Kerry v Throne AIQF - Saturday July 1st

[Whishtup]

There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard.  These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion.  The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor.  My only concern is this.  Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs.  Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management.  And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench.  I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops.  I hope I'm proven wrong.

[Jerome]

Lot of giddy fans, Tyrone drew with a division 3 side and beat a poor Donegal side thats best players decided to stay at home this year.

[Armagh18]

Should be an intriguing game and genuinely can't call it. We all know how good Tyrone can be (unfortunately) but obviously depends which side turn up. Kerry will be out for revenge after 2021 for sure and should have no complacency this time. If we beat Monaghan I've a strong feeling we'll get the winner of this in the semi.

[imtommygunn]

Kerry by 12 or Tyrone by 2.

Can't decide which one...

[Redhand Santa]

There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard.  These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion.  The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor.  My only concern is this.  Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs.  Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management.  And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench.  I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops.  I hope I'm proven wrong.

It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.

[God14]

There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard.  These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion.  The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor.  My only concern is this.  Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs.  Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management.  And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench.  I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops.  I hope I'm proven wrong.

It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.

Joe Oguz is at least equal to Ben McDonnell IMHO. Certainly in any of the Errigal games I watched last year. Also Oguz did very well in the league game against Kerry this year, probably his best performance to date in the Tyrone senior jersey. He hasn't really got going in the championship as of yet, however we know from underage and the club scene... there is more to come

[RedHand88]

Lot of giddy fans, Tyrone drew with a division 3 side and beat a poor Donegal side thats best players decided to stay at home this year.

Keery lost to team who were beat by a division 2 team. That's much worse.

[statto]

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

Kerry were 1/5 on to win the game, I expected them to do so but also expected Tyrone to give them their fill of it with Clifford ultimately being the difference.  His departure that day would have had a significant momentum swing in the game and result may have been different had he stayed on the pitch which we will never know. 

Tyrone were a decent side yes they won ulster and got to an AI final but Dublin were that far ahead of the pack there wouldn't been too many outside of Tyrone giving them a chance.  At the time it generally would have been viewed as Dublin/Kerry as the frontrunners and well ahead of the pack.  Tyrone did what they had to do to win the 2021 AI, but the stars certainly aligned for them that year on a few fronts.  Good teams make their own luck as they say.

Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.

Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.

Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.

Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?

Regardless of why Clifford went off it is a degree of good fortune that a once in a generation player goes off when a game is in the melting pot.  That would have had an impact on both teams mentally Tyrone in a positive light and Kerry negatively.   

[trueblue1234]

Nine times out of ten Kerry would have won that match in 2021 but everything fell Tyrone's way on the day and fair play to them for capitalising. But they've produced nothing since then to back it up. Man for man Kerry are much superior to Tyrone and I actually think they will win this very comfortably as Tyrone are not great in defence.

Tyrone were down to 14 men for 2 black card periods and there wasn't much in the game at all.

It was a similar type smash and grab that Donegal carried out on Dublin in 2014. Tyrone got goals at the right time but Kerry were very naive defensively. That's why they brought Tally in since then to shore them up. Tally will have the inside knowledge needed and Kerry will not be as naive again.

Quite a revealing post with the suggestion seeming to be that northern teams need luck and some kind of surprise factor to beat the traditional powers. In reality Donegal in 2014 in particular but also Tyrone in 2021 were already established teams who had shown previously they were capable at the highest level. They were the better teams on the day and neither was a "smash and grab". As others have said, Tyrone played a chunk with 14 men and also tired late on, which wasn't surprising given the circumstances surrounding the game. Final margin of defeat flattered Kerry. Let's hope northern teams going to Croke Park in the weeks ahead don't have the small time inferiority complex you seem to have.

