxpayers) subsidise the building of stadiums which are owned by professional clubs or subsidiaries of them. Professional sports clubs (or 'franchises' as they're known) have been known to play different cities off against each other in search of a better deal. The San Francisco 49ers are actually looking at moving out of San Francisco at the minute and building a new stadium in Santa Clara near where I work.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 03, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 04, 2011, 12:37:15 PM
Ohh forgot to mention...they might change the name to Danny Casement Park ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on April 04, 2011, 01:44:31 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

murphy is a down man
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 04, 2011, 02:25:58 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

murphy is a down man

He may well be as i wasn't aware where he's from but he's going to make sure he goes out with a bang and his legacy will live on with Casement Park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 04, 2011, 06:55:11 PM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

I know Danny McKenna. I'm pretty sure the Ulster Council works like any other GAA committee I've ever served on and a vote was taken. One person can't make that kind of decision in the GAA, that's not how the association works.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: winsamsoon on April 04, 2011, 11:59:59 PM
well i am no genius when it comes to figures but surely it would make more sense to use the 63 million to fully develope 4 grounds instead of one. Having four grounds in different parts of Ulster would surely be a better venture for the social structures of them areas. The problem with these decisions is that the ordinary GAA man/woman doesn't know the debates that go on during such meetings. Maybe there are channels were you can gain access to minutes etc????? I would like to know why my own club cannot receive the Million it needs to finish the ground, at the minute we are left with a brand new pitch and 3g facility with no stand. It's a disgrace but typical of the management structures within the GAA. We still haven't seen the money generated from the rugby internationals that was to be filtered down through the clubs. talk of centres of excellence have all seemed to be blowing white smoke up our asses
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rosnarun on April 05, 2011, 12:05:25 AM
the lesson to be learned from dublin is don't let the egg chasers any where near the field you might as well let a herd of donkey  graze the pitch between matches looking at Lansdown road the few Fai matches  it looks like a cabbage patch
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on April 05, 2011, 09:16:02 AM
I just heard during the week some news regarding the funding and i don't think too much about Danny Murphy now. From the £63 million given from Sport NI Danny Murphy has decided to use all of it for Casement, i know this is something you all knew but what i just found out was there was only 3 other GAA clubs/grounds looking funding under the Stadia Safety and £3 million would have well covered the other 3 three grounds which would have left £60 million for Casement and everyone else would have happy.

The IFA had no problem dividing their £60 odd million about. £30 million to Windsor and the rest divided out to the rest of the soccer clubs in N Ireland. I know the IRFU are keeping all theirs for Ravenhill but they only got about £18 million. If the IFA can share it why can D Murphy not do the same, the 3 GAA grounds get brought up to 2nd county ground status and still leaves Casement with £60 million, and to make matters worse he's looking more money so he can build a hotel at the ground too. Who the f**k would want to stay in a hotel in West Belfast.

Ohh did i mention Casement do not even have fecking planning permission and the other 3 grounds are sitting waiting and ready...

Don't worry Danny you'll leave your legacy with Casement when you retire and you'll be remembered as an Antrim legend ;)

I know Danny McKenna. I'm pretty sure the Ulster Council works like any other GAA committee I've ever served on and a vote was taken. One person can't make that kind of decision in the GAA, that's not how the association works.
Do you know Danny Murphy though?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on April 05, 2011, 01:37:16 PM
well i am no genius when it comes to figures but surely it would make more sense to use the 63 million to fully develope 4 grounds instead of one. Having four grounds in different parts of Ulster would surely be a better venture for the social structures of them areas. The problem with these decisions is that the ordinary GAA man/woman doesn't know the debates that go on during such meetings. Maybe there are channels were you can gain access to minutes etc????? I would like to know why my own club cannot receive the Million it needs to finish the ground, at the minute we are left with a brand new pitch and 3g facility with no stand. It's a disgrace but typical of the management structures within the GAA. We still haven't seen the money generated from the rugby internationals that was to be filtered down through the clubs. talk of centres of excellence have all seemed to be blowing white smoke up our asses

Not trying to stir the pot here (being from Antrim) but why should any club feel they are owed £1 million to finish any works these days?  Was this money promised or was the work started when grants were more readily accessible?  Corrigan Pk (St. John's) in Belfast used to be the county second ground until the stand was condemned and surely they would feel they should received some of this money to make improvements if that were the case?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on April 05, 2011, 02:30:09 PM
Aontroim the way it worked this time was that the Ulster Council nominated 3 grounds in Ulster to be graded as 2nd county ground status and that their grounds are in need of repair and therefore qualified for a Stadia Safety grant within Sport NI, Davitt Park in Lurgan was one of these grounds nominated. Davitt Park had met the criteria and had been passed to the next stage (whatever process Sport NI use), a business case and the cash were the only two matters left as full planning permission was already in place.

Now whilst waiting on this grant to come through £500,000 was spent on the ground giving it a new pitch and county standard floodlighting put in place along with a small 3G pitch, now this development was based on the stadia safety grant and things were done differently like no dugouts (subs were to go into new stand) there was not path around the pitch as it would only have been dug up again for the stands, there was the fencing put in at 900mm high to suit stands (this would have been 1200mm high). There are more but I'm only giving an example of what happened.

Now, what i was saying was if there was already £500,000 spent on it and £1,000,000 from the £63 million allocated to Ulster Council would have made it into a first class mini stadium capable of holding McKenna cup matches, Leagues games and College football then it's a no brainer
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on April 05, 2011, 06:35:03 PM
There are already enough big and good enough stadiums in Ulster. How many more while elephants do we need?


The money would be much better spent investing in improving club facilities around the province.


Look - how many times a year is Casement used (to anything like capacity)? Contrast that with the amount of times clubs are in dire straits for a lack of pitches for their numerous teams.


Time to strengthen the foundations instead of working on the penthouse suite of the ivory towers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on April 05, 2011, 07:01:47 PM
What club in Antrim do you think will get the couple of million for an upgrade to host the county games whilst Sir Roger is being done up?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on April 05, 2011, 08:16:50 PM
What club in Antrim do you think will get the couple of million for an upgrade to host the county games whilst Sir Roger is being done up?

none
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on May 15, 2011, 02:05:12 PM
Have any plans or computer assisted drawings of the proposed new stadium emerged yet
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on May 26, 2011, 03:44:11 PM
No sign of plans for this yet? has anyone been able to get the images that were in the IN a while back?

I see Ulster Rugby have applied for planning for the upgrades to Ravenhill;

here is what the new Ravenhill is going to look like

http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116763&ext=PDF
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116764&ext=PDF

Plan of the stadium
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116749&ext=PDF

18,000 but quite a lot of standing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 08, 2011, 11:58:58 AM
Anybody got any news, any plans? At this rate it will ready in 40 years time. The same for parc ui chaoimh. Why the silence?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on July 08, 2011, 12:25:58 PM
UTV did a piece on falling attendance at the Ulster Championship. They said that the new Casement Park will have open air Pop concerts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 08, 2011, 12:53:22 PM
Quote
They said that the new Casement Park will have open air Pop concerts.

Getting a major gig for Casement might help open things up. Perhaps the likes of U2 would oblige.

Some sort of management structure for the stadium is needed to remove it slightly from GAA politics and some of the Westie carry on that it has been associated with.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on July 08, 2011, 01:44:13 PM
No sign of plans for this yet? has anyone been able to get the images that were in the IN a while back?

I see Ulster Rugby have applied for planning for the upgrades to Ravenhill;

here is what the new Ravenhill is going to look like

http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116763&ext=PDF
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116764&ext=PDF

Plan of the stadium
http://epicdocs.planningni.gov.uk/ViewDocument.aspx?uri=116749&ext=PDF

18,000 but quite a lot of standing.

Are they going to name it "Meccano Stadium"?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on September 24, 2011, 01:32:29 PM
Any initial plans of the new look casement available?
Title: Am
Post by: drici on September 26, 2011, 11:05:53 AM
http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Am
Post by: Maguire01 on September 26, 2011, 11:39:28 PM
http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/ (http://www.antrimgaa.net/guestbook/)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Another one:
Quote
Name : Philip          26 September 2011
Was yesterday the last match at Casement?


No.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2011, 11:42:04 PM
We play the Armagh Champions (Cross ;)) This Halloween, could be scary ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 26, 2011, 11:44:45 PM
It was Halloween last year too. It wasn't scary.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 27, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
The plans are definitely being kept close to the chest.  Am I right that one end of the stadium is shaped like an upright banana?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2011, 09:51:56 PM
Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on November 05, 2011, 01:36:40 PM
Does it have planning permission?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: optimus cheese on November 07, 2011, 11:15:05 AM
Still won't be able to get into the control tower I imagine :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: muppet on November 07, 2011, 07:04:51 PM
Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong

That is hilarious, any clips?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on November 17, 2011, 11:37:06 AM
UTV's Ken Reid has just said on Twitter, that Martin McGuinness says the redevelopment of Casement Park will start 2013.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on December 08, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Quote
Will this have implications immediately for the ulster final?

Not if Derry are playing!

More seriously, I expect some limited work could restore a large part of this capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on December 08, 2011, 02:27:57 PM
That’s an interesting one!
Any idea what sections of the ground are having capacity reduced? Up to 15000 must mean all stands affected?

Could it to be to do with access to the stands rather than the condition of the actual stands? E.g. the majority of people leaving the Pat McGrane & the hill come out at the one point which could be a problem in an emergency. I’d think the actual stands, seating/ barriers on terracing etc are fine
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on December 08, 2011, 04:03:27 PM
That’s an interesting one!
Any idea what sections of the ground are having capacity reduced? Up to 15000 must mean all stands affected?

Could it to be to do with access to the stands rather than the condition of the actual stands? E.g. the majority of people leaving the Pat McGrane & the hill come out at the one point which could be a problem in an emergency. I’d think the actual stands, seating/ barriers on terracing etc are fine
I would say you are bang on the money. Some sections of Casement stand were closed because there are only 2 exits. Apparently the exits on the side of the stand don't count.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 25, 2012, 09:30:15 AM
I see Ravenhill got the go ahead yesterday, 3 new stands to be built, capacity up from ~12K to ~18K.

I note also that terracing will be maintained on at least 3 sides of the (Ravenhill) ground.


What is the latest on casement? Are the top-brass still insisting on an all-seater?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: whitegoodman on January 25, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on January 25, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?

Rugby only needed the £15m, soccer wanted £30m odd and the GAA said they needed £90m or so. Rugby got what they wanted, the GAA got most of what they wanted and soccer got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Evil Genius on January 25, 2012, 03:05:41 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?

Rugby only needed the £15m, soccer wanted £30m odd and the GAA said they needed £90m or so. Rugby got what they wanted, the GAA got most of what they wanted and soccer got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer.
Not true, indeed very misleading (as I'm sure was your intention).

The IFA applied for £25m (approx) for the re-building of Windsor to the latest FIFA minimum requirements, however this was only part of an overall plan for development of the game in NI. For unlike the GAA, who appear to be putting all their eggs in the one (Casement) basket, they plan to spend the remaining £30m-odd on developing other facilities throughout NI, including a major part on a new National Training/Development Centre (Blanchflower Park).

And as for your allegation that they "got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer", are you seriously implying that if the GAA hadn't been getting so much, that the IFA would have been happy to forego an extra £30m which was available to them from the Stormont sports budget?  ::)

The simple fact is that following the collapse of the Maze project, Stormont had a sum in excess of £100m in its sports stadia budget which they would have lost entirely, unless they came up with an alternative scheme. The then Sports Minister, Nelson McCausland managed to get this ring-fenced, and after extensive consultation and negotiation, came up with a £50m/£50m/£15m (approx) split between the 3 sports. This was effectively based on a number of factors, primarily need and participation/size.

Indeed, had he divided the total on crude sectarian* lines, as you suggest, this would almost certainly have been challenged as unlawful and an abuse of his powers.

Instead, it was broadly accepted as fair by all parties, including specifically by his Sinn Fein successor, Caral Ni Chuillin, who was quoted earlier this week at Ravenhill as saying:
"Having secured up to £110m earlier in the year for the development of regional stadiums for rugby, gaelic games and football, I am delighted that a point has been reached which will enable us to begin to see progress on the ground."


* - How curious the implication in your post, to which you did not object, that GAA is for "Fenians" (only)... :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on January 25, 2012, 08:46:05 PM

Jeez EG - arm yourself with a bit of common sense. Its so far off the mark to say the GAA put all of their eggs in one basket while the IFA are somehow have greater vision to develop other stadia. The reality is that the GAA already have 9 other stadia around Ulster with capacities varying from 12 - 30k.

This money is funding that was not anticipated and given the choice, the GAA would have renovated the stand at casement and invested the rest in other programs, including reinvestment in club initiatives and the Belfast Rising project. The government directive was that the total amount was available but only as a whole for one project - it could not be spread around. Given those parameters, of course they would empty the government offer into Casement (even though its not needed).

Odd that the IFA were allowed to divvy the money up on various projects when noone else was. I guess they have to find a way to throw Linfield a few quid somehow...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 25, 2012, 09:57:30 PM
Have we answered the initial question from all that shite talk then?

when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on January 25, 2012, 10:11:45 PM
Have we answered the initial question from all that shite talk then?

when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

f**k that. Lets have more whataboutery over a few of the queens pennies. I hear the IFA/OO/legions of doom are planning to build a big fenian death ray with the money and lure taigs to it with a trail of rosary beads and laundered diesel.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on January 25, 2012, 11:29:31 PM
when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

... and if it is still planned as an all-seater, who in the ulster council do you register your displeasure with?


They can have 3 stands with seats if they want, but please give us the choice by having at least the one standing area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on January 25, 2012, 11:39:09 PM
The reality is that the GAA already have 9 other stadia around Ulster with capacities varying from 12 - 30k.

8 other ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on January 25, 2012, 11:41:29 PM
when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

... and if it is still planned as an all-seater, who in the ulster council do you register your displeasure with?


They can have 3 stands with seats if they want, but please give us the choice by having at least the one standing area.

The Ulster GAA were in England this week, inspecting the stadiums they have other there. Perhaps there's an announcement coming soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rasharkin Gael on January 26, 2012, 10:58:40 AM
I know the money has to be used for a stadium development so is ring fenced for Casement, but the priority in Antrim must be to finish the Dunsilly training complex. If it were not for the generousity of the Creggan club letting the county teams use their facilities , Antrim footballers would have very little options for modern training facilities.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on January 26, 2012, 01:20:29 PM
when will Casement get the go ahead and where are the plans for it?

... and if it is still planned as an all-seater, who in the ulster council do you register your displeasure with?


They can have 3 stands with seats if they want, but please give us the choice by having at least the one standing area.

The Ulster GAA were in England this week, inspecting the stadiums they have other there. Perhaps there's an announcement coming soon.

The Casement Etihad Sports Direct Emirates Arena??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Don Johnson on January 26, 2012, 06:19:12 PM
I know the money has to be used for a stadium development so is ring fenced for Casement, but the priority in Antrim must be to finish the Dunsilly training complex. If it were not for the generousity of the Creggan club letting the county teams use their facilities , Antrim footballers would have very little options for modern training facilities.

Were they not using the Dub?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on January 27, 2012, 01:16:23 PM
I know the money has to be used for a stadium development so is ring fenced for Casement, but the priority in Antrim must be to finish the Dunsilly training complex. If it were not for the generousity of the Creggan club letting the county teams use their facilities , Antrim footballers would have very little options for modern training facilities.

I'd imagine the County are being quite generous in return to Creggan for the usage  :D 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on January 27, 2012, 06:40:22 PM
Maybe this has been answered before but why is rugby getting 15mil and the soccer and gaelic are getting 60 odd mil?

It may only take this to finish Ravenhill but could they not use the money elsewhere to develop other facilities throughout the provence?

Rugby only needed the £15m, soccer wanted £30m odd and the GAA said they needed £90m or so. Rugby got what they wanted, the GAA got most of what they wanted and soccer got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer.
Not true, indeed very misleading (as I'm sure was your intention).

The IFA applied for £25m (approx) for the re-building of Windsor to the latest FIFA minimum requirements, however this was only part of an overall plan for development of the game in NI. For unlike the GAA, who appear to be putting all their eggs in the one (Casement) basket, they plan to spend the remaining £30m-odd on developing other facilities throughout NI, including a major part on a new National Training/Development Centre (Blanchflower Park).

And as for your allegation that they "got more than they wanted because the Fenians couldn't be seen to be getting more than soccer", are you seriously implying that if the GAA hadn't been getting so much, that the IFA would have been happy to forego an extra £30m which was available to them from the Stormont sports budget?  ::)

The simple fact is that following the collapse of the Maze project, Stormont had a sum in excess of £100m in its sports stadia budget which they would have lost entirely, unless they came up with an alternative scheme. The then Sports Minister, Nelson McCausland managed to get this ring-fenced, and after extensive consultation and negotiation, came up with a £50m/£50m/£15m (approx) split between the 3 sports. This was effectively based on a number of factors, primarily need and participation/size.

Indeed, had he divided the total on crude sectarian* lines, as you suggest, this would almost certainly have been challenged as unlawful and an abuse of his powers.

Instead, it was broadly accepted as fair by all parties, including specifically by his Sinn Fein successor, Caral Ni Chuillin, who was quoted earlier this week at Ravenhill as saying:
"Having secured up to £110m earlier in the year for the development of regional stadiums for rugby, gaelic games and football, I am delighted that a point has been reached which will enable us to begin to see progress on the ground."


* - How curious the implication in your post, to which you did not object, that GAA is for "Fenians" (only)... :o
I was under the impression that initially, the money had to be spent on one project. Otherwise the GAA might well have decided to upgrade a number of venues. It appeared very much like the IFA didn't need as much as the GAA (for Windsor), so McCausland found another way to 'even things up'.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on February 08, 2012, 09:46:15 AM
Lots of outline detail of new stadium just listed at WWW.publictenders.net/tender/134687


Outline of accommodation.
The following schedule is an approximate guide only and is subject to change.
A stadium capacity of 40 000 is envisaged for this new all-seated stadium,
 Capacity allocation is broken down as follows:

 Standard seats 37 120,
 Premium seats 2 000,
 Corporate seats 580,
 VIP seats 300,
 Total 40 000,
 Press 80.
 Special needs and disabled seating provision to be in accordance with Green Guide Stadium or other regional/national guidelines within Europe,
 Acoustically capable of hosting concerts and other potential non-GAA events,
 A pitch to GAA dimensions and GAA performance criteria. Pitch size to be a minimum of 141m x 80m excluding a 5m run-off,
 A stadium that is pitch maintenance sensitive,
 Stadium lighting to allow high definition media,
 Corporate level area including dining,
 Adequate car and coach parking,
 Adequate storage and maintenance equipment areas,
 Turnstiles and enhanced access areas to the stadium,
 Internal access areas including lift areas,
 Media Centre,
 Medical and safety facilities,
 Crowd Control Centre,
 Four large dressing rooms to County Squad size (45 persons) and 2 medium size dressing rooms (30 persons),
 An adequate conference facility to accommodate a number of medium to large conference events,
 Space to be allocated for potential development of future commercial units.

Stadium access.
 Pitch access is required for players,
 Maintenance access is required for vehicles.

Concourses.
 Concourses to be designed to accommodate the needs of user capacity and provide for other functional uses such as conferences, meeting rooms and community rooms.

Player accommodation.
 4 no. County squad size player changing suites accommodating 45 players with each suite including a changing room, with separate toilet and shower areas,
 2 no. medium size player changing suites accommodating 30 players with each suite including a changing room, with separate toilets and shower areas,
 4 no. warm up room 96 m2,
 4 no. physio room 15 m2,
 4 no. medical room 10 m2,
 2 no. drug testing room 10 m2,
 Referee changing rooms – 2no @ 50 m2 each,
 Player press conference area – 20 m2,
 Players lounge – 80 m2.

Patron accommodation.
 Patron toilets,
 All spectator accommodation to be served by toilet facilities designed to address peak demand and limit congestion,
 Concession units – all spectator accommodation to be served by concession units designed to meet patron peak demand. Approx area 1 070 m2,
 First aid room 10 m2 at each patron level.

Staff facilities.
 Stewards, operational staff briefing and hospitality area – 300 m2,
 Premium level catering staff changing/ rest and toilet facilities – 60 m2,
 Concession staff changing/rest and toilet facilities – 80 m2.

Main production kitchen.
 Main production kitchen – 550 m2,
 Satellite kitchens- 2no at 250 m2.

Event management suite.
 Event management room – 30 m2,
 Police room – 15 m2,
 PA room – 15 m2,
 WC / Tea station – 10 m2,
 Meeting room – 30 m2.

Press media.
 80 press media comprising 48 writing press and 32 broadcasting press,
 Writing press room – 80 m2,
 Press media hospitality – 95 m2,
 Radio station – 40 m2,
 TV station – 40 m2.

Security and ticketing.
 Security room – 50 m2,
 Ticket office – 100 m2.

Plant rooms.
 Boiler room,
 Water storage,
 Transformer /switch / pump / generator,
 Pitch maintenance,
 Refuse compactor/waste management general plant rooms.

Parking.
 Car parking for 240 cars,
 2no outside broadcasting units,
 6no player coaches.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2012, 11:01:12 AM
The proposed timescale, we're looking at Championship games being played in 2016/2017??

The following dates are indicative only and are subject to change:

July 2012 appointment of the economic operator.

July 2012 beginning of enabling works design and procurement process.

September 2012 commence preparation of procurement documents for IST appointment.

October 2012 issue enabling ITT documents.

February 2013 completion of design to RIBA stage D/E.

February 2013 planning application submitted.

February 2013 issue IST ITT documents.

July 2013 appointment of IST.

Autumn 2013 planning permission received (subject to planning process).

December 2013 beginning of construction period.

September 2015 completion of construction period.

September 2016 completion of defects period.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 08, 2012, 06:40:07 PM
The proposed timescale, we're looking at Championship games being played in 2016/2017??
And that's probably ambitious enough. A lot probably hinges on the planning permission date. And that tender link reads like it hasn't been designed - I thought that had been done? Where did all the 'artist impressions' come from that were doing the rounds a few years ago?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Magicsponge on February 09, 2012, 03:14:13 PM
From Hoganstand - http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=161750

Casement Park revamp put on hold

Work on the redevelopment of Casement Park will begin a year later than expected.

The Irish News reports that the redevelopment of the Belfast venue won't start until the end of 2013, meaning it will be available to host National League and championship games next year. The Ulster Council plans to demolish the existing stadium and construct a new 40,000 capacity all-seater stadium at a cost of £76.4 million. The British Government will contribute £64.1 million towards the cost of the redevelopment.

When completed, the new Casement Park will replace St. Tiernach's Park in Clones as the new headquarters of Ulster GAA. The invitation for tenders reveals that the deadline for design is February 2013, and that the planning application will be submitted in the same month.

The construction period is expected to last 21 months.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 17, 2012, 01:56:05 AM
Some major news due on this project on Friday. The Irish News back page folks is a must for you all tomorrow!
Was backed by all 9 counties at Ulster Council meeting tonight.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 17, 2012, 04:01:20 PM
This was on the BBC this morning. All the interviewer wanted to know was if Casement would facilitate soccer or rugby. The answer was no.

I don't recall Windsor Park or Ravenhill getting the same questions.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 04:13:59 PM
Quote
I don't recall Windsor Park or Ravenhill getting the same questions.

The difference is that Windsor Park or Ravenhill will be incorporating an inability to be used for GAA in their physical design.

I think though that some consideration of a broader use for this stadium might be considered. It will be large and not much used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 04:19:51 PM
There's serious danger of it becoming a white elephant. The capacity is probably about 5-10,000 too high for football in Ulster. It's also difficult to see what concerts they could attract that would fill the place, and that's before considering that some promoters might be apprehensive about booking it at all, given its location.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 17, 2012, 05:45:19 PM
I disagree, properly priced tickets for the Ulster Final and double headers will attract 40,000. Also AI Qtr Finals could be held here.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 05:50:10 PM

All Ireland Quarter Finals
Ulster Finals
International Rules Matches
Big Championship Matches

All would attract 40,000 to a modern, family friendly all seater stadium.  Build it and they will come.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: haranguerer on February 17, 2012, 05:52:20 PM
There's serious danger of it becoming a white elephant. The capacity is probably about 5-10,000 too high for football in Ulster. It's also difficult to see what concerts they could attract that would fill the place, and that's before considering that some promoters might be apprehensive about booking it at all, given its location.

Lets be honest, we dont need half the stadiums we do have. The majority of them are only full once every few years when theres an attractive home first round draw
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 06:28:50 PM
Quote
All Ireland Quarter Finals

Belfast is not well situated for such games. Fine if it is some combination of Down/Derry/Tyrone/Armagh nut not much use if a team from another province is involved.

Quote
Ulster Finals

This would be the main application. Was the Ulster final full this year?

Quote
International Rules Matches

Once every 3 years or even less frequently?

Quote
Big Championship Matches

There aren't so many of those. Armagh v Down last year was nowhere near full,  and Armagh v Tyrone didn't need tickets either. Of course if the Armagh and Tyrone rivalry had been in its prime then perhaps there would be more, but this was an typical period.

What was the biggest crowd in the last 20 years at an Antrim game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 17, 2012, 07:10:32 PM
Would be great to see a revived railway cup game at this stadium when completed.

Anyone hear the rumour that the ulster gaa are thinking of selling the naming rights of the stadium for a fixed income stream?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 17, 2012, 08:56:58 PM
A very modern 25k stadium would be great. 40k too big unless it had been a shared stadium. Will lack atmosphere unless at least 3/4 full. Antrim national league games will look silly in this size of stadium. And truthfully I can't see anything more than 1 or 2 big ulster games per year.  Sure at the moment the big games aren't hitting 20k. I hope it works out but my fear is it will become a financial millstone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on February 17, 2012, 09:10:33 PM
It won't be a financial millstone, the bloody thing is already paid for 8)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: trileacman on February 17, 2012, 10:06:17 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


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Not our finest stand.


Compared to what the egg chasers put up down the road:

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Half the size but twice the stadium. Thomond is a stadia nearly always full and this enhances the atmosphere and image when recorded on tv. Just because the GAA build a stadium that 50,000 people can go to, doesn't mean 50,000 people will.

Build it and they will come is bullshit. If it were the Gaelic Grounds would not currently be the white elephant it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 17, 2012, 10:11:31 PM
It won't be a financial millstone, the bloody thing is already paid for 8)

Will it be free upkeep all year too?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:18:22 PM
It won't be a financial millstone, the bloody thing is already paid for 8)

Will it be free upkeep all year too?
Precisely. The GAA is great at throwing money at things to build them. Then they sit there and rot. Croke Park is the exception.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Sportacus on February 17, 2012, 10:23:51 PM
Feckitt, I'm nearly sure Aoghan Farrell said on radio ulster this morning that plenty (if not all) of the money still had to be raised - like tens of millions. and running costs won't be sneezed at either.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 17, 2012, 10:27:17 PM
Would be great if they put a roof on the stadium. Would be a real jewel in the gaa crown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:29:40 PM
All Ireland Quarter Finals
Ulster Finals
International Rules Matches
Big Championship Matches

All would attract 40,000 to a modern, family friendly all seater stadium.  Build it and they will come.
All very optimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?

All Ireland Quarter Finals depend on the teams playing, as has already been said.

International Rules hits Ireland once every 3 years(?) One match is in Croker and the other tends to tour the country. So if Ulster/Casement got a game every third tour, that's roughly one game in ten years.

You've mentioned Ulster Finals and Quarter Finals already. What other big Championship games are there?

I don't believe that this level of use would support an investment this size in the real world.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
Would be great if they put a roof on the stadium. Would be a real jewel in the gaa crown.
A 15-20,000 capacity stadium with a roof would be a much more sensible use of this money. Something that we don't already have and something that would be properly used.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 10:34:39 PM
Half the size but twice the stadium. Thomond is a stadia nearly always full and this enhances the atmosphere and image when recorded on tv. Just because the GAA build a stadium that 50,000 people can go to, doesn't mean 50,000 people will.

Build it and they will come is bullshit. If it were the Gaelic Grounds would not currently be the white elephant it is.
Agreed. Thomond looks great for its capacity. Why can't the GAA design small stadia like this? Why do we end up with stands like that in McHale park in this day and age?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:08:06 PM
I wonder if some of these projects are monuments to some GAA egos.....

Pairc Esler rebuilt to hold 20,000. Down might get that crowd once in 5 years (against Armagh or Tyrone) - how can that be justified?
I'm told it costs over 50 grand a year to run the place - certainly won't scratch that from gate mony even in a good year.
Healy Park has similar issues despite the massive Tyrone bandwagon of recent years.
New Morgan stadium is dinky and will be full to capacity probably once in the next 10 years.
Enniskillen & Ballybofey are just fields with some dodgy seating.
Casement 40,000 ? - the first Ulster final in it might fill it, after that once in a blue moon ....... maybe.
As for concerts or other events there - are you serious? Given the "issues" with its location the only chance is for a Wolfe Tones concert with Wolfe himself headlining it.
Now a neat fully covered ground holding about 15,000 - 20,000  for all Ulster championship games might make some sense - although hard to find the right location for 9 counties - somewhere around Dungannon maybe - too late now.

White elephant it most assuredly is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 17, 2012, 11:22:28 PM
Pairc Esler, Armagh and Omagh are one thing. Even a National League game might make use of more than half the capacity several times a year. These stadia have a single large stand which is well enough used at league games, McKenna cup games, county finals and the like. The rest of the ground is terracing, relatively cheaply provided, Morgan has a small roof over some of this. Casement Nua will have seats all around, mostly covered I expect, so the whole stadium will be like the stand in Pairc Esler.  An expensive pigeon roost mostly.

