Best Club Championship

[fitzroyalty]

In the Ulster club, ove the past 20 years there have been 5 different winners from Derry (a total of 7 titles), 2 different clubs from Armagh (8 titles) and Monaghan (2 titles) and one winner each from Tyrone (2 titles) and Antrim.
Thus Derry would appear to have the most competitive championship in Ulster.

How does these stats equate to Derry's Club Championship being the most competitive?

I actually thought that was self-explanatory, but here goes, Derry have shown over the last 20 years that they have more clubs capable of winning Ulster than any other county in Ulster has exhibited.  The fact that we have had so many different winners both of our own championship and the Ulster would indicate that our championship is both competitive and of a high standard.  
Dungiven and Loup in their only 2 forays outside of Derry in that period have won Ulster titles, add in that Slaughtneil took Cross to a replay in their only outing and Glenullin fell to St Galls in the semi in their only outing and we see that Derry clubs are generally competitive in Ulster.
Whilst a Derry club hasn't won Ulster in the last six years, we've had the losing finalists in 05, 06 and 08.

Thank-you bogball. Derry clearly has the best club football, I know competitiveness doesn't always imply high quality but in the case of Derry football it certainly does. I would also agree that people tend to run-down the Armagh SFC without having any experience of it, unfortunately for us (the other clubs) we have been in the company of probably the biggest force in club football in Ireland. I think Cross' dominance in Armagh extends beyond their footballing ability, though we saw this year and last year in the AI club that they are beatable. I would be fairly confident in the next year or so Cross will start to decline, their best players just happen to be their older players, and once these guys start retiring their stranglehold in Armagh will loosen.

[fitzroyalty]

if you take Cross out the championship in Armagh is extremely competitive, with the other finalists changing constantly. Last year Cross were taken to the pin of their collar by a couple of teams and only a contentious decision disallowing a goal for the Harps prevented them toppling.

You are gauging the rest of Armagh by the fact that they cant beat Cross, BUT CROSS ARE PROBABLY THE GREATEST CLUB SIDE IN HISTORY!!

If the Armagh championship is so shit, how come in the last few years Cross have had their hardest games domestically and then cruise against the other county champions in Ulster?

Getting beat by Loup in 2003, Drawing with Slaughtneil in 2004, getting beat by Bellaghy in 2005 and drawing with Ballinderry in 2008 is hardly cruising it.



As for the strengths of Armagh Club football outside Cross?


2008 Ulster Intermediate Championship

Cullyhanna (3rd In Armagh Div 1) 0.9  Greenlough (Div 3 in Derry) 0.11

2007 Ulster Intermediate Championship

Whitecross (Div 1 Armagh)  0.12  Newbridge (Div 3 in Derry) 1.15


Also I have seen plenty of Armagh club games in last few years, including senior championship, intermediate championship and div 1 and 2 league games.  Outside of cross the standard is not great and the teams in div 2 are very poor IMHO. 

Billy no one is saying Armagh football is stronger than Derry football. Also in any case derry league football is structured differently with 8 teams in each division AFAIK, so Newbridge/Greenlough would probably be Div2 teams if they were from Armagh.

[billy the kid]

if you take Cross out the championship in Armagh is extremely competitive, with the other finalists changing constantly. Last year Cross were taken to the pin of their collar by a couple of teams and only a contentious decision disallowing a goal for the Harps prevented them toppling.

You are gauging the rest of Armagh by the fact that they cant beat Cross, BUT CROSS ARE PROBABLY THE GREATEST CLUB SIDE IN HISTORY!!

If the Armagh championship is so shit, how come in the last few years Cross have had their hardest games domestically and then cruise against the other county champions in Ulster?

sure if you take st galls and cargin out of antrim there championship would be more competitive but that will seriously lessen the quality and the same if you took cross out of armagh.

you say cross are the greatest club side in history,how many of this years team played in 97?so over the years there team has changed several times and still nobody put it up to them.so i think you mean to say they are the greatest club in history.

since 2000 there have been bellaghy,ballinderry,loup and st galls who have all won the ulster championship so cross have not cruised through ulster with ballinderry taking them to a replay last year.

they've cruised Ulster in the last 3 years. also there are still members of the team, hearty, mcconville, donaldson, mcentees, short etc who have been involved throughout.

teams like the Harps, Pearse Ogs, Dromintee would also compete in Ulster and would probably be in the shake up for any of the county titles. You use Antrim as your case study, the weakest county in Ulster. Division 4 sides from Armagh would compete in the Antrim div2 for God sake (no offence Antrim, its just the way it is)

there are also afew div 1 teams in Armagh that wouldnt compete in div 2 in derry and all of Armagh div 2 (apart from Harps) would struggle in Derry Div 3 (no offence Armagh, its just the way it is)

[eireogatron]

by the way i am not advocating Armagh as the strongest club championship, i am merely pointing out that there are 4 teams at least who would compete well in any other county in Ulster.

