Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

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bannside

Thats a fair question Nag. To be very honest I sincerely thought the last admin might have had some positive ideas on the subject, but obviously they didnt!

To their credit some forward thinking people from the hurling community decided themselves do get their own ball rolling. Maybe that all started from two or three people having  a conversation. Sometimes thats all it takes. A couple like Tony Shivers and a couple of the Mc Keagues can get a lot done.

Another admin set up is now in place, and we can only hope they open their eyes and see how much of a priority this now is. Quite frankly they need to acknowledge this without further delay

JimStynes

What are the hurlers doing and what are the structures they have in place?

Caesar

Are there any dual players who play for the county in both codes recently? Can't think of any but would be interesting to hear their view on the difference between the set-ups. (possibly Stephen Beatie but don't think he has been kicking ball for the county this year).

It's probably not as straightforward as saying both codes should get equal financial backing as the two are in different places at the minute, but you would expect the footballers are getting properly backed. Is this not the case recently? Or what amount of money will make a noticeable impact? And where will this come from? Genuine questions.

We need a big picture approach to football development including a Director (or sub committee) to oversee the progression. It's also important the next manager has Antrim's best interest at heart and is not just there to make a name for himself then move on.

imtommygunn

I would also say that the hurlers are up and down and this is a good year whereas last year wasn't. If what the hurlers are doing is to be deemed successful then IMO it would take a few consistent years before you could say that.

Definitely going in the right direction but it is one year.(Not to be negative - I think there is huge potential in there if everyone is pulling in the right direction).

I can't think of dual players offhand. It would have to be St Johns / Rossa / St Galls. I imagine Nugent was probably our last dual player? (Though could be wrong). The ones I remember are Nugent, Herrons, I would say McGourtys but I don't think any of them played for the footballers and hurlers at the same time.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 05, 2020, 09:09:55 AM
I would also say that the hurlers are up and down and this is a good year whereas last year wasn't. If what the hurlers are doing is to be deemed successful then IMO it would take a few consistent years before you could say that.

Definitely going in the right direction but it is one year.(Not to be negative - I think there is huge potential in there if everyone is pulling in the right direction).

I can't think of dual players offhand. It would have to be St Johns / Rossa / St Galls. I imagine Nugent was probably our last dual player? (Though could be wrong). The ones I remember are Nugent, Herrons, I would say McGourtys but I don't think any of them played for the footballers and hurlers at the same time.

Michael Armstrong most notable dual player at same time recently and could be again if injury free

Burkey played both for a period and CJ would have, but as you say not many at the same time, huge commitment.

Unfair to say the hurlers had a bad year last year as that is the most competitive division and championship I've seen for a while, every team has a chance of beating each other at time and that's been the case since its been introduced. This year we've had that run, which was in us, and we've been able to put together back to back results..

None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

bannside

#19730
Whilst no one will be more disappointed than Lenny that to date promotion to Div 3 has not been achieved during his tenure, I dont think he would hold up lack of finance as the reason. All the basic expenses were covered and players rightly had access to just about anything (within reason) that they needed.
So to be clear, this isnt a rant about that. In any event I dont think throwing a large pot of money at a problem is guaranteed to fix it anyway.

A far bigger priority is agreeing the formation of some kind of body or group to oversee the deliverance of a multi faceted programme that should facilitate any ambition that we aspire to. If thats a decade off, so be it,  but at least the seeds would be sown.

Much of the good work in hurling is going on quietly behind the scenes. Neil Peden (director of hurling) has a support structure he knows he can rely on. He has been tasked with overseeing a programme in the knowledge that if it hits its key targets, it will receive all the financial support it needs. The businessmen behind it will readily go that far if necessary.....because they have access to that vision...possibly even helped to shape it...and have confidence that it can be delivered. They are buying in.

Sadly there remains no vision for football. No plan. No director of football or sub committee. No joined up programme. Whos coaching the coaches and allowing them to share and participate in a vision?  Who is sourcing the elite players that we really need to be investing in?  Who is overseeing their S&C requirements? Who is tasked with selling a vision to half a dozen backers?

The answer is....no one. And it gets even worse.

IF Lenny steps down this weekend, or the match after that, who is tasked to find his replacement? Who will be qualified to evaluate the necessary credentials. What is the process. Is there even a process? Does it go to the clubs? Should it go to the clubs? Do the clubs even actually care?

Antrim Football is a mile away from where it needs to be.....but let us be brutally honest....entrenched in Div 4 is exactly where it deserves to be! It has been let down by county management committee time after time, year after year.

Please can someone within the present regime stand up and make a case for football.  Because if they don't we will still be having this conversation in another 10 years.

Or just forget about Casement Pk until we have a plan to put out a football team there that will do that project justice and attract a proper crowd to support it. Imagine a fine stadium like that and all the young lads walking past it saying who wants to play for that rubbish outfit!!

Surely thats a far bigger priority...because without pride there is nothing!

JimStynes

I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

JimStynes

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..

Is hurling not very different in that it is only played seriously by a few counties whereas football is taken serious enough by most counties. The divisions in football would be a lot more competitive than the hurling divisions.

marty34

Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..

Is hurling not very different in that it is only played seriously by a few counties whereas football is taken serious enough by most counties. The divisions in football would be a lot more competitive than the hurling divisions.

Define taken seriously.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..