If Casement could be built with a roof, perhaps an inflatable affair, it would be great for all manners of concerts and the like and perhaps something could be done for other sporting brethren.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
Armaghniac

"and perhaps something could be done for other sporting brethren"

Life will certainly be upside down before that happens.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 17, 2012, 11:31:53 PM
A monumental waste of money. Can't believe this shit is proceeding. 20k tops might be viable but I would guess it will be at capacity a handful of times in 10 years.

I wonder will the stewards let all the McCooeys through the main gate in the new place?!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:35:24 PM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1, 20 from the train halt, 20 on bus or taxi from city centre. What's the issue with location?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 17, 2012, 11:36:35 PM
A monumental waste of money. Can't believe this shit is proceeding. 20k tops might be viable but I would guess it will be at capacity a handful of times in 10 years.

I wonder will the stewards let all the McCooeys through the main gate in the new place?!

As Leo has said above I think some officials egos are getting the better of them. Nothing a Gaa official likes more than a bit of back slapping and a photo opportunity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 17, 2012, 11:42:50 PM
A monumental waste of money. Can't believe this shit is proceeding. 20k tops might be viable but I would guess it will be at capacity a handful of times in 10 years.

I wonder will the stewards let all the McCooeys through the main gate in the new place?!

Croker only needs 25k or 35k to break even so I'd guess this would only need about 7-10k so big events subsidise the smaller. Couple of rugby lads in work were asking me earlier what the chances would be for getting for their big games and five or six years down the road I don't think there would be a problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 17, 2012, 11:46:23 PM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1,

Where do you park to make this walk?

20 from the train halt,

What, from Balmoral?? - half hour plus

20 on bus or taxi from city centre.

Will the black taxis let the buses run on match day??
 
What's the issue with location?

Now I haven't started on lack of a decent place to eat or drink anywhere near the place..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1,

Where do you park to make this walk?

20 from the train halt,

What, from Balmoral?? - half hour plus

20 on bus or taxi from city centre.

Will the black taxis let the buses run on match day??
 
What's the issue with location?

Now I haven't started on lack of a decent place to eat or drink anywhere near the place..

1. You get off a bus or park in one of the shopping centres or that big field on Boucher where they have the fairs.
2. I walk it most Sunday mornings and can do it in 20. Still not a fraction of distance of Connolly to Croker.
3. There's more than one route to Andytown Rd from city centre, but on match days I would anticipate park-and-ride from Sprusefield and city centre. Black taxi to cover pub trade on the Falls.
4. See above.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 12:03:37 AM
I've never found parking or access to/from a problem.

I would worry about the financial viability. Increased TV coverage, increased ticket prices and less dough flying about might mean they'll do well to make a profit in any given year - unless Antrim become a force themselves.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:07:34 AM
All ery ptimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?


Not too many neutrals would consider battling their way to Clones to watch an Ulster final. Shit roads to a ground in the middle of nowhere which takes a whole day to get to and return wouldn't be a problem with Casement, particularly for families.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 12:11:15 AM
All ery ptimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?


Not too many neutrals would consider battling their way to Clones to watch an Ulster final. Shit roads to a ground in the middle of nowhere which takes a whole day to get to and return wouldn't be a problem with Casement, particularly for families.

Clones is another ground I never found a problem with.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:14:17 AM
But you wouldn't take your family for a big game unless your county was playing.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 12:16:55 AM
I'd never take my family to a game unless one of our counties were playing but I know what you're saying. If I was that way inclined, yes I would. Always parked well, had plenty of time for a bottle of Rose and corned beef ciabatta and an enjoyable experience.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:53:28 AM
Given the "issues" with its location

10 minutes walk from the M1, 20 from the train halt, 20 on bus or taxi from city centre. What's the issue with location?
You could make similar arguments for accessibility to the Lower Newtownards Road, or the Shore Road. Doesn't mean there's not an issue with location.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:57:39 AM
Croker only needs 25k or 35k to break even so I'd guess this would only need about 7-10k so big events subsidise the smaller.
The only problem is, Croker has plenty of the bigger events. It has a number of guaranteed sell-outs or 80% capacity events every year. Two All-Irelands, Leinster Final, a few Dublin games, AI Semi-Finals and a few big concerts. Casement won't. It is quite possible that, like the Gaelic Grounds, it will go for years at a time without being full.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 11:59:26 AM
All ery ptimistic. Bar the Ulster Finals that were in Croke Park, there has never been a problem getting tickets. For plenty of years, Clones was a few thousand under capacity - around 30-33,000. Last year was well under capacity, was it not?


Not too many neutrals would consider battling their way to Clones to watch an Ulster final. Shit roads to a ground in the middle of nowhere which takes a whole day to get to and return wouldn't be a problem with Casement, particularly for families.
Where are these neutrals coming from?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:46:03 PM
You could make similar arguments for accessibility to the Lower Newtownards Road, or the Shore Road. Doesn't mean there's not an issue with location.

I didn't say there wasn't an issue with location, I asked what they were.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:50:32 PM
The only problem is, Croker has plenty of the bigger events. It has a number of guaranteed sell-outs or 80% capacity events every year. Two All-Irelands, Leinster Final, a few Dublin games, AI Semi-Finals and a few big concerts. Casement won't. It is quite possible that, like the Gaelic Grounds, it will go for years at a time without being full.

Bigger events i.e. > 10k subsides the smaller, there doesn't have to be a guaranteed sell-out to make it potentially viable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 12:52:10 PM
Where are these neutrals coming from?

There are approximately one million people within an hours drive of Casement Park, so take you pick: Newry, Dungannon, Ballymena, Newcastle, Craigavon and I dunno, Belfast maybe...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 18, 2012, 01:18:18 PM
Regardless of the other issues, it is gonna be weird sitting in a 40,000 stadium with barely 1,000 people at an Antrim National League game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 18, 2012, 01:20:39 PM
Regardless of the other issues, it is gonna be weird sitting in a 40,000 stadium with barely 1,000 people at an Antrim National League game.

I didn't find it strange sitting in an 82,500 stadia, with approx. 500 people in it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 01:52:31 PM
You could make similar arguments for accessibility to the Lower Newtownards Road, or the Shore Road. Doesn't mean there's not an issue with location.

I didn't say there wasn't an issue with location, I asked what they were.
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 18, 2012, 01:53:22 PM

I didn't find it strange sitting in an 82,500 stadia, with approx. 500 people in it.

Bilocation?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
The only problem is, Croker has plenty of the bigger events. It has a number of guaranteed sell-outs or 80% capacity events every year. Two All-Irelands, Leinster Final, a few Dublin games, AI Semi-Finals and a few big concerts. Casement won't. It is quite possible that, like the Gaelic Grounds, it will go for years at a time without being full.

Bigger events i.e. > 10k subsides the smaller, there doesn't have to be a guaranteed sell-out to make it potentially viable.
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 18, 2012, 02:05:08 PM
Where are these neutrals coming from?

There are approximately one million people within an hours drive of Casement Park, so take you pick: Newry, Dungannon, Ballymena, Newcastle, Craigavon and I dunno, Belfast maybe...
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:34:25 AM
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.

Well Windsor wouldn't put me off as a concert venue and if some of the OWC posters are to be believed, I'm the ultimate Fenian bigot, so I don't see why a venue a few hundred meters from the M1 would deter even the most hardened unionist.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:35:41 AM
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.

Well Windsor wouldn't put me off as a concert venue and if some of the OWC posters are to be believed, I'm the ultimate Fenian bigot, so I don't see why a venue a few hundred meters from the M1 would deter even the most hardened unionist.

But it will so why pretend otherwise?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?

No idea, but I was thinking Antrim games would be going to Dunsilly or somewhere more suitable to the expected attendance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:42:36 AM
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?

No idea, but I was thinking Antrim games would be going to Dunsilly or somewhere more suitable to the expected attendance.

Why would they move about 12 games a season to Dunsilly when they need the smaller attendances to "break even" ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 12:50:12 AM
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.

A new modern stadium with all the facilities and conveniences? It's hard to say, but if you compare it to the new Croker, IMO it's likely to attract people from far and wide and I'd say across the "community". It's position next to the M1 is going to have everyone who travels that direction into the city curious at the very least. The existing Casement is a soulless concretion jungle which very rarely gets an attractive game and when it does it's stewarded by parochial Antrim officials. The new Casement would have to be run on a more professional stadium management organisation so the current abuses don't continue. Again, Croke Park was the same before redevelopment and I remember well jumping turnstiles, climbing the wall or just giving a fiver to get in through the exit gate.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 12:56:09 AM
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.

A new modern stadium with all the facilities and conveniences? It's hard to say, but if you compare it to the new Croker, IMO it's likely to attract people from far and wide and I'd say across the "community". It's position next to the M1 is going to have everyone who travels that direction into the city curious at the very least. The existing Casement is a soulless concretion jungle which very rarely gets an attractive game and when it does it's stewarded by parochial Antrim officials. The new Casement would have to be run on a more professional stadium management organisation so the current abuses don't continue. Again, Croke Park was the same before redevelopment and I remember well jumping turnstiles, climbing the wall or just giving a fiver to get in through the exit gate.

Ulick, unfortunately the same Antrim officials will be there, that will be part of the deal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 19, 2012, 01:04:25 AM
Why would they move about 12 games a season to Dunsilly when they need the smaller attendances to "break even" ?

Not sure I get you Minder. Surely having regular small attendances would only increase the loss in revenue by having to open and staff the whole stadium - that's why Dublin play their league games in Parnell Park? Casement would only be open for smaller attendances if it was to be a showpiece game - MacRory, Herald, 1st round championship & qualifiers, hurling & camogie finals and maybe Sigerson when it's here. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2012, 01:08:29 AM
Quote
All Ireland Quarter Finals

Belfast is not well situated for such games. Fine if it is some combination of Down/Derry/Tyrone/Armagh nut not much use if a team from another province is involved.

Quote
Ulster Finals

This would be the main application. Was the Ulster final full this year?

Quote
International Rules Matches

Once every 3 years or even less frequently?

Quote
Big Championship Matches

There aren't so many of those. Armagh v Down last year was nowhere near full,  and Armagh v Tyrone didn't need tickets either. Of course if the Armagh and Tyrone rivalry had been in its prime then perhaps there would be more, but this was an typical period.

What was the biggest crowd in the last 20 years at an Antrim game?

Ulster Football final a few years ago was busy.

We are 1.30 Hours away from Dublin which as far as I'm aware is outside of Ulster

Dublin is a city, Belfast is also a city. Croke park is a busy housing area and so is Casement.

Motorway to Casement, granted parking is not as good as when you go to Croke, no wait it's the same!!

You have based your points/reasons because you'd rather have it somewhere else, maybe closer to you.

The money is being given to Casement can't do anything about it, outside of Croke Parks hands in fairness

By the way Ulick Dublin for the past 2 years have been playing league games at Croke to increase the gate!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 19, 2012, 01:10:12 AM
Why would they move about 12 games a season to Dunsilly when they need the smaller attendances to "break even" ?

Not sure I get you Minder. Surely having regular small attendances would only increase the loss in revenue by having to open and staff the whole stadium - that's why Dublin play their league games in Parnell Park? Casement would only be open for smaller attendances if it was to be a showpiece game - MacRory, Herald, 1st round championship & qualifiers, hurling & camogie finals and maybe Sigerson when it's here.

The whole stadium isn't staffed, as per any Antrim game, they only open the main stand usually, and not even the lower part, depending on the game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:16:19 AM
What proportion of those million people are even remotely likely to attend a game at Casement?
You mention Belfast - how many Belfast neutrals pop into games at Casement at the minute? People in Belfast don't even go to Antrim games.

A new modern stadium with all the facilities and conveniences? It's hard to say, but if you compare it to the new Croker, IMO it's likely to attract people from far and wide and I'd say across the "community". It's position next to the M1 is going to have everyone who travels that direction into the city curious at the very least. The existing Casement is a soulless concretion jungle which very rarely gets an attractive game and when it does it's stewarded by parochial Antrim officials. The new Casement would have to be run on a more professional stadium management organisation so the current abuses don't continue. Again, Croke Park was the same before redevelopment and I remember well jumping turnstiles, climbing the wall or just giving a fiver to get in through the exit gate.
What's the point in comparing it to the new Croker? It's not as if the old Croker was lying empty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:19:55 AM
I'd expect there to be a clear rationale behind the planned capacity. Why 40,000? What is this based on?
It doesn't have to be a sell-out every time. But what's the point in building something that will rarely reach capacity? And how many bigger events is there likely to be to subsidise the smaller ones (i.e. just about every Antrim game)?

No idea, but I was thinking Antrim games would be going to Dunsilly or somewhere more suitable to the expected attendance.
So there'll be absolutely no games then between August (best case scenario, getting a QF) and April (again, best case scenario - league finals)? That sounds viable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:23:30 AM
The location was mentioned in the context of attracting other events. It's fine for GAA events. The question is whether major concert promoters, for example, would be willing to book major artists at a venue that might be off-putting to a proportion of their potential audience. For the same reason, a redeveloped Windsor Park - just as accessible as Casement - is also unlikely to be attractive as a concert venue.

Well Windsor wouldn't put me off as a concert venue and if some of the OWC posters are to be believed, I'm the ultimate Fenian bigot, so I don't see why a venue a few hundred meters from the M1 would deter even the most hardened unionist.
I don't believe it wouldn't be an issue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 19, 2012, 01:33:25 AM
The money is being given to Casement can't do anything about it, outside of Croke Parks hands in fairness
I think it's accepted that they money is going to be used on Casement. It's just about how that money is best used. And whether a 40,000 capacity stadium is the answer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on February 19, 2012, 09:51:32 AM
Coming back to the tender specs, any idea why the stadium has to achieve a BREEAM rating of "excellent"?
Is it not an expensive eco-luxury, the cost of which would be better spent on fitting out the stadium to a higher standard?
My guess is that consultants, architects, etc all benefit from over-specifying to ramp up costs. They benefit, but we get little tangible benefit in return.

This link details the exponential increase in cost of aiming for a BREEAM of "excellent" in schools, rather than the perfectly acceptable, and easily achievable "very good" rating.

http://www.fgould.com/uk/projects/the-cost-of-breeam-compliance-in-schools/

It was found that in some circumstances the exponentially increasing costs of achieving the additional credits for an 'Excellent' rating can detract significantly from the project's affordability.

Score      BREEAM rating     Cost
40           Good             Little or no extra cost
55           Very Good          £19/m² additional cost
70+           Excellent           May cost an extra £60/m²

The study highlights that attempting to reach BREEAM Excellent can mean additional costs climb very steeply.
An 'Excellent' rating will be very hard to achieve without incorporating a suitable renewable energy solution, which will often be the only practicable method of achieving an ‘Excellent’ rating.

The ‘Excellent’ rating can only be achieved through the addition of a renewable energy option.

The renewable credits, associated with the installation of technologies such as ground source heat pumps (GSHP), biomass boilers, solar thermal hot water systems, photovoltaic ‘solar cells’ (PV) or small scale wind turbines are likely to be among the most expensive to attain.

However, current trends suggest that the inclusion of an on-site renewable energy source is likely to become a mandatory requirement for future projects.

On a positive note, the study demonstrates that achieving a ‘Very Good’ rating is not likely to create significant extra costs, provided that satisfaction of the BREEAM credits is given due consideration early in the design process.



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: aontroim on February 19, 2012, 01:01:46 PM
The place will be used just as much as it currently is, between Antrim club games, schools games, colleges, county games - regardless of crowd it will still be available for use as before as Antrim's main ground, and Casement social club will be re-housed in there somewhere too.  Even chat that Ulster Council are looking to move there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on February 20, 2012, 11:41:42 AM
Lads, thinking in the here and now you would only build a 25,000 capacity stadium. You are only going to get this money once. Therefore some future proofing is needed. if a fenian like me can go to Ravenhill to watch a concert, plenty of liberal unionists will attend Casement. If the GAA get the right pricing structure in place Ulster Finals will sell out. And if some of the Kerry posters have their way sure the Ulster Final could be renamed the All-Northern Ireland Final and it would then be the holy grali! :) Joking aside we would be lambasting the GAA in 10 years time when the economy has changed and a 25,000 stadium was too small. I say fair play to them for their ambition for our games and look forward to a Linfiled vs Cross Rangers Ulster Club Final in 2020. ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on April 06, 2012, 09:46:31 AM
Offaly man Noel Molloy to oversee development of Casement (and Ravenhill and Windsor).  Being from Birr at least he should know a bit about the needs of hurling fans!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/northern-ireland/17630485

Titanic man to oversee NI sport stadiums projects

The man who oversaw the construction of the new Titanic Belfast building has been headhunted to project manage the redevelopment of the three Northern Ireland sport stadiums.

Noel Molloy will become programme director for the Ravenhill, Casement Park and Windsor Park projects.

Government funding of £130m has been signed off on for the overall project.

Up until now, Sport Northern Ireland had sole responsibility for the joint stadiums project.

Sport Northern Ireland is the public body tasked with the development of sport in Northern Ireland and employs over 80 people.

Funded by the Departure of Culture, Arts and Leisure and the lottery, SportNI works in partnership with Stormont as its implementation arm.

Sports Minister Caral Ni Chuilin confirmed that she had appointed Mr Molloy "as the new programme director following his role in delivering Titanic Belfast".

In a statement, the Sports Minister added that it had "become clear in recent months that the original estimates in the timescales for construction of the stadiums will not be met.

Use accessible player and disable flyout menusNoel Molloy, who oversaw the construction of the new Titanic Belfast building, has been headhunted to project manage the redevelopment of the three Northern Ireland sport stadiums

"Earlier this week I held further discussions with Mr Molloy and senior figures from rugby, soccer and gaelic. This followed constructive meetings last week with the SportNI chair and board," continued the minister.

"Having considered the options I have decided to bring overall operational responsibility for delivery of the stadium programme into my department.

"The stadium development programme is at the top of my department's agenda.

"Officials are working on a structured handover process with SportNI.

"This will ensure that the department, in conjunction with all existing stakeholders, can effectively deliver the next phase of the stadium programme.

"I wish to thank SportNI for its work to date, and ongoing assistance and support during the next phase of this vital capital programme."

SportNI's chief executive Eamonn McCartan was unavailable for comment on Thursday.

Prior to working on Titanic Belfast, Molloy, a native of Birr in county Offaly, was project manager for the refurbishment and redevelopment of the premier Royal Oasis resort in the Bahamas.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wacko on September 03, 2012, 11:15:30 AM
Major announcement made on Casement Park project today. Design team has been appointed. Click on the link below for more info:

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2012/09/major-milestone-in-casement-project/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 03, 2012, 01:06:15 PM
40,000 all seater stadium. I reckon Casement will be hosting the Ulster finals from now on then. Sounds class.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 03, 2012, 05:57:30 PM
Design team was involved in the Mbombela Stadium in South Africa which has the same 3 tier layout as Croke Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 06:16:50 PM
Quote
I reckon Casement will be hosting the Ulster finals from now on then.

It will be good crack when they abolish the provincial championships and have a champions league type format, the Antrim home games will be rocking.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on September 03, 2012, 06:21:24 PM
Hopefully when the Stadium is finished it will boost attendances in the county, which have been flagging seriously. Would be nice to have a bumper crowd for a county final, or even a championship match for once. If they build up enough anticipation and knock the design out of the park it could be massive for the future of Antrim and Ulster GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on September 03, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
I doubt if the thousands are staying away from Antrim Club games because Casement isn't all seated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 09:02:49 PM
Sadly, the only way you'd get a big crowd of locals in Casement Park was to have a Celtic v Rangers game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on September 03, 2012, 09:10:09 PM
Sadly, the only way you'd get a big crowd of locals in Casement Park was to have a Celtic v Rangers game.

sad but true, you get more in the few pubs near Casement watching soccer than you would get inside it for an Antrim game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: saffron sam2 on September 03, 2012, 10:18:43 PM
40,000 all seater stadium. I reckon Casement will be hosting the Ulster finals from now on then. Sounds class.

As it should be. May Clones be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Hopefully when the Stadium is finished it will boost attendances in the county, which have been flagging seriously. Would be nice to have a bumper crowd for a county final, or even a championship match for once. If they build up enough anticipation and knock the design out of the park it could be massive for the future of Antrim and Ulster GAA.

A 40K stadium would be the worst place to play an Antrim county final. Take her up the country. Creggan, Loughgiel, Dunloy, Ballymena, Hannahstown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 03, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
Will Hardstation watch my motor for a fiver?

Is the new stadium ever expected to repay the outlay?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 03, 2012, 11:25:21 PM
Quote
Is the new stadium ever expected to repay the outlay?


The outlay to the GAA is negligible. The whole idea is to get Windsor Park done up, this is a just a side expense.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2012, 01:45:46 AM
The Irish Times - Tuesday, September 4, 2012
Planned £76m redevelopment of Casement Park moves closer

Down fans at a game against Antrim at Casement Park last year. When work is completed, the park will be the major stadium in Ulster. The plan is set to ensure big championship games will be held in Belfast rather than Clones. Photograph: Russell Pritchard/Presseye/Inpho

PLANS TO create a 40,000 all-seater GAA stadium at Casement Park in west Belfast have moved a “significant” step closer after international engineering consultancy firm Mott MacDonald Ltd was appointed to design it.

The £76.4 million (€96.4 million) project – with the Northern Executive providing the bulk of the funding – is due to be completed by 2015. Sinn Féin Minister for Sports Carál Ní Chuilín said at Casement Park yesterday that this was one of the most exciting GAA projects since the redevelopment of Croke Park.

When completed, Casement Park will be the major stadium in Ulster. The development is likely to ensure big provincial championship games including Ulster finals will be played in Belfast rather than Clones, Co Monaghan.

The GAA described the latest development in the plans to regenerate Casement as a “significant milestone”, adding: “It represents real and tangible progress on the long-held strategic ambition of the GAA at provincial and central level to provide a modern, fit-for-purpose and iconic stadium to meet the needs of the GAA in Ulster for the next half century.”

The Northern Executive is due to provide funding of £61.4 million through its sports department, with the GAA putting up funding of up to £15 million. When completed, Casement Park will be a 40,000 all-seater substantially covered stadium.

Mott MacDonald Ltd will lead a team of consultants, the integrated consultancy team (ICT), to take forward the design. It has been involved in the redesign of Wembley and the Emirates Stadium in London as well as the Olympic stadium there.

Previous plans to create a major stadium on the old Maze prison site near Lisburn to accommodate the needs of the GAA, the Irish Football Association and the Ulster Rugby Football Union did not materialise because of political disagreement.

It was decided that funding would be allocated to the different bodies, with the GAA receiving £61.4 million, the IFA £25.2 million and URFU £14.7 million.

“This represents a significant step in the progress of the stadium development programme. The upgrade of the GAA’s Casement Park, rugby’s Ravenhill and soccer’s Windsor Park have been a key priority for both me and my department,” said Ms Ní Chuilín.

“As well as the obvious benefits to sports fans that these stadiums bring, there are also the wider socio-economic benefits and employment opportunities being brought forward in these challenging economic times,” the Minister added.

GAA director general Pauric Duffy, welcoming the plan, said the association’s £15 million investment was a huge undertaking in the current economic climate.

“We invested something similar in Thurles as well, but that was in better times,” he said.

“We will have to borrow some of the money, but to be fair, no one said ‘No, we shouldn’t do this’.

“From management to central council, there was not one single dissenting voice . . . Everybody wants the GAA in Ulster to have the iconic stadium it deserves.”
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Syferus on September 04, 2012, 02:49:36 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 04, 2012, 04:02:40 AM
40,000 sounds like a decent capacity.  Any more than that and then you'd be getting into white elephant territory. For Ulster finals that are likely to draw bigger crowds (Tyrone v Armagh) you can always use Croke.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 04, 2012, 07:43:56 AM
No you just hang a sign up saying sold out
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on September 04, 2012, 08:55:53 AM
Sadly, the only way you'd get a big crowd of locals in Casement Park was to have a Celtic v Rangers game.

Celtic v Man Utd would probably draw a bigger crowd ;)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 04, 2012, 09:08:27 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

There won't be that much debt as £61.4m of it will be footed by the NI tax payer, but I agree with you point on the lack of atmosphere in a big stadium which will be almost empty most games.

Look out for Pairc ui Chaoimh, now there is a white elephant in a province with 3 30K plus stadiums in Limerick, Thurles and Killarney.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 04, 2012, 10:16:19 AM
I think Amagh would have been best suited location wise to host Ulster Finals. Its more mid Ulster, and isn't that far of a journey for most Ulster Counties. Belfast is still a 2 drive from Cavan, Counties like Tyrone, Down, Derry aren't far from Belfast, as they are Northern.

Clones was a bit of a spin from North Donegal, Derry etc, I think Armagh would have been better suited. I think the Capacitiy is only 25,00 in Armagh so thats proably why it wasn't chosen. But they coulld have chosen it as the County that would get the redeveloped, anways I'm looking forward to seeing Casement when its finished. It will be in the running to host a few games duing the RWC 2020 if Irelands gets the go ahead..



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 04, 2012, 11:12:44 AM
This stadium will be something of a white elephant. Unless Armagh, Tyrone or Down are going well that year and involved in the games you are never going to have a huge crowd there. It is poorly situated nationally for quarter finals or the like and a politics will prevent it ever being rented out to the IRFU.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 04, 2012, 01:20:06 PM
This stadium will be something of a white elephant. Unless Armagh, Tyrone or Down are going well that year and involved in the games you are never going to have a huge crowd there. It is poorly situated nationally for quarter finals or the like and a politics will prevent it ever being rented out to the IRFU.
What about Antrim and Derry you b**tard?!  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on September 04, 2012, 01:22:18 PM
This stadium will be something of a white elephant. Unless Armagh, Tyrone or Down are going well that year and involved in the games you are never going to have a huge crowd there. It is poorly situated nationally for quarter finals or the like and a politics will prevent it ever being rented out to the IRFU.
What about Antrim and Derry you b**tard?!  ;D

Let's not forget Donegal  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: maxpower on September 04, 2012, 02:08:09 PM
I doubt if the thousands are staying away from Antrim Club games because Casement isn't all seated.

Antrim club finals are as well attended as any other county I would imagine.  Could be 7,000 at some of the recent finals. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on September 04, 2012, 11:21:01 PM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 04, 2012, 11:56:26 PM
I thought the development of the Stadium which was being built on the Maze prison would have been Antrim's new Ground? There has been talk of that development since 2007.. what happened with that?(think alot were against it) It was suppose to be a ground share between GAA and the IFA. Would have saved if had gone through, not relying on the GAA for 17 million.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RealSpiritof98 on September 05, 2012, 04:00:09 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

you obviously dont know much about Armagh GAA, took them long enough to build the feckin thing but fairs fair they are using the shit out of it and proper order it is too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2012, 01:54:11 PM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

you obviously dont know much about Armagh GAA, took them long enough to build the feckin thing but fairs fair they are using the shit out of it and proper order it is too.
Parking is a bit of a nightmare in Armagh when there is a big match on. The CBS carpark was open and free of charge for the Middletown v Cuchullains match at the weekend and due to the small crowd all was good. However, they tend to charge £3 for the big football matches as far as I can see and consequently cars are abandoned everywhere from the City Hotel to Mullan's shop out the Keady Road. Who levies this charge?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 05, 2012, 04:12:18 PM
I think the Morgan Athletic grounds is an example of a ground put to good use. The stand is substantially full for county league games and county championship games. The rest of the ground is relatively inexpensive terracing which is needed for county league fixtures involving neighbours and championship games. Armagh proved a useful venue for the likes of Down v Monaghan or Tyrone. It is well down in the tables of unused GAA grounds.

As for parking, no place is going to have tens of thousands of parking spaces nearby not being used, waiting ready just for the odd game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on September 05, 2012, 04:23:53 PM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

I agree to a certain extent (minus the drama) with your sentiments. However, what is your solution?

Say Down draw Tyrone and Armagh draw Donegal next June and both want home matches. What would you do?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on September 05, 2012, 10:12:05 PM
I think the Morgan Athletic grounds is an example of a ground put to good use. The stand is substantially full for county league games and county championship games. The rest of the ground is relatively inexpensive terracing which is needed for county league fixtures involving neighbours and championship games. Armagh proved a useful venue for the likes of Down v Monaghan or Tyrone. It is well down in the tables of unused GAA grounds.

As for parking, no place is going to have tens of thousands of parking spaces nearby not being used, waiting ready just for the odd game.
The Maze could have.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: saffron sam2 on September 06, 2012, 11:55:22 AM
Another fecking white Elephant. Only a single game a year is likely to even trouble the 30k mark. The GAA has to learn that building out-sized stadiums only results in destroying the athmosphere of almost every game played there. And once something like this is built it becomes a clusterf**k to try and get as many games played in it as possible just to service the mountain of the debt it generated.

The only way this makes sense is for EVERY Ulster football championship game to be played in those bleak and unwelcoming soccer-city suburbs - otherwise you are looking at ONE game a year attracting 20,000 plus.
Meantime the money ploughed into the ego projects that are unused Pairc Esler, Morgan Armagh, Celtic Park (near Brandywell), Brutal Brewster, Kingspan's empty terraces and Ohmygod Omagh looks more ridiculous every day.
And not only are the Ulster GAA mandarins who plan and delievr these monsrtrous waste of resources smiling patronisingly at us from the pages of the Irish News - we are giving them bloody hero status. Daft beyond words.
In a few years the tumbleweed of disuse will fill the so-called stadia across the province.
Croke Park depends on Jedward, Notre Dame, the Euharistic Congess and the like to survive. Maybe we can get the latest  Carlisle Circus crazies to fill Casement for a few jousts.

I agree to a certain extent (minus the drama) with your sentiments. However, what is your solution?

Say Down draw Tyrone and Armagh draw Donegal next June and both want home matches. What would you do?