Just because we have the best team in the country (i say this despite them losing the AI final) you should not disregard the chasing pack.

Anyone who disagrees that Cross are not the best team in Ulster and have been for at least 12 years consistently is crazy (please do not bring up their defeats in Ulster because these are inevitable, even the best teams get beat sometimes)

[The GAA]

if you take Cross out the championship in Armagh is extremely competitive, with the other finalists changing constantly. Last year Cross were taken to the pin of their collar by a couple of teams and only a contentious decision disallowing a goal for the Harps prevented them toppling.

You are gauging the rest of Armagh by the fact that they cant beat Cross, BUT CROSS ARE PROBABLY THE GREATEST CLUB SIDE IN HISTORY!!

If the Armagh championship is so shit, how come in the last few years Cross have had their hardest games domestically and then cruise against the other county champions in Ulster?

Getting beat by Loup in 2003, Drawing with Slaughtneil in 2004, getting beat by Bellaghy in 2005 and drawing with Ballinderry in 2008 is hardly cruising it.



As for the strengths of Armagh Club football outside Cross?


2008 Ulster Intermediate Championship

Cullyhanna (3rd In Armagh Div 1) 0.9  Greenlough (Div 3 in Derry) 0.11

2007 Ulster Intermediate Championship

Whitecross (Div 1 Armagh)  0.12  Newbridge (Div 3 in Derry) 1.15


Also I have seen plenty of Armagh club games in last few years, including senior championship, intermediate championship and div 1 and 2 league games.  Outside of cross the standard is not great and the teams in div 2 are very poor IMHO. 

Thats a nonsense argument. picking 2 championship results at random to represent the strength of the overall county is simply stupid. Cullyhanna, although they finished 3rd in the league aren't in the top 8 teams in the county. whitecross just about avoided division 3 football last year.

now i believe that overal club football in derry is stronger than armagh but the top 4 in armagh are a least on a par with the top 4 in derry

[eireogatron]

if you take Cross out the championship in Armagh is extremely competitive, with the other finalists changing constantly. Last year Cross were taken to the pin of their collar by a couple of teams and only a contentious decision disallowing a goal for the Harps prevented them toppling.

You are gauging the rest of Armagh by the fact that they cant beat Cross, BUT CROSS ARE PROBABLY THE GREATEST CLUB SIDE IN HISTORY!!

If the Armagh championship is so shit, how come in the last few years Cross have had their hardest games domestically and then cruise against the other county champions in Ulster?

sure if you take st galls and cargin out of antrim there championship would be more competitive but that will seriously lessen the quality and the same if you took cross out of armagh.

you say cross are the greatest club side in history,how many of this years team played in 97?so over the years there team has changed several times and still nobody put it up to them.so i think you mean to say they are the greatest club in history.

since 2000 there have been bellaghy,ballinderry,loup and st galls who have all won the ulster championship so cross have not cruised through ulster with ballinderry taking them to a replay last year.

they've cruised Ulster in the last 3 years. also there are still members of the team, hearty, mcconville, donaldson, mcentees, short etc who have been involved throughout.

teams like the Harps, Pearse Ogs, Dromintee would also compete in Ulster and would probably be in the shake up for any of the county titles. You use Antrim as your case study, the weakest county in Ulster. Division 4 sides from Armagh would compete in the Antrim div2 for God sake (no offence Antrim, its just the way it is)

there are also afew div 1 teams in Armagh that wouldnt compete in div 2 in derry and all of Armagh div 2 (apart from Harps) would struggle in Derry Div 3 (no offence Armagh, its just the way it is)

prove it.

[eireogatron]

if you take Cross out the championship in Armagh is extremely competitive, with the other finalists changing constantly. Last year Cross were taken to the pin of their collar by a couple of teams and only a contentious decision disallowing a goal for the Harps prevented them toppling.

You are gauging the rest of Armagh by the fact that they cant beat Cross, BUT CROSS ARE PROBABLY THE GREATEST CLUB SIDE IN HISTORY!!

If the Armagh championship is so shit, how come in the last few years Cross have had their hardest games domestically and then cruise against the other county champions in Ulster?

Getting beat by Loup in 2003, Drawing with Slaughtneil in 2004, getting beat by Bellaghy in 2005 and drawing with Ballinderry in 2008 is hardly cruising it.



As for the strengths of Armagh Club football outside Cross?


2008 Ulster Intermediate Championship

Cullyhanna (3rd In Armagh Div 1) 0.9  Greenlough (Div 3 in Derry) 0.11

2007 Ulster Intermediate Championship

Whitecross (Div 1 Armagh)  0.12  Newbridge (Div 3 in Derry) 1.15


Also I have seen plenty of Armagh club games in last few years, including senior championship, intermediate championship and div 1 and 2 league games.  Outside of cross the standard is not great and the teams in div 2 are very poor IMHO. 

