Anyone on the board made any cryptocurrency investments or done any research on it? What's your verdict? Is it the future? Is it all a massive bubble that's about to burst?
Peter Schiff talking about this on Joe Rogan
Go to 2hrs 13mins 20secs for the start of that part of the conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg)
I don't fully understand it myself but The Economist did a decent piece on it years ago:
https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21677198-technology-behind-bitcoin-could-transform-how-economy-works-trust-machine (https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21677198-technology-behind-bitcoin-could-transform-how-economy-works-trust-machine)
Quote from: theskull1 on September 01, 2017, 03:29:39 PM
Peter Schiff talking about this on Joe Rogan
Go to 2hrs 13mins 20secs for the start of that part of the conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg)
In his attempt to explain why it won't work I think he convinced me that it will.
Standard money is just a medium of exchange with no intrinsic value since the gold standard was abandoned and whose notional value is bound to collapse when the fractional reserve banking dodge, built on debt-based funny money collapses as it inevitably must.
If contracting entities in sufficient numbers agree to use bitcoin as a medium of exchange, the only difference in comparison to money is in the fact that bitcoin's notional value is not artificially inflated as debt-based money's is.
Quote from: Hardy on September 01, 2017, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: theskull1 on September 01, 2017, 03:29:39 PM
Peter Schiff talking about this on Joe Rogan
Go to 2hrs 13mins 20secs for the start of that part of the conversation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OgqQQANg)
In his attempt to explain why it won't work I think he convinced me that it will.
Standard money is just a medium of exchange with no intrinsic value since the gold standard was abandoned and whose notional value is bound to collapse when the fractional reserve banking dodge, built on debt-based funny money collapses as it inevitably must.
If contracting entities in sufficient numbers agree to use bitcoin as a medium of exchange, the only difference in comparison to money is in the fact that bitcoin's notional value is not artificially inflated as debt-based money's is.
The fact most if not all currency are now just concepts with public buyin mean that it doesnt have to be based on anything to succeed.
With public confidence and buyin they could take off but would they suceed? If left to the free market IO fancy they could be headed for a crash.
Sovereign currencies are backed up by central banks and governments and that's a key difference as far as long term success goes. Personally I think it will take off, head towards a crash and subsequently regulation that will likely kill them being used widespread, but if you get in and out before the crash it could be a good investment.
I know SFA about them tho TBH
The gold standard is long gone. The "inevitable collapse of civilization as we know it" that Ron Paul types keep predicting seems to be as far away as ever. Seems like we're doing just fine with fiduciary money.
I've had one of those Goldmoney accounts for 2 years now. I pop a couple of hundred into it every month.
Onecoin anybody?
I bought some Dascoin about 3 months ago..... not trading to it seems 2018...so it is a wait but we will see what happens....
Put in a few bob myself, not a huge amount. A friend persuaded me but I havent a clue. He's put in a lot and is no eejit. So I just wait and see... blind faith
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 01, 2017, 11:14:23 PM
I've had one of those Goldmoney accounts for 2 years now. I pop a couple of hundred into it every month.
How has it performed ?
Where can you see its performance over the last day 3 yrs?
Quote from: stiffler on September 02, 2017, 09:03:57 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on September 01, 2017, 11:14:23 PM
I've had one of those Goldmoney accounts for 2 years now. I pop a couple of hundred into it every month.
How has it performed ?
Where can you see its performance over the last day 3 yrs?
Just Google the price of gold. GoldMoney isn't crypto - you're purchasing physical gold.
Bitcoin on the verge of going through $10k
Invested about £800 in BTC and £800 in ETH back in the summer. BTC was around £3,100 each when invested - my investment got me 0.27 = worth just over £2K at the minute. Just pity didn't invest last year when they were £500 each or a few years ago when I had considered it and they were £80 each and got talked out of it by another guy I worked with :(
Not directly on topic, not but a million miles away, there is an online football stockmarket getting quite big. Been on it from it's early days - there's a bit of money to be made if you have a bit of patience.
https://trade.footballindex.co.uk/
I know a guy who's pretty well off (i.e. He can tolerate the risk of it going to $0)
He threw $20-$30 grand into it last year
He has made an absolute killing so far
He told me about it when it was about $2500, but it sounded too risky for me
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
I know a guy who's pretty well off (i.e. He can tolerate the risk of it going to $0)
He threw $20-$30 grand into it last year
He has made an absolute killing so far
He told me about it when it was about $2500, but it sounded too risky for me
I'm the same. . . too risk averse for that shit don't want to be dropping a couple of grand on something that has no stability!
Have been seriously thinking about it this past month but I think I'll leave it.
I smell bubble again. and when it all goes tits up it'll be the governments fault .
money to be made in the meanwhile , but when the music stops....
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
I know a guy who's pretty well off (i.e. He can tolerate the risk of it going to $0)
He threw $20-$30 grand into it last year
He has made an absolute killing so far
He told me about it when it was about $2500, but it sounded too risky for me
It was under 1k at the end of the year, so he's made at least 1000% on it.
Quote from: gallsman on November 28, 2017, 03:25:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
I know a guy who's pretty well off (i.e. He can tolerate the risk of it going to $0)
He threw $20-$30 grand into it last year
He has made an absolute killing so far
He told me about it when it was about $2500, but it sounded too risky for me
It was under 1k at the end of the year, so he's made at least 1000% on it.
How long will he leave his money in for though!!
Quote from: screenexile on November 28, 2017, 03:26:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 28, 2017, 03:25:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 28, 2017, 03:07:25 PM
I know a guy who's pretty well off (i.e. He can tolerate the risk of it going to $0)
He threw $20-$30 grand into it last year
He has made an absolute killing so far
He told me about it when it was about $2500, but it sounded too risky for me
It was under 1k at the end of the year, so he's made at least 1000% on it.
How long will he leave his money in for though!!
I'm meeting him next week so I'll find out if he's taken anything off the the table
He was telling me about his neighbor who was one of the very first into it....instead of giving cash to his nieces and nephews for Xmas and birthdays, he gave them units of Bitcoin. If I remember correctly some got between 5 and 10 units.
How easy is it to sell your units or cash out or whatever?
Is this like cfd
Quote from: lurganblue on November 28, 2017, 04:14:33 PM
How easy is it to sell your units or cash out or whatever?
Having had a look at it there seems to be steep enough comission in places.
Depends on what exchange you're using. Coinbase is the easiest but probably the most expensive too. There are sites that link you with direct sellers like localbitcoins
So it smashed through $10k with no big sell off and is about to hit 11k.
Quote from: gallsman on November 29, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
So it smashed through $10k with no big sell off and is about to hit 11k.
Time to bail..
One word
HOLD
Bitcoin through the $15,000 mark.
Futures market from Wall Street coming on Monday
good time to buy then?
Quote from: clarshack on January 17, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
good time to buy then?
The phrase "Never try to catch a falling knife springs to mind". But these Cryptocurrencies seem to have a whole new set of rules so who knows. I personally think that one of the "Big" tech companies is going to come up with something that has some degree of intrinsic value, whether through guarantees, greater acceptability etc that will kill the majority of these.
But if I knew what i was talking about I would have bought Bitcoin at €1,000 last year and be crying about only having 8 times my money rather than 20! :-\ :-\
the value is in the blockchain technology - companies who embrace that and make practical uses for it make sense - theres a company called ShipChain that are working on use cases in the logistics space...
the currency to me was always a huge risk. There's no such thing as a get rick quick scheme. The amount of these currencies popping up is as frequent as the experts who will sell them to you.
Sorry to all who bought recently and just lost money
Quote from: TabClear on January 17, 2018, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: clarshack on January 17, 2018, 03:23:02 PM
good time to buy then?
The phrase "Never try to catch a falling knife springs to mind". But these Cryptocurrencies seem to have a whole new set of rules so who knows. I personally think that one of the "Big" tech companies is going to come up with something that has some degree of intrinsic value, whether through guarantees, greater acceptability etc that will kill the majority of these.
But if I knew what i was talking about I would have bought Bitcoin at €1,000 last year and be crying about only having 8 times my money rather than 20! :-\ :-\
On the contrary, if you look at the price of Bitcoin, its mirroring a classic bubble price over time graph. Shown here at the top of the page: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/11/uncanny-chart-shows-bitcoin-bubble-could-burst/
If you Google Bitcoin vs Dotcom bubble, again the comparisons are uncanny so far.
As Iceman said, the real potential seems to be in the technology underpinning the currencies as opposed to the actual currencies themselves.
Been crashing the last few days and I've taken a big hit. Might interest anyone thinking about buying that the yearly low of BTC has been mid January for the last three years.
I'm still holding. I bought low, and when I did I knew the money I put in was at risk.
I used to work for a crypto company and still work within the blockchain industry. I still believe in cryptocurrencies, but I wouldn't be investing my life savings, nor have I the time/desire to become a day trader.
As always do your own research.
I'm holding too. My entire portfolio is up a third in the last 5 hours. Very, very welcome after the last few days.
Bitcoin down nearly $1000 in the last 24 hours to under $7k.
https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/939193/Cryptocurrency-price-bitcoin-ethereum-ripple-litecoin-cryptocurrency-news
Dubs 1/2 for next year all ireland. Anyone still looking at crypto needs their head read
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Anyone signing up for strike?
https://twitter.com/jackmallers/status/1346866335536582656?s=24
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt2C3CsLi7k
Really looks like it will be the future and drive crypto
Link to sign up below
https://global.strike.me/?kid=1EMM49
Quote from: Mickey Linden on September 02, 2018, 11:15:12 PM
Dubs 1/2 for next year all ireland. Anyone still looking at crypto needs their head read
Hi from 2021 ;D
Unreal. I had 3k that I threw into an account back in Dec and it's worth over 6k now.
What ye reckon lads, still a good time to buy crypto? Any recommendations on what currency?
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
What ye reckon lads, still a good time to buy crypto? Any recommendations on what currency?
Whatever you go for tattoo your password on the missus's back some night. This poor bastard :o :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55645408
We've all been there - brain fog makes us forget our password and after eight frantic attempts, we have just two left.
That's the situation for programmer Stefan Thomas but the stakes are higher than most - the forgotten password will let him unlock a hard drive containing $240m (£175m) worth of Bitcoin.
Quote from: TabClear on January 19, 2021, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
What ye reckon lads, still a good time to buy crypto? Any recommendations on what currency?
Whatever you go for tattoo your password on the missus's back some night. This poor bastard :o :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55645408
We've all been there - brain fog makes us forget our password and after eight frantic attempts, we have just two left.
That's the situation for programmer Stefan Thomas but the stakes are higher than most - the forgotten password will let him unlock a hard drive containing $240m (£175m) worth of Bitcoin.
I wouldnt trust the missus with that.
The story at the bottom of the article is actually worse...
"And in 2013, a Welsh man desperately searched a landfill site after throwing away a computer hard drive containing 7,500 bitcoins.
At the time worth more than £4m, this would now be valued at more than £250m."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-25138627
Huge slide going on this last week,buy in the dip as they say??
Gamestop and AMC shares the big bandwagons to be on this week. A friend of mine made £3500 between yesterday and today.
It is all fun and games at the moment but it will eñd in tears for someone. Apparently gamestop is struggling at the moment but its share price is surging on the back of internet chat.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 27, 2021, 09:16:27 PM
It is all fun and games at the moment but it will eñd in tears for someone. Apparently gamestop is struggling at the moment but its share price is surging on the back of internet chat.
Yeah it's believed Gamestop are in serious difficulty. Mad how the last 48 hours went there but. Chatter can have a serious impact.
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 27, 2021, 09:16:27 PM
It is all fun and games at the moment but it will eñd in tears for someone. Apparently gamestop is struggling at the moment but its share price is surging on the back of internet chat.
Today's share price would value the company at $10 billion. Its ridiculous stuff, a castle made of sand, a fugazi.
Quote from: TwoUpTwoDown on January 27, 2021, 09:18:28 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on January 27, 2021, 09:16:27 PM
It is all fun and games at the moment but it will eñd in tears for someone. Apparently gamestop is struggling at the moment but its share price is surging on the back of internet chat.
Yeah it's believed Gamestop are in serious difficulty. Mad how the last 48 hours went there but. Chatter can have a serious impact.
It's not just chatter though - it's essentially an orchestrated campaign to nail a couple of hedge funds who have large short positions in the stock.
Quote from: Franko on January 27, 2021, 09:26:05 PM
It's not just chatter though - it's essentially an orchestrated campaign to nail a couple of hedge funds who have large short positions in the stock.
I don't see how a short sell can be legal (I know it is legal, but it clearly shouldn't be).
The stock market is supposed to be about investing in companies.
How the f**k is a short an investment? Just shows the crooks up for what they are IMO. F**king skybet under a fancier name.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 09:50:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 27, 2021, 09:26:05 PM
It's not just chatter though - it's essentially an orchestrated campaign to nail a couple of hedge funds who have large short positions in the stock.
I don't see how a short sell can be legal (I know it is legal, but it clearly shouldn't be).
The stock market is supposed to be about investing in companies.
How the f**k is a short an investment? Just shows the crooks up for what they are IMO. F**king skybet under a fancier name.
Agreed. Total casino. And don't even start on the derivatives.
Glad to see some of these hedge fund pricks getting nailed - and by nothing more than a few geeks who got organised in a chat room
No doubt some sort of legislation will be enacted shortly so normal service can resume
And only the 'right' people will again be able to manipulate the markets
Quote from: Franko on January 27, 2021, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on January 27, 2021, 09:50:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 27, 2021, 09:26:05 PM
It's not just chatter though - it's essentially an orchestrated campaign to nail a couple of hedge funds who have large short positions in the stock.
I don't see how a short sell can be legal (I know it is legal, but it clearly shouldn't be).
The stock market is supposed to be about investing in companies.
How the f**k is a short an investment? Just shows the crooks up for what they are IMO. F**king skybet under a fancier name.
Agreed. Total casino. And don't even start on the derivatives.
Glad to see some of these hedge fund pricks getting nailed - and by nothing more than a few geeks who got organised in a chat room
No doubt some sort of legislation will be enacted shortly so normal service can resume
And only the 'right' people will again be able to manipulate the markets
They've been trotting out their lap dogs on financial news channels all day talking down gamestop stock as they know its getting really ugly for them.
Anyone want to explain in lay-mans terms what exactly is going on with gamestop
Quote from: Hereiam on January 27, 2021, 10:28:27 PM
Anyone want to explain in lay-mans terms what exactly is going on with gamestop
The hedge funds were playing games with their shares and the fans got together and stopped them?
Quote from: armaghniac on January 27, 2021, 10:31:51 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on January 27, 2021, 10:28:27 PM
Anyone want to explain in lay-mans terms what exactly is going on with gamestop
The hedge funds were playing games with their shares and the fans got together and stopped them?
Firstly, it's a pretty shit company – think blockbuster or Xtra vision.
But that's largely irrelevant
Their share price had been dropping consistently for a long time and a few hedge funds had taken large short positions on them (betting that the price will fall further)
So much so, that the company gained a bit of notoriety as being the most shorted stock in the world.
A bunch of geeks on reddit saw this and decided to take action (for kicks more than anything - they didn't care a jot about the company itself)
So they, and all their friends, and all their friends' friends (x10) started to buy the stock – sending it rocketing (+over 300% in a few days)
If stories are to be believed, one hedge fund is on the verge of collapse due to the size of the losses (over $1bn)
And most of the guys who got in early are absolutely quids in (on paper)
So in essence, a bunch of normal folks have gotten organised and plundered a billion dollars from a hedge fund
Which is a helluva story, if nothing else
The Redditors aren't buying the stock, they're buying options using retail platforms like Robinhood and Ameritrade as the leverage is much greater. The sellers are then buying stock to hedge, which drives the price up and as the price goes up, the short sellers have to buy stock to cover their position which...drives the stock up further
Something like 140% of the stock was in a short position. Mental.
Quote from: Franko on January 27, 2021, 10:51:46 PM
So in essence, a bunch of normal folks have gotten organised and plundered a billion dollars from a hedge fund
Which is a helluva story, if nothing else
Not quite - the redditors are getting their tasty returns, assuming they sell their options (there are screenshots of people paying off mortgages) etc. The biggest winners though are the hedge funds that get to buy into the otherwise sound and successful fund that got melted for bargain basement price. The losses there are going to be considerably more than 1bn.
Sorry I was going more for the lay man explanation
Anyway
The page on Reddit has been taken down for "hate speech" apparently.
The hedge funds are fighting back
There's certainly a question of legality to what the Redditors are doing. Does the event not simply boil down to an internet-inspired pump and dump?
Quote from: Hereiam on January 27, 2021, 10:28:27 PM
Anyone want to explain in lay-mans terms what exactly is going on with gamestop
It's a bit like the time John and Zeus took down Hans Grubers brother in New York. Completely unexpected but great to see.
The hedge fund pricks are being nailed by Peter Lafleur and the lads.
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 12:14:32 AM
There's certainly a question of legality to what the Redditors are doing. Does the event not simply boil down to an internet-inspired pump and dump?
I don't know if there are genuine legal issues at play. As mentioned previously here, for me the issue is the actions of the hedge fund groups in the first place.
What the fcuk is this Gamestop schit about? Explain in layman terms.
Shorting a stock is actually buying it and promising to return it inside a certain amount of time. The borrower then sells the stock. When done by a large hedge fund, they usually release a damaging report (but fully legal) after they sold the stock detailing why they think the stock is overpriced. Wall Street traders believe the bad news and the stock price drops accordingly. Hedge fund then buys the stock back at the lower price and returns the stock to the original owner.
Example:
Jack has 100 shares in XYZ company that he bought at 50 bucks and he wants to hold for years to come. XYZ is trading at 100 bucks per share today. Hedge Fund A makes an agreement with Jack to borrow his shares for 1 month and pays Jack a dollar per share. That means they actually buy his shares for 101, including the fee and promise to return his 100 shares in a month. Hedge Fund A immediately resell the 100 shares for 100 bucks.
After Hedge Fund A sell the shares at 100 apiece, they release a report as to why they think stock is overpriced. This could be based on expected cash flows, industry sector outlook or any plausible sounding reason (plausible to fellow traders anyway). The intent is for the report to be the basis for a drop in the price of XYZ stock. Let's say the stock drops to 80. Hedge Fund A buys 100 shares of the stock at 80 and returns the shares to Jack.
Since Hedge Fund A sold the shares at 100 originally and re-bought them at 80, a clear profit of 20 for them. The only other expense was the 1 dollar per share fee they paid Jack to use his shares for a month.
Great deal for Jack as he could do this for 50 months in a row and have the shares at no cost and every month after that he'd be making gains and still own the shares at the end.
Great deal for Hedge Fund A as they made 19 per share profit.
Not so great deal for whoever bought the shares from Hedge Fund A at 100 per share before the report, conveniently authored (but perfectly legal as all they are doing is giving an opinion) by Hedge Fund A.
It is exactly the opposite of a Hedge Fund buying a stock and releasing a positive opinion, then selling - that would be pump and dump.
This guy has very good videos on market stuff. He is Patrick Boyle, Boston born but raised in Ireland and a product of Trinity University, Dublin. He is a fund manager, a professor of finance and an author.
This is his 15-minute take on the GME and Wall Street Bets over last few days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi5hTqQFhuA
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 12:14:32 AM
There's certainly a question of legality to what the Redditors are doing. Does the event not simply boil down to an internet-inspired pump and dump?
There is an element of coordination alright but that's been going on since the first days of trading. It's no different to tipping a stock and the person you tip passing it on to someone else and then someone else etc. It manipulates the price for sure (pretty much everyone agrees that GameStop is failing and the shorts held by all the funds were the right thing to do from their perspective) but as Ball Hopper says, institutional investors manipulate prices all the time. The difference this time is the scale and the quick, easy access retail investors now have to trade various financial instruments at no or zero commission.
As always though, those last in and those who don't jump out in time will be the ones who get burnt. Thankfully as they're largely (from what I've read) buying call options rather than the stock outright, they'll only stand to lose the price of the options, do hopefully the number of people who lose their life savings roll be relatively few.
Alot of those stocks being blocked by the exchanges. So much for the free market!
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 28, 2021, 02:17:32 PM
Alot of those stocks being blocked by the exchanges. So much for the free market!
Just watched Dave Portnoy calling for people to be jailed!
Quote from: gallsman on January 28, 2021, 07:31:30 AM
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 12:14:32 AM
There's certainly a question of legality to what the Redditors are doing. Does the event not simply boil down to an internet-inspired pump and dump?
There is an element of coordination alright but that's been going on since the first days of trading. It's no different to tipping a stock and the person you tip passing it on to someone else and then someone else etc. It manipulates the price for sure (pretty much everyone agrees that GameStop is failing and the shorts held by all the funds were the right thing to do from their perspective) but as Ball Hopper says, institutional investors manipulate prices all the time. The difference this time is the scale and the quick, easy access retail investors now have to trade various financial instruments at no or zero commission.
As always though, those last in and those who don't jump out in time will be the ones who get burnt. Thankfully as they're largely (from what I've read) buying call options rather than the stock outright, they'll only stand to lose the price of the options, do hopefully the number of people who lose their life savings roll be relatively few.
There's a difference between giving someone a tip and coordinating a bull run on stock but I see where you're coming from. I've no involvement in finance but I don't understand the desire/delight at seeing short-sellers getting burnt. At the end of the day they are simply betting a stock is going to fall. I don't see how this is any more immoral than buying shares or options and betting they are going to rise (unless you're an idiot who believes stocks should simply only ever go up).
The people involved in this are just playing the stock market game. The Redditors and hedge funds are simply trying to manipulate the situation to make money. The Redditors are not heroes and the hedge funds aren't villains. Not unless you consider altruism to be the greatest virtue in which case they're both dicks.
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 28, 2021, 07:31:30 AM
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 12:14:32 AM
There's certainly a question of legality to what the Redditors are doing. Does the event not simply boil down to an internet-inspired pump and dump?
There is an element of coordination alright but that's been going on since the first days of trading. It's no different to tipping a stock and the person you tip passing it on to someone else and then someone else etc. It manipulates the price for sure (pretty much everyone agrees that GameStop is failing and the shorts held by all the funds were the right thing to do from their perspective) but as Ball Hopper says, institutional investors manipulate prices all the time. The difference this time is the scale and the quick, easy access retail investors now have to trade various financial instruments at no or zero commission.
As always though, those last in and those who don't jump out in time will be the ones who get burnt. Thankfully as they're largely (from what I've read) buying call options rather than the stock outright, they'll only stand to lose the price of the options, do hopefully the number of people who lose their life savings roll be relatively few.
There's a difference between giving someone a tip and coordinating a bull run on stock but I see where you're coming from. I've no involvement in finance but I don't understand the desire/delight at seeing short-sellers getting burnt. At the end of the day they are simply betting a stock is going to fall. I don't see how this is any more immoral than buying shares or options and betting they are going to rise (unless you're an idiot who believes stocks should simply only ever go up).
The people involved in this are just playing the stock market game. The Redditors and hedge funds are simply trying to manipulate the situation to make money. The Redditors are not heroes and the hedge funds aren't villains. Not unless you consider altruism to be the greatest virtue in which case they're both dicks.
The hedge funds are taking a gamble that the stock value will drop, but it is their actions that will ensure the drop in stock value.
In itself, even a significant drop in share value does not destroy a company but it can seriously impact it's ability to get out of their hole. That's immoral and is illegal but just not scrutinized. In any case they are still the scum, Deutche Bank type scum. Afaiu, despite their 2 year losses, Gamestop is still operating at some viable level and could conceivably adapt their business.
In this case Hedge funds get totally carried away on a wave of avarice and seek to short more than 100% of Gamestop's shares, they borrow the shares at $10 and force a drop in value to $4. Then the plan was return the shares and pocket the difference in value. Smart plain folk sussed out their Achilles heel and intervene to 'purchase' the shares at the low value and they are the ones accused of "market manipulation". Afaiu after the smart folk took their options at $4, the share price went up radically, the Hedge funds in the end will be forced to cover the difference between their borrowing price $10 and new much higher value of the shares.
They don't just bet that the stock goes down though. They actively try to force it down.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 28, 2021, 06:11:01 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 28, 2021, 02:17:32 PM
Alot of those stocks being blocked by the exchanges. So much for the free market!
Just watched Dave Portnoy calling for people to be jailed!
He might not ultimately be wrong, but Portnoy is a gobshite of the highest order.
There will be a Hollywood blockbuster made about this story.
Quote from: Main Street on January 28, 2021, 08:27:14 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 07:43:06 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 28, 2021, 07:31:30 AM
Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2021, 12:14:32 AM
There's certainly a question of legality to what the Redditors are doing. Does the event not simply boil down to an internet-inspired pump and dump?
There is an element of coordination alright but that's been going on since the first days of trading. It's no different to tipping a stock and the person you tip passing it on to someone else and then someone else etc. It manipulates the price for sure (pretty much everyone agrees that GameStop is failing and the shorts held by all the funds were the right thing to do from their perspective) but as Ball Hopper says, institutional investors manipulate prices all the time. The difference this time is the scale and the quick, easy access retail investors now have to trade various financial instruments at no or zero commission.
As always though, those last in and those who don't jump out in time will be the ones who get burnt. Thankfully as they're largely (from what I've read) buying call options rather than the stock outright, they'll only stand to lose the price of the options, do hopefully the number of people who lose their life savings roll be relatively few.
There's a difference between giving someone a tip and coordinating a bull run on stock but I see where you're coming from. I've no involvement in finance but I don't understand the desire/delight at seeing short-sellers getting burnt. At the end of the day they are simply betting a stock is going to fall. I don't see how this is any more immoral than buying shares or options and betting they are going to rise (unless you're an idiot who believes stocks should simply only ever go up).
The people involved in this are just playing the stock market game. The Redditors and hedge funds are simply trying to manipulate the situation to make money. The Redditors are not heroes and the hedge funds aren't villains. Not unless you consider altruism to be the greatest virtue in which case they're both dicks.
The hedge funds are taking a gamble that the stock value will drop, but it is their actions that will ensure the drop in stock value.
In itself, even a significant drop in share value does not destroy a company but it can seriously impact it's ability to get out of their hole. That's immoral and is illegal but just not scrutinized. In any case they are still the scum, Deutche Bank type scum. Afaiu, despite their 2 year losses, Gamestop is still operating at some viable level and could conceivably adapt their business.
In this case Hedge funds get totally carried away on a wave of avarice and seek to short more than 100% of Gamestop's shares, they borrow the shares at $10 and force a drop in value to $4. Then the plan was return the shares and pocket the difference in value. Smart plain folk sussed out their Achilles heel and intervene to 'purchase' the shares at the low value and they are the ones accused of "market manipulation". Afaiu after the smart folk took their options at $4, the share price went up radically, the Hedge funds in the end will be forced to cover the difference between their borrowing price $10 and new much higher value of the shares.
This is the biggest problem. Shorting more than 100% means that there is no way they can cover their position if the share price rises. And less than 30% of outstanding GME shares are actually liquid, so that exacerbates it further. Short selling has its place - but this type of shorting takes risk to a level that needs to be exposed once in a while.
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
They are.
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 01:32:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
They are.
it's all gamers on the forum, they just decided to stick it to the man because gamestop was a business they all used, good to see, shows what can be done if people are organized
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 01:32:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
They are.
I think they are. I think that when a company takes a short position they release a paper which trashes that company and tells everyone why they've taken a short position in the hope that everyone will agree and dump their stock.
It's a f**king crook's game!
Quote from: screenexile on January 29, 2021, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 01:32:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
They are.
I think they are. I think that when a company takes a short position they release a paper trashing the which trashes that company and tells everyone why they've taken a short position in the hope that everyone will agree and dump their stock.
It's a f**king crook's game!
Can find out current shorts on companies here for example: https://finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=111&f=sh_short_o30
That's exactly what happens Screen - so it's hilarious to see these billionaires complain about being f*cked over. They've ruined many a viable business in pursuit of their own profits.
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 03:18:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 29, 2021, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 01:32:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
They are.
I think they are. I think that when a company takes a short position they release a paper trashing the which trashes that company and tells everyone why they've taken a short position in the hope that everyone will agree and dump their stock.
It's a f**king crook's game!
Can find out current shorts on companies here for example: https://finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=111&f=sh_short_o30
That's exactly what happens Screen - so it's hilarious to see these billionaires complain about being f*cked over. They've ruined many a viable business in pursuit of their own profits.
Like scion capital?
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 07:15:38 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 03:18:39 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 29, 2021, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on January 29, 2021, 01:32:17 PM
Quote from: trileacman on January 29, 2021, 01:26:42 PM
How is the short positions on stocks common knowledge? How did the Redditors know that GameStop was shorted to such a huge extent? Surely all short positions aren't publicly available or are they?
They are.
I think they are. I think that when a company takes a short position they release a paper trashing the which trashes that company and tells everyone why they've taken a short position in the hope that everyone will agree and dump their stock.
It's a f**king crook's game!
Can find out current shorts on companies here for example: https://finviz.com/screener.ashx?v=111&f=sh_short_o30
That's exactly what happens Screen - so it's hilarious to see these billionaires complain about being f*cked over. They've ruined many a viable business in pursuit of their own profits.
Like scion capital?
No last I checked Burry does his work on fundamentals as opposed to the likes of Melvin, anything remotely related to Steve Cohen, LTCM, Madoff etc.
Quote from: bigfrank on January 27, 2021, 07:53:50 PM
Huge slide going on this last week,buy in the dip as they say??
So that was a yes or a no? Lol lot of locals lads I know involved in Bitcoin,vechain and chain link,I'm not really too sure what is what with it all but just see it in these text messages ;D ;D
I've been investing in it for over a year now and done really well out of it.
Have BTC, XRP, DOT, INJ, QNT, KSM, VET, ALGO and SNX.
With thanks to Elon Musk over the last few days pushing BTC over $40K has really taken the lid off it.
Quote from: trailer on January 08, 2021, 09:04:33 AM
Unreal. I had 3k that I threw into an account back in Dec and it's worth over 6k now.
f**k I wish I had bought more.
Last week I wished I had bought less but now I wish I had bought more lol.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 09, 2021, 10:16:32 AM
Last week I wished I had bought less but now I wish I had bought more lol.
you know something if I had bought more I probably would've panicked and cashed out so meh whatever. Holding on now till it goes over 100k which it will.
Has anyone bought BTC through Revolut or what's the best way to buy??
I got it through revolut. I didn't look at the charges to see if there was anything better out there mind you.
Quote from: screenexile on February 09, 2021, 11:15:09 AM
Has anyone bought BTC through Revolut or what's the best way to buy??
Yeah that's how I bought it. Dunno if it's the best way but found it handy.
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 09, 2021, 11:15:09 AM
Has anyone bought BTC through Revolut or what's the best way to buy??
Yeah that's how I bought it. Dunno if it's the best way but found it handy.
Didnt even know you could buy through Revolut.
It is £33k now.
Do people really think it will continue to rise?
I use Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance. From what I understand with Revolut you are investing in their BTC fund on their platform and you don't actually own it and withdraw it. I could be wrong now but that's how it was anyway at first.
Quote from: thejuice on February 09, 2021, 11:32:26 AM
I use Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance. From what I understand with Revolut you are investing in their BTC fund on their platform and you don't actually own it and withdraw it. I could be wrong now but that's how it was anyway at first.
I think you're right. What is the difference in Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance? And what's the advantages for the part time messer like myself over Revolut?
Quote from: Taylor on February 09, 2021, 11:22:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 09, 2021, 11:15:09 AM
Has anyone bought BTC through Revolut or what's the best way to buy??
Yeah that's how I bought it. Dunno if it's the best way but found it handy.
Didnt even know you could buy through Revolut.
It is £33k now.
Do people really think it will continue to rise?
I think it'll go well over 100k. It's becoming more and more mainstream. But the key for me anyway is not to get in any deeper than you're prepared to lose.
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: thejuice on February 09, 2021, 11:32:26 AM
I use Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance. From what I understand with Revolut you are investing in their BTC fund on their platform and you don't actually own it and withdraw it. I could be wrong now but that's how it was anyway at first.
I think you're right. What is the difference in Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance? And what's the advantages for the part time messer like myself over Revolut?
Coinbase is very user friendly and good for beginners. But fees are ridiculous for buying but you can swap between coins for almost nothing.
Coinbase pro is more advanced but fees are relatively low.
Coinbase have a limited range of coins and trading pairs.
It also has a reputation of crashing when bitcoin makes a big move which isn't helpful if you're looking to make a quick sale.
Binance is the biggest trading platform and has a huge range of coins and trading pairs. Fees are reasonable.
If you're a beginner be aware of what you are buying as bitcoin and etherium have fees associated with moving them off the exchanges to a wallet. These fees can be very expensive especially with etherium or any coin that is based on it (called erc20 coins). This probably isn't a problem on revolut but if you're using Binance or Coinbase it's advised not to leave your coins on them for too long but you need to factor in the cost of moving your crypto.
Elon Musks Tesla have bought $1.5 BILLION worth and plan to use it as an accepted method of payment in the future.
To think there's people who still wont use a debit card.
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:42:14 AM
Quote from: Taylor on February 09, 2021, 11:22:55 AM
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 09, 2021, 11:15:09 AM
Has anyone bought BTC through Revolut or what's the best way to buy??
Yeah that's how I bought it. Dunno if it's the best way but found it handy.
Didnt even know you could buy through Revolut.
It is £33k now.
Do people really think it will continue to rise?
I think it'll go well over 100k. It's becoming more and more mainstream. But the key for me anyway is not to get in any deeper than you're prepared to lose.
Yeah those are my exact views too. Throw in a few k and if something comes of it well and good. It's a bit better than gambling but not all that much lol.
Although anything is possible you have to consider that there is only a finite supply of BTC and only so much is being released on the market. The likes of PayPal, Tesla, Revolut, Greyscale and a few others are already buying up more than the new supply can deliver so demand is only going to increase as other big players come on board like JP Morgan.
Now in theory the price shock keep going up for a good while but supply shocks can create volatility too. However these big players are likely hedging against inflation and are in for the longer term so unlikely to sell anytime soon but you never know for sure.
It's a high risk investment for sure but more stable now than 2017 and 2018.
Bitcoin is too slow and expensive for payments and it's actually more of a store of value.
The likes of XLM (Stellar) is fast and cheap for sending payments while XRP (also fast and cheap) has a use case for cross border payments.
Expect XRP to go through the roof when the SEC case is settled.
Yeah. I have a decent stash of XRP but I don't plan on selling it till at least 2025. Ripple won't be the only ones in the SEC crosshairs though.
Quote from: thejuice on February 09, 2021, 11:32:26 AM
I use Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance. From what I understand with Revolut you are investing in their BTC fund on their platform and you don't actually own it and withdraw it. I could be wrong now but that's how it was anyway at first.
This is correct. You can't move it off the platform or trade it.
Testing 50k, will go through it soon enough I expect. ETH also soaring. The first time I bought ETH (which I long since got rid of) it was at 45usd. Will go through 2k for sure.
Polkadot (DOT) is being heralded as what will replace ETH. I've done well with it so far, that and Kusama (KSM) are using the same network and are worth holding together. The gas prices with ETH or any ERC20 token is extortionate. I try and avoid holding any if I can but I do have some but can't afford to move it right now.
By the way if you own bitcoin and it's sitting in a wallet or on an exchange I recommend you open an account with Celsius. You'll get 4-5% APY on any BTC you store there and you get paid interest in BTC or their CEL token which will also appreciate in value with the rest of the crypto market. You'll get paid interest on accumulating CEL tokens as well so it has a big compounding effect the longer you hold. And you can withdraw your funds at any time.
If you want a referral link send me a pm and you might be able to claim some free bitcoin with your first deposit.
Quote from: thejuice on February 09, 2021, 12:04:09 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 09, 2021, 11:40:11 AM
Quote from: thejuice on February 09, 2021, 11:32:26 AM
I use Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance. From what I understand with Revolut you are investing in their BTC fund on their platform and you don't actually own it and withdraw it. I could be wrong now but that's how it was anyway at first.
I think you're right. What is the difference in Coinbase, Coinbase pro and Binance? And what's the advantages for the part time messer like myself over Revolut?
Coinbase is very user friendly and good for beginners. But fees are ridiculous for buying but you can swap between coins for almost nothing.
Coinbase pro is more advanced but fees are relatively low.
Coinbase have a limited range of coins and trading pairs.
It also has a reputation of crashing when bitcoin makes a big move which isn't helpful if you're looking to make a quick sale.
Binance is the biggest trading platform and has a huge range of coins and trading pairs. Fees are reasonable.
If you're a beginner be aware of what you are buying as bitcoin and etherium have fees associated with moving them off the exchanges to a wallet. These fees can be very expensive especially with etherium or any coin that is based on it (called erc20 coins). This probably isn't a problem on revolut but if you're using Binance or Coinbase it's advised not to leave your coins on them for too long but you need to factor in the cost of moving your crypto.
So I have a few £ in Ethereum which I purchased on Coinbase back in Jan 18, so it's only really improved recently. My question is, is it costing me to have it sitting here - I had no real intention on shifting it and was holding it more long term (possibly amateurish...)
No it's not costing you anything sitting there. There is a network fee if you move it to a wallet or another exchange.
As I said above you could earn interest on it somewhere else if it's just sitting there but obviously you should find out if what you would gain would offset the cost of moving it.
If it's on Coinbase and you don't want to move it you could swap some of it for Algorand (ALGO) or Tezos (XTZ). Coinbase are paying interest on those if you hold them there. Algorand is doing really well price wise lately.
Not financial advice.
Quote from: thejuice on February 12, 2021, 12:00:28 PM
No it's not costing you anything sitting there. There is a network fee if you move it to a wallet or another exchange.
As I said above you could earn interest on it somewhere else if it's just sitting there but obviously you should find out if what you would gain would offset the cost of moving it.
If it's on Coinbase and you don't want to move it you could swap some of it for Algorand (ALGO) or Tezos (XTZ). Coinbase are paying interest on those if you hold them there. Algorand is doing really well price wise lately.
Not financial advice.
So, what your saying is put everything I have in to magic beans...done!
Cheers, i'll probably just let it rest in my account so, as mentioned it's a small sum.
It's all about the Digital magic beans these days.
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
This guy....
https://abc7chicago.com/stefan-thomas-bitcoin-password-san-francisco/9652903/
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on February 18, 2021, 08:34:33 AM
This guy....
https://abc7chicago.com/stefan-thomas-bitcoin-password-san-francisco/9652903/
Quite a few stories like that out there. They was one in the UK a few years ago of a guy coming through a landfill to try and find a wallet he threw out.
