The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[muppet]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

Ah right, a big conspiracy. That auld fecker Satan again is it? Or is it Santa?

You continue to inflict your views on others, in doing so persecuting them, on the basis of what?

[The Iceman]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

What's wrong with it?

Why can't anyone address my points or answer my questions? I'm held at gunpoint sometimes on here for not answering questions. I give my opinion, i back it up and pose questions as follow up.... and just get more questions......stinks of mob mentality...

[muppet]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

What's wrong with it?

Why can't anyone address my points or answer my questions? I'm held at gunpoint sometimes on here for not answering questions. I give my opinion, i back it up and pose questions as follow up.... and just get more questions......stinks of mob mentality...

Let me get this right.

YOU are claiming persecution!

[J70]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

What's wrong with it?

Why can't anyone address my points or answer my questions? I'm held at gunpoint sometimes on here for not answering questions. I give my opinion, i back it up and pose questions as follow up.... and just get more questions......stinks of mob mentality...

If you have a question for me, ask it.

In the meantime,  I await your answer to mine.

[The Iceman]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

What's wrong with it?

Why can't anyone address my points or answer my questions? I'm held at gunpoint sometimes on here for not answering questions. I give my opinion, i back it up and pose questions as follow up.... and just get more questions......stinks of mob mentality...

Let me get this right.

YOU are claiming persecution!

I didn't know I had to address every poster by name. I thought this was a discussion. Surely if you are part of it you would attempt to answer questions, not just pose them J70??

No muppet I'm not, I'm asking you to address my points and questions instead of ducking and weaving and throwing your own....

[muppet]

What questions?

Was this one of them:

Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women?

It is a fairly loaded question isn't it? And it misses the point.

But to answer it, I would think the answer is no. The Law usually doesn't force clubs, societies or religions to break their own rules as long as they follow them in a fair and transparent way. In fact religions have extraordinary legal protections in most countries.

What other questions did you ask?

[The Iceman]

What questions?

Was this one of them:

Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women?

It is a fairly loaded question isn't it? And it misses the point.

But to answer it, I would think the answer is no. The Law usually doesn't force clubs, societies or religions to break their own rules as long as they follow them in a fair and transparent way. In fact religions have extraordinary legal protections in most countries.

What other questions did you ask?

So why is it different for Catholic adoption agencies? That question was already in there...

[muppet]

What questions?

Was this one of them:

Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women?

It is a fairly loaded question isn't it? And it misses the point.

But to answer it, I would think the answer is no. The Law usually doesn't force clubs, societies or religions to break their own rules as long as they follow them in a fair and transparent way. In fact religions have extraordinary legal protections in most countries.

What other questions did you ask?

So why is it different for Catholic adoption agencies? That question was already in there...

I have no idea what you are on about. Could you post a link please?

I am aware of Catholic Adoption agencies taking children from single mothers in Ireland and selling them in the States. I am guessing that is not what bothers you, but more likely it is some ideological objection to a prejudice that means you would rather leave kids in an orphanage. But post up a link anyway.

[The Iceman]

Why if sodomy is completely normal do homosexuals "come out"? Why even do so? Why be identified as gay? Why be defined by gay? The gay footballer, the gay tv presenter...haven't we asked these questions before? By doing so homosexuals wish to not only be tolerated in terms of their private sexual behaviour, but to have that behaviour publicly vindicated and rationalized as normal.

Once it is standard and normalized, on equal footing with the marital act then yes it can be enforced. And i don't mean anyone will be forced to bend over. But we will be forced to recognize sodomy as normal.
Catholic adoption agencies have already been closed down or fined for not allowing gay couples to adopt. It's against their religious teaching - but if you don't agree that sodomy is normal then we're closing you down.
Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women? That it could somehow be enforced? What defense does a church have that the Catholic adoption agency didnt? So I don't think I'm being silly, not at all. I'm drawing logical conclusions based on the direction of the times and the stated and outward mission of the gay community.

What you describe as being normalised, they would describe as ending centuries of persecution. The various churches were central to much of that persecution.

You have been sucked into it muppet. It's sodomy. It was always wrong. It's still wrong. The churches did and will continue to say so. Society did so too, until they were played.

What's wrong with it?

I'll bite J70 seeing as we have many mutual acquaintances

Biologically it is wrong. And I'll ask you to present the opposite case if you disagree. The arse is an exit. For disposable of fecal matter. Human generative organs are perfectly matched. The matching only takes place in heterosexual coupling.  When the arse is used to replace the vagina it is clearly being used for something it was not intended. This causes physical harm. There are substances in seminal fluid called immuno-regulatory macromolecules that send out signals that are understood by the female body. When deposited elsewhere these signals are misunderstood and cause a 4000% increase in the risk of anal cancer.(Journal of the American Medical Association 1988-90)
anal sex increases the risk of rectal prolapse, perforation that can go septic, the chlap, genital herpes, genital warts, gonorrhea, viral hepatiitis......
Gay men are 445 more likely to contract Aids/HIV. Gay men account for 79% of all new HIV cases, 72% of primary and secondary syphilis cases and a significant % of other STDs.