They play on different Sundays, as is currently the case.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 06, 2012, 11:58:46 AM
or draw lots.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 16, 2012, 09:22:05 AM
Some early plans have been drawn up as part of a community consultation process, however all I can see is a yello blob has anyone got any better photos or info or was even at  the leisure centre the other night to give us more details!

http://belfastmediagroup.com/new-casement-on-show/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on November 16, 2012, 11:41:22 AM
Restaurants in the complex, traffic exclusion zone on match days??  What will this mean for the burger vans on the Andytown Road!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2012, 09:02:37 PM
Quote
What will this mean for the burger vans on the Andytown Road!!

Burgers, baps, sausage rolls and the like will not be allowed as they are redolent of the old Casement. The new Central African Liberation stadium will feature Ciabatta, Lángos and Pongal, espresso coffee and a range of central European beers and Chilean wines.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:14:32 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.


The steep tier along andytown road will definitely lend to an improved atmosphere. My only concern again would be how often it is filled. I know this topic has been discussed at great length and we would be foolish to turn down money when it is available. Would liked to have seen something around the 25k mark with a roof but perhaps that is out of the question. Will the pitch remain in the same location or shift slightly towards the andytown road as the M1 end is quite tight. Big money was spent on a media area at this end. I wonder is it to remain or be relocated?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on November 19, 2012, 09:15:59 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.


The steep tier along andytown road will definitely lend to an improved atmosphere. My only concern again would be how often it is filled. I know this topic has been discussed at great length and we would be foolish to turn down money when it is available. Would liked to have seen something around the 25k mark with a roof but perhaps that is out of the question. Will the pitch remain in the same location or shift slightly towards the andytown road as the M1 end is quite tight. Big money was spent on a media area at this end. I wonder is it to remain or be relocated?

Everything is going  :(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:22:23 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.


The steep tier along andytown road will definitely lend to an improved atmosphere. My only concern again would be how often it is filled. I know this topic has been discussed at great length and we would be foolish to turn down money when it is available. Would liked to have seen something around the 25k mark with a roof but perhaps that is out of the question. Will the pitch remain in the same location or shift slightly towards the andytown road as the M1 end is quite tight. Big money was spent on a media area at this end. I wonder is it to remain or be relocated?

Everything is going  :(

I think the yellow is just the colour chosen by the design firms when doing the modelling. So would be shocked if it had yellow walls and roof ;) it looks like 2 tiers which is also surprising. I imagine the residents won't be happy about that. Is that green band in the 2nd image a corporate level??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:33:59 AM
I think the green area is corporate. The plans show the media area now to be up at the Andytown road end. Will they use all or part of the old one?, seems a waste seeing it was only constructed a few years back. I also remeber in the Irish news a couple of years ago talk about a footbridge over the motoway linking the satdium to musgrave parking to improve accessand paking etc but that has now been shelved. Posted a new thread on skyscrapercity on the subject feel free to add any other picures when they are released.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on November 19, 2012, 09:43:28 AM
As far as I am aware, the current control tower is for stadium security and not the media.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 19, 2012, 09:48:25 AM
sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.

Good stuff Johnny. Have you a link to any images of the redesign of Pairc Ui Chaoimh??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 10:46:44 AM
The redesign of Pairc ui Chaoimh has very few details as yet and evertime I read any plans they seem to change. Here are some early design pictures from a while pack but they dont really give anything away

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10604

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10603

The last I read the project will be completed by 2016. It will have a capacity of 45000 which will have 2 covered seated 2 tier stands. The ends will be left open and at the moment Im not sure if they will be seated or terraced. The project will cost 67 million euro which seems a lot considering the actual work being done (Celtic park only cost 40 million a few years ago and although not perfect is light years ahead of what is being planned here). It may be a missed opportunity. I think if you spend that much money you should have top class stadium
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 19, 2012, 01:11:37 PM
The "Shed End" they are planning for the Andytown Road end probably looks worse than it is. I guess they have made that end deeper as they need the extra room for entry/exit points and location of shops etc. so makes sense to build seating above that.

Will there be any room on the site for team buses etc. per the current setup? Looks like the new stadium will take up the entire site as it stands.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2012, 01:14:10 AM
How far is it from Balmoral station to Casement? Isn't it a bit dodgy around the Balmoral stop for folk wearing GAA tops?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on November 20, 2012, 10:13:26 PM
The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.

Glad to hear. I would consider the train to Casement in future.

Trains to and from Portadown - Balmoral are every hour on a Sunday, and every half hour on a Saturday.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on November 20, 2012, 10:20:40 PM
Would Finaghy not be handier to Casement and def "our side". That said, Balmoral to Casement is a dead on path too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 20, 2012, 11:07:29 PM
Would Finaghy not be handier to Casement and def "our side". That said, Balmoral to Casement is a dead on path too.
Google Maps says 1.4 miles from Finaghy NIR to Casement and 1.2 miles from Balmoral NIR.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on November 20, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
Does it go through Riverdale though? Also, you have to cross a set of traffic lights at Musgrave hospital and 4 sets of traffic lights at the M1 roundabout. Friggin' handlin'.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on November 21, 2012, 07:52:44 AM
Does it go through Riverdale though? Also, you have to cross a set of traffic lights at Musgrave hospital and 4 sets of traffic lights at the M1 roundabout. Friggin' handlin'.
Well spotted. I selected driving instead of walking - 1.1miles from Finaghy via Riverdale.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on November 21, 2012, 09:50:14 AM
Is this disaster-in-waiting still supposed to be an all-seater?

If anyone of any influence is reading this - covered terracing please alongside the pitch. Have a look at the Athletic grounds or at the new Ravenhill plans. Or if you want to get really novel, have a look at some of the soccer grounds with 'safe standing', like Innsbruck, where the seats can be folded away and people stand for particular games.




Advantages:
- Another tier of pricing.
- Able to fit more people in for big games without associated cost of construction. [Note: lower cost of construction only applies for conventional terrace, not standing/seating hybrid.]
- Freedom of choice for patrons.
- Better atmosphere.

Disadvantages:
- Prawn sandwich brigade are confined to 3 stands instead of 4. [Which will not be a problem in all but the biggest of games.]
- Some people falsely belief a stadium must be all-seater to be modern. [Look in the mirror.]
- The soccer bunch would not be able to use the covered terrace.[Which will not be a problem with Windsor getting a revamp as well.]

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: offtheground on November 21, 2012, 10:34:16 AM
Agree with radiogaagaa, 'safe standing' is a great idea;

http://www.safestandingroadshow.co.uk/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on December 05, 2012, 05:24:20 PM
Work due to start in January. Still no proper images/fly throughs of the stadium??

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=182050
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 05, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
The first images of the new Casement Park will be available tonight at 8pm.

www.casementpark.ie (http://www.casementpark.ie)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on February 05, 2013, 05:15:13 PM
Answer me this.

What is happening the floodlights? Are they being retained? They're relatively new so it would be a shame if they were replaced.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 05, 2013, 05:19:53 PM
i would say those lights will be gone the new lights i believe will be incorporated into the new roof. Prob give them to someother county or club ground. Any county in Ulster not have floodlights?  Clones?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on February 05, 2013, 05:58:59 PM
good idea snoopdog . because of messing by our county board and the ulster council the only county without t.v.quality lights and it seems that the grant scheme has expired.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 05, 2013, 08:16:46 PM
Impressive render

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: redcard on February 05, 2013, 08:22:20 PM
Impressive render

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Not the same without those adorable casement park stewards.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Ulick on February 05, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Uncovered at two ends?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 05, 2013, 08:36:08 PM
Uncovered at two ends?

Yeah. I believe that was stated before Christmas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 05, 2013, 08:47:59 PM
Impressive render

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That's some crowd for an Antrim/Down hurling game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 05, 2013, 08:50:06 PM
Uncovered at two ends?

Yeah. I believe that was stated before Christmas.
Probably necessary considering how close houses are, especially at the back end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on February 05, 2013, 08:50:47 PM
That's good I reckon, leaving the ends uncovered gives a good frame for Black Mountain in the background.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 05, 2013, 08:55:34 PM
Given that Casement is still due to host the Monaghan game this summer, I'm assuming the schedule is sliding? It could well be 2017 before it's finished.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on February 06, 2013, 12:27:12 PM
Why is every player in this half of the field running towards the square?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Winnie Peg on February 06, 2013, 12:34:20 PM
A beautiful stadium which the paid Ulster GAA officials will take great pride in but another white elephant which the ordinary GAA person will be paying for in 50 years time. From a financial viewpoint, it is totally untenable and will be open and only 25% full on less days than the union jack will be flying on the city hall.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: PAULD123 on February 06, 2013, 01:36:30 PM
Impressive render

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Some game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2013, 01:52:20 PM
Quote
Some game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!

The goalie and 2 other Antrim players are wrestling with 4 Down players at the corner flag just off the right of the picture!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on February 06, 2013, 01:55:00 PM
Quote
Some game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!

The goalie and 2 other Antrim players are wrestling with 4 Down players at the corner flag just off the right of the picture!

At least three Antrim men with no helmets on too, is the ref not paying attention at all!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on February 06, 2013, 01:57:39 PM
Quote
Some game that only -  11 Down players and 12 Antrim players on the pitch, And with no Antrim goalie, I fancy thon Down forward's chances of slotting the goal home!!!

The goalie and 2 other Antrim players are wrestling with 4 Down players at the corner flag just off the right of the picture!

That's Liam Clarke at the edge of the 6 yard area. Liam has never been that far up the pitch in his life.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tommysmith on February 06, 2013, 02:02:34 PM
Whats the cost of this project?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: southdown on February 06, 2013, 02:02:46 PM
Forget all the negative comments.  That is a great looking stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Stall the Bailer on February 06, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
No big square in the future either. Who suggested these new rules?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 06, 2013, 03:19:03 PM
Why is every player in this half of the field running towards the square?

You haven't seen much Ulster hurling, have you Hardy!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:40:06 PM
The stadium looks great and it would be fantastic to have such a state of the art stadium in ulster. Cant see it being viable at all though, unless it is used for other sports or concerts etc
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Corkey22 on February 06, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: sheamy on February 06, 2013, 04:09:40 PM
£76m and no ball stops
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Stall the Bailer on February 06, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
£76m and no ball stops
Sure they couldn't even paint a black spot on the crossbar.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 06, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Impressive design but the Anderstown road end leaves a lot to be desired! Why no cover on this end!! With our weather this is madness. No one will want to be exposed to the elements.

Still feel at 40k it's a bit big. Would love to have seen it modelled along the lines of the Forsythe Barr stadium in New Zealand (see link). 30k capacity, breathable roof with natural turf. Cost in the region of 100 million pounds. 25 million more than the current proposal.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=rugby+stadium+dunedin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|BJSeN42h74v5iM:
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 06, 2013, 07:15:18 PM
Impressive design but the Anderstown road end leaves a lot to be desired! Why no cover on this end!! With our weather this is madness. No one will want to be exposed to the elements.

Still feel at 40k it's a bit big. Would love to have seen it modelled along the lines of the Forsythe Barr stadium in New Zealand (see link). 30k capacity, breathable roof with natural turf. Cost in the region of 100 million pounds. 25 million more than the current proposal.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=rugby+stadium+dunedin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|BJSeN42h74v5iM:

That's hideous looking.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on February 06, 2013, 07:48:16 PM
It's only open at one end

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 08:12:09 PM
I dunno lads; looks we like a soccer stadium to me......... Give me an oul tin roof with oul lads leaning over a barrier chatting about an u-10 game chewing straw any day.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 06, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Looks fantastic, built for concerts id say with the open end for a stage. Mini croker.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 06, 2013, 08:48:19 PM
Impressive design but the Anderstown road end leaves a lot to be desired! Why no cover on this end!! With our weather this is madness. No one will want to be exposed to the elements.

Still feel at 40k it's a bit big. Would love to have seen it modelled along the lines of the Forsythe Barr stadium in New Zealand (see link). 30k capacity, breathable roof with natural turf. Cost in the region of 100 million pounds. 25 million more than the current proposal.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=rugby+stadium+dunedin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#biv=i|0;d|BJSeN42h74v5iM:

That's hideous looking.

Everyone to their own! I just think this is a rather lazy design, with the GAA again more concerned with capacity than adaptability!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on February 06, 2013, 08:59:30 PM
Looks good but where is the car & coach park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 09:17:06 PM
Looks good but where is the car & coach park?

Up in the waste ground beside the pd; a couple of local youths in celtic tops will be charging two euro a piece to make sure your vehicle is secure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 06, 2013, 09:19:38 PM
The Wolfe Tones will pack a quare few in there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 09:46:00 PM
Great for political demonstrations and commemorations too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 06, 2013, 09:49:44 PM
Quote
Great for political demonstrations and commemorations too.

Do you think they will have the next "Ulster" day there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: laoislad on February 06, 2013, 09:55:37 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 06, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
Very very impressive stadium. Will Ulster finals be played here? Clones will never get a game then
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 10:08:37 PM
The Wolfe Tones will pack a quare few in there.

They are doing their 245th anniversary concert there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on February 06, 2013, 10:16:37 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on February 06, 2013, 10:20:31 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

One day a year it will be filled as you say, no other days. Ah well it has been but for the next 50 years so their could be an I crease in people attending GAA matches so maybe it will help come then.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 06, 2013, 10:22:53 PM
Will there be a new hotel as part of the developement ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Worker on February 06, 2013, 10:24:59 PM
Capacity confirmed at 38k, perfect IMO
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 10:29:45 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 06, 2013, 10:59:52 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

When will games start at Ibrox?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:04:25 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on February 06, 2013, 11:06:14 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

Why is it called Ibrox?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 06, 2013, 11:07:21 PM
Only the Rossa ones call it that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 06, 2013, 11:11:58 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

Did they ever reopen the stand in Corrigan after it was closed due to the Johnnies & Lamhs fans knocking f**k out of each other during a senior championship match a few years ago ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 11:13:02 PM
Only the Rossa ones call it that.
That's not true.


I think it's because they play in blue and white and they're a shower of cnuts.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on February 06, 2013, 11:14:15 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
i have no problem home to pitch in 7 minutes and my bother can make it in 2. Personally i will miss the big day in clones but i would say that
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 11:14:27 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

Did they ever reopen the stand in Corrigan after it was closed due to the Johnnies & Lamhs fans knocking f**k out of each other during a senior championship match a few years ago ?

No.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ck on February 06, 2013, 11:20:42 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
i have no problem home to pitch in 7 minutes and my bother can make it in 2. Personally i will miss the big day in clones but i would say that

Ill not miss Clones. An awful town to access. A trip up the motorway to Casement should be a better experience for everyone
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on February 06, 2013, 11:23:10 PM
Does anyone know where Antrim will play when this is being built?
Ibrox
Funny you should say that because I was told that they would play in Corrigan Park (which used to be our county ground). Im not sure I believe that though.

Corrigan Park is the home of St. John's GAC and is known to many in Antrim as Ibrox.

When will games start at Ibrox?

Last I heard Casement was to close in Sept '13. That was a while ago though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on February 06, 2013, 11:38:51 PM
How many times a year will it be filled.Ulster Final day? Can't think if too many other games that will attract a capacity crowd.Must be the end of th road for Clones,definitely.

I like Clones as a venue, but it's a pain in the arse getting to and from it. Will be a lot handier getting to Casement.
i have no problem home to pitch in 7 minutes and my bother can make it in 2. Personally i will miss the big day in clones but i would say that

Ill not miss Clones. An awful town to access. A trip up the motorway to Casement should be a better experience for everyone
not everyone not cavan fermanagh monaghan parts of armagh parts of tyrone but its a done deal and not one thing can or will be done to move the development out of casement(progress?) . as you may have worked out my home club is clones and have had a long and happy memories of ulster finals . I do wonder how this will be paid for in the long term and hope that it doesnt end up being an albatross around clubs necks as i imagine that there will be minimum attendants figures to make the place viable.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 07, 2013, 12:32:11 PM
Casement will get the odd league final and the odd All Irleand Quarter id assume. Clones will still get an Ulster Semi every year. If some of the so called Gaels in Ireland would get up of their arses and support their county instead of only going to big games we could have a few more of these stadiums around the country, but the GAA do themselves no favours by playing down the league and the qualifiers.
Whether its used or not its great for Ulster football to have such a showpiece stadium, with 75 % of the cash coming from her majesty. No brainer for the GAA, you could pump 17 million into Clones and it still wouldnt be enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on February 07, 2013, 12:37:59 PM
It's the running costs and rates that will be the problem longer term. It's relatively easy to get the capital to build something. Sustaining it is always a bigger problem.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 07, 2013, 01:35:54 PM
Quote
Casement will get the odd league final and the odd All Irleand Quarter id assume.

Casement is simply not well located for such events, just as the likes of Wexford Park isn't. Unless a league or quarter final involves two of about 5 counties then there is no real advantage in playing games there. Perhaps it could be used for Dublin v Donegal, but people with boxes in Croke Park are not keen for such games to be elsewhere.

It is a no-brainer with the financial arrangements, but still a bit of a white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on February 07, 2013, 10:47:34 PM
Quote
Casement will get the odd league final and the odd All Irleand Quarter id assume.

Casement is simply not well located for such events, just as the likes of Wexford Park isn't. Unless a league or quarter final involves two of about 5 counties then there is no real advantage in playing games there. Perhaps it could be used for Dublin v Donegal, but people with boxes in Croke Park are not keen for such games to be elsewhere.

It is a no-brainer with the financial arrangements, but still a bit of a white elephant.

Not just a white elephant  - ANOTHER white elephant among the GAA stadia of Ulster (Park Esler, Healy, Celtic) that will only ever stage a capacity crowd once every couple of years (if that). These ego projects are diverting money from genuine games development. What we need are family friendly grounds, capacity around 10,000 max, proper covered accommodation and family-orientated facilities, in each county - with one central provincial venue for ALL major games, capacity about 30,000. Not gonna happen now.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on February 07, 2013, 11:40:42 PM
The economically nonviable statelet most of us in Ulster live in has better things to be spending money on than a 40,000 seater stadium in the suburbs of Belfast. It won't add much to the economy of West Belfast, apart from a few bumper days for a few pubs. It will arguably be less able to deal with traffic than Clones - we could be walking half way to Lisburn to get to the cars on the one day a year it will be full. Less, not more, people are going to matches. It's a trophy to lobbyists that have campaigned for it years. As others have said in the thread there are enough good venues, including Casement as it is.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on February 08, 2013, 10:29:35 AM
The economically nonviable statelet most of us in Ulster live in has better things to be spending money on than a 40,000 seater stadium in the suburbs of Belfast. It won't add much to the economy of West Belfast, apart from a few bumper days for a few pubs. It will arguably be less able to deal with traffic than Clones - we could be walking half way to Lisburn to get to the cars on the one day a year it will be full. Less, not more, people are going to matches. It's a trophy to lobbyists that have campaigned for it years. As others have said in the thread there are enough good venues, including Casement as it is.

I agree that it is too big and have argued (see previous posts) that it should be more adaptable for use by the local community! However I think it was a take it or leave it grant from the British govt for one major stadium to be built. I don't think the GAA had the option of putting say 30 million into the current casement and dividing the remainder up for promoting the games at grass roots!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on February 08, 2013, 10:44:44 AM
Why are people still giving out about this. The GAA were given 70 odd million from the British government to build a stadium and that is what they are doing. dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
The Soccer and Rugby are also doing the same with thier money. Seen the new windsor its also gonna be a lovely stadium, Ravenhill not so much, but a roof at all ends.
Ive said it before if the GAA bothered to promote the game the way Rugby does the likes of Newry Healy Celtic and Casement would have no bother attracting the crowds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on February 08, 2013, 11:06:58 AM
As I said the GAA should not look a gift horse in the mouth.
There are two things. It is a pity that a Cardiff style roof is not possible, accepting that this is difficult on the bigger GAA pitch. Secondly it would be helpful if the ground had a Croke Park like status that could allow other sports be played there the odd time, which would help relations in the Belfast context. Say if an important winter Ulster rugby game could be switched to a roofed Casement.

I think comparisons with Pairc Esler, Athletic Grounds, Healy Pk etc area bit overdone. These grounds have decent stands and inexpensive terraces for the infrequent big crowds. The stand in the Athletic Grounds would be substantially full for a variety of games,  intercounty fixtures, club double-headers, etc and not just once a year. The attendance at Antrim league games will not fill one quarter of these stands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with an Ulster rugby game at Casement but it wouldn't sit easy if Jamie Bryson was dancing in front of the Andersonstown Road end dressed as Footie!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on February 08, 2013, 02:57:53 PM
The Ciaran Bar
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 08, 2013, 02:59:54 PM
Sambo Stall
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2013, 03:08:19 PM
In the spirit of the Association how about:

The Volunteers' Stand
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on February 08, 2013, 03:09:52 PM
Hippy's Chippy.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on February 08, 2013, 03:14:55 PM
They'll have to honour former managers:

Baker Bradley's Baked Spuds So It Is
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on February 08, 2013, 03:26:50 PM
Hippy's Chippy.

with Mushy Peas.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 12, 2013, 12:12:45 PM
The Ulster GAA are looking feedback for the Casement Park Project.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/R8F2K63 (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/R8F2K63)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 13, 2013, 07:11:36 PM
Just completed the survey.  I asked what they're doing about parking. Also, what's up with the random triangles on the trusses on the roof?  Aren't they going to cast some strange shadows on the pitch during games?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 20, 2013, 07:47:44 PM
I see Windsor Park has got planning approval. Good clip on BBC news of Balex Attwood atvthe press photocall dressed in NI shirt and toe tapping a football
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 21, 2013, 10:39:28 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Craigyhill Terror on February 21, 2013, 11:21:36 AM
Hippy's Chippy.

The two Donnellys should just move the butcher's shop down from Ballycastle, or set up a new grill:
Hippy Hippy Steaks
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on February 21, 2013, 06:03:43 PM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on February 23, 2013, 08:44:53 AM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call
Precisely.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 23, 2013, 07:49:03 PM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call

Well no. When Windsor and Ravenhill were at the stage Casement's at now, it was all over the news.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on February 23, 2013, 08:35:47 PM
BBC show plenty about Windsor Park and Ravenhill's development plans over the year. Casement Park make an announcement and it's barely acknowledged by the BBC.
in fairness the BBC coverage is acknowledging the fact that Ravenhill and Windsor Park have received planning approval. Casement is just at the consultation stage. I assume it will get similar coverage when it gets through the planning process. We might even get to see wee Alex in an Antrim shirt at the photo call

Well no. When Windsor and Ravenhill were at the stage Casement's at now, it was all over the news.
Prove it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on February 24, 2013, 11:45:17 AM
Unfortunately I don't have access to the BBC's and UTV's archives. I did look on iPlayer and UTV Player.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on February 27, 2013, 09:02:56 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21607854



A Casement Park residents' group has accused the GAA of giving "misleading and factually inaccurate information" over the redevelopment of the stadium.

A group of local residents, called the Mooreland Owenvarragh Residents Association, are concerned about the height of the proposed new 38,000 all-seater stadium in west Belfast.
The potential shadow impact on local housing is another issue being raised.
The group claim their concerns have not been seriously addressed by the GAA.
The residents' group (MORA), which is being chaired by former Down hurling manager John Crossey, is calling for a meeting with the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure Minister Caral Ni Chuilin.

The group has held several meetings with the GAA in the last 12 months over the proximity of the £76m redevelopment project to local housing, and the impact it will have on the community and quality of life of local residents.
"Although it is the case that the meetings have been professional and genial, the Association remains concerned that issues raised on behalf of local people have not been seriously addressed by the GAA," said Crossey.

The residents are disappointed with plans to facilitate access for organisers through a tunnel entrance which goes through a small cul-de-sac in Mooreland Park.
The residents' group, which was formed in 2012, has already met with similar groups which sprung up during the redevelopment of Croke Park and the Aviva Stadium in Dublin.
They have held meetings with local political representatives, including the Environment Minister Alex Atwood, but DCAL Minister Caral Ni Chuilin has as yet not agreed to meet with the residents' group.

"A visual impact survey has not been carried out, despite a request from MORA on a number of occasions, and a shadow impact survey has still not been carried out, despite repeated requests," Crossey added.
A public consultation process is currently underway until April 2013, after which a community consultation report on the stadium will be published.

The Ulster Council pledged to build a stadium that will enhance the local community when it unveiled plans for the rebuild at a launch in the City Hall in early February.
The stadium will be built with the help of government funding (£62m) and the GAA's Central Council (£14m).
The GAA hope the new stadium will be ready before the end of 2016
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on February 27, 2013, 09:17:26 PM
Is that bollix Hardstation causing issues again?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on February 28, 2013, 05:54:59 PM
Is that bollix Hardstation causing issues again?

No John Crossey, ex Antrim hurler and manager to any team that will take him!! Surprised (though he lives there ) that he'd prefer Casement not to be redeveloped, probably impacts on a lot of residents who have used their back yards as access points (for a few quid) to get into Casement!! Oh they were the days, up a ladder and into Casement, we'd a mate (purely for this reason) who'd we call into on big match day Sunday's and climb over!! Even called when he was living in the states on year!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on March 26, 2013, 08:27:00 PM
The latest image of the proposed redevelopment of Casement Park.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:31:27 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on March 26, 2013, 08:38:46 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!
Have to agree. It wouldn't be so bad if the open end was a terrace but to have an open seated area is a mistake in my opinion
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on March 26, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
What are the plans for the fairy tree?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Armaghgeddon on March 26, 2013, 08:43:57 PM
I quite like it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on March 26, 2013, 08:45:41 PM
With our worsening weather I think an open end is pointless. I'd have preferred a reduced capacity and fully covered, if not a roof!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on March 26, 2013, 09:28:53 PM
Are you allowed to light up a feg in the stand?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 18, 2013, 10:42:01 AM
A new image of the Casement Park redevelopment concept with be tweeted from @CasementPark (http://www.twitter.com/casementpark) at 4.00pm.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on April 18, 2013, 10:48:28 AM
I see Crusaders have made it to the high court in their attempt to mount a legal challenge to the Windsor park development giving Linfield an unfair advantage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22190984 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22190984)

I hope this has no direct impact on Casement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on April 18, 2013, 06:30:33 PM
No linfield would never play at casement
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on April 18, 2013, 07:57:44 PM
I hope this has no direct impact on Casement.

According to the BBC, it shouldn't affect Casement Park or Ravenhill.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on April 18, 2013, 08:45:20 PM
I've nothing against the new Casement, as long as Antrim isn't allowed use it more than everyone else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2013, 08:51:23 PM
I've nothing against the new Casement, as long as Antrim isn't allowed use it more than everyone else.

I'll get to play for the over 40's if it gets going again, though by the time it gets built I'll be in my 50's ffs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 18, 2013, 09:06:10 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: WeeDonns on April 19, 2013, 10:14:51 AM
A new image of the Casement Park redevelopment concept with be tweeted from @CasementPark (http://www.twitter.com/casementpark) at 4.00pm.
No sign of them and the posts have been removed, maybe design changes as a result of the community consultation days?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 28, 2013, 09:52:20 AM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Tony Baloney on April 28, 2013, 10:11:29 AM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.
The site is a joke for the capacity they are talking about.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on April 28, 2013, 10:14:17 AM
Wish they would just put the grass banks back and fcuk off and leave the people of Andytown in peace.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theskull1 on April 28, 2013, 10:38:37 AM
I agree
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 12:39:30 PM
I'm for it, yes there is going to be upheaval and disruptions and residents aren't going to be happy, but to just say no to a state of the art arena is madness. It will create jobs for a lot of local builders hopefully, also with concerts and big games the local shops, bars and eateries should make a few pound extra on match days that hey would never have got. I loved the grassy banks as much as the last next guy, sitting in the sun (when it used to shine) few cans, bitta banter with the country men but its time to move on.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 28, 2013, 02:40:06 PM
........ but its time to move on.

Agreed, but let's spend this once in a century windfall on getting as good a stadium as we can get. You can't get close if you start on a site that's too small.

Long term, you can't get the revenue you need unless you host concerts. If the residents object to a roof, then they'll scupper concerts as well. Especially if an arterial route like the Andttown Rd has to be closed for hours on end.

With no concerts, this eill cost the gaa
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 28, 2013, 02:50:37 PM
........ but its time to move on.

Agreed, but let's spend this once in a century windfall on getting as good a stadium as we can get. You can't get close if you start on a site that's too small.

Long term, you can't get the revenue you need unless you host concerts. If the residents object to a roof, then they'll scupper concerts as well. Especially if an arterial route like the Andttown Rd has to be closed for hours on end.

With no concerts, this eill cost the gaa

Yes its too tight and infrastructure is poor enough but there is no other option for the money to be used, It's Casement and nowhere else. The underground parking will be a good idea, the likes of concerts I'm sure will seem difficult but plenty of stadiums that have concerts and they don't have problems, Croke Park being one of them
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 28, 2013, 03:16:01 PM
Not forgetting the Athletic Grounds!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on April 28, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.


I have no idea what this means.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 04:22:37 AM
Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Saffrongael on April 29, 2013, 07:29:15 AM
Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.

"Tall buildings" are not usually built in residential areas, on people's doorsteps.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 10:06:49 AM

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.



I have no idea what this means.

woops, I was a bit slack on the swype there. Should have read

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be closed for several hours on event days in order to create dispersal space for crowds.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 10:34:53 AM
Yes its too tight and infrastructure is poor enough but there is no other option for the money to be used, It's Casement and nowhere else.

A half truth at best. The funding conditions say that the money must be spent on one single stadium.
There's nothing to say that the single stadium must be at Casement or any other site.

It's the GAA that chose Caement, after having been given a bit of a bum steer by consultants to say that it could accommodate a 40k fully seated fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't.

And the constrained size means that the finished result will be far inferior to what could have been built on a properly sized site.

Inferior in terms of capacity.

