Lads and Ladies, i have started this Thread to try to answer genuine queries dealing with our National Games on Rules/Regulations if i can. I am a Snr Referee, i will not Bull Shit or will not answer any Ridiculous Scenarios, lets have Genuine situations or Queries were you believe my Colleagues are in the wrong or there is some doubt, Please respect the Thread and lets see how it progresses. I will not be on Everyday, as it would be impossible as correct answers may take time to construct. I hopefully will be the voice of those that you inflect most criticism.
If the ball goes out for a sideline ball and an opposition player disagrees with the decision can the ball be advanced 10 yards up the line?
also is there an advantege rule?
QuoteIf the ball goes out for a sideline ball and an opposition player disagrees with the decision can the ball be advanced 10 yards up the line?
I believe he can yes - under the rule for Dissent
Quotealso is there an advantege rule?
It is not at the referee's discretion to allow an advatage in football or hurling
"It is not at the referee's discretion to allow an advatage in football or hurling"
Serious?
Yes - that's what we were told when I did my Referee's course
Rules of Control
Rule 1.2 Duties of the Referee
(i) To control the game in accordance with the Playing Rules - if there is a foul, the referee has to stop play and award a free kick
You might want to spell your name correctly ;)
Gabriel Hurl,
Your position on the Advantage Rule is incorrect, if you read the rules properly you will see what i mean, i am not acting the smart arse, there is no rule titled Advantage rule, however in the Rules of Football and hurling, 4.36 in football rule will clarify it for you. Your answer with the awarding a 10 yrds further up the line is also incorrect for dissent, the player can be cautioned, you cannot move the ball a further 10yrds up the line.
I would suggest that you read the book in more detail Gabriel, even 1.2?
Is there an official copy of the rules of football available online? Some might think it pedantic but I'd find it interesting.
I know you said no stupid scenarios but I have two q's
1. Right, a player cannot hand pass the ball to the bet, but if it gets a slight deflection, will it be counted?
2. Can someone hand pass the ball to themselves, ie over someone's head?
4.36 only deals with adavatage being played with regards to technical fouls ;) ;)
A bit of clarification is required on the sideline thing
Does rule 2.9 not state "When a team plays the ball over the side-line,a free kick from the hand(s) shall be awarded to the opposing team from the place where the ball crossed the side-line."?
and Rule 6.2 states "To show dissent with the referee's decision to award a free kick to the opposing team. PENALTY - The free kick already awarded shall be taken 13m more advantageous than the place of original kick - up to opponents' 13m line"
Elias, PM me with your email address and I'll send you a PDF copy
Cheers GH, got that fine, some bed time reading there all right. I'll never need a GAA pundit again :D
Quote from: The Claw on November 17, 2006, 07:26:42 PM
I know you said no stupid scenarios but I have two q's
1. Right, a player cannot hand pass the ball to the bet, but if it gets a slight deflection, will it be counted?
2. Can someone hand pass the ball to themselves, ie over someone's head?
My understanding would be that in scenario 1. the goal would stand - a bit like the scenario in soccer where an indirect free kick is deflected in, and in 2. you can hand pass the ball to yourself IF it bounces, but you can not take it on the full! :)
I have some questions on the handpass- it was explained to me before that a clean strike of the ball is required for a handpass, I have found that if I use the open hand for the pass I sometimes get called for a throw ball - can you clarify what actually constitutes the hand pass. Also any additional info on the one handed hand pass, and the rule on the hand pass when the ball and player are on the ground, I have seen the same thing allowed and sometimes called as a foul.
Thanks in advance
It is only possible to handpass a ball with an open hand (as opposed to a closed fist for a fist pass), but the hand holding the ball must remain stationary and there should be a clear striking action. It is also possible to fist the ball while on the ground and even strike the ball ON the ground with your hand, as long as clean possession had been won beforehand but more often than not referees will blow this one up.
It is also possible to fist the ball with the same hand the ball was in, also as long as there is a clear striking action.
Official line
I take it you can only advance the ball if its a free, and a sideline ball isnt a free and there is no advantage rule. I think this tells its own story, we the great unwashed dont know the rules correctly. we think we do but we dont!!!
i think this thread could be a brillient one if it isnt abused, so guys take it easy
What is the rule in football on playing the ball on the ground. I was told that its ok for a player laying on thr ground to palm it away from himself but I've also seen it blown for a free. This is something even the refs aren't sure about.
Official Line you are very welcome. Lets see how you would deal with this interpretation?
1) Forward hits marker off the ball.
2) referee awards free kick to attacking team still unaware of incident. Umpire raises flag and walks 2 yards onto field. Opposition stops.
3) Unmarked Forward runs for quick free kick slots the goal past umpire and Goalkeeper (umpire still on field of play)
4) Referee consults with umpire sends goalscorer off, then allows goal and 14 man team wins by 3 points.
Were the rules correctly applied here or what should have happened differently, to protect a team that dosent strike?
I have a quick question that despite all the reading of the rule book I have been doing recently for this project I cant find an answer to. A team is awarded a free kick, the player opts to take it from his hands, the player then kicks the ball and catches it again. In essence the player has merely soloed it, is this legal and if so can a player kick a ball say 10 yards, catch it again before bouncing and be allowed to take the free kick again? Im not trying to be smart with this, this is something I have wondered about.
I was just wonderin as I got blew up for this the other day are u allowed to handpass the ball behind yourself a la brian o'driscoll but with a clear striking action? I mean to sort of face one way and go to hand pass then turn your hand around and flick it behind yourself?