And of course, there's the guy who bought the 10,000 BTC pizza...
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 18, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
You haven't missed the boat if you can find the right altcoin.
Bitcoin went up a good bit yesterday. XRP has dipped a bit. Hopefully still some mileage in it yet.
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 18, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
I mean the rate of the growth of it. I think it'll keep appreciating but there'll be many more dips and crashes before it settles down and is a reliable store of value.
It's definitely not good for the blood pressure lol
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 12:08:34 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 18, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
I mean the rate of the growth of it. I think it'll keep appreciating but there'll be many more dips and crashes before it settles down and is a reliable store of value.
Long term hold (5+ years) is how I'm playing it, with sums of money I'm comfortable losing outright, as its a pure gamble at this stage, but looks to be something there in the long term
I'm up 66% in the last 6 weeks
Bitcoin, Ethereum and Crypto.com coin - 2 of the more conventional and an alt
Hard not to feel like missed opportunities the last few years to get ahead of it but no point worrying about that, or chasing it too hard
Its highly volatile and sometimes I catch myself thinking 66% why not 300% ffs! Which is a ridiculous thought process driven by greed.
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 18, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
I listened to Dunphy's podcast with Chris Johns.
I still can't quite wrap my head around cryptocurrency.
And the whole "mining" thing consuming more electricity than some entire nations each year??
Quote from: tiempo on February 18, 2021, 12:48:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 12:08:34 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 18, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
I mean the rate of the growth of it. I think it'll keep appreciating but there'll be many more dips and crashes before it settles down and is a reliable store of value.
Long term hold (5+ years) is how I'm playing it, with sums of money I'm comfortable losing outright, as its a pure gamble at this stage, but looks to be something there in the long term
I'm up 66% in the last 6 weeks
Bitcoin, Ethereum and Crypto.com coin - 2 of the more conventional and an alt
Hard not to feel like missed opportunities the last few years to get ahead of it but no point worrying about that, or chasing it too hard
Its highly volatile and sometimes I catch myself thinking 66% why not 300% ffs! Which is a ridiculous thought process driven by greed.
This is basically me. Although I was only using Revolut now moving into Coinbase so definitely will have the house on it any day now.
I'm just using money I am comfortable losing like you said. It's a complete and utter punt. But if I am not a multi millionaire this time next week I will be very disappointed.
Long term hold is everybody's plan, bit how many people do you reckon who bought last year at 5k are still holding at 50k? Hard to ignore 10x returns if you've a sizeable chunk in it.
Quote from: trailer on February 18, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: tiempo on February 18, 2021, 12:48:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 12:08:34 PM
Quote from: JohnDenver on February 18, 2021, 09:26:38 AM
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: gallsman on December 31, 2020, 12:49:29 AM
Bitcoin about to go past 30k USD.
Bitcoin at 52k. Was 5k about a year ago. Crazy. And completely unsustainable, but when?
Even if you bought in when it went first went past its previous ATH in December you'd still have nearly tripled your money by now.
Do you mean when will it level out, or even crash?
What's your current position on it. It's been quite popular topic on recent podcasts. Listened to a few, David McWilliams, and an episode on the The Stand with Dunphy. You get conflicting views on it's long term viability.
I'm of the "missed the boat" mindset now regarding investing.
I mean the rate of the growth of it. I think it'll keep appreciating but there'll be many more dips and crashes before it settles down and is a reliable store of value.
Long term hold (5+ years) is how I'm playing it, with sums of money I'm comfortable losing outright, as its a pure gamble at this stage, but looks to be something there in the long term
I'm up 66% in the last 6 weeks
Bitcoin, Ethereum and Crypto.com coin - 2 of the more conventional and an alt
Hard not to feel like missed opportunities the last few years to get ahead of it but no point worrying about that, or chasing it too hard
Its highly volatile and sometimes I catch myself thinking 66% why not 300% ffs! Which is a ridiculous thought process driven by greed.
This is basically me. Although I was only using Revolut now moving into Coinbase so definitely will have the house on it any day now.
I'm just using money I am comfortable losing like you said. It's a complete and utter punt. But if I am not a multi millionaire this time next week I will be very disappointed.
Same here - it is a punt with "affordable" money though it disappoints me when it's not up by 10 times every time I look lol.
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2021, 12:57:16 PM
And the whole "mining" thing consuming more electricity than some entire nations each year??
This reflects that it is hard to make Bitcoin, otherwise it would be worth nothing at all.
One piece of advice....stay clear of OneCoin and Dr. Ruja Ignatova
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2021, 04:50:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2021, 12:57:16 PM
And the whole "mining" thing consuming more electricity than some entire nations each year??
This reflects that it is hard to make Bitcoin, otherwise it would be worth nothing at all.
Annually, the mining uses 4 times more electricity than what Ireland would consume and its mostly from dirty coal environment polluting generating stations,
so being hard to make (solving the computing task) ends up being a huge minus.
It costs the universe a huge slice of its lifespan and resources to create a bitcoin and after all that consumption of power, nothing of value is returned to the universe
At least in Ireland something good is achieved with electricity
Quote from: armaghniac on February 18, 2021, 04:50:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 18, 2021, 12:57:16 PM
And the whole "mining" thing consuming more electricity than some entire nations each year??
This reflects that it is hard to make Bitcoin, otherwise it would be worth nothing at all.
But what are they "mining"?
Why is it hard to make?
Bitcoin's code limits the total number that can be produced to 21m. The idea of this originally was to prevent it being influenced by any monetary policy like QE - you can't simply "print" new ones. I think there's currently about 900 a day mined and the final one is expected in 2140 or something like the.
The coins are produced as rewards for those providing the computational power that secures the blockchain and validates the transactions. The cryptographic algorithm ensures that this is sequentially more complex each time, so the amount of computational power (i.e. ultimately electricity) required is exponentially larger than what it was in the early days when anyone with a laptop could grab themselves a few coins.
Quote from: TabClear on January 19, 2021, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
What ye reckon lads, still a good time to buy crypto? Any recommendations on what currency?
Whatever you go for tattoo your password on the missus's back some night. This poor bastard :o :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55645408
We've all been there - brain fog makes us forget our password and after eight frantic attempts, we have just two left.
That's the situation for programmer Stefan Thomas but the stakes are higher than most - the forgotten password will let him unlock a hard drive containing $240m (£175m) worth of Bitcoin.
I wouldn't go near bitcoin if this is the way things work. If you lose your password go f**k yourself. There is no way of getting your money back. What happens to that money? It is 240 million we are talking about not a few quid. If the bank told me a few quid I had in an account was gone forever because I forgot a password I wouldn't accept that at all.
The other thing is what is driving the price increase that made 7000 bit coin worth a few dollars each worth 240 million dollars in a few years. Is it just more people piling money in? It looks like a bubble ready to pop.
Quote from: gallsman on February 18, 2021, 08:11:45 PM
Bitcoin's code limits the total number that can be produced to 21m. The idea of this originally was to prevent it being influenced by any monetary policy like QE - you can't simply "print" new ones. I think there's currently about 900 a day mined and the final one is expected in 2140 or something like the.
The coins are produced as rewards for those providing the computational power that secures the blockchain and validates the transactions. The cryptographic algorithm ensures that this is sequentially more complex each time, so the amount of computational power (i.e. ultimately electricity) required is exponentially larger than what it was in the early days when anyone with a laptop could grab themselves a few coins.
That is WAY over my head!
It's like abstract art; I just don't get it.
Thanks for trying though!
Quote from: Capt Pat on February 18, 2021, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: TabClear on January 19, 2021, 06:15:08 PM
Quote from: Itchy on January 19, 2021, 03:44:06 PM
What ye reckon lads, still a good time to buy crypto? Any recommendations on what currency?
Whatever you go for tattoo your password on the missus's back some night. This poor bastard :o :o
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55645408
We've all been there - brain fog makes us forget our password and after eight frantic attempts, we have just two left.
That's the situation for programmer Stefan Thomas but the stakes are higher than most - the forgotten password will let him unlock a hard drive containing $240m (£175m) worth of Bitcoin.
I wouldn't go near bitcoin if this is the way things work. If you lose your password go f**k yourself. There is no way of getting your money back. What happens to that money? It is 240 million we are talking about not a few quid. If the bank told me a few quid I had in an account was gone forever because I forgot a password I wouldn't accept that at all.
The other thing is what is driving the price increase that made 7000 bit coin worth a few dollars each worth 240 million dollars in a few years. Is it just more people piling money in? It looks like a bubble ready to pop.
Ridiculous analogy. There is no bank in bitcoin. You are responsible.
Lads just like any ponzi scheme just make sure you get out at the right time
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 19, 2021, 11:27:48 AM
Lads just like any ponzi scheme just make sure you get out at the right time
It's not a ponzo scheme, it's an asset that goes up and down in value but the general trend has been increase.
Not a cryptocurrency but $KMPH is a stock worth buying.
The last 24 hours or so haven't been so good for bitcoin or XRP
It was due a correction after going up so hard. If you look at the charts I think BTC has hit it's bottom at around $44,900. It's working it's way back up again now. I bought some more this morning. In my opinion, give it a few days it'll back over $50,000. It's not the first correction in the last 12 months.
Despite dropping quite a bit in the last few days if you're invested in this longer term you're probably still up massively. Party isn't over yet. Most of the coins I've invested in are still worth about more than double what I paid for them, in some cases 10 times. If you ever get fearful just zoom out and look at the big picture.
Cheers juice. Yes up 7% today so moving back a bit.
For anyone looking at investing I just did it quickly through revolut and the fees are a bit high with them so I would recommend the approaches other people are taking here to avoid as much in fees... Also tbh it is quite unclear up front what their fees are which is a bit annoying.
Binance/Kraken much better/cheaper options.
Which is better for the casual investor? Coinbase or Binance?
Hi Lads
Sorry if i come across as a complete idiot but i need some advice if possible. Im a young lads with around 3/4k saved in the bank. I am hearing and reading rave reviews about investing in cryptocurrency(mainly bitcoin). Would this be a good investment to make? Can i take my money out anytime i want? My money is taking no hurt sitting in my credit union, but it would be nice to make my money work for me and maybe make a few quid. All advice is greatly appreciated 😊
Don't come to a web 2.0 gaa discussion board looking for investment would be the first thing to say.
I think you'd get a decent return on bitcoin if you leave it for 5 years, possibly even 10x. Don't invest anything you're not prepared to lose. Crypto is highly, highly volatile.
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:28:51 PM
Which is better for the casual investor? Coinbase or Binance?
Depends on how you define casual investor. Coinbase's fees are sickening and easily avoided using better, cheaper exchanges that have more coin options, but the interface is far more complex and harder to navigate.
Quote from: samuel maguire on February 24, 2021, 01:23:24 PM
Hi Lads
Sorry if i come across as a complete idiot but i need some advice if possible. Im a young lads with around 3/4k saved in the bank. I am hearing and reading rave reviews about investing in cryptocurrency(mainly bitcoin). Would this be a good investment to make? Can i take my money out anytime i want? My money is taking no hurt sitting in my credit union, but it would be nice to make my money work for me and maybe make a few quid. All advice is greatly appreciated 😊
As someone pointed out if you're investing in Crypto you probably need to be prepared that you may end up losing your investment.
Alternatively you could create an account with Degiro or another online broker and use your cash to buy more established, less volatile equities.
In both scenarios you would be liable for CGT (33% in ROI) on any gains. There's an exemption up to about 1300 euro.
Another option is to invest in an Investment Trust such as Scottish Mortgage. It's a managed fund so there there will be management fees but they've been
around for years and their results for last year were excellent. Again you'd be liable for tax on any realised gains or dividends.
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:28:51 PM
Which is better for the casual investor? Coinbase or Binance?
Personally I would not touch Coinbase with a ten foot pole, I have my reasons but others may be OK with them. Occasionally I use Binance. I use Caleb & Brown, by far and away the best, you can talk to your own broker. Their customer service is fantastic. Their minimum is $2,000. For the regular client purchasing small amounts the fee is 3%. For bigger investors it's way less. Brilliant for purchasing altcoins, any amount. Peace of mind incomparable.
Crypto mass adoption not until 2025, so these are still early days. I'm involved since 2010. There are better coins to purchase than Bitcoin even though by '27 it will hit 1MM. I'm heavily invested in the top altcoins.
All cryptos say they are decentralized but very few are, For instance BTC is not, neither are ETH, BCH and LTC, the top coins. Digital Currency is part of The Great Reset if/when that comes around which now looks a certainty so everybody will be involved, no choice.
Quote from: Seamus on February 24, 2021, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:28:51 PM
Which is better for the casual investor? Coinbase or Binance?
Personally I would not touch Coinbase with a ten foot pole, I have my reasons but others may be OK with them. Occasionally I use Binance. I use Caleb & Brown, by far and away the best, you can talk to your own broker. Their customer service is fantastic. Their minimum is $2,000. For the regular client purchasing small amounts the fee is 3%. For bigger investors it's way less. Brilliant for purchasing altcoins, any amount. Peace of mind incomparable.
Crypto mass adoption not until 2025, so these are still early days. I'm involved since 2010. There are better coins to purchase than Bitcoin even though by '27 it will hit 1MM. I'm heavily invested in the top altcoins.
All cryptos say they are decentralized but very few are, For instance BTC is not, neither are ETH, BCH and LTC, the top coins. Digital Currency is part of The Great Reset if/when that comes around which now looks a certainty so everybody will be involved, no choice.
Well that's me convinced.
Quote from: LeoMc on February 24, 2021, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 24, 2021, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:28:51 PM
Which is better for the casual investor? Coinbase or Binance?
Personally I would not touch Coinbase with a ten foot pole, I have my reasons but others may be OK with them. Occasionally I use Binance. I use Caleb & Brown, by far and away the best, you can talk to your own broker. Their customer service is fantastic. Their minimum is $2,000. For the regular client purchasing small amounts the fee is 3%. For bigger investors it's way less. Brilliant for purchasing altcoins, any amount. Peace of mind incomparable.
Crypto mass adoption not until 2025, so these are still early days. I'm involved since 2010. There are better coins to purchase than Bitcoin even though by '27 it will hit 1MM. I'm heavily invested in the top altcoins.
All cryptos say they are decentralized but very few are, For instance BTC is not, neither are ETH, BCH and LTC, the top coins. Digital Currency is part of The Great Reset if/when that comes around which now looks a certainty so everybody will be involved, no choice.
Well that's me convinced.
Good man, let everyone else know why you are so convinced. Sure we're all here to help
I'm a bit sceptical about Crypto too if I'm honest... a few people I follow on Twitter have turned full Crypto and keep talking it up linking to massively favourable articles etc.
It has the air of the emperors new clothes people are that desperate to talk it up are they just doing this to inflate the price higher so they profit? Is it a real thing or is the value just made up like the football index or some of these random investments?
At the same time I'd hate to miss out but I'm definitely not convinced... "The Great Reset" sounds like an offshoot of Qanon!
Crypto is a bubble, same as everything else in the investmentworld. It is impossible to know when prices will fall..
Quote from: LeoMc on February 24, 2021, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 24, 2021, 02:54:26 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 24, 2021, 12:28:51 PM
Which is better for the casual investor? Coinbase or Binance?
Personally I would not touch Coinbase with a ten foot pole, I have my reasons but others may be OK with them. Occasionally I use Binance. I use Caleb & Brown, by far and away the best, you can talk to your own broker. Their customer service is fantastic. Their minimum is $2,000. For the regular client purchasing small amounts the fee is 3%. For bigger investors it's way less. Brilliant for purchasing altcoins, any amount. Peace of mind incomparable.
Crypto mass adoption not until 2025, so these are still early days. I'm involved since 2010. There are better coins to purchase than Bitcoin even though by '27 it will hit 1MM. I'm heavily invested in the top altcoins.
All cryptos say they are decentralized but very few are, For instance BTC is not, neither are ETH, BCH and LTC, the top coins. Digital Currency is part of The Great Reset if/when that comes around which now looks a certainty so everybody will be involved, no choice.
Well that's me convinced.
Read that and then instantly disregarded everything else he said.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8rAiTDQ-NVY
The Great Reset is real in the sense that the World Economic Forum used it as a tag line for their event in 2020, but apart from a bit of sloganeering I don't think there's any real plan being cooked up in some dark room to change the world. Just a load of hot air, inflated visions and elitist backslapping.
That doesn't stop people's imaginations running wild while they are locked in their homes for a year.
There was one already extremely wealthy individual with a YouTube channel going full on tinfoil hat about how Donald Trump was orchestrating the Great Reset using XRP that would be gifted to everyone on the planet and make us all millionaires overnight or something like that. Unfortunately the crypto space isn't immune to this modern form of quackery.
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2021, 07:26:31 PM
I'm a bit sceptical about Crypto too if I'm honest... a few people I follow on Twitter have turned full Crypto and keep talking it up linking to massively favourable articles etc.
It has the air of the emperors new clothes people are that desperate to talk it up are they just doing this to inflate the price higher so they profit? Is it a real thing or is the value just made up like the football index or some of these random investments?
At the same time I'd hate to miss out but I'm definitely not convinced... "The Great Reset" sounds like an offshoot of Qanon!
The lack of knowledge on this forum never seems to amaze me. The Great Reset is very real, part of Agenda 2030. Their slogan was "Own Nothing And Be Happy". It was taken down when the sugar coating was dismantled and seen for what it really is, total enslavement and total lack of privacy. Unfortunately the dumbed down will be crying out for it. A lazy Google search of The Great Reset will bring up Wikipedia, the sugar coated version with a Qanon twist. Qanon is a PHY OPP, some truths and plenty of lies.
I tried to help the crypto newbies on here, all I received in return was an uneducated sarcastic remark coupled with a few juvenile posts. Just shows who I'm dealing with when The Great Reset is Googled instead of Caleb and Brown. My intentions were to explain the Blockchain in an easy to understand way, advice on wallets, staking, forks (how not to make costly mistakes), security and a lot lot more. This has come to an abrupt end. There are people here wasting a few hours every day on this forum patting each other on the backs and ridiculing those with a different opinion. Those people do not deserve any help.
Jamie Dimon and Warren Buffet were putting down BTC for years while buying it hand over fist. All the major banks are doing likewise. Large companies are adding it to their pension funds. We were told Elon Musk just purchased 1.5B BTC a few weeks ago when he has being buying it for years while promoting a worthless Dogecoin as a deception. So carry on reading your fake news.
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:47:17 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2021, 07:26:31 PM
I'm a bit sceptical about Crypto too if I'm honest... a few people I follow on Twitter have turned full Crypto and keep talking it up linking to massively favourable articles etc.
It has the air of the emperors new clothes people are that desperate to talk it up are they just doing this to inflate the price higher so they profit? Is it a real thing or is the value just made up like the football index or some of these random investments?
At the same time I'd hate to miss out but I'm definitely not convinced... "The Great Reset" sounds like an offshoot of Qanon!
The lack of knowledge on this forum never seems to amaze me. The Great Reset is very real, part of Agenda 2030. Their slogan was "Own Nothing And Be Happy". It was taken down when the sugar coating was dismantled and seen for what it really is, total enslavement and total lack of privacy. Unfortunately the dumbed down will be crying out for it. A lazy Google search of The Great Reset will bring up Wikipedia, the sugar coated version with a Qanon twist. Qanon is a PHY OPP, some truths and plenty of lies.
I tried to help the crypto newbies on here, all I received in return was an uneducated sarcastic remark coupled with a few juvenile posts. Just shows who I'm dealing with when The Great Reset is Googled instead of Caleb and Brown. My intentions were to explain the Blockchain in an easy to understand way, advice on wallets, staking, forks (how not to make costly mistakes), security and a lot lot more. This has come to an abrupt end. There are people here wasting a few hours every day on this forum patting each other on the backs and ridiculing those with a different opinion. Those people do not deserve any help.
Jamie Dimon and Warren Buffet were putting down BTC for years while buying it hand over fist. All the major banks are doing likewise. Large companies are adding it to their pension funds. We were told Elon Musk just purchased 1.5B BTC a few weeks ago when he has being buying it for years while promoting a worthless Dogecoin as a deception. So carry on reading your fake news.
Excellent post.
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:47:17 AM
Quote from: screenexile on February 24, 2021, 07:26:31 PM
I'm a bit sceptical about Crypto too if I'm honest... a few people I follow on Twitter have turned full Crypto and keep talking it up linking to massively favourable articles etc.
It has the air of the emperors new clothes people are that desperate to talk it up are they just doing this to inflate the price higher so they profit? Is it a real thing or is the value just made up like the football index or some of these random investments?
At the same time I'd hate to miss out but I'm definitely not convinced... "The Great Reset" sounds like an offshoot of Qanon!
The lack of knowledge on this forum never seems to amaze me. The Great Reset is very real, part of Agenda 2030. Their slogan was "Own Nothing And Be Happy". It was taken down when the sugar coating was dismantled and seen for what it really is, total enslavement and total lack of privacy. Unfortunately the dumbed down will be crying out for it. A lazy Google search of The Great Reset will bring up Wikipedia, the sugar coated version with a Qanon twist. Qanon is a PHY OPP, some truths and plenty of lies.
I tried to help the crypto newbies on here, all I received in return was an uneducated sarcastic remark coupled with a few juvenile posts. Just shows who I'm dealing with when The Great Reset is Googled instead of Caleb and Brown. My intentions were to explain the Blockchain in an easy to understand way, advice on wallets, staking, forks (how not to make costly mistakes), security and a lot lot more. This has come to an abrupt end. There are people here wasting a few hours every day on this forum patting each other on the backs and ridiculing those with a different opinion. Those people do not deserve any help.
Jamie Dimon and Warren Buffet were putting down BTC for years while buying it hand over fist. All the major banks are doing likewise. Large companies are adding it to their pension funds. We were told Elon Musk just purchased 1.5B BTC a few weeks ago when he has being buying it for years while promoting a worthless Dogecoin as a deception. So carry on reading your fake news.
I am interested in what you have to say Seamus. I dont know a lot about this but it is fascinating.
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:45:04 PM
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
This is absolute bullshit put out by Musk. Bitcoin is a) fundamentally unsuitable as a means of exchange because of the slowness of the transaction processing and the fees involved and b) the volatility is completely unacceptable to both buyers and sellers.
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:45:04 PM
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
This is absolute bullshit put out by Musk. Bitcoin is a) fundamentally unsuitable as a means of exchange because of the slowness of the transaction processing and the fees involved and b) the volatility is completely unacceptable to both buyers and sellers.
Regarding "the great digital reset" I know a fella who won't put Google maps on his phone because he is afraid google will invoice him, so if you think in 5 or 10 years there is gonna be some big digital reset and traditional banks cease to exist then you're in cloud cuckoo land. Crypto is what it is. I'm only in it because I have a few pound that I want to speculate with and if I win, I win, if I lose it, so be it. I am not thinking about going out and buying a Tesla with Bitcoin.
Crypto Currencies have a long way to go before they become more mainstream and they need to become more stable before that and arguably they can't become mainstream until they stabilise. And what's furthermore there are people who rely heavily on good old fashioned cash. They know it and they trust it. Them people aren't going to adopt Bitcoin or any other currency for that matter in a few years.
Quote from: trailer on February 25, 2021, 02:05:27 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:45:04 PM
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
This is absolute bullshit put out by Musk. Bitcoin is a) fundamentally unsuitable as a means of exchange because of the slowness of the transaction processing and the fees involved and b) the volatility is completely unacceptable to both buyers and sellers.
Regarding "the great digital reset" I know a fella who won't put Google maps on his phone because he is afraid google will invoice him, so if you think in 5 or 10 years there is gonna be some big digital reset and traditional banks cease to exist then you're in cloud cuckoo land. Crypto is what it is. I'm only in it because I have a few pound that I want to speculate with and if I win, I win, if I lose it, so be it. I am not thinking about going out and buying a Tesla with Bitcoin.
Crypto Currencies have a long way to go before they become more mainstream and they need to become more stable before that and arguably they can't become mainstream until they stabilise. And what's furthermore there are people who rely heavily on good old fashioned cash. They know it and they trust it. Them people aren't going to adopt Bitcoin or any other currency for that matter in a few years.
Central bank governors are constantly criticising bitcoin and last month the EU Central Bank president Chritine Lagarde claimed bitcoin is being used for money laundering. While cyrpto currencies will no doubt be used in future it is much more likely the EU will creat their own curreny like they did with the euro than deal with bitcoin
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
In that case HSBC and Wells Fargo should have their billion dollar fines returned. Wall Street is also a haven for money laundering. If Christine Lagarde is criticizing BTC it's time to buy. She fully realizes that the majority of people that have heard about crypto only know of BTC. Mass adoption can wait for another four years while the prices of all coins are still low especially some fantastic altcoins that can be purchased for pennies.
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
In that case HSBC and Wells Fargo should have their billion dollar fines returned. Wall Street is also a haven for money laundering. If Christine Lagarde is criticizing BTC it's time to buy. She fully realizes that the majority of people that have heard about crypto only know of BTC. Mass adoption can wait for another four years while the prices of all coins are still low especially some fantastic altcoins that can be purchased for pennies.
Genuine question. Is there any regulations for bitcoin, crypto currencies etc?
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
In that case HSBC and Wells Fargo should have their billion dollar fines returned. Wall Street is also a haven for money laundering. If Christine Lagarde is criticizing BTC it's time to buy. She fully realizes that the majority of people that have heard about crypto only know of BTC. Mass adoption can wait for another four years while the prices of all coins are still low especially some fantastic altcoins that can be purchased for pennies.
What Altcoins would you recommend Seamus?
Does it tick the boxes of key Characteristics of Money
Durability - Yes
Portable - Yes
Divisible - Yes
Hard to counterfeit - Yes
Must be generally accepted by a population - No or Not Yet
Valuable – Depends on the currency but remains to be seen
Does it tick the boxes of key functions of money:
Medium of exchange - Yes, but inefficient and slow
Store of value: People need to trust it, but given the volatility, it's hard to say that it provides an absolutely reliable store of value
Unit of account: To an extent, but given the level of volatility it would be hard to use it as a unit of account. Would I want to get paid in BTC - don't think so. Would I invest in it - yes, but only money I can afford to lose?
Standard of deferred payment: for the exact same reasons as above, would I want to borrow or lend in BTC given the volatility
fiat currencies are finished, they are printing far too much of it and will lead to hyper inflation.
the end started when the dollar was no longer backed by gold.
bitcoin is digital gold and will replace physical gold as a store of value.
anyone with money in a bank is crazy imo.
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 04:20:10 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
In that case HSBC and Wells Fargo should have their billion dollar fines returned. Wall Street is also a haven for money laundering. If Christine Lagarde is criticizing BTC it's time to buy. She fully realizes that the majority of people that have heard about crypto only know of BTC. Mass adoption can wait for another four years while the prices of all coins are still low especially some fantastic altcoins that can be purchased for pennies.
Genuine question. Is there any regulations for bitcoin, crypto currencies etc?
Yes and no depending on what part of the world you are talking about and what three letter agencies. The SEC do not consider BTC a security along with other cryptos therefore no regulations. Of course this could change. The IRS on the other hand have taxing implications mainly through exchanges like Coinbase and Gemini and will cast the net as wide as possible. The FTC regulates certain trading platforms. The European Union has far greater regulations while some countries do not allow cryptos whatsoever.
Quote from: Itchy on February 25, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
In that case HSBC and Wells Fargo should have their billion dollar fines returned. Wall Street is also a haven for money laundering. If Christine Lagarde is criticizing BTC it's time to buy. She fully realizes that the majority of people that have heard about crypto only know of BTC. Mass adoption can wait for another four years while the prices of all coins are still low especially some fantastic altcoins that can be purchased for pennies.
What Altcoins would you recommend Seamus?
Itchy, it is very difficult for me to recommend coins on an open forum. We all should know by now how volatile cryptos can be. It's very important to have the proper mindset when investing, in fact it's the #1 criteria. Most people do not but they certainly can develop it, I had to. By following Elliot Wave most coins are at the present time in wave 3 of 5 which means on the way up. There will also be corrections along the way as nothing goes up in a straight line. This should last until June when I expect most cryptos will then enter wave 4 and a big pull back. Then wave 5 where we should see massive gains by the end if 2021. I have figures made out for all my coins. Of course the graphs need constant reviewing as everything can change. Remember BTC is the leader and altcoins generally follow suit even if their graph goes down their price can increase. All to do with the Satochi.
I may private message you with one or two coins as you were the first to reach out and you come across as genuinely needing help. Also I rarely come on this forum, have gone missing for a year at a time in the past to a lot of members delight :).
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 09:27:18 PM
Quote from: Itchy on February 25, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: Seamus on February 25, 2021, 04:10:49 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on February 25, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 03:30:37 PM
Every currency and commodity in the world is used for money laundering.
@trailer... What's the age profile of a typical person who only uses cash do you think?
They're not called out by the head of the european central bank though and there are policies in place to stop people using banks from money laundering that aren't there for cyrpto currencies
In that case HSBC and Wells Fargo should have their billion dollar fines returned. Wall Street is also a haven for money laundering. If Christine Lagarde is criticizing BTC it's time to buy. She fully realizes that the majority of people that have heard about crypto only know of BTC. Mass adoption can wait for another four years while the prices of all coins are still low especially some fantastic altcoins that can be purchased for pennies.
What Altcoins would you recommend Seamus?
Itchy, it is very difficult for me to recommend coins on an open forum. We all should know by now how volatile cryptos can be. It's very important to have the proper mindset when investing, in fact it's the #1 criteria. Most people do not but they certainly can develop it, I had to. By following Elliot Wave most coins are at the present time in wave 3 of 5 which means on the way up. There will also be corrections along the way as nothing goes up in a straight line. This should last until June when I expect most cryptos will then enter wave 4 and a big pull back. Then wave 5 where we should see massive gains by the end if 2021. I have figures made out for all my coins. Of course the graphs need constant reviewing as everything can change. Remember BTC is the leader and altcoins generally follow suit even if their graph goes down their price can increase. All to do with the Satochi.
I may private message you with one or two coins as you were the first to reach out and you come across as genuinely needing help. Also I rarely come on this forum, have gone missing for a year at a time in the past to a lot of members delight :).
Thanks Sesmus, I appreciate that.
Jesus this mass adoption bullshit all over again.
Honesty is there anyone on here actually using (as opposed to simply holding) cryptocurrency? 99.99% of cryptocurrency trading is as speculation. Doesn't make them worth anything at all.
I considered buying bitcoin this time last year after things dropped in March, Tesla too, while they were still punts, but long story short I didn't. In hindsight it would have been a massive windfall.
Now though, bitcoin looks very risky to me and hugely speculative. I wouldn't like to be holding, buying at current prices. I get the "this is the future" vibe, and I know it is a massive industry that has hugely effected worldwide business and investment, but I cannot get my head around the valuation for what is esentially a code, medium of exchange, call it what you want. Some people are predicting it to go to 1 million soon. At 22 million of them in the chain, that puts the valuation at $22 trillion. All in the hands of those who got in early. And those not holding? That's one hell of a wealth re-adjustment when you can just create another crypto. Tulips in Holland come to mind.
Having said all that I don't mind a punt and I think crypto will be a thing but confused at what to buy. No interest in speculating, just buy something cheap to hold and see if they take off. I have been recommended XRP some time ago. How do people think it will go?
Blockchain technology will be used in the future for sure but which cryptocurrencies will still be around remains to be seen. I'm only in it for the money to be quite honest but that being said there are some clear use cases see VeChain for example but there's still a bit of work to do to make mass adoption a reality. The PayID project is one example of how they want to make sending money as easy as sending a text or email. While for many end users they can already do this but the checking and back of house stuff that we don't see is what will be improved. It should make banking cheaper and quicker, sending international payments will become something that takes seconds not days.
Right now it's like the dot com bubble. There will be some big winners in the long term but a lot of speculation going on right now. There's a lot of crypto projects that will be swept away either with more regulatory clarity or just becoming obsolete. It's a bit like the wild west at the moment but there's no denying that there is a lot money to be made.
Bitcoins biggest problems as a means of everyday payments is it's too slow, too costly to send and it uses masses of energy that can't be sustained. As a store of value it's great but that's largely down to it's got the name recognition and good tokenomics. XRP is light years better as a means of everyday payments. It is the opposite of bitcoin in the sense that there is loads of it to go around (100bn) it's lightning fast, costs almost nothing to use and it's energy consumption is the equivalent of a lightbulb.
A few of us got together and mined for crypto about 6 years ago when this was all in its infancy. Our crypto of choice was Litecoin, as it took a lot longer to produce a Bitcoin with our fairly basic mining equipment. Nevertheless we produced about 2 Bitcoins and 15 Litecoin (we punted on it being the next big thing). But after a few months the novelty wore off and emptied our wallets to reimburse the set up costs and make a small but tidy profit, around the time Bitcoin was worth around £2k!
Maybe we should have kept her lit a bit longer lol.
Never bothered with the mining but it's mental the money behind it. Think you did ok, I'd imagine that the more sophisticated technology needed to mine as more bitcoin unlocked would have made the upgrade costs prohibitive anyway.
The whole craze pissed off a lot of gamers though and put graphics card prices through the roof. Crazy to think what it done to share prices for the likes of Nvidia and the other big manufacturer (can't think of name). They couldn't make the things quick enough and made a lot of shareholders very rich. Just goes to show there's always money to be made and lost and more than one way to skin a cat.
Quote from: Look-Up! on March 01, 2021, 12:13:00 AMCrazy to think what it done to share prices for the likes of Nvidia and the other big manufacturer (can't think of name).
AMD, just the maker of the best CPUs on the planet right now... 8)
Quote from: trileacman on February 27, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
Jesus this mass adoption bullshit all over again.
Honesty is there anyone on here actually using (as opposed to simply holding) cryptocurrency? 99.99% of cryptocurrency trading is as speculation. Doesn't make them worth anything at all.
It's 1997 and crpytocurrency is the World Wide Web.
Yes it's clunky and slow to complete a transaction but can anyone remember what dial up Internet was like in the late 90s? It would be unusable by today's standards but we worked at it and it got better and better.
Through every dip and crash hurled at it, crypto has come back stronger and stronger each time. 1 bitcoin will be worth $100k by the end of 2022. Bookmark this page if you want to prove me wrong.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2021, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 27, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
Jesus this mass adoption bullshit all over again.
Honesty is there anyone on here actually using (as opposed to simply holding) cryptocurrency? 99.99% of cryptocurrency trading is as speculation. Doesn't make them worth anything at all.
It's 1997 and crpytocurrency is the World Wide Web.
Yes it's clunky and slow to complete a transaction but can anyone remember what dial up Internet was like in the late 90s? It would be unusable by today's standards but we worked at it and it got better and better.
Through every dip and crash hurled at it, crypto has come back stronger and stronger each time. 1 bitcoin will be worth $100k by the end of 2022. Bookmark this page if you want to prove me wrong.
That's where XRP comes in.
Quote from: clarshack on March 01, 2021, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2021, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 27, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
Jesus this mass adoption bullshit all over again.
Honesty is there anyone on here actually using (as opposed to simply holding) cryptocurrency? 99.99% of cryptocurrency trading is as speculation. Doesn't make them worth anything at all.
It's 1997 and crpytocurrency is the World Wide Web.
Yes it's clunky and slow to complete a transaction but can anyone remember what dial up Internet was like in the late 90s? It would be unusable by today's standards but we worked at it and it got better and better.
Through every dip and crash hurled at it, crypto has come back stronger and stronger each time. 1 bitcoin will be worth $100k by the end of 2022. Bookmark this page if you want to prove me wrong.
That's where XRP comes in.
Pissy that you can't buy it at the minute on Coinbase.
I'm all in anyway. Crypto is the new gold and I have a coinbase account and am up and running. I intend to buy Bitcoin and a few other Altcoins regularly going forward.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2021, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 27, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
Jesus this mass adoption bullshit all over again.
Honesty is there anyone on here actually using (as opposed to simply holding) cryptocurrency? 99.99% of cryptocurrency trading is as speculation. Doesn't make them worth anything at all.
It's 1997 and crpytocurrency is the World Wide Web.
Yes it's clunky and slow to complete a transaction but can anyone remember what dial up Internet was like in the late 90s? It would be unusable by today's standards but we worked at it and it got better and better.
Through every dip and crash hurled at it, crypto has come back stronger and stronger each time. 1 bitcoin will be worth $100k by the end of 2022. Bookmark this page if you want to prove me wrong.
Is that all?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2021, 07:33:21 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on March 01, 2021, 12:13:00 AMCrazy to think what it done to share prices for the likes of Nvidia and the other big manufacturer (can't think of name).
AMD, just the maker of the best CPUs on the planet right now... 8)
Yes they're the ones. I'll take your word for it on the CPUs, out of interest is that graphics or computer CPU you're referring to?
In any case both of them have done well out of the scramble for graphics CPUs from the mining community. Just from a quick check, if you had bought shares in AMD 5 years ago you would have seen well over 4000% return on your investment. For Nvidia a more modest 1500%. Maybe not as exciting as investing in crypto but certainly a safer bet than trying to guess which coins would make it.
Quote from: clarshack on March 01, 2021, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 01, 2021, 12:30:39 PM
Quote from: trileacman on February 27, 2021, 10:12:48 PM
Jesus this mass adoption bullshit all over again.
Honesty is there anyone on here actually using (as opposed to simply holding) cryptocurrency? 99.99% of cryptocurrency trading is as speculation. Doesn't make them worth anything at all.
It's 1997 and crpytocurrency is the World Wide Web.
Yes it's clunky and slow to complete a transaction but can anyone remember what dial up Internet was like in the late 90s? It would be unusable by today's standards but we worked at it and it got better and better.
Through every dip and crash hurled at it, crypto has come back stronger and stronger each time. 1 bitcoin will be worth $100k by the end of 2022. Bookmark this page if you want to prove me wrong.
That's where XRP comes in.
XRP will do extremely well but nothing compared to XLM which is a hard fork of it. Close to the same price at the moment but that is soon to drastically change.
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2021, 07:03:05 AM
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Personally I would never take advice on cryptocurrency from a person that never owned nor intends to own it in the future. I do agree with him in that XRP is not decentralized. XPR will still be around in say 2025 and by the end of this year alone may probably do a 40X from today's price and will at some stage reach 100 bucks. Not too shabby for a coin that is a "pure scam and will do fookin nuttin". I never had XRP and never will, not in my top 20. This the last word I will say on the matter.