Tyrone won't for sure but after the very patchy performances of this summer I'm still not convinced. The first half against Monaghan was good, they showed a bit of spirit at least with 14 against Galway, there were actually some good spells against Westmeath until the late collapse, and Saturday was very good, albeit Donegal were not. They were also poor in parts against Monaghan and Westmeath, as they were in a subdued performance against Armagh. You would really want a much better basis than that going into an All Ireland quarter final, and even more so after Tyrone took 2022 off. Significant question marks over their ability to just go back up through the gears based on recent times, despite the oft quoted suggestion that Kerry bring the best out of Tyrone.

What we do know is that the quality is there and that Tyrone won't fear Kerry. It will be interesting for sure.

Who mentioned anything about northern inferiority complex because I certainly didn't. It just so happened that the 2 matches I brought up involved 2 Ulster teams and you turned it into an argument about inferiority complex yourself. I was basing both matches on the evidence of what I watched on the day and what both those sides have achieved since then (or haven't achieved) to back up the assertion that those performances weren't simply once offs.

Nobody would make the argument that either that Donegal 2014 team or that 2021 Tyrone team were a better side than the Dublin team or even the current Kerry side. Donegal totally ambushed Dublin tactically in the second half in 2014 after the Dubs could have had the game dead and buried early on and that defeat was the sole blemish on their copybook over an 8 year period. Kerry in 2021 were steamrolling everybody prior to that semi final but the Covid affair left them waiting in the sidelines for 5/6 weeks and sucked the life out of them. It was less of a smash and grab than the Dublin v Donegal 2014 match but it was still a result out of the blue given all the circumstances surrounding it. Kerry were a relatively young team and mentally fragile and Tyrone almost had a free shot to nothing and took full advantage. If Tyrone do go and back it up by beating Kerry again at the weekend then I'll revise my opinion but I can only base it on the evidence of what they have achieved since then and I see little that would lead me to believe that they are capable of it.   

Utterly bizarre to base your opinion on what Tyrone have achieved since and ignore what they actually did that summer and what they had been building towards for a few seasons prior to that with provincial championships, several All Ireland semi final appearances and an appearance in the final too, with a squad made up of several successful under age teams. Tyrone let Kerry off the hook in the 2019 semi, a couple of years down the line with more experience and crucial change in approach they got the job done. Suggestion it was some kind of bolt from the blue is ridiculous, it was a success years in the making. And Donegal in 2014 were a serious team, they absolutely dismantled the Dubs and forced them into a huge (and very successful) rethink about the road ahead. Those Tyrone and Donegal teams knew they could take on and beat anyone and with good reason. They didn't need a bolt 'from the blue', 'a smash and grab' or 'goals at the right time' (a particularly daft idea, when is the wrong time to score?). Small time thinking.

Kerry were 1/5 on to win the game, I expected them to do so but also expected Tyrone to give them their fill of it with Clifford ultimately being the difference.  His departure that day would have had a significant momentum swing in the game and result may have been different had he stayed on the pitch which we will never know. 

Tyrone were a decent side yes they won ulster and got to an AI final but Dublin were that far ahead of the pack there wouldn't been too many outside of Tyrone giving them a chance.  At the time it generally would have been viewed as Dublin/Kerry as the frontrunners and well ahead of the pack.  Tyrone did what they had to do to win the 2021 AI, but the stars certainly aligned for them that year on a few fronts.  Good teams make their own luck as they say.

Kerry have always been heavy favourites any time they have played Tyrone and pretty much any team they play except for some of the time against the all conquering Dublin team. Tyrone and Kerry both got beaten well by Dublin in finals. The match between them was tight in 2019 and Tyrone definitely left that one behind them, though Kerry had beaten Tyrone well in the league that year.

Tyrone were underdogs in the semi and final. They were missing 5 players for the Ulster final and had to deal with difficult circumstances, to put it mildy, for the semi with several players still not right. Tyrone should have wrapped up things in normal time against Kerry and indeed in the first half of extra time, while also getting two black cards when Kerry should have also had similar. Clifford pulled up with cramp, which wasn't really fortuitous, it was most likely him not being well enough conditioned for such an intense game.