What haoppens if the ball bounces on top of the post?
Quote from: Offical Line on November 17, 2006, 07:15:55 PM
Gabriel Hurl,
Your position on the Advantage Rule is incorrect, if you read the rules properly you will see what i mean, i am not acting the smart arse, there is no rule titled Advantage rule, however in the Rules of Football and hurling, 4.36 in football rule will clarify it for you. Your answer with the awarding a 10 yrds further up the line is also incorrect for dissent, the player can be cautioned, you cannot move the ball a further 10yrds up the line.
I would suggest that you read the book in more detail Gabriel, even 1.2?
Offical Line, I believe you are incorrect about being able to advance the ball from a side line for dissent. We had this discussion with Pat Mc Eneany last year and he in turn, had discussed it previously at the National referee's seminar. You CAN move the ball 13m for dissent even when it's a sideline ball. You CAN'T move it straight up the line; you must move it infield in a direct line towards the goals. It actually surprised me but it's true.
It's not called an advantage rule in Gaelic so as not to confuse it with Soccer and Rugby. In both of those sports the referee can play "advantage" with the option of bringing play back if it doesn't turn into an genuine advantage. In Gaelic we can't bring play back. If it doesn't turn into an advantage then it's tough luck as they say.
Quote from: Guillem2 on November 18, 2006, 07:57:50 AM
What is the rule in football on playing the ball on the ground. I was told that its ok for a player laying on thr ground to palm it away from himself but I've also seen it blown for a free. This is something even the refs aren't sure about.
You can only play the ball on the ground with your hand, if you had position of the ball and fell to the ground. If the ball comes loose as you fall you can plam the ball away from you on the ground and can even score by doing this.
Quote from: oneillcup2007 on November 18, 2006, 10:37:55 AM
Official Line you are very welcome. Lets see how you would deal with this interpretation?
1) Forward hits marker off the ball.
2) referee awards free kick to attacking team still unaware of incident. Umpire raises flag and walks 2 yards onto field. Opposition stops.
3) Unmarked Forward runs for quick free kick slots the goal past umpire and Goalkeeper (umpire still on field of play)
4) Referee consults with umpire sends goalscorer off, then allows goal and 14 man team wins by 3 points.
Were the rules correctly applied here or what should have happened differently, to protect a team that dosent strike?
The goal must be disallowed and play should be re-started from the position of the incident with a hop ball. The bottom line is that, nothing that happened after that incident, is valid play until the hop ball re-starts play (unless off course if some else struck during that time).
Its a totally unique situation which was well documented at the time.
Th referee had stopped play to award a free kick to the attacking team. The kick was take quickly to the now unmarked forward who scored. There is no doubt that the Umpire was too far forward because a defender near clattred him trying to get back. I think it was a horrendous error of judgement, but I also think it is an interesting case study and an amusing one on hindsight. The attacker(forward) as you may well have guessed was an old school teacher of your own. The defender a man who would have liked to serve you beer.
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on November 18, 2006, 01:01:13 PM
QuoteI was just wonderin as I got blew up for this the other day are u allowed to handpass the ball behind yourself a la brian o'driscoll but with a clear striking action? I mean to sort of face one way and go to hand pass then turn your hand around and flick it behind yourself?
It sounds legal, did you try and get clarifcation from the referee why it was not legal?
No mac eoghain I didnt try and gain clarification as such, he seemed to be in no mood to discuss after what I said to him. ;)
Sorry Lads been away on duty, i think the scenarios are excellent that are comming in, and some great topics of discussion, In Responce to Oakleaf, i did not state you could move the ball further up the line if read my reply correctly, so i believe you have accused my in the wrong, i accept your apology.
This as stated can be an excellent thread , don,t abuse it lads we have have different interpretations- and at times are Rules are not Clear and Concise which leads to aggravation to say the least, however we can all learn from the scenarios placed here and help each other. I started this tread for everyone to contribute and its Great to See..
Heres one!!
Player taking the kick out, mis-kicks from edge of small rectangle by the way(It was a wide ball), ball travels about 8mtrs and his corner back comes in takes picks up the Ball and clears in down field? What should be the Resulting Action of the REFEREE?
Will try to come in as often as possible,and contribute KEEP IT UP!
In a kickout scenario If a goalkeeper kicks the ball off his own post can he take the rebound and play on?
Mac Eoghain, what do you base that answer on? How does he kick the ball off his own post? (Seems vitually impossible to me-However who says ive seen it all!) Mr oneillcup2007!
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on November 19, 2006, 10:23:35 AM
QuotePlayer taking the kick out, mis-kicks from edge of small rectangle by the way(It was a wide ball), ball travels about 8mtrs and his corner back comes in takes picks up the Ball and clears in down field? What should be the Resulting Action of the REFEREE?
Surely its cancel the kick out and throw the ball up at the edge of the large rectangle.
Yeah thats correct, however if the keeper had kicked it only 13m and the ball had stayed inside the 21 and no one was inside the 21 at the moment he kicked it, then if the corner back comes in and picks it up it is play on.
Now here's an interesting one, what is everyone's opinions on the "rolling ball"?
You sure? Thought that a defender receiving the ball inside the 21, whether he was there before the ball was kicked or not, was always a hop ball on 21.
No such thing as lifting a rolling ball. Foot must ALWAYS be under the ball for a legal pick up.