Thats a nonsense argument. picking 2 championship results at random to represent the strength of the overall county is simply stupid. Cullyhanna, although they finished 3rd in the league aren't in the top 8 teams in the county. whitecross just about avoided division 3 football last year.

now i believe that overal club football in derry is stronger than armagh but the top 4 in armagh are a least on a par with the top 4 in derry

if you would be so kind as to read my previous post........

[eireogatron]

by the way i am not advocating Armagh as the strongest club championship, i am merely pointing out that there are 4 teams at least who would compete well in any other county in Ulster.

Just because we have the best team in the country (i say this despite them losing the AI final) you should not disregard the chasing pack.

Anyone who disagrees that Cross are not the best team in Ulster and have been for at least 12 years consistently is crazy (please do not bring up their defeats in Ulster because these are inevitable, even the best teams get beat sometimes)

please see above TheGAA

[The GAA]

I wasn't addressing you

[Drumanee 1]

by the way i am not advocating Armagh as the strongest club championship, i am merely pointing out that there are 4 teams at least who would compete well in any other county in Ulster.

Just because we have the best team in the country (i say this despite them losing the AI final) you should not disregard the chasing pack.

Anyone who disagrees that Cross are not the best team in Ulster and have been for at least 12 years consistently is crazy (please do not bring up their defeats in Ulster because these are inevitable, even the best teams get beat sometimes)

but not in armagh

if you take Cross out the championship in Armagh is extremely competitive, with the other finalists changing constantly. Last year Cross were taken to the pin of their collar by a couple of teams and only a contentious decision disallowing a goal for the Harps prevented them toppling.

You are gauging the rest of Armagh by the fact that they cant beat Cross, BUT CROSS ARE PROBABLY THE GREATEST CLUB SIDE IN HISTORY!!

If the Armagh championship is so shit, how come in the last few years Cross have had their hardest games domestically and then cruise against the other county champions in Ulster?

sure if you take st galls and cargin out of antrim there championship would be more competitive but that will seriously lessen the quality and the same if you took cross out of armagh.

you say cross are the greatest club side in history,how many of this years team played in 97?so over the years there team has changed several times and still nobody put it up to them.so i think you mean to say they are the greatest club in history.

since 2000 there have been bellaghy,ballinderry,loup and st galls who have all won the ulster championship so cross have not cruised through ulster with ballinderry taking them to a replay last year.

they've cruised Ulster in the last 3 years. also there are still members of the team, hearty, mcconville, donaldson, mcentees, short etc who have been involved throughout.

teams like the Harps, Pearse Ogs, Dromintee would also compete in Ulster and would probably be in the shake up for any of the county titles. You use Antrim as your case study, the weakest county in Ulster. Division 4 sides from Armagh would compete in the Antrim div2 for God sake (no offence Antrim, its just the way it is)

hearty and donaldson were not on in 97

ok the last three years,even though ballinderry took them to a replay i will give you that but what about the previous 10 years in armagh?

forget antrim then,lets take a soccer equilavent for example,take celtic and rangers out of there league what are you left with,come to think of it when i think of similar situation i always come up with 2 teams whereas in armagh ther is just 1 .

[The GAA]

Hearty was there in 97 - he got injured and missed the all ireland run in. mcentees, mcconville, bellew and short are the ever presents.

[brokencrossbar1]

This is silly talk, you cannot compare the Armagh championship to the other ones in Ulster.  Until one of the teams actually make the breakthrough then no one can say for definite that they are as good as teams coming out of Derry, Tyrone or any of the other counties.  It may be competitive to an extent, but lets face it we cruised the league last year with a shadow team who were training once a week till August.  The games in Armagh will always be tight as teams always raise their game and never mind the obvious ability we have the biggest compliment I can pay to our boys is that mentally they can still do it.  

Of the other championship Derry is very strong, Mayo and Galway, Dublin and despite Nemo dominating the winning of it the Cork Championship is of a very high level.  There would be 5-6 teams in Cork would give most championships a serious run.

[The GAA]

This is silly talk, you cannot compare the Armagh championship to the other ones in Ulster.  Until one of the teams actually make the breakthrough then no one can say for definite that they are as good as teams coming out of Derry, Tyrone or any of the other counties.  It may be competitive to an extent, but lets face it we cruised the league last year with a shadow team who were training once a week till August.  The games in Armagh will always be tight as teams always raise their game and never mind the obvious ability we have the biggest compliment I can pay to our boys is that mentally they can still do it.  

Of the other championship Derry is very strong, Mayo and Galway, Dublin and despite Nemo dominating the winning of it the Cork Championship is of a very high level.  There would be 5-6 teams in Cork would give most championships a serious run.

Don't contradict yourself there..

[Drumanee 1]

Hearty was there in 97 - he got injured and missed the all ireland run in. mcentees, mcconville, bellew and short are the ever presents.

i repeat he was not on,mcconville did goals during there 96/97 run.

[The GAA]

bc will tell you for sure but he has been goals for every armagh championship win, including 96, but he got injured for the all ireland and mcconville did goals