Is hurling not very different in that it is only played seriously by a few counties whereas football is taken serious enough by most counties. The divisions in football would be a lot more competitive than the hurling divisions.

Seriously? So we take Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal out of the mix, who's taking it seriously in the other counties?

That's a serious question
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

JimStynes

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..

Is hurling not very different in that it is only played seriously by a few counties whereas football is taken serious enough by most counties. The divisions in football would be a lot more competitive than the hurling divisions.

Seriously? So we take Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal out of the mix, who's taking it seriously in the other counties?

That's a serious question

Maybe the phrase 'taking it seriously' wasn't the best way to word that but I had always thought, in terms of playing numbers and clubs, Gaelic football is the most popular, especially in Ulster, Leinster and Connaught. Maybe 7 counties would have hurling as their number 1 sport and then another 3/4 would have an even split (Galway for example) The thing that hurling seems to have done well, is put all the teams of equal ability together.

Back to my original question though, what is the hurling doing so well? Are they winning at underage? What are these structures that they have in place that the footballers don't? I heard this at a match last year as well and asked what the hurlers are doing differently and no one knew. It seems to be a big secret. I'm assuming they're getting more money pumped in? Are they getting access to better coaches and training methods?

bannside

There would be a support group led by a couple of influential businessmen who are helping to bring Antrim hurling forward. For sure they also have a long road to travel, but they are getting their house in order. Yes they might go up a division next year and struggle, but are expecting to make incremental progress in the coming years.

In any case we shouldnt even be comparing our lot to that of our hurlers. We arnt in competition with them. Is it really too much to expect our county officials to have some vision for football?? After all these years we still do not have a structured plan!

How hard would it be to put in place a sub group within the county and task them with the job of making our county teams at all age groups much more competitive by the time the new Casement Park opens and build on from that.

delgany

Quote from: JimStynes on November 06, 2020, 05:47:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..

Is hurling not very different in that it is only played seriously by a few counties whereas football is taken serious enough by most counties. The divisions in football would be a lot more competitive than the hurling divisions.

Seriously? So we take Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal out of the mix, who's taking it seriously in the other counties?

That's a serious question

Maybe the phrase 'taking it seriously' wasn't the best way to word that but I had always thought, in terms of playing numbers and clubs, Gaelic football is the most popular, especially in Ulster, Leinster and Connaught. Maybe 7 counties would have hurling as their number 1 sport and then another 3/4 would have an even split (Galway for example) The thing that hurling seems to have done well, is put all the teams of equal ability together.

Back to my original question though, what is the hurling doing so well? Are they winning at underage? What are these structures that they have in place that the footballers don't? I heard this at a match last year as well and asked what the hurlers are doing differently and no one knew. It seems to be a big secret. I'm assuming they're getting more money pumped in? Are they getting access to better coaches and training methods?

Multiple factors

Darren Gleeson - serious coaching ability - outside manager- player buy-in, quality of the SHC, round Robin this year. Director of hurling with an overall plan and seems to be additional financial backing from donors

Football doesn't have all of those additional factors

marty34

Quote from: delgany on November 06, 2020, 07:04:01 AM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 06, 2020, 05:47:11 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 11:29:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 10:23:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 05, 2020, 10:05:58 PM
Quote from: JimStynes on November 05, 2020, 09:47:20 PM
I still don't understand what the hurlers are doing that is so good? What is it that is so good that they're doing? Are they still not well off the pace and no where near the top teams? My lack of knowledge of hurling in the county is limited so I'm asking genuine questions here, not having a go.

Is there a full time S&C coach and S&C facility in the county? If not, then that would be a worthwhile investment. I can't believe the money that was spent at dunsilly, doesn't include a gym and floodlights.

If there are 4 hurling divisions and one team is in the second division (1b) then that's progress from being division 2.

If you are in division 4 and can't get out of that league then you're not doing as well.

Unless some people think div 4 football is better than div 1b hurling that is .

The problem football has is it's not tiered, the point of Antrim and Sligo Waterford and teams like that competing for Sam is very strange..

Is hurling not very different in that it is only played seriously by a few counties whereas football is taken serious enough by most counties. The divisions in football would be a lot more competitive than the hurling divisions.

Seriously? So we take Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal out of the mix, who's taking it seriously in the other counties?

That's a serious question

Maybe the phrase 'taking it seriously' wasn't the best way to word that but I had always thought, in terms of playing numbers and clubs, Gaelic football is the most popular, especially in Ulster, Leinster and Connaught. Maybe 7 counties would have hurling as their number 1 sport and then another 3/4 would have an even split (Galway for example) The thing that hurling seems to have done well, is put all the teams of equal ability together.

Back to my original question though, what is the hurling doing so well? Are they winning at underage? What are these structures that they have in place that the footballers don't? I heard this at a match last year as well and asked what the hurlers are doing differently and no one knew. It seems to be a big secret. I'm assuming they're getting more money pumped in? Are they getting access to better coaches and training methods?

Multiple factors

Darren Gleeson - serious coaching ability - outside manager- player buy-in, quality of the SHC, round Robin this year. Director of hurling with an overall plan and seems to be additional financial backing from donors

Football doesn't have all of those additional factors

But this didn't happen overnight. This has been a process to get Antrim to this point.

Key for me is the underage talent coming through this past 5 years say, through the clubs e.g. Dunloy.