My understanding was that he can kick the ball on the ground again, after fluffing a kick out, but cant lift the ball - same as in hurling. The defending team receiving the ball the ball inside the 21 would be a hop ball on 21
MacE why would anyone kick a ball off their own post anyway. This seems a very stupid question and the fact that most teams have probems putting the ball between the posts, never mind hitting the posts, that this might seem problematic.
Quote from: Cloc Mor on November 19, 2006, 01:44:05 PM
You sure? Thought that a defender receiving the ball inside the 21, whether he was there before the ball was kicked or not, was always a hop ball on 21.
No such thing as lifting a rolling ball. Foot must ALWAYS be under the ball for a legal pick up.
Nope as long as the ball traveled 13m and all other players were outside 21 at the time of the kick it is play on.
So the ball can be played 13m to the wing and still be inside the 21 and its ok?
Sorry, McE. Its was a really stupid question. Obviously not from someone who knows the rules. I could surmise about the origins about his birth, but wouldn't want to offend anyone.
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on November 18, 2006, 01:22:14 PM
However, the offence to which Oakleaf refers falls under the Dissent Rules, which state:
Rule 6.2
To show dissent with the referee's decision to award a free kick to the opposing team.
<b>PENALTY - The free kick already awarded shall be taken 13m more advantageous than the place of original kick - up to opponents' 13m line.</b>
THEREFORE, in the case of Dissent the ball CANNOT be moved 13m.
You're right that if someone questions the referee that he can't move it forward. The point I was trying to make (rather badly) is that there's more than one type of dissent. If I ask a player to move back from a sideline and they don't then that's dissent in my book and I'll move the ball forward 13m (esentially because they are interferring with the kick being taken. If they failed to move the next time I would book them for dissent. You're quite right about the specific question that was asked. The point I'd like to make is that most people (especially players) are of the opinion that you can't ever move a sideline forward 13m, which is not the case.
I take it from the gist of your response that you are are referee. If the players you referee are as confused as me about your interpretation of the rules, God help you.
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on November 18, 2006, 01:55:42 PM
Quote
1) Forward hits marker off the ball.
2) referee awards free kick to attacking team still unaware of incident. Umpire raises flag and walks 2 yards onto field. Opposition stops.
3) Unmarked Forward runs for quick free kick slots the goal past umpire and Goalkeeper (umpire still on field of play)
4) Referee consults with umpire sends goalscorer off, then allows goal and 14 man team wins by 3 points.
Were the rules correctly applied here or what should have happened differently, to protect a team that dosent strike?
Many rules in play here, I'm not going to bore you with the details, but:
(1) The umpire should not have entered the field of play. He must move along the line and signal with his hand up for the referee's attention.
(2) As the referee was unaware of the incident he should not stop play until there is a break in play, in this case it was when the score was taken. The fact that the defenders stopped defending is irrelevant, we are taught from a young age to play until the whistle.
(3) Sending the goalscorer off, no problem there.
(4) He should allow the goal as play had not been stopped.
I disagree with point 4 because according to the post, the play had been stopped after the incident but was re-started again before the umpire was able to get the referee's attention. We had this exact situation in Derry a couple of years ago (except that a point resulted) and our referees co-ordinator got clarification from Croke Park as to what should have been the outcome. They said, that because play had been stopped after the incident but had been re-started (when it shouldn't have been) then the goal should not have stood.
Quote from: Cloc Mor on November 19, 2006, 08:28:43 PM
I take it from the gist of your response that you are are referee. If the players you referee are as confused as me about your interpretation of the rules, God help you.
Yes, I am a referee. There's no doubt about it there are places where the rules are open to interpretation. hardly anybody gets 100% in the National referee's exam so what would that tell you!
Quote from: Cloc Mor on November 19, 2006, 04:55:58 PM
So the ball can be played 13m to the wing and still be inside the 21 and its ok?
Yep. As long as it travells 13m and everybody was outside the 20m line when the kick was taken.
So,you are telling me that a player can receive the ball inside the 14yard line as long as he was 14 yards away when the ball was kicked.
Quote from: Cloc Mor on November 19, 2006, 08:51:49 PM
So,you are telling me that a player can receive the ball inside the 14yard line as long as he was 14 yards away when the ball was kicked.
What I'm saying is that provided the ball travels 13m (in any direction) and that the player was outside the 20m line when the ball was kicked then yes, they can pick it up (even it goes to the corner flag, which I seen happen in a Mac Rory cup match a few years back, because of the wind). This rule definitely surprises a lot of people but its true.
Another weird one. I can set the ball up on the 20m line for a kick out and begin to dribble it out the field provided I don't pick it up. I could do that the length of the field if I want. I wouldn't recommend it of course! You probably wouldn't get very far ;)
QuoteIt is also possible to fist the ball with the same hand the ball was in, also as long as there is a clear striking action.
Is that true?? I remember being taught that it had to be a two-handed operation
Just popping in, the interest is excellent, Oakleaf, its great to see another referee in to help out, i actually seen that scenario with the kick out in a game in Dublin i officiated at just recently.
Lads it just highlights how little knowledge is out there with our National Game Rules! ???
here one that happened to us recently,
What constitutes a free on the goalkeeper in a game a high ball was launched into our square the keeper went up to catch it at the same time the corner forward ran into the square and crashed into the keeper as he was about to hold the ball the ball went into the net the ref who was standing just inside the fifty give the goal without consulting with his umpire who said it was a foul but he could do nothing as the ref give the goal.
Mac.
The keeper went up to catch the ball and the coner forward shouldered him in the midrift,the umpire said to both the second umpire and goalkeeper.