Quote from: Seamus on March 03, 2021, 02:37:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2021, 07:03:05 AM
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Personally I would never take advice on cryptocurrency from a person that never owned nor intends to own it in the future. I do agree with him in that XRP is not decentralized. XPR will still be around in say 2025 and by the end of this year alone may probably do a 40X from today's price and will at some stage reach 100 bucks. Not too shabby for a coin that is a "pure scam and will do fookin nuttin". I never had XRP and never will, not in my top 20. This the last word I will say on the matter.
a) it's an exposé, not investment advice
b) the chances of XRP ever hitting $100 are precisely zero.
Quote from: gallsman on March 03, 2021, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 03, 2021, 02:37:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2021, 07:03:05 AM
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Personally I would never take advice on cryptocurrency from a person that never owned nor intends to own it in the future. I do agree with him in that XRP is not decentralized. XPR will still be around in say 2025 and by the end of this year alone may probably do a 40X from today's price and will at some stage reach 100 bucks. Not too shabby for a coin that is a "pure scam and will do fookin nuttin". I never had XRP and never will, not in my top 20. This the last word I will say on the matter.
a) it's an exposé, not investment advice
b) the chances of XRP ever hitting $100 are precisely zero.
who knows but whenever the SEC case gets settled it will at least get to it's previous ATH which is approx 8X from it's current price. not a bad wee profit to be had.
Quote from: Seamus on March 03, 2021, 02:37:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2021, 07:03:05 AM
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Personally I would never take advice on cryptocurrency from a person that never owned nor intends to own it in the future. I do agree with him in that XRP is not decentralized. XPR will still be around in say 2025 and by the end of this year alone may probably do a 40X from today's price and will at some stage reach 100 bucks. Not too shabby for a coin that is a "pure scam and will do fookin nuttin". I never had XRP and never will, not in my top 20. This the last word I will say on the matter.
What is the difference between XRP and XPR?
Chainlink (LINK) - the god protocol - bigger and more valuable than Eth in years to come.
Il let you do your own research.
Quote from: TheGreatest on March 03, 2021, 12:42:25 PM
Chainlink (LINK) - the god protocol - bigger and more valuable than Eth in years to come.
Il let you do your own research.
I have some Link. Promising but dodgy centralisation/ownership of it.
Polkadot ecosystem is going to be big I think.
anyone else hold BAT? bought mine around 0.20c so its done well since and will continue to do so imo. it has a good use case with the Brave web browser too.
Anyone hold ADA or have any opinion on it?
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 22, 2021, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on February 19, 2021, 11:27:48 AM
Lads just like any ponzi scheme just make sure you get out at the right time
It's not a ponzo scheme, it's an asset that goes up and down in value but the general trend has been increase.
Not a cryptocurrency but $KMPH is a stock worth buying.
The drug was approved by FDA with "best in class" label, the best possible outcome. Stock has nearly doubled since yesterday. Hopefully someone listened to this!
Quote from: Look-Up! on March 01, 2021, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on March 01, 2021, 07:33:21 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on March 01, 2021, 12:13:00 AMCrazy to think what it done to share prices for the likes of Nvidia and the other big manufacturer (can't think of name).
AMD, just the maker of the best CPUs on the planet right now... 8)
Yes they're the ones. I'll take your word for it on the CPUs, out of interest is that graphics or computer CPU you're referring to?
In any case both of them have done well out of the scramble for graphics CPUs from the mining community. Just from a quick check, if you had bought shares in AMD 5 years ago you would have seen well over 4000% return on your investment. For Nvidia a more modest 1500%. Maybe not as exciting as investing in crypto but certainly a safer bet than trying to guess which coins would make it.
CPUs.
The shares in AMD have multiplied because they've went from literally nowhere (Excavator) to top dog (Zen3) in the CPU market over that time period.
Quote from: APM on March 03, 2021, 11:33:44 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 03, 2021, 02:37:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2021, 07:03:05 AM
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Personally I would never take advice on cryptocurrency from a person that never owned nor intends to own it in the future. I do agree with him in that XRP is not decentralized. XPR will still be around in say 2025 and by the end of this year alone may probably do a 40X from today's price and will at some stage reach 100 bucks. Not too shabby for a coin that is a "pure scam and will do fookin nuttin". I never had XRP and never will, not in my top 20. This the last word I will say on the matter.
What is the difference between XRP and XPR?
Just a typo APM
Seems like there is a Liquidity Swap on the horizon where a large amount of funds will go into altcoins. BTC dominance will slightly go down. As usual this will be followed by some altcoin profit taking. Doubling of one's holdings in a real possibility on the re-entry. Participants will need nerves is steel.
Quote from: Seamus on March 04, 2021, 12:07:52 AM
Quote from: APM on March 03, 2021, 11:33:44 AM
Quote from: Seamus on March 03, 2021, 02:37:26 AM
Quote from: gallsman on March 02, 2021, 07:03:05 AM
XRP, to quote a certain Dubliner, will do fookin' nuttin'. Pure scam and always has been.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbloomberg/2019/03/01/is-ripple-a-scam/
Personally I would never take advice on cryptocurrency from a person that never owned nor intends to own it in the future. I do agree with him in that XRP is not decentralized. XPR will still be around in say 2025 and by the end of this year alone may probably do a 40X from today's price and will at some stage reach 100 bucks. Not too shabby for a coin that is a "pure scam and will do fookin nuttin". I never had XRP and never will, not in my top 20. This the last word I will say on the matter.
What is the difference between XRP and XPR?
Just a typo APM
https://ripple.com/insights/ripple-pilots-a-private-ledger-for-central-banks-launching-cbdcs/?fbclid=IwAR0Ljahw23Pjkppr-y4jAjhR7R5eiAs3tAMEmFwPhZgLtLdedG9dsUXC2hc
We'll see where this goes. XRP can be used in this new ledger to bridge CBDCs but it seems not necessary though, it's optional like in the Ripples current set up.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/mar/06/football-index-customers-furious-market-crash?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Anybody bother with the Football Index??
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:45:04 PM
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
This is absolute bullshit put out by Musk. Bitcoin is a) fundamentally unsuitable as a means of exchange because of the slowness of the transaction processing and the fees involved and b) the volatility is completely unacceptable to both buyers and sellers.
Well this has aged well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/elon-musk-tesla-is-now-accepting-bitcoin-for-car-purchases-12255156 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/elon-musk-tesla-is-now-accepting-bitcoin-for-car-purchases-12255156)
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2021, 10:55:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:45:04 PM
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
This is absolute bullshit put out by Musk. Bitcoin is a) fundamentally unsuitable as a means of exchange because of the slowness of the transaction processing and the fees involved and b) the volatility is completely unacceptable to both buyers and sellers.
Well this has aged well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/elon-musk-tesla-is-now-accepting-bitcoin-for-car-purchases-12255156 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/elon-musk-tesla-is-now-accepting-bitcoin-for-car-purchases-12255156)
you could use it as payment for the likes of this scenario but not when you need the payment to process in a few seconds i.e when in a grocery shop, as there are other crypto that would be more suitable.
Quote from: RedHand88 on March 24, 2021, 10:55:10 PM
Quote from: gallsman on February 25, 2021, 01:57:06 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 25, 2021, 01:45:04 PM
Tesla, who will be the world's biggest car manufacturer within 20 years when we all switch to electric, are planning to use BTC as currency soon. They have purchased $1.5 BILLION worth, which Seamus alluded to.
So no, it's not a ponzi scheme, a fad or a scam. It's real and it's the future. Enjoy your 0.5% interest savings accounts lads!
This is absolute bullshit put out by Musk. Bitcoin is a) fundamentally unsuitable as a means of exchange because of the slowness of the transaction processing and the fees involved and b) the volatility is completely unacceptable to both buyers and sellers.
Well this has aged well.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/elon-musk-tesla-is-now-accepting-bitcoin-for-car-purchases-12255156 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/elon-musk-tesla-is-now-accepting-bitcoin-for-car-purchases-12255156)
There is an enormous difference between what Elon Musk tweets and what happens in the real world.
If you have a choice between paying for a car with an asset that can appreciate (bitcoin or other crypto) or dollars/pounds which lose value over time, you'd most likely pay with the latter. Obviously you'll need to spend your crypto at some point but the feeling would be that you could be selling the golden goose.
Quote from: clarshack on February 09, 2021, 02:45:35 PM
Bitcoin is too slow and expensive for payments and it's actually more of a store of value.
The likes of XLM (Stellar) is fast and cheap for sending payments while XRP (also fast and cheap) has a use case for cross border payments.
Expect XRP to go through the roof when the SEC case is settled.
XRP was approx $0.45 when I wrote this and now it's over a dollar. Who was it here that called it a scam?
XLM being doing well since this as well.
Quote from: clarshack on April 06, 2021, 01:56:57 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 09, 2021, 02:45:35 PM
Bitcoin is too slow and expensive for payments and it's actually more of a store of value.
The likes of XLM (Stellar) is fast and cheap for sending payments while XRP (also fast and cheap) has a use case for cross border payments.
Expect XRP to go through the roof when the SEC case is settled.
XRP was approx $0.45 when I wrote this and now it's over a dollar. Who was it here that called it a scam?
XLM being doing well since this as well.
Really got into this over the past 3 months. Made a lot on XRP. Will probably take my stake out. Balls deep in Cardano and it's performing well. Have a long term position in Bitcoin.
Quote from: trailer on April 06, 2021, 02:43:41 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 06, 2021, 01:56:57 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 09, 2021, 02:45:35 PM
Bitcoin is too slow and expensive for payments and it's actually more of a store of value.
The likes of XLM (Stellar) is fast and cheap for sending payments while XRP (also fast and cheap) has a use case for cross border payments.
Expect XRP to go through the roof when the SEC case is settled.
XRP was approx $0.45 when I wrote this and now it's over a dollar. Who was it here that called it a scam?
XLM being doing well since this as well.
Really got into this over the past 3 months. Made a lot on XRP. Will probably take my stake out. Balls deep in Cardano and it's performing well. Have a long term position in Bitcoin.
Keep a bag of XRP if you can. Even just a small one.
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
sign up to binance
get verified
start trading
good luck
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
I don't get Ethereum. What's is the upside to it? It's slow and costly. I just don't understand the value in it.
Cheers gents! Will look into Binance tonight..
Is there any pages/forums you follow on trends/pairs to sway towards/avoid?
Say a hypothetical £2000 pot to play with... Yey/Ney on Polkadot over another coin per say?
Quote from: trailer on April 07, 2021, 04:00:12 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
I don't get Ethereum. What's is the upside to it? It's slow and costly. I just don't understand the value in it.
All those coins that build on the Ethereum platform must know something that you don't know.
Quote from: Seamus on April 07, 2021, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 07, 2021, 04:00:12 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
I don't get Ethereum. What's is the upside to it? It's slow and costly. I just don't understand the value in it.
All those coins that build on the Ethereum platform must know something that you don't know.
Obviously not as they're all trying to fix the inefficiency's in the network. Ether is overvalued massively IMO
Fella I know was 130k up yesterday, 85k of that shaved off today. This man works the typical 9-5. I dont know how these boys sleep at night.
Wtf happened today?
Quote from: trailer on April 07, 2021, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 07, 2021, 05:02:14 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 07, 2021, 04:00:12 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
I don't get Ethereum. What's is the upside to it? It's slow and costly. I just don't understand the value in it.
All those coins that build on the Ethereum platform must know something that you don't know.
Obviously not as they're all trying to fix the inefficiency's in the network. Ether is overvalued massively IMO
So where do you expect ETH to go from here?
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 07, 2021, 06:45:00 PM
Fella I know was 130k up yesterday, 85k of that shaved off today. This man works the typical 9-5. I dont know how these boys sleep at night.
Take it he was leverage trading? That's one way to get rekt.
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 07, 2021, 06:45:00 PM
Fella I know was 130k up yesterday, 85k of that shaved off today. This man works the typical 9-5. I dont know how these boys sleep at night.
That is crazy considering it is down by less than 4% today!!
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
Alternatively go 100% Bitcoin cos everything else depends on it and will will go tits up before it does
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 07, 2021, 06:45:00 PM
Fella I know was 130k up yesterday, 85k of that shaved off today. This man works the typical 9-5. I dont know how these boys sleep at night.
That is crazy considering it is down by less than 4% today!!
Leverage trading, and its not bitcoin, its some obscure altcoins that go up and down 50% a day!
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 08, 2021, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 07, 2021, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on April 07, 2021, 10:31:21 AM
Looking to start into the Crypto game. Would any of you fine people care to point me in the right direction, on where to even begin?
Bonus from work needs spending, since holidays to USA out of the picture!
1) App to use
2) What to lean towards
3) What to buy into 1st etc.
After you have done what Mikhael suggested and got started with Binance I would suggest (but not financial advice) you could probably go for something like:
Bitcoin 50%
Ethereum 30%
And then split your other 20% between the next tier (Polkadot, Cardano, Chainlink or the true alt-coins where you can go after big potential gains as they are much riskier).
That's probably a decent long term strategy with the potential for good growth, but you aren't heavy on the coins that could go 30x or 40x in a short time.
Alternatively go 100% Bitcoin cos everything else depends on it and will will go tits up before it does
51% of all BTC miners are in China. How many miners you may ask? Just 4, so 4 miners control 51%. This could make BTC vulnerable to an attack and take over. Doubtful, but one can never be sure, especially in a communist country. XRP is the main coin in the middle of the new Financial System, so when they get through with their court case in June it will be on its way to far higher gains. It is highly possible that the court case is a charade. They are repeatedly mentioned in IMF, BIS and UN documents. Three other coins of note will be there along with XRP when it is finally rolled out.
Need to educate myself on the workings of this though I'm not sure I'll be investing as it sounds like a boom or bust phenomenon.
Plus from what I've been told anecdotally, it is a haven for money laundering and to expect a spate of tax interventions in the future. What are the tax implications of any gains made is it similar to the buying and selling of shares?
I think you are ok unless you are into capital gains territory.
It is hugely volatile. Went in for a while, made a grand and pulled it out. Might do some smaller investments and keep them in long haul.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 08, 2021, 10:11:53 PM
Need to educate myself on the workings of this though I'm not sure I'll be investing as it sounds like a boom or bust phenomenon.
Plus from what I've been told anecdotally, it is a haven for money laundering and to expect a spate of tax interventions in the future. What are the tax implications of any gains made is it similar to the buying and selling of shares?
I firmly believe that while there will be drops again there is less volatility over time as it becomes more established. It is some sign when Blue Chip companies are publicly parking cash in Bitcoin.
And yes, a gain on a Crypto asset in the UK is treated just the same as a gain on a share outside of an ISA, ie an annual limit of something like £12,300 per annum.
One thing to be aware of given how easily it's done - exchanging one crypto for another is considered a taxable event.
Pal has been doing the dollar cost averaging method on Coinbase.
Put £2000 in at the start, and puts £200 in per month.
Seems to be a good way of avoiding any major volatility / emotion of market movement?
I see Bitcoin just hit an All Time High of $63,287 this morning.
I guess this could be the start of a decent move upwards.
But whatever it does for the rest of today / this week I don't think I can stress how it is important for everyone to hold some BTC as I can't see anything other than it significantly increasing in value over the next 5 years as it becomes a more mainstream and "acceptable" Store of Value.
I don't see the huge dips being repeated as there are more institutional investors and companies who would be willing to be any dips this time. Last cycle I don't think it was seen as a "respectable" asset. In my view, I think that has now changed.
I could be wrong, but I'm happy to bet on it increasing in value by orders of magnitude from here.
XRP flying atm too.
Quote from: clarshack on April 13, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
XRP flying atm too.
Someone told me here not to sell mine and I actually bought more.
EDIT - It was you clarshack so thanks for the tip.
Yep. It seems to be different this time alright but I wasn't invested in the last bull run. XRP only took off as bitcoin slumped in 2017-2018. Seems like everything is making moves roughly at the same time. Bitcoin makes a move and consolidates then others rise and the cycle repeats. DOT and KSM have been moving sideways for a while though.
Coinbase going public tomorrow will be interesting to watch. Might buy some shares once the market settles on its price, I think it's starting about $250. Company worth an estimated $100 billion.
walmart are going to announce they've bought 1 billion worth of bitcoin next month, this will boost the price like it did when tesla did the same thing
if they allow customers to use it then that's big as their base is massive, way bigger than tesla
it's also a great hedge against fiat currency as hyper inflation is not that unlikely in the coming years
Tulips from Amsterdam
Any difference to this than gambling ?
I disagree, at least with respect to Bitcoin (the alts could be different).
Yes, there will be some short term dips, but if you are buying to hold for a number of years my view is that there is a less than 10% chance that a BTC will be worth less then than it is now and the upside is pretty much anything.
As I said yesterday, it is now emerging as a genuine store of value.
To the moon
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 07:06:27 AM
I disagree, at least with respect to Bitcoin (the alts could be different).
Yes, there will be some short term dips, but if you are buying to hold for a number of years my view is that there is a less than 10% chance that a BTC will be worth less then than it is now and the upside is pretty much anything.
As I said yesterday, it is now emerging as a genuine store of value.
So it is something where you're giving odds on the value increasing or decreasing... and you don't think it's a gamble??
It's all gambling stocks and shares/fx trading/crypto. You can't say it's not gambling!
Quote from: screenexile on April 14, 2021, 09:08:27 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 07:06:27 AM
I disagree, at least with respect to Bitcoin (the alts could be different).
Yes, there will be some short term dips, but if you are buying to hold for a number of years my view is that there is a less than 10% chance that a BTC will be worth less then than it is now and the upside is pretty much anything.
As I said yesterday, it is now emerging as a genuine store of value.
So it is something where you're giving odds on the value increasing or decreasing... and you don't think it's a gamble??
It's all gambling stocks and shares/fx trading/crypto. You can't say it's not gambling!
What I mean is that I don't see much more risk over the long term in investing in bitcoin compared to equities.
What's the alternative to investing in some form of asset? If you don't invest then it's worse than gambling as the real inflation rate is around 10% (ignore what the CPI / RPI rate is as it excludes many categories of expenditure), and so if you hold in cash you are guaranteed to lose purchasing power in the future.
I would contend there is no risk free way of holding your money, and it was in that context that I mean it's not gambling, which for me means you have a high risk or ruin (or getting rekt as the youngsters say).
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:19:57 AM
Quote from: screenexile on April 14, 2021, 09:08:27 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 07:06:27 AM
I disagree, at least with respect to Bitcoin (the alts could be different).
Yes, there will be some short term dips, but if you are buying to hold for a number of years my view is that there is a less than 10% chance that a BTC will be worth less then than it is now and the upside is pretty much anything.
As I said yesterday, it is now emerging as a genuine store of value.
So it is something where you're giving odds on the value increasing or decreasing... and you don't think it's a gamble??
It's all gambling stocks and shares/fx trading/crypto. You can't say it's not gambling!
What I mean is that I don't see much more risk over the long term in investing in bitcoin compared to equities.
What's the alternative to investing in some form of asset? If you don't invest then it's worse than gambling as the real inflation rate is around 10% (ignore what the CPI / RPI rate is as it excludes many categories of expenditure), and so if you hold in cash you are guaranteed to lose purchasing power in the future.
I would contend there is no risk free way of holding your money, and it was in that context that I mean it's not gambling, which for me means you have a high risk or ruin (or getting rekt as the youngsters say).
There is gambling and there is gambling.
I don't gamble on sport but I can at least see how you can analyse the factors behind some sporting outcomes.
And whilst share prices and exchange rates can at times defy logic there are real economy factors that influence outcomes that can be analysed in advance and underpin values.
That does not apply to cryptocurrencies. They generate no revenues. People buy them today in the hope that they worth more tomorrow. You can only earn money if you cash out. You cash out by selling and converting your investment into cash and yet they are apparently a store of value alternative to cash.
Cryptocurrency investment is not the same as share investment or even stock/currency speculation.
There will be plenty of big name investors audibly ploughing in to the market. They move out quietly. It's a game. Don't be gamed
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bernie Madoff died today. Would Bernie Madoff have invested in cryptocurrency? Would Bernie Madoff have set up a cryptocurrency?
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
I'm no crypto bro but this is utter nonsense. Gold is a shit metal. It's soft and it tarnishes. It has no practical use other than to make jewellery, which is arbitrarily classified as appealing by some people. It's used as a store of value because people have said it has a value and it's, comparatively, scarce.. Exact same for gemstones.. And bitcoin.
If you have only heard of bitcoin being discussed as a medium of exchange rather than as a store of value, you've not participated in or observed the discussion around it for a good 6 or 7 years.
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2021, 12:08:01 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
I'm no crypto bro but this is utter nonsense. Gold is a shit metal. It's soft and it tarnishes. It has no practical use other than to make jewellery, which is arbitrarily classified as appealing by some people. It's used as a store of value because people have said it has a value and it's, comparatively, scarce.. Exact same for gemstones.. And bitcoin.
If you have only heard of bitcoin being discussed as a medium of exchange rather than as a store of value, you've not participated in or observed the discussion around it for a good 6 or 7 years.
sensible, reasoned analysis there gallsman
This has taken an interesting turn.
I have only made 4 posts to this thread so I will not repost them they are easy to check out. In summary 100% of my comments have been about cryptocurrencies as a store of value and investment. 0% of my posts are bout bitcoin (or any cryptocurrency) as a medium of exchange. And yet this leads Gallsman to post
Quote from: gallsman on April 15, 2021, 12:08:01 AM
I'm no crypto bro but this is utter nonsense. Gold is a shit metal. It's soft and it tarnishes. It has no practical use other than to make jewellery, which is arbitrarily classified as appealing by some people. It's used as a store of value because people have said it has a value and it's, comparatively, scarce.. Exact same for gemstones.. And bitcoin.
If you have only heard of bitcoin being discussed as a medium of exchange rather than as a store of value, you've not participated in or observed the discussion around it for a good 6 or 7 years.
To which Mikhail responds
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 15, 2021, 12:46:07 AM
sensible, reasoned analysis there gallsman
Very strange. I could make the point about these guys seeing what they want to see and extrapolate that out into a wider point about cryptocurrency investors but happy to hear any other explanation of this behaviour first
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bitcoin is a store of value, same as anything else. It's pretty much been proven at this stage. 1 coin is worth over $60k. It's market cap will exceed Gold at some point. It's done.
Other Cryptocurrencies are solving real world problems. Smart contracts will be the future. Lots of things do and will use them. Ether (Ethereum) is pretty rubbish but other Cryptos like Cardano (ADA) and Polkadot (Dot) are building on that. That's the tech aspect
Cryptos are the future and they are here to stay. Are they a risky investment? Yes. Could you lose it all? Yes. But that is pretty much the same for all investments.
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bitcoin is a store of value, same as anything else. It's pretty much been proven at this stage. 1 coin is worth over $60k. It's market cap will exceed Gold at some point. It's done.
Other Cryptocurrencies are solving real world problems. Smart contracts will be the future. Lots of things do and will use them. Ether (Ethereum) is pretty rubbish but other Cryptos like Cardano (ADA) and Polkadot (Dot) are building on that. That's the tech aspect
Cryptos are the future and they are here to stay. Are they a risky investment? Yes. Could you lose it all? Yes. But that is pretty much the same for all investments.
None of that explains how the technology adds value.
I am not saying cryptocurrencies won't hang around. I am not challenging the medium of exchange role (see above) and nor am I saying that investments cannot go down in value (see above) but nobody here has yet explained the underlying basis of the value of a cryptocurrency. Offline the best I have heard is that its marketing. If I can convince you its worth X then its worth X. I need not explain the serious dangers in such a model
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 08:48:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bitcoin is a store of value, same as anything else. It's pretty much been proven at this stage. 1 coin is worth over $60k. It's market cap will exceed Gold at some point. It's done.
Other Cryptocurrencies are solving real world problems. Smart contracts will be the future. Lots of things do and will use them. Ether (Ethereum) is pretty rubbish but other Cryptos like Cardano (ADA) and Polkadot (Dot) are building on that. That's the tech aspect
Cryptos are the future and they are here to stay. Are they a risky investment? Yes. Could you lose it all? Yes. But that is pretty much the same for all investments.
None of that explains how the technology adds value.
I am not saying cryptocurrencies won't hang around. I am not challenging the medium of exchange role (see above) and nor am I saying that investments cannot go down in value (see above) but nobody here has yet explained the underlying basis of the value of a cryptocurrency. Offline the best I have heard is that its marketing. If I can convince you its worth X then its worth X. I need not explain the serious dangers in such a model
But that is true of anything surely?
I think the value of Bitcoin is derived from a few things.
1) It is decentralised, no one is in charge, no bank, no government
2) It is finite
3) To a lesser extent, it is valued by millions of people. Similar to any asset that people value
Traditional currencies like the Dollar or Pound have been used as a store of value for hundreds of years. This is no different.
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 08:48:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bitcoin is a store of value, same as anything else. It's pretty much been proven at this stage. 1 coin is worth over $60k. It's market cap will exceed Gold at some point. It's done.
Other Cryptocurrencies are solving real world problems. Smart contracts will be the future. Lots of things do and will use them. Ether (Ethereum) is pretty rubbish but other Cryptos like Cardano (ADA) and Polkadot (Dot) are building on that. That's the tech aspect
Cryptos are the future and they are here to stay. Are they a risky investment? Yes. Could you lose it all? Yes. But that is pretty much the same for all investments.
None of that explains how the technology adds value.
I am not saying cryptocurrencies won't hang around. I am not challenging the medium of exchange role (see above) and nor am I saying that investments cannot go down in value (see above) but nobody here has yet explained the underlying basis of the value of a cryptocurrency. Offline the best I have heard is that its marketing. If I can convince you its worth X then its worth X. I need not explain the serious dangers in such a model
But that is true of anything surely?
I think the value of Bitcoin is derived from a few things.
1) It is decentralised, no one is in charge, no bank, no government
2) It is finite
3) To a lesser extent, it is valued by millions of people. Similar to any asset that people value
Traditional currencies like the Dollar or Pound have been used as a store of value for hundreds of years. This is no different.
Still nothing on the technology adding value there.
Currencies gain a value but the start as a medium of exchange in a domestic and then international economies. The nature of the trade and the dynamics in those economies (largely)establish the value.
So if crypotcurrencies are the same how are they currently going as a medium of exchange and what is the dynamics in the crypto economy and where is bitcoin going to get to against say the Yen if the Olympics goes ahead without spectators?
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 09:03:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 08:48:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bitcoin is a store of value, same as anything else. It's pretty much been proven at this stage. 1 coin is worth over $60k. It's market cap will exceed Gold at some point. It's done.
Other Cryptocurrencies are solving real world problems. Smart contracts will be the future. Lots of things do and will use them. Ether (Ethereum) is pretty rubbish but other Cryptos like Cardano (ADA) and Polkadot (Dot) are building on that. That's the tech aspect
Cryptos are the future and they are here to stay. Are they a risky investment? Yes. Could you lose it all? Yes. But that is pretty much the same for all investments.
None of that explains how the technology adds value.
I am not saying cryptocurrencies won't hang around. I am not challenging the medium of exchange role (see above) and nor am I saying that investments cannot go down in value (see above) but nobody here has yet explained the underlying basis of the value of a cryptocurrency. Offline the best I have heard is that its marketing. If I can convince you its worth X then its worth X. I need not explain the serious dangers in such a model
But that is true of anything surely?
I think the value of Bitcoin is derived from a few things.
1) It is decentralised, no one is in charge, no bank, no government
2) It is finite
3) To a lesser extent, it is valued by millions of people. Similar to any asset that people value
Traditional currencies like the Dollar or Pound have been used as a store of value for hundreds of years. This is no different.
Still nothing on the technology adding value there.
Currencies gain a value but the start as a medium of exchange in a domestic and then international economies. The nature of the trade and the dynamics in those economies (largely)establish the value.
So if crypotcurrencies are the same how are they currently going as a medium of exchange and what is the dynamics in the crypto economy and where is bitcoin going to get to against say the Yen if the Olympics goes ahead without spectators?
Sorry to be clear. Technology adds value by allowing them to be decentralised. It would be impossible to have a decentralised solution without technology. Apologies I thought that was clear.
Currencies are only valued because people value them. If people lose faith in a currency it devalues pretty quickly no matter what central authorities do. There has been umpteen examples of this.
I don't understand what you mean ref the Olympics
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 10:04:53 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 09:03:05 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 08:48:01 AM
Quote from: trailer on April 15, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 02:18:24 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 14, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 14, 2021, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 14, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
Let me be clear, I was talking solely about Bitcoin, not all the other Cryptocurrencies or Alt Coins as they are an entirely different conversation.
Smelmoth, what revenues does gold create?
None, but it still doesn't stop a gold bullion being worth whatever it is worth.
What revenues do jewellry or fancy art generate? But they still hold their value.
Think of Bitcoin the same. An asset just has to be accepted as a Store of Value and then that is what it becomes. My view (and if you don't hold the same view then that's fine) is that Bitcoin is on the path to being accepted as a bona fide Store of Value; just like a painting or a bit of gold. #
I say this is it is apparent that more corporations are getting involved now as a legitimate part of their treasury holdings (again, I'm just talking about Bitcoin here, no other crypto assets) and the supply is fixed.
It's some diversification for me as I still have much more in the traditional investments (pensions and stocks and shares ISAs) that I do in Bitcoin. For sure I wouldn't go all in on Bitcoin, just the same way as I wouldn't on any particular individual asset.
Until now I have only heard of cryptocurrencies being proposed as alternative to cash, gilts, stocks, currency or investments that combine some or all of those. Hence my focus on them.
You are now bringing in gold, art and jewellery.
Jewellery's inherent value is in precious metals and to a degree workmanship and the history (who owned/ wore some items before). Gold is related to this because of what it can be turned into. Other things are as rare as precious metals but people just don't like looking at them as much. And don't think people will enjoy looking at them in the future. They could however be wrong and some things will become less fashionable and be worth less in the future. Not aware of anyone who likes looking at Bitcoin.
Paint on canvas or a block of marble have little inherent value. What is done with them technically and aesthetically can add value. If it is any good that is.
There is behaviour around the edges where a self destroying physical artwork sells for big money. But that is Bill Drummond style performance art and is confined to very few individuals.
Bitcoin offers none of these. It works on the principle that rare (or restricted supply) is automatically valuable. It has nothing to back that up.
But if I was a big investor with deep pockets I could easily make a lot of noise about putting $10bn into Bitcoin and cashing in on the drip straight away as the price rises on foot of my announcement.
Tulips from Amsterdam
Don't look up NFTs whatever you do.
You don't allow for the technical aspect of crypto which adds value.
But what is value? We only value something because of how we feel about it. That the big question. If people didn't value gold it would be like any other rock on the ground.
Okay hit me with it. I have already factored in the use of technology to restrict the supply of something but beyond that what is the value (to the holder) in the technology?
Bitcoin is a store of value, same as anything else. It's pretty much been proven at this stage. 1 coin is worth over $60k. It's market cap will exceed Gold at some point. It's done.
Other Cryptocurrencies are solving real world problems. Smart contracts will be the future. Lots of things do and will use them. Ether (Ethereum) is pretty rubbish but other Cryptos like Cardano (ADA) and Polkadot (Dot) are building on that. That's the tech aspect
Cryptos are the future and they are here to stay. Are they a risky investment? Yes. Could you lose it all? Yes. But that is pretty much the same for all investments.
None of that explains how the technology adds value.
I am not saying cryptocurrencies won't hang around. I am not challenging the medium of exchange role (see above) and nor am I saying that investments cannot go down in value (see above) but nobody here has yet explained the underlying basis of the value of a cryptocurrency. Offline the best I have heard is that its marketing. If I can convince you its worth X then its worth X. I need not explain the serious dangers in such a model
But that is true of anything surely?
I think the value of Bitcoin is derived from a few things.
1) It is decentralised, no one is in charge, no bank, no government
2) It is finite
3) To a lesser extent, it is valued by millions of people. Similar to any asset that people value
Traditional currencies like the Dollar or Pound have been used as a store of value for hundreds of years. This is no different.
Still nothing on the technology adding value there.
Currencies gain a value but the start as a medium of exchange in a domestic and then international economies. The nature of the trade and the dynamics in those economies (largely)establish the value.
So if crypotcurrencies are the same how are they currently going as a medium of exchange and what is the dynamics in the crypto economy and where is bitcoin going to get to against say the Yen if the Olympics goes ahead without spectators?
Sorry to be clear. Technology adds value by allowing them to be decentralised. It would be impossible to have a decentralised solution without technology. Apologies I thought that was clear.
Currencies are only valued because people value them. If people lose faith in a currency it devalues pretty quickly no matter what central authorities do. There has been umpteen examples of this.
I don't understand what you mean ref the Olympics
I get the link between the technology and decentralisation. And I get the paper benefit of decentralisation. But I think it is overplayed.
Means of stopping currency manipulation are clearly of benefit to investors (though there can be other negative consequences). But preventing value manipulation by governments/central banks doesn't achieve much if others can simply manipulate value by marketing.
It's too simple to say currencies are only of value because they value it. The actual value fluctuates in line with real economy dynamics. Some big, some small. Some long term, some short term. The Olympics is a short term and small example. As short term and small as it is it is still real. What are real economy impacts on the current and future value of any given cryptocurrency?
I am being told that crypto currencies are the same as national/bloc currencies. Nobody as yet as explained how
Well, it's also becoming a new form of banking. And you can earn between 12 to 14% APY on an asset that can go up in value. Bank of Ireland meanwhile are fleecing me just have money held with them.
I don't have time to get into the ins and outs of why things have value but when you see the cyclical nature of bitcoin and the fact that had I invested back in 2013 I'd have retired already and you see that opportunity coming around again I wasn't going to miss it out this time. If it goes the way of the dodo in a few years I won't mind. I have my plan to cash out when the time is right and if all goes as predicted I'll be in a good spot (though not likely retirement money sadly).
Quote from: thejuice on April 15, 2021, 01:08:38 PM
Well, it's also becoming a new form of banking. And you can earn between 12 to 14% APY on an asset that can go up in value. Bank of Ireland meanwhile are fleecing me just have money held with them.
I don't have time to get into the ins and outs of why things have value but when you see the cyclical nature of bitcoin and the fact that had I invested back in 2013 I'd have retired already and you see that opportunity coming around again I wasn't going to miss it out this time. If it goes the way of the dodo in a few years I won't mind. I have my plan to cash out when the time is right and if all goes as predicted I'll be in a good spot (though not likely retirement money sadly).
If you are paying BOI negative interest rates you must be in a very large way of going.
Earring interest on cryptocurrency is not mainstream and I would say fraught with danger. Who is paying the interest, how sure are you of getting the cryptocurrency back and is it given hack in its original form or in a "real" currency equivalent. I would be concerned that anyone willing to pay you interest on a cryptocurrency is involved in extremely sub prime lending or is essentially playing with your asset on a rent to short play. What regulatory framework is this within?
But I fully agree with your last point. The "right time" is definitely the best time to cash out an investment. Bonne chance
So cutting to the chase - if Bitcoin was overvalued by say 15% how would you know?
I would agree with the points that Smelmoth is making. I would also add that the people who like to talk up Crypto mostly appear to already have skin in the game and it is in their best interest to do so. So all of the noise makes ordinary Joe Public feel as though they are missing out on something. Take for example how Elon Musk announced his investment and the credibility that big investors like him then give to the legitimacy of the currency. Will the same announcements be made on the sale side of the transaction, I wouldn't be so sure. He could slip back out of the Bitcoin market now with a huge profit.
So when I read somewhere back in this thread that there is a less than 10% chance that Bitcoin is valued lower in the long term than it is today, this should come with a health warning. This is based on opinion and not factual and we've all seen this movie before with other investments & assets. Any investments made into Crypto at this stage would need to be treated as spare money that you can afford to lose, just like going down to the bookies on a Saturday. If you've got in at low base costs well then brilliant but until you cash out you hold only a paper profit.
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2021/apr/15/virtual-hoodie-sells-non-fungible-token-nft-overpriced (https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2021/apr/15/virtual-hoodie-sells-non-fungible-token-nft-overpriced)
Dogecoin is up 13,000 in the last 12 months. 430% this week. Its one of the most valuable assets on the planet
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
I've already told you that, in my opinion, Bitcoin is valued on the same basis as gold. That is people believe it is a Store of Value.
Gold doesn't have value because it makes "pretty" jewellery as you suggested earlier, because fakes can be made that look just as "pretty".
Whether Bitcoin becomes that Store of Value is the question, I think it will, you think it won't. That's all there is to it. We'll have a better idea in 2025 as to who was right.
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 02:08:26 PM
So cutting to the chase - if Bitcoin was overvalued by say 15% how would you know?
Could the exact same question not be asked about gold?
Quote from: Franko on April 16, 2021, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 15, 2021, 02:08:26 PM
So cutting to the chase - if Bitcoin was overvalued by say 15% how would you know?
Could the exact same question not be asked about gold?
It can be asked about anything.
It's is relatively easy to answer (though not with absolute certainty) about a stock, gilt, currency or receivable.
It's is less easy to answer about gold because subjectivity plays more of a role. But subjectivity is far from the only factor.
With gold you can look to both historic ranges and the performance/expected performance of alternatives. The performance of alternatives is key to gold as it's a "flight to" investment. It's short term performance can vary but is has long term pedigree. Very large investors hold some gold and increase their holdings when they get concerned about their other asset classes. A retail investor investing in gold is a bloody fool.
Posing cryptocurrency as an alternative to gold is an academic conversation for retail investors. Investing in neither makes sense.
Anyone want to spell out why it's an alternative to stocks, currency etc?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2021, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
I've already told you that, in my opinion, Bitcoin is valued on the same basis as gold. That is people believe it is a Store of Value.
Gold doesn't have value because it makes "pretty" jewellery as you suggested earlier, because fakes can be made that look just as "pretty".
Whether Bitcoin becomes that Store of Value is the question, I think it will, you think it won't. That's all there is to it. We'll have a better idea in 2025 as to who was right.
I will take that one on the chin. My description of the basis of gold's value was a bit lax. I was trying to say where it's original value came from but realise that isn't quite what I ended up saying. I'm not a fan of gold as an investment. I would class it alongside wine or whiskey that is never meant to be drank.
Scammers are getting stupid people to invest in this shit. Fools and their money is one thing but fools with spare cash in an unregulated market is just a feeding frenzy
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2021, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
I've already told you that, in my opinion, Bitcoin is valued on the same basis as gold. That is people believe it is a Store of Value.