Today more money is spent on the cure for Aids than for Lung Cancer. Yet we rationalize sodomy much like the tobacco industry rationalize smoking...

So from a purely biological argument  - whats right about sodomy?

[The Iceman]

What questions?

Was this one of them:

Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women?

It is a fairly loaded question isn't it? And it misses the point.

But to answer it, I would think the answer is no. The Law usually doesn't force clubs, societies or religions to break their own rules as long as they follow them in a fair and transparent way. In fact religions have extraordinary legal protections in most countries.

What other questions did you ask?

So why is it different for Catholic adoption agencies? That question was already in there...

I have no idea what you are on about. Could you post a link please?

I am aware of Catholic Adoption agencies taking children from single mothers in Ireland and selling them in the States. I am guessing that is not what bothers you, but more likely it is some ideological objection to a prejudice that means you would rather leave kids in an orphanage. But post up a link anyway.

Because you are not aware does not mean it doesnt happen: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0601456.htm
this happened back in 2006, it has happened since then in other states.

more bobbing and weaving muppet - we're talking about religious charities being forced in to closure because they will legally be bound to allow children in their care to be adopted by gay couples.

[muppet]

What questions?

Was this one of them:

Don't you think if sodomy is rationalized and normal then churches will have to marry gay men and women?

It is a fairly loaded question isn't it? And it misses the point.

But to answer it, I would think the answer is no. The Law usually doesn't force clubs, societies or religions to break their own rules as long as they follow them in a fair and transparent way. In fact religions have extraordinary legal protections in most countries.

What other questions did you ask?

So why is it different for Catholic adoption agencies? That question was already in there...

I have no idea what you are on about. Could you post a link please?

I am aware of Catholic Adoption agencies taking children from single mothers in Ireland and selling them in the States. I am guessing that is not what bothers you, but more likely it is some ideological objection to a prejudice that means you would rather leave kids in an orphanage. But post up a link anyway.

Because you are not aware does not mean it doesnt happen: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0601456.htm
this happened back in 2006, it has happened since then in other states.

more bobbing and weaving muppet - we're talking about religious charities being forced in to closure because they will legally be bound to allow children in their care to be adopted by gay couples.

Catholic Charities of the Boston Archdiocese announced March 10 that it will stop providing adoption services rather than continue to comply with a state law requiring no discrimination against gay and lesbian couples who seek to adopt.

That is what you are defending?

'Forced into closure' is not correct. They chose to close because they are bigots. They prioritised their prejudice above the children. That tells you all you need to know about these people. But then the Catholic Church has plenty of previous with children.

[muppet]

A 2003 Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith document says it would be "gravely immoral" to let same-sex couples adopt children.

"Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full development," said the document.

That is positively poisonous.

[The Iceman]

A 2003 Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith document says it would be "gravely immoral" to let same-sex couples adopt children.

"Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full development," said the document.

That is positively poisonous.

It has happened in multiple states were the charities had to close or face legal enforcement of state laws which allowed gay couples to adopt. In NY the Church fought the laws and received an exception.
Again, you are not addressing the point and in fact ignoring them. Religious institutions are being forced to normalize and accept sodomy or close. It has happened. It will keep happening.
It will happen in Churches. And people like you muppet who are all for rights and equality will be the ones leading the charge - justifying it all with the many axes you have to grind against the church. Screw the Church they did X,Y and Z so they deserve everything they get....

[muppet]

A 2003 Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith document says it would be "gravely immoral" to let same-sex couples adopt children.

"Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children, in the sense that their condition of dependency would be used to place them in an environment that is not conducive to their full development," said the document.

That is positively poisonous.

It has happened in multiple states were the charities had to close or face legal enforcement of state laws which allowed gay couples to adopt. In NY the Church fought the laws and received an exception.
Again, you are not addressing the point and in fact ignoring them. Religious institutions are being forced to normalize and accept sodomy or close. It has happened. It will keep happening.
It will happen in Churches. And people like you muppet who are all for rights and equality will be the ones leading the charge - justifying it all with the many axes you have to grind against the church. Screw the Church they did X,Y and Z so they deserve everything they get....

They chose to close. That is their own doing because they insist on the right to discriminate.

You posted the link above but you ignore the astonishingly evil vile comment contained in it.

It was from the Vatican and is official Church teaching.

So then do you believe the following:

"Allowing children to be adopted by persons living in such unions would actually mean doing violence to these children".

[armaghniac]

There is a case, is there not, that adoption agencies should discriminate in favour of children and avoid environments that are not conducive to their full development. In particular, they should not make children mere pawns in politically correct gaming by adults.