I have a question
When a player is awarded a free is he/she allowed to hop and or solo the ball before he takes the free?
I see players at all ages hopping the ball before they take a free. However some players might take a small solo to get a feel for the ball.
We were playing a match last year and a player took a solo before kicking a free and a free was awarded against him.
This has lead me to believe that you cant solo the ball when about to take a free but many players get away with it.
clarification needed!
Mac E.
He was a neutral and also a respected ulster referee.
Mac Eoghain
This is the question I was trying (badly) to ask earlier in the thread. If its not illegal to solo the ball whats the difference as far as the rule book is concerned in a player catching his own miskick? My understanding was once a free kick was kicked from the hand it was deemed taken unless the referee had been imformed the kick was to be taken from the ground.
David
Quote from: Mac Eoghain on November 20, 2006, 02:38:11 PM
Abbeysider - I don't think there is any specific guidance on this, I remember a few years back there was instruction not to allow players to bounce or solo the ball but as far as I could pick up this is now obsolete. The rules don't specify any such instruction and the practice is widespread so I would love to know which rule or piece of guidance a ref was using that would disallow such a thing. Unless he was taking the 'collecting your own free kick' a bit too far.
On a lighter note regarding the above problem...
Last year one of the lads was taking a free kick from the mid-field area. The same fella plays a little rugby;
Instead of kicking a pass he takes a rugby "penalty" and "runs" it.
In effect he took a solo to himself and kept running. Everyone erupted with laughter and even the ref was nearly on his knees in stitches!
:D :D :D :D :D :D
The game took nearly 5 minutes to resume when everyone gathered themselves again. Priceless stuff.
When a player is being tackled/ raped by 3 or more opponents and is on the ground, is it in the rules that he can punch the ball on the ground to get it out of the pile up? i remember hearing a few years ago that you could but any ref seems to blow it up!
That wasnt my understanding but I have asked a number of inter county referees that I have been interviewing recently and have gotten both answers so I guess its down to the referee in charge
Quote from: David McKeown on November 20, 2006, 02:45:28 PM
Mac Eoghain
This is the question I was trying (badly) to ask earlier in the thread. If its not illegal to solo the ball whats the difference as far as the rule book is concerned in a player catching his own miskick? My understanding was once a free kick was kicked from the hand it was deemed taken unless the referee had been imformed the kick was to be taken from the ground.
David
Rule 4.22(i) To play the ball again after taking a free kick/penalty/side-line kick before another player has touched it, unless the ball rebounds off the goal-posts/crossbar. (i) Cancel free kick or side-line kick.
(ii) Throw in the ball where the foul occurred except as provided under EXCEPTION (v) of Rule 2.2
You can't kick the ball to yourself from a free (even if you miskick it). A free is defined by the word "kick" and the free is taken once the free takers toe meets the ball, so therefore you can hop the ball before a free kick.
On another note, if an event occurs during a game and no rule covers it then the event is deemed to be outside the rules.
There are a number of clarifications etc issued by central council and while they are hard to come by most county boards should have them all collated.
I have one for all you Referees,
Man is soloing the ball within the rules of course, now he has just hopped the ball(Bounced it!) and then he drop kicks as seen on many an occasion?
Does this constitute a double bounce, as the ball makes contact twice in a row with the ground, before it makes contact with the foot, now don,t all rush in. Think about it, and then think about it again?
I don't think it is a double bounce as he did not touch the ball with his hands after the second bounce.
Quote from: Queenie on November 21, 2006, 12:56:12 PM
I have one for all you Referees,
Man is soloing the ball within the rules of course, now he has just hopped the ball(Bounced it!) and then he drop kicks as seen on many an occasion?
Does this constitute a double bounce, as the ball makes contact twice in a row with the ground, before it makes contact with the foot, now don,t all rush in. Think about it, and then think about it again?
A "drop kick" is a kick and therefore legal.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 21, 2006, 01:24:15 PM
I don't think it is a double bounce as he did not touch the ball with his hands after the second bounce.
Actually when you double bounce the foul occurs as you bounce the ball for the second time. Many players think that if you bounce the ball the second time and don't take it into your hands again, then that's alright. I'm afraid it isn't. If you bounce the ball the second time, it doesn't matter if you take it into your hands again or not, it's still a double bounce.
Now to the original question. I wouldn't blow someone up for a double bounce when they drop kick the ball. By the letter of the law if the ball hits the ground before they kick it then its a double bounce. However, it would be extremely difficult to tell, which came first, the kick or the contact with the ground. Almost every referee will let it go.
Let's put it this way, if the referee applied the letter of the law in every situation we'd be blowing all the time, e.g. the only legal way of tackling is to flick the ball with the open hand out of an opponents hands. How many times do players just flick at the ball? Very few. Most leave the hand in there for a short time (others longer). Most referees let the hand stay there for a short time before they'd blow but strictly speaking you're not allowed to leave the hand in the tackle for anything other than the time it takes to flick at the ball.
As you can see refereeing is not easy! It's a little like basketball being a non-contact sport ;)
oakleaf, are u saying that if a player bounces the ball then drop kicks it thats a foul? thats what it appears you are saying.
when the one hop rule was tried during the national league afew years back as soon as the ball hit the ground referees always called it a second hop. god my throart was sore cursing them
Quote from: behind the wire on November 21, 2006, 02:56:58 PM
oakleaf, are u saying that if a player bounces the ball then drop kicks it thats a foul? thats what it appears you are saying.