Gold doesn't have value because it makes "pretty" jewellery as you suggested earlier, because fakes can be made that look just as "pretty".
Whether Bitcoin becomes that Store of Value is the question, I think it will, you think it won't. That's all there is to it. We'll have a better idea in 2025 as to who was right.
This is pretty much it. Smelmoth thinks it is a scam, others don't.
My prediction is Bitcoin to £100k before year end. Get on the train.
Quote from: trailer on April 16, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2021, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
I've already told you that, in my opinion, Bitcoin is valued on the same basis as gold. That is people believe it is a Store of Value.
Gold doesn't have value because it makes "pretty" jewellery as you suggested earlier, because fakes can be made that look just as "pretty".
Whether Bitcoin becomes that Store of Value is the question, I think it will, you think it won't. That's all there is to it. We'll have a better idea in 2025 as to who was right.
This is pretty much it. Smelmoth thinks it is a scam, others don't.
My prediction is Bitcoin to £100k before year end. Get on the train.
£100k is a lovely round number and Bitcoin could easily reach £100k by the end of the year but where do think it will level out at and more importantly, why?
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 16, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2021, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
I've already told you that, in my opinion, Bitcoin is valued on the same basis as gold. That is people believe it is a Store of Value.
Gold doesn't have value because it makes "pretty" jewellery as you suggested earlier, because fakes can be made that look just as "pretty".
Whether Bitcoin becomes that Store of Value is the question, I think it will, you think it won't. That's all there is to it. We'll have a better idea in 2025 as to who was right.
This is pretty much it. Smelmoth thinks it is a scam, others don't.
My prediction is Bitcoin to £100k before year end. Get on the train.
£100k is a lovely round number and Bitcoin could easily reach £100k by the end of the year but where do think it will level out at and more importantly, why?
Gold is a good hedge against hyperinflation, bitcoin will be as well
The US dollar, which we are all linked to, is heading for a massive fall so don't say you all weren't warned ;)
any profit on these joke coins made, just convert to btc and hodl :)
Will other countries go the way of Turkey and ban crypto??
Bloody Sunday
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 17, 2021, 12:17:05 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 16, 2021, 08:12:28 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 16, 2021, 04:13:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 16, 2021, 03:21:33 PM
Best to look at crypto currencies (from an investment perspective) is as a cruel joke.
A few might get a laugh along the way but at what cost.
Those holding it today can get their money back before the bubble bursts but only by passing the problem to somebody else. The only people involved for whom this is not true is that the ones that got in low and trousered the uplift on the greater part of the stake and can well afford to cash out too late on what stake they left.
I notice there is no big rush of posters trying to explain the basis of the value of a cryptocurrency
I've already told you that, in my opinion, Bitcoin is valued on the same basis as gold. That is people believe it is a Store of Value.
Gold doesn't have value because it makes "pretty" jewellery as you suggested earlier, because fakes can be made that look just as "pretty".
Whether Bitcoin becomes that Store of Value is the question, I think it will, you think it won't. That's all there is to it. We'll have a better idea in 2025 as to who was right.
This is pretty much it. Smelmoth thinks it is a scam, others don't.
My prediction is Bitcoin to £100k before year end. Get on the train.
£100k is a lovely round number and Bitcoin could easily reach £100k by the end of the year but where do think it will level out at and more importantly, why?
Gold is a good hedge against hyperinflation, bitcoin will be as well
The US dollar, which we are all linked to, is heading for a massive fall so don't say you all weren't warned ;)
any profit on these joke coins made, just convert to btc and hodl :)
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
Bubble theory.
A commodity or a currency has an intrinsic value and a use. McDonalds buy beef to make burgers. The Swedish Korona can be used to buy stuff. There is a clear and on paper transparent market for them.
Crypto fulfils no such criteria. It's opaque and has no actual function.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 18, 2021, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
Bubble theory.
A commodity or a currency has an intrinsic value and a use. McDonalds buy beef to make burgers. The Swedish Korona can be used to buy stuff. There is a clear and on paper transparent market for them.
Crypto fulfils no such criteria. It's opaque and has no actual function.
It's in fact the Swedish Krona you can buy stuff with, just like Bitcoin.
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 18, 2021, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
Bubble theory.
A commodity or a currency has an intrinsic value and a use. McDonalds buy beef to make burgers. The Swedish Korona can be used to buy stuff. There is a clear and on paper transparent market for them.
Crypto fulfils no such criteria. It's opaque and has no actual function.
It's in fact the Swedish Krona you can buy stuff with, just like Bitcoin.
I can go into McDonalds and exchange bitcoin for a McFlurry?
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 18, 2021, 10:31:16 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 18, 2021, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
Bubble theory.
A commodity or a currency has an intrinsic value and a use. McDonalds buy beef to make burgers. The Swedish Korona can be used to buy stuff. There is a clear and on paper transparent market for them.
Crypto fulfils no such criteria. It's opaque and has no actual function.
It's in fact the Swedish Krona you can buy stuff with, just like Bitcoin.
I can go into McDonalds and exchange bitcoin for a McFlurry?
Your local McDonalds won't accept Krona either but both can be changed to Euro via Revolut, Apple Pay, Ziglu etc
Who is behind bitcoin or any other of the cryptocurrencys for that matter?
If Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk had come out in advance of bitcoin being set up and said that they would accept bitcoin in exchange for their products. Then you might have something. Who is behind bitcoin? Who set it up? It was not the 3 mentioned above? It was not Barclays bank or Santander group. A mysterious Japanese gentleman? Was it the Yakuza behind it? Was it Russian hackers?
All this money invested 874,435,000,000 dollars it is supposed to be worth. It is in me hole. You can maybe trade with Elon Musk and Tesla. This will all end in tears imho.
Prob will end it tears but you'd love to have bought a few back in the day all the same
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
Doge especially. That's one coin way overvalued.
Quote from: clarshack on April 19, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
Doge especially. That's one coin way overvalued.
Anyone buying Doge needs to seek immediate medical help.
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
How do you decide the correct value for a crypto currency?
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
there is a bit more to it that that. The vast majority of trades in the vast majority of currencies/commodities are not investments. The majority of purchasers are not buying to get in on an appreciating asset nor are they seeking a store of value. The majority of trades is just the flow of trade. People buying tin tend to want tin and are using or processing tin. People buying grain tend to want grain and are involved in brewing, animal feed or milling. There are real world economies for tin and grain. Those real world dynamics can be analysed and value corrections anticipated.
I keep asking about the real world dynamics for cryptocurrencies. None of the boys on here touting cryptocurrencies or a particular currency are prepared to set it out.
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
it would good if some of the boys who do "know how it works" so spell out what underpins its value? Maybe the lad who's strategy was to sell his investment "at the right time" could explain, He seemed to have his head screwed on
Quote from: clarshack on April 19, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
Doge especially. That's one coin way overvalued.
Please explain?
Quote from: smelmoth on April 19, 2021, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 19, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
Doge especially. That's one coin way overvalued.
Please explain?
It has no use case, has an infinite amount of coins and there already is about 129 billion of them.
Quote from: clarshack on April 19, 2021, 10:41:08 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 19, 2021, 10:02:43 PM
Quote from: clarshack on April 19, 2021, 01:19:01 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:12:12 PM
A lot of people who are critical of Crypto on this site don't appear to understand at all. But, yes loads of these coins are overvalued.
Doge especially. That's one coin way overvalued.
Please explain?
It has no use case, has an infinite amount of coins and there already is about 129 billion of them.
The perils of the attitude that the value of something is what people are prepared to pay for it are writ large right there.
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 18, 2021, 10:31:16 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 10:28:10 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 18, 2021, 10:11:32 PM
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 09:21:13 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 18, 2021, 01:00:09 PM
You argue that Bitcoin is a good alternative to investing of gold. That will of interest to those who are interested in investing in gold. What's that? Some small fraction of 1% of investors and some infinitesimal fraction of 1% of the population?
It's getting harder and harder to find anyone who whilst willing to promote cryptocurrency as an investment is also willing to explain why it's a going to be a good investment other than in the way that tuilips from Amsterdam were a good investment during the period before they weren't a good investment
Do you deliberately misrepresent the point I have made?
I have never had any interest in investing in gold. I'd imagine buying it would be tricky enough and as for storing it.........
My point is that Bitcoin is another asset class that allows people to invest. A traditional portfolio would see an individual investing in equities (domestive and more exotic), fixed interest and property etc. Bitcoin now provides another asset class for someone to potentially invest in.
My reference to gold is that gold only has the value it has because people believe that's what the value is. The point is that once a sufficient number of people believe that an asset is a store of value then it becomes that store of value because the asset becomes tradeable.
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Very happy to move on from gold.
Totally accept that Bitcoin is an another asset class for investors to look at. Then again so are tulips.
Are you willing to have a stab at my earlier question - if Bitcoin was overvalued by 15% how would you know?
I am suspicious of people talking up cryptocurrency.
I'm even more suspicious of those talking up a cryptocurrency but unwilling to explain the basis of its (future) value
But when a poster account responds to a challenge to another poster account I get really suspicious.
Everybody has their own motivations. Mine are clean and above board
Since any commodity's or currency's value is based whatever people are willing to pay for it at a given pont in time, how would you know if anything is overvalued?
Bubble theory.
A commodity or a currency has an intrinsic value and a use. McDonalds buy beef to make burgers. The Swedish Korona can be used to buy stuff. There is a clear and on paper transparent market for them.
Crypto fulfils no such criteria. It's opaque and has no actual function.
It's in fact the Swedish Krona you can buy stuff with, just like Bitcoin.
I can go into McDonalds and exchange bitcoin for a McFlurry?
Your local McDonalds won't accept Krona either but both can be changed to Euro via Revolut, Apple Pay, Ziglu etc
And they are all banking solutions. What has crypto got to do with the real economy?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Well Joe/Mick? Bad couple of days for the bubble. Hasn't exactly burst but a little of the hot air has escaped. No doubt it will build up again.
I don't know what the significance of 2025 is and I have no idea what the value of BTC will be in 2025. Could be £500k or could be Nil.And it could be £500k on 2025 and Nil in 2026. That's my point.
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
Quote from: smelmoth on April 22, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Well Joe/Mick? Bad couple of days for the bubble. Hasn't exactly burst but a little of the hot air has escaped. No doubt it will build up again.
I don't know what the significance of 2025 is and I have no idea what the value of BTC will be in 2025. Could be £500k or could be Nil.And it could be £500k on 2025 and Nil in 2026. That's my point.
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
Had fair wee sum knocked off my portfolio in this last few days. So went out and bought more. ADA and BTC. I am still up on what I put in. So happy enough.
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 03:25:11 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 22, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Well Joe/Mick? Bad couple of days for the bubble. Hasn't exactly burst but a little of the hot air has escaped. No doubt it will build up again.
I don't know what the significance of 2025 is and I have no idea what the value of BTC will be in 2025. Could be £500k or could be Nil.And it could be £500k on 2025 and Nil in 2026. That's my point.
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
Had fair wee sum knocked off my portfolio in this last few days. So went out and bought more. ADA and BTC. I am still up on what I put in. So happy enough.
Have you a strike price for getting out?
Where do think it's value could get to?
Are you confident that if there is a rush to get out that the system will allow it and that there will be buyers? I am not saying that rush will be now. Just at some stage in the future.
I hope that you are playing with a small stake here. I hope that is the case for all the retail investors. That's the only way I see that doesn't end in misery
Quote from: smelmoth on April 22, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
The exact same thing that underpins any FIAT currency's value. Confidence the in ability to exchange it for goods.
What is the difference between the US dollar and the Zimbabwean dollar?
Bitcoin and others taking another hammering yesterday. A blip? Or is this going to continue? No doubt some will see it as a great opportunity to buy in now when its gone low.
Quote from: Itchy on April 23, 2021, 07:57:53 AM
Bitcoin and others taking another hammering yesterday. A blip? Or is this going to continue? No doubt some will see it as a great opportunity to buy in now when its gone low.
Think Biden announced plans for a hike in Capital Gains taxes which caused this.
Quote from: smelmoth on April 22, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Well Joe/Mick? Bad couple of days for the bubble. Hasn't exactly burst but a little of the hot air has escaped. No doubt it will build up again.
I don't know what the significance of 2025 is and I have no idea what the value of BTC will be in 2025. Could be £500k or could be Nil.And it could be £500k on 2025 and Nil in 2026. That's my point.
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
Everything I have in, I can afford to lose. But the rough idea is to hold BTC till 2025 unless there are huge profits between now and then. But the overall idea with it is long term.
With ADA I was hoping for short term gains between 5 or 10x. Dunno how likely that'll be now. Prepared for that to go to zero. But it didn't have the huge breakout that other coins have had and they are due to make some announcements around it's platform in the next month, so we will see.
I have a very small stake in XRP which is a punt as I bought round 30p. It could skyrocket off the back of the SEC case or it could go to zero. But I have only £500 in it.
There's been a bit of an over reaction to this Biden tax fud imo. Much like when the SEC brought their case against Ripple, and XRP actually recovered well after the price dropping back in December. BTC will rebound and will make a new ATH this year imo.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 22, 2021, 11:46:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 22, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
The exact same thing that underpins any FIAT currency's value. Confidence the in ability to exchange it for goods.
What is the difference between the US dollar and the Zimbabwean dollar?
That misses the point the point. Price is a factor of demand and supply. But the demand for dollars is not merely (or even mainly) from investors. The overwhelming majority of demand for USD does not come from investors trying to cash in on a currency value uplift. The demand comes from businesses across the globe settling real world bills. Loads of these business are buying currency forward. But they do this for price certainty. Not trying to beat the market.
Large institutional investors will use treasury functions to have some of their portfolio in various currencies but this is a tiny fraction especially now when there is little motivation to hold any investment funds in liquid form.
Cryptocurrency doesn't have any of that. Basically we have investors thinking cryptocurrency is going to up in value because other investors will think it will go up and of this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and the actual market value will go up. This is just tulips from Amsterdam stuff.
So you point that crypto and Fiat are underpinned by the same factors is nonsense. But happy for you to set out why this is not the case.
Quote from: clarshack on April 23, 2021, 10:37:38 AM
There's been a bit of an over reaction to this Biden tax fud imo. Much like when the SEC brought their case against Ripple, and XRP actually recovered well after the price dropping back in December. BTC will rebound and will make a new ATH this year imo.
I wouldn't bet against your ATH comment. But explain what level you think it will get to this year and why?
BTC was well on the way to 70k+ when the Chinese government pulled the power plug, disrupting 40% of the mining last weekend. This resulted in a 25% reduction in the hash rate within hours. I have mentioned earlier that the only way BTC will disappear is through the intervention of the Communist Chinese government. Last weekend showed how they can manipulate the market.
We had just entered the Liquidity Swap with BTC dominance going down to 52% and everything was in play for BTC to retrace back down to the 45k level after hitting the mid 70ies., temporarily bring the altcoins with them. The Fibonacci, as in all walks of like in full display. The safe haven of USDC or even ETH were options and will be again when the market refocuses. It will be OK also to hold the good altcoins as there will be a large resurgence in those altcoins within a number of weeks.
Smart investors always buy the fear and sell the greed. The fear is being sold over the last week.
For the most part only the big boys buy the fear.
https://trimurl.co/GrayscaleAddedBTCandETH (https://trimurl.co/GrayscaleAddedBTCandETH)
In order to find the value in certain cryptos first look at The White Paper. There is a lot of weeding out to be done. Have a look at the Council Members and who is backing the project, if they are also Council Members so much the better. That is just for starters as plenty more research is needed. For instance there is a coin staring us all in the face that will rival and surpass Netflix. What about upcoming coins that will surpass any technology we have seen before or those of established existing coins. A coin currently being built on the Polkadot platform, about to launch in the coming months with Wall Street all in looks extremely interesting. The best coins are not here yet.
The good coins presently will be a part of our lives well into the future until something better comes along, which will be an Airdrop in most cases. For instance XLM may not be around for long but may do an Airdrop into something even better.
Regarding the US Dollar, where did the government acquire the trillions for the stimulus packages over the past year with plenty more on the way? Inflation is well over 10%, food and energy prices are not included in the index. Gas prices have soared 30% since January. During the Carter presidency inflation hit 18%, the Regan admin removed food and energy from the inflation index, a miracle happened.
There is the US Dollar and then there are the cryptocurrency gems, I will not be leaving too many dollars in the bank.
Quote from: smelmoth on April 23, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
Price is a factor of demand and supply.
Price of
goods/assets is a factor of demand and supply.
But your not completely wrong either - if for reasons you maybe haven't realised.
Quote from: smelmoth on April 23, 2021, 03:00:31 PM
Cryptocurrency doesn't have any of that.
That is the bit you are missing - its starting to... and that is why people are getting on to it now.
The altcoins is a mess and could well, as you say, burn eventually for many of them.
But blockchain is already being used for big transactions by big banks.
Thus, a few established blockchain currencies will eventually gain widespread acceptance as a means of payment - it already has become accepted on the fringes.
Now, coming back to your comment about demand & supply earlier - with the number of bitcoins produced finite - it is a bit like gold in a barter economy.
Limited supply of gold means each gramme could be worth more if gold becomes more useful in things not yet envisaged. Of course, if a new blockchain currency that is easier to mine becomes accepted - then the price of bitcoin could crash in favour of that new cryptocurrency.
That is what people are betting on, and the altcoins are just along for the ride.
RGG - I have always accepted it's a bet. What I am asking people to explain is their claims that it's a good investment, it's like other currencies and the basis of its value.
The "good investment" will probably just garner the response to look at the price relative to a year ago. But then look at relative to a week ago. Markets like stability. Stability comes from a broad base and visibility of the underlying dynamics.
The best I can get here is that Bitcoin is an alternative to gold, penny shares and maybe even currency speculation. On that basis I would ask any retail investor how much do they normally invest in any of those 3. That's your starting point for your crypto investments.
Not sure your Blockchain comments. Blockchain doesn't automatically mean crypto currency. Encryption is being used to allow large organisations to outsource services and maintain confidentiality. Blockchain is being used in that sphere with no link to cryptocurrency.
Payments are also encrypted. Blockchain is now in the payments sphere. But as an alternative to the established SDV systems for paying fiat currencies. Not as an alternative to the currency.
Quote from: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 08:22:28 AM
Not sure your Blockchain comments. Blockchain doesn't automatically mean crypto currency. Encryption is being used to allow large organisations to outsource services and maintain confidentiality. Blockchain is being used in that sphere with no link to cryptocurrency.
Payments are also encrypted. Blockchain is now in the payments sphere. But as an alternative to the established SDV systems for paying fiat currencies. Not as an alternative to the currency.
Indeed, blockchain is the numerics behind cryptocurrency. My point is that acceptance of the technology by the banks means it
does work, they know it works and they use it, eventually the wider population will too. Not for everything, indeed, probably not for the vast majority of things.
But foreign exchange? Large transactions? A means to hold money outside bank accounts (which are tethered to a nation)? Any one of those holds appeal to multinational companies.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on April 26, 2021, 08:46:45 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 08:22:28 AM
Not sure your Blockchain comments. Blockchain doesn't automatically mean crypto currency. Encryption is being used to allow large organisations to outsource services and maintain confidentiality. Blockchain is being used in that sphere with no link to cryptocurrency.
Payments are also encrypted. Blockchain is now in the payments sphere. But as an alternative to the established SDV systems for paying fiat currencies. Not as an alternative to the currency.
Indeed, blockchain is the numerics behind cryptocurrency. My point is that acceptance of the technology by the banks means it does work, they know it works and they use it, eventually the wider population will too. Not for everything, indeed, probably not for the vast majority of things.
But foreign exchange? Large transactions? A means to hold money outside bank accounts (which are tethered to a nation)? Any one of those holds appeal to multinational companies.
The utility of blockchain technology is not the same as saying bitcoin has a value never mind a particular value.
Bank accounts being tethered to a nation is not a material risk when you look probability and available mitigants. Certainly a lot less risk than the volatility of something like Bitcoin
Quote from: Seamus on April 24, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Inflation is well over 10%, food and energy prices are not included in the index.
Nonsense
https://www.bls.gov/cpi/
Quote from: Seamus on April 24, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Regarding the US Dollar, where did the government acquire the trillions for the stimulus packages over the past year with plenty more on the way? Inflation is well over 10%,
Immediately forgot everything you said after that gem.
the US are printing fake money so fast, hyperinflation is inevitable
gold(physical) and bitcoin are the sensible hedges if you want to protect against fiat currency crash
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on April 27, 2021, 02:02:23 AM
the US are printing fake money so fast, hyperinflation is inevitable
gold(physical) and bitcoin are the sensible hedges if you want to protect against fiat currency crash
Is hyperinflation worrying you? What level? In which economies? When?
I get that you would expect inflation as demand picks up after lockdown (whenever that is in each economy) and there is also the possibility of a bit of a crash down the line if the post Covid period creates a bubble. But any investor who's primary motivation to to mitigate the risk of hyperinflation is not the sort of investor that should go anywhere near cryptocurrencies.
As for fiat currency crashes? Which ones? USD has maybe a 10/12% premium but how many investors are in currency investment at all never mind USD?
It strikes me that the proponents are scratching around for a problem for their solution
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/arts/disaster-girl-meme-nft.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/arts/disaster-girl-meme-nft.html)
Also XRP with the moon shot £1.15 and rising.
Have 2 colleagues at work hard wired into this and both doing quite well
Colleague A is trying to interpret the signals, understand the science and apply some sort of rationale
Colleague B is investing in coins solely on the basis of their name and what gives him a giggle
Colleague B is currently on a better rate of return, funny old game
Keep hodling ;)
I'm with Warren Buffett on this one. If you get into the game, you might come out ahead, but this is a bubble and if you're still in it while it pops then you're screwed. And there's no way of knowing when it's going to pop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw
What happens when Musk decides to ditch BTC at its height then lambast it on SNL?? Surely it's made of stronger stuff then Dogecoin would the same thing happen??
Tom Brady with the Laser eyes.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 05, 2021, 06:37:46 PM
I'm with Warren Buffett on this one. If you get into the game, you might come out ahead, but this is a bubble and if you're still in it while it pops then you're screwed. And there's no way of knowing when it's going to pop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtITDtZPYEw
Any of the crypto supporters want to explain why Buffet has got this wrong?
I've been listening to a lot of Buffett lately. He keeps referencing an old book called The Intelligent Investor which I've started reading. It talks about drawing a distinction between investing and speculating. It says it's okay to dabble in a bit of speculation, but they recommend you do it from a smaller "mad money" account and with an amount that you don't mind losing. For the rest of your portfolio, pick under-valued stocks that are going to generate dependable growth in the long run, even if they dip once in a while. And have some bonds in there too.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2021, 11:13:40 PM
I've been listening to a lot of Buffett lately. He keeps referencing an old book called The Intelligent Investor which I've started reading. It talks about drawing a distinction between investing and speculating. It says it's okay to dabble in a bit of speculation, but they recommend you do it from a smaller "mad money" account and with an amount that you don't mind losing. For the rest of your portfolio, pick under-valued stocks that are going to generate dependable growth in the long run, even if they dip once in a while. And have some bonds in there too.
Yes I think you need a balanced portfolio. I have a pension that I build into every month, I haven't time to think about picking shares, so I pay someone to do that for me but when a huge dip comes like Covid I put more in. Then some property and then I have a about 1-2% in Crypto. Mad money like you say. Anyone going all in on Crypto would want to have a word with themselves.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 11, 2021, 11:13:40 PM
I've been listening to a lot of Buffett lately. He keeps referencing an old book called The Intelligent Investor which I've started reading. It talks about drawing a distinction between investing and speculating. It says it's okay to dabble in a bit of speculation, but they recommend you do it from a smaller "mad money" account and with an amount that you don't mind losing. For the rest of your portfolio, pick under-valued stocks that are going to generate dependable growth in the long run, even if they dip once in a while. And have some bonds in there too.
That's the entire concept of value investing. There is always risk though.
I don't think anyone here has their mortgage and kids' college money in bitcoin or any other crypto.
Will Bitcoin become a classic pump and dump? It'll get to 100k and everyone will abandon ship at that stage leaving a load of people who invested late with nothing?
It's far too precarious for my liking I've been thinking about investing in Crypto recently but the more and more I research it and the characters I listen to promoting it just seems far too risky.
In the medium term it looks like it will definitely go up given the pent up demand and inflation that seems to be coming but it's far too volatile for me.
Tesla not accepting Bitcoin anymore and the price is back towards 50k again!
Quote from: screenexile on May 13, 2021, 12:36:01 AM
Tesla not accepting Bitcoin anymore and the price is back towards 50k again!
Concerns for the environment lol. He has no problem sending up all his junk to clutter space the bellend
I know Tesla had sold 10% of their Bitcoin but did they sell the rest?
Bitcoin can climb again. It's previous rise was based on frig all so who is to say it will not happen again.
But the recent moves show how lacking in fundamentals cryptocurrency is and how vulnerable investors are to the "pump and dump" tactics of broad backed investors with profile.
Anyone investing in this is being asked to be made a mug of.
Elon Musk has proven how big investors can manipulate this market and I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't all just part of a strategy to enrich himself.
CARDANNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!
I've been doing prosper.com for years, the peer-to-peer lending site. I took out a few loans with them over the years for buying cars. Since I started investing in it I've got some decent returns. I used to browse the loan listings manually but now I just have auto-invest to pick the balance of risk that I want, and I throw a small amount of money into it each week. I was making about 6%, but I adjusted the balance to make it a bit more conservative, and now I'm getting 7.5%. Fewer people defaulting on their loans, maybe.
Thoughts on Shib?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 13, 2021, 11:23:17 PM
I've been doing prosper.com for years, the peer-to-peer lending site. I took out a few loans with them over the years for buying cars. Since I started investing in it I've got some decent returns. I used to browse the loan listings manually but now I just have auto-invest to pick the balance of risk that I want, and I throw a small amount of money into it each week. I was making about 6%, but I adjusted the balance to make it a bit more conservative, and now I'm getting 7.5%. Fewer people defaulting on their loans, maybe.
Linked finance the best decision I've made in recent years.
You put the money up to lend to small business at seeming highly rates 5% to 15%, but still better rates than the banks give them. And quicker decisions
Trick is to be patient, go for small loans to many borrowers - reduces the impact of bad debts. But linked finance does the work to reduce the chances of bad debts.
Quote from: trailer on April 23, 2021, 10:03:04 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 22, 2021, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on April 18, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
I get that you don't think BTC is valuable. You have made that point repeatedly. Like a I said a few posts back, let's bookmark this conversation for 2025 and see how things look; until then we are both wasting each other's time.
Well Joe/Mick? Bad couple of days for the bubble. Hasn't exactly burst but a little of the hot air has escaped. No doubt it will build up again.
I don't know what the significance of 2025 is and I have no idea what the value of BTC will be in 2025. Could be £500k or could be Nil.And it could be £500k on 2025 and Nil in 2026. That's my point.
Still can't get anyone who can tell me what underpins its value.
Everything I have in, I can afford to lose. But the rough idea is to hold BTC till 2025 unless there are huge profits between now and then. But the overall idea with it is long term.
With ADA I was hoping for short term gains between 5 or 10x. Dunno how likely that'll be now. Prepared for that to go to zero. But it didn't have the huge breakout that other coins have had and they are due to make some announcements around it's platform in the next month, so we will see.
I have a very small stake in XRP which is a punt as I bought round 30p. It could skyrocket off the back of the SEC case or it could go to zero. But I have only £500 in it.
This is possible now. About 3x at the min.
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
Dunno. I bought more Bitcoin this am. Long term it's still a good investment I feel.
Quote from: trailer on May 19, 2021, 12:23:29 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
Dunno. I bought more Bitcoin this am. Long term it's still a good investment I feel.
yep buy the dip and hodl, it's a long term play, not some get rich quick scheme
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
Huge losses if you both in the last week.
But they're still up 20%-30% if you bought 3 months ago and 100%-300% if you bought a year ago.
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
Mayhem in the crypto markets the last half hour
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2021, 01:57:59 PM
Mayhem in the crypto markets the last half hour
XRP having a nightmare.
Havent looked at the rest - they the same?
Sat here watching Cardano the last hour and it wasn't far of 50% down at one stage.
Quote from: Taylor on May 19, 2021, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2021, 01:57:59 PM
Mayhem in the crypto markets the last half hour
XRP having a nightmare.
Havent looked at the rest - they the same?
i'm still up on XRP thankfully. it's only down because Bitcoin has dragged it down with it.
Can anybody care to explain what is going on with Crypto at the minute? Bitcoin and most other currencies down almost 20% so far today. Falling like a stone since Elon Musk announced he was withdrawing last week, is there something else going on.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 19, 2021, 02:49:01 PM
Can anybody care to explain what is going on with Crypto at the minute? Bitcoin and most other currencies down almost 20% so far today. Falling like a stone since Elon Musk announced he was withdrawing last week, is there something else going on.
China has cracked down on Crypto:
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/what-beijings-new-crackdown-means-crypto-china-2021-05-19/
If you can time the bottom here you could make a killing
Quote from: Maroon Manc on May 19, 2021, 02:29:27 PM
Sat here watching Cardano the last hour and it wasn't far of 50% down at one stage.
I'm still up on Cardano and XRP but have taken a fair hit on Bitcoin.
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2021, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 19, 2021, 02:49:01 PM
Can anybody care to explain what is going on with Crypto at the minute? Bitcoin and most other currencies down almost 20% so far today. Falling like a stone since Elon Musk announced he was withdrawing last week, is there something else going on.
China has cracked down on Crypto:
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/what-beijings-new-crackdown-means-crypto-china-2021-05-19/
China is the first to do what is right and correct. How far behind them will the USA be?
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 19, 2021, 06:38:26 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 19, 2021, 02:55:18 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 19, 2021, 02:49:01 PM
Can anybody care to explain what is going on with Crypto at the minute? Bitcoin and most other currencies down almost 20% so far today. Falling like a stone since Elon Musk announced he was withdrawing last week, is there something else going on.
China has cracked down on Crypto:
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/what-beijings-new-crackdown-means-crypto-china-2021-05-19/
China is the first to do what is right and correct. How far behind them will the USA be?
I think the SEC v Ripple court case will end up providing regulatory clarity for crypto in the USA. The CEO of Ripple has previously said that he believes 99% of Crypto will disappear.
https://www.ft.com/content/36180ce3-1ae6-40a3-b3a3-9eb1b4312f3d
as a longtime visitor to Silicon Valley C-suites, he frets about the barbarians at the crypto gates. "What I worry about it that these hackers are getting awfully good," he said. "Someone is going to hack bitcoin one of these days. Figure it out. The hacking that is going on from Russia and China, and who knows where it is going on, is just incredible."
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Well it is on the rise again in a big way today already so for this latest drop it seems to have bottomed out, no?
Trying to have sensible conversations with people who are gambling on crypto and who've never invested in anything previously is tough work.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
it will, i have orders in at 23 and 18, should be another big downswing to shake everyone out then rocket up again
Quote from: Itchy on May 20, 2021, 04:34:45 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Well it is on the rise again in a big way today already so for this latest drop it seems to have bottomed out, no?
Doesn't really answer the questions. If it drops tomorrow or the day after then it won't have bottomed out today.
What's the underlying value that it won't drop below on a sustained basis?
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
An investment strategy based on hope.
When this shitshow blows up sympathy will be as scarce then as logic is now
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 20, 2021, 08:04:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
it will, i have orders in at 23 and 18, should be another big downswing to shake everyone out then rocket up again
Should?
Talk me through the mathematics and market performance data on that prediction?
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on May 20, 2021, 08:04:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
it will, i have orders in at 23 and 18, should be another big downswing to shake everyone out then rocket up again
Do you care to explain your rationale for making this prediction? In the same way posters were predicting $100k for Bitcoin a few weeks ago we now have posters predicting $20k. I'm not saying either can't or won't happen but it seems that a lot of people are just getting sucked into the herd mentality with absolutely no logical rationale for their prediction. I'm all ears if somebody can sway me otherwise.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
An investment strategy based on hope.
When this shitshow blows up sympathy will be as scarce then as logic is now
Whats with the attitude?
I hear Dutch tulips are going to bounce back any day now.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
An investment strategy based on hope.
When this shitshow blows up sympathy will be as scarce then as logic is now
Whats with the attitude?
Getting a bit tired of the crypto fans willing to encourage investment in this "asset" but unwilling to provide any analysis of how it's value is determined other than some hope based modern day tulip
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
An investment strategy based on hope.
When this shitshow blows up sympathy will be as scarce then as logic is now
Whats with the attitude?
Getting a bit tired of the crypto fans willing to encourage investment in this "asset" but unwilling to provide any analysis of how it's value is determined other than some hope based modern day tulip
It's value is determined the way it is for any asset or commodity. What people will pay for it.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 11:23:25 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
An investment strategy based on hope.
When this shitshow blows up sympathy will be as scarce then as logic is now
Whats with the attitude?
Getting a bit tired of the crypto fans willing to encourage investment in this "asset" but unwilling to provide any analysis of how it's value is determined other than some hope based modern day tulip
It's value is determined the way it is for any asset or commodity. What people will pay for it.
There's market value and intrinsic value. Crypto has plenty of the former, f*** all of the latter. Corporate stock has some value, there's usually a profitable company behind it with actual assets and the ability to generate revenue. Crypto's usefulness is a lot more limited than that.
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 11:23:25 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:58:25 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 10:44:26 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 10:06:57 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 20, 2021, 06:58:51 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 04:13:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 19, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: general on May 19, 2021, 12:16:18 PM
Huge Losses across all crypto today!
Bitcoin 13%
Ethereum 19.55%
Litecoin 17.77%
Beginning of the end??
No. Its experienced worse weeks than this and bounced back stronger. Waiting to this bottoms out before buying.
How will you know when it bottoms out?
What is its core value that you think it will bottom out at?
Was hoping for under $20k but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
An investment strategy based on hope.
When this shitshow blows up sympathy will be as scarce then as logic is now
Whats with the attitude?
Getting a bit tired of the crypto fans willing to encourage investment in this "asset" but unwilling to provide any analysis of how it's value is determined other than some hope based modern day tulip
It's value is determined the way it is for any asset or commodity. What people will pay for it.
Yeah that's the tulip argument. We are 24 pages in none of the proponents of crypto as an investment have been able to come up with a better argument than bloody tulips. Is that not a tiny bit concerning?? The whiff of Ponzi only grows when those endorsing an investment can't come up with a better supporting argument
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 11:43:17 PM
Yeah that's the tulip argument. We are 24 pages in none of the proponents of crypto as an investment have been able to come up with a better argument than bloody tulips. Is that not a tiny bit concerning?? The whiff of Ponzi only grows when those endorsing an investment can't come up with a better supporting argument
Again, what is the difference between crypto and FIAT currency?
Can you eat or drink pound coins?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2021, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 11:43:17 PM
Yeah that's the tulip argument. We are 24 pages in none of the proponents of crypto as an investment have been able to come up with a better argument than bloody tulips. Is that not a tiny bit concerning?? The whiff of Ponzi only grows when those endorsing an investment can't come up with a better supporting argument
Again, what is the difference between crypto and FIAT currency?
Can you eat or drink pound coins?
The value of Fiat currencies are largely influenced by dynamics in the real economy. You can establish the true value of a currency and whether it is under valued or over valued. The only argument put forward for the value of crypto here has been the tulip argument. Feel free to point out a better argument
Massive overleveraging has been washed out of the market the last week. It was way over heated and a correction was badly needed/inevitable. Big investors and institutions are buying this up while the Average Joe's are selling in a panic, many at a loss.
Probably a slow grind up from here possibly but CME futures gap at about $49,000 might pull it up quicker than we might expect.
Crypto is a subset of the money supply.
Same as Dublin house prices.
The global economy is a series of asset bubbles.
When everything is mispriced the concept of value is a joke.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 21, 2021, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 20, 2021, 11:43:17 PM
Yeah that's the tulip argument. We are 24 pages in none of the proponents of crypto as an investment have been able to come up with a better argument than bloody tulips. Is that not a tiny bit concerning?? The whiff of Ponzi only grows when those endorsing an investment can't come up with a better supporting argument
Again, what is the difference between crypto and FIAT currency?
Can you eat or drink pound coins?
Fiat currency is regulated by central banks and has a stable value. Crypto is not. A stable value is one of the things that makes currency useful and helps everyone to trust it. Crypto is only trusted by a small number of tinfoil hat-wearing fanboys who don't understand what central banks do, plus a handful of speculators. Its utility as a means of exchange is limited to say the least. Paying for your big mac with US dollars is a lot easier than paying for it with Bitcoin.
Been a f**king rollercoaster this past week.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 21, 2021, 09:53:07 PM
The value of Fiat currencies are largely influenced by dynamics in the real economy.
And a cryptocurrency is not constrained by national boundaries. Therefore, in theory (which we may see over the ultra long term - or to be fair, never see), be more resilient to fluctuations than national currencies.
Obviously, now its still an immature sh!tshow.
But, rewind to the 2016 Brexit vote - if there were a stable currency that kept you on the fence and you could put your money in which wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg in bank fees and you could quickly liquidate to a currency of your choosing later on and would leave you at least neutral to any change in GBP vs. Euro - would that concept not be worthwhile?
Or, say, if I wanted to buy a car in Japan and import it to here. The choices are:
- go through a bank, taking the x% hit on the transaction from GBP/Eur to Yen
- go via cryptocurrency, 0 transaction fees.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Fiat currency is regulated by central banks
Who regularly print more money which devalues the money already in circulation.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
and has a stable value.
Tell that to people in the likes of Zimbabwe!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Crypto is not. A stable value is one of the things that makes currency useful and helps everyone to trust it.
Completely agree. Crypto is still far too immature to be useful.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AMCrypto is only trusted by a small number of tinfoil hat-wearing fanboys who don't understand what central banks do,
So tell us exactly what central banks do then...
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Its utility as a means of exchange is limited to say the least.
Agreed. Far too cumbersome for small exchanges.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AMPaying for your big mac with US dollars is a lot easier than paying for it with Bitcoin.
But a sizeable international transaction is far cheaper with bitcoin.
For the avoidance of any doubt - I do largely agree.
Cryptocurrency as an "investment" is more or less pot luck. There are no compelling reasons right now for it going up* in value. It has little widespread acceptance and is too unstable to function as a useful tool - namely - transactions outside of bank fees - particularly international ones... and especially for multinationals wanting to move around profits outside the view of the taxman.