Tyrone beat Cavan (the Ulster champions), Donegal, Monaghan, Kerry and Mayo to win the All-Ireland. So three Division 1 teams and Mayo who got promoted and were in the final the previous year. Kerry beat Cork (Munster champions), Limerick, Mayo, Dublin and Galway in 2022. That's two Division 1 teams, one who got relegated and one promoted division 2 team.

Why was Tyrone's win an aligning of the stars and not Kerry's?

Regardless of why Clifford went off it is a degree of good fortune that a once in a generation player goes off when a game is in the melting pot.  That would have had an impact on both teams mentally Tyrone in a positive light and Kerry negatively.   

You could over analyse everything tho. Tyrone down to 14 men for over a quarter of the game. I'd argue that should have had a bigger impact than losing Clifford.
I still feel like Kerry will edge it and it's going to be feisty but couple points either way and wouldn't rule out a draw after normal time.
I'm not overly confident of our ability to change things during a game tho. So hoping for a good start.

[Mikhailov]

There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard.  These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion.  The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor.  My only concern is this.  Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs.  Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management.  And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench.  I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops.  I hope I'm proven wrong.

It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.

I agree on the McGleenan point but surely he is fit if he has been named on the bench in all the games in the championship to date bar the Monaghan one. I fully expected him to have played some minutes off the bench before now - maybe this is the game

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

Really enjoyed listening to the GAA hour interview with Stevie O'Neill. What a player he was. Amazing to hear he had totally stopped playing club football and was only doing a bit of cycling before he made the comeback that time. Still knocking around with the Masters team now. You'd still pay to watch him!

https://soundcloud.com/sportsjoe-gaa-hour/gaahr-2662023192?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

[Redhand Santa]

There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard.  These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion.  The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor.  My only concern is this.  Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs.  Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management.  And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench.  I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops.  I hope I'm proven wrong.

It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.

I agree on the McGleenan point but surely he is fit if he has been named on the bench in all the games in the championship to date bar the Monaghan one. I fully expected him to have played some minutes off the bench before now - maybe this is the game

He was replaced on the bench on Saturday night and has had a few injuries during the year.

[God14]

There's no doubting the credentials of Tyrone's first team. McGeary looks up for it for the first time in a long time, F Burns and R MacNamee seem to be back to the required standard.  These were the matchwinners in the big games in 2021 in my opinion.  The McKenna x factor has been replaced by the Canavan X Factor.  My only concern is this.  Those big games in 2021, we were able to bring on certain very effective subs.  Ben O'Donnnell nearly always replaced Kennedy and was very effective-who does that now? Tiernan McCann had that experience for game management.  And then an in-form McShane coming off the bench.  I am concerned that if any of the full team fatigues (especially the two boys in midfield), the quality drops.  I hope I'm proven wrong.

It's a pity McGleenan hadn't stayed injury free and got a run at it. He could have been a decent option around the middle for the last 15 minutes.

I agree on the McGleenan point but surely he is fit if he has been named on the bench in all the games in the championship to date bar the Monaghan one. I fully expected him to have played some minutes off the bench before now - maybe this is the game

McGleenan wasnt on the bench against Donegal. He was replaced at No 23 i think it was by Carrickmores Rory Donnelly prior to throw in. Sounds like injury?

[square_ball]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

[HokeyPokey]

We have a bench now that is good for closing out a game bringing on the likes of Frank Burns, Richie Donnelly even the likes of the younger players like Niall Devlin/Seanie O'Donnell are in that mould as well. McShane is a bit of an outlier in that we don't know what shape he is in and if he can impact the game. I would imagine if we are 3 or 4 down with 15 minutes to go they will take a chance on him producing something.

Sludden and Oguz too. The bench hasn't had a big impact so far this year, but there are good players there. Hopefully McGleenan will be available. He's a good wild card to be able to play. I wouldn't be surprised to see Burns, Sludden or Oguz come in, Ruairí would be the most likely to lose out, but I don't want that nor do I expect it.