Inferior in terms of comfort - ffs what's worse than sitting in the rain.

Inferior views of pitch because the site can't support the modern bowl design.

Inferior in terms of paying for upkeep - if we're not able to hold concerts, we, the gaa supporters, will end up paying a lot more for the thing. The wrap round bowl design also means less room for specators to circulate and spend money on bars/cafes, etc. That costs us too.

Inferior design - instead of a landmark building that advertises the GAA's strengthend presence in Belfast, we get something low rise, tucked in behind housing. The stands will be different sizes, and the ground will look more like a 1980's stadium.

the likes of concerts I'm sure will seem difficult but plenty of stadiums that have concerts and they don't have problems, Croke Park being one of them

There won't be any concerts if the residents object. If they can object to the roof, they'll object to concerts, not only because of the noise and crowds, but for the fact that the main arterial A'town Rd (meant to be getting the rapid transport thing) would be closed for hours.

-------

In principle, I fully support the stadium being in Ulster's largest city, but it only makes sense if the stadium is on a suitable site to maximise income.

Can anybody think of any decent sized sites in Gtr Belfast that would be more suitable? In the UK and here in Cork, city authorities have no problems handing parks over  to allow new stadia to be built. They see it as good for the city as a whole.  The same should be done here.

I can't see any good reason for not pausing this project in order to get a better site, preferably gifted by the city. Then we'd get a better stadium, and it could pay for its upkeep in the long term.

As things stand, after the initial buzz dies down, people will soon come to realise that the GAA should have built somewhere else to get a better result.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Main Street on April 29, 2013, 11:36:44 AM

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.



I have no idea what this means.

woops, I was a bit slack on the swype there. Should have read

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be closed for several hours on event days in order to create dispersal space for crowds.
If only Andytown Rd could be 'clawed'.
'dispersal space' is an interesting term.

A 38,000 seater stadium for ca Eur 85m sounds like a good deal, compared to the Lansdowne rd 55,000 for Eur380m.


Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 29, 2013, 11:39:01 AM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium. other areas could be at the top of the Mona by pass, the travellers have gone and there is plenty space with not too much housing.

The Falls Park could be an option also

Belfast is built up in most areas so it's always going to be difficult to keep people happy
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 12:49:46 PM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's
All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 29, 2013, 01:10:47 PM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's
  • closer to the railway stations
 not by much
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital
    • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
     Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road
    • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
    maybe
    • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
    maybe
    • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
    parks might be protected land.
    All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
[/list]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:14:49 PM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's
  • closer to the railway stations
 not by much
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital
    • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
     Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road
    • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
    maybe
    • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
    maybe
    • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
    parks might be protected land.
    All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
[/list]

The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 01:23:26 PM
An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's
  • closer to the railway stations
 not by much  still closer
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  None of whom are anywhere near as close to the stadium as Casement residents are. Potential for huge buffer zone. Hospital is almost certainly to be downgraded/closed over next few years. Any remainder health functions could be carried out on much smaller site.
  • has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital    Hospital is almost certainly to be downgraded/closed over next few years. Any remainder health functions could be carried out on much smaller site, or even share site of stadium
    • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
     Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road   perhaps, BUT there's no need to close it as the crowds can safely disperse within the confines  of Musgrave Pk itself
    • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
    maybe
    • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
    maybe
    • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
    parks might be protected land.   Already zoned recreational, any further change of use would be approved in context of overall planning gain of having a top class regioanl stadium
    All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
[/list]
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 01:26:31 PM
The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

Not true, SF/SDLP & Alliance (&GAA,IRFU and even IFA) were all in favour of shared stadium. Dissenters were alliance of NI Supporters clubs, DUP, & UUP.

SF,SDLP and Alliance now hold balance of power, and should do what's right for Belfast as a city,which in this case is to facilitate a top class, fully covered stadium, that could, with the GAA's approval be used for other events, that would financially benefit the GAA and Belfast city as a whole.

And for clarity, Casement will not be a top class stadium. The constrained site guarantees it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on April 29, 2013, 01:43:44 PM
Lads there are 100 different ways to do anything. Just because we have a notion that our way is the best please act with a little humility and assume other options have been taken into account and assessed. Some people have worked long and hard to make casement an option. I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on April 29, 2013, 01:49:01 PM
The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

Not true, SF/SDLP & Alliance (&GAA,IRFU and even IFA) were all in favour of shared stadium. Dissenters were alliance of NI Supporters clubs, DUP, & UUP.

SF,SDLP and Alliance now hold balance of power, and should do what's right for Belfast as a city,which in this case is to facilitate a top class, fully covered stadium, that could, with the GAA's approval be used for other events, that would financially benefit the GAA and Belfast city as a whole.

And for clarity, Casement will not be a top class stadium. The constrained site guarantees it.

I was referring simply to the MLA's/ Councillors in general, that they couldnt agree.

Casement does not need to be a world class stadium as it will never be hosting world class events, it was a project by Ulster Council which pays lip service to their pathetic attitude to the second biggest city and promotion of the games within it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 05:10:26 PM
please act with a little humility
Afaics we have - I can see no personally directed posts here, never mind abusive ones. The purpose of a discussion board is to discuss, express opinion, preferably backed up with some clearly reasoned logic, etc.

More open and reasoned discussion about the pros and cons can only be healthy.
If nobody questions, then you can easliy end up with an Emperors New Clothes situation.

It's important to make positive contributions - hence Milltown / my own promotion of the Musgrave Pk site. It is notable that there haven't been that many supportive posts of the current scheme, maybe a new stadium with no roof makes that difficult.

assume other options have been taken into account and assessed.
The Ulster Council did tell us that external consultants did undertake a site assessment exercise. Whether that included Musgrave, or other Belfast sites, we don't know because the findings of the consultation weren't published.

What we do know, because the Ulster council did tell us, is that the assessment picked Casement on the basis that a  40k fully covered stadium could be built there.

We now know that assessment is wrong, the site is too constrained to deliver what it was meant to deliver. The original spec called for an exemplar best of breed landmark building. We now know that the site is too small to deliver that as well. There's a myriad of other drawbacks that all stem from the inadequate site size.

Some people have worked long and hard to make Casement an option.

Nobody could seriously question the commitment and devotion of the GAA figures behind the project. They haven't done anything fundamentally wrong.  They were wrongly advised that the site could host a 40k fully covered stadium. It can't.

It's my opinion that, now we know that there will never be a roof over the A'town Rd end,  the project should now be halted for further review. If planning problems delay the project, we should push back on the artificial spending deadline imposed, to  give time to explore other sites. Both within and beyond Belfast, if Belfast CC don't see fit to grant us a site.

I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.
That would be a retrogade step. Cities, and communities within them should be fighting  to get our stadia, given the economic benefits they bring. Bribing residents opens the floodgates for long term extortion. Either they want us, or they don't. If they don't, we should pack our bags and build on a better site where our investment is truly welcome.

We should spend our cash on building good facilities that will serve the GAA community for decades to come. The needs of the GAA should be paramount.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 29, 2013, 05:20:38 PM

Casement does not need to be a world class stadium as it will never be hosting world class events

Not world class, no, but top class yes.*

Remember that the tender specs called for something along the lines of an exemplar best of breed 40k fully covered stadium. That's what the budget was meant to deliver.

Since then, in the words of the GAA,**

Quote
"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."
 
“We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"



These changes, espcially the removal of the roof at the Andytown Rd end, leave a stadium that is far from the exemplar building it was meant to be. Just how many people want to sit in the rain in a brand new £70 million stadium?

Once the roof was removed, a stop should have been made to look for alternative sites.


*As an aside, it is being lined up to host the Rugby World Cup.

** source: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 05:39:04 PM
Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.

"Tall buildings" are not usually built in residential areas, on people's doorsteps.

In the country? No. In cities? Yes they are.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2013, 05:44:57 PM
How many people are going to go to Casement in its present form and sit in the rain rather than under a ... oh.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on April 29, 2013, 07:54:49 PM
Lads there are 100 different ways to do anything. Just because we have a notion that our way is the best please act with a little humility and assume other options have been taken into account and assessed. Some people have worked long and hard to make casement an option. I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.
Why would you 'assume' that other options have been assessed?

I don't know, so best not to assume, but I never heard anything to suggest that an alternative site was considered in any options appraisal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on April 30, 2013, 12:07:01 PM
Some highly critical comments on Casement's poor "Optimum Viewing Circles" from somebody who appears to know what they're talking about on an architecture forum

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

Quote

I actually thought that once the GAA appointed Populous to design Casement Park stadium I thought we'd get a truly great stadium as these guys have so much experience in sport stadium design.

The first thing that jumped out at me is the fact that the stadium has no continuity. None of the stands are the same size, not one, even all the four corners are different sizes. To me this just looks silly and will take away from the aesthetics of any stadium. Even Croke Park and the Aviva look terrible, and they have unity on three sides.
The fact that the Andersonstown Road Stand is so big shouts out to be that they needed to increase the capacity to get it up to 40,000. So they just kept going back until the numbers added up. This is terrible design. The viewing distance from the back of this stand will be far to large.

In the case of a gaelic football the preferred viewing distance should be no more than 150m between the extreme corner of the field and spectator’s eye, with an absolute maximum of 190m. Setting out these distances from the extreme viewing positions, such as the diagonally opposed corners of a playing field, gives a preferred viewing zone and their average configuration suggests a circle struck from the centre spot on the field, generally referred to as the ‘optimum viewing circle. This circle in the case of football and rugby would have a radius of 90m.

This might sound complicated stuff but i'm sure the people at Populous know this, and if they don't they are in the wrong business. What this means is that well over half the capacity of the Andersonstown Road Stand will be outside the optimum viewing circle. The largest stands should run along the side of the pitch in the long direction.

This isn't good enough for a modern stadium.




Quote

It will definitely not be a modern stadium if the entire thing is not roofed. I hate having a ticket in Croke Park on the lower tier of the cusack stand when it rains, and lets face it we live in Ireland .. It rains
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on April 30, 2013, 04:16:17 PM
It's some guy with 6 posts on that forum - hardly someone who "knows what they are talking about" - hell I post there and I know feck all about architecture
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 30, 2013, 04:19:38 PM
"To me this just looks silly "
 must be architect jargon
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on May 22, 2013, 10:02:08 AM
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Artist's impression of new Casement Park stadium from the Andersonstown Road.

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1:250 scale model of Casement Park, available for viewing and feedback in Westwood Centre.

http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/05/final-phase-of-consultation-for-casement-park-project/ (http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/05/final-phase-of-consultation-for-casement-park-project/)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Hardy on May 22, 2013, 10:46:37 AM
I'd hate to get sitting behind that lad with the balloons.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
That open end is brutal!! Christ I wonder about these "designers" some times.

I'm no fan of the Aviva but could that open not have been looked at with a covered single tier instead of this!!

No one will want to be in that end of the ground!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: tommysmith on May 22, 2013, 11:08:43 AM
What is the point in having open end open, is that side terraced?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: southdown on May 22, 2013, 11:28:55 AM
I  personally like the open terrace, it will promote a good atmosphere akin to that of Hill 16. The ground looks great.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 11:31:39 AM
Its open seating so won't add to the atmosphere in any way!

Only purpose it will serve is people getting soaked!

I'm not being negative as the rest of the ground looks superb!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 11:54:42 AM
Maybe it's a big smoking area.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 12:21:31 PM
Maybe it's a big smoking area.

That's where the young bucks get the hurling balls and take off like the wind with them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on May 22, 2013, 12:31:32 PM
I like it.  Great to see it moving forward.  I wouldnt worry about seating on the open planned area though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2013, 01:54:28 PM
No one will want to be in that end of the ground!
Will ye get anyone in any end at all?
500 at the NFL game v Ros and 300 of them were from Ros .

Is there anywhere to park a car within miles of the place?

Anyway best of luck with it  - and could ye send us a few € or £s even to buy a digital scoreboard.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
What is the point in having open end open, is that side terraced?

In a nutshell, the reason is that the site is too small.

This was meant to be a 40k fully covered stadium, but the site hasn't the width to accommodate enough people in the two main stands either side of the pitch. This is where you want them to be, because that is where more people get the best possible views of the pitch (see Optimum Viewing Circle definition [1]).

To get the capacity up to 38k (still short of the original 40k), more people have to be shoved behind the goals the A'town Road, regardless of the fact that most of these people will, for a modern stadium, have a dreadful viewing experience. Again, read the Optimum Viewing Circle link below.

To compound things, to put a roof over this A'town rd stand would block out the daylight to residents in the apartments opposite, who complained strongly, and the planned roof was dropped in response to their complaints. (look at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744 to see the  original rough plans with the roof over teh A'town Rd end.)

So we end up with this awful A'town Rd stand with a crap view and no roof. An awful mistake and one that can never be rectified.

Far better to pick a big enough site and start again. £75 Million should deliver the full 40k fully covered, all with an optimal view on any site big enough.


[1]For full details on Optimum Viewing Circles, read this stadium design book and have a look at the diagrams of the Emirates Stadium to see how it should be done. 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55405252/57/Viewing-distances
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:43:04 PM
When are they due to begin the redevelopment, September is it? The Antrim - Monaghan game is in Casement
And when do they expect to have it complete. It looks fairly impressive. All Ulster Finals will be in Casement when it's done I think?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 02:45:42 PM
What is the point in having open end open, is that side terraced?

In a nutshell, the reason is that the site is too small.

This was meant to be a 40k fully covered stadium, but the site hasn't the width to accommodate enough people in the two main stands either side of the pitch. This is where you want them to be, because that is where more people get the best possible views of the pitch (see Optimum Viewing Circle definition [1]).

To get the capacity up to 38k (still short of the original 40k), more people have to be shoved behind the goals the A'town Road, regardless of the fact that most of these people will, for a modern stadium, have a dreadful viewing experience. Again, read the Optimum Viewing Circle link below.

To compound things, to put a roof over this A'town rd stand would block out the daylight to residents in the apartments opposite, who complained strongly, and the planned roof was dropped in response to their complaints. (look at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744 to see the  original rough plans with the roof over teh A'town Rd end.)

So we end up with this awful A'town Rd stand with a crap view and no roof. An awful mistake and one that can never be rectified.

Far better to pick a big enough site and start again. £75 Million should deliver the full 40k fully covered, all with an optimal view on any site big enough.


[1]For full details on Optimum Viewing Circles, read this stadium design book and have a look at the diagrams of the Emirates Stadium to se how it should be done. 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55405252/57/Viewing-distances


So if the reason behind the uncovered end is due to daylight reducution then how come it passed on the other 3 sides?? If anything I would have thought the houses at the rear of the current stand lie closer to the proposed development than those on the Andytown road!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:48:31 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:52:18 PM

So if the reason behind the uncovered end is due to daylight reducution then how come it passed on the other 3 sides?? If anything I would have thought the houses at the rear of the current stand lie closer to the proposed development than those on the Andytown road!!

The stand roof would had to have been much higher than the others, because (unbelievably for a new stadium) the A'town Rd stand behind the goals would be much deeper than the others.

The GAA confirmed that the roof had been dropped in order to appease objecting residents ( go back a page in this thread for proof ).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Would like to have you as an estimator 200m  ::)

The plan is to go ahead on the casement site, end of.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on May 22, 2013, 02:55:15 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Fair enough, you know more about it then me
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 02:56:17 PM
It looks fairly impressive.

There's nothing impressive about it.

It's a joke - no-one builds a house with 3/4 of a roof when they've enough money to build it right.

Hopefully planning permission won't be granted on the basis that a main arterial route (potentially with bus expressway) will have to be closed for several hours each event day.

The best site is 200m away, in Musgrave Park.

Would like to have you as an estimator 200m  ::)

The plan is to go ahead on the casement site, end of.

fair enough, I measured it on google maps and came up with 329.966 m
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 02:59:03 PM
I'm not sure that's right about the residents of the apartments, snatter. The only resident complaints I've heard have come from MORA who are as far as I'm aware, really only interested in the other 3 sides.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:04:30 PM
I'm not sure that's right about the residents of the apartments, snatter. The only resident complaints I've heard have come from MORA who are as far as I'm aware, really only interested in the other 3 sides.

They're now only interested in the other 3 sides because the GAA has capitulated already over the A'town rd end.

I got a tweeted confirmation from the A'town News sports reporter about two months ago.

And two weeks ago, the GAA said it had changed the orignal plans for a roof over the A'town Rd end to appease residents

Quote
"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."
 
“We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"


full article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 03:11:31 PM
I'm not sure that's right about the residents of the apartments, snatter. The only resident complaints I've heard have come from MORA who are as far as I'm aware, really only interested in the other 3 sides.

I got a tweeted confirmation from the A'town News sports reporter about two months ago.

And two weeks ago, the GAA said it had changed the orignal plans for a roof over the A'town Rd end to appease residents

Quote
"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."
 
“We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"


full article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/
Sure the first ever photo they put out (months ago) didn't have a roof at the Andytown Road end.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 03:16:21 PM

So if the reason behind the uncovered end is due to daylight reducution then how come it passed on the other 3 sides?? If anything I would have thought the houses at the rear of the current stand lie closer to the proposed development than those on the Andytown road!!

The stand roof would had to have been much higher than the others, because (unbelievably for a new stadium) the A'town Rd stand behind the goals would be much deeper than the others.

The GAA confirmed that the roof had been dropped in order to appease objecting residents ( go back a page in this thread for proof ).

As I previously said if they had along the lines of the Aviva and put one covered tier along the Andytown road that would have been visually much better. As for Musgrave Park. Is that in the West Belfast or South Belfast district? I couldn't see too many South Belfast Unionists voting for a Gaelic stadium on their back door!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:18:57 PM

Sure the first ever photo they put out (months ago) didn't have a roof at the Andytown Road end.


Go to the first post in this link to view the original renders, published many months before  that clearly show the A'town Rd stand, complete with roof.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

and then read the article at http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/

It couldn't be any clearer - straight from the GAA's mouth - they dropped the A'town Rd stand to appease residents' objections.

Quote

"the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially."
 
“We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered......"

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:22:59 PM

As I previously said if they had along the lines of the Aviva and put one covered tier along the Andytown road that would have been visually much better.

Completely agree, and I guess most people would rather sit in a covered stand behind the goals, on a seat not too far away form the pitch, than stand in the rain further back with a crap view.

But then that would reduce capacity and they'd be even shorter of the design goal of 40k fully covered that they were aiming for.

The site is simply too small. Start again.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on May 22, 2013, 03:24:06 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:27:31 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.

+1
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:37:12 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.

The Skyscraper render ( post 1 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744), complete with roof,  was published at a Community Consultation Event held in November 2012.
Look at the date of the posting: November 19th, 2012

The first photos, minus the roof, came out in Feb 2013.

Between Nov 2012 and feb 2013, the GAA had decided to drop the A'town Rd roof, in order to appease residents.

This was confirmed in the following article, published on 23 April 2013.



Full Article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/

Quote

THE Casement Park Stadium Project Board (CPSPB) have rejected claims by the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents’ Association (MORA) that they have been ignoring their concerns, stating they have been engaging with them and other stakeholders since April last year.

A CPSPB spokesman said the  process has been led by a senior Ulster GAA official who has met with the MORA group on a monthly basis and provided the group with ongoing information in relation to the design concept.

The design team for the stadium was appointed in September 2012 and the team held its first meeting with MORA on the day of its appointment,” he said. “Since then we have listened to all the concerns tabled by the residents’ group and other stakeholders  and as a result   the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially.

We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered and we have also ensured that the stadium cloud is made of a translucent material.

“The GAA has also held five open night events in Belfast, three of which were in held in the Andersonstown Leisure Centre, and additionally the project team conducted a door-knock exercise with 280 homes on Saturday, April 13 to get direct feedback and input from residents neighbouring Casement Park.

“We have also attended two open residents meetings organised by MORA to provide updates on the project and get feedback on their concerns.”

And the spokesman revealed the GAA  are planning further consultation events in the coming weeks.

“Ulster GAA continues to be in constant contact with the local residents, political representatives, community groups and other relevant stakeholders regarding the design of this project,” he added.

“Regarding traffic management, these proposals are in draft form at present and we have already offered the MORA group representation on the event management team which will develop the proposals for match days.

“Any proposal for traffic control will be developed in partnership with the local residents and the statutory authorities.

“At the centre of this plan will be to ensure that residents are not adversely impacted by match day traffic.

“A full environmental statement will be submitted with the planning application and we have already conducted several studies on-site and the local area as part of the environmental statement.

“Ulster GAA will ensure that Casement Park is a significant social and economic driver for the entire province of Ulster, the city of Belfast and in particular West Belfast and we will continue to consult and engage with the local residents to ensure that this new development has a positive impact on them and their locality.

“The new Casement project will potentially bring £15 million a year to the local economy and will also see a £76.4 million boost for the local construction industry.

“Ulster GAA remains committed to the development of GAA in Ireland’s second city and the promotion of economic and social regeneration in the city through the development of our games and activities,” he added.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
That's not what that bit in green says. In fact, it doesn't mention residents at all.

The picture I posted came out before any meeting with residents occured.

The Skyscraper render ( post 1 at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744), complete with roof,  was published at a Community Consultation Event held in November 2012.
Look at the date of the posting: November 19th, 2012

The first photos, minus the roof, came out in Feb 2013.

Between Nov 2012 and feb 2013, the GAA had decided to drop the A'town Rd roof, in order to appease residents.

This was confirmed in the following article, published on 23 April 2013.



Full Article: http://belfastmediagroup.com/gaa-rejects-claims-theyre-not-engaging/

Quote

THE Casement Park Stadium Project Board (CPSPB) have rejected claims by the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents’ Association (MORA) that they have been ignoring their concerns, stating they have been engaging with them and other stakeholders since April last year.

A CPSPB spokesman said the  process has been led by a senior Ulster GAA official who has met with the MORA group on a monthly basis and provided the group with ongoing information in relation to the design concept.

The design team for the stadium was appointed in September 2012 and the team held its first meeting with MORA on the day of its appointment,” he said. “Since then we have listened to all the concerns tabled by the residents’ group and other stakeholders  and as a result   the project team have substantially changed the design of the stadium concept by reducing the capacity from 40,000 to 38,000 to reduce the height. We have also developed a truss system, again to lower the height of the building substantially.

We have changed the Andersonstown Road section of the stadium to leave it uncovered and we have also ensured that the stadium cloud is made of a translucent material.

“The GAA has also held five open night events in Belfast, three of which were in held in the Andersonstown Leisure Centre, and additionally the project team conducted a door-knock exercise with 280 homes on Saturday, April 13 to get direct feedback and input from residents neighbouring Casement Park.

“We have also attended two open residents meetings organised by MORA to provide updates on the project and get feedback on their concerns.”

And the spokesman revealed the GAA  are planning further consultation events in the coming weeks.

“Ulster GAA continues to be in constant contact with the local residents, political representatives, community groups and other relevant stakeholders regarding the design of this project,” he added.

“Regarding traffic management, these proposals are in draft form at present and we have already offered the MORA group representation on the event management team which will develop the proposals for match days.

“Any proposal for traffic control will be developed in partnership with the local residents and the statutory authorities.

“At the centre of this plan will be to ensure that residents are not adversely impacted by match day traffic.

“A full environmental statement will be submitted with the planning application and we have already conducted several studies on-site and the local area as part of the environmental statement.

“Ulster GAA will ensure that Casement Park is a significant social and economic driver for the entire province of Ulster, the city of Belfast and in particular West Belfast and we will continue to consult and engage with the local residents to ensure that this new development has a positive impact on them and their locality.

“The new Casement project will potentially bring £15 million a year to the local economy and will also see a £76.4 million boost for the local construction industry.

“Ulster GAA remains committed to the development of GAA in Ireland’s second city and the promotion of economic and social regeneration in the city through the development of our games and activities,” he added.

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 03:58:59 PM

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?

Ah, in face of overwhelming evidence that the GAA did in fact drop the A'town roof, you now try to move to playing the man rather than the ball. A -1 for that.

I'd prefer to talk about why we're getting 3/4 of a stadium for £75 million, and not the full 40k, fully covered stadium that we deserve.

But as your asking, my angle, as a lifelong gaa fan, is that

1. I think that the Ulster Council have been given a bum steer when they were told that Casement was a big enough site. It's not.
The design deficiencies at the A'town Rd end all stem from that.

2. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the GAA to get this level of funding, and the decisions they're taking now will reduce the amount of future income that would otherwise have been gained by buiilding a bigger, fully covered stadium on a larger site. This is because a bigger stadium, on a bigger site would be able to hold more money generating events. A more neutral site such as Musgrave Park would help in this regard, attracting more events.

3. Architecturally, as a GAA fan and a wee bit of stadium fan, I wanted this stadium to be a beacon of a resurgent GAA in Belfast, to raise the GAA's profile, to announce to Belfast that we are the biggest sporting organisation in Ulster, and that our Belfast presence was growing.

4. I wanted the stadium to be tall and highly visible to the whole city as a statement that the Irish dimension within our city was growing. That the GAA could no longer be ignored, with an impressive 40k stadium v's the 20k soccer stadium that attracts crowds half the size but gets disproportionately more media coverage. I'm old enough to remember the injustice I felt at the IFA being given a Windsor Park stand for free in 1983, whilst GAA crowds three times the size were still standing on wet grass banks, yet we got nothing.

5. I'm a bit disturbed that GAA fans aren't taking as much interest in the outcome of this project, when it will affect us for decades to come.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 04:06:13 PM

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?

Ah, in face of overwhelming evidence that the GAA did in fact drop the A'town roof, you now try to move to playing the man rather than the ball. A -1 for that.

I'd prefer to talk about why we're getting 3/4 of a stadium for £75 million, and not the full 40k, fully covered stadium that we deserve.

But as your asking, my angle, as a lifelong gaa fan, is that

1. I think that the Ulster Council have been given a bum steer when they were told that Casement was a big enough site. It's not.
The design deficiencies at the A'town Rd end all stem from that.

2. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the GAA to get this level of funding, and the decisions they're taking now will reduce the amount of future income that would otherwise have been gained by buiilding a bigger, fully covered stadium on a larger site. This is because a bigger stadium, on a bigger site would be able to hold more money generating events. A more neutral site such as Musgrave Park would help in this regard, attracting more events.

3. Architecturally, as a GAA fan and a wee bit of stadium fan, I wanted this stadium to be a beacon of a resurgent GAA in Belfast, to raise the GAA's profile, to announce to Belfast that we are the biggest sporting organisation in Ulster, and that our Belfast presence was growing.

4. I wanted the stadium to be tall and highly visible to the whole city as a statement that the Irish dimension within our city was growing. That the GAA could no longer be ignored, with an impressive 40k stadium v's the 20k soccer stadium that attracts crowds half the size but gets disproportionately more media coverage.

5. I'm a bit disturbed that GAA fans aren't taking as much interest in the outcome of this project, when it will affect us for decades to come.



I can't argue with that!! On the money there.

The reason we don't agrue/discuss/compromise is because there is an inbuilt element of assuming the hierarchy of the GAA is always right!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 22, 2013, 04:15:59 PM

So what is your angle Snatter?

Are you a resident?

Are you an Antrim supporter?

Are you a stadium aficionado?

Or do you just want to complain that there is no roof on the Andytown road end?

Ah, in face of overwhelming evidence that the GAA did in fact drop the A'town roof, you now try to move to playing the man rather than the ball. A -1 for that.

I always found playing the man was a good route to finding out what was in him for the rest of the game, so no apologies for that.

I'd prefer to talk about why we're getting 3/4 of a stadium for £75 million, and not the full 40k, fully covered stadium that we deserve.

But as your asking, my angle, as a lifelong gaa fan, is that
1. I think that the Ulster Council have been given a bum steer when they were told that Casement was a big enough site. It's not.
The design deficiencies at the A'town Rd end all stem from that.

2. this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for the GAA to get this level of funding, and the decisions they're taking now will reduce the amount of future income that would otherwise have been gained by buiilding a bigger, fully covered stadium on a larger site. This is because a bigger stadium, on a bigger site would be able to hold more money generating events. A more neutral site such as Musgrave Park would help in this regard, attracting more events.

3. Architecturally, as a GAA fan and a wee bit of stadium fan, I wanted this stadium to be a beacon of a resurgent GAA in Belfast, to raise the GAA's profile, to announce to Belfast that we are the biggest sporting organisation in Ulster, and that our Belfast presence was growing.

4. I wanted the stadium to be tall and highly visible to the whole city as a statement that the Irish dimension within our city was growing. That the GAA could no longer be ignored, with an impressive 40k stadium v's the 20k soccer stadium that attracts crowds half the size but gets disproportionately more media coverage.

5. I'm a bit disturbed that GAA fans aren't taking as much interest in the outcome of this project, when it will affect us for decades to come.

1. Do you genuinely believe that the Ulster council and their paid staff have not been given all the information concerning the project with all the various debates floating around it. I for one do not.

2. For the amount of games and events the stadium as presented at the moment is more than adequate, how many outdoor concert type events were held on the Island of Ireland last year?

3. I would rather the GAA put some real money into the GAA in Belfast in development terms. Clubs are struggling and going to the wall at the moment and I would rather see staff on the ground helping these clubs develop than anything. Do you really think the GAA in Belfast is resurgent, what is your evidence for this?

4. Building a stadium just to put two fingers up the soccer dogs to me doesnt make sense, if you drove down the M1 any night the floodlights were on that would bring a smile to my face anyway.

5. Plenty of fans have an interest in it, just not completely negative or worked up about it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 22, 2013, 04:50:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on May 22, 2013, 04:52:04 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

To be fair to the Ulster Branch I think they were on board with the multi-purpose stadium. They just had issues over capacity!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on May 22, 2013, 05:08:25 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

Here's the bum steer the Ulster Council were given back in 2010. Afaicr, this is the point when Casement was announced as the preferred site for what was to have been a 40k fully covered stadium. Up until then, no site had been decided.