I suppose it depends on your interpretation of the bounce. In the rules the bounce is defined as: For a player to play the ball against the ground with his hand(s) and back to his
hand(s) again. What does "play the ball" actually mean? Strictly speaking if I "drop" the ball and it bounces up again and I catch it, then I've played it with my hands (i.e. a bounce). Following on from that if I bounce the ball, catch it, and then drop it to "drop kick" it, and it hits the ground fractionally before I kick it then you could say that's a double bounce.
ok, so that's not how I call it. If someone drops the ball to drop kick it then I won't count that as playing it (as in bouncing it). If someone drops it purposely to avoid being called for a double bounce, I blow that as a foul. I'm sure you've seen a player thinking about bouncing it and then realizing that they've already bounced it once, just dropping the ball to avoid being called for the double bounce. I'm afraid in that situation there is no escape.
I'd like to hear Offical Line's view on this one. It's not clear cut an open to intrepretation.
Ok here's one...
A forward is running towards goal with only the keeper to beat. Out of nowhere a defender shoulder tackles the forward, causing him to drop the ball without the defender touching it, and the ball rolls over the goal line without any other player touching it. My understanding is that a forward cannot carry the ball over the goal line or that they can't naturally drop the ball in front of the goal themselves and let the ball roll over the goal line without either them self or another player touching it, so in this case does the goal count as the player was dispossessed or is it that he was still classed as being in possession and that the goal doesn't stand?
As regards the double bounce question, I don't think the drop kick is a foul; a few years ago Liam MacHale did a couple of "basketball bounces" trying to get the ball under control i.e. not taking the ball into his hands while bouncing, and it was later discussed by the RTE "experts" as being legal.
Also, if you bounce the ball and are then tackled and drop the ball, this would be a free under that interpretation.
If a man is solo running and takes the ball into his hand for the second time then drops/throws it onto the ground and takes control of it in his next stride. Are they allowed to continue on or is the drop/throw seen as an illegal handpass?
I seen Mr Leahy from Mullinahone get away with this once and was wondering ever since whether it was legal or not?
Johhny it is a foul as the throw is classed as a technical foul. how players get away with it is by disguising the "throw" as dropping the ball. how refs get around this is if the ball has forward motion then it cant just have been dropped - forward motion is a throw so blow for the foul. however it is not very often that the refs catch this on
QuoteA team is awarded a free kick, the player opts to take it from his hands, the player then kicks the ball and catches it again. In essence the player has merely soloed it, is this legal and if so can a player kick a ball say 10 yards, catch it again before bouncing and be allowed to take the free kick again?
Regarding this earlier, I don't think there was any answer given. Would like to know the story on this, can the player kick the free forward the necessary distance, then retrieve it and continue playing?
4.22 To play the ball again after taking a free kick / penalty / sideline kick before another player has touched it, unless the ball rebounds off the goal-posts/crossbar.
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - (i) Cancel free kick or side-line kick. (ii) Throw in the ball where the foul occurred except as provided under Exception (v) of Rule 2.2.
Quote from: MacDanger on November 21, 2006, 11:30:31 PM
As regards the double bounce question, I don't think the drop kick is a foul; a few years ago Liam MacHale did a couple of "basketball bounces" trying to get the ball under control i.e. not taking the ball into his hands while bouncing, and it was later discussed by the RTE "experts" as being legal.
Also, if you bounce the ball and are then tackled and drop the ball, this would be a free under that interpretation.
There's a big difference between dropping the ball as a result of a tackle, and dropping it off your own accord when not being tackled. If a tackle causes you to drop the ball then you couldn't be accused of "playing the ball" in order to bounce it but when you are not being tackled and drop the ball then that is playing it because, no-one forced your hand as it were..
The basketball bounce thing is completely different. If the ball comes to me and I don't take it into the hand, I can bounce it all day basketball style. Even when I take it into my hand I still haven't bounced it once in terms of the double bounce rule. I can then bounce it again and not take it into my hand basketball style, but once I take it into my hand this time, I must either take a toe-tap or play it.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2006, 01:30:05 PM
4.22 To play the ball again after taking a free kick / penalty / sideline kick before another player has touched it, unless the ball rebounds off the goal-posts/crossbar.
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - (i) Cancel free kick or side-line kick. (ii) Throw in the ball where the foul occurred except as provided under Exception (v) of Rule 2.2.
Yep. Notice that doesn't apply to kick-outs so the keeper could dribble the whole way up the field so long as he doesn't take it into his hands (I wouldn't fancy his chances of getting very far).
QuoteYep. Notice that doesn't apply to kick-outs so the keeper could dribble the whole way up the field so long as he doesn't take it into his hands (I wouldn't fancy his chances of getting very far).
It doesn't just apply to the keeper - it also applies to a defender if he's kicking it out
Quote from: OakLeaf on November 22, 2006, 07:40:27 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on November 22, 2006, 01:30:05 PM
4.22 To play the ball again after taking a free kick / penalty / sideline kick before another player has touched it, unless the ball rebounds off the goal-posts/crossbar.
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS - (i) Cancel free kick or side-line kick. (ii) Throw in the ball where the foul occurred except as provided under Exception (v) of Rule 2.2.
Yep. Notice that doesn't apply to kick-outs so the keeper could dribble the whole way up the field so long as he doesn't take it into his hands (I wouldn't fancy his chances of getting very far).
So in theory (s)he could scoop the ball up into a a position to basketball-like dribble and then before being challenged kick the ball away?