But - for people arguing it has, and can never have, absolutely no useful purpose - they need to get over themselves and broaden their horizons.
*especially bitcoin, which is far too resource expensive.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2021, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Fiat currency is regulated by central banks
Who regularly print more money which devalues the money already in circulation.
"Regularly?" That's been a recent phenomenon, and only in carefully controlled bursts. They've learned their lesson from 1930s Germany.
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
and has a stable value.
Tell that to people in the likes of Zimbabwe!
Hardly a representative example, wouldn't you say? That's like saying "tell that to the people of Venezuela" whenever someone suggests socialist policies. The extreme example is seldom a typical example. Hyperinflation is not something we see a lot of in the developed world these days.
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AMCrypto is only trusted by a small number of tinfoil hat-wearing fanboys who don't understand what central banks do,
So tell us exactly what central banks do then...
Depends on the central bank. In the case of the US Federal Reserve, its remit is to control inflation and boost economic growth. Last time I looked, the ECB only had a remit to control inflation, hence austerity was a policy that gained more ground in Europe, which in my opinion slowed down the recovery from 2008 and caused unnecessary hardship. But this is digressing.
From the top of my head, central banks:
- Manage the money supply
- Control inflation
- In some cases they enable stimulatory policy
- Control interest rates by manipulating the bond markets
- Set the reserve requirements of retail and investment banks, which limits how much they can add to the money supply and controls the level of risk they can take
One of the main purposes of central banks is to smooth out the volatility that's inherent in markets. The volatility of crypto "currencies" is a good illustration of what happens when you don't have that regulating mechanism.
Quote
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AMPaying for your big mac with US dollars is a lot easier than paying for it with Bitcoin.
But a sizeable international transaction is far cheaper with bitcoin.
How so?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2021, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 21, 2021, 09:53:07 PM
The value of Fiat currencies are largely influenced by dynamics in the real economy.
And a cryptocurrency is not constrained by national boundaries. Therefore, in theory (which we may see over the ultra long term - or to be fair, never see), be more resilient to fluctuations than national currencies.
Obviously, now its still an immature sh!tshow.
But, rewind to the 2016 Brexit vote - if there were a stable currency that kept you on the fence and you could put your money in which wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg in bank fees and you could quickly liquidate to a currency of your choosing later on and would leave you at least neutral to any change in GBP vs. Euro - would that concept not be worthwhile?
Or, say, if I wanted to buy a car in Japan and import it to here. The choices are:
- go through a bank, taking the x% hit on the transaction from GBP/Eur to Yen
- go via cryptocurrency, 0 transaction fees.
A bit old hat to say currencies are constrained by national boundaries. They are constrained by their acceptance by boundaries. In addition to being able to use euros in Belfast or USD in Manila things like Revolut make that concept redundant.
Nor are their values bounded by national boundaries. Which national boundaries apply to the euro? And look at the volume of USD denominated transactions that have nothing to do with USA.
As for Brexit the dollar was pretty stable for the few to whom it mattered. Holding cash isn't smart. And crypto isn't providing any solution given its massive volatility and foundationless value.
As for buying a Japanese car directly from Japan fees and commissions have never been less and fees are tiny relative to base movements in the currency. On the latter more important issue crypto has been a basket case. If I meet anyone who has bought a car directly from Japan I will be sure to commiserate
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2021, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Fiat currency is regulated by central banks
Who regularly print more money which devalues the money already in circulation.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
and has a stable value.
Tell that to people in the likes of Zimbabwe!
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Crypto is not. A stable value is one of the things that makes currency useful and helps everyone to trust it.
Completely agree. Crypto is still far too immature to be useful.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AMCrypto is only trusted by a small number of tinfoil hat-wearing fanboys who don't understand what central banks do,
So tell us exactly what central banks do then...
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AM
Its utility as a means of exchange is limited to say the least.
Agreed. Far too cumbersome for small exchanges.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 22, 2021, 06:33:39 AMPaying for your big mac with US dollars is a lot easier than paying for it with Bitcoin.
But a sizeable international transaction is far cheaper with bitcoin.
Some barrel scraping there.
Crypto is far more open to manipulation than fiat currencies. The decentralised model is often presented as a trump argument but it has yet to prove a good thing.
When you separate Bitcoin as a currency form blockchain as a system then I am not seeing how it's cheaper
I forgot to add, creating more fiat currency doesn't contribute to an environmental catastrophe in energy usage.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 25, 2021, 12:40:02 AM
I forgot to add, creating more fiat currency doesn't contribute to an environmental catastrophe in energy usage.
I'd love to know what the traditional banking system uses energy wise. Do you think it runs off fairy dust and rainbows?
Quote from: trailer on May 25, 2021, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 25, 2021, 12:40:02 AM
I forgot to add, creating more fiat currency doesn't contribute to an environmental catastrophe in energy usage.
I'd love to know what the traditional banking system uses energy wise. Do you think it runs off fairy dust and rainbows?
No. I don't think it runs off fairy dust and rainbows. But crypto currency is renowned for the amount of computing power it takes to mine a new unit. Fiat currency is not.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 25, 2021, 06:07:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on May 25, 2021, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 25, 2021, 12:40:02 AM
I forgot to add, creating more fiat currency doesn't contribute to an environmental catastrophe in energy usage.
I'd love to know what the traditional banking system uses energy wise. Do you think it runs off fairy dust and rainbows?
No. I don't think it runs off fairy dust and rainbows. But crypto currency is renowned for the amount of computing power it takes to mine a new unit. Fiat currency is not.
Renowned?? For you have data to prove which currency is most energy hungry?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 24, 2021, 10:52:34 PM
"Regularly?" That's been a recent phenomenon, and only in carefully controlled bursts. They've learned their lesson from 1930s Germany.
Please Eamonn.
Literally the first google hit:
https://www.cityam.com/almost-a-fifth-of-all-us-dollars-were-created-this-year/
and literally the second google hit:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williammeehan/2020/10/21/can-the-federal-reserve-print-money-forever-or-how-continuing-to-print-money-to-support-deficit-spending-may-end-badly-with-chinas-help/
Quote from: Eamonnca1
Hardly a representative example, wouldn't you say? That's like saying "tell that to the people of Venezuela" whenever someone suggests socialist policies. The extreme example is seldom a typical example. Hyperinflation is not something we see a lot of in the developed world these days.
But an example nonetheless.
I could point to relatively stable cryptos like USDT as well. But that doesn't suit your argument.
Quote from: Eamonnca1
Depends on the central bank. In the case of the US Federal Reserve, its remit is to control inflation and boost economic growth. Last time I looked, the ECB only had a remit to control inflation, hence austerity was a policy that gained more ground in Europe, which in my opinion slowed down the recovery from 2008 and caused unnecessary hardship. But this is digressing.
From the top of my head, central banks:
- Manage the money supply
- Control inflation
- In some cases they enable stimulatory policy
- Control interest rates by manipulating the bond markets
- Set the reserve requirements of retail and investment banks, which limits how much they can add to the money supply and controls the level of risk they can take
One of the main purposes of central banks is to smooth out the volatility that's inherent in markets. The volatility of crypto "currencies" is a good illustration of what happens when you don't have that regulating mechanism.
Yes, and great job they did. That 2008 crash must have been a figment of our imagination then?
Oh, and by "manage the money supply", you mean - print money - which results in whats in your pocket today being worth less in a year.
Quote from: Eamonnca1
How so?
Go see what your bank will charge you for the same privilege.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 24, 2021, 11:32:45 PM
A bit old hat to say currencies are constrained by national boundaries. They are constrained by their acceptance by boundaries. In addition to being able to use euros in Belfast or USD in Manila things like Revolut make that concept redundant.
Nor are their values bounded by national boundaries. Which national boundaries apply to the euro? And look at the volume of USD denominated transactions that have nothing to do with USA.
Interesting take. Now lets flip that on its head.
A bit old hat to say currencies are constrained by national boundaries. They are constrained by their acceptance by boundaries. In addition to being able to use crypto in Belfast or in Manila things like ethereum make that concept redundant.
Nor are their values bounded by national boundaries. Which national boundaries apply to ADA? And look at the volume of XRP denominated transactions that have nothing to do with any country.
Quote from: smelmothAs for Brexit the dollar was pretty stable for the few to whom it mattered. Holding cash isn't smart.
Having "crisis agnostic" cash is a necessity if you are a business that imports and exports.
Quote from: smelmothAnd crypto isn't providing any solution given its massive volatility
Agreed. Most are far too volatile to be useful. Tether is more useful in that regard - but has exactly the same issues as national coinage.
Quote from: smelmothand foundationless value.
Once again - what is the foundational value of a dollar note? Or a fiver?
You've this perception that your pound or euro is worth something intrinsic. It isn't. Its worth exactly what whoever you want to buy something off thinks its worth.
RGG its really important that any discussions does not go down the Angelo style of tilting at windmills. I think you are in danger of that with the national boundaries line of argument
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2021, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 24, 2021, 11:32:45 PM
A bit old hat to say currencies are constrained by national boundaries. They are constrained by their acceptance by boundaries. In addition to being able to use euros in Belfast or USD in Manila things like Revolut make that concept redundant.
Nor are their values bounded by national boundaries. Which national boundaries apply to the euro? And look at the volume of USD denominated transactions that have nothing to do with USA.
Interesting take. Now lets flip that on its head.
A bit old hat to say currencies are constrained by national boundaries. They are constrained by their acceptance by boundaries. In addition to being able to use crypto in Belfast or in Manila things like ethereum make that concept redundant.
Nor are their values bounded by national boundaries. Which national boundaries apply to ADA? And look at the volume of XRP denominated transactions that have nothing to do with any country.
I only mention national boundaries in response to this;
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 24, 2021, 08:15:50 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 21, 2021, 09:53:07 PM
The value of Fiat currencies are largely influenced by dynamics in the real economy.
And a cryptocurrency is not constrained by national boundaries. Therefore, in theory (which we may see over the ultra long term - or to be fair, never see), be more resilient to fluctuations than national currencies.
I am not saying there isn't or won't be international acceptance of cryptocurrencies. I merely point out that its wrong to say that there is not international acceptance or some Fiat currencies.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2021, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: smelmothAs for Brexit the dollar was pretty stable for the few to whom it mattered. Holding cash isn't smart.
Having "crisis agnostic" cash is a necessity if you are a business that imports and exports.
Really? You think businesses routinely hold cash and hold it in a range of currencies? Would forwards not be the more routine approach of 90%+ of businesses involved in import/export/international settlement?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 25, 2021, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: smelmothAnd crypto isn't providing any solution given its massive volatility
Agreed. Most are far too volatile to be useful. Tether is more useful in that regard - but has exactly the same issues as national coinage.
Quote from: smelmothand foundationless value.
Once again - what is the foundational value of a dollar note? Or a fiver?
You've this perception that your pound or euro is worth something intrinsic. It isn't. Its worth exactly what whoever you want to buy something off thinks its worth.
The foundational value of any given crypto is zero. The value goes up or down based upon the the self interest proclamations of large investors. The value can collapse by 50% in a short period of time with absolute no changes in the real world economy.
Think of the set of circumstances that would be required for USD, Euro, Sterling, or Yen to fall 50% (interest rates in the host economy, inflation rate in the host economy, demand for and supply of that currency etc). Demand for any one of them is not going to collapse in that period but should it happen it would be visible. The small band of currency investors can react to it, Crypto has retail investors who wake up and find that that value has fluctuated overnight based upon a whim. Its a basket case in terms of investment
I still have a load of Eastern European currency in my wallet from a trip I made in 2007. As worthless as ever, not accepted in bureau de change. If only I could invest it in crypto currency. Which is more worthless?
Quote from: smelmoth on May 27, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
I am not saying there isn't or won't be international acceptance of cryptocurrencies. I merely point out that its wrong to say that there is not international acceptance or some Fiat currencies.
Fair enough
Quote from: smelmoth on May 27, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
Really? You think businesses routinely hold cash and hold it in a range of currencies? Would forwards not be the more routine approach of 90%+ of businesses involved in import/export/international settlement?
Of course they do. Go look at annual accounts of any big business, they'll have millions, if not billions available in free cash. That doesn't stop them being leveraged - but they need cash to operate
Quote from: smelmoth on May 27, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
The foundational value of any given crypto is zero.
Think of the set of circumstances that would be required for USD, Euro, Sterling, or Yen to fall 50% (interest rates in the host economy, inflation rate in the host economy, demand for and supply of that currency etc). Demand for any one of them is not going to collapse in that period but should it happen it would be visible.
Rewind to the first lockdown. If the shelves in the shops had went bare of food, you'd pretty quickly have seen just how thin that facade you think is a buttress actually is.
Quote from: trileacman on April 26, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 24, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Regarding the US Dollar, where did the government acquire the trillions for the stimulus packages over the past year with plenty more on the way? Inflation is well over 10%,
Immediately forgot everything you said after that gem.
No idea where you reside, if it is in the US it has got to be under a rock. Head for Home Depot, building materials up on average 70%, the gas pumps, up over 35% and go price used cars and trucks up 10% in April alone just for starters. This cannot be all down to supply and demand. Then there are the individuals, like the poster before you, who believes in all government statistics, be it inflation or unemployment figures, you name it. Governments well proven to be pathological liars in just about all aspects of our lives.
So printing (done digitally now) trillions of dollars from fresh air will have no consequences in the future when it comes to inflation? It already has. Also the global warming/climate change hoax has already inflated gas prices massively due to a presidential action last January.
Staying with "climate change" for a minute, an influencer, by uttering a few words on the bases of the hoax had the price of BTC drop 9K in less than one hour, bring the altcoins down with it. Remember the same influencer moved the worthless (at the moment) Dogecoin in the opposite direction. A couple of weeks later the Chinese government made a statement that they are restricting institutions from buying cryptocurrencies and curtailing BTC mining in the best interest of the hoax. All done purposely to scare the gullible public and manipulate the market.
Answer the question, where does the US government get the trillions to throw around like confetti at a wedding? Don't bother telling me your opinion on the real rate of inflation, it's obvious you believe the lie.
Quote from: Seamus on May 28, 2021, 04:50:44 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 26, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 24, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Regarding the US Dollar, where did the government acquire the trillions for the stimulus packages over the past year with plenty more on the way? Inflation is well over 10%,
Immediately forgot everything you said after that gem.
No idea where you reside, if it is in the US it has got to be under a rock. Head for Home Depot, building materials up on average 70%, the gas pumps, up over 35% and go price used cars and trucks up 10% in April alone just for starters. This cannot be all down to supply and demand. Then there are the individuals, like the poster before you, who believes in all government statistics, be it inflation or unemployment figures, you name it. Governments well proven to be pathological liars in just about all aspects of our lives.
So printing (done digitally now) trillions of dollars from fresh air will have no consequences in the future when it comes to inflation? It already has. Also the global warming/climate change hoax has already inflated gas prices massively due to a presidential action last January.
Staying with "climate change" for a minute, an influencer, by uttering a few words on the bases of the hoax had the price of BTC drop 9K in less than one hour, bring the altcoins down with it. Remember the same influencer moved the worthless (at the moment) Dogecoin in the opposite direction. A couple of weeks later the Chinese government made a statement that they are restricting institutions from buying cryptocurrencies and curtailing BTC mining in the best interest of the hoax. All done purposely to scare the gullible public and manipulate the market.
Answer the question, where does the US government get the trillions to throw around like confetti at a wedding? Don't bother telling me your opinion on the real rate of inflation, it's obvious you believe the lie.
Sorry Seamus.
What??
The bloodbath continues. Would someone please buy the f**king dip.
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 27, 2021, 11:09:20 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 27, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
I am not saying there isn't or won't be international acceptance of cryptocurrencies. I merely point out that its wrong to say that there is not international acceptance or some Fiat currencies.
Fair enough
Quote from: smelmoth on May 27, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
Really? You think businesses routinely hold cash and hold it in a range of currencies? Would forwards not be the more routine approach of 90%+ of businesses involved in import/export/international settlement?
Of course they do. Go look at annual accounts of any big business, they'll have millions, if not billions available in free cash. That doesn't stop them being leveraged - but they need cash to operate
Quote from: smelmoth on May 27, 2021, 09:01:31 AM
The foundational value of any given crypto is zero.
Think of the set of circumstances that would be required for USD, Euro, Sterling, or Yen to fall 50% (interest rates in the host economy, inflation rate in the host economy, demand for and supply of that currency etc). Demand for any one of them is not going to collapse in that period but should it happen it would be visible.
Rewind to the first lockdown. If the shelves in the shops had went bare of food, you'd pretty quickly have seen just how thin that facade you think is a buttress actually is.
With few exceptions business' try to minimise their cash holding. What is the evidence that they hold it deliberately, hold a range of currencies and hold them specifically to hedge against forex movements?
Businesses don't like non-earning assets. Cash is non earning. Holding it to mitigate a risk makes no sense when there are other more resource efficient ways of managing that risk.
You are going to need to flesh out your last point for me to respond
Quote from: Seamus on May 28, 2021, 04:50:44 AM
Quote from: trileacman on April 26, 2021, 11:41:36 PM
Quote from: Seamus on April 24, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Regarding the US Dollar, where did the government acquire the trillions for the stimulus packages over the past year with plenty more on the way? Inflation is well over 10%,
Immediately forgot everything you said after that gem.
No idea where you reside, if it is in the US it has got to be under a rock. Head for Home Depot, building materials up on average 70%, the gas pumps, up over 35% and go price used cars and trucks up 10% in April alone just for starters. This cannot be all down to supply and demand. Then there are the individuals, like the poster before you, who believes in all government statistics, be it inflation or unemployment figures, you name it. Governments well proven to be pathological liars in just about all aspects of our lives.
So printing (done digitally now) trillions of dollars from fresh air will have no consequences in the future when it comes to inflation? It already has. Also the global warming/climate change hoax has already inflated gas prices massively due to a presidential action last January.
Staying with "climate change" for a minute, an influencer, by uttering a few words on the bases of the hoax had the price of BTC drop 9K in less than one hour, bring the altcoins down with it. Remember the same influencer moved the worthless (at the moment) Dogecoin in the opposite direction. A couple of weeks later the Chinese government made a statement that they are restricting institutions from buying cryptocurrencies and curtailing BTC mining in the best interest of the hoax. All done purposely to scare the gullible public and manipulate the market.
Answer the question, where does the US government get the trillions to throw around like confetti at a wedding? Don't bother telling me your opinion on the real rate of inflation, it's obvious you believe the lie.
Another Angelo that needs ignored
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 09:01:44 AM
With few exceptions business' try to minimise their cash holding. What is the evidence that they hold it deliberately, hold a range of currencies and hold them specifically to hedge against forex movements?
Businesses don't like non-earning assets. Cash is non earning. Holding it to mitigate a risk makes no sense when there are other more resource efficient ways of managing that risk.
I'm not talking about national businesses - I'm talking international with significant overheads. They need money available to service suppliers and absorb bumps. It's not sitting idle, its constantly being used and replenished.
Perhaps I'm biased by my field, in which there are massive R&D and fixed cost overheads as well as dealing with significant unknowns at a regular basis, but businesses without reasonable liquidity are constantly skirting disaster. Yeah, it may look good on a few quarter's returns - but I wouldn't necessarily regard that as well run.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 09:01:44 AM
You are going to need to flesh out your last point for me to respond
Pretty obvious. If the shelves are empty in the shops - how are you going to feed yourself and your family with your paper note with exactly the same foundational value as any cryptocurrency? You can eat neither.
Seeing a lot of stuff about 'Vechain'
Is it worth putting a bit of money into?
I know very little about crypto.
Quote from: toby47 on June 01, 2021, 03:14:08 PM
Seeing a lot of stuff about 'Vechain'
Is it worth putting a bit of money into?
I know very little about crypto.
Yes Vechain along with Cardano
Quote from: toby47 on June 01, 2021, 03:14:08 PM
Seeing a lot of stuff about 'Vechain'
Is it worth putting a bit of money into?
As Smeloth says - its not worth anything* - only what the hype train makes of it.
If you think your in the first few stops of the hype train's journey, by all means. If you think the hype train is nearing its final destination - best left alone.
*unless you've solid evidence big businesses are starting to migrate to it. Which they won't because it will be too unstable otherwise the hype train wouldn't be interested!
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 31, 2021, 09:02:21 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 09:01:44 AM
With few exceptions business' try to minimise their cash holding. What is the evidence that they hold it deliberately, hold a range of currencies and hold them specifically to hedge against forex movements?
Businesses don't like non-earning assets. Cash is non earning. Holding it to mitigate a risk makes no sense when there are other more resource efficient ways of managing that risk.
I'm not talking about national businesses - I'm talking international with significant overheads. They need money available to service suppliers and absorb bumps. It's not sitting idle, its constantly being used and replenished.
Perhaps I'm biased by my field, in which there are massive R&D and fixed cost overheads as well as dealing with significant unknowns at a regular basis, but businesses without reasonable liquidity are constantly skirting disaster. Yeah, it may look good on a few quarter's returns - but I wouldn't necessarily regard that as well run.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 09:01:44 AM
You are going to need to flesh out your last point for me to respond
Pretty obvious. If the shelves are empty in the shops - how are you going to feed yourself and your family with your paper note with exactly the same foundational value as any cryptocurrency? You can eat neither.
Well you will be the expert in your own field but in terms of large international businesses generally as a rule they try to minimise cash holdings. You don't need dead cash to do any of the things you mention. You need liquid availability. The latter is what businesses do.
Many will have zero cash on the balance sheet and the rest tend to only have the that which they can't avoid holding. But basically they are trying to minimise that holding.
As for your last point I genuinely thought you were going to make some point in favour of crypto. Instead all we got was that if a thing that didn't happen had of happened then crypto would have been no better than money at buying a thing because the thing didn't exist.
I don't want to be harsh but it's a very weak point
What do ye think of this thread
https://twitter.com/CroissantEth/status/1399828507849527298?s=1005
I was wondering musks game was but is this it or a bit far fetched?
Some fall in Crypto lately. I do now doubt if any of the technology has any use. Bitcoin is the barometer. If it all falls all the other Alt and Shit coins fall as well. Nothing has a proper value and most likely nothing has a real world use. Dogecoin a perfect example. It's going to zero.
Mugs game...
Bought BTC when at £47,183, then £45,830, then £39,347
Now down to £21,459.. Good job was only pocket change
Had some XRP - lost over half investment :-[
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2021, 02:32:49 PM
Had some XRP - lost over half investment :-[
My XRP is still up. But I should've sold.
Bitcoin is down about half, I got in in Dec 2020 and kept buying until a few weeks ago.
ADA - is down about 1/4.
So fun times.
Quote from: Taylor on June 22, 2021, 02:32:49 PM
Had some XRP - lost over half investment :-[
I'm still up in XRP but I never took any profits when it was near $2 which I kind of regret. It's easy to buy low but knowing when to sell is a lot more difficult due to fomo.
I'm not worried as it will get over $2 and beyond whenever the SEC case is settled and then I'll definitely be selling.
This thread does nothing to make me think I was wrong to get out when I did!
I've been constantly regretting that I'm a lazy so and do and never bothered looking more into Crypto. Might be the best as I think I'd have struggled to cash out!!
When you see how some people are so into it that their constantly looking at it, I think that's not for me. I'd be up to high dough!!
I am still amazed by the people who are going to cash out at the right time. I haven't met one who can explain when the right time will be?
We will get to know when the right time was. It's possible that it's already a date in the past.
But tulips from Amsterdam will be soundtrack to this drama
Crypto on the hike again?
Quote from: toby47 on August 06, 2021, 08:47:41 AM
Crypto on the hike again?
It's always gonna go up long term.
Made an NFT for a laugh to see what all the fuss was about. Some eejit paid £120 for it and relistee it immediately for £500.
There's a niche here if you've got an idea and a bit of brains to make a shit load of money
Quote from: AnPuca on August 06, 2021, 11:53:33 PM
Made an NFT for a laugh to see what all the fuss was about. Some eejit paid £120 for it and relistee it immediately for £500.
There's a niche here if you've got an idea and a bit of brains to make a shit load of money
Seriously? What was it of??
Crypto is a typical asset bubble. You need the right metrics to know when to get out. Most people don't know how to do it.
The best way to make money is to buy when eveyone else is selling
.
I see Bitcoin took off again. Hit it's all time high this week. $67,000
FT saying people are using crypto as an inflation hedge but that it has never been done before. Crypto is very volatile
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 12:35:44 PM
FT saying people are using crypto as an inflation hedge but that it has never been done before. Crypto is very volatile
It's volatile short term, but it's only going one way, look at a moving average over any half decent period of time. So over any reasonable time frame it will go up. Obviously it won't keep making 100% gains on average per year forever as it becomes a bigger market cap and will ultimately be an asset that can be used to ensure that the purchasing power of your money isn't being inflated away.
Whether Bitcoin is the answer, and I think it might be, it is becoming very clear that the world and its economies can't keep going on forever as we have been. There are huge amounts of money being printed each year in order to keep everything afloat, the increase in the money supply is something like 15% per year.
But interest rates need to be kept close to zero because and increase in the rates will have a hugely negative impact on the economies given the huge size of debts (institutional and government) across the world.
The current official CPI rate is 5.3% (from memory). Even if you accept that is right, I know in our business inflation is running at much higher than 5.3%, it makes no sense to hold 10 year treasuries (or anything like that) at 1.3%.
There are trillions of dollars being "invested" into bonds and those types of assets that are guaranteed to lose real purchasing power. It's only a matter of time until they start moving across into Bitcoin, and not for the 100% gains, but only because it is a huge risk by keeping money invested at bond rates.
It could be said that inflation won't stay at 5%, but in recent months, I note that there is now a willingness to accept that these rates may no longer just be "transitory", and to be honest when the money supply is growing at more than 5% per year how do we expect interest rates to fall below 5%.
The 1.3% interest rates are manipulated to stay low, so it doesn't cause an interest on the debt problem.
Bitcoin, and Crypto more widely, now gives people a choice of whether to stay solely in the fiat system where you are mad to keep anything in cash or cash equivalents as its purchasing power is getting eroded so quickly and hence we are seeing large increases in hard assets such as property or to start dipping their toe into the Crypto space where rates aren't manipulated and are set by the market.
I don't just mean the price of Bitcoin is set by the market. I am referring to stablecoins (these are pegged to the USD) and you can get interest on them at 8% per annum. That seems crazy when we get almost zero interest on savings (or even negative interest rates in Euroland), but that's probably about right if you think inflation is running in excess of 5% and you can invest money into hard assets and make double digit percentage returns.
Yes, Bitcoin does get overheated and it crashes, but it's not a bubble as bubbles don't form multiple times in a generally predictable cyclical pattern. But I believe that it will be the answer as it becomes self fulfilling once the market cap continues to rise.
I think the rise of populism and doing whatever it takes to get elected means that its not in any politicans' interest to provide the medicine that would be needed to bring this back under control. So we take the easy path and print easy money. But wealthy people / investors know that they need to do something to ensure their purchasing power is not eroded.
Just this week we saw the first Bitcoin ETFs traded and the Houston Firefighters Pension putting a small amount of their assets in Bitcoin. We now have a country using Bitcoin for the famous coffee purchases and the Bitcoin network (via Lightning) is facilitating these small payments. The Bitcoin network can even be used to send a currency (GBP or USD) to another user at almost zero costs, so the users don't even have to be holding / using Bitcoin.
The remittance industry (ie Western Union etc) is totally screwed as improvements will be made as it is actively being used every day in El Salvador.
My personal view is that Bitcoin will get to at least $120k next year. We will then see the usual crash as it probably goes down to $40k - $60k, but on its next cycle it could be near $500k and then $1m following that.
So yes, it's volatile short term, but the path to where it is going is very clear to me.
I know that not everyone on the Board believes that, and that's OK. But if you are in that camp have think about how the current system of raising debt ceilings and printing money thus creating an increase in prices but a desire to keep interest rates artificially low can continue?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 22, 2021, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 12:35:44 PM
FT saying people are using crypto as an inflation hedge but that it has never been done before. Crypto is very volatile
It's volatile short term, but it's only going one way, look at a moving average over any half decent period of time. So over any reasonable time frame it will go up. Obviously it won't keep making 100% gains on average per year forever as it becomes a bigger market cap and will ultimately be an asset that can be used to ensure that the purchasing power of your money isn't being inflated away.
Whether Bitcoin is the answer, and I think it might be, it is becoming very clear that the world and its economies can't keep going on forever as we have been. There are huge amounts of money being printed each year in order to keep everything afloat, the increase in the money supply is something like 15% per year.
But interest rates need to be kept close to zero because and increase in the rates will have a hugely negative impact on the economies given the huge size of debts (institutional and government) across the world.
The current official CPI rate is 5.3% (from memory). Even if you accept that is right, I know in our business inflation is running at much higher than 5.3%, it makes no sense to hold 10 year treasuries (or anything like that) at 1.3%.
There are trillions of dollars being "invested" into bonds and those types of assets that are guaranteed to lose real purchasing power. It's only a matter of time until they start moving across into Bitcoin, and not for the 100% gains, but only because it is a huge risk by keeping money invested at bond rates.
It could be said that inflation won't stay at 5%, but in recent months, I note that there is now a willingness to accept that these rates may no longer just be "transitory", and to be honest when the money supply is growing at more than 5% per year how do we expect interest rates to fall below 5%.
The 1.3% interest rates are manipulated to stay low, so it doesn't cause an interest on the debt problem.
Bitcoin, and Crypto more widely, now gives people a choice of whether to stay solely in the fiat system where you are mad to keep anything in cash or cash equivalents as its purchasing power is getting eroded so quickly and hence we are seeing large increases in hard assets such as property or to start dipping their toe into the Crypto space where rates aren't manipulated and are set by the market.
I don't just mean the price of Bitcoin is set by the market. I am referring to stablecoins (these are pegged to the USD) and you can get interest on them at 8% per annum. That seems crazy when we get almost zero interest on savings (or even negative interest rates in Euroland), but that's probably about right if you think inflation is running in excess of 5% and you can invest money into hard assets and make double digit percentage returns.
Yes, Bitcoin does get overheated and it crashes, but it's not a bubble as bubbles don't form multiple times in a generally predictable cyclical pattern. But I believe that it will be the answer as it becomes self fulfilling once the market cap continues to rise.
I think the rise of populism and doing whatever it takes to get elected means that its not in any politicans' interest to provide the medicine that would be needed to bring this back under control. So we take the easy path and print easy money. But wealthy people / investors know that they need to do something to ensure their purchasing power is not eroded.
Just this week we saw the first Bitcoin ETFs traded and the Houston Firefighters Pension putting a small amount of their assets in Bitcoin. We now have a country using Bitcoin for the famous coffee purchases and the Bitcoin network (via Lightning) is facilitating these small payments. The Bitcoin network can even be used to send a currency (GBP or USD) to another user at almost zero costs, so the users don't even have to be holding / using Bitcoin.
The remittance industry (ie Western Union etc) is totally screwed as improvements will be made as it is actively being used every day in El Salvador.
My personal view is that Bitcoin will get to at least $120k next year. We will then see the usual crash as it probably goes down to $40k - $60k, but on its next cycle it could be near $500k and then $1m following that.
So yes, it's volatile short term, but the path to where it is going is very clear to me.
I know that not everyone on the Board believes that, and that's OK. But if you are in that camp have think about how the current system of raising debt ceilings and printing money thus creating an increase in prices but a desire to keep interest rates artificially low can continue?
The higher the price the smaller the pool of eligible buyers.
The price is only good as long as you can sell the thing .
Same with Dublin house prices.
Quote from: seafoid on October 22, 2021, 04:34:36 PM
The higher the price the smaller the pool of eligible buyers.
The price is only good as long as you can sell the thing .
Same with Dublin house prices.
[/quote]
Fundamentally disagree with that comparison.
You can't buy 1/1000th of a house in Dublin, but you can do that with Bitcoin.
It's all about maintaining whatever purchasing power you have, and that doesn't matter if it's €100 or €1,000,000.
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
Don't have the answer but just opened an account on Coinbase myself at the weekend. Going to start dabbling with some extra cash I have
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
And after the news last week that a Pension fund was starting to invest as well as Bitcoin ETFs being offered, today we have news that Mastercard is now allowing their retailers to integrate crypto into their offerings (https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2021/october/mastercard-and-bakkt-partner-to-offer-innovative-crypto-and-loyalty-solutions/).
This is not a bubble. Yes, the human nature of greed and FOMO will still happen and, as I said on Friday, most likely next year the price will overshoot and we will see a sizeable correction. But the pattern of where the price is going is clear and the rate of acceptance and adoption is rapidly increasing.
If I didn't know better I would say that we are at the early stage of an S adoption curve for Bitcoin ;)
I used the Binance app, it allows me to deposit funds to it from my bank of Ireland account but I don't think it allows me to deposit from my Santander account.
By all accounts Crypto is on track for a major hike over the next few months.
With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin? Is its value based on a similarity to the value of Picasso doodle or a rare postage stamps, is the value notional?
Quote from: Main Street on October 25, 2021, 11:25:55 PM
With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin? Is its value based on a similarity to the value of Picasso doodle or a rare postage stamps, is the value notional?
Essentially yes. There will be x number of Bitcoin produced so it will become something that people will place value in having, but realistically and technically it has no worth other than what people buying it are giving.
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2021, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 25, 2021, 11:25:55 PM
With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin? Is its value based on a similarity to the value of Picasso doodle or a rare postage stamps, is the value notional?
Essentially yes. There will be x number of Bitcoin produced so it will become something that people will place value in having, but realistically and technically it has no worth other than what people buying it are giving.
Just like a bricks in a certain location. Availability is limited and it's value is based on how much people want it and the confidence that people will pay even more for it in future
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 26, 2021, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
Explain pls?
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 26, 2021, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet
I know it isnt the best app and don't think i've went over £100 on it.
Quote from: screenexile on October 25, 2021, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: Main Street on October 25, 2021, 11:25:55 PM
With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin? Is its value based on a similarity to the value of Picasso doodle or a rare postage stamps, is the value notional?
Essentially yes. There will be x number of Bitcoin produced so it will become something that people will place value in having, but realistically and technically it has no worth other than what people buying it are giving.
Crypto.is not a currency
It is more.like a commodity
https://www.ft.com/content/aee87c1d-b00f-4c22-ab97-97bb2b042342
Research has shown that an international currency must meet at least four basic conditions: it must have a long-term stable value; there must be sufficient volume to meet the needs of international trade in goods, services and financial assets; transaction costs must be low, with small differences between bid and ask prices, and high liquidity; and there must be a stable issuer who guarantees the currency.
Quote from: Main Street on October 25, 2021, 11:25:55 PM
With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin? Is its value based on a similarity to the value of Picasso doodle or a rare postage stamps, is the value notional?
It isn't backed by anything. It's just the same way that gold used to be money, gold wasn't backed up by anything because gold was the money. Over the last 50 years we have got used to fiat money being backed up, to some extent by gold, but the reason that it was backed up was so important was because it was, and is, so easy to print more money to create more "wealth". But all that is doing is diluting the wealth that already exists through inflation and devaluing the currency.
Why were people, and I guess you would also, be happy to know that they are using gold as "money"? It's because it is a hard asset where the supply is almost static as there has never been more than a 2% increase in the gold supply in any given year, ie it is the hardest asset that we had known previously.
But Bitcoin changes that, here we have an asset where the supply is fixed at 21m units, no more than that can ever be produced as the nodes will reject a block that proposes more than 21m units. It is this scarcity and finite resource qualities that gives Bitcoin its value, in just the same way as humans used gold for thousands of years.
But Bitcoin is better than gold as Bitcoin can be used as everyday money as there are 100m units ("sats") in a Bitcoin, so it is spendable for all transactions. Gold couldn't be spent physically and that is why paper money as we know it came about. There used to be just the amount of paper money that countries held in vaults, so this meant that people could accept paper money for every day transactions as they knew they could redeem the paper money for physical gold at any time.
But because it was so easy and tempting for the Central Banks to print more money when things got tight (such as fight in WW2) they did, and eventually gold couldn't be redeeemed by paper money as there simply wasn't enough gold to cover all the fiat money that had been printed.
So Bitcoin has a value in the same way that gold had a value, only iy does it better. It is a "hard" asset because there is finite supply and the rate of inflation in the supply of the asset is very low, thus you can save in that currency and know that the value of your money is going to be the same when you spend it as it was when you earned it.
That's the reason gold is valuable, not because it makes pretty jewellery.
Quote from: seafoid on October 26, 2021, 07:18:22 AM
Crypto.is not a currency
It is more.like a commodity
https://www.ft.com/content/aee87c1d-b00f-4c22-ab97-97bb2b042342
Research has shown that an international currency must meet at least four basic conditions: it must have a long-term stable value; there must be sufficient volume to meet the needs of international trade in goods, services and financial assets; transaction costs must be low, with small differences between bid and ask prices, and high liquidity; and there must be a stable issuer who guarantees the currency.
I've previously said that Bitcoin will become steadier in price as it gets to a critical mass. We are just at the really early stage where we have a new "thing" that has the potential to be the "money" for all of the world and what we are seeing is increasing market capitalisation being give to that asset class as it starts on its journey from being worthless in 2009 to ultimately having enormous value.
Imagine when gold started to be used instead of beads or stones (or whatever the previous form of money was). At that time beads could buy all the value of the assets in a country, then gold came along and this new thing, which used to be worthless, could now buy lots of assets in the country. The price appreciation of gold in those early days, when viewed through the lens of the old currency / money, is what we are going through now. It won't always be like this. I believe that, at some stage, Bitcoin will be like the Dollar in terms of it is just money. But we have to go from 0 to 100 to get there.
There is sufficient volume to buy everything. The 21m Bitcoin (with the 8 decimal places) will see that happen.
Transaction costs are low. You can send money / spend on the Lightning Network for fractions of a penny; this is good for buying things up to probably a few hundred USD now, and this network is growing by something like 4% per week.
And if you want to do a transaction on the base layer, the blockchain. That typically costs something like $10 and for that value you can transfer however many Bitcoin you want. So fees isn't even really a problem today.
Why do you need a stable issuer who guarantees the currency? The only reason that is needed is because today we can't trust Central Banks not to print more money than they have scarce resources to back it up. In Bitcoin this is not needed because the holders of it know for a fact that they are directly holding and spending the scarce, finite asset.