Key quote in red.

http://www.setanta.com/ca/Articles/2010/10/06/Casement-Park-set-for-makeover/gnid-78446/

Quote

Casement Park set for makeover by Setanta staff , 06 October 2010


Belfast’s Casement Park could become the permanent home for the Ulster SFC final if an ambitious overhaul plan comes to fruition.

Plans have been drawn up to convert the County Antrim arena into an all-seater stadium with a capacity of some 40,000.

Nelson McCausland, the Northern Ireland Sports Minister is set to presently provide the Stormont Executive with a paper that recommends the multi-million euro redevelopment of the ground as well as upgrades for soccer stadium Windsor Park and Ravenhill, the home of Ulster rugby. Under the proposal, the GAA, IFA and IRFU would all contribute financially to their respective projects.

"We have gone through a rigorous process, a very detailed process by an independent consultant, and it has now been accepted so it does stack up,"  Ulster Council president Aogan Farrell was quoted as saying by the Irish Daily Star.

"We wouldn't be in this game only we felt it's a development that's needed."









Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 10:57:11 AM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:16:30 AM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.

So, it would just have been as feasible for the Ulster council to redevelop Armagh athletic grounds or Omagh, it didn't have to be Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:31:36 AM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.

So, it would just have been as feasible for the Ulster council to redevelop Armagh athletic grounds or Omagh, it didn't have to be Casement?

Correct JC, the GAA were given the choice of venue and they picked Casement as the project.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:37:35 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:40:49 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.

Well I think there was a ground swell for a show of strength for want of a better phrase in the country second city. Plus a lot of work has already gone into Newry, Armagh, Celtic Park, Omagh etc So Casement being in the shape that it is in formed the logical choice for this type of refurb.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on May 23, 2013, 11:43:38 AM
I'd hate to get sitting behind that lad with the balloons.

Hardy, it's well nigh impossible to avoid balloons in West Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on May 23, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.

So Casement being in the shape that it is in formed the logical choice for this type of refurb.

Until you try to get parked, in or out of the place when there's anything resembling a decent crowd about the place.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on May 23, 2013, 11:59:16 AM
based on this independent consults report snatter mentions I presume.

So Casement being in the shape that it is in formed the logical choice for this type of refurb.

Until you try to get parked, in or out of the place when there's anything resembling a decent crowd about the place.

JC again this would have had to have formed part of the planning process of the best way to 20k plus people into and out of the stadium as safely and as quickly as possible with the minimum of disruption.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on May 23, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 23, 2013, 01:41:25 PM
Naming rights are up for grabs as well....'The Fusco's Ice cream Arena'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 23, 2013, 08:57:19 PM
I rather ther money been split against the counties to refurb their own home pitches or repay work already done. I know Celtic park needs to look at  anew stand at one of the goals with the team coming out from behind this, demolish the other end where the changing rooms currently stand and also built a new stand there, but no we go throw money into owenbeg building a stand there, instead of upgrading Celtic park to actually take a capacity crowd, not that we Derry fans need one.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on May 23, 2013, 09:20:15 PM
I rather ther money been split against the counties to refurb their own home pitches or repay work already done. I know Celtic park needs to look at  anew stand at one of the goals with the team coming out from behind this, demolish the other end where the changing rooms currently stand and also built a new stand there, but no we go throw money into owenbeg building a stand there, instead of upgrading Celtic park to actually take a capacity crowd, not that we Derry fans need one.
When has Celtic Park ever been anywhere close to capacity? Would be an absolute waste of money to spend any more on that ground.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on May 23, 2013, 10:33:18 PM
Saw in the Irish News today that the residents association are planning to protest at some games this summer.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ziggysego on May 24, 2013, 01:32:53 PM
I rather ther money been split against the counties to refurb their own home pitches or repay work already done. I know Celtic park needs to look at  anew stand at one of the goals with the team coming out from behind this, demolish the other end where the changing rooms currently stand and also built a new stand there, but no we go throw money into owenbeg building a stand there, instead of upgrading Celtic park to actually take a capacity crowd, not that we Derry fans need one.

That wasn't on offer though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on June 06, 2013, 05:22:17 PM
Point 3 is a very real issue but not related to the building of the stadium.

The funding is there solely for the stadium and TBH snatter is on the money on this one. Why are we hamstrung with the site at Casement if its going to cost as much for a hotch botch when there's the possibility of a fit for purpose stadium?
Did the Ulster council look at green field alternatives when it became obvious the IFA and Ulster Rugby weren't buying the joint venture out at Long Kesh or was it Casement or nothing??

The funding for the stadium projects were on the basis initially that there would be a shared multi use stadium. Once this had been rejected by the soccer dogs, the revised plan was for the 'refurbishment' of existing stadia to bring them up to date and modernise them. Plans were put forward on this basis, at no point was there ever funding going to be released for development of a brand new stadium on a new site. So that is why Casement was nominated and that is why Casement is the site, obviously there are going to be compromises on all sides, but these can be worked through.

Just to reiterate, at no point was there the possibility to develop a brand new stadium.

Complete tosh.

The Govt funding was for the development of one stadium, but there were no restrictions on the location of the stadium, or whether it should be brand new or a refurbishment.

It was the GAA's decision, alone, to choose Casement. Up until Oct 2010, most people had assumed that they would pick somewhere around Dungannon-ish, but they chose Casement instead:

Quote
"We have gone through a rigorous process, a very detailed process by an independent consultant, and it has now been accepted so it does stack up,"

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: babarino on June 08, 2013, 06:38:14 AM
Who could begrudge West Belfast a big investment? But the return won't happen for it's residents. A few pubs will have a few bumper days, but that's it.

People are saying that there was money there and why would you turn it down. The Casement project has been the result of years of running down Clones, through lack of investment and ongoing negative commentary on the part of the Irish News. Politicians took up the baton and lobbied hard for a revamped stadium in Belfast. The money secured could better serve the people of West Belfast in so many other ways.

Now that it's happening we'll be consigned to days attending matches, but so much of the fun will be lost. Two articles written by a Fermanagh man and a Tyrone man, highlight how the GAA suits don't get it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2010/0814/opinion/breathing-a-sigh-of-freedom-127775.html

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/06/07/more-than-just-the-game/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Rossfan on June 08, 2013, 10:47:32 AM
Do ye really want the B Specials back or what?  :o
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Onlooker on June 08, 2013, 11:51:56 AM
Thanks for those 2 articles, babarino.  They brought back great memories of Ulster Finals in Clones that I attended on many occasions over the years, despite the long trip from South Tipperary.  To me they were special days and up there with the highlights of the GAA year.  IMO it would be an awful pity if Ulster Finals in Clones were to be no more.  Good luck to the development of Casement Park, but it is to be hoped that St. Tiernach's Park remains an integral part of of big days in the football scene.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 09, 2013, 10:33:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: seafoid on June 10, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
Did Clones only become the venue for the Ulster Final when the "troubles " started ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 09:52:24 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 10:20:54 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 10, 2013, 11:12:24 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.

Hows that? The British Govt are giving 65 million and the GAA are stumping up 15 million for the Casement project. What I was referring to was putting the 15 million into the refurbishment and down-scaling of Clones.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on June 10, 2013, 11:55:12 AM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.

Hows that? The British Govt are giving 65 million and the GAA are stumping up 15 million for the Casement project. What I was referring to was putting the 15 million into the refurbishment and down-scaling of Clones.

The GAA had to provide 'match' funding for the project so therefore it had to be in the wee six and any money to be invested into Clones would have to be a complete separate fund from Ulster GAA.

The 65m wouldn't come without the 15m from the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 10, 2013, 12:06:54 PM
Its hard to fathom there's a south Derry man about who doesn't understand how Sports funding in NI works.

Did you miss Gooseys 'workshop'?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: OakleafCounty on June 10, 2013, 02:53:08 PM

Now that it's happening we'll be consigned to days attending matches, but so much of the fun will be lost. Two articles written by a Fermanagh man and a Tyrone man, highlight how the GAA suits don't get it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2010/0814/opinion/breathing-a-sigh-of-freedom-127775.html

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/06/07/more-than-just-the-game/

Two superb articles that hit the nail on the head. I have so many fond memories of Clones outside the stadium whereas Casement is in a suburban area with nothing to offer outside the ground. I don't think I'll be too fussed on going to Ulster Finals in Casement somehow.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: western exile on June 10, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Did Clones only become the venue for the Ulster Final when the "troubles " started ?
yes, The Ulster Final was hosted in Clones every year from 1970 until 2004: prior to this, Casement Park was the venue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on June 10, 2013, 04:42:58 PM

Now that it's happening we'll be consigned to days attending matches, but so much of the fun will be lost. Two articles written by a Fermanagh man and a Tyrone man, highlight how the GAA suits don't get it.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2010/0814/opinion/breathing-a-sigh-of-freedom-127775.html

http://ulsterherald.com/2013/06/07/more-than-just-the-game/

Two superb articles that hit the nail on the head. I have so many fond memories of Clones outside the stadium whereas Casement is in a suburban area with nothing to offer outside the ground. I don't think I'll be too fussed on going to Ulster Finals in Casement somehow.
While soaking up the pre and post match atmosphere is a part of the day, is the main reason for attending an Ulster Final not to go to watch the football finals?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 10, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
Did Clones only become the venue for the Ulster Final when the "troubles " started ?
yes, The Ulster Final was hosted in Clones every year from 1970 until 2004: prior to this, Casement Park was the venue.
Wrong and wrong. Clones has had Ulster Finals since 1905. Between 1940 and 1970 Clones had 18 Ulster Finals - in the same period Belfast had 7 (there was no 'permanent' venue). And Belfast had its most recent final in 1971.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: FarneyMan on June 11, 2013, 10:03:54 AM
Going to watch the football is of course the main reason most people attend a match, but this experience can be greatly enhanced by the atmosphere provided by its location....

I've always found Casement park to be severely lacking when it comes to “atmosphere”……..and this all new purpose built stadium isn’t going to improve things.
Casement is after all located in a city where the Ulster final will be viewed on as just another entertainment event. Stewards will be tasked with getting people in and out as quickly as possible with as little hassle and disruption caused to the already busy city life.  Whereas when it is staged in Clones it is an all consuming showpiece and takes over the entire town and hinterland making it more of a footballing festival than a one off event…..

An old picture of St. Tiernachs park before the redevelopment, the Hill used to be a some sight when full to capacity on a big match day http://t.co/K6EtDtfUvY

I suppose the decision has been made now but I will definitely miss Ulster Finals in Clones, and outside of my county making the odd appearance in the decider I greatly doubt if ill be interested in a day out to the new Casement for an annual event……
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 11, 2013, 12:04:06 PM
Jeepers Creepers lads, give it a chance. You never know, it might be good  :)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 11, 2013, 12:59:35 PM
Reading those articles and seeing the picture of the old clones brings back memories of the magic of Ulster Final, crossing the border and the sense of coming home for a catholic brought up in the North of the '60's. But times change and my kids wouldn't understand the head down mentality we had as kids in the 60's and 70's. Going to Clones was of it's time. More recently as an Armagh man I'd have preferred it to the Athletic Grounds as a home ground. But Belfast is the second city, GAA games are no longer the poor relations we are right to develop our own stadium in the Province's Capital (9 County). Clones needn't lose out either. It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues, where Clones could still play host to high profile games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 11, 2013, 05:28:29 PM
Reading those articles and seeing the picture of the old clones brings back memories of the magic of Ulster Final, crossing the border and the sense of coming home for a catholic brought up in the North of the '60's. But times change and my kids wouldn't understand the head down mentality we had as kids in the 60's and 70's. Going to Clones was of it's time. More recently as an Armagh man I'd have preferred it to the Athletic Grounds as a home ground. But Belfast is the second city, GAA games are no longer the poor relations we are right to develop our own stadium in the Province's Capital (9 County). Clones needn't lose out either. It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues, where Clones could still play host to high profile games.
All games at neutral venues? Are you having a laugh? Just watch the attendance plummet. And when would the likes of Ballybofey or Celtic park ever be used?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 11, 2013, 05:31:31 PM
The problem that i have with the development of casement is who is going to take responsibility for the upkeep of St. Tiernachs park. The ulster council have not given any indication of what they intend doing , Monaghan co board will more than likely move their county ground to blaney when their development is complete, Clones club are engaged in a new development of their own which is more suitable for a club to maintain plus there is no way a small club can pay for the upkeep of a 38,000 capacity stadium.

If it was done fairly. In my opinion a 30k stadium should have been built with the 60 odd million from the British govt. The remaining 15 million should have been put into scaling down and refurbishing Clones into a 20k stadium.

This was an impossibility for this particular investment.

Hows that? The British Govt are giving 65 million and the GAA are stumping up 15 million for the Casement project. What I was referring to was putting the 15 million into the refurbishment and down-scaling of Clones.

The GAA had to provide 'match' funding for the project so therefore it had to be in the wee six and any money to be invested into Clones would have to be a complete separate fund from Ulster GAA.

The 65m wouldn't come without the 15m from the GAA.
Never heard any mention of a match funding requirement. It's my understanding that the GAA has decided on the extra funding to build the stadium they want. There was no stipulation for them to build one with 40,000 capacity for example.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 11, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
Quote
All games at neutral venues? Are you having a laugh? Just watch the attendance plummet.

The highest attendances have been at neutral venues.

The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on June 11, 2013, 10:46:39 PM
Whiter than white white elephant.
Maybe one game a year with about 30,000. Maybe.
Rock concerts for the rest - locally opposed.
A monument to some ego in a dread suburban mishmash.
Ego project funded by our taxes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 11, 2013, 11:18:00 PM
Whiter than white white elephant.
Maybe one game a year with about 30,000. Maybe.
Rock concerts for the rest - locally opposed.
A monument to some ego in a dread suburban mishmash.
Ego project funded by our taxes.
Does any body in their right mind think that rock concerts will be held in an area where you are not going to have at least 50% of your market excluded because of location. It is one thing building this white elephant but it is the supporters and the clubs that will have to foot the bill for its long term upkeep.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 12, 2013, 10:21:33 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town

until you try to get parking anywhere near the place!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on June 12, 2013, 10:42:09 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town
Comparing this proposed development to croke park is a bit pie in the sky. As it stands you are looking at one possible full house in any given year and that is dependent on which counties qualify for the ulster final.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on June 12, 2013, 11:13:44 AM
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride, successfully used for Tennants Vital, Stormont Concerts and other venues. The Stadium looks amazing... give it a chance.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:29:12 AM
Quote
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride

Time for the wasters in Stormont to reopen the railway to Clones!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 12, 2013, 11:37:19 AM
Quote
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride

Time for the wasters in Stormont to reopen the railway to Clones!

Could we not just use the Ulster Canal?!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 12:06:15 PM
Quote
Could we not just use the Ulster Canal?!!

No. The Ulster canal has only been opened towards Fermanagh, an Ulster final venue really needs to facilitate Tyrone, Armagh and Down.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 12, 2013, 12:49:07 PM
Quote
Could we not just use the Ulster Canal?!!

No. The Ulster canal has only been opened towards Fermanagh, an Ulster final venue really needs to facilitate Tyrone, Armagh and Down.

I was only winding.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 02:04:30 PM
Quote
I was only winding.

Me too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 05:04:17 PM
What is it with the parking do people want to park their car at the front gate or something??? There are any number of places to park if you are prepared to walk a little with places like Boucher and Kings hall less than a mile away. Go to most of the top grounds in England and I guarantee you if you want to take your car to the ground then be prepared to walk a little. I think this could work and as for the residents I think they are being completely unrealistic looking at the plans I cant think of any other 40000 stadium that looks so low and yet they are worried by its height!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 05:14:31 PM
Quote
All games at neutral venues? Are you having a laugh? Just watch the attendance plummet.

The highest attendances have been at neutral venues.

The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.
Have you evidence that there are bigger crowds at neutral venues? Sunday's game is hardly a great example, but would you have had a bigger crowd if the game had been in Armagh?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 05:18:12 PM
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride, successfully used for Tennants Vital, Stormont Concerts and other venues. The Stadium looks amazing... give it a chance.
That's not really an advantage - you can set up a park and ride very easily - a field and a few busses is all you need, so it could be adopted for any GAA ground. Although I'm not sure park and ride is as appealing to a GAA crowd as a concert crowd anyway.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyHarp on June 12, 2013, 05:48:48 PM
Guys one advantage Casement has over Clones is the availability of park and ride, successfully used for Tennants Vital, Stormont Concerts and other venues. The Stadium looks amazing... give it a chance.
That's not really an advantage - you can set up a park and ride very easily - a field and a few busses is all you need, so it could be adopted for any GAA ground. Although I'm not sure park and ride is as appealing to a GAA crowd as a concert crowd anyway.

I mind going to games in the late 80s and early 90s at Clones, parking up at the Fermanagh border and utilising the very effective park and ride services provided by a few blokes packing 12 people into an oul clapped out Ford Escort, raking back and forward to the ground at about 80mph. I'm not 100% sure if they'd done their risk assessments though!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Leo on June 12, 2013, 10:30:48 PM
Whiter than white white elephant.
Maybe one game a year with about 30,000. Maybe.
Rock concerts for the rest - locally opposed.
A monument to some ego in a dread suburban mishmash.
Ego project funded by our taxes.
Does any body in their right mind think that rock concerts will be held in an area where you are not going to have at least 50% of your market excluded because of location. It is one thing building this white elephant but it is the supporters and the clubs that will have to foot the bill for its long term upkeep.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
Quote
Have you evidence that there are bigger crowds at neutral venues?

Armagh v Tyrone had 31,000 twice in a first round in Clones, when was the last time there was such a crowd at a first round game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 12, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
Quote
Have you evidence that there are bigger crowds at neutral venues?

Armagh v Tyrone had 31,000 twice in a first round in Clones, when was the last time there was such a crowd at a first round game?
That's the exception rather than the rule. And we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 12, 2013, 11:23:00 PM
I think Casement in January had over 20 thousand at a McKenna cup semi final with Tyrone and Armagh, I was at it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 12, 2013, 11:53:27 PM
Quote
And we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.

Exceptional perhaps, but you contended that neutral venues would reduce crowds, in this case it doubled it.

Quote
I think Casement in January had over 20 thousand at a McKenna cup semi final with Tyrone and Armagh, I was at it

You see the power of Tyrone and Armagh! Build the thing about Blackwatertown.
Not quite 20,000 I think, perhaps 18,000, but formidable all the same.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 13, 2013, 07:14:10 AM
Quote
And we don't know how many would have gone to Omagh or Armagh if they were big enough.

Exceptional perhaps, but you contended that neutral venues would reduce crowds, in this case it doubled it.
But that's the exception, not the rule. There's nothing wrong with having matches at a neutral venue if it's known that the home venue isn't big enough. But why, for example, would you have the likes of Derry/Donegal, Derry/Antrim, Antrim/Down, Cavan/Monaghan, Cavan/Fermanagh, Antrim/Cavan at a neutral venue for a first round game?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GrandMasterFlash on June 13, 2013, 07:20:56 AM
The attendance at Casement last week wasn't a great advertisement for home venues or the location of the uber stadium. In Belfast even the players are not interested in football.

And here's another exception.. Arguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park and probably thought they'd save their money for the semi-final!

And, why on earth would you want to play all games at neutral venues? Admittedly I haven't read too far back on this thread but surely it's part of the fabric of the GAA i.e. counties getting to play in front of their 'home' crowd? Donegal v Tyrone being the most recent case in point: I was delighted to see that the decision was upheld to play the game was in Sean MacCumhaill Parc and that the potential revenue did not cloud the better judgement of the Ulster Council.

The Tyrone v Armagh games of the early noughties were an exception and if the same set of exceptioanl circumstances arise again the same outcome will happen. I don't mind this as it is blue moon stuff...

Anyhow, I reckon the Casement Park redevelopment is intended for events other that football/hurling i.e. concerts, festivals etc.

I'm sure it has been mentioned on this thread already but given the political wranglings that have occurred to date I reckon this was last chance saloon for the sporting bodies i.e. take the money now lads and develop your stadia (i.e. Ravenhill, Windsor Park, Casement Park) or lose it as the sh*te is being cut out of this block grant we're getting from Westminster..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 13, 2013, 10:56:02 AM
Quote
Arguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park

The weakest county, i.e. the one that is going to be using this stadium most. As for the weather, no doubt if it had been raining the place would have packed. And you previously asked if there would have been more in Armagh for this game, there would have been more Monaghan people.

Quote
Admittedly I haven't read too far back on this thread but surely it's part of the fabric of the GAA i.e. counties getting to play in front of their 'home' crowd? Donegal v Tyrone being the most recent case in point: I was delighted to see that the decision was upheld to play the game was in Sean MacCumhaill Parc and that the potential revenue did not cloud the better judgement of the Ulster Council.


The "Home" crowd concept is most important in other sports where leagues are important or where there double legs. The GAA is as much about supporters mingling and people travelling to venues. Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.

In any case when this place is built in Belfast the Ulster council will have a sudden passion for neutral venues and every game with half a crowd will be moved there to try and justify the place, so perhaps it is just as well that Donegal got their game this year.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 13, 2013, 12:12:28 PM
Quote


The "Home" crowd concept is most important in other sports where leagues are important or where there double legs. The GAA is as much about supporters mingling and people travelling to venues. Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.


up until the qualifiers you never traveled outside your province to a championship game and everything after that is in Croke park.
At worst you'd be 2 hours traveling in a car. Taking the likes of the Donegal/Tyrone game to Clones just wouldn't make any sense as they border each other.

Now there's the likes of Tyrone traveling to Killarney for a championship game which puts a greater burden on the away support and no doubt affects attendances and maybe a neutral venue should be considered for these games.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on June 13, 2013, 12:35:02 PM
neutral venues would mean Pairc Esler, Celtic Park, Ballybofey would rarely if ever be used. Newry is one of the best grounds in Ulster and it never gets a championship game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 13, 2013, 07:48:02 PM
Quote
Arguably the weakest county of the 9 playing on the hottest Sunday of the year against a team who normally bring big support but don't particularly like Casement Park

The weakest county, i.e. the one that is going to be using this stadium most. As for the weather, no doubt if it had been raining the place would have packed. And you previously asked if there would have been more in Armagh for this game, there would have been more Monaghan people.
Actually it was me who mentioned Armagh, in which case yes, probably more Monaghan people but a lot less from Antrim. The biggest attendance though would probably have been in Clones, which obviously isn't neutral.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 13, 2013, 10:50:19 PM
Since you admit that there was potential revenue lost, then this acknowledges that the neutral venue would have had the biggest crowd, which was my point.

regarding your reference to the Donegal/Tyrone game and your response above to another poster... again, this is the exception and note the rule. You said: "It is time all Ulster Championship Games were played at neutral venues". I'd imagine there would be a negative impact on attendance in most cases. Also, potential revenue wasn't lost for the Donegal/Tyrone game because it wasn't at a neutral venue, it was because the home venue wasn't big enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: GrandMasterFlash on June 14, 2013, 04:06:40 PM
Which county board would benefit if all games were at neutral venues? The participating team's, the hosting county? Would it be split three ways?  :o

I really don't see the logic in hosting all championship games at neutral venues from any angle. As snoopdog rightly says, some stadiums would rarely if ever be used. There has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 14, 2013, 05:56:37 PM
Quote
There has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

It is relatively usual in the world for a stadium to be designed and specced for something that happens every two years. In fact, some aren't even full at these infrequent events.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 15, 2013, 09:18:47 AM
Quote
There has to some motivation for county boards to develop and maintain their county grounds and the fact that they'll get a home championship match on average every two years must be high on the list of priorities...

It is relatively usual in the world for a stadium to be designed and specced for something that happens every two years. In fact, some aren't even full at these infrequent events.
I think his point GMF was making is that if you move the games to neutral venues, they won't even get that match every two years.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on June 21, 2013, 05:58:17 PM
Not so fast !

Legal challenge to GAA's Casement Park £70m redevelopment

Ulster GAA chiefs are facing a legal challenge over the planned £70m redevelopment of Casement Park stadium in west Belfast, it has emerged.

Two construction firms whose combined bid for the contract was unsuccessful have launched High Court proceedings to try to re-enter the tendering process.

Papers were lodged on behalf of Lagan Somague, a joint venture involving firms from NI and Portugal.

A new stadium is to be built on the site at a cost expected to top £70m.

Most of the funding is coming from the Northern Ireland Executive through the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL).

The redevelopment forms part of an overall £110m investment plan involving upgrades to the Ulster rugby ground at Ravenhill and Windsor Park football stadium.

A legal challenge by local soccer club Crusaders to the Windsor Park proposals is ongoing.

Now, however, proceedings have been brought against the GAA's Ulster Council.
 
The case is expected to centre on its duty as a contracting authority under European procurement regulations.

Lawyers for Lagan Somague are expected to argue that they have been wrongly knocked out of the tendering process.

An initial hearing is expected to take place in court next week.

Earlier this month, residents living close to Casement Park held a protest before the Ulster senior championship game between Antrim and Monaghan.

They gathered outside the ground on the Andersonstown Road in opposition to the proposed new 38,000-seater stadium.

They are worried about the height of the stadium blocking out natural light and its potential use for concerts.

Work on the redevelopment is due to begin before the end of the year.

The work is expected to last for 21 months and be completed by 2015.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 21, 2013, 08:54:29 PM
Legal challenges on procurement decisions seems to be standard these days. This could significantly delay things.

Has the stadium got full planning permission yet?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Feckitt on June 22, 2013, 04:37:12 PM
With this legal delay on Casement, and some other legal delay on Windsor Park, is it completelely out of the question that the Maze Long Kesh site could be re-considered?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: illdecide on June 22, 2013, 08:01:19 PM
i was always under the impression that these Government Grant schemes had to be spent (or a percentage) within a timescale? maybe someone else would know better. This Casement plan seems to be more hassle than its worth with too many objections from residents and now contractors.
Scrap the poxy thing and the Windsor Park upgrade and build it at the Maze...when it's complete they'll fall over each other to use it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 22, 2013, 08:44:07 PM
oh too many contractor try to argue their way into getting successful contracts when u get outbid or passed out in the tendering elimination. more times than enough things have to be retendered and that successful contractor meeting with a counter challenge from some else or the previous selected contractor, its a bollacks and had to deal with it twice in contracts we done!this thing not get off the ground for ages, then a last minute legal challenge come from residents to put another spanner in the works.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on June 23, 2013, 06:35:03 PM
With this legal delay on Casement, and some other legal delay on Windsor Park, is it completelely out of the question that the Maze Long Kesh site could be re-considered?
Yes, considering the money for Ravenhill has already been spent.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on June 25, 2013, 09:25:59 AM
Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Ye wha?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:15:09 PM



Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Ye wha?
I mean that might give the residents something to actually moan about instead of constantly going on about the natural light being blocked by probably the lowest 40000 stadium on the planet any lower and the thing would be underground!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on June 25, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Yeah, it's dead easy when it's at the bottom of someone else's garden.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 07:12:42 AM
Yeah, it's dead easy when it's at the bottom of someone else's garden.

Buy a house next to a stadium, airport, brown field site etc etc then you are a bit naive if you dont expect any sort of development at some point. If someone is still living there in a house built prior to Casement park then they have my fullest sympathy the rest took a risk when they bought their houses so tough luck I have a lot more sympathy for those who bought a house in the boom and then for whatever reason the council has slapped a compulsory purchase order on it at todays prices.
I think the GAA have been more than fair trying to accomodate the residents by taking off part of the roof and making the rest of the roof transparent but it looks like no matter what they do it will not be enough. I do agree with most here that the GAA should have avoided these problems in the first place by just developing a new site!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 09:37:09 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on June 26, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on June 26, 2013, 09:53:33 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

Is the O2 not one of the biggest indoor arenas in the UK now??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: NAG1 on June 26, 2013, 09:53:38 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

The millenium dome is now one of the world's premier venues for events/ concerts/ conferences?

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on June 26, 2013, 11:07:31 AM
Quote
Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

It is not quite as simple as that, if you choose to live near a stadium then that has certain implications, given that most places do not have  stadium next door.
Likewise people who live on a through road and then campaign to have it made into a cul-de-sac.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 11:48:23 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

Pretty sure your christ the redeemer project wouldnt get very far with local planning whereas the upgrade of an existing stadium with all sorts of potential benefits to the local area may funnily enough get the thumbs up. People have a right to complain for sure but as I have already stated the GAA have already been quite open with the design process and have made alterations to benefit the local residents, I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved. I have not heard any moaning from residents around Ravenhill or Windsor - maybe they are being a bit more realistic about things. As for buying a house if noise or light was an issue then I wouldnt buy a house next to a site that had potential to be developed and a more realistic example you should have given is if a neighbour wanted to extend their house and if it was reasonable design then I would pretty much have to suck it up too whether I liked it or not
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.
I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved.

You see, this is where you are wrong. The residents association isn't sitting there and knocking back everything the GAA are offering to do. They are putting forward proposals themselves which mainly comes down to lowering it at either side.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 11:57:03 AM
Quote
Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

It is not quite as simple as that, if you choose to live near a stadium then that has certain implications, given that most places do not have  stadium next door.
Likewise people who live on a through road and then campaign to have it made into a cul-de-sac.
How is it like that? The residents are the ones who want as little change as possible.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 07:35:41 PM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.
I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved.

You see, this is where you are wrong. The residents association isn't sitting there and knocking back everything the GAA are offering to do. They are putting forward proposals themselves which mainly comes down to lowering it at either side.