Feckin Cormac Reilly
Was at a Senior Championship game last weekend, there was a scramble in around the goals and referee awarded free out. Attacking player pleaded that defender picked ball on small square. Referee consulted with umpire and changed his decision to a penalty. Is the umpire permitted to call technical fouls within the current playing rules
Quote from: REDCOL on June 25, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Was at a Senior Championship game last weekend, there was a scramble in around the goals and referee awarded free out. Attacking player pleaded that defender picked ball on small square. Referee consulted with umpire and changed his decision to a penalty. Is the umpire permitted to call technical fouls within the current playing rules
No
Which is kind of silly.
As technical fouls are as important as foul play
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: REDCOL on June 25, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Was at a Senior Championship game last weekend, there was a scramble in around the goals and referee awarded free out. Attacking player pleaded that defender picked ball on small square. Referee consulted with umpire and changed his decision to a penalty. Is the umpire permitted to call technical fouls within the current playing rules
No
Which is kind of silly.
As technical fouls are as important as foul play
Are the linesmen allowed?
Quote from: REDCOL on June 25, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Was at a Senior Championship game last weekend, there was a scramble in around the goals and referee awarded free out. Attacking player pleaded that defender picked ball on small square. Referee consulted with umpire and changed his decision to a penalty. Is the umpire permitted to call technical fouls within the current playing rules
Only referee can call it.
Extra pair of eyes very helpful though in making the calls. Seems the correct call was made. Wonder if the defender who made the mistake got any flak.
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 25, 2015, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: REDCOL on June 25, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Was at a Senior Championship game last weekend, there was a scramble in around the goals and referee awarded free out. Attacking player pleaded that defender picked ball on small square. Referee consulted with umpire and changed his decision to a penalty. Is the umpire permitted to call technical fouls within the current playing rules
No
Which is kind of silly.
As technical fouls are as important as foul play
Are the linesmen allowed?
not for technical fouls, no. the referee has to see the transgression.
it's stupidity.
though I can see why, as you couldn't stop the play to go over and ask the linesman or umpire and then you'd throw the ball in if you made a mistake.
Ladies football
Can a girl touch the ball on the ground, like punch it away from them? I believe this is the rule but no one calls it
A girl can't do that in ladies' football. Only a lady can.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 10:41:22 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on June 25, 2015, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 09:14:17 AM
Quote from: REDCOL on June 25, 2015, 08:26:13 AM
Was at a Senior Championship game last weekend, there was a scramble in around the goals and referee awarded free out. Attacking player pleaded that defender picked ball on small square. Referee consulted with umpire and changed his decision to a penalty. Is the umpire permitted to call technical fouls within the current playing rules
No
Which is kind of silly.
As technical fouls are as important as foul play
Are the linesmen allowed?
not for technical fouls, no. the referee has to see the transgression.
it's stupidity.
though I can see why, as you couldn't stop the play to go over and ask the linesman or umpire and then you'd throw the ball in if you made a mistake.
So we have seven officials in a game where with the absence of an off-side rule, the game can be moved fifty metres up the field instantly, taking the referee effectively out of the game, and six of these officials can't call a technical foul. And that's before we consider the speed of hurling.
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on June 25, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
still no consultation for technical fouls in the heat of the moment
pick off ground. touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on June 25, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
still no consultation for technical fouls in the heat of the moment
pick off ground. touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying.
If this is correct, it would mean that a ref could consult with an umpire on "touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying" as these are all matters of fact.
I have to say, I didn't know that was the case though.
Quote from: westbound on June 25, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on June 25, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
still no consultation for technical fouls in the heat of the moment
pick off ground. touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying.
If this is correct, it would mean that a ref could consult with an umpire on "touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying" as these are all matters of fact.
I have to say, I didn't know that was the case though.
you cannot really consult about technical fouls like that in the heat of the moment though.
If you make a mistake then you have to throw the ball in, which can give an advantage to one team or the other depending on what part of the field it occurs.
eg defender appears to touch ball on the ground and you blow for a free in, but following consultation with an umpire it was the incorrect decision so you have to throw the ball in, thus giving an advantage to the attacking team due to field position.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 07:54:06 PM
Quote from: westbound on June 25, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on June 25, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
still no consultation for technical fouls in the heat of the moment
pick off ground. touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying.
If this is correct, it would mean that a ref could consult with an umpire on "touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying" as these are all matters of fact.
I have to say, I didn't know that was the case though.
you cannot really consult about technical fouls like that in the heat of the moment though.
If you make a mistake then you have to throw the ball in, which can give an advantage to one team or the other depending on what part of the field it occurs.
eg defender appears to touch ball on the ground and you blow for a free in, but following consultation with an umpire it was the incorrect decision so you have to throw the ball in, thus giving an advantage to the attacking team due to field position.
Not necessarily. It's now the case that if the referee stops play (usually for an injury) play should be re-started by the awarding of a free to the team who were in possession at the time of the stoppage. Even if this is a free to the attacking team it is no huge advantage (if they already had possession) because you cannot score directly from such a free.
So if it's possible to stop the game for an injury, I don't see why it's not possible to stop it for another reason (e.g. to consult with an umpire).
I'm not promoting this idea as something that should be overly used, I'm just showing that it's possible.
Quote from: westbound on June 26, 2015, 10:10:30 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 07:54:06 PM
Quote from: westbound on June 25, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on June 25, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
still no consultation for technical fouls in the heat of the moment
pick off ground. touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying.