When gold was the money that was used, who guaranteed gold? No one, no guarantee was needed.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:37:21 PM
And after the news last week that a Pension fund was starting to invest as well as Bitcoin ETFs being offered, today we have news that Mastercard is now allowing their retailers to integrate crypto into their offerings (https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2021/october/mastercard-and-bakkt-partner-to-offer-innovative-crypto-and-loyalty-solutions/).
This is not a bubble. Yes, the human nature of greed and FOMO will still happen and, as I said on Friday, most likely next year the price will overshoot and we will see a sizeable correction. But the pattern of where the price is going is clear and the rate of acceptance and adoption is rapidly increasing.
If I didn't know better I would say that we are at the early stage of an S adoption curve for Bitcoin ;)
Just the two pieces of news so far today:
1 - Sequoia Capital (who control companies valued at $3.3 trillion) have changed their structure which, among other things, allows them to "further increase our investments in emerging asset classes such as cryptocurrencies and seed investing programs."
2 - U.S. Banking regulators looking into how banks can custody Bitcoin, use it for collateral and balance sheet holdings.
Good explanation Joe but if you could dig hundreds of metals out of the ground exactly the same as gold it mightn't be so precious.
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 26, 2021, 08:48:44 PM
Good explanation Joe but if you could dig hundreds of metals out of the ground exactly the same as gold it mightn't be so precious.
100%. Hence it's scarcity.
Are you are saying that with the implication that there can be other Cryptos like Ethereum etc, so Bitcoin shouldn't be treated like gold?
None of the other crypto assets have a fixed, finite supply and are truly decentralised. Most other "projects" have a development team and are led by a person who can influence the development / changes made. That doesn't apply to Bitcoin.
I would say that the other Crypto assets are like silver to gold. They are a similar asset class, but they are simply different things.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 26, 2021, 07:22:04 AM
Quote from: Main Street on October 25, 2021, 11:25:55 PM
With the euro, its transactional value is backed by the ECB reserves and the wealth resources of the euro zone.
Who or what backs the value of the bitcoin? Is its value based on a similarity to the value of Picasso doodle or a rare postage stamps, is the value notional?
It isn't backed by anything. It's just the same way that gold used to be money, gold wasn't backed up by anything because gold was the money. Over the last 50 years we have got used to fiat money being backed up, to some extent by gold, but the reason that it was backed up was so important was because it was, and is, so easy to print more money to create more "wealth". But all that is doing is diluting the wealth that already exists through inflation and devaluing the currency.
Why were people, and I guess you would also, be happy to know that they are using gold as "money"? It's because it is a hard asset where the supply is almost static as there has never been more than a 2% increase in the gold supply in any given year, ie it is the hardest asset that we had known previously.
But Bitcoin changes that, here we have an asset where the supply is fixed at 21m units, no more than that can ever be produced as the nodes will reject a block that proposes more than 21m units. It is this scarcity and finite resource qualities that gives Bitcoin its value, in just the same way as humans used gold for thousands of years.
But Bitcoin is better than gold as Bitcoin can be used as everyday money as there are 100m units ("sats") in a Bitcoin, so it is spendable for all transactions. Gold couldn't be spent physically and that is why paper money as we know it came about. There used to be just the amount of paper money that countries held in vaults, so this meant that people could accept paper money for every day transactions as they knew they could redeem the paper money for physical gold at any time.
But because it was so easy and tempting for the Central Banks to print more money when things got tight (such as fight in WW2) they did, and eventually gold couldn't be redeeemed by paper money as there simply wasn't enough gold to cover all the fiat money that had been printed.
So Bitcoin has a value in the same way that gold had a value, only iy does it better. It is a "hard" asset because there is finite supply and the rate of inflation in the supply of the asset is very low, thus you can save in that currency and know that the value of your money is going to be the same when you spend it as it was when you earned it.
That's the reason gold is valuable, not because it makes pretty jewellery.
Gold has a value that has endured since the beginning of time as a precious metal that has unique qualities which are cherished, practical and in high demand for use in manufacturing. It has not been used as the reserve standard since its limitations for such were badly exposed in the 1930s.
The purpose of the ECB increasing the supply of money in the euro zone was not to create more wealth.
ECB oversaw the plentiful supply of money to citizens and business in economic dire straights during the pandemic, possibly even prevented a social and political upheaval of the brown shirted thuggish ilk that grew in the 1930s
The ECB has huge reserves, the EU has massive trading and asset wealth. The value of the Euro is based on that. For the past 7 or so years the ECB has increased the flow of money to member states, that undoubtedly has been a positive and has not been a destructive corrosive inflationary factor.
In a crisis, the actions that a responsible Central Bank takes is crucial to the fate of a nation, eg. the very effective actions taken by Iceland's CB post 2008 got their country up from its knees in no time, years before the ECB took their belated effective action.
There are obvious pluses to BitCoin, my question centers around the recent steep increase in the trading value of a bitcoin. It's a limited digital currency whose trading value has inflated with the speed of a bull on turbocharge. The thought does arise, what goes up comes crashing back down. Not unlike gold there are productions costs, can those costs be increasing? Are investors hoarding bitcoin, leading to a scarcity which inflates the value? Or what part does investor mania play?
Quote from: Main Street on October 27, 2021, 02:16:40 PM
Not unlike gold there are productions costs, can those costs be increasing? Are investors hoarding bitcoin, leading to a scarcity which inflates the value? Or what part does investor mania play?
I've been very clear Main Street. My view is that the value is increasing as more and more people are realising that Bitcoin has a chance at being the next base money layer in the same way that it used to be rai stones, then beads, then silver and then gold. I guarantee that at every stage of those evolutions there were people saying "this new asset" is a fad because it is not worth anything. If that is the case 1 Bitcoin will be valued at some crazy USD denominated value in the future because there may be a chance all the value of the world will be able to be bought with 21 million BTC at some point.
Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe you're right. I guess we'll find out in time and each person will arrive at their own conclusion around what Bitcoin is and what the future of it could look like.
And I also said in one of my previous comments that the BTC price will likely overshoot next year what it's sustainable 2022 value should be due to mania, greed, FOMO and human emotions. After that the price will likely come down again, probably to around today's current prices before it begins its path ever higher.
So yes, it is volatile, but I'm OK with that as I am fairly confident that the BTC I have bought this year will be worth much more in USD / GBP / EUR terms in 5 or 6 years than it is today.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
Woudl you recommend Kraken Joe? I used eToro sporadically for some share trading (and I woudl not recommend it!) but I have been told its not great for Crypto so I am going to open up a "crypto only" account and stick some money in I can afford to lose.
Quote from: TabClear on October 27, 2021, 06:51:31 PM
Woudl you recommend Kraken Joe? I used eToro sporadically for some share trading (and I woudl not recommend it!) but I have been told its not great for Crypto so I am going to open up a "crypto only" account and stick some money in I can afford to lose.
Yes, I would. But use Kraken Pro as the fees are less.
So sign up with Kraken and then open a Kraken Pro window.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 27, 2021, 06:55:06 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on October 26, 2021, 08:48:44 PM
Good explanation Joe but if you could dig hundreds of metals out of the ground exactly the same as gold it mightn't be so precious.
100%. Hence it's scarcity.
Are you are saying that with the implication that there can be other Cryptos like Ethereum etc, so Bitcoin shouldn't be treated like gold?
None of the other crypto assets have a fixed, finite supply and are truly decentralised. Most other "projects" have a development team and are led by a person who can influence the development / changes made. That doesn't apply to Bitcoin.
I would say that the other Crypto assets are like silver to gold. They are a similar asset class, but they are simply different things.
I'm saying gold is gold. Bitcoin is a technology. Technologies can become thee thing, can be re-created, can be improved or can become obsolete.
Don't get me wrong, I wish I had bought some last year, had the finger on the trigger time of big drop, but for other reasons didn't get to pull. At these prices I'd be wary. As you say I suspect there's no immediate risk of a crash but I think eventually a lot of people will lose big.
Huge money had been invested into it and there's huge energy costs associated with mining it so in that respect the price is reflected for now but there's a lot of very very old money hasn't bought in and maybe never will. It's a very long way off being the base currency, you're talking one hell of a wealth re-adjustment there for the blue bloods late to the party and the shoe shine boys who got in early. I cannot see how that works especially when you can just create a new technology that does the job better.
fiat currency is dead and along with them the banks
defi will be the way we transact going forward
unless of course you like paying massive fees and interest rates, feel free to continue ;)
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 26, 2021, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet
I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day
Quote from: Hound on October 31, 2021, 07:39:05 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 26, 2021, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet
I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day
Am i right saying you cannot send your btc to anyone or to a waller which is a major downside
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2021, 07:56:42 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 31, 2021, 07:39:05 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 26, 2021, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet
I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day
Am i right saying you cannot send your btc to anyone or to a waller which is a major downside
Don't think that's right itchy.
I haven't done it, but I've just checked and it does allow me to send crypto to other Revolut contacts. No commission.
I've just gone through the process now, other than hitting the final confirm button.
Quote from: Hound on October 31, 2021, 08:02:05 AM
Quote from: Itchy on October 31, 2021, 07:56:42 AM
Quote from: Hound on October 31, 2021, 07:39:05 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on October 26, 2021, 01:01:15 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on October 25, 2021, 04:17:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on October 25, 2021, 04:07:09 PM
Whats the best app for buying crypto? Has anyone ever actually sold any and withdrawn the money?
I use Kraken now. I used to use Binance, but their banking channels have been shut down.
I'm in the North and it's actually difficult enough to get money into crypto nowadays as banks make it so difficult to send money to the Exchanges. They cite "customer safety" as the reason and payments continually get put on hold.
The UK government has definitely stigmatised buying crypto, but at the same time they want Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit on the holding of your assets :D
I have never withdrawn any money back out of the exchanges.
I've bought a few quids worth through revolut, nothing worth talking about really but any return is better than the money lying there. Revolut maybe an option for you to buy through if your bank is being awkward?
On revolut you're not buying crypto, you are only buying the price of it
any serious purchase should be done on an exchange and transferred to a hard wallet
I've bought and sold Crypto on Revoult without any problem.
1.5% commission on purchases and sales. I sold 50k worth and got the money out easily. Any single buy or sale cannot exceed about eur15k, but you can do multiple transactions on the same day
Am i right saying you cannot send your btc to anyone or to a waller which is a major downside
Don't think that's right itchy.
I haven't done it, but I've just checked and it does allow me to send crypto to other Revolut contacts. No commission.
I've just gone through the process now, other than hitting the final confirm button.
it's not actual crypto you are sending though, it's just the price of it that you buy on revolut
to buy bitcoin on the blockchain you have to use an exchange like coinbase, binance, kraken etc
if some lad in china for example wanted paid in actual bitcoin for something, you can't send it from revolut because you don't have any bitcoin on the ledger
I recommend using Revolut only as an intermediary between your bank account and a proper centralised exchange
I have tried and can recommend; Binance, Coinbase, Kraken, Kucoin, Swissborg, Crypto.com
All of them have adv/disadv. For most people, Binance should suffice, however they have had some regulatory trouble in recent months.
Crypto is a much deeper field than is appreciated in the mainstream (bitcoin and dogcoins) and i highly recommend that people engage with it with trivial sums if they have an interest in it as a premise. There is a sea of utility and innovation out there. But never ever put in more than you can afford to lose
You can withdraw £1,000 in Crypto to put in any wallet you own if you have a Revolut Metal account (£12.99 pm).
Is etoro good for cryptos?
Anyone get burned on the squidgame crypto??
Quote from: screenexile on November 02, 2021, 11:35:09 PM
Anyone get burned on the squidgame crypto??
Who would have thought it? A crypto currency that was just a con. As opposed to all the legitimate crypto currencies that are just a con.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 04, 2021, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 02, 2021, 11:35:09 PM
Anyone get burned on the squidgame crypto??
Who would have thought it? A crypto currency that was just a con. As opposed to all the legitimate crypto currencies that are just a con.
Bookmarked for 2030.
Quote from: Capt Pat on November 04, 2021, 09:13:57 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 02, 2021, 11:35:09 PM
Anyone get burned on the squidgame crypto??
Who would have thought it? A crypto currency that was just a con. As opposed to all the legitimate crypto currencies that are just a con.
afraid of change much??? ;)
Quote from: Frank_The_Tank on November 28, 2017, 12:26:24 PM
Invested about £800 in BTC and £800 in ETH back in the summer. BTC was around £3,100 each when invested - my investment got me 0.27 = worth just over £2K at the minute. Just pity didn't invest last year when they were £500 each or a few years ago when I had considered it and they were £80 each and got talked out of it by another guy I worked with :(
this must be going pretty well provided he was a hodler 8)
Just ran across this on The Motley Fool via yahoo
Just Insane
Here's how much $100 invested in Shiba Inu on its debut day is worth now
Meme coin Shiba Inu first hit select cryptocurrency exchanges for trading on Aug. 1, 2020, with a first-day print of $0.00000000051 per token. At the time of this writing, late in the evening of Oct. 31, SHIB tokens were being purchased at $0.00007163. It might be difficult to do the math with all of these zeroes, but this 15-month increase since its debut equates to 14,044,998%. For comparison, the S&P 500 is up about 41% over the same period.
To put this mammoth increase into perspective, imagine you had the wherewithal, stomach, and luck to invest $100 into SHIB on Aug. 1, 2020, at the above-stated price and held for the past 15 months. Your $100 investment would now be worth (drum roll)...$14,045,098. Yes, over $14 million! This would firmly place you in the top 1% of the wealthiest American households, which has a cutoff of around $11 million.
How exactly does a $100 investment turn into a $14 million moonshot in 15 months? Let's take a closer look.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/11/04/invested-100-in-shiba-inu-15-months-how-much-now/?source=eptyholnk0000202&utm_source=yahoo-host&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article
Quote from: DrinkingHarp on November 05, 2021, 02:52:36 AM
Just ran across this on The Motley Fool via yahoo
Just Insane
Here's how much $100 invested in Shiba Inu on its debut day is worth now
Meme coin Shiba Inu first hit select cryptocurrency exchanges for trading on Aug. 1, 2020, with a first-day print of $0.00000000051 per token. At the time of this writing, late in the evening of Oct. 31, SHIB tokens were being purchased at $0.00007163. It might be difficult to do the math with all of these zeroes, but this 15-month increase since its debut equates to 14,044,998%. For comparison, the S&P 500 is up about 41% over the same period.
To put this mammoth increase into perspective, imagine you had the wherewithal, stomach, and luck to invest $100 into SHIB on Aug. 1, 2020, at the above-stated price and held for the past 15 months. Your $100 investment would now be worth (drum roll)...$14,045,098. Yes, over $14 million! This would firmly place you in the top 1% of the wealthiest American households, which has a cutoff of around $11 million.
How exactly does a $100 investment turn into a $14 million moonshot in 15 months? Let's take a closer look.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/11/04/invested-100-in-shiba-inu-15-months-how-much-now/?source=eptyholnk0000202&utm_source=yahoo-host&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=article
How do you know which new cryptos are supported by block chain?
Quote from: screenexile on November 02, 2021, 11:35:09 PM
Anyone get burned on the squidgame crypto??
think it all happened quite quick on Monday and it dropped like a stone from $2800 to zero in about 5 minutes with investors unable to sell.
was reading about some guy that bought 5000 of them when it was at a dollar and obviously lost it all.
So other than bitcoin what else are you guys buying?
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 05, 2021, 11:23:32 AM
So other than bitcoin what else are you guys buying?
Ether and XRP both decent enough. Threw a fiver into that shiba the other day but probably too late now for it to go anywhere.
£2000 work bonus... Do I
A) Put it all on BTC via Coinbase/Binance
B) Put it all on S&P 500 via eToro etc?
Quote from: 5times5times on November 05, 2021, 12:49:32 PM
£2000 work bonus... Do I
A) Put it all on BTC via Coinbase/Binance
B) Put it all on S&P 500 via eToro etc?
Maybe split it and put £1000 on BTC and the other £1000 on a few altcoins.
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 05, 2021, 11:23:32 AM
So other than bitcoin what else are you guys buying?
Ethereum, Polkadot, Cardano, Matic
Returns are good enough by staying with main ones. No need to go small cap where the risk is more
As a matter of interest roughly how much are you folk investing in this. A couple of thousand or tens of thousands.
Quote from: clarshack on November 05, 2021, 01:03:16 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on November 05, 2021, 12:49:32 PM
£2000 work bonus... Do I
A) Put it all on BTC via Coinbase/Binance
B) Put it all on S&P 500 via eToro etc?
Maybe split it and put £1000 on BTC and the other £1000 on a few altcoins.
if you don't know what you're doing, putting it in your pension would be the best long term play
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 07, 2021, 10:06:56 AM
As a matter of interest roughly how much are you folk investing in this. A couple of thousand or tens of thousands.
100/mth. Its money that if it all goes wrong won't be the end of the world. Wouldn't have the balls to be ploughing big money in watching it go up and down like a yo-yo I have been at it for a year. At the moment I would be a few hundred up so hardly life changing sums. I was probably a Yr too late to be honest but you never know
If you have Dot, Ada, Eth etc, all of these can be used to stake for a return.
For those with polkadot, parachain slot auction crowdloans are now live. You can stake your Dot and acquire tokens for new projects. These can be accessed on Binance, Kraken or directly on the polkadot.js webwallet extension. the latter would not be recommended if you could not be arsed with a learning curve - binance would be the best option. Away from using Binance, Acala would be recommended as you get a substitute for locking your dot away for the 2 year lease period.
ADA can be transferred to the Yoroi wallet which can be downloaded from play store. Fairly easy to delegate your ada to a stakepool for 5pc return, or with a bit more research to new project stakepools for return of tokens as part of launches. Sundaeswap is one such project to become available to stake to in the coming weeks as Cardano comes online.
Ethereum is harder to work with given sometimes ridiculous network costs (gas fees) and badly needs the long heralded upgrade to Eth 2.0 to stop trickle to the 'competitors'. However it is becoming close to deflationary and liable to be a 'safe' (relatively speaking for crypto) bet for holding or increasing value over the coming months. Matic and others function to reduce the cost of working with Eth but again suffer from high initial on/off ramp costs due to the underlying cost of eth.
All of the above requires a learning curve, Cardano is prob the easiest/cheapest to work with at the present time.
Bitcoin on the way down again?
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 04:55:44 PM
Bitcoin on the way down again?
Current Price $63,500
Last weeks price $60,200
Price 1 month ago $57,000
Price 1 year ago $15,000
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 04:55:44 PM
Bitcoin on the way down again?
There'll be plenty downs along the way. It seems to happen when there is a lot of leverage in the market and a small drop then forces liquidations of longs, which then drives the price further down.
There's no need to dice with leverage in my view, and then these dips don't hurt you, and perhaps may even present a further buying opportunity.
Quote from: toby47 on November 13, 2021, 10:44:38 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 12, 2021, 04:55:44 PM
Bitcoin on the way down again?
Current Price $63,500
Last weeks price $60,200
Price 1 month ago $57,000
Price 1 year ago $15,000
Long term the only way is up. When I posted that it had went from £50k to around £46k in a couple of days.
A few worried boys about the last couple of days
Quote from: bennydorano on November 19, 2021, 09:40:57 AM
A few worried boys about the last couple of days
Dropping rightly. Might see if it drops a bit more and bang a few quid into it then.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 19, 2021, 09:40:57 AM
A few worried boys about the last couple of days
I'd say there is.
I took out my initial investment when prices were good so if it all goes to zero then I won't have lost anything with what I have left.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 19, 2021, 09:40:57 AM
A few worried boys about the last couple of days
Honestly, not me. It always has drops of 20% - 30% even when it is on its way to setting record high. It's just what it does.
The mindset is to be buying a little each week, that way a drop doesn't get into your head as it allows you to buy cheaper than you were buying at last week.
That's what I do. It's great for the emotional aspects of it.
I got into this at the worst possible time; start of April this year and my first purchases were at $58k. The reality is that it takes booms to get normal people interested in the space. I took time over the summer to understand it and I have belief in it. So all summer I bought a little every single week, with my lowest buy being on 19th July at $30,686. Doing this helped me reduce my average cost with the result that when it came back up even to near $50k I was in profit.
My belief is that we'll go well in excess of $100k by the middle of next year, and yes, we will have the odd 30% drop on the path of getting there. It just won't go straight up week after week, even though that would be easier to see!!
I'm certainly no expert but i thought there 2 big pieces of news this week regarding Crypto that influencedthe drop, Tax implications in the USA & Russia taking a slice in fee transactions, if that's replicated by every major Government then it surely won't be smooth sailing for the casual speculator.
I thought Hilary Clinton's thoughts on it last night were very significant.
She said it has the potential to undermine currencies (inc the role of the USD as the reserve currency of the world) and destablise nations.
Ponzi schemes don't have the potential to undermine the USD as the reserve currency of the world.
When you have people like Clinton telling world leaders to be aware of this it shows you what the potential is for this.
I always like to think of myself as tech savvy but obtaining and paying for something using bitcoin eludes me and I've looked into it several times ... I need to pay 100/200 quid semi regularly. Any help gratefully received
Quote from: Boycey on November 27, 2021, 09:26:49 AM
I always like to think of myself as tech savvy but obtaining and paying for something using bitcoin eludes me and I've looked into it several times ... I need to pay 100/200 quid semi regularly. Any help gratefully received
Boycey, drop me a PM.
Can either pay onchain, and the fees are very low at the minute or can pay on the Ligntning network if the payee will accept it. Lightning payment is free (or at least costs less than 1c).
Still falling....
A bad 48 hrs but sure that's the way it goes. Strap yourself in and enjoy the ride. The secret is not to put money in that you actually need!!
https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/bitmart-hack-crypto-platform-ethereum-binance (https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/bitmart-hack-crypto-platform-ethereum-binance)
Ouch. Be careful folks, spread your investment over a number of platforms.
Bitcoin still fallling.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 14, 2021, 10:33:04 AM
Bitcoin still fallling.
What does "still" mean here? Is it not up more than 150% this year? I don't own any Bitcoin, but I don't think that even its most fervent supports claim that it goes up every single day.
Up $250 from 10mins ago. Up 17% in the last 6 months.
Longer term the bigger danger to Crypto (punters) has to be strangulation by regulation, just seems to one Government after another alluding to it.
Quote from: bennydorano on December 14, 2021, 04:29:26 PM
Longer term the bigger danger to Crypto (punters) has to be strangulation by regulation, just seems to one Government after another alluding to it.
What's there to fear from regulation? Regulation will make it more establishment friendly.
The US have showed they have no appetite (even if it was possible) to ban Bitcoin. And obviously they lead the western world.
I think the govts are scared of it because they know what impact it will have on the Central Bank's ability to steer / manipulate the economy to give the results they desire.
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Buying anything with them results in a CGT gain (if the price increased since you bought)
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 15, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Buying anything with them results in a CGT gain (if the price increased since you bought)
some people don't realise that every crypto trade is taxable as they think that crypto is only taxable if they cashout to their bank account, but if you trade ETH into BTC for e.g. then that is a taxable event also. CGT tax-free allowance is £12,300.
https://koinly.io/ is very good for working out what you owe on taxes.
Quote from: clarshack on December 15, 2021, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 15, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Buying anything with them results in a CGT gain (if the price increased since you bought)
some people don't realise that every crypto trade is taxable as they think that crypto is only taxable if they cashout to their bank account, but if you trade ETH into BTC for e.g. then that is a taxable event also. CGT tax-free allowance is £12,300.
https://koinly.io/ is very good for working out what you owe on taxes.
is this britain?
some countries are tax free, that's where the serious players are
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 15, 2021, 03:29:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on December 15, 2021, 02:58:11 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 15, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Buying anything with them results in a CGT gain (if the price increased since you bought)
some people don't realise that every crypto trade is taxable as they think that crypto is only taxable if they cashout to their bank account, but if you trade ETH into BTC for e.g. then that is a taxable event also. CGT tax-free allowance is £12,300.
https://koinly.io/ is very good for working out what you owe on taxes.
is this britain?
some countries are tax free, that's where the serious players are
CGT also applies to crytpo in ROI but tax free allowance is much less, < 2k.
How would Paschal Donohoe find out that I've made a profit on bitcoin?
Sorry if that's a silly question.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 15, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Buying anything with them results in a CGT gain (if the price increased since you bought)
:o :o :o :o :o
Not sure what the poster means here exactly but to me this comment is more than a little misleading
The minute you liquidise Crypto into cash (or any other asset cars houses, stock & shares, food phone etc) you are liable for capital gains.
If you bought BITCOIN low and sell high good luck to you but you are liable for the gains you have made
BITCOIN IS NOT CASH!
Don't think of it as such, revenue services around the world have struggled to keep abreast of the exchanges but they will catch up with it sooner rather than later, Ignorance holds no sway...... so know the facts!
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
How would Paschal Donohoe find out that I've made a profit on bitcoin?
Sorry if that's a silly question.
How would he find out if you made a few quid on a rented property? How would he find out if you had a €50k capital gain on a second home?
If you had a tax inspection presumably.
Quote from: APM on December 15, 2021, 06:15:50 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
How would Paschal Donohoe find out that I've made a profit on bitcoin?
Sorry if that's a silly question.
How would he find out if you made a few quid on a rented property? How would he find out if you had a €50k capital gain on a second home?
If you had a tax inspection presumably.
Which would require the taxman to get access to the exchange's trade history.
Otherwise all they see is what you paid into the exchange and what you got out - and have no knowledge of what happened in between.
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
How would Paschal Donohoe find out that I've made a profit on bitcoin?
Sorry if that's a silly question.
I got a letter from HMRC today saying they know I have been buying crypto and to declare it in self assessment if my profit is over 12k (spoiler: it isn't). Goes to show you they aren't so slow.
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
How would Paschal Donohoe find out that I've made a profit on bitcoin?
Sorry if that's a silly question.
Presumably you would have had to supply the crypto platform that you use with your tax number to begin with. I would imagine those crypto platforms would be under a lot of scrutiny from tax authorities since some of the gains and resultant tax liabilities could be lucrative for them.
Quote from: RedHand88 on December 15, 2021, 08:38:34 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 05:23:12 PM
How would Paschal Donohoe find out that I've made a profit on bitcoin?
Sorry if that's a silly question.
I got a letter from HMRC today saying they know I have been buying crypto and to declare it in self assessment if my profit is over 12k (spoiler: it isn't). Goes to show you they aren't so slow.
and they have no visibility of what your profit might be until you bring it back into FIAT.
can the taxman inspect cold wallets ;D
which is probably where you should be keeping it if you have any sense
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 16, 2021, 12:24:54 AM
can the taxman inspect cold wallets ;D
which is probably where you should be keeping it if you have any sense
Cold wallets only serve to hold your private keys as such, although more secure, you are no less visible as a holder. KYC from your centralised exchange can be used to track you at the fiat on-ramp stage onwards, and on-chain analysis is pretty routine at this stage to track holders. One of the arguments for bitcoin is its transparency of ledger. There are ways to 'wash' crypto out there but a simple fiat to btc to fiat path can be tracked regardless of wallet type. Btc bought p2p or with a proxy buyer, or privacy coins such as monero are the route some may turn to for evasion
Quote from: Methuselah on December 16, 2021, 08:06:39 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on December 16, 2021, 12:24:54 AM
can the taxman inspect cold wallets ;D
which is probably where you should be keeping it if you have any sense
Cold wallets only serve to hold your private keys as such, although more secure, you are no less visible as a holder. KYC from your centralised exchange can be used to track you at the fiat on-ramp stage onwards, and on-chain analysis is pretty routine at this stage to track holders. One of the arguments for bitcoin is its transparency of ledger. There are ways to 'wash' crypto out there but a simple fiat to btc to fiat path can be tracked regardless of wallet type. Btc bought p2p or with a proxy buyer, or privacy coins such as monero are the route some may turn to for evasion
That's an important point. Some of the questions / comments here are effectively about tax evasion, dressed up as a harmless game of cat and mouse.
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 15, 2021, 06:15:41 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 15, 2021, 12:26:53 PM
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on December 15, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
Do people who dabble in Bitcoin ever use them to buy anything? Or do they just accumulate them to speculate on the price?
Buying anything with them results in a CGT gain (if the price increased since you bought)
:o :o :o :o :o
Not sure what the poster means here exactly but to me this comment is more than a little misleading
The minute you liquidise Crypto into cash (or any other asset cars houses, stock & shares, food phone etc) you are liable for capital gains.
If you bought BITCOIN low and sell high good luck to you but you are liable for the gains you have made
BITCOIN IS NOT CASH!
Don't think of it as such, revenue services around the world have struggled to keep abreast of the exchanges but they will catch up with it sooner rather than later, Ignorance holds no sway...... so know the facts!
Just to be clear any trade will trigger CGT, not just crypto to fiat currency.
Anyone know anything about Nutmeg?
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 04, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Anyone know anything about Nutmeg?
Add a dash to your mash, you'll never go back.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 04, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Anyone know anything about Nutmeg?
I set up a Lifetime ISA with them last year they seem to be grand although I don't follow it too closely.
Quote from: tiempo on January 04, 2022, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 04, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Anyone know anything about Nutmeg?
Add a dash to your mash, you'll never go back.
Put it in your porridge. Your Mrs will thank me.
Quote from: LeoMc on January 04, 2022, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 04, 2022, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 04, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Anyone know anything about Nutmeg?
Add a dash to your mash, you'll never go back.
Put it in your porridge. Your Mrs will thank me.
Does it make you chase after some young thing and leave the Mrs alone?
Quote from: Windmill abu on January 04, 2022, 10:50:38 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 04, 2022, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: tiempo on January 04, 2022, 02:22:15 PM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 04, 2022, 02:05:46 PM
Anyone know anything about Nutmeg?
Add a dash to your mash, you'll never go back.
Put it in your porridge. Your Mrs will thank me.
Does it make you chase after some young thing and leave the Mrs alone?
Naw, it cures wind.
https://twitter.com/davetroy/status/1478017698676228099?s=21
Interesting read
Bad 24hrs for crypto
Bound to bounceback soon....
Buy the dip . . .
Buy the dip is being repeated a bit too often these days.
Interesting that the latest dip can partially be blamed on the unrest in Kazakhstan, 18% of all Bitcoin mining happens there apparently.
https://www.ft.com/content/8a29b412-348d-4f73-8af4-1f38e69f28cf
A top EU financial regulator has renewed calls for a bloc-wide "ban" on the main form of bitcoin mining and sounded the alarm over the rising proportion of renewable energy devoted to crypto mining.
Erik Thedéen, vice-chair of the European Securities and Markets Authority, told the Financial Times that bitcoin mining had become a "national issue" for his native country Sweden and warned that cryptocurrencies posed a risk to meeting climate change goals in the Paris agreement.
Quote from: LeoMc on January 19, 2022, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2022, 09:08:08 AM
Buy the dip . . .
Is it time to buy yet?
Lowest price was on 7th Jan... you should have paid attention to the post above!!!
Quote from: screenexile on January 19, 2022, 12:46:13 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on January 19, 2022, 12:32:51 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 06, 2022, 09:08:08 AM
Buy the dip . . .
Is it time to buy yet?
Lowest price was on 7th Jan... you should have paid attention to the post above!!!
anyone with any sense will scale in and scale out
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJoSg-rXsAg2YPt?format=jpg&name=medium)
#believe
What's the reason for the crash?? I've read a few theories on it one saying that Crypto is like any other stock now and when the market outlook is pessimistic it's value will fall and others have said the Oligarch's are selling their Crypto before the UN sanction the bejaysus out of them.
I'm sure the heavily invested will say "we're still up on initial investment" but at the same time there were people swearing blind BTC price would be at €100k by the end of last year.
I'm not invested at all I just find the whole thing fascinating and I really don't think Crypto will become the new currency as may believe but it's interesting to see what happens with it.
https://www.ft.com/content/e24c1a93-6a42-4c18-a62f-a8b36c20de9a
The price of bitcoin slid another 5 per cent, with the cryptocurrency now having halved in value during the past two and a half months.
Is the environmental impact a factor?
New NYC mayor is converting his first few pay cheques into crypto as part of a plan to attract cryptocurrency business to the city.
He may have lost over a grand from the first one due to the bad timing.
https://nypost.com/2022/01/24/nyc-mayor-adams-may-have-lost-more-than-1k-converting-his-pay-to-crypto/ (https://nypost.com/2022/01/24/nyc-mayor-adams-may-have-lost-more-than-1k-converting-his-pay-to-crypto/)
Soon be time to buy?
Article in today's UK Times from Simon Nixon Billionaire founder of moneysupermarket.com (& venture capitalist crypto speculator) it's behind a paywall unfortunately. I read the article in the paper itself, the headline says it all anyway -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hopes-of-bitcoin-becoming-credible-have-slumped-along-with-its-price-2prgcvh0l
As a matter of interest who is making the money here?
Is it the bitcoin miners or are there middleman taking a cut on transactions?
Obviously there are people throwing real money into the buying platforms so I wonder where it is going.
Hope nobody was using Wormhole!!
Tried to read through the below article but it turned into Greek halfway down the page. . .
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/02/320-million-stolen-from-wormhole-bridge-linking-solana-and-ethereum.html
Quote from: LeoMc on February 03, 2022, 03:09:14 PM
As a matter of interest who is making the money here?
Is it the bitcoin miners or are there middleman taking a cut on transactions?
Obviously there are people throwing real money into the buying platforms so I wonder where it is going.
Lots of money being made by the middlemen anyway e.g. Opensea - NFT marketplace , Coinbase - Cryptocurrency exchange , Gemini - Crypto and NFT exchange founded by the Winklevosses: all 3 companies are worth around $10 billion.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2022, 02:44:16 PM
Article in today's UK Times from Simon Nixon Billionaire founder of moneysupermarket.com (& venture capitalist crypto speculator) it's behind a paywall unfortunately. I read the article in the paper itself, the headline says it all anyway -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hopes-of-bitcoin-becoming-credible-have-slumped-along-with-its-price-2prgcvh0l
It's pretty clear that "risk on" assets have taken a tanking the last couple of months; that includes stocks as well as Bitcoin. Investors (generally) are seeking the still perceived safe haven of the USD.
The markets move in cycles Benny; so I wouldn't get crowing too much yet about Bitcoin's demise
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 03, 2022, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2022, 02:44:16 PM
Article in today's UK Times from Simon Nixon Billionaire founder of moneysupermarket.com (& venture capitalist crypto speculator) it's behind a paywall unfortunately. I read the article in the paper itself, the headline says it all anyway -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hopes-of-bitcoin-becoming-credible-have-slumped-along-with-its-price-2prgcvh0l
It's pretty clear that "risk on" assets have taken a tanking the last couple of months; that includes stocks as well as Bitcoin. Investors (generally) are seeking the still perceived safe haven of the USD.
The markets move in cycles Benny; so I wouldn't get crowing too much yet about Bitcoin's demise
Crowing?? I'm invested. You only want to read the good news stories?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSV1ZWtXoAInoQU?format=jpg&name=small)
Stay safe out there guys!!
Quote from: screenexile on May 10, 2022, 02:31:00 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSV1ZWtXoAInoQU?format=jpg&name=small)
Stay safe out there guys!!
Don't f**king go there.
;D
Strap in and enjoy the rollercoaster
This is exactly why you should be only throwing money that you can afford to lose into this and treat any gains as a nice bonus
For the record after some nice gains about 18 mths ago, Im now down about 30% :o
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 10, 2022, 04:19:02 PM
For the record after some nice gains about 18 mths ago, Im now down about 30% :o
did you not cash out when you were up?
Quote from: clarshack on May 10, 2022, 06:11:23 PM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on May 10, 2022, 04:19:02 PM
For the record after some nice gains about 18 mths ago, Im now down about 30% :o
did you not cash out when you were up?
It's knowing when to cash out ;D
Quote from: bennydorano on February 04, 2022, 11:58:46 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on February 03, 2022, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 03, 2022, 02:44:16 PM
Article in today's UK Times from Simon Nixon Billionaire founder of moneysupermarket.com (& venture capitalist crypto speculator) it's behind a paywall unfortunately. I read the article in the paper itself, the headline says it all anyway -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hopes-of-bitcoin-becoming-credible-have-slumped-along-with-its-price-2prgcvh0l
It's pretty clear that "risk on" assets have taken a tanking the last couple of months; that includes stocks as well as Bitcoin. Investors (generally) are seeking the still perceived safe haven of the USD.
The markets move in cycles Benny; so I wouldn't get crowing too much yet about Bitcoin's demise
Crowing?? I'm invested. You only want to read the good news stories?
I'd be interested to read the article, Simon was once a crypto currency fanboy.
Forbes Advisor article on Bitcoin
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/cryptocurrency/why-is-bitcoins-price-falling/ (https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/cryptocurrency/why-is-bitcoins-price-falling/)
Bitcoin and others' trading value was supposed to be independent of other happenings that affected the trading world, however this hasn't been the case since last autumn. And now perceived to be a risky asset in current risky times. It's not regarded as a currency to hedge your bet in, the proverbial safe haven.
It's a speculative currency, popular when going up in value and less so (understatement) when going down.
I have wondered what the real value is outside the speculative frenzy.
I actually bought more recently. At this point I need professional help.
I made some tidy gains at the start and took profit. I only ever committed punt money to it so I am not really bothered. I've no choice now but to hold on and wait for the next bull run. It's only a loss if you sell.
Quote from: trailer on May 11, 2022, 09:10:51 AM
I actually bought more recently. At this point I need professional help.
I made some tidy gains at the start and took profit. I only ever committed punt money to it so I am not really bothered. I've no choice now but to hold on and wait for the next bull run. It's only a loss if you sell.
Yup same as that. Not too worried as it wasn't any mad amount of money but I'm well down.
It's been a bloodbath this last few days.
I'm down 61%! Is this manipulation or a total collapse? If it doesn't stabilise soon surely the whole shebang is looking very dodgy.
Quote from: bennydorano on May 12, 2022, 09:42:03 AM
I'm down 61%! Is this manipulation or a total collapse? If it doesn't stabilise soon surely the whole shebang is looking very dodgy.
100% manipulation by whales so they can buy back in again on the cheap.
Any chance of a breakdown in layman's terms and prediction on the future state?
Quote from: tiempo on May 12, 2022, 10:30:41 AM
Any chance of a breakdown in layman's terms and prediction on the future state?
The word is that Blackrock and Citadel caused the crypto crash via stablecoin manipulation.
Future prediction is that it will go back up again, it always does but the same type of crash will also happen again unless there are regulations.