Nice try as stated earlier for the intended capacity the design is already very low. The playing field at Casement is sunken and that will be kept with the new ground also the Andy town road end will have an unusually large stand to again reduce the height of the rest of the stadium. Personally I cant see how they can lower the height of the sides even more unless they start slashing the capacity (they already have taken 2000 off to help accommodate concerns) which Im pretty sure the GAA will refuse

Now there must be literally dozens and dozens of grounds in England slap bang in the middle of dense residential areas that have had no problem being redeveloped over the years and Im sure they cast larger shadows over a greater number of residents than Casement ever will.

Check out the scale model for yourself regarding height

https://www.facebook.com/casementpark/photos_stream

compare it to say this

http://www.favhdwallpapers.com/anfield-stadium-hd-widescreen-wallpapers.html

or this

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/acidmit/22516805/89499/89499_original.jpg

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 26, 2013, 08:56:19 PM
Have Liverpool FC not started a program of buying the houses around Anfield?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 10:06:29 PM
And in another great act of decency towards the Andersonstown community, the GAA has now closed Casement Social club.
Title: Ifreann
Post by: drici on June 27, 2013, 01:15:00 AM
No chances left Ulster Council.
Now youse can go to Hell.
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on June 27, 2013, 02:12:49 AM
I think people are missing the point of this discussion. The money is going to Casement end of story. What we should be discussing is what approach the GAA will take.

Will they do the right thing and build a top class stadium capable of hosting a wide range of events(small version of croke park)?
50 million is the amount from Stormont but several papers in the past have mentioned a budget of 100million for the stadium. If this was indeed the money involved then the potential is huge. To quote one of the above bloggers the stadium would be 40000 with 32000 seats and 8000 terrace - this is ideal. All those moaning about standing - well guess what you stand at the terrace, the vast majority of people like to sit and have the option to stand when they want! I would like to think that the whole stadium is roofed as the GAA seem to think Ireland is in the tropics and that it never rains - we need covered stadia even the terrace. The terrace should also be easily fitted with temporary seating if needed.
If done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
Another argument against the development is that there is no room around the stadium - you can say that about anywhere - look at the previous aerial shots of Croke - pretty tight fit. Most of the people oppossed to this development were probably against the upgrade of Croke or Lansdowne also and now look at the facilities there - pretty impressive not to mention the knock on effect such developments have on the local area and certainly West Belfast is crying out for investment

My greatest fear is the GAA will do the half hearted effort they have done many times  in the past. Take a look at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick for a modern stadium it looks like it was built in the 1920's not to mention again the fact that it has no cover at all - at least put a simple roof on - even somethng like the new RDS stand is better than nothing.
A similar GAA project at the moment is the new Pairc ui chaoimh. That project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -  :-[

Lets hope we have the stadium we need/deserve - interesting times ahead!

Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself

Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.

It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.

Ha ha reading most of these posts you would think everyone in west belfast was a hood. I never knew GAA supporters to be so snobish. Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra! ;D

All joking aside if casement is developed it will hopefully awake the sleeping giant that is Antrim and get the locals behind the antrim football team - a lot easier to go to Casement for a GAA match than the round trip to parkhead every other week to watch Celtic.

I am totally in support of Casement being redeveloped but a roof is a non-starter. The Millenium stadium is amazing but a GAA pitch is bigger and Im sure with a larger roof the costs will be exponential. The GAA sure cant even be bothered to place a standard roof on their modern stadia to cover the spectators ,(sports ground limerick for example) nevermind covering the whole playing surface as well.
If it was to happen the capacity would need to be on a power with croke park otherwise the roof would be too low and I would guess such a stadium would cost in todays money about a billion not 100 million rumoured for Casement so sorry lads forget it!


Anyone know when we get to see some plans? Does anybody know when work will start or finish. The same goes for the new Pairc ui chaoimh.


Bingo

I think a 40000 seater stadium in Belfast has potential if marketed well and opened to other sports in the future (doubt that will happen soon but you never know). I agree with you though that the GAA doesnt seem to have thought things out properly. Their other big project is a 60000 seater stadium in Cork (why so big)
The GAA should have maybe one high quality 35000-40000 stadium in each province and should have maybe consulted the IRFU years ago about joint ventures. The remaining stadiums should have smaller capacities but better facilities. Instead the GAA wants to builld 32 white elephants around the country with huge capacities but terrible facilities.
The perfect example of the mismanagement is the dump that is the ''new'' gaelic grounds in Limerick. Why build a modern stadium in the West of Ireland with no roof! Secondly Limerick isnt a big place so why didnt the IRFU and GAA agree to build one 35000 high quality stadium that would have been used regularly and been easily maintained (Thomond park is good but to me feels unfinished).
l

Anybody got any news, any plans? At this rate it will ready in 40 years time. The same for parc ui chaoimh. Why the silence?

Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong

Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.

I think the green area is corporate. The plans show the media area now to be up at the Andytown road end. Will they use all or part of the old one?, seems a waste seeing it was only constructed a few years back. I also remeber in the Irish news a couple of years ago talk about a footbridge over the motoway linking the satdium to musgrave parking to improve accessand paking etc but that has now been shelved. Posted a new thread on skyscrapercity on the subject feel free to add any other picures when they are released.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.


The redesign of Pairc ui Chaoimh has very few details as yet and evertime I read any plans they seem to change. Here are some early design pictures from a while pack but they dont really give anything away

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10604

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10603

The last I read the project will be completed by 2016. It will have a capacity of 45000 which will have 2 covered seated 2 tier stands. The ends will be left open and at the moment Im not sure if they will be seated or terraced. The project will cost 67 million euro which seems a lot considering the actual work being done (Celtic park only cost 40 million a few years ago and although not perfect is light years ahead of what is being planned here). It may be a missed opportunity. I think if you spend that much money you should have top class stadium

The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.

Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town

What is it with the parking do people want to park their car at the front gate or something??? There are any number of places to park if you are prepared to walk a little with places like Boucher and Kings hall less than a mile away. Go to most of the top grounds in England and I guarantee you if you want to take your car to the ground then be prepared to walk a little. I think this could work and as for the residents I think they are being completely unrealistic looking at the plans I cant think of any other 40000 stadium that looks so low and yet they are worried by its height!

Title: Meáncóg
Post by: drici on June 27, 2013, 02:17:51 AM
As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!

And coincidentally the GAA peoples' Club in West Belfast is given a closure date.
Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on June 27, 2013, 08:30:40 AM
Thanks Drici for posting all my comments and your point is?????
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DennistheMenace on June 27, 2013, 08:53:39 AM
Who received the profits from the Casement Social club?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on June 27, 2013, 09:25:39 AM
Who received the profits from the Casement Social club?

What profits??   8)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Lecale2 on July 09, 2013, 11:31:19 PM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 09, 2013, 11:41:53 PM
It is interesting in the other thread people proposing home and away open draw arrangements and the like. If the provincial setup is abolished then this stadium is a complete waste of space as Antrim would not 20% of its capacity, unless Celtic plays there.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on July 10, 2013, 08:18:33 AM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.

What club would buy the big concrete slabs for seating surely it would be cheaper and less hassle just to buy plastic bucket seats. The big question is what is happening with the brand spanking new control tower? Is it being shifted to another Ulster ground?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on July 10, 2013, 09:33:47 AM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.

What club would buy the big concrete slabs for seating surely it would be cheaper and less hassle just to buy plastic bucket seats. The big question is what is happening with the brand spanking new control tower? Is it being shifted to another Ulster ground?

yeah, its going to Corrigan park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Two Hands FFS on July 10, 2013, 10:17:01 AM
Is Casement closed for matches??
Title: Airgead
Post by: drici on July 12, 2013, 02:14:02 AM
http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903 (http://antrim.gaa.ie/news/details/?id=3903)

Closing down sale on at Casement. Get your offer in early for a bargain.

Aye - be good for people to get houses there and won't cost the likes of what is being talked about for the would-have-been-white-elephant-monstrosity to fix up Corrigan Park as the Antrim County Ground. Also the Antrim supporting crowds will reflect the arena there.
Bye Bye Ulster Council but as youse have admitted yourselves - youse were not contributing any money at all to whole would-have-been scheme.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on July 12, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
Who paid for the floodlights? If it was the Ulster Council, should the lights not just be moved to Clones?
Title: Greannmhar
Post by: drici on July 13, 2013, 01:29:59 AM
Do you know that if youse don't agree that the grounds will be sold for Social Housing?

'Well that would be great because we are social people.'

Class.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHywdqH3F6Y
Title: Scaifte
Post by: drici on July 22, 2013, 01:42:27 AM
31,912 of a crowd at the Ulster Senior Football Final in Clones involving the Home County in both Minor and Senior Finals.

Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
Title: Suimiúl
Post by: drici on July 22, 2013, 02:14:58 AM

 As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!


Make your minds up Ulster Council.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 22, 2013, 11:09:45 AM
This year all provincial finals, hurling and football, have been won by the home team. Antrim, the future is bright!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on July 22, 2013, 11:24:46 AM
This year all provincial finals, hurling and football, have been won by the home team. Antrim, the future is bright!

Antrim hurlers, club and county already avail of this luxury and have done for 20 years plus.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on July 22, 2013, 11:27:49 AM
If the football moves to Casement, the hurling should be moved to Clones, to balance things up.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on July 22, 2013, 11:31:38 AM
If the football moves to Casement, the hurling should be moved to Clones, to balance things up.

I played in a minor hurling final in Clones back in the day, due to a drawn game and IIRC a drawn senior football final, remember that the netting was too big and a slíothar could go through it.. 1989.
Title: Ádh
Post by: drici on August 08, 2013, 01:24:31 AM

And in another great act of decency towards the Andersonstown community, the GAA has now closed Casement Social club.



What a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.
Ah well - could happen to anyone.

Edit: some good news filtering through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on August 08, 2013, 10:09:51 AM
Ahahahaha.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on August 08, 2013, 11:11:14 AM
Quote
What a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.

Cast to the four winds. That;s tough, the Four Winds being in Down and it would be an enormous cultural shock.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 08, 2013, 11:49:03 AM
Quote
What a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.

Cast to the four winds. That;s tough, the Four Winds being in Down and it would be an enormous cultural shock.

And it also has windows, that certainly would be a cultural shock.

Although if you want to have a quiet tête-à-tête with the current ( I think he still is) Antrim football manager then the four winds is a good bet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on August 08, 2013, 12:05:24 PM
Quote
What a jolly bit of bad luck for the GAA Community in West Belfast - 600 hundred members one is led to believe - cast to the four winds.

Cast to the four winds. That;s tough, the Four Winds being in Down and it would be an enormous cultural shock.

And it also has windows, that certainly would be a cultural shock.

Although if you want to have a quiet tête-à-tête with the current ( I think he still is) Antrim football manager then the four winds is a good bet.
There aren't windows in Casement Park Social club??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 08, 2013, 12:08:58 PM
well if you call an 12inch high by 36 inch long hole above head height and barred a window then, yeah it has windows, but it certainly wasn't renowned for its panoramic views or natural light. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on August 08, 2013, 12:16:20 PM
Tell that to the boys who burgled it 3 times in the space of 2 months, breaking and entering through a window.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on August 08, 2013, 01:22:59 PM
Tell that to the boys who burgled it 3 times in the space of 2 months, breaking and entering through a window.

They must have pushed a child through and then opened the doors.

Was the place well insured?
How many sets of jerseys were nicked?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on August 08, 2013, 01:25:08 PM
Tell that to the boys who burgled it 3 times in the space of 2 months, breaking and entering through a window.

They must have pushed a child through and then opened the doors.

Was the place well insured?
How many sets of jerseys were nicked?
I think they went straight for the fruit machines, knowing what they were after. A number of clubs in the area were hit around the same time.
Title: Ceist
Post by: drici on August 19, 2013, 03:37:14 AM
Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium

What's all this about?



Drink.


Airgead!!!

Agus tá a fhios ag gach aon duine!!!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on September 05, 2013, 01:47:00 PM
Ulster GAA clubs have been asked to submit a letter of support for the Casement Park Redevelopment Project to the Planning service.

Correspondence from the Casement Park Stadium Board has been circulated to all club secretaries, at the request of chairman Tom Daly.

'It is vitally important that all those in support of this project put their views on paper to Planning Service, especially GAA clubs ASAP,' the letter reads.

The correspondence also highlights points to note regarding the key benefits of the redevelopment project such as improved health and safety; economic benefits; community/social benefits etc.

Individual club members are also encouraged to submit letters of support.
- See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/Monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=200256#sthash.hKWpBKcA.dpuf


Maybe if they had asked the clubs in the first place they might not be planning to proceed with this white elephant.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 02:09:40 PM
Do not do this! Object, object, object!

Stop bullying people, Daly, you utter fcukhead!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 05, 2013, 03:58:11 PM
Ulster GAA clubs have been asked to submit a letter of support for the Casement Park Redevelopment Project to the Planning service.

Correspondence from the Casement Park Stadium Board has been circulated to all club secretaries, at the request of chairman Tom Daly.

'It is vitally important that all those in support of this project put their views on paper to Planning Service, especially GAA clubs ASAP,' the letter reads.

The correspondence also highlights points to note regarding the key benefits of the redevelopment project such as improved health and safety; economic benefits; community/social benefits etc.

Individual club members are also encouraged to submit letters of support.
- See more at: http://www.hoganstand.com/Monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=200256#sthash.hKWpBKcA.dpuf


Maybe if they had asked the clubs in the first place they might not be planning to proceed with this white elephant.

Ridiculous. Once again aspects of the GAA resemble a dictatorship.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 05, 2013, 07:39:20 PM
I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 05, 2013, 07:53:29 PM
I agree if a club or individual has a problem with any aspect of the design then they dont sign the petition - simple really. Are the GAA and fans going to piss around enough over this just like the IFA to the extent that the funding is withdrawn you would almost think thats what some here want
Title: Seo
Post by: drici on September 05, 2013, 08:05:13 PM
I agree if a club or individual has a problem with any aspect of the design then they dont sign the petition - simple really. Are the GAA and fans going to piss around enough over this just like the IFA to the extent that the funding is withdrawn you would almost think thats what some here want

As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 08:51:09 PM
They have tried to bully residents. They have tried to bully social club members. Now they are trying to bully GAA members to back their corporate castle where our self serving bigwigs can suck each others dicks.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 08:58:24 PM
Quote
Now they are trying to bully GAA members to back their corporate castle where our self serving bigwigs can suck each others dicks.

Surely such a superior stadium will provide others to perform that duty.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 05, 2013, 09:20:45 PM
I'd say that had it been Man Utd building the stadium to play the odd match over here the same residents would probably be in full support
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
Just to be clear here - do people not want the redevelopment at all?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 09:36:43 PM
Just to be clear here - do people not want the redevelopment at all?
People have no problem with redevelopment. They just dont want what has been proposed.

Very lazy, Dougal.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:38:01 PM
Ah, just wasn't following.

Are there alternative proposals?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: The Raven on September 05, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Just to be clear here - do people not want the redevelopment at all?
People have no problem with redevelopment. They just dont want what has been proposed.

Very lazy, Dougal.

But its true
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 09:43:56 PM
And you know this how?

Do you even know who the most vocal of the residents are? They are GAA people. Ex-county managers, the president of my own club etc etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:45:37 PM
Is the major objection the size?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 09:46:42 PM
Is the major objection the size?
Yes.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 09:50:17 PM
Fair enough.

Is simply renovating what already exists the ideal option here - just barely increasing the capacity?

Seems logical. Why do they want to build a monster? Is there an obligation to do so?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:01:24 PM
Fair enough.

Is simply renovating what already exists the ideal option here - just barely increasing the capacity?

Seems logical. Why do they want to build a monster? Is there an obligation to do so?
It's a case of "here's the money, spend it". I believe that what the residents are proposing is not massively different to what has been proposed by Ulster GAA, albeit a smaller capacity.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:04:36 PM
Right - but surely the Ulster crowd aren't arrogant ogres and would reconsider - do you know what the alternative proposals are and why the Uladh crowd are opposed to them?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 05, 2013, 10:10:48 PM
Should never have been proposed for Belfast in the first place , no offense. Not exactly ideal location. Somewhere like Armagh in mid Ulster would have suited all counties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:14:38 PM
Should never have been proposed for Belfast in the first place , no offense. Not exactly ideal location. Somewhere like Armagh in mid Ulster would have suited all counties.

I've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that. Casement is fine as it is. A lick of paint maybe.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:22:21 PM
I think they proposed that they lower the height along one side.

Ulster GAA just want what they proposed and that's it. Residents mean fcuk all to them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 05, 2013, 10:25:17 PM
Quote
I've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:27:34 PM

Ulster GAA just want what they proposed and that's it. Residents mean fcuk all to them.

That cannot be true. They must have a valid reason (in their eyes) to override the concerns of residents.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 05, 2013, 10:36:29 PM
I absolutely hate going to matches in Casement and hope the residents stop  the whole process dead in its tracks. There is a great big empty car park in Anne St in Dungannon which would be ideal for it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:40:43 PM
Basically what has happened is, there was meant to be a national stadium at Long Kesh. Matches, concerts etc. They couldn't come to any agreement. Ended up that rugby took some dough to do up their ground, soccer took some dough to do up their ground and the national stadium is being forced into the middle of Andytown.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orior on September 05, 2013, 10:42:09 PM
Quote
I've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.

So using that logic they should move Croke Park to Athlone. I say keep it in Beal Feirste.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on September 05, 2013, 10:49:36 PM
Quote
I've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.

So using that logic they should move Croke Park to Athlone. I say keep it in Beal Feirste.

Difference being, Croker has been the National Stadium for over a Century. This is being proposed in 2013 not 100 years ago.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:50:41 PM
Quote
I've always thought that. Dungannon or somewhere like that

In a previous job I did  logistics analysis and Dungannon around the junction at the end of the M1 was pretty much the place to serve Ulster.

So using that logic they should move Croke Park to Athlone. I say keep it in Beal Feirste.

They should. Advantage Mayo.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:51:57 PM
Basically what has happened is, there was meant to be a national stadium at Long Kesh. Matches, concerts etc. They couldn't come to any agreement. Ended up that rugby took some dough to do up their ground, soccer took some dough to do up their ground and the national stadium is being forced into the middle of Andytown.

So the people of Andytown don't want it?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 05, 2013, 10:55:33 PM
No. The people of Moorland Park don't fancy having 'only 3 hours of daylight each day'.

Would anyone?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 10:56:32 PM
Is there a business plan for this new stadium available online?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 11:09:19 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 11:11:13 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 05, 2013, 11:14:10 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 10:39:58 AM
I agree if a club or individual has a problem with any aspect of the design then they dont sign the petition - simple really. Are the GAA and fans going to piss around enough over this just like the IFA to the extent that the funding is withdrawn you would almost think thats what some here want

As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!

Care to add anything to the debate?

The first post just confirms that people can sign a petition or not unless your 'GAA mafia' actually use physical force and threats to get what they want - do tell

The second post in its context was directed at people who buy houses next to a stadium and then dont expect any future development ever - little short sighted. If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.

Ps people saying the GAA just want to build what they want is a lie the design has already been altered with a loss of 4000 seats and a roof at one end but lets not let the truth get in the way of anything.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 10:54:54 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 11:03:28 AM
If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.
Had they planned on doing this when the 'shiny new stadium' was planned for Long Kesh? I hadn't heard.

Your comment stinks of "Fcuk the residents. If they don't accept this, we'll really shaft them."
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 11:13:33 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

The whole point is it will host the Ulster final which has been getting around 30000 (35000 this year I think), the problem which I agree with most is how often the stadium will be at capacity (Im hoping the GAA have thought this through, international rules, concerts etc etc). I think the GAA in general need to have a better plan regarding stadium, ie a number of smaller grounds but of high quality. The plans for Pairc ui Chaoimh are an example of bad planning - Lets spend all the money on one massive stand and then give the rest of the dump a lick of paint. If the Casement design can be reduced to 30000 and that suits the residents then great although I do feel some (not all) the residents wouldnt be happy with any proposal.

Agree about the roof it would make more sense in terms of lighting issue to remove it from one of the sides although personally a modern stadium without a roof is ridiculous so maybe reduce height by reducing capacity but put the bloody roof back on
Title: Re: Scaifte
Post by: hardstation on September 06, 2013, 11:18:33 AM
This year's Ulster final.....

31,912 of a crowd at the Ulster Senior Football Final in Clones involving the Home County in both Minor and Senior Finals.

Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 06, 2013, 11:22:16 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

I honestly think Hardstation is correct here, a 36,000 seater stadium is not required at the Casement Park site, The proposals do not have the support of the local community in the area and should not be forced on them. A local community center should be built with a number of pitches, handball courts and club facilities similar to many which are located through out the province. £5 M would make a right job of it and it would be a center for the development of Gaelic games and culture in the area. If you are going to build a stadium to service Ulster it should be located in a more central location within the Province and were the development is more likely to gain local support. For me Dungannon is probably the best location for such a facility. A very central location with easy access for all 9 counties. A town which is in much need of a regeneration and such a project would bring a massive commercial benefit to the area. The area is also seeped in GAA traditions and with the exception of the odd token unionist such a project would be welcomed with open arms.
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: JPGJOHNNYG on September 06, 2013, 11:27:08 AM
If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.
Had they planned on doing this when the 'shiny new stadium' was planned for Long Kesh? I hadn't heard.

Your comment stinks of "Fcuk the residents. If they don't accept this, we'll really shaft them."

Oh dear back to my original argument when you buy a house beside a stadium you really dont know what will happen, ie new big stadium built on door step or stadium sold for other development be it houses, a Tescos etc etc. It is a risk Im afraid and a fact of life Im not saying f**k the residents and Im pretty sure the GAA does not have the time or interest to 'really shaft them' Im just pointing out what happens to people all over the country its not just the Casement residents some call it progress others disagree.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: StephenC on September 06, 2013, 11:30:05 AM
Fcuk the residents. If they don't like it, they should be really shafted.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 06, 2013, 11:30:43 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

I honestly think Hardstation is correct here, a 36,000 seater stadium is not required at the Casement Park site, The proposals do not have the support of the local community in the area and should not be forced on them. A local community center should be built with a number of pitches, handball courts and club facilities similar to many which are located through out the province. £5 M would make a right job of it and it would be a center for the development of Gaelic games and culture in the area. If you are going to build a stadium to service Ulster it should be located in a more central location within the Province and were the development is more likely to gain local support. For me Dungannon is probably the best location for such a facility. A very central location with easy access for all 9 counties. A town which is in much need of a regeneration and such a project would bring a massive commercial benefit to the area. The area is also seeped in GAA traditions and with the exception of the odd token unionist such a project would be welcomed with open arms.

This money is specifically for a one off stadium development, not some centre of excellence as you suggest in the first part of your response.

The location of the stadium should have surely been up for debate right at the get go and according to the powers that be in Ulster GAA it was with the green field option looked at and Casement still came out on top. Not sure I believe that though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 06, 2013, 11:38:24 AM
So capacity is now down to 36,000? Is a stadium of this size needed?

I still have no idea what benefit the removal of the roof at the Andytown Road end is for local residents.

I honestly think Hardstation is correct here, a 36,000 seater stadium is not required at the Casement Park site, The proposals do not have the support of the local community in the area and should not be forced on them. A local community center should be built with a number of pitches, handball courts and club facilities similar to many which are located through out the province. £5 M would make a right job of it and it would be a center for the development of Gaelic games and culture in the area. If you are going to build a stadium to service Ulster it should be located in a more central location within the Province and were the development is more likely to gain local support. For me Dungannon is probably the best location for such a facility. A very central location with easy access for all 9 counties. A town which is in much need of a regeneration and such a project would bring a massive commercial benefit to the area. The area is also seeped in GAA traditions and with the exception of the odd token unionist such a project would be welcomed with open arms.

This money is specifically for a one off stadium development, not some centre of excellence as you suggest in the first part of your response.

The location of the stadium should have surely been up for debate right at the get go and according to the powers that be in Ulster GAA it was with the green field option looked at and Casement still came out on top. Not sure I believe that though.

Then take the money go elsewhere, knock casement, apply for additional funding for development of site at Casement a la Garvaghy (GAA HQ, Sports council, Belfast City Council, your women in sports & culture) and everyones happy, Ulster get their stadium, residence get a facility more amenable to the area. Whats the problem ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on September 06, 2013, 12:31:21 PM
No. The people of Moorland Park don't fancy having 'only 3 hours of daylight each day'.

Would anyone?

2 hours of additional day light for Mooreland Pk.  What's not to like?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 01:56:19 PM
Residents challenge GAA's Casement Park redevelopment A new 38,000 all-seater stadium at Casement Park is expected to cost more than £70m Continue reading the main story

A west Belfast residents group has launched a formal objection to the proposed new 38,000 seater GAA stadium at Casement Park.

The Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association (MORA) has given a petition and letter of objection to the Department of Environment.

Work on the stadium is due to start in early 2014, with a view to hosting GAA fixtures at the ground by 2016.

But the residents group said the proposed new stadium is too big.

They describe it as a "monstrosity" and claim it will reduce the quality of life of people living beside it.

But GAA chiefs said it would enhance west Belfast socially and economically creating an estimated 1,400 jobs in the construction industry and would bring "significant GAA events back to Belfast for the first time since the 1970s".

A spokesperson said Ulster GAA had been in discussions with the residents group since April 2012.

'Earliest convenience'
 
"Ulster GAA have listened and used the residents and other stakeholders feedback in the development process," he said.

"The GAA also compromised significantly on the design and capacity of the development following ongoing engagement with MORA."

The spokesperson said MORA had recently withdrawn from discussions with the GAA.

"While this is regrettable, the GAA wants to re-engage with the group at the earliest convenience to review the operational issues as part of the stadium redevelopment."

The stadium has yet to gain final planning approval.

The cost of the new state of the art stadium is expected to top £70m.

Most of the funding is coming from the Northern Ireland Executive through the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (DCAL).

The redevelopment forms part of an overall £110m investment plan involving upgrades to the Ulster rugby ground at Ravenhill and Windsor Park football stadium.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 12, 2013, 03:06:11 PM
Residents challenge GAA's Casement Park redevelopment A new 38,000 all-seater stadium at Casement Park is expected to cost more than £70m Continue reading the main story
I thought JPGJOHNNYG told us they had reduced the capacity by 4000??
Title: Re: Seo
Post by: qubdub on September 12, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
The second post in its context was directed at people who buy houses next to a stadium and then dont expect any future development ever - little short sighted. If the work wasnt to go ahead in Casement then who knows what might happen, nice shiny stadium in Mid ulster - sounds good to me, Antrim GAA relocated - not out of the question and god knows what placed on the nice new brown field site at Casement.

Ps people saying the GAA just want to build what they want is a lie the design has already been altered with a loss of 4000 seats and a roof at one end but lets not let the truth get in the way of anything.
What about people whose property has been in their family's ownership before Casement was built?

While we're not letting the truth get in the way of things, what are your thoughts on potential entertainment licenses being granted for the new stadium?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 06:35:03 PM
as i a said in the past, i rather have the money to do up the main 6 counties stadiums, or in Armagh case pay of the bills as they done there refurb. Celtic park would take 7 million to do it right. then we advertise for supporters to fill it lol
Title: Re: Scaifte
Post by: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 06:44:03 PM
31,912 of a crowd at the Ulster Senior Football Final in Clones involving the Home County in both Minor and Senior Finals.

Oh dear Oh Dear Oh Dear
The Ulster Final was a sell-out this year. Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements. There were no tickets available on the day or in the days leading up to the game.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on September 12, 2013, 06:44:44 PM
as i a said in the past, i rather have the money to do up the main 6 counties stadiums, or in Armagh case pay of the bills as they done there refurb. Celtic park would take 7 million to do it right. then we advertise for supporters to fill it lol
What about the other 3 counties, I realise it is NI gov money but surely Ulster Council remit includes those three? In any case I agree, I think most people would agree, but the money is for a stadium and nothing else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Maguire01 on September 12, 2013, 07:09:49 PM
as i a said in the past, i rather have the money to do up the main 6 counties stadiums, or in Armagh case pay of the bills as they done there refurb. Celtic park would take 7 million to do it right. then we advertise for supporters to fill it lol
What about the other 3 counties, I realise it is NI gov money but surely Ulster Council remit includes those three? In any case I agree, I think most people would agree, but the money is for a stadium and nothing else.
I believe the option was for one stadium and nothing else. But considering the Ulster Council is topping up the public funding, maybe they should build a more modest stadium in Casement and spread the rest around. I'm not aware of any match-funding requirement.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 07:15:19 PM
far as i am aware the money only cover the counties in northern ireland, but i think if there is not a refurb done, i am not sure if this money can be allocated to the other counties.

 I rather derry get £7million to do up celtic Park, scrap their existing changing rooms, built a stand here, reseat the terrance area running along side the pitch, totally demolish the terrace area behind the far goal, rebulit a complete seated stand here with tunnels running under for the team coming from changing rooms built under/rear of this new stand, Honestly think derry people prefer that to doing up Casement that may be full 3 times in a year.

At least Clones had 20+ pubs to drink in before the game, round casement there is 4 if your lucky
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 12, 2013, 07:30:24 PM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on September 12, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?
Beat me to it!!

Some lies there wildweasel......

This 'new' caseent pk if made will probably only, if at all full up only once a year if tyrone or armagh make final.

More than 4 pubs and anyway they suffice the four yer on about

The people in derry dont want celtic pk done up never mind anyone else

The ground at celtic pk is sufficint for what we have supporters wise. Sure owenbeg is less than half the size but it is.more loved already.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 07:50:16 PM
Owenbeg, love it to death since i was stuck in the carpark for 50mins against Sligo, have refused to go back to it since. the parking nightmare improve any round it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: theticklemister on September 12, 2013, 08:00:16 PM
they were looking to put a big black barrier there instead of gates last week.doesn't make a difference, I flegged this up before a game was played in owenbeg that there is only one entrance and one exit hence all the traffic problems. No such problems last week as all the dungiven 'fans' left wile wile early.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 12, 2013, 08:27:21 PM
well it def needs 2 exits one for the mad north derry crowd  going left the other for the uppity south derry lot hitting right after the game
Title: Scéal
Post by: drici on September 13, 2013, 09:36:48 AM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on September 13, 2013, 09:50:11 AM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 13, 2013, 09:51:11 AM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.
Oh, that's ok then.
I wonder why the residents have any objections at all.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 13, 2013, 10:39:07 AM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.