If this is correct, it would mean that a ref could consult with an umpire on "touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying" as these are all matters of fact.
I have to say, I didn't know that was the case though.
you cannot really consult about technical fouls like that in the heat of the moment though.
If you make a mistake then you have to throw the ball in, which can give an advantage to one team or the other depending on what part of the field it occurs.
eg defender appears to touch ball on the ground and you blow for a free in, but following consultation with an umpire it was the incorrect decision so you have to throw the ball in, thus giving an advantage to the attacking team due to field position.
Not necessarily. It's now the case that if the referee stops play (usually for an injury) play should be re-started by the awarding of a free to the team who were in possession at the time of the stoppage. Even if this is a free to the attacking team it is no huge advantage (if they already had possession) because you cannot score directly from such a free.
So if it's possible to stop the game for an injury, I don't see why it's not possible to stop it for another reason (e.g. to consult with an umpire).
I'm not promoting this idea as something that should be overly used, I'm just showing that it's possible.
Under the rules you can only award an indirect free for stopping play due to an injury.
It cannot be used for making an incorrect call and then consulting with linesman or umpire.
So the only option is a hop ball.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 26, 2015, 12:47:44 PM
Quote from: westbound on June 26, 2015, 10:10:30 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 07:54:06 PM
Quote from: westbound on June 25, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 25, 2015, 12:56:01 PM
Quote from: Armagh Cúchulainns on June 25, 2015, 12:46:55 PM
See below
An additional Power of the Referee has been added as follows:
"To consult, on a needs basis, with a linesman or umpire(s) – where neutral – in order to establish matters of fact. In the case of the Umpires, this shall include consultation concerning the validity of a score when the Referee is in doubt".
This rule change gives the referee power to consult with the linemen and umpires and will be particularly relevant in the adjudication on "square balls".
Don't see any issue with the above scenario
still no consultation for technical fouls in the heat of the moment
pick off ground. touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying.
If this is correct, it would mean that a ref could consult with an umpire on "touching ball on ground. two hops. overcarrying" as these are all matters of fact.
I have to say, I didn't know that was the case though.
you cannot really consult about technical fouls like that in the heat of the moment though.
If you make a mistake then you have to throw the ball in, which can give an advantage to one team or the other depending on what part of the field it occurs.
eg defender appears to touch ball on the ground and you blow for a free in, but following consultation with an umpire it was the incorrect decision so you have to throw the ball in, thus giving an advantage to the attacking team due to field position.
Not necessarily. It's now the case that if the referee stops play (usually for an injury) play should be re-started by the awarding of a free to the team who were in possession at the time of the stoppage. Even if this is a free to the attacking team it is no huge advantage (if they already had possession) because you cannot score directly from such a free.
So if it's possible to stop the game for an injury, I don't see why it's not possible to stop it for another reason (e.g. to consult with an umpire).
I'm not promoting this idea as something that should be overly used, I'm just showing that it's possible.
Under the rules you can only award an indirect free for stopping play due to an injury.
It cannot be used for making an incorrect call and then consulting with linesman or umpire.
So the only option is a hop ball.
Fair enough. I wasn't sure of the wording of the rule. If the wording includes due to injury, then you are spot on.
Has there been a change to the ruling allowing a team to start extra time with 15 men if they'd lost a man in ordinary time;
From Hoganstand;
UCD qualified for the semi finals of the Fitzgibbon Cup thanks to a merited 1-17 to 1-16 victory over IT Carlow tonight.
Played in wet and windy conditions the DJ Carey trained home side looked in a comfortable position at the break. Aided by a late Jack Fagan goal they only trailed 0-8 to 1-1 after playing into the elements.
Carlow dominated the second period and entering the final straight had shot into a 1-9 to 0-10 lead. It was here that UCD showed their true mettle and in a fighting recovery shot three unanswered points to regain that advantage, 0-13 to 1-9.
The south Leinster combination were reduced to 14 men when Waterford inter county star Colin Dunford received his marching orders with minutes remaining but managed to bring the game to extra time, 1-10 to 0-13.
They were still restricted to 14 players in the resulting extra time as UCD pulled 1-17 to 1-13 clear, their goal coming from Colm Cronin. But in a fighting finish Carlow reduced that advantage to the minimum as a game UCD held on. The Dublin college now join Mary I in the semi finals of the competition. The other two quarter finals take place tomorrow, Wednesday.
UCD - D Holohan; P Hannon, S Murphy, E Conroy; J Madden, C O'Callaghan, C O'Shea (0-1f); H Lawlor, S Moran; J Maher (0-2), C Devitt (0-1), C Cronin (1-3); P Guinan (0-2), O O'Rorke (0-8, 6f, 1'65), J O'Connor. Subs: C McGabhann for S Moran, J Malone for J Madden, J Phelan for C Cronin.
IT Carlow - E Rowland (0-5, 4f, 1'65); K Hannafin, W Young, R Brown; D Healy, M Harney, D Palmer; M Russell (0-2), K Kelly (0-1); C Dwyer (0-2), J Doyle, S Maher (0-5, 4f); C Dunford (0-1), J Fagan (1-0), C Bolger. Subs: T Nolan for S Maher, S Maher for T Nolan, T Nolan for C Bolger, M Kavanagh for T Nolan.
Referee - J Owens.
The ref was James Owens, so I'd imagine he knows his stuff, but I don't think the rule has changed? I know there was talk about it alright.