The next time you are up in Crypto - take profit.
All in now and all out when the profits are hefty? I might get a motorhome yet!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/tech/terra-luna-ust-crypto-price-crash-b2076655.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/tech/terra-luna-ust-crypto-price-crash-b2076655.html%3famp)
Quote from: RedHand88 on May 12, 2022, 11:49:06 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/tech/terra-luna-ust-crypto-price-crash-b2076655.html%3famp (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/tech/terra-luna-ust-crypto-price-crash-b2076655.html%3famp)
Headline should have read -- Idiot invested live savings in ...... (fill in gap)
Threw £20 into Luna there. Ended up with 800k's worth. If it rebounds to even a £1 I'll be laughing.. Not confident one bit though.
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
Jesus, if it rebounded you'd make a complete fortune. £1000 be mad money to throw into it after it crashed.
A week ago it was trading at £66/67 per coin. Right now it is trading at £0.0000107. If you bought £1000 worth you'd have 936802 Luna. Huge risk if it doesn't rebound... Mental gains if it did
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 09:39:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
Jesus, if it rebounded you'd make a complete fortune. £1000 be mad money to throw into it after it crashed.
A week ago it was trading at £66/67 per coin. Right now it is trading at £0.0000107. If you bought £1000 worth you'd have 936802 Luna. Huge risk if it doesn't rebound... Mental gains if it did
Even a few hundred would make a massive potential return. Might throw something at it. Was the 4th most popular one before it crashed
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 09:39:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
Jesus, if it rebounded you'd make a complete fortune. £1000 be mad money to throw into it after it crashed.
A week ago it was trading at £66/67 per coin. Right now it is trading at £0.0000107. If you bought £1000 worth you'd have 936802 Luna. Huge risk if it doesn't rebound... Mental gains if it did
Why did it crash so much?
Is it not supposed to be the stable one...
Binance have halted trading on Luna.
Quote from: screenexile on May 13, 2022, 09:46:27 AM
Binance have halted trading on Luna.
other exchanges have too by the looks of it, don't be throwing money at it on an exchange that might still be trading it or you will lose your money. The circulating supply of Luna is now at 6 trillion coins, I think the circulating supply was only about 370 million coins at the start of the week.
The coin is dead.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
A big grand! ;D
If I was to say, invest the princely sum of £50 (I'm as far removed from a gambling man as you can get), who'd be a good bet?
Thanks
I'm heavy in on Cardano. Just flipping the NFTs and that are a great way to make extra.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
A big grand! ;D
If I was to say, invest the princely sum of £50 (I'm as far removed from a gambling man as you can get), who'd be a good bet?
Thanks
Not financial advice lol but if you can stretch to about £65-£70 buy some ISO 20022 compliant coins. Maybe go with 1000 XDC, 150 XLM, 50 XRP and leave them til the end of 2022/start of 2023.
Other ISO 20022 compliant coins are Iota and Algorand.
Crypto is far too volatile for ordinary people. It is easy to manipulate
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
I'm heavy in on Cardano. Just flipping the NFTs and that are a great way to make extra.
What app/website do you use for the NFT's? Would like to get started on them but want to do a bit of research first.
Was reading that several people have taken their lives this week due to the Luna crash. Shocking stuff.
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
A big grand! ;D
If I was to say, invest the princely sum of £50 (I'm as far removed from a gambling man as you can get), who'd be a good bet?
Thanks
Not financial advice lol but if you can stretch to about £65-£70 buy some ISO 20022 compliant coins. Maybe go with 1000 XDC, 150 XLM, 50 XRP and leave them til the end of 2022/start of 2023.
Other ISO 20022 compliant coins are Iota and Algorand.
Thanks Clar, will have a look (not that I have a feckin clue what I'm looking for right enough). Downloaded Trust Wallet, but through that app OK?
The whole thing is far too volatile. You just get people like Musk, I suppose like the stock market, playing it. Not worth the stress it brings.
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 10:39:42 AM
Was reading that several people have taken their lives this week due to the Luna crash. Shocking stuff.
Awful. Never put in more than you don't care about losing. See that ksi fella lost a few million at it as well.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 10:41:34 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 10:39:42 AM
Was reading that several people have taken their lives this week due to the Luna crash. Shocking stuff.
Awful. Never put in more than you don't care about losing. See that ksi fella lost a few million at it as well.
I've been off the drink for few weeks and on stupid diet, so what money I've save form staying away from the offy/bar and takeaways/restaurants I've saved about £400 or more lol
https://www.ft.com/content/6dcd0263-f974-4833-97a9-93b05be74f6e
The stablecoin, which operates almost like a central bank for the crypto market, has seen cracks emerge in its dollar peg after a much smaller stablecoin, TerraUSD, went into meltdown earlier this week. The two tokens work differently, but the nuance is largely the narcissism of small differences. Either these things can maintain a one-for-one peg with the dollar or they can't. If they can't, then the belief system underpinning crypto is in trouble. Tether also potentially matters to broader markets through a different channel. Its dollar peg is maintained not through algorithmic wizardry, like TerraUSD. Instead it claims to back the link with the buck using good old-fashioned reserves. Details on what exactly is in those reserves have been scant, and not subjected to widely accepted accounting norms. But in theory, they run to $80bn, matching the amount of tether tokens in circulation. Last year, rating agency Fitch warned that if tether holders were to fold and seek to flip their tokens into real money, then that could destabilise the short-term credit markets where the company says it holds lots of funds. "The rapid growth of stablecoin issuance could, in time, have implications for the functioning of short-term credit markets,"
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
A big grand! ;D
If I was to say, invest the princely sum of £50 (I'm as far removed from a gambling man as you can get), who'd be a good bet?
Thanks
Not financial advice lol but if you can stretch to about £65-£70 buy some ISO 20022 compliant coins. Maybe go with 1000 XDC, 150 XLM, 50 XRP and leave them til the end of 2022/start of 2023.
Other ISO 20022 compliant coins are Iota and Algorand.
Thanks Clar, will have a look (not that I have a feckin clue what I'm looking for right enough). Downloaded Trust Wallet, but through that app OK?
Haven't used Trust Wallet before but just downloaded it there to have a quick look. It supports XRP, XLM and Algorand but it appears to have a £50 minimum purchase per transaction? so if you are are only looking to spend £50 you are limited to picking 1 coin.
My view is not to go into the market yet on alt coins.
There will be a time where good money can be made, but given the macro economic conditions (Fed talking about another few rate hikes and the drive to have the Dollar so strong) I'd be fairly sure that we'll be going lower in the coming months and the alt coin valuations that we are seeing now will get rekt.
Like ADA has lost approx 80% from it's highs, but it could easily lose another 50% from here if Bitcoin bottoms. Ultimately the entire market of crypto is driven by how healthy Bitcoin is; when Bitcoin is not strong the alts get rekt.
I'll just keep my £50 in my pocket and use it to by pints then
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
A big grand! ;D
If I was to say, invest the princely sum of £50 (I'm as far removed from a gambling man as you can get), who'd be a good bet?
Thanks
Not financial advice lol but if you can stretch to about £65-£70 buy some ISO 20022 compliant coins. Maybe go with 1000 XDC, 150 XLM, 50 XRP and leave them til the end of 2022/start of 2023.
Other ISO 20022 compliant coins are Iota and Algorand.
Thanks Clar, will have a look (not that I have a feckin clue what I'm looking for right enough). Downloaded Trust Wallet, but through that app OK?
Haven't used Trust Wallet before but just downloaded it there to have a quick look. It supports XRP, XLM and Algorand but it appears to have a £50 minimum purchase per transaction? so if you are are only looking to spend £50 you are limited to picking 1 coin.
Thanks again. All double Dutch to me tbh! As BCB1says, I'll maybe hold onto the money too ;D
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
I'm heavy in on Cardano. Just flipping the NFTs and that are a great way to make extra.
What app/website do you use for the NFT's? Would like to get started on them but want to do a bit of research first.
The wallets I used for Cardano (ADA) are called Yoroi wallet and also Eternl wallet. I normally buy my Cardano on Binance and then transfer it over to the wallets.
In relation to where I buy the NFTs. In some cases I buy the NFTs directly from the seller when they are minting them. You find these projects on twitter and that so you need to do a bit of research into what NFTs you like and that the project is run by a good team. Discord channels are great but also running wild with scammers so have to have your wits about you
So if a project has 10,000 NFTs on sale for 50 ADA I send 50 ADA to their minting address and they send back a random NFT a few minutes later.
If a project has sold out and I want to buy an NFT on a secondary marketplace I normally only use jpg.store.
Its not for everyone mind you and I get that. I just enjoy Cardano whereas other people would avoid it like the plague. I enjoy it and some of the communities are really deadon and helpful. Couple of good Irish themed NFTs have done well that I am involved in and the team are all public and arrange meet ups for members. Its not all based online and scary scary like some would lead to believe.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 11:09:30 AM
I'll just keep my £50 in my pocket and use it to by pints then
Ah f**k it!! I'm out tomorrow for first in a while so will plurge it on Tapas and booze!
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
I'm heavy in on Cardano. Just flipping the NFTs and that are a great way to make extra.
What app/website do you use for the NFT's? Would like to get started on them but want to do a bit of research first.
The wallets I used for Cardano (ADA) are called Yoroi wallet and also Eternl wallet. I normally buy my Cardano on Binance and then transfer it over to the wallets.
In relation to where I buy the NFTs. In some cases I buy the NFTs directly from the seller when they are minting them. You find these projects on twitter and that so you need to do a bit of research into what NFTs you like and that the project is run by a good team. Discord channels are great but also running wild with scammers so have to have your wits about you
So if a project has 10,000 NFTs on sale for 50 ADA I send 50 ADA to their minting address and they send back a random NFT a few minutes later.
If a project has sold out and I want to buy an NFT on a secondary marketplace I normally only use jpg.store.
Its not for everyone mind you and I get that. I just enjoy Cardano whereas other people would avoid it like the plague. I enjoy it and some of the communities are really deadon and helpful. Couple of good Irish themed NFTs have done well that I am involved in and the team are all public and arrange meet ups for members. Its not all based online and scary scary like some would lead to believe.
cheers for the response. Half of that is going over my head so I'll definitely do plenty of reading up on it before I stick money in it
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
I'm heavy in on Cardano. Just flipping the NFTs and that are a great way to make extra.
What app/website do you use for the NFT's? Would like to get started on them but want to do a bit of research first.
The wallets I used for Cardano (ADA) are called Yoroi wallet and also Eternl wallet. I normally buy my Cardano on Binance and then transfer it over to the wallets.
In relation to where I buy the NFTs. In some cases I buy the NFTs directly from the seller when they are minting them. You find these projects on twitter and that so you need to do a bit of research into what NFTs you like and that the project is run by a good team. Discord channels are great but also running wild with scammers so have to have your wits about you
So if a project has 10,000 NFTs on sale for 50 ADA I send 50 ADA to their minting address and they send back a random NFT a few minutes later.
If a project has sold out and I want to buy an NFT on a secondary marketplace I normally only use jpg.store.
Its not for everyone mind you and I get that. I just enjoy Cardano whereas other people would avoid it like the plague. I enjoy it and some of the communities are really deadon and helpful. Couple of good Irish themed NFTs have done well that I am involved in and the team are all public and arrange meet ups for members. Its not all based online and scary scary like some would lead to believe.
cheers for the response. Half of that is going over my head so I'll definitely do plenty of reading up on it before I stick money in it
Is the Toro app thingy not handy to use? I've never used it for real money yet lol
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 11:51:00 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 11:49:21 AM
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 13, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
Quote from: AnPuca on May 13, 2022, 10:25:43 AM
I'm heavy in on Cardano. Just flipping the NFTs and that are a great way to make extra.
What app/website do you use for the NFT's? Would like to get started on them but want to do a bit of research first.
The wallets I used for Cardano (ADA) are called Yoroi wallet and also Eternl wallet. I normally buy my Cardano on Binance and then transfer it over to the wallets.
In relation to where I buy the NFTs. In some cases I buy the NFTs directly from the seller when they are minting them. You find these projects on twitter and that so you need to do a bit of research into what NFTs you like and that the project is run by a good team. Discord channels are great but also running wild with scammers so have to have your wits about you
So if a project has 10,000 NFTs on sale for 50 ADA I send 50 ADA to their minting address and they send back a random NFT a few minutes later.
If a project has sold out and I want to buy an NFT on a secondary marketplace I normally only use jpg.store.
Its not for everyone mind you and I get that. I just enjoy Cardano whereas other people would avoid it like the plague. I enjoy it and some of the communities are really deadon and helpful. Couple of good Irish themed NFTs have done well that I am involved in and the team are all public and arrange meet ups for members. Its not all based online and scary scary like some would lead to believe.
cheers for the response. Half of that is going over my head so I'll definitely do plenty of reading up on it before I stick money in it
Is the Toro app thingy not handy to use? I've never used it for real money yet lol
I've never used it myself so I couldn't honestly tell you.. See ads for it everywhere though
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 11:44:38 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 11:09:30 AM
I'll just keep my £50 in my pocket and use it to by pints then
Ah f**k it!! I'm out tomorrow for first in a while so will plurge it on Tapas and booze!
Sounds a better plan than any!!!
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 11:31:19 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 11:04:39 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 13, 2022, 10:30:27 AM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 13, 2022, 10:03:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 13, 2022, 09:26:57 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 13, 2022, 09:19:44 AM
Was wondering would it be worth a punt in the likes of Luna? Is it likely to rebound?
What is Luna and how much is a punt? £1000 to test the water?
A big grand! ;D
If I was to say, invest the princely sum of £50 (I'm as far removed from a gambling man as you can get), who'd be a good bet?
Thanks
Not financial advice lol but if you can stretch to about £65-£70 buy some ISO 20022 compliant coins. Maybe go with 1000 XDC, 150 XLM, 50 XRP and leave them til the end of 2022/start of 2023.
Other ISO 20022 compliant coins are Iota and Algorand.
Thanks Clar, will have a look (not that I have a feckin clue what I'm looking for right enough). Downloaded Trust Wallet, but through that app OK?
Haven't used Trust Wallet before but just downloaded it there to have a quick look. It supports XRP, XLM and Algorand but it appears to have a £50 minimum purchase per transaction? so if you are are only looking to spend £50 you are limited to picking 1 coin.
Thanks again. All double Dutch to me tbh! As BCB1says, I'll maybe hold onto the money too ;D
Same here.
Was just reading an article on The Atlantic about the collapse of that Terra/Luna thing and the whole idea that crypto is basically supported by collective faith in its value (as opposed to the value of something tangible like, say, land, or actual money with its long history as a proven system of exchange).
I just can't wrap my head around it.
Either the system itself or this thing you hear about it taking a small power plant to run the servers required for "mining". WTF is THAT all about? ???
The mayor of NYC made a big deal when he started a couple of months ago about getting his salary in crypto. I wonder if he still is? Even bitcoin, the supposed stable, established one, has declined more than 50% against the dollar in the past six months.
Crypto is a function of asset bubbles. There is no there there.
https://www.ft.com/content/f066fd8a-b71d-45a1-9a01-ebca9d66f87b
Finance ministers and central bank governors from the G7 group of industrialised countries have called for rapid development of the regulation of financial assets based on crypto technologies, immediately after one of the sharpest declines in the value of assets in the nascent class.
In a statement after a meeting of the group's finance ministers in Bonn, the G7 urged the international Financial Stability Board and other international authorities to "advance the swift development and implementation of consistent and comprehensive regulation of cryptoasset issuers and service providers".
The statement urged the need for "stronger disclosure and regulatory reporting", especially of the nature of reserve assets said to back so-called stablecoins — a key class of crypto asset whose value is tied to that of the US dollar.
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2022, 07:07:15 PM
Crypto is a function of asset bubbles. There is no there there.
That's what it looks like to me.
Yet all these smart people seem to think there IS something worthwhile underlying it.
Bitcoin is very different to all the other "crypto" assets.
All of the other tokens (exc stable coins) are effectively commercial ventures that are supposedly decentralized by they are actually ran by a limited number of key people / validators. I totally agree that a lot of the other crypto assets are just speculation assets, but I am content that Bitcoin is very different.
Bitcoin is truly decentralised and permissionless, none of the rest of the crypto assets can say that. Eth is the next supposedly most decentralised asset but they effectively force validators to update the code / issuanace protocal as directed by the Ethereum Foundation due to the Eth difficulty Bomb.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 08:19:45 PM
Bitcoin is very different to all the other "crypto" assets.
All of the other tokens (exc stable coins) are effectively commercial ventures that are supposedly decentralized by they are actually ran by a limited number of key people / validators. I totally agree that a lot of the other crypto assets are just speculation assets, but I am content that Bitcoin is very different.
Bitcoin is truly decentralised and permissionless, none of the rest of the crypto assets can say that. Eth is the next supposedly most decentralised asset but they effectively force validators to update the code / issuanace protocal as directed by the Ethereum Foundation due to the Eth difficulty Bomb.
I don't see what that has to do with the price of fish. Bitcoin still has no intrinsic value, only a market value, just like all these other Dutch Tulip cryptocurrencies. Won't be long now until this party's over.
Crypto isn't scalable in a world of climate change
https://www.ft.com/content/446e0e6a-6858-4e33-a6cf-8c2e302dc75d
According to a New York Times analysis, bitcoin mining uses 0.5 per cent of all the world's electricity. That's seven times more than that used by all of Google's global operations. There is also a growing e-waste problem: a recent study by researchers from MIT and the Dutch central bank estimated that the waste produced by every single bitcoin transaction — there are usually about 300,000 each day — is equivalent to that of two iPhones, due to the short lifespans of the mining hardware
Punters need to look under the bonnet in order to understand how robust their investments are likely to be under pressure
https://www.ft.com/content/7e0e2e24-cb4c-4694-be86-5cad9fc26d3e
Regulators need to extend some oversight. In America, tokens that act like funky derivatives or mutual funds are best overseen by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission or Securities and Exchange Commission. Coins that operate like mini banks are better monitored by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. (Circle, which issues USDC coins, is now in active discussions with the OCC for precisely this.)
If regulators get involved, they should require stable coin issuers to provide audited, detailed statements about their assets, and impose big reserve requirements. That sounds obvious. But it is notably not what Tether, the largest stablecoin issuer, has done.
Regulators should demand that crypto exchanges uphold basic listing standards.
And finally, clarity is urgently needed around custody, given that the exchanges are not just acting as platforms for cutting deals, but often holding customers' assets as well. This oft-ignored concentration of power makes a mockery of the decentralisation mantra that supposedly drives the crypto dream (and, as I recently noted, is just one contradiction in this sector's creation mythology.) But it also creates a practical risk: failure could spark market panic. Some small non-US jurisdictions have custody rules that protect investors if an exchange goes bankrupt.
Not so on a federal level in America, as Coinbase executives were forced to admit to investors last week. This definitely needs to change.
Quote from: seafoid on May 20, 2022, 09:13:56 PM
Crypto isn't scalable in a world of climate change
https://www.ft.com/content/446e0e6a-6858-4e33-a6cf-8c2e302dc75d
According to a New York Times analysis, bitcoin mining uses 0.5 per cent of all the world's electricity. That's seven times more than that used by all of Google's global operations. There is also a growing e-waste problem: a recent study by researchers from MIT and the Dutch central bank estimated that the waste produced by every single bitcoin transaction — there are usually about 300,000 each day — is equivalent to that of two iPhones, due to the short lifespans of the mining hardware
Holy feck.
Another attack? Dropping again - Ethereum related tokens
BTC Tanking lads... buy the dip!!
The game is up
Quote from: screenexile on June 13, 2022, 10:46:55 AM
BTC Tanking lads... buy the dip!!
It's like a big pyramid
scheme scam.. All those that got in at the start are still winning I'd say... well he said
Is investing in Bitcoin a pyramid scheme?
"But if you look beyond the hype, you'll find nothing more than a pyramid scheme posing as currency." He criticizes the way cryptocurrencies are sold to budding investors. "Since cryptocurrencies are too volatile to be used as an actual currency, people treat it as a sort of investment scheme,
It's pretty simple lads, Bitcoin is viewed as a risk-on asset by the market. And with the current macro conditions all risk-on assets are getting destroyed. Bitcoin is the currently the most volatile (to both the upside and downside) of the risk-on assets.
That's it, as far as Bitcoin is concerned.
Other crypto type stuff, including defi is a sharkpit with companies trying to make a profit wherever they can. Bitcoin is different.
I'm holding on a little bit longer (I haven't been buying the dip just yet) and will certainly buy some more BTC at what I think are really low prices. I think the economy will tank so much, just look at 2 and 10 year US Treasury rates today that the Fed will have to turn dovish in a little while and we'll be back to a risk-on environment.
EDIT - I'm not aftermining this now. Look at what I posted here in May on this thread a few pages back: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28150.msg2122683#msg2122683
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 13, 2022, 03:25:47 PM
It's pretty simple lads, Bitcoin is viewed as a risk-on asset by the market. And with the current macro conditions all risk-on assets are getting destroyed. Bitcoin is the currently the most volatile (to both the upside and downside) of the risk-on assets.
That's it, as far as Bitcoin is concerned.
Other crypto type stuff, including defi is a sharkpit with companies trying to make a profit wherever they can. Bitcoin is different.
I'm holding on a little bit longer (I haven't been buying the dip just yet) and will certainly buy some more BTC at what I think are really low prices. I think the economy will tank so much, just look at 2 and 10 year US Treasury rates today that the Fed will have to turn dovish in a little while and we'll be back to a risk-on environment.
EDIT - I'm not aftermining this now. Look at what I posted here in May on this thread a few pages back: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28150.msg2122683#msg2122683
concur, bitcoin is a digital property asset that will replace gold at the standard inflation hedge
it can be moved anywhere in the world in seconds which gives it a significant advantage over gold
10k would be a good price to get in imo if you haven't already ;)
I see a lad in north has lost his life savings, 6 figure, in a complex crypto scam.
Quote from: marty34 on June 14, 2022, 08:59:41 AM
I see a lad in north has lost his life savings, 6 figure, in a complex crypto scam.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61789747
if you trade crypto you will get lucky a few times but you will lose out more often than not whether you trade yourself or especially having some dodgy company doing it for you. imo best strategy is to pick a few coins stick them on a ledger nano (so that you are in control of your crypto) and hodl until the market recovers. It sounds like this guy got greedy tbh.
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 14, 2022, 12:27:43 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 13, 2022, 03:25:47 PM
It's pretty simple lads, Bitcoin is viewed as a risk-on asset by the market. And with the current macro conditions all risk-on assets are getting destroyed. Bitcoin is the currently the most volatile (to both the upside and downside) of the risk-on assets.
That's it, as far as Bitcoin is concerned.
Other crypto type stuff, including defi is a sharkpit with companies trying to make a profit wherever they can. Bitcoin is different.
I'm holding on a little bit longer (I haven't been buying the dip just yet) and will certainly buy some more BTC at what I think are really low prices. I think the economy will tank so much, just look at 2 and 10 year US Treasury rates today that the Fed will have to turn dovish in a little while and we'll be back to a risk-on environment.
EDIT - I'm not aftermining this now. Look at what I posted here in May on this thread a few pages back: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28150.msg2122683#msg2122683
concur, bitcoin is a digital property asset that will replace gold at the standard inflation hedge
it can be moved anywhere in the world in seconds which gives it a significant advantage over gold
10k would be a good price to get in imo if you haven't already ;)
I'd say what you both are talking about is a speculative investment, that's definitely not a replacement hedge against inflation.
Why has bitcoin not acted like it was claimed to do n these times instead of the big dip?
In inflationary times what is needed is a hedge item of relatively constant value where currencies decrease in value around that inflation hedge. Has gold risen in actual value this past year or have currencies decreased in value?
Just asking like?
Quote from: marty34 on June 14, 2022, 08:59:41 AM
I see a lad in north has lost his life savings, 6 figure, in a complex crypto scam.
anyone follow the OneCoin scam. they reckon it could end up being the biggest scam ever and no often howoften people are told its a Busted Scam they still find New investors.
I get i little worried by this thread when i see Poster with a handful of post all on this Subject.
Cyrpto currency is the Tupperware or herbal life for the new generation. pretty new Dress but same scam
I put a few £ into this. Took some profit initially but am down I'd say £2k.
It is a complete nonsense. None of the projects do anything. Etherium, Cardano, Luna, Tezos, Enjin, Dogecoin etc etc all Ponzi shite. I sort of get the idea behind bitcoin as digital gold but it is difficult to see it as something that'll be adopted by the masses.
All the coins rise and fall based on Bitcoin which says everything. I'll hold until the thing rebounds probably a few years and am not to worried.
Anyone who talks about this in any sort of serious way to you, you should stop immediately and get them professional help.
Quote from: Main Street on June 14, 2022, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Prokhorov on June 14, 2022, 12:27:43 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 13, 2022, 03:25:47 PM
It's pretty simple lads, Bitcoin is viewed as a risk-on asset by the market. And with the current macro conditions all risk-on assets are getting destroyed. Bitcoin is the currently the most volatile (to both the upside and downside) of the risk-on assets.
That's it, as far as Bitcoin is concerned.
Other crypto type stuff, including defi is a sharkpit with companies trying to make a profit wherever they can. Bitcoin is different.
I'm holding on a little bit longer (I haven't been buying the dip just yet) and will certainly buy some more BTC at what I think are really low prices. I think the economy will tank so much, just look at 2 and 10 year US Treasury rates today that the Fed will have to turn dovish in a little while and we'll be back to a risk-on environment.
EDIT - I'm not aftermining this now. Look at what I posted here in May on this thread a few pages back: http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=28150.msg2122683#msg2122683
concur, bitcoin is a digital property asset that will replace gold at the standard inflation hedge
it can be moved anywhere in the world in seconds which gives it a significant advantage over gold
10k would be a good price to get in imo if you haven't already ;)
I'd say what you both are talking about is a speculative investment, that's definitely not a replacement hedge against inflation.
Why has bitcoin not acted like it was claimed to do n these times instead of the big dip?
In inflationary times what is needed is a hedge item of relatively constant value where currencies decrease in value around that inflation hedge. Has gold risen in actual value this past year or have currencies decreased in value?
Just asking like?
I thought this thread was quite good on discussing whether BTC is an inflation hedge or speculative investment.
https://twitter.com/Suitpossum/status/1536330065599922176?t=Gk_Bi7EnJuEYh-JtlGhXog&s=08 (https://twitter.com/Suitpossum/status/1536330065599922176?t=Gk_Bi7EnJuEYh-JtlGhXog&s=08)
https://www.ft.com/content/60a8a0ad-3946-4aeb-a0f5-f32a1b3d2637
The crypto market has come under strain following months of declines in its biggest coins, shrinking the value of the market from a high of $3.2tn in November to just under $1tn.
Crypto is a Ponzi scheme
https://www.ft.com/content/f15ed364-ea62-40f0-ab7e-395b29e4b23a
The risk of widespread losses — and of crypto's turmoil spilling over into the real world — is sufficient that some guardrails are needed. There has been some progress in the US, UK and EU to begin designing frameworks, despite internal turf wars and concerns that complicating the current simplicity of a mostly unregulated, unprotected product may bring its own unintended consequences. But how can a phenomenon that is everywhere yet nowhere be properly regulated? Crypto's decentralised structure is designed to be out of the reach of national governments — a red flag or a libertarian goal, depending on viewpoint.
A start would be to focus on where crypto and fiat currencies meet, namely stablecoins, which claim to be underpinned by real-world assets as a way for traders to park their cash safely between bets on more volatile coins. That promise needs to be audited, and stablecoins should be subject to capital and liquidity requirements. But unless there is lockstep action taken around the world, little will be accomplished to control an online industry that operates beyond borders. Until then, investors ought to remember another adage that the crypto industry has not pushed: if it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
https://www.ft.com/content/f2faeec9-6d42-4d78-9c68-1f59795789a7
The crypto crash (and preceding bubble) shows that cryptocurrencies are objects of speculation rather than stores of value. That also makes them unusable as units of account. As the BIS notes: "The prevalence of stablecoins, which attempt to peg their value to the US dollar or other conventional currencies, indicates the pervasive need in the crypto sector to piggyback on the credibility provided by the unit of account issued by the central bank. In this sense, stablecoins are the manifestation of crypto's search for a nominal anchor."
I hear that Elon Musk has got rid of his Bitcoin. I'd say that won't help it recover anytime soon
In years to come people will ask what did it once feel like to be a virtual millionaire.. Really difficult for many people if this is the end..
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on July 21, 2022, 09:33:04 AM
I hear that Elon Musk has got rid of his Bitcoin. I'd say that won't help it recover anytime soon
think he sold in q2 but it's only becoming knowledge now. would explain the crash then.
Quote from: rrhf on July 21, 2022, 01:04:36 PM
In years to come people will ask what did it once feel like to be a virtual millionaire.. Really difficult for many people if this is the end..
I follow a girl on twitter who was a virtual millionaire last year. she's down a good bit now.
Complete dogshit. It is all makey uppy shite. A complete waste of time. But there will be another bull run. You just have to hold on. I'm actually buying some most weeks.
Think about it. 99% of investments are assets or commodities you never see or use. That can be currencies, tech, shares etc. Investor confidence vs supply is what keeps prices high. Btc will come again. Buy btc now when confidence is low
Bitcoin is up 18% in the last month. No idea what you naysayers are talking about.
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 22, 2022, 10:24:00 AM
Bitcoin is up 18% in the last month. No idea what you naysayers are talking about.
If you sold your bitcoins today would you be up? (If you have any)
Watching bbc doc ... El Salvador president is loving the bitcoin, he's shoved the countries full economy into it...
Quote from: OrchardOrange on July 21, 2022, 10:54:23 PM
Think about it. 99% of investments are assets or commodities you never see or use. That can be currencies, tech, shares etc. Investor confidence vs supply is what keeps prices high. Btc will come again. Buy btc now when confidence is low
And it will go again and who knows
Where it'll stop.
Invest in block chain bit coin is a distraction
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 22, 2022, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 22, 2022, 10:24:00 AM
Bitcoin is up 18% in the last month. No idea what you naysayers are talking about.
If you sold your bitcoins today would you be up? (If you have any)
Don't currently have any.
Bought at 13k a few years ago. Sold a year later for little more. (Missed the 60k run)
Article in today's Sunday Times magazine - Crypto Inferno, how more than $2 trillion went up in flames.
Netflix doc "Trust No-One: The Hunt for the Crypto King" is good.
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Hear ya brother. Down ~ 50% myself. People who bought NFTs bound to have got some roasting.
I don't think it is done done but it's definitely done for the next 5 years.
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
As I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mDIJiwNk2n8
Tulips from Amsterdam
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Crypto is very vulnerable to inflation As soon as conditions return to normal it will probably take off again.
The trick is to sell when the price starts falling and wait for the floor.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/23/jim-cramer-i-would-not-touch-crypto-in-a-million-years.html
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Crypto is very vulnerable to inflation As soon as conditions return to normal it will probably take off again.
The trick is to sell when the price starts falling and wait for the floor.
If lads want to "invest" in makey up currencies
More fool them
Quote from: clonadmad on December 24, 2022, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Crypto is very vulnerable to inflation As soon as conditions return to normal it will probably take off again.
The trick is to sell when the price starts falling and wait for the floor.
If lads want to "invest" in makey up currencies
More fool them
Theres people have made an absolute fortune at it. It'll probably hit 100k at some point and drop again.
Quote from: seafoid on December 23, 2022, 05:19:32 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/12/23/jim-cramer-i-would-not-touch-crypto-in-a-million-years.html
I'll bet Jim has a secret stash.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 24, 2022, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on December 24, 2022, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Crypto is very vulnerable to inflation As soon as conditions return to normal it will probably take off again.
The trick is to sell when the price starts falling and wait for the floor.
If lads want to "invest" in makey up currencies
More fool them
Theres people have made an absolute fortune at it. It'll probably hit 100k at some point and drop again.
In the same way you hear about lads who made a fortune betting on horses,dogs or whatever
Maybe the board should set up their own coin
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 24, 2022, 03:48:25 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on December 24, 2022, 03:40:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 10, 2022, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2022, 11:11:16 AM
Another collapse yesterday and it continues https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/2022/11/08/crypto-crash-intensifies-amid-downfall-of-industrys-white-knight-bankman-fried/?sh=30f4bf4d25f9
My holdings current at -70%. It's done as a thing I reckon.
Crypto is very vulnerable to inflation As soon as conditions return to normal it will probably take off again.
The trick is to sell when the price starts falling and wait for the floor.
If lads want to "invest" in makey up currencies
More fool them
Theres people have made an absolute fortune at it. It'll probably hit 100k at some point and drop again.
I know of someone who has made tens of thousands. I made maybe 2 or 3.
It's all about timing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hx4gdlfamo
Since I started playing stocks I'm down 9%. The difference from crypto is these stocks are industrials that are suffering from a global stock selloff, even though they produce goods or services that have actual value. Most of them are paying dividends. I'm planning on holding onto them for a long time, so I'm buying them on the downward slope hoping for a long term turnaround.
The crypto bubble has just been a symptom of the era of low interest rates, with investors scrambling around in search of anything that'll produce a decent inflation-beating return. Some of them got desperate and got caught up in the mania.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64210289.amp (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64210289.amp)
Not sure if this belongs here!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64536593
'The whole idea of crypto (which is what this is) was to decentralise currency and give people the power to be their own bank.
This will just be a way of the banks/Govt/Financial institutions to control our money more efficiently'.
Quote from: grounded on February 07, 2023, 01:29:34 PM
Not sure if this belongs here!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-64536593
'The whole idea of crypto (which is what this is) was to decentralise currency and give people the power to be their own bank.
This will just be a way of the banks/Govt/Financial institutions to control our money more efficiently'.
That is just plámás
Crypto has had a bit of a bounce lately. I had bought some (I know!) at the bottom there and it's up nearly 40%!
Quote from: trailer on February 07, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
Crypto has had a bit of a bounce lately. I had bought some (I know!) at the bottom there and it's up nearly 40%!
If someone is giving you 40% profit, sell and wait for the next drop ...
But it could go up 50...
A while back I sold off all my peripheral ones and bought more Bitcoin & Ethereum, took a hit but thought it was a sensible enough move. Is everything on the rise again? I've never checked the ones I sold since.
It might go up more but there is going to be a crash.
I think the problem most people have is knowing when to get out.
The VIX index is a good metric. It measures financial chaos conditions.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EVIX
The higher it goes the more dangerous investment is.
In 2020 it went to 80.
So if you said 30 or 40 was your trigger to get out that should work.
Cash is king boys.
Quote from: trailer on February 07, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
Crypto has had a bit of a bounce lately. I had bought some (I know!) at the bottom there and it's up nearly 40%!
Kiss of death
Quote from: bennydorano on February 10, 2023, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 07, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
Crypto has had a bit of a bounce lately. I had bought some (I know!) at the bottom there and it's up nearly 40%!
Kiss of death
Hopefully he sold them at 40% like I told him ;D
Quote from: bennydorano on February 10, 2023, 05:49:48 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 07, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
Crypto has had a bit of a bounce lately. I had bought some (I know!) at the bottom there and it's up nearly 40%!
Kiss of death
Ah stop.!!
TBF I don't plan to sell in the near term. I just keep buying away. It'll will hit another run in 3 or 4 years and that's when I plan on selling. Until then I just tip away at it. I see it as a gamble that could pay off big time but if it goes tits up (most likely) I only lose what I can afford to.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2023/03/13/collapse-of-three-us-lenders-rattles-crypto-markets/
Speaking to The Irish Times before the Silvergate and Silicon Valley Bank closures, Sharon Donnery, deputy governor of the Central Bank with responsibility for financial regulation, said there is "a lot of concern globally" around crypto and the threat it poses to financial stability.
The irony.
The current bout of finanical instability is caused purely by the Fed.
Print loads of dollars in QE from 2019-21, banks invested a lot of these funds in Treasuries etc. Indeed due to liquidity regulations they are mandated to hold a minimun percentage of HQLA (High Quality Liquid Assets) in order to reduce their riskiness.
But because of all the financial easing inflation started to run away, so then the Fed rapidly raised rates as well as remove approx $1tn from the system by way of QT.
Due to the rapid rise in interest rates the market value of the Treasuries fall. The rising interest rates also cause businesses to struggle (this is one of the prescriptions for reducing inflation) which means there is less cash deposited at banks. When account holders ask to withdraw their cash and the banks don't have sufficient cash on hand (due to fractional reserve banking) then they need to sell their assets to raise the cash. But their assets are now worth less due to higher interest rates. This means the banks lose money so then try to raise fresh equity, but this then spooks the market and a bank run starts.
Every single aspect of that is caused by the Fed / Central Bank actions, not crypto. How did they not realise that increasing rates from 0% to 5% wouldn't result in these issues with huge chunks of banks' assets having to be marked to market?
Given the way the Fed has used this to close down Signature Bank (even though it supposedly wasn't in that much trouble) as it and Silvergate were the two most crypto friendly banks it is hard not to wonder if we are approaching the 3rd stage of the below Mahatma Gandi quote:
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"
How does the Fed / Central Bank get the trains back on the track? The QE started in 2019 due to worsening conditions in the Repo market, the printing resulted in rising asset prices and really high inflation. They raise rates for 12 months and reduce their balance sheet for 7 or 8 months and we now end up in this crisis. I'm sure they'll go back to easing again, indeed it could perhaps already be said that easy has started again yesterday with banks able to post their under water collateral with the Fed to borrow the full nominal value. What happens when inflation goes crazy again?
I've said for a couple of years here that I don't know if Bitcoin is the answer, but the current system seems to be running on fumes and I'm happy to take a punt on Bitcoin given the evidence before me.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 13, 2023, 08:02:23 PM
The irony.
The current bout of finanical instability is caused purely by the Fed.
Print loads of dollars in QE from 2019-21, banks invested a lot of these funds in Treasuries etc. Indeed due to liquidity regulations they are mandated to hold a minimun percentage of HQLA (High Quality Liquid Assets) in order to reduce their riskiness.
But because of all the financial easing inflation started to run away, so then the Fed rapidly raised rates as well as remove approx $1tn from the system by way of QT.
Due to the rapid rise in interest rates the market value of the Treasuries fall. The rising interest rates also cause businesses to struggle (this is one of the prescriptions for reducing inflation) which means there is less cash deposited at banks. When account holders ask to withdraw their cash and the banks don't have sufficient cash on hand (due to fractional reserve banking) then they need to sell their assets to raise the cash. But their assets are now worth less due to higher interest rates. This means the banks lose money so then try to raise fresh equity, but this then spooks the market and a bank run starts.