What about the American football ? Ulster rugby ? Soccer internationals ? Athletics ?


Casement will have to change its name first but all is possible.


Sprignsteen would sound good in the new Westminster sponsored amphitheatre. He says he's coming back soon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on September 13, 2013, 11:29:48 AM
A 38000 seater stadium at Casement park may be full 3 times a year??

WTF?

To be honest I don't think the sole motivation for this stadium is GAA matches. They likely see Belfast as missing a main outdoor stadium for concerts and the like, this will fit that bill.
Oh, that's ok then.
I wonder why the residents have any objections at all.

You can be a right b*llix at times. Did I say it was ok or that this justified the build or should put the residents as ease.
Title: Re: Scéal
Post by: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 04:49:00 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/standing-room-only-as-the-field-begins-to-narrow-1.1477382

if Health & Safety measures hadn’t reduced the capacity of Clones by 4,000 from what it was last year, we would have easily filled those as well.

“We had demand for almost 10,000 tickets over capacity for the Ulster final.”


You're welcome.
Title: Scéal
Post by: drici on September 14, 2013, 04:54:50 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/standing-room-only-as-the-field-begins-to-narrow-1.1477382

if Health & Safety measures hadn’t reduced the capacity of Clones by 4,000 from what it was last year, we would have easily filled those as well.

“We had demand for almost 10,000 tickets over capacity for the Ulster final.”


You're welcome.


No No - a link to the Health and Safety people - not a statement from one of them three hours of sunlight boys.
Title: Re: Scéal
Post by: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 05:20:41 PM

Capacity was reduced by 4,000 due to health and safety requirements.


Aye - throw up a link for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/standing-room-only-as-the-field-begins-to-narrow-1.1477382

if Health & Safety measures hadn’t reduced the capacity of Clones by 4,000 from what it was last year, we would have easily filled those as well.

“We had demand for almost 10,000 tickets over capacity for the Ulster final.”


You're welcome.


No No - a link to the Health and Safety people - not a statement from one of them three hours of sunlight boys.
I doubt they're online, but knock yourself out if you're interested enough to search for it. All I know is the reported attendance, the reported reduction in capacity, and the fact that I knew of people unable to get a ticket. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.
Title: Folamh
Post by: drici on September 14, 2013, 05:25:52 PM

I doubt they're online, but knock yourself out if you're interested enough to search for it. All I know is the reported attendance, the reported reduction in capacity, and the fact that I knew of people unable to get a ticket. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.


No link then.
Title: Re: Folamh
Post by: Maguire01 on September 14, 2013, 05:58:17 PM

I doubt they're online, but knock yourself out if you're interested enough to search for it. All I know is the reported attendance, the reported reduction in capacity, and the fact that I knew of people unable to get a ticket. If that's not enough for you, that's your problem.


No link then.
http://ulster.gaa.ie/2013/07/heat-and-intensity-anticipated-for-clones/
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 17, 2013, 12:26:13 AM
I think only a signed affidavit from the original source will do.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 22, 2013, 12:43:39 PM
Jarlath Burns' article from this weeks Gaelic Life. Discuss!!


LAST week, I had reason to wander round west Belfast and rub shoulders with the big movers and shakers in the Casement Park Project. Tom Daly is the chair of the development committee. A former chair of Ulster GAA, he was definitely GAA Presidential material, but decided at the last minute not to run. He has been working tirelessly, along with Ryan Feeney, Stephen McGeehan and many others, to turn this project from blueprint, through bureaucracy to building. I don’t envy their task. There are people for form filling, feasibility studies, hoop jumping and delicate diplomacy and I know my limits. This project, more than most, has required the skills only of those who would be prepared for the longest of hauls. Remember, the money was initially put aside for a multi-use stadium at the Maze/Long Kesh and the gut feeling of Ulster GAA people was to stay clear or bail out at the last minute. Thankfully, Danny Murphy knew what he was at and in a remarkable piece of skilled leadership, and tactics which would do justice to any poker player, he ensured that when that particular house of cards came tumbling down, the GAA were the last man standing. This left us totally entitled to our share of the cake when it would be divided out along the inevitable sectarian/sporting lines. And it was quite a large cake. £61.4 million which would be augmented by a further £15m from the GAA. A lot of money, and badly needed. It is easy to say that Ulster doesn’t need a proper stadium. One can point to Clones, to Breffni and the plethora of other smaller grounds that could adequately serve the needs of Ulster Gaels over the next ten years, but this would be to miss the point. Yes, we do have a lot of grounds, but nothing for the future, nothing which could evenly remotely be compared to Croke Park, the Aviva, or the premier league grounds across the water. Casement is also the obvious choice, in the main centre of population and factoring in the reality that a stadium such as this could become an economic dynamo in the middle of a much deprived part of Belfast. Believe me, there is no queue of developers waiting to invest in west Belfast, so when a gift horse arrives, you get on it. It was a penalty kick. A 21st century state of the art stadium built on the site of a historic ground with a proud history right in the centre of a GAA sympathetic population in Ireland’s second city. The road to get here has not been easy, therefore those in the centre of it deserve great credit. Creating a stadium in a built up area using government money is just about the trickiest bit of business possible and requires reserves of diplomacy and bureaucratic smarts of industrial quantities. It is also important to note that this money was earmarked for a stadium, not a series of little projects round the province, or debt clearing, or to fund centres of excellence, but a stadium. No stadium – no money. Simple as that. And it doesn’t help when the Ulster Council receives friendly fire from within that the money could have been divided into nine, or even six. That’s rhetoric that needs to stop. At this stage, every single hurdle, obstacle and barrier has been cleared, the finance is in place, the stadium design settled and every possible box ticked. It has taken its toll on the Ulster Council staff and the Antrim County Board, all of whom are exhausted by the challenges which have been put in their way to get us to where we are. And now some locals have reared their heads. Firstly the Casement Social Club and latterly the Mooreland and Owenvarragh Residents Association. If they get their way, there will be a judicial review and a public inquiry into the stadium design which might torpedo the entire project. This latest development is a sickening blow to the efforts of those who have spent the last five years of their lives attempting to get a 60 million cash injection into this area with a sustained job creation to come after. It is particularly hard to take, considering what this stadium suffered over 30 years of conflict and that for decades, the GAA was treated with utter contempt, under-funded and totally ignored by a succession of NI Stormont regimes. In the 70s the stadium itself was occupied by the British army. It would be a pathetic irony if our own people were to put the last barrier against what they call their own Association. It is simply incredulous that there are those who would want to torpedo the redevelopment of Casement Park. The very fact that social club drinkers should have any influence at all in the future infrastructural plans of the GAA in this province is almost laughable, it’s like something out of Monty Python. Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association’s main income generators. And while stadia plans everywhere require consent and co-operation from the local communities, this group of people are making arguments which do not stand up. Firstly they want the Ulster Council to sink the pitch a further twenty metres to reduce the height of the stands. The cost of this would make the entire project untenable and force the GAA to start again. Secondly, they reckon the stadium can be more compact if it is terraced instead of seated. In the modern era and considering future standards of stadium comfort, this is simply not an option. They do make a strong argument that there is no need for a stadium of this size because it would only be full on a few occasions and this is correct, but when planning a main provincial stadium, you start off with the needs of your biggest event and work back from there. Croke Park is rarely even half full, but it had to be built to the spec of the 80,000 who would want to watch an All-Ireland. Casement Park is no different. Stadiums of 15,000 are two a penny in Ulster, but you need a signature project to be your shop window and cater for your marquee events. The Casement Social Club has been a long term tenant of Casement Park and has historically passed on its profits to the Antrim County Board, but they should never hold a veto over the plans to rebuild the new stadium. The residents have a voice and deserve a hearing and to be respected, but this is a case of competing rights and the facts are that the large gleaming, beautiful structure which will emerge out of the west Belfast gloom, will help to regenerate the local economy and provide a much needed resource right in the heart of their community. It is understandable that the prospect of a high rise building in the vicinity of their homes creates anxiety, but this is the GAA, a community based volunteer led organisation which exists to serve the people and as such, deserves the benefit of the doubt. And Ulster GAA people should get behind this project also. At times I feel the response has been lukewarm. I remember well the arguments of the anti Croke Park lobby within the GAA back in the 90s, particularly with regard to the introduction of a premium level and corporate boxes. But these innovations have virtually paid for the stadium and continue to make it one of the top stadia in the world, as do the conference facilities which are constantly rated as the best in Ireland. It has provided dozens of jobs for the local people and having a socially responsible partner like the GAA on their doorstep has proved a real advantage to the residents of Clonliffe and Jones Road. The alternative for the Ulster GAA might very well be to move out of Casement entirely and sell the ground. God knows what would get built there. I hope the matter is resolved soon. It will require calm heads and lots of sense, but at the moment there seems little sign of either in the streets round Casement Park.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on September 22, 2013, 01:24:26 PM
I wonder what Burns was promised for going to bat for Ulster Council?

I always hear this point about "regenerating a deprived area", and Burns is at it too, Andersonstown is not a deprived area, plenty of West Belfast is a kip but Andersonstown isn't.

I was coming out of Croke Park after the hurling final two weeks ago and there were two Clare fans pishing in the garden of a resident of Clonliffe Road. Have every sympathy for residents around Casement if that is what's ahead of them.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 22, 2013, 05:52:55 PM
I don't think anyone on here is surprised to see Burns weigh in behind the GAA here.
The biggest ball licker there has ever been.

A number of points, Jarly, I know you read...

Who told you that the residents wanted it sunk 20 metres? And who advised you on the cost of this??
I ask because the residents committee only asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and DCAL could not provide them with costs of doing so as "costings had not yet been done". Stop making stuff up.

As for your opening about these 3 people working tirelessly for the GAA... 2 of them are well paid for it. It is not grassroots nor volunteerism.


Your tongue is for licking ice cream, Jarly, nothing else.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: CD on September 22, 2013, 06:05:32 PM
Really good article from Jarlath Burns. I totally agree with his comments re. the social club. I know lads who drink in it and wouldn't even stick their heads around the corner to watch Antrim play. They'd rather sit in the dark beneath the stadium and ridicule. They should have no say in this whatsoever.
I do have some sympathy for the residents, although it's ironic that their spokesperson John Crossey earned a living as a GAA employee and is now a most vehement opponent of the associations most important develpment in a decade.
I think it's crucial for the game in Ulster that it has a modern stadium that the GAA community can be proud of and it's important for Belfast, as the second city to be the location. Thank God the maze project never materialised!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 22, 2013, 06:23:37 PM
The vast majority of Casement Social Club members are huge supporters of Antrim GAA and the club has given a huge amount of money to Antrim GAA over the years. They were UNLAWFULLY evicted from their premises by bully boys Jim Murray & Frankie Quinn, an act that cost our county over 50000 pounds.

John Crossey worked as a coach for Ulster Council going around primary schools coaching hurling. He is not vehemently against the redevelopment of Casement Park but as I have previously said, wants it sunk 7 or 8 metres so that he and his neighbours could have more than 3 hours of sunlight per day. How dare he object....
Title: Suimúil
Post by: drici on September 23, 2013, 04:06:59 AM

Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association’s main income generators.


Above is not a quote not from Watty Grahams but apparently from a Luí na Talún show presenter on bbc, a person who makes some comments in between the commentary on TG4, a person who is sometimes interviewed at Half Time during matches on TG4, a writer of columns(newspaperish).
Watched the Bernadette Documentary on TG4 the other night and her 'curs and dogs' description of journalists but noticed the statements emanating from the Ulster Council recently with their spin and their coldness and these slurs and inferences that have suddenly and very recently appeared against the good people of Andersonstown(just read back this thread - don't believe that this is any coincidence).

Have a lot of sympathy for any person from West Belfast who So Called 'Ulster Council' would literally cast them into darkness with their plan.
They have conferred upon themselves the title of 'Ulster Council'no doubt in the hope that their self importance would be recognised by others but oh how they have let that title down.
Non 'Ulster Council' people who vastly outnumber the previous mentioned and who live within the jurisdiction have legal rights without the need to confer titles upon themselves. They also have vastly superior rights to having daylight in their area as opposed to strangers who would designate three hours of sunlight per day to them in order to milk their new found cash cow.

Oh how the world has changed.
(From a graveside oration which in hindsight seems addressed to the non volunteer side of Ulster GAA)
They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half.
The people of West Belfast seem to believe that you have done neither 'Ulster Council'.


visitors can't see pics , please register or login

For those who can no longer see.
Above is a 'tweet' from Silverbridge Harps GAA Club with a photograph of a drinks' bar being put together.
The message from Silverbridge Harps along with the photograph in the 'tweet' reads
'Looking more like a bar and less like pallets and plywood now'
(dated 10th May)


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For those of you who cannot see - above is a picture of a very large finished bar that must have taken a quare bit of effort to transform from the original 'pallets and plywood'
The message from Silverbridge Harps in the 'tweet' reads:
'And here's the finshed product!! All ready for the 1000 patrons coming to be entertained by Nathan Carter.
(dated 10th May)

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For those of you who cannot see - the above is a photograph taken from a long view to emphasise the bar's length and gravity.
The message from Silverbridge Harps in the' tweet' reads:
'Ready for the busy night ahead'

They must do some drinking alright in Silverbridge Harps - probably a great 'generator'(to quote J Burns) for the GAA side of the Club though.


Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association’s main income generators.



Some say Hypocrisy begins at home.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 23, 2013, 08:54:38 AM
It is particularly hard to take, considering what this stadium suffered over 30 years of conflict and that for decades, the GAA was treated with utter contempt, under-funded and totally ignored by a succession of NI Stormont regimes. In the 70s the stadium itself was occupied by the British army. It would be a pathetic irony if our own people were to put the last barrier against what they call their own Association.

Its the above quote that really grinds my gears!! As if by opposing the design the residents are somehow undermining everything the GAA fought hard for during those troubled years.

He also talks about the potential for huge reinvestment in the vicinity of the new stadium. Apart from the Croke Park hotel I havent seen much change in the streets surrounding Croke Park this last 20 years!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 23, 2013, 09:04:12 AM
It is understandable that the prospect of a high rise building in the vicinity of their homes creates anxiety, but this is the GAA, a community based volunteer led organisation which exists to serve the people and as such, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Can anyone explain what he is talking about here? A high rise building is a high rise building be it housing the GAA or the British Army.
Why also should the residents be giving the benfit of the doubt to a group who told them at the beginning that the structure would be no higher than the existing stand only to put forward a plan to build almost twice as high.
Why should the residents give the benefit of the doubt to an organisation who is clearly shit scared of an open and transparent public enquiry into the project?

Get up the yard, Burns.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 23, 2013, 09:22:40 AM
Quote
Above is a 'tweet' from Silverbridge Harps GAA Club with a photograph of a drinks' bar being put together.

The difference is that the bar in Silverbridge serves to support the development of the playing facilities, not obstruct development.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 23, 2013, 09:24:57 AM
Quote
Above is a 'tweet' from Silverbridge Harps GAA Club with a photograph of a drinks' bar being put together.

The difference is that the bar in Silverbridge serves to support the development of the playing facilities, not obstruct development.
And the money Casement Social club generated for Antrim GAA was for??

And I don't know how many times I have to say this, neither Casement Social Club members nor MORA are against the redevelopment of Casement Park!
Title: Re: Suimúil
Post by: johnneycool on September 23, 2013, 10:39:52 AM

Social clubs are not priorities for the GAA. They were, at best, questionable in their heyday and thankfully are no longer the Association’s main income generators.


I'd say Jar is pretty wrong here. There's plenty of clubs staying afloat due to the income generated from their social clubs.

My whole problem with this is the why now is there so many objections? Were these people not consulted at the initial stages of the project? Was it thought they'd be steamed rolled into it? By the looks of it the Ulster council with its letter to all clubs etc and now Jarly wheeled out have underestimated the opposition and to their cost.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: lawnseed on September 23, 2013, 05:34:21 PM
Just been outside checking that drici doesnt have a drone hovering round the place,  :D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:47:34 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 08:48:40 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen.
Utter bollox.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 24, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen. 

Lazy analysis rrhf!!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 08:52:50 AM
I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen.
They are. They even unlawfully evicted members of the social club to facilitate the project. That backfired on them though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 08:54:45 AM
The GAA needs a strong Antrim
What? As much as I'd like that, why do they need a strong Antrim? When was the last time the GAA had a strong Antrim and what was different? Why not a strong Fermanagh or Carlow?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 24, 2013, 08:55:36 AM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen. 

Lazy analysis rrhf!!!
May be simplistic, but it would sometimes appear that way. I'd put it this way the GAA needs a stronger Ulster. In a political context it would also serve as an icon of the Nationalist cultural identity in a city swamped with Unionist icons. Notwithstanding all of that the residents need to be on board. I suspect though as with the Croke Park residents who have been acting as advisers it is about what can be extracted from the GAA.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 08:55:55 AM
Its from the outside looking in Id admit, and Ill accpet the planning issues need resolved but some of the arguements propogated about social club rights etc, parking (when there is a stadium already there) and targetted people who have put serious effort in to get this this far being negated by the fact of whether they are being paid to do so, stinks of small minded anti progress mentality.  Its easy and a very Irish way to be against something but more difficult to be proactively for progress. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 08:57:31 AM
I suspect though as with the Croke Park residents who have been acting as advisers it is about what can be extracted from the GAA.
I think the residents have outlined quite clearly what they want already but you suspect away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 24, 2013, 09:00:38 AM
Its not possible and you know it, so they want something that stops the stadium.  The greater good is this stadium and It will mess about until it dosent happen.  Now you are an Antrim man, kids dream of playing on facilities like this, I tell you what if they offered it to Tyrone we would be taking it in the morning, but then again maybe we do have a slightly different mentality. 
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 09:06:42 AM
Its not possible and you know it, so they want something that stops the stadium.
I don't actually and I don't know how you do.

The greater good... ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 24, 2013, 09:09:35 AM
I suspect though as with the Croke Park residents who have been acting as advisers it is about what can be extracted from the GAA.
I think the residents have outlined quite clearly what they want already but you suspect away.
What they have outlined and what they actually want are not necessarily the same though.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 09:12:40 AM
I suspect though as with the Croke Park residents who have been acting as advisers it is about what can be extracted from the GAA.
I think the residents have outlined quite clearly what they want already but you suspect away.
What they have outlined and what they actually want are not necessarily the same though.
Let's just deal with what they've asked for please, rather than what you suspect.
You're throwing mud.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 24, 2013, 09:14:53 AM
Its not possible and you know it, so they want something that stops the stadium.
I don't actually and I don't know how you do.

The greater good... ::)

Hardstation,
 for greater clarity on this, can you (re)post the residents areas of concern and requirements?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 09:16:15 AM
They'll be on Nolan shortly and I imagine they will outline them again for themselves.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 24, 2013, 09:26:09 AM
They'll be on Nolan shortly and I imagine they will outline them again for themselves.

Not John Crossey on the radio, say it isn't so????  :D :D

I hope he can keep the expletive count down as his team talks would have been 5 minutes shorter without them..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 24, 2013, 09:28:25 AM
They'll be on Nolan shortly and I imagine they will outline them again for themselves.

Not John Crossey on the radio, say it isn't so????  :D :D

I hope he can keep the expletive count down as his team talks would have been 5 minutes shorter without them..
I assume it will be him but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 09:25:08 AM
Ironic that Crossey, a former County manager, is leading the opposition. Has he axes to grind against people in the GAA, outwith the actual stadium development itself?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: johnneycool on September 25, 2013, 09:30:09 AM
Ironic that Crossey, a former County manager, is leading the opposition. Has he axes to grind against people in the GAA, outwith the actual stadium development itself?

Not sure considering his last employers were Down CB and Armagh CB, neither directly involved in the redevelopment of Casement, he would be a regular in the social club though. He does live in Moreland park with his back garden facing into Casement, so he's directly impacted, not parachuted in.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 10:39:59 AM
Ironic that Crossey, a former County manager, is leading the opposition. Has he axes to grind against people in the GAA, outwith the actual stadium development itself?
Peculiar question. Seems to imply that the building of a massive stadium at the end of his garden isn't enough justification for him to oppose the building of...erm...a massive stadium at the end of his garden and therefore there must be some underlying issue.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 10:46:53 AM
Surely any Gael worth his salt, would willingly sacrifice his garden and daylight itself for the Association?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 10:52:06 AM
Surely any Gael worth his salt, would willingly sacrifice his garden and daylight itself for the Association?
WTF?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 10:58:47 AM
Crossey of all people, should not be a NIMBY >:(
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 11:07:32 AM
Sorry, have I been transported to Nazi Germany?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 25, 2013, 11:12:35 AM
Sorry, have I been transported to Nazi Germany?

There are many similarities between the GAA and the Nazis at times!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 01:09:35 PM
This is stupid.

You're not anti-GAA if you're against the stadium.

If anything, you're pro-GAA, because the current plans are clearly not the best way to spend a once in a century windfall of £70million.

The site is simply too small and constrained.

The big clue is the Andytown Rd stand with no roof.

If the site were bigger........ there would be greater distance from residents and we'd be able to get a taller building with all four stands having roofs.

If the site were bigger........  the budget would be enough to deliver a proper fully covered stadium. We wouldn't have to sink so many millions into underground concrete bunkers for car parking and ancillary facilities that would otherwise be built at ground level.

If the site were bigger........  the crowds could exit safely from the stadium and we wouldn't force the people of West Belfast to be held hostage on match days by closing one of Belfast's arterial routes, the Andytown Road. Or close down the new Belfast Rapid Transport system that is due to go down the Andytown Road.

If the site were bigger........  we would get the proper 40k, fully covered, fully seated stadium that this project was meant to provide. Not the 38k, 3/4 covered mutant that they're trying to peddle now.

If the site were bigger........  the long term running costs of the stadium would be cheaper, as we'd be able to hold far more non-sporting events such as concerts to cover future running costs.

If the site were bigger........  the stadium could be built using the near universal bowl stadium design that allows more bars, restaurants, conference facilities, etc to be built. Again decreasing long term running costs. The architects themselves have admitted that they couldn't do the optimal bowl design, or provide a roof at the Andytown Rd side because the site is too constrained.

If the site were bigger........  the deepest stand wouldn't be behind the Andytown goals, but would be in the main stands along each side, allowing more people to get optimal views, not substandard ones behind the goals.


But the site isn't bigger.....
It's time to take the funding elsewhere and build it on a site that is big enough.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 01:21:04 PM
Regardless of anything it appears there are those on here and elsewhere who dont want Casement to happen. I find it amazing that GAA people have mixed opinions on wanting to establish a landmark presence in Belfast at the home of its most famous ground, after the success of Croke Park. The GAA needs a strong Antrim as we need a strong Dublin and this stadium provides a focus point for excellence and development.  I also wonder about the Antrim county boards role in all this, they need to be steadfastly encouraging this opportunity to happen.

I agree that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast should be found.
Ideally, if Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls. 

Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement is ideally suited.
Politically a more neutral location, it would also attract more non-match day income.
It is much bigger site, allowing a truly exemplar design 40k fully covered stadium to be developed.
Something really tall and high impact to advertise the GAA and Irish dimension to our city.

It is big enough to allow crowds to exit the stadium and disperse without having to close neighbouring arterial routes. And closer to train stations as well.

Car parking and other ancilliary building can be done at ground level, not by building expensive underground concrete bunkers.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: cluaineois on September 25, 2013, 02:19:24 PM
Jarlath Burns remedy for economic deprivation in belfast is to build a stadium that the locals clearly dont want . While at the same time taking a major economic benefit from a deprived rural community. I look forward to his future articles about rural decline and its impact on Gaa clubs.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: T Fearon on September 25, 2013, 02:23:24 PM
I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Orchardman on September 25, 2013, 02:26:45 PM
I don't think anyone on here is surprised to see Burns weigh in behind the GAA here.
The biggest ball licker there has ever been.

A number of points, Jarly, I know you read...

Who told you that the residents wanted it sunk 20 metres? And who advised you on the cost of this??
I ask because the residents committee only asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and DCAL could not provide them with costs of doing so as "costings had not yet been done". Stop making stuff up.

As for your opening about these 3 people working tirelessly for the GAA... 2 of them are well paid for it. It is not grassroots nor volunteerism.


Your tongue is for licking ice cream, Jarly, nothing else.

Much as I think Belfast need's a proper stadium, I understand why the locals would want nothing to do with it and so wouldn't agree with everything burns said.

But this post made me cringe, fairly poor effort
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on September 25, 2013, 02:30:38 PM

I want to know what these residents were doing living in the social club. This economic hardship has deeper roots in west belfast than most places by the sound of it
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 02:33:23 PM
I don't think anyone on here is surprised to see Burns weigh in behind the GAA here.
The biggest ball licker there has ever been.

A number of points, Jarly, I know you read...

Who told you that the residents wanted it sunk 20 metres? And who advised you on the cost of this??
I ask because the residents committee only asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and DCAL could not provide them with costs of doing so as "costings had not yet been done". Stop making stuff up.

As for your opening about these 3 people working tirelessly for the GAA... 2 of them are well paid for it. It is not grassroots nor volunteerism.


Your tongue is for licking ice cream, Jarly, nothing else.

Much as I think Belfast need's a proper stadium, I understand why the locals would want nothing to do with it and so wouldn't agree with everything burns said.

But this post made me cringe, fairly poor effort
Your thread about the standard of Irish language in Dublin due to Coman Goggins' overuse of is docha was pretty weak too.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 02:47:30 PM
I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere

You're not looking too hard, or reading my posts.

Musgrave Park, 329 metres away from Casement.


As for the residents looking for money - if they get it now, they'd always be asking for it.

Why tie ourselves into long term blackmail opportunities every time we want to hold any concert or event there?

And it mightn't stop with just immediately adjoining residents either. How much compensation would the GAA be asked for when some mother can't get to see her sick child at the Royal because the Andytown Rd is closed for several hours to accommodate a match and there is gridlock.  The GAA would be walking into a PR disaster.

Far better to build on a bigger site, far enough away from residents and not be vulnerable to blackmail.

Like Musgrave Park.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 03:35:55 PM
Jarlath Burns remedy for economic deprivation in belfast is to build a stadium that the locals clearly dont want . While at the same time taking a major economic benefit from a deprived rural community. I look forward to his future articles about rural decline and its impact on Gaa clubs.

It's in the GAA's interests to build any new stadium closest to large centres of population in order to reduce the long-term running costs of the stadium.
Events like concerts and conferences are vital to get the money in. That's why stadii generally do best when located in cities, not in the middle of nowhere.

The marketing / profile rasing benefits are also much higher by putting it in Belfast.

The only thing they've got wrong is in picking a site that is too small and constrained. Admittedly, they were given a bum steer by some anonymous consultancy report in 2010, but surely they can see the sense in moving on to a bigger site Plan B.

A more politically neutral site like Musgrave Park would also raise more money for long term running costs, as it would be likely to get more conferences, events, etc from the Belfast business community who (rightly or wrongly) wouldn't consider the A'town Rd, a mere 329 metres away.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 03:36:35 PM
to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere
Can anyone post this article? I'm finding it hard to believe MORA have asked for this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 25, 2013, 03:45:52 PM
will it change your mind?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 03:49:18 PM
will it change your mind?
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on September 25, 2013, 03:56:15 PM
The article says Crossey "isn't aware " when asked about certain residents dropping their opposition for 20k
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 03:58:44 PM
Ah, I see.....MORA haven't asked for this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:13:51 PM
Has anyone allegedly offered the residents 20k, or is this
a. some residents chancing their arm, or
b. an attempt to smear the residents
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 04:19:28 PM
I would like to think (a).
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:20:21 PM
First off I can't see why Jarlath Burns has been brought into this, other than a GAA member giving his opinion, I don't see the need to brand him a 'ball licker'? Other than some personal gripe against the man.

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Bingo on September 25, 2013, 04:21:30 PM
Have a local election/ballot, simple Yes or No, majority wins.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 25, 2013, 04:26:58 PM
First off I can't see why Jarlath Burns has been brought into this, other than a GAA member giving his opinion, I don't see the need to brand him a 'ball licker'? Other than some personal gripe against the man.

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

Could a solution not be a single tier. 25k of higher spec (i.e fully covered) with the additional saving from a lower capacity you could incorporate a centre that would cater for arts, adult learning etc. To me it seems the GAA havent thought this through.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 25, 2013, 04:31:40 PM
I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation, which means they are effectively prostitutes, and renders obsolete all arguments in support of them, on this thread and elsewhere
Tony, not quite, what the article reports is that John Crossey is not aware of individuals reportedly willing to stop opposition for £20k.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:33:21 PM

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

I do see an easy solution.

Get talking to the Alliance, Sinn Fein and SDLP on Belfast City Council.

Tell them that we'd like to develop a genuine exemplar landmark 40k, fully covered stadium in Musgrave Park.
If necesary, the development could be on some sort of partnership basis.

Inform them that if the council can't provide the site on agreeable terms, then we will take our stadium development elsewhere, eg Dungannon.

Emphasise the economic gains that having such a stadium would have for Belfast, eg GAA events, International Rules, Concerts, Conferences and the Rugby World Cup.

If Alliance/Belfast City Council don't co-operate, then run a beauty contest amongst locations that would like the investment. See what we can get in return, eg sites, infrastructure, facilitating development, etc.





Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on September 25, 2013, 04:36:32 PM
The bottom line is this money is available to the GAA for a one off Stadium build. It is not available for Clones so therefore Jarlath Burns arguments are not necessarily anti Clones or anti rural development. But if the GAA doesn't take the money for the stadium it will end up elsewhere. There needs to be an accomodation with residents but they can't hold the association to ransom. If there is loss of amenity on behalf of residents which devalues their houses then they should be compensated sufficiently to allow them to either move or stay as they see fit.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 25, 2013, 04:43:43 PM
The bottom line is this money is available to the GAA for a one off Stadium build. It is not available for Clones so therefore Jarlath Burns arguments are not necessarily anti Clones or anti rural development. But if the GAA doesn't take the money for the stadium it will end up elsewhere. There needs to be an accomodation with residents but they can't hold the association to ransom. If there is loss of amenity on behalf of residents which devalues their houses then they should be compensated sufficiently to allow them to either move or stay as they see fit.

or, more sensibly, start again on a different site.

Take the money and build on a site where
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 25, 2013, 04:44:01 PM
Can the redevelopment go ahead without the residents' acceptance or are you talking about months and years of court cases?

If it can't be lowered to suit the residents then it shouldn't be built.

I can't believe all this wasn't discussed before Casement was even mentioned. (Unless the plans were radically changed in the meantime)

Bring her to Dungannon.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on September 25, 2013, 04:46:04 PM

I actually disagree with him and other proponents of the redevelopment. The residents are getting a raw deal should these plans go ahead.

The Ulster Council are also getting bad press but it is worth remembering the political pressure being put on them. Hard to see a solution of this that will satisfy all parties.

I do see an easy solution.

Get talking to the Alliance, Sinn Fein and SDLP on Belfast City Council.

Tell them that we'd like to develop a genuine exemplar landmark 40k, fully covered stadium in Musgrave Park.
If necesary, the development could be on some sort of partnership basis.

Inform them that if the council can't provide the site on agreeable terms, then we will take our stadium development elsewhere, eg Dungannon.

Emphasise the economic gains that having such a stadium would have for Belfast, eg GAA events, International Rules, Concerts, Conferences and the Rugby World Cup.

If Alliance/Belfast City Council don't co-operate, then run a beauty contest amongst locations that would like the investment. See what we can get in return, eg sites, infrastructure, facilitating development, etc.






Of course there is a lot of common sense in that post which is why I disagree with it!

My impression is that the money has to be spent in Belfast, or as close as possible. I also have a feeling that there is one eye being kept on the potential for concerts being held in the stadium (which is ridiculous). Hence it staying in Belfast.

Bearing in mind the GAA already have the site and are entitled to (apply to) develop it in whatever way they wish. I can't see Musgrave Park being a runner - there's also the added complications of bringing in another stakeholder i.e. BCC.

There are economic gains to be had hence the big push for it, but how these gains are benefited by the residents who would have to live in the shadow remains to be seen.

At the end of the day Stormont is providing the doe so they have the last say, I feel that Casement will be the site in some shape or another, more's the pity because it's such an ill-though out proposal!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 25, 2013, 06:40:02 PM
Can the redevelopment go ahead without the residents' acceptance or are you talking about months and years of court cases?

If it can't be lowered to suit the residents then it shouldn't be built.

I can't believe all this wasn't discussed before Casement was even mentioned. (Unless the plans were radically changed in the meantime)

Bring her to Dungannon.

It is certainly possible that it can go ahead against the wishes of the residents. That is the GAA's plan. The planners will decide.
The residents will go down every route possible to stop it though.
Title: Gránna
Post by: drici on September 26, 2013, 01:48:43 AM

I would venture to suggest that there's no site outwith West Belfast, that would be safe for the construction of a major GAA stadium in the City. Incidentally to-day's Irish News reports suggest that residents would be happy to let the Casement development proceed subject to them receiving £20k each in terms of compensation



Has anyone allegedly offered the residents 20k, or is this
a. some residents chancing their arm, or
b. an attempt to smear the residents


Well done T Fearon for highlighting how something can be put into the public domain without any facts involved but gives leeway to an agenda - hence your very careful use of the word suggest.

Well done snatter for asking the relevant question in relation to this.

Is this the start of a campaign to publicly slur the residents through newspapers and radio as a deflection from the Iconic Monstrosity cash cow with demeaning claims against the people of West Belfast themselves?

Could be but we'll all wait and see.

Hopefully the Ulster Council may be able to rise above grubbing about the floor with your man talking about it being 'overcast today' on the radio on Tuesday in relation to discussions about rights to light.

Title: Fosta
Post by: drici on September 26, 2013, 02:14:52 AM
Oh aye,

- apparently this story about the 20,000 smackeroonies was in 'The Sun' - (yes the  'paper' of the 'Falls Road Fenians' quote) on Monday with the story that one resident had put in a claim for that amount of compensation (apparently he is a very old man who has no grandchildren and says that his garden is of little use to him now - but no matter - he has a legal right to put in for the same)  but by Tuesday the Irish News felt able to put in their paper 'some residents.'

Yes - 'The Sun' carrying a story about no sun.





Ah Bernadette.
Title: Re: Fosta
Post by: Applesisapples on September 26, 2013, 10:00:00 AM
Oh aye,

- apparently this story about the 20,000 smackeroonies was in 'The Sun' - (yes the  'paper' of the 'Falls Road Fenians' quote) on Monday with the story that one resident had put in a claim for that amount of compensation (apparently he is a very old man who has no grandchildren and says that his garden is of little use to him now - but no matter - he has a legal right to put in for the same)  but by Tuesday the Irish News felt able to put in their paper 'some residents.'

Yes - 'The Sun' carrying a story about no sun.





Ah Bernadette.
Tony, not quite, what the article reports is that John Crossey" is not aware of individuals reportedly willing to stop opposition for £20k".
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 26, 2013, 10:28:35 AM
I certainly believe that there has been a clear and deliberate misrepresentation of one side of this arguement from certain journalist quarters over this last week.

Now, everybody is fully entitled to their opinion on this and can sit on whichever side of this particular fence they wish (I don't deny there are good arguements to be had on both sides) but the publication of false information in an attempt to discredit the other side is completely pathetic.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on September 26, 2013, 10:31:49 AM
Hardstation. What is the residents stance on the capacity/design/height etc??

Have they given a ball park figure in terms of capacity?

I still believe a single tier is the answer. Anyone who knows anything about noise/acoustics will know a single tier improves atmosphere!!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: orangeman on September 26, 2013, 10:33:57 AM
I certainly believe that there has been a clear and deliberate misrepresentation of one side of this arguement from certain journalist quarters over this last week.

Now, everybody is fully entitled to their opinion on this and can sit on whichever side of this particular fence they wish (I don't deny there are good arguements to be had on both sides) but the publication of false information in an attempt to discredit the other side is completely pathetic.


It might be pathetic alright. But isn't that how the GAA works ?

If the top table want something, they'll get ot by fair means or foul.

That was always the case - always will be. You can expect more of the same until this project is completed.

Residents will get looked after before it's all over.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 26, 2013, 10:37:00 AM
I haven't been speaking to any of them for a few of days so I'm unsure of any developments but the last I heard was that they have asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and asked DCAL to provide them with the cost of doing so. I don't think they have heard anything yet.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: J OGorman on September 26, 2013, 12:31:58 PM
On way the digger already!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 27, 2013, 02:09:36 PM
I haven't been speaking to any of them for a few of days so I'm unsure of any developments but the last I heard was that they have asked for it to be sunk 7 or 8 metres and asked DCAL to provide them with the cost of doing so. I don't think they have heard anything yet.
This place aint Pisa ye know.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 27, 2013, 02:19:30 PM
You talk some left handed ballix at times.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 27, 2013, 05:20:35 PM
I dislike naysayers and opportunists in equal measure. 
Title: Contráilte
Post by: drici on September 30, 2013, 02:53:17 AM
Jarlath Burns' article from this weeks Gaelic Life. Discuss!!

 This left us totally entitled to our share of the cake when it would be divided out along the inevitable sectarian/sporting lines.


This is horrible and totally wrong.
A sectarian stadium - only going by the quote above -  but people from outside Belfast have decided to cast a large close-knit community into darkness when they have a choice of sinking the pitch - so the height of the new grandstands comply with the same distance away from the houses and the same height as the only grandstand which currently is there now which the people of the area would be supportive of - and also at the same time as there is a large recently opened shopping centre in the very centre of Belfast which is below sea level because it has been sunk - but on the higher levels of Andersonstown where it would be such much easier to do so - there seems no wish on the part of these
opportunists 
to do so.
GAA people from outside Béal Feirsde seem to want(and it is an appearance - also read back on this thread) to 'sicken the Planters' by throwing people from West Belfast into coldness and darkness so they can milk their iconic and now - given the above article -  'sectarian' monstrosity major cash cow.
Cruel - Wrong - Morally- Intellectually - whatever words are on the go now.
This is evil.
You cannot justify doing this to people.
People are real - not how many hamburgers at 4 quid and pints at 5 quid and 'sure look at the fortune we're makin' out of them eejits.'
Back off and do the right thing.
Unbelievable.
Do not do this to a community.
Do not do this to real people.
It is wrong.
Sectarianism under any guise is wrong.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Do not hurt people.
It is wrong.
The whole concept of what is and has been put forward is wrong.
The forces of darkness in this case are wrong - why do they pursue?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on September 30, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: LeoMc on September 30, 2013, 12:53:29 PM
this is the GAA, a community based volunteer led organisation which exists to serve the people and as such, deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I was quite ambivalent about the whole project until I read Burns load of tosh. He doesn't say what people they are serving!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 01:05:31 PM
Time for the Ulster Council to cop themselves on and realise that they will never be able to develop a stadium in Anderstown without spending enormous time energy and resources on planning issues and a PR disaster to boot. Time to look elsewhere. Belfast is to much of a tinder box of secterianism and no matter where in Belfast outside of the West Belfast you will encounter objections and obstacles which will be put in place. Casement Park is a dead duck get it up the M1 to Dungannon, (I hear Ann Street is up for Sale by the Banks) were it should have been in the first place to service the needs of Ulster and not for soothing the egos of a few members of the Ulster Council.

I still think that any new stadium should be in Belfast, to
1. Increase the GAA's profile.
2. Maximise income from holding events such as concerts and conferences

A bigger site, somewhere in Greater Belfast could and should be found.

If Belfast wants the benefits a 40k fully covered stadium can bring, it should stump up some of the cost, eg by gifting a site it controls.  Like Liverpool have done with Stanley Park, or Cork have done for Pairc Ui Chaoimh.
Musgrave Park, owned by Belfast City Council & 300m away from Casement would be spot on.

Politically a more neutral location, Musgrave Park would also attract more non-match day income.
A much bigger site, a modern wrap around bowl stadium could be developed.
And no road closures would be needed.

Snatter. A GAA stadium in any location in Belfast outside of West Belfast would become a focal point for Loyalist nutter's for publicity stunts, parades and objections to flying the tricolour.  Embedding the GAA in unwanted controversy. I think the concert and conference argument is a red herring as any GAA ground will never be viewed as a neutral venue.

I think Dungannon should be looked at as a serious alternative.  The Area around Quarry lane right up to Anne Street is underdeveloped and would be ideal for a stadium of this nature. Centrally located in Ulster with easy access to motorway and numerous access roads from all parts of the province. It is also a historical center for the province and is located at the heart of a massive GAA hinterland.
Title: Re: Contráilte
Post by: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:22:50 PM
Jarlath Burns' article from this weeks Gaelic Life. Discuss!!

 This left us totally entitled to our share of the cake when it would be divided out along the inevitable sectarian/sporting lines.


This is horrible and totally wrong.
A sectarian stadium - only going by the quote above -  but people from outside Belfast have decided to cast a large close-knit community into darkness when they have a choice of sinking the pitch - so the height of the new grandstands comply with the same distance away from the houses and the same height as the only grandstand which currently is there now which the people of the area would be supportive of - and also at the same time as there is a large recently opened shopping centre in the very centre of Belfast which is below sea level because it has been sunk - but on the higher levels of Andersonstown where it would be such much easier to do so - there seems no wish on the part of these
opportunists 
to do so.
GAA people from outside Béal Feirsde seem to want(and it is an appearance - also read back on this thread) to 'sicken the Planters' by throwing people from West Belfast into coldness and darkness so they can milk their iconic and now - given the above article -  'sectarian' monstrosity major cash cow.
Cruel - Wrong - Morally- Intellectually - whatever words are on the go now.
This is evil.
You cannot justify doing this to people.
People are real - not how many hamburgers at 4 quid and pints at 5 quid and 'sure look at the fortune we're makin' out of them eejits.'
Back off and do the right thing.
Unbelievable.
Do not do this to a community.
Do not do this to real people.
It is wrong.
Sectarianism under any guise is wrong.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Do not hurt people.
It is wrong.
The whole concept of what is and has been put forward is wrong.
The forces of darkness in this case are wrong - why do they pursue?
Im not arguing with any of that..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 05:43:34 PM
Why build it in Dungannon, when Omagh is up the road? Plus, Antrim need a stadium so it makes sense to have it in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rrhf on September 30, 2013, 05:47:29 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: ONeill on September 30, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
The Ken Maginniss Park
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on September 30, 2013, 05:51:00 PM
No, the "naysayers and opportunists" have not asked for compensation.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 06:36:28 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 10:25:09 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on September 30, 2013, 11:00:21 PM
Quote
Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Would this new super stadium be like a Christmas tree, used for 2 weeks of the year?

If the GAA are prevented from building in Belfast by residents, they should donate Casement to the Travellers Housing association.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:22:43 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on September 30, 2013, 11:26:20 PM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on September 30, 2013, 11:33:20 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!

The whole project for me appears to be something of a white elephant anyways so if it has to be built why not at least make it accessible to the majority of the GAA public in the province rather than stuck in a city which has little interest in Gaelic games in an area where it's not wanted.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on September 30, 2013, 11:45:24 PM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!

The whole project for me appears to be something of a white elephant anyways so if it has to be built why not at least make it accessible to the majority of the GAA public in the province rather than stuck in a city which has little interest in Gaelic games in an area where it's not wanted.

A city with little interest in GAA... Hmm, sounds familiar. Maybe the GAA could throw millions into Belfast and get Antrim hurling and football to the top.

I agree to a point. If you're going to build an all seated stadium that would host Ulster finals/Rules/QFs etc, then a more central venue in Ulster would be better. Like Armagh/Dungannon/Cookstown or whatever. But every county has a relatively new 18,000+ stadium except Antrim. So it makes sense to kill two birds with the one stone, and put it in Belfast.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:00:52 AM
Dungannon
Centre of Ulster
Strong GAA town,
Good location
Decent Pubs
M1
The kings of Ulster..

And what happens to Healy Park? And where's Antrim county ground
[/b]

Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Healy Park is underused as it is. You'd have two big stadiums in Tyrone, with the new one being used only for an Ulster final. Talk about a White elephant!

The whole project for me appears to be something of a white elephant anyways so if it has to be built why not at least make it accessible to the majority of the GAA public in the province rather than stuck in a city which has little interest in Gaelic games in an area where it's not wanted.

A city with little interest in GAA... Hmm, sounds familiar. Maybe the GAA could throw millions into Belfast and get Antrim hurling and football to the top.

I agree to a point. If you're going to build an all seated stadium that would host Ulster finals/Rules/QFs etc, then a more central venue in Ulster would be better. Like Armagh/Dungannon/Cookstown or whatever. But every county has a relatively new 18,000+ stadium except Antrim. So it makes sense to kill two birds with the one stone, and put it in Belfast.

Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

The only questions I need answered is if Casement development dose not go ahead do Donaghmore have to give back their new seats ?

Did the Antrim County Board sell of the furniture a little early ?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 01, 2013, 12:13:56 AM
Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

St Gall's won the AI Club and got to the final another time. St Gall's hurlers reached a Club final too a few years ago. How is that not a good GAA tradition in Belfast? And that's just one club. It shouldn't be just Dublin that benefits from massive handouts, but other cities/counties too.

The Casement/residents thing is a different issue. It needs to be sorted though, but I still believe Casement will go ahead. It might just be later than expected.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: SkillfulBill on October 01, 2013, 12:41:13 AM
Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

St Gall's won the AI Club and got to the final another time. St Gall's hurlers reached a Club final too a few years ago. How is that not a good GAA tradition in Belfast? And that's just one club. It shouldn't be just Dublin that benefits from massive handouts, but other cities/counties too.

The Casement/residents thing is a different issue. It needs to be sorted though, but I still believe Casement will go ahead. It might just be later than expected.

Benny to be perfectly honest I hope it doesn't go ahead at all and certainly not in Belfast.  Why should people from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Derry, West Tyrone,  South Down and Armagh be expected to travel greater distances to Ulster Semis and Finals than they currently do. These area's are the heartlands of the GAA in Ulster and as such the location of their premium games should not be as far away for them. Add in the fact that Belfast is not the most welcoming of places for visiting GAA people particularly at the time of year these games are played. It just takesone bad year of marches before the Ulster Final is targeted for disruption.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 12:55:56 AM
Croppy lie down
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 07:18:13 AM
Quote
Healy park stays as Tyrone home ground and casement stays as Antrim county pitch.

Would this new super stadium be like a Christmas tree, used for 2 weeks of the year?

If the GAA are prevented from building in Belfast by residents, they should donate Casement to the Travellers Housing association.
Why?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 07:20:00 AM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?
Stop lying.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 08:02:49 AM
It's the truth I swear to God
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 08:15:43 AM
Right ok. Wait til a big windy day and chop it down.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snatter on October 01, 2013, 12:37:49 PM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?

If the tree is evergreen, and is one of at least a pair, then yes, you can force them to cut it down.
On the grounds of unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The same reasons why the GAA haven't been able to propose putting a roof on the deepest stand in the proposed £75 Casement stadium. The roof would have been too close to the apartments on the other side of the Andytown Rd, giving them unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The residents alongside the shallower main stands at the sides of the pitch may or may not lose an unacceptable amount of daylight depending on how transparent the transparent roof material is, and how often it gets cleaned.

But they'll definately lose visual amenity, having to look directly into the side of a building whose height  dwarves their houses and gardens.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: BennyCake on October 01, 2013, 12:48:46 PM
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 01:07:46 PM
Quote
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 01, 2013, 01:11:01 PM
Quote
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.

Would that not be just a case of poor maintenance of that gravel track which surrounds the pitch, causing water to lie as opposed to being lower than the water table??
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 01:12:41 PM
Quote
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Spare us the detail.... ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on October 01, 2013, 01:19:43 PM
Benny to be perfectly honest I hope it doesn't go ahead at all and certainly not in Belfast.  Why should people from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Derry, West Tyrone,  South Down and Armagh be expected to travel greater distances to Ulster Semis and Finals than they currently do. These area's are the heartlands of the GAA in Ulster and as such the location of their premium games should not be as far away for them. Add in the fact that Belfast is not the most welcoming of places for visiting GAA people particularly at the time of year these games are played. It just takesone bad year of marches before the Ulster Final is targeted for disruption.

The heartlands of the GAA in Ulster? Last time I checked barely two of these counties could field a competitive team at the Christy Ring hurling level.

In any case which country has the most GAA Clubs in Ulster? I'd wager Antrim would be nearer the top than some of these 'heartlands' that you list.

The fact remains that Belfast is much easier to get to with more methods of transport than any other venue. And I can't believe that anyone would be suggesting that Belfast isn't the most welcoming of places - how many times have there been riots during, before or after an intercounty GAA match at Casement? I can't recall one personally.

Which begs another question - why would you let loyalists determine how, where and when you play Gaelic games?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on October 01, 2013, 01:23:14 PM
Is it worth the bad PR to force it on the residents with out their consent ?
The GAA could spend as many millions as they like in Belfast it wouldn't make a difference at least Dublin had a football tradition to work on better spending in the glens.

St Gall's won the AI Club and got to the final another time. St Gall's hurlers reached a Club final too a few years ago. How is that not a good GAA tradition in Belfast? And that's just one club. It shouldn't be just Dublin that benefits from massive handouts, but other cities/counties too.

The Casement/residents thing is a different issue. It needs to be sorted though, but I still believe Casement will go ahead. It might just be later than expected.

Benny to be perfectly honest I hope it doesn't go ahead at all and certainly not in Belfast.  Why should people from Cavan, Monaghan, Donegal, Fermanagh, Derry, West Tyrone,  South Down and Armagh be expected to travel greater distances to Ulster Semis and Finals than they currently do. These area's are the heartlands of the GAA in Ulster and as such the location of their premium games should not be as far away for them. Add in the fact that Belfast is not the most welcoming of places for visiting GAA people particularly at the time of year these games are played. It just takesone bad year of marches before the Ulster Final is targeted for disruption.
Jesus you'd think there was no GAA clubs in Belfast  ::) It's not Beirut ffs.

You do realise, that if your county reaches a semi final or final that it IS NOT going to be played in your own county, so a bit of travel will be required to go and see your team!!!



Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: rodney trotter on October 01, 2013, 01:30:57 PM
Think he means Geographically situated. More mid Ulster would have been suitable for all Counties. more so for Cavan. But if it goes ahead in Belfast so be it.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: qubdub on October 01, 2013, 01:42:01 PM
Think he means Geographically situated. More mid Ulster would have been suitable for all Counties. more so for Cavan. But if it goes ahead in Belfast so be it.
I think the regional capital deserves a modern GAA stadium albeit I don't agree with the current plans.

That said I also don't agree the stadium should be moved to x, y or z on the grounds that it's close to a 'gaa heartland'. I'd say there's as many GAA clubs in West Belfast if not more as there are in most of these 'heartlands'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Walter Cronc on October 01, 2013, 01:48:23 PM
Are the Architects (on the advice of the GAA) being cute with their 2 tier design in order to accomodate corporate boxes?, which as we all know are the most important 'patrons' at any game  ::)
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on October 01, 2013, 02:46:31 PM
To say MidUlster would be suited for all counties may be true as the crow flies, but Belfast as the regional capital is the easiest place to get to from any given Ulster County. Not just in terms of cars but in terms of public and private transport.

I think, on top of this, that we will see a Croke Park style arrangement with concerts etc to be held there too because it won't make enough money to be sustainable on its GAA revenue alone. For example, had it been ready to go when that Cliftonville Celtic game was fixed it would almost certainly have been used in my opinion.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: armaghniac on October 01, 2013, 02:50:05 PM
Quote
To say MidUlster would be suited for all counties may be true as the crow flies, but Belfast as the regional capital is the easiest place to get to from any given Ulster County. Not just in terms of cars but in terms of public and private transport.

Nonsense. By  definition any place west of Belfast is more central.

Quote
I think, on top of this, that we will see a Croke Park style arrangement with concerts etc to be held there too because it won't make enough money to be sustainable on its GAA revenue alone. For example, had it been ready to go when that Cliftonville Celtic game was fixed it would almost certainly have been used in my opinion.

Have the rules of the GAA been set up to allow foreign sports in Casement?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: snoopdog on October 01, 2013, 03:45:30 PM
Quote
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Spare us the detail.... ;D
the first 20 rows of seats at Old Trafford are under ground level. I would assume Croke Park has something similar, i think it is the norm for most Stadiums
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Applesisapples on October 01, 2013, 04:08:24 PM
I think we should just return the money and let them spend it on building a new stadium for The Belfast Giants, the true ambassadors of sport in Belfast. Why would the biggest sporting body in the Province (9 County) want a top class venue in the capital city of that Province (9 County)?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: stibhan on October 01, 2013, 04:43:24 PM

Have the rules of the GAA been set up to allow foreign sports in Casement?

Give it time.

I don't understand the rest of Ulster being ambivalent towards a new stadium in Belfast. The second biggest city on this island should be given a proper stadium for the biggest sport on the island. Ulster GAA's primary aim should be to promote the GAA in urban areas and this would be a massive fillip.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 06:54:27 PM
There's a tree along the ditch in the field behind my house. Over the 20 years I've been here it's been getting bigger and is now causing a shadow over the bottom of my back garden in the evening. Is it okay if I cut it down?

If the tree is evergreen, and is one of at least a pair, then yes, you can force them to cut it down.
On the grounds of unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The same reasons why the GAA haven't been able to propose putting a roof on the deepest stand in the proposed £75 Casement stadium. The roof would have been too close to the apartments on the other side of the Andytown Rd, giving them unacceptable loss of daylight, and visual amenity.

The residents alongside the shallower main stands at the sides of the pitch may or may not lose an unacceptable amount of daylight depending on how transparent the transparent roof material is, and how often it gets cleaned.

But they'll definately lose visual amenity, having to look directly into the side of a building whose height  dwarves their houses and gardens.
It's an ash tree
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Kidder81 on October 01, 2013, 07:09:50 PM
The only way you would fill the new Casement would be to get Celtic to play Man Utd in a friendly, that would get the locals out in their thousands.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on October 01, 2013, 07:33:03 PM

How many of these houses were there before casement park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 01, 2013, 08:48:34 PM
How many of the residents were there before Casement Park?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 01, 2013, 09:43:33 PM
Casement has been there 60 years. In one of the reports I heard John Crossey said he was born in the house he lives in - 60 years ago.

Neck & neck.  ;D
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on October 02, 2013, 12:06:29 AM

Mr Crossey aside, i do wonder about the thought processes of people who buy a house to a major sports stadium then are surprised / irate when the stadium is upgraded
Title: Airgead
Post by: drici on October 02, 2013, 12:58:13 AM

These guys are governed by rules / laws etc.   


Do try to avoid making a large monetary donation to any political party currently in a  'ministerial' position regarding the outcome of the decision.

Oh Dear Oh dear Oh dear
Title: Seo Chugat
Post by: drici on October 02, 2013, 01:34:36 AM

Mr Crossey aside, i do wonder about the thought processes of people who buy a house to a major sports stadium then are surprised / irate when the stadium is upgraded

Don't just attack the people.
Rules say you have to not only take away the integrity of West Belfast volunteer GAA people but also the houses they live in as well.
Are you a proper GAA man or not?


'Designation BT 070 Area of Townscape Character Stockman’s Lane/Mooreland Park


An Area of Townscape Character is designated at Stockman’s Lane/Mooreland Park as identified on Map No. 4/003 - Belfast City and on clarification Map No. 4/047 – Stockman’s Lane/Mooreland Park Area of Townscape Character.

Key features of the area which will be taken into account when assessing development proposals are as follows:-
The Edwardian and Victorian two storey terraced and semi-detached housing of similar size and in single family occupancy. These properties are gable ended with slated double–pitched roofs, with some faced in red clay brick and some with pebbledash (Mooreland Park). They feature lean-to bays on the ground floor and arched gable flues terminated in brick chimneys;
The Art Deco stained glass, which has survived in some of the front room windows of the properties;
The two storey, hipped roof, white semi-detached villas located at the bottom of Stockman’s Lane, which are typical of the 1920s/1930s model built widely throughout the city;
“Colin View”, at Nos. 177-191 Stockman’s Lane, which is a two storey brick terrace and is more rural in nature;
The framed views of the mountains to the west from Mooreland Park and Stockman’s Lane, which rise towards the Andersonstown Road;
The front and rear gardens, characteristic of each house, with a variety of front boundaries, including some original ironwork, brick dwarf walls and privet hedges;
The trees at the western end of Mooreland Park; and
The wide asphalt and bitmac streets and footpaths.'
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Dougal Maguire on October 02, 2013, 04:57:00 AM
What in God's name is that about?
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 02, 2013, 07:23:56 AM

Mr Crossey aside, i do wonder about the thought processes of people who buy a house to a major sports stadium then are surprised / irate when the stadium is upgraded
I will say it again - The residents are not opposed to the redevelopment of Casement Park.

Someday, someone will grasp this.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: DuffleKing on October 02, 2013, 08:31:58 AM

Dont think anyone REALLY doubts that HS. Its about perception i guess. You may think th uc are losing the pr war here but theyre not among the GAA public.

The perception is that the residents want money and are inventing objections and push forward represntatives to perpetuate the whole situation.

Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: hardstation on October 02, 2013, 08:35:58 AM

Dont think anyone REALLY doubts that HS. Its about perception i guess. You may think th uc are losing the pr war here but theyre not among the GAA public.

The perception is that the residents want money and are inventing objections and push forward represntatives to perpetuate the whole situation.
There are none so blind......I suppose.

I don't think a PR war is going to be the winning and losing of this anyway. The law of the land dictates that.
Title: Cearta
Post by: drici on October 02, 2013, 10:49:48 AM

What in God's name is that about?


snatter would probably have the inside track on that but it does seem from the planners that the townscape/houses have acquired 'rights' according to their rules.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Croí na hÉireann on October 02, 2013, 11:32:22 AM
Quote
What's the situation about lowering the stadium? Can't it be done? Wouldn't it solve the residents issues with daylight? I was at Man City's stadium a few years ago, and the pitch is below ground level. Less wind that way too, so it'd be a warmer place to sit, especially in winter.

I was in Casement at the Ulster club final some years ago and the paths around the pitch were flooded. Lowering a pitch involves complex pumps etc.
Spare us the detail.... ;D
the first 20 rows of seats at Old Trafford are under ground level. I would assume Croke Park has something similar, i think it is the norm for most Stadiums

Croke Park pitch would be above the level of the railway, which is above the level of the canal, that runs under the Davin Stand. So I would say that Croke Park is at ground level.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 08, 2013, 07:29:39 AM
How many clubs in Belfast? In comparison to the 'heartlands' of Cavan, Donegal, and West Tyrone.
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: AQMP on October 08, 2013, 12:35:53 PM
How many clubs in Belfast? In comparison to the 'heartlands' of Cavan, Donegal, and West Tyrone.

There are about 22/23 clubs on the Antrim side of Belfast, approx. 25 if you include the Londondown clubs
Title: Re: Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.
Post by: Minder on November 19, 2013, 07:31:07 PM
Gaa defends Casement Park development plan



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24998165


The Gaelic Athletic A