Quote from: johnneycool on February 17, 2016, 09:53:07 AM
Has there been a change to the ruling allowing a team to start extra time with 15 men if they'd lost a man in ordinary time;
From Hoganstand;
UCD qualified for the semi finals of the Fitzgibbon Cup thanks to a merited 1-17 to 1-16 victory over IT Carlow tonight.
Played in wet and windy conditions the DJ Carey trained home side looked in a comfortable position at the break. Aided by a late Jack Fagan goal they only trailed 0-8 to 1-1 after playing into the elements.
Carlow dominated the second period and entering the final straight had shot into a 1-9 to 0-10 lead. It was here that UCD showed their true mettle and in a fighting recovery shot three unanswered points to regain that advantage, 0-13 to 1-9.
The south Leinster combination were reduced to 14 men when Waterford inter county star Colin Dunford received his marching orders with minutes remaining but managed to bring the game to extra time, 1-10 to 0-13.
They were still restricted to 14 players in the resulting extra time as UCD pulled 1-17 to 1-13 clear, their goal coming from Colm Cronin. But in a fighting finish Carlow reduced that advantage to the minimum as a game UCD held on. The Dublin college now join Mary I in the semi finals of the competition. The other two quarter finals take place tomorrow, Wednesday.
UCD - D Holohan; P Hannon, S Murphy, E Conroy; J Madden, C O'Callaghan, C O'Shea (0-1f); H Lawlor, S Moran; J Maher (0-2), C Devitt (0-1), C Cronin (1-3); P Guinan (0-2), O O'Rorke (0-8, 6f, 1'65), J O'Connor. Subs: C McGabhann for S Moran, J Malone for J Madden, J Phelan for C Cronin.
IT Carlow - E Rowland (0-5, 4f, 1'65); K Hannafin, W Young, R Brown; D Healy, M Harney, D Palmer; M Russell (0-2), K Kelly (0-1); C Dwyer (0-2), J Doyle, S Maher (0-5, 4f); C Dunford (0-1), J Fagan (1-0), C Bolger. Subs: T Nolan for S Maher, S Maher for T Nolan, T Nolan for C Bolger, M Kavanagh for T Nolan.
Referee - J Owens.
The old rule applied last sunday in the ballyboden/clonmel game anyway.
I hadn't heard of any change in the rule.
2.6 Players in Extra Time
(a) Any fifteen players may start Extra Time,
except as provided for in (b) and (d) below.
(b) In an Inter-County Game, any fifteen players on the List submitted to the Referee prior to the game, except as provided for in (d) below, may start Extra Time.
(c) The Referee shall be given a List of the 15 players starting Extra Time, or a Note clearly indicating the changes made from that of
the finishing team in Normal Time. This List/ Note may be in single form but shall otherwise comply with the provisions of Rule 2.5 - List of Players.
(d) A player ordered off in any circumstance in Normal Time, may not play in Extra Time but may be replaced.
(e) Substitutions/Temporary Substitutions shall be allowed during the playing of Extra Time as outlined in Rule 2.4(ii) and (iii).
(f) A Caution (Yellow Card) issued in Normal Time shall not carry over into Extra Time.
Hi just want ask about a decision a referee made in a recent schools game I was at. One team was awarded a free around the half way line, The player taking the free went to play it short but the referee deemed it to not have gone 13m. The ref then proceeded to award a free the other way(for the ball not going 13m but the player who took the free argued that it should have been a hot ball/retake. Just wondering what the correct decision was.
Quote from: Sligoman2015 on February 18, 2016, 03:40:39 PM
Hi just want ask about a decision a referee made in a recent schools game I was at. One team was awarded a free around the half way line, The player taking the free went to play it short but the referee deemed it to not have gone 13m. The ref then proceeded to award a free the other way(for the ball not going 13m but the player who took the free argued that it should have been a hot ball/retake. Just wondering what the correct decision was.
There isn't a rule that the ball has to travel 13m from a free kick before it can be played. All players have to be at least 13m away from the ball when it is struck. In theory, the ball call travel just 6m from the free kick position and it's not a foul as long as fellow team mates are >13m away from the ball when it's struck.
The ref got it wrong but might have been right at the same time, . The penalty for being less than 13m away is a free kick awarded to the other side. To add in a bit of absurdity, if the free taker (hot on his heels) gets to where the ball landed before anybody else and gives it a second whack, then he can take the free kick again.
Is there any clarification on why Carlow IT had just 14 players in ET?
Quote from: Main Street on February 18, 2016, 05:01:50 PM
Quote from: Sligoman2015 on February 18, 2016, 03:40:39 PM
Hi just want ask about a decision a referee made in a recent schools game I was at. One team was awarded a free around the half way line, The player taking the free went to play it short but the referee deemed it to not have gone 13m. The ref then proceeded to award a free the other way(for the ball not going 13m but the player who took the free argued that it should have been a hot ball/retake. Just wondering what the correct decision was.
There isn't a rule that the ball has to travel 13m from a free kick before it can be played. All players have to be at least 13m away from the ball when it is struck. In theory, the ball call travel just 6m from the free kick position and it's not a foul as long as fellow team mates are >13m away from the ball when it's struck.
The ref got it wrong but might have been right at the same time, . The penalty for being less than 13m away is a free kick awarded to the other side. To add in a bit of absurdity, if the free taker (hot on his heels) gets to where the ball landed before anybody else and gives it a second whack, then he can take the free kick again.
Correct!
Ball doesn't have to travel 13m
Smart teams have figured this out and have shortened the length of their kickouts, sidelines and frees from the hand