Every single aspect of that is caused by the Fed / Central Bank actions, not crypto. How did they not realise that increasing rates from 0% to 5% wouldn't result in these issues with huge chunks of banks' assets having to be marked to market?
Given the way the Fed has used this to close down Signature Bank (even though it supposedly wasn't in that much trouble) as it and Silvergate were the two most crypto friendly banks it is hard not to wonder if we are approaching the 3rd stage of the below Mahatma Gandi quote:
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"
How does the Fed / Central Bank get the trains back on the track? The QE started in 2019 due to worsening conditions in the Repo market, the printing resulted in rising asset prices and really high inflation. They raise rates for 12 months and reduce their balance sheet for 7 or 8 months and we now end up in this crisis. I'm sure they'll go back to easing again, indeed it could perhaps already be said that easy has started again yesterday with banks able to post their under water collateral with the Fed to borrow the full nominal value. What happens when inflation goes crazy again?
I've said for a couple of years here that I don't know if Bitcoin is the answer, but the current system seems to be running on fumes and I'm happy to take a punt on Bitcoin given the evidence before me.
Nothing to do with Thiel and the Venture Capitalist crew?
Quote from: Mike Tyson on March 13, 2023, 09:17:04 PM
Nothing to do with Thiel and the Venture Capitalist crew?
How does what a "VC crew" did impact on the ability of a Bank to be able to honour their deposits when they are requested?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on March 13, 2023, 09:34:54 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on March 13, 2023, 09:17:04 PM
Nothing to do with Thiel and the Venture Capitalist crew?
How does what a "VC crew" did impact on the ability of a Bank to be able to honour their deposits when they are requested?
By telling everyone to withdraw their deposits and causing a run on the bank?
They used long term instruments to fund (what became) short term liabilities
They didn't hedge their interest rate risk
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-news-today-03-13-2023/card/silicon-valley-bank-dropped-a-hedge-against-rising-rates-in-2022-6MiD9ZLVY9CF8zbIM7ze
"One point that surely didn't help: The bank reported virtually no interest rate hedges on its massive bond portfolio at the end of 2022. It terminated or let expire rate hedges on more than $14 billion of securities throughout the year, the company said in its year-end financial report.
Interest rate hedges are often in the form of something called swaps, a financial instrument that effectively turns an investor's fixed-rate loans or bonds into floating rate by paying a third-party. These can be important for banks like SVB because so many of their investments are tied up in fixed-income bonds like mortgages or Treasurys. When rates go up, fixed-income bonds fall in value, as happened with SVB.
Previously, SVB had boasted about its hedging"
It's mind boggling how negligent and irresponsible they were
Glad to see Trump still getting the credit he deserves...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mayrarodriguezvalladares/2023/03/12/how-trumps-deregulation-sowed-the-seeds-for-silicon-valley-banks-demise/?sh=53ad9dfd3432
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2023, 12:39:42 AM
Glad to see Trump still getting the credit he deserves...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mayrarodriguezvalladares/2023/03/12/how-trumps-deregulation-sowed-the-seeds-for-silicon-valley-banks-demise/?sh=53ad9dfd3432
And Barney Frank too
https://www.wsj.com/articles/barney-frank-pushed-to-ease-financial-regulations-after-joining-signature-bank-board-e5c8819c?mod=mhpO
The 2010 Dodd-Frank legislation set tougher regulatory safeguards on banks with more than $50 billion in assets. After leaving office and joining Signature's board, Mr. Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, publicly advocated for easing those new standards for smaller banks.P
Quote from: whitey on March 13, 2023, 11:30:01 PM
They used long term instruments to fund (what became) short term liabilities
They didn't hedge their interest rate risk
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-news-today-03-13-2023/card/silicon-valley-bank-dropped-a-hedge-against-rising-rates-in-2022-6MiD9ZLVY9CF8zbIM7ze
"One point that surely didn't help: The bank reported virtually no interest rate hedges on its massive bond portfolio at the end of 2022. It terminated or let expire rate hedges on more than $14 billion of securities throughout the year, the company said in its year-end financial report.
Interest rate hedges are often in the form of something called swaps, a financial instrument that effectively turns an investor's fixed-rate loans or bonds into floating rate by paying a third-party. These can be important for banks like SVB because so many of their investments are tied up in fixed-income bonds like mortgages or Treasurys. When rates go up, fixed-income bonds fall in value, as happened with SVB.
Previously, SVB had boasted about its hedging"
It's mind boggling how negligent and irresponsible they were
Yea seems they were asleep at the wheel. No Chief Risk Officer since April 2022 and no explanation for why wouldn't exactly fill you with confidence about their Risk Management practices...
Quote from: whitey on March 14, 2023, 01:11:04 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2023, 12:39:42 AM
Glad to see Trump still getting the credit he deserves...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mayrarodriguezvalladares/2023/03/12/how-trumps-deregulation-sowed-the-seeds-for-silicon-valley-banks-demise/?sh=53ad9dfd3432
And Barney Frank too
https://www.wsj.com/articles/barney-frank-pushed-to-ease-financial-regulations-after-joining-signature-bank-board-e5c8819c?mod=mhpO
The 2010 Dodd-Frank legislation set tougher regulatory safeguards on banks with more than $50 billion in assets. After leaving office and joining Signature's board, Mr. Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, publicly advocated for easing those new standards for smaller banks.P
A basic root cause analysis would tell you that the changes Trump actually made had more of a negative impact than the ones Frank argued for but didn't get.
Nobody could argue this is good for Trump.
Quote from: smelmoth on March 14, 2023, 07:26:45 AM
Quote from: whitey on March 14, 2023, 01:11:04 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 14, 2023, 12:39:42 AM
Glad to see Trump still getting the credit he deserves...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mayrarodriguezvalladares/2023/03/12/how-trumps-deregulation-sowed-the-seeds-for-silicon-valley-banks-demise/?sh=53ad9dfd3432
And Barney Frank too
https://www.wsj.com/articles/barney-frank-pushed-to-ease-financial-regulations-after-joining-signature-bank-board-e5c8819c?mod=mhpO
The 2010 Dodd-Frank legislation set tougher regulatory safeguards on banks with more than $50 billion in assets. After leaving office and joining Signature's board, Mr. Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat, publicly advocated for easing those new standards for smaller banks.P
A basic root cause analysis would tell you that the changes Trump actually made had more of a negative impact than the ones Frank argued for but didn't get.
Nobody could argue this is good for Trump.
m
Believe what you want
"Mr. Frank, who has earned more than $2.4 million in compensation from Signature Bank since 2015, rejected the idea that the regulatory change abetted Signature's collapse.
"Nobody has shown me any evidence of systemic or other kinds of fraud that would have been prevented" without the 2018 rollback, Mr. Frank said.
Lifting the threshold, Mr. Frank said, was a good change that "saved smaller banks a lot of paperwork." Mr. Frank said that as early as 2013 he began talking publicly about the need to change it, predating his employment with Signature Bank"
Bloomberg
A One-Off?
There is an argument that SVB was a unique situation with little implication for the rest of the banking system (and Signature Bank, heavily exposed to crypto, doesn't really affect the case). A look at its share performance since the beginning of the pandemic makes it clear that it was generating classic speculative excitement, which is never a good sign in a bank. The fall in its stock price over the last year compared to the financial sector as a whole shows that the market perceived the bank to be in some kind of trouble:
BBC News - Is the US trying to kill crypto?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65861096
Quote from: bennydorano on June 16, 2023, 04:01:21 PM
BBC News - Is the US trying to kill crypto?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65861096
About time but probably too late. What about all the people who got ripped off?
Quote from: bennydorano on June 16, 2023, 04:01:21 PM
BBC News - Is the US trying to kill crypto?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65861096
Or were they trying to kill the companies who started / currently lead in Crypto to facilitate the traditional finance market moving in?
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/blackrock-close-filing-bitcoin-etf-coindesk-2023-06-15/
Good bounce today, something going on? I've been minded to cash out lately, got the trigger finger ready
Quote from: bennydorano on June 21, 2023, 05:48:10 PM
Good bounce today, something going on? I've been minded to cash out lately, got the trigger finger ready
5 or 6 spot Bitcoin ETF applications filed by traditional finance companies. The thinking is they must have got a wink and a nod if they have all applied at the same time
A real bump happening this past week. Another bull run perhaps?
Quote from: trailer on October 23, 2023, 02:37:49 PMA real bump happening this past week. Another bull run perhaps?
Bull run coming up next year 2024/25.. Bitcoin halving in April I'd expect a dip then, and after that onto the upside.
Been red months most of the year so been nice couple of green months with September and October so far
Still going up. Some jump in the last month. I'm still down about 25% though
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on October 24, 2023, 11:38:45 AMStill going up. Some jump in the last month. I'm still down about 25% though
I'm up 25% ish but I had been buying a lot over this last 6 months.
Just need shib to hit a dollar .... then I'll have $4m
Wallets up 65% in last 2/3 weeks.. Long May it continue
Now's a good time to look at shit coins and gaming coins. They're gonna 10, 20, and 30x
Not financial advise, only risk what you can afford to lose etc.
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 08:55:52 AMNow's a good time to look at shit coins and gaming coins. They're gonna 10, 20, and 30x
Not financial advise, only risk what you can afford to lose etc.
Not financial advice 😂😂 You been watching the crypto influencers too Trailer? Lol
Bought my gaming/AI coins a few months ago.. most of them have doubled already. Biggest regret is not buying NAKA at the start of the year, it's up 400% since April
Quote from: Mourne Red on November 09, 2023, 09:35:50 AMQuote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 08:55:52 AMNow's a good time to look at shit coins and gaming coins. They're gonna 10, 20, and 30x
Not financial advise, only risk what you can afford to lose etc.
Not financial advice 😂😂 You been watching the crypto influencers too Trailer? Lol
Bought my gaming/AI coins a few months ago.. most of them have doubled already. Biggest regret is not buying NAKA at the start of the year, it's up 400% since April
Just in case some balloon puts the house on it lol!!
Quote from: Mourne Red on November 09, 2023, 09:35:50 AMQuote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 08:55:52 AMNow's a good time to look at shit coins and gaming coins. They're gonna 10, 20, and 30x
Not financial advise, only risk what you can afford to lose etc.
Not financial advice 😂😂 You been watching the crypto influencers too Trailer? Lol
Bought my gaming/AI coins a few months ago.. most of them have doubled already. Biggest regret is not buying NAKA at the start of the year, it's up 400% since April
much are you offering for me?
Quote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 08:55:52 AMNow's a good time to look at shit coins and gaming coins. They're gonna 10, 20, and 30x
Not financial advise, only risk what you can afford to lose etc.
You will have plenty of choice
Quote from: TabClear on November 09, 2023, 10:51:34 AMQuote from: trailer on November 09, 2023, 08:55:52 AMNow's a good time to look at shit coins and gaming coins. They're gonna 10, 20, and 30x
Not financial advise, only risk what you can afford to lose etc.
You will have plenty of choice
DOGE to $1. Who says no?
Out of interest did anyone bother with that Pi proto currency that was prominent a couple of years ago? (you can mine on your phone, when it eventually goes live, cash in). Unsurprisingly a lot of mixed opinions about it, scam, data harvesting etc.. I was of the opinion to give it a go, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Still mining away on my phone, no sign of the cash out tho
Absolute moonshot over the weekend. Bitcoin over $40k. $100K incoming. If you're not in you'll miss out.
NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE.
Quote from: trailer on December 04, 2023, 01:17:14 PMAbsolute moonshot over the weekend. Bitcoin over $40k. $100K incoming. If you're not in you'll miss out.
NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE.
Take my money, quick! ::)
Quote from: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2022, 08:11:16 PMAs I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
It's not rocket science. As an investment, provide you use just a little bit of common sense it's hard to get much better risk adjusted returns as the boom / bust cycles have been so strong since its inception.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 04, 2023, 10:06:33 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2022, 08:11:16 PMAs I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
It's not rocket science. As an investment, provide you use just a little bit of common sense it's hard to get much better risk adjusted returns as the boom / bust cycles have been so strong since its inception.
Do you have a price in your head that is your cashout point? Or even a partial cashout.
A lot harder in practice to cash out I know, if / when the price continues to rise
There's a great book called Easy Money - Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud.
Makes me glad I never got involved in it. The whole game is rigged. Try to sell on the exchanges when the price goes up and you suddenly run into "technical difficulties." Try shorting them and the same thing happens when they drop.
Pick undervalued stocks and hang onto them for years. Certificates of Deposit are paying good interest now with the high interest rates. Take your time and build your wealth steadily. Don't get caught up in this get-rich-quick stuff. It's Dutch tulip mania all over again. Crypto currencies have no use, the only reason people are buying them is for speculation. If that's not a bubble I don't know what is.
Quote from: JohnDenver on December 04, 2023, 11:03:02 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on December 04, 2023, 10:06:33 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2022, 08:11:16 PMAs I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
It's not rocket science. As an investment, provide you use just a little bit of common sense it's hard to get much better risk adjusted returns as the boom / bust cycles have been so strong since its inception.
Do you have a price in your head that is your cashout point? Or even a partial cashout.
A lot harder in practice to cash out I know, if / when the price continues to rise
I sold about 15% when we hit $40k a few days ago
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 05, 2023, 06:50:48 AMQuote from: JohnDenver on December 04, 2023, 11:03:02 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on December 04, 2023, 10:06:33 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2022, 08:11:16 PMAs I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
It's not rocket science. As an investment, provide you use just a little bit of common sense it's hard to get much better risk adjusted returns as the boom / bust cycles have been so strong since its inception.
Do you have a price in your head that is your cashout point? Or even a partial cashout.
A lot harder in practice to cash out I know, if / when the price continues to rise
I sold about 15% when we hit $40k a few days ago
Would you not have held until the ETFs are approved in January? I'm in Altcoins (BTC a bit rich for me) so have about a years hold before I sell
Quote from: Mourne Red on December 05, 2023, 10:10:10 AMQuote from: Smokin Joe on December 05, 2023, 06:50:48 AMQuote from: JohnDenver on December 04, 2023, 11:03:02 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on December 04, 2023, 10:06:33 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2022, 08:11:16 PMAs I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
It's not rocket science. As an investment, provide you use just a little bit of common sense it's hard to get much better risk adjusted returns as the boom / bust cycles have been so strong since its inception.
Do you have a price in your head that is your cashout point? Or even a partial cashout.
A lot harder in practice to cash out I know, if / when the price continues to rise
I sold about 15% when we hit $40k a few days ago
Would you not have held until the ETFs are approved in January? I'm in Altcoins (BTC a bit rich for me) so have about a years hold before I sell
I've kept 85%!
I don't have any alts at all yet, but could see that changing in a few weeks / months as Bitcoin dominance probably gets near a peak for this cycle.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 05, 2023, 10:25:54 AMQuote from: Mourne Red on December 05, 2023, 10:10:10 AMQuote from: Smokin Joe on December 05, 2023, 06:50:48 AMQuote from: JohnDenver on December 04, 2023, 11:03:02 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on December 04, 2023, 10:06:33 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2022, 08:11:16 PMAs I said on this thread a few months ago, I wouldn't touch anything else right now, but I'm happy that Bitcoin is a great purchase at the current prices (sub $17k) to hold for a couple of years. I'm happy for this quote to be retrieved in 2 years.
This bear market has shown that there is Bitcoin and "crypto". Bitcoin is not crypto.
It's not rocket science. As an investment, provide you use just a little bit of common sense it's hard to get much better risk adjusted returns as the boom / bust cycles have been so strong since its inception.
Do you have a price in your head that is your cashout point? Or even a partial cashout.
A lot harder in practice to cash out I know, if / when the price continues to rise
I sold about 15% when we hit $40k a few days ago
Would you not have held until the ETFs are approved in January? I'm in Altcoins (BTC a bit rich for me) so have about a years hold before I sell
I've kept 85%!
I don't have any alts at all yet, but could see that changing in a few weeks / months as Bitcoin dominance probably gets near a peak for this cycle.
If Bitcoin holds at this level, then people will pour into those shitcoins. I look for stuff with a low market capitalisation. Look for absolute dung. Get in and Get out.
Gaming and AI coins seem to be the narrative for this coming bullrun - Few have already had some very big rises
I must admit, I dont have the first clue about trading in crypto and I'm a million miles behind when it comes to what is on the market now.
Can anyone provide a very high level overview on the current state of Bitcoin/cyrptocurrencies etc? I see a few posts there about Gaming and AI coins, but I've never even heard of those.
I feel like I'm missing out and could be making some money on side ;D
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 05, 2023, 03:29:39 PMI must admit, I dont have the first clue about trading in crypto and I'm a million miles behind when it comes to what is on the market now.
Can anyone provide a very high level overview on the current state of Bitcoin/cyrptocurrencies etc? I see a few posts there about Gaming and AI coins, but I've never even heard of those.
I feel like I'm missing out and could be making some money on side ;D
If you can get them to explain what drives the value fluctuations as well I would be interested in hearing that.......
Quote from: tbrick18 on December 05, 2023, 03:29:39 PMI must admit, I dont have the first clue about trading in crypto and I'm a million miles behind when it comes to what is on the market now.
Can anyone provide a very high level overview on the current state of Bitcoin/cyrptocurrencies etc? I see a few posts there about Gaming and AI coins, but I've never even heard of those.
I feel like I'm missing out and could be making some money on side ;D
The secret is that it absolutely doesn't matter. All the coins are absolute dung. They mean and do nothing. Complete made up shite. Anyone who says anything different is full of shite also.
If Bitcoin rises everything rises. If Bitcoin falls everything falls. The whole thing will tank in time but for now it looks like it's heading skywards.
Only put in what you can afford to lose. Look at the market cap. Lower the market cap the more chance it will 5x 10x.
Quote from: trailer on December 05, 2023, 04:10:38 PMQuote from: tbrick18 on December 05, 2023, 03:29:39 PMI must admit, I dont have the first clue about trading in crypto and I'm a million miles behind when it comes to what is on the market now.
Can anyone provide a very high level overview on the current state of Bitcoin/cyrptocurrencies etc? I see a few posts there about Gaming and AI coins, but I've never even heard of those.
I feel like I'm missing out and could be making some money on side ;D
The secret is that it absolutely doesn't matter. All the coins are absolute dung. They mean and do nothing. Complete made up shite. Anyone who says anything different is full of shite also.
If Bitcoin rises everything rises. If Bitcoin falls everything falls. The whole thing will tank in time but for now it looks like it's heading skywards.
Only put in what you can afford to lose. Look at the market cap. Lower the market cap the more chance it will 5x 10x.
While I agree most of it is shite, I only invested in coins whose tokenomics I liked. Not financial advice or to buy coins I have but couple of the coins I bought where Render/VRA.
Render I liked because it provides users who need extra GPU processing power from those who don't need it and pays those providing their GPU power with render coins. Mining Bitcoin uses a lot of GPU so that's why I bought it.
Then VRA is Proof of View so targets ad fraud and can tell if bots viewed something or real life people. Seeing as Ad fraud costs companies billions why I thought it.
As Trailer says though only put what you can afford to lose and pray to Mother Bitcoin to go to the moon so the money filters down.
Any experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
Quote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
Quote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 AMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
What 'resistance' would it be meeting at 37 or 38k, or why would it be struggling to go beyond that value?
Quote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:24:31 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 AMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
What 'resistance' would it be meeting at 37 or 38k, or why would it be struggling to go beyond that value?
I'm by no means an expert but as I understand it resistance at a certain level is investors thinking it will drop and then they sell or take profit and then the price actually drops. It's phycological.
Quote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:43:10 AMQuote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:24:31 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 AMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
What 'resistance' would it be meeting at 37 or 38k, or why would it be struggling to go beyond that value?
I'm by no means an expert but as I understand it resistance at a certain level is investors thinking it will drop and then they sell or take profit and then the price actually drops. It's phycological.
Would it be a case of manipulation? 'Big' investors selling off, it dropping value, buying in again at a lower value & repeating?
Quote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:44:25 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:43:10 AMQuote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:24:31 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 AMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
What 'resistance' would it be meeting at 37 or 38k, or why would it be struggling to go beyond that value?
I'm by no means an expert but as I understand it resistance at a certain level is investors thinking it will drop and then they sell or take profit and then the price actually drops. It's phycological.
Would it be a case of manipulation? 'Big' investors selling off, it dropping value, buying in again at a lower value & repeating?
Possibly. I'm by no means an expert on this. For the most part I actually think it is a load of nonsense and see this a bit of gamble. I haven't invested anything more than I am prepared to lose.
Quote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:49:08 AMQuote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:44:25 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:43:10 AMQuote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:24:31 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 AMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
What 'resistance' would it be meeting at 37 or 38k, or why would it be struggling to go beyond that value?
I'm by no means an expert but as I understand it resistance at a certain level is investors thinking it will drop and then they sell or take profit and then the price actually drops. It's phycological.
Would it be a case of manipulation? 'Big' investors selling off, it dropping value, buying in again at a lower value & repeating?
Possibly. I'm by no means an expert on this. For the most part I actually think it is a load of nonsense and see this a bit of gamble. I haven't invested anything more than I am prepared to lose.
It is a load of nonsense but as long as there are millions of people prepared to trade in something with perceived value then there is potentially money to be made (and lost). Not much of a gambler myself so I'll have to make do with the current interest rates on savings.
Quote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 09:24:31 AMQuote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 09:21:26 AMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
It is meeting resistance at £37k £38k alright. I bought more this morning. It's up around 100% this past year.
What 'resistance' would it be meeting at 37 or 38k, or why would it be struggling to go beyond that value?
That's its previous low point from when it spiked. Then 42k is the most recent low point from when it spiked to 48k.
Need it to settle above the 42k mark this week and then that should be good for it to make its next leg up
Quote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
Yeah, I wouldn't be buying now. It's been about 3 months of pretty straight up price increases, so I would expect a consolidation for a while. I see a decent chance it drops to $32k-ish within the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Of course it continue to go straight up, but I don't think that's the most likely outcome given it's run up in advance of the spot ETF announcement.
I'm still very confident of it going much higher by the end of 2025 (based on its cycle history), but I could see a short term cool off.
I laugh when I hear of all these predictions about the future price when the truth is nobody has a clue what will happen. Its a game for gamblers and speculators with a few spare quid but you would have to be prepared to lose it all.
Quote from: yellowcard on January 15, 2024, 02:20:06 PMI laugh when I hear of all these predictions about the future price when the truth is nobody has a clue what will happen. Its a game for gamblers and speculators with a few spare quid but you would have to be prepared to lose it all.
Disagree about having no clue what will happen. There is a very clear 4 year cycle. That's why I was was buying in October and November 2022. Short terms price movements are very volatile but you can't see this image and say that nobody has a clue what will happen
https://twitter.com/rektcapital/status/1738252904564203793/photo/1
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 15, 2024, 03:09:51 PMQuote from: yellowcard on January 15, 2024, 02:20:06 PMI laugh when I hear of all these predictions about the future price when the truth is nobody has a clue what will happen. Its a game for gamblers and speculators with a few spare quid but you would have to be prepared to lose it all.
Disagree about having no clue what will happen. There is a very clear 4 year cycle. That's why I was was buying in October and November 2022. Short terms price movements are very volatile but you can't see this image and say that nobody has a clue what will happen
https://twitter.com/rektcapital/status/1738252904564203793/photo/1
It's based of reading patterns in the candles and nothing else. No real world data.
Quote from: trailer on January 15, 2024, 03:17:46 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 15, 2024, 03:09:51 PMQuote from: yellowcard on January 15, 2024, 02:20:06 PMI laugh when I hear of all these predictions about the future price when the truth is nobody has a clue what will happen. Its a game for gamblers and speculators with a few spare quid but you would have to be prepared to lose it all.
Disagree about having no clue what will happen. There is a very clear 4 year cycle. That's why I was was buying in October and November 2022. Short terms price movements are very volatile but you can't see this image and say that nobody has a clue what will happen
https://twitter.com/rektcapital/status/1738252904564203793/photo/1
It's based of reading patterns in the candles and nothing else. No real world data.
Trading using candles, charts, past cycles and an understanding of where global liquidity and wider economic conditions are at. Absolutely
That's exactly what my aim is.
I buy Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency to make a profit; try to buy at a price that is lower than I will sell at.
It's not as unpredictable as the mainstream media make it out to be.
Anyone experience crypto theft on here or know of anyone got robbed. Worked with a lad that was big into it but had his account emptied last May/June. Poor fella, got the impression it was very significant sum and he was dreading telling TOH. Havn't seen him since so don't know how he got on trying to recover it or what compensation he might get.
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 15, 2024, 03:32:36 PMAnyone experience crypto theft on here or know of anyone got robbed. Worked with a lad that was big into it but had his account emptied last May/June. Poor fella, got the impression it was very significant sum and he was dreading telling TOH. Havn't seen him since so don't know how he got on trying to recover it or what compensation he might get.
Sounds like the wife killed him once he told her
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 15, 2024, 03:32:36 PMAnyone experience crypto theft on here or know of anyone got robbed. Worked with a lad that was big into it but had his account emptied last May/June. Poor fella, got the impression it was very significant sum and he was dreading telling TOH. Havn't seen him since so don't know how he got on trying to recover it or what compensation he might get.
There is absolutely no chance of compensation or recovering it unless whoever stole it takes pity on him and returns it. Its one of reasons why I wouldn't go near it!
Quote from: toby47 on January 15, 2024, 03:40:24 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 15, 2024, 03:32:36 PMAnyone experience crypto theft on here or know of anyone got robbed. Worked with a lad that was big into it but had his account emptied last May/June. Poor fella, got the impression it was very significant sum and he was dreading telling TOH. Havn't seen him since so don't know how he got on trying to recover it or what compensation he might get.
Sounds like the wife killed him once he told her
:D :D . Felt bad for him, really nice bloke. In fairness I think they'll be ok. Sounds like she has a really good job and he had been doing well in his trading. Had bought a brand new ID.5 outright from his previous winnings, if you believe all he said.
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 15, 2024, 03:42:21 PMQuote from: Look-Up! on January 15, 2024, 03:32:36 PMAnyone experience crypto theft on here or know of anyone got robbed. Worked with a lad that was big into it but had his account emptied last May/June. Poor fella, got the impression it was very significant sum and he was dreading telling TOH. Havn't seen him since so don't know how he got on trying to recover it or what compensation he might get.
There is absolutely no chance of compensation or recovering it unless whoever stole it takes pity on him and returns it. Its one of reasons why I wouldn't go near it!
Even if it's down to exchange negligence? Surely they'll have to tighten up on that at some stage.
To the moon. Huge surge over this past week. Hitting the highs of Apr 21. Why didn't I buy more of this f**king nonsense? :(
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:21:03 AMTo the moon. Huge surge over this past week. Hitting the highs of Apr 21. Why didn't I buy more of this f**king nonsense? :(
Because it is nonsense. How much would you realistically put into it? £1000 or so? You will pay huge fees to sell it off and end up with a few hundred pound profit if you're lucky max, and risk your £1000?
Your fees aren't that bad. I also think it's nonsense but put in 2k a couple of years ago and made a grand in a month. The fees were negligible enough.
(I wouldn't touch it any more as it's too volatile and would put your head away)
Quote from: trailer on February 14, 2024, 11:21:03 AMTo the moon. Huge surge over this past week. Hitting the highs of Apr 21. Why didn't I buy more of this f**king nonsense? :(
Next Bitcoin halving is in April. Traditionally the price of Bitcoin goes up substantially in the year after and then naturally dumps again!. It's knowing when to sell at the top which the average investor will not know unless they get lucky of course.
https://bitpay.com/blog/analyzing-past-btc-halvings/
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 15, 2024, 01:50:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
Yeah, I wouldn't be buying now. It's been about 3 months of pretty straight up price increases, so I would expect a consolidation for a while. I see a decent chance it drops to $32k-ish within the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Of course it continue to go straight up, but I don't think that's the most likely outcome given it's run up in advance of the spot ETF announcement.
I'm still very confident of it going much higher by the end of 2025 (based on its cycle history), but I could see a short term cool off.
Still going up - fairly rapidly recently. Any reasons why?
I use it mostly for euro exchanges, free money lately, can't go on much longer.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2024, 12:18:56 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 15, 2024, 01:50:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
Yeah, I wouldn't be buying now. It's been about 3 months of pretty straight up price increases, so I would expect a consolidation for a while. I see a decent chance it drops to $32k-ish within the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Of course it continue to go straight up, but I don't think that's the most likely outcome given it's run up in advance of the spot ETF announcement.
I'm still very confident of it going much higher by the end of 2025 (based on its cycle history), but I could see a short term cool off.
Still going up - fairly rapidly recently. Any reasons why?
I use it mostly for euro exchanges, free money lately, can't go on much longer.
Volume of it since ETFs were approved has been ridiculous, after Greyscale stopped dumping it the price was always going to rise.
Nvidia had massive profits a few days ago and because a lot of Bitcoin mining is done by GPUs it's benefited from those profits. Also Old Timers (Stock markets) are at their highest levels since the 2008 crash means that money is flowing out into other ventures.
Charts aren't good for the end of 2025 so if anyone's Holding any crypto imo I'd be wanting to sell everything latest next June
Quote from: Mourne Red on February 27, 2024, 09:54:40 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2024, 12:18:56 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 15, 2024, 01:50:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
Yeah, I wouldn't be buying now. It's been about 3 months of pretty straight up price increases, so I would expect a consolidation for a while. I see a decent chance it drops to $32k-ish within the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Of course it continue to go straight up, but I don't think that's the most likely outcome given it's run up in advance of the spot ETF announcement.
I'm still very confident of it going much higher by the end of 2025 (based on its cycle history), but I could see a short term cool off.
Still going up - fairly rapidly recently. Any reasons why?
I use it mostly for euro exchanges, free money lately, can't go on much longer.
Volume of it since ETFs were approved has been ridiculous, after Greyscale stopped dumping it the price was always going to rise.
Nvidia had massive profits a few days ago and because a lot of Bitcoin mining is done by GPUs it's benefited from those profits. Also Old Timers (Stock markets) are at their highest levels since the 2008 crash means that money is flowing out into other ventures.
Charts aren't good for the end of 2025 so if anyone's Holding any crypto imo I'd be wanting to sell everything latest next June
Not sure I'd be paying too much attention to 20+ month forecasts for something as volatile as Crypto
Quote from: Franko on February 28, 2024, 12:03:41 AMQuote from: Mourne Red on February 27, 2024, 09:54:40 PMQuote from: bennydorano on February 27, 2024, 12:18:56 PMQuote from: Smokin Joe on January 15, 2024, 01:50:28 PMQuote from: bennydorano on January 15, 2024, 09:11:33 AMAny experts out there think Bitcoin has topped out again? That was advice I was getting over the weekend
Yeah, I wouldn't be buying now. It's been about 3 months of pretty straight up price increases, so I would expect a consolidation for a while. I see a decent chance it drops to $32k-ish within the next 6 or 8 weeks.
Of course it continue to go straight up, but I don't think that's the most likely outcome given it's run up in advance of the spot ETF announcement.
I'm still very confident of it going much higher by the end of 2025 (based on its cycle history), but I could see a short term cool off.
Still going up - fairly rapidly recently. Any reasons why?
I use it mostly for euro exchanges, free money lately, can't go on much longer.
Volume of it since ETFs were approved has been ridiculous, after Greyscale stopped dumping it the price was always going to rise.
Nvidia had massive profits a few days ago and because a lot of Bitcoin mining is done by GPUs it's benefited from those profits. Also Old Timers (Stock markets) are at their highest levels since the 2008 crash means that money is flowing out into other ventures.
Charts aren't good for the end of 2025 so if anyone's Holding any crypto imo I'd be wanting to sell everything latest next June
Not sure I'd be paying too much attention to 20+ month forecasts for something as volatile as Crypto
Just as well those charts are for market/economy as a whole.. US probably in a recession by End of 2025 which will affect everything (crypto included)
Bought a bit more a few weeks ago. Dunno what to do.. was gonna hold on for at least 6 months but could take a tidy profit.
Bitcoin through the 60k barrier and nearly hit 61k within a minute.. up nearly $4k today
131.57% increase past 6 months :o
BBC running a Bitcoin rise story, that's a sign to get out.
Quote from: Mourne Red on February 28, 2024, 01:27:08 PMBitcoin through the 60k barrier and nearly hit 61k within a minute.. up nearly $4k today
Fecking sold a fair bit of it the other day. Typical.
It'll drop soon though i reckon.
$7.5 billion inflows into Bitcoin in the last 24 hours. It's crazy at the minute. It normally does this after the halving and not before it. Once it goes above previous ATH it generally doesn't go much below it when it drops.
I don't have much BTC but holding a fair bag of QNT, MONG and TRIAS. They haven't really moved yet but hopefully the alt coins will start a bit of a rally soon off the back of BTC rising. Would be nice to cash out before the summer holidays.
Now wouldn't be the time to be buying Bitcoin. This is when MSM starts to report the rise and everyone pours in. Buy it when people are selling it and sell it when people are buying it.
Some of those other shit coins might be worth a small punt. I have bit of DOGE so hoping that keeps going north. Nearly doubled this last few days. Need Elon to X about it.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 28, 2024, 04:01:11 PMBBC running a Bitcoin rise story, that's a sign to get out.
Not yet, Coinbase is only ranked something like 100 in most popular apps in the US. It gets to almost number 1 at the peak. Normal Joe Public isn't in to crypto yet this cycle. The cycle will see us going up a good bit more. There'll most likely be a pull back at some stage (even I'm surprised it's been straight up) but $62k isn't where we are going to stop this cycle.
Great to see these gains. I'm in heavy on Cardano and have quite a few NFTs and meme coins and alt coins in the Cardano ecosystem.
Sold off a small amount today and took some well earned gains..and longer overdue might I add. The rise in the price of bitcoin generally filters down through other coins so expecting a big increase again.
Not that I'm that much into cryptocurrency but why purchase anything other than bitcoin?
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2024, 05:33:29 PMNot that I'm that much into cryptocurrency but why purchase anything other than bitcoin?
A conclusion I came to a while back, I had 6 or 7 on the go, sold them off and consolidated into Bitcoin & Ethereum. I don't know my arse from my elbow in the Cryptoverse tho.
Quote from: bennydorano on March 03, 2024, 06:33:27 PMQuote from: Main Street on March 03, 2024, 05:33:29 PMNot that I'm that much into cryptocurrency but why purchase anything other than bitcoin?
A conclusion I came to a while back, I had 6 or 7 on the go, sold them off and consolidated into Bitcoin & Ethereum. I don't know my arse from my elbow in the Cryptoverse tho.
I have some DOGE which has doubled in value this past week. And then Bitcoin.
Are we looking at $100k Bitcoin? We're at $65k at the minute.
New ATH for Bitcoin - $69k
I had some btc, cashed it all in yesterday. Lucky enough to double my investment but took about 2 years I think. I don't have the faith in it that I maybe once had so doubt I'll go back into it.
Quote from: Itchy on March 06, 2024, 06:34:34 PMI had some btc, cashed it all in yesterday. Lucky enough to double my investment but took about 2 years I think. I don't have the faith in it that I maybe once had so doubt I'll go back into it.
I fear this might be a mistake on your behalf. It could double again before April.
Quote from: trailer on March 06, 2024, 06:51:32 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 06, 2024, 06:34:34 PMI had some btc, cashed it all in yesterday. Lucky enough to double my investment but took about 2 years I think. I don't have the faith in it that I maybe once had so doubt I'll go back into it.
I fear this might be a mistake on your behalf. It could double again before April.
Maybe it will but I did ok and am content with how I did
You'll never buy at the bottom nor sell at the top
That's all I've got 😀
Quote from: Itchy on March 06, 2024, 06:52:20 PMQuote from: trailer on March 06, 2024, 06:51:32 PMQuote from: Itchy on March 06, 2024, 06:34:34 PMI had some btc, cashed it all in yesterday. Lucky enough to double my investment but took about 2 years I think. I don't have the faith in it that I maybe once had so doubt I'll go back into it.
I fear this might be a mistake on your behalf. It could double again before April.
Maybe it will but I did ok and am content with how I did
Fair play.
You have to set a threshold for these things. If you don't you will think things will go up forever and the bubble will burst. Only way to do it.
I've a mate who invests in Bitcoin for the real longterm, he's convinced come back in 10 years time and it could be near 1m per btc.
Quote from: bennydorano on March 06, 2024, 07:19:44 PMI've a mate who invests in Bitcoin for the real longterm, he's convinced conme back in 10 years time and it could be near 1m per btc.
I agree. It's digital gold.
More action this am. ATH yet again.
I've looked at the charts for the price of Etherium and Bitcoin and they're both the same shape. Reminds me of another chart I've been looking at lately, stock in the company I work for. The Dow and the S&P 500 are all following similar trends. Assets are on a bit of a surge, even bubbly stuff like Crypto that has no intrinsic value.
If I were youse boys I'd get out while you're ahead, or at least get all your investment back. It's not a "mistake" to cut out early if you've got your money made. If you've already got your money back then you may play away with what's still invested.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2024, 05:31:30 AMI've looked at the charts for the price of Etherium and Bitcoin and they're both the same shape. Reminds me of another chart I've been looking at lately, stock in the company I work for. The Dow and the S&P 500 are all following similar trends. Assets are on a bit of a surge, even bubbly stuff like Crypto that has no intrinsic value.
If I were youse boys I'd get out while you're ahead, or at least get all your investment back. It's not a "mistake" to cut out early if you've got your money made. If you've already got your money back then you may play away with what's still invested.
I agree. Everything rises and falls in Crypto based on Bitcoin, which as you say means it worthless. Pure bubble. Probably got a bit to go to get to the top yet, but I have started to think about taking my stake out and gambling with the profit.
Why would you gamble with the profit? Why not just take it out and keep it? Or invest it?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2024, 10:08:06 PMWhy would you gamble with the profit? Why not just take it out and keep it? Or invest it?
Bull run is only starting, Halving hasn't happened yet, Ethereum ETF approval coming later this year, interest rates not cut yet.. His Profit could 10-20x just in the safer large cap coins
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 12, 2024, 10:08:06 PMWhy would you gamble with the profit? Why not just take it out and keep it? Or invest it?
It's all about the 'sweat' you hear the ones at work talking about. No different to putting a yankee on @ Cheltenham
El Fabilio probably saves the bookies today.