Down Club Hurling & Football

[outback]

Yes Benny should never have been allowed to retire.
They should have maybe kidnapped a member of his family or threatened him with some other dastardly deed.
Wise yourself up.

My God, apart from Brick's reply, this is al  a load  of crap !

[islandchampions08]

I have heard rumours that the league format is changing back to 4 leagues is that correct? if correct when will it be happening next season or 2016 season?

[outinfront]

I don't see what that would change tbh.  There always going to be teams way ahead of others, there's going to be beatings and always going to be strugglers in each division.  The leagues seem competitive enough.

[islandchampions08]

I know in division one last year the top teams and the bottom teams on a given day there wasn't much between them but overall the better teams would prevail. But look back at the previous year warrenpoint struggled in Division 1 now look at them they are flying in down and ulster so it does show there is a gulf in class between the top 6/8 teams in down. I think the way it used to be 10 teams in each league meant that right up until the last game of the season mattered. I could be wrong but a good few years ago An roicht where in their last game facing relegation play offs or play offs to win the league depending on their last result. they won and went on to win the league. to me that is a better set up than teams just cruising thru there last 2/3 games because 1) they are safe 2) they either in top 4 or bottom 4.

[outinfront]

Warrenpoint were relegated but as far as I remember they lost several matches by very slim margins.  They have developed and are an excellent team and should do well next year in Div 1 and Senior.  This season the fight for 3rd spot pretty much went to the wire with An riocht, Ballymartin, St John's and Bredagh all chasing it and a chance at the playoffs.  Season before Tullylish were promoted and relegated but Glen went on to stay up.  There is no denying the gulf between the top teams and the rest though but changing the leagues again I dont think will change much.  You may well be right though.

[Line Ball]

I don't see what that would change tbh.  There always going to be teams way ahead of others, there's going to be beatings and always going to be strugglers in each division.  The leagues seem competitive enough.

It will put things back the way they were and should never have been changed.  The County Board should hold their hands up and say publicly that they got this one wrong.  There was nothing wrong with the leagues but strong clubs like Kilcoo managed to push this change through a few years back, for some reason.  Clubs have been hit hard in the pocket as local derbys for the home club, which generate some much income, are only held every two years and with a sizeable crowd could take as much as a few thousand.

There has always been a gulf in class between Div 1 and 2 with teams like Annaclone, Warrenpoint, Tullylish, Ballyholland often flitting between the two.  Good enough for Div 2 but not for Div 1.  This year with a much bigger Div 1, Glenn were able to get enough points to retain Div 1 status but if there had not been as many teams in Div 1 then they probably would have been straight back down again.

These are the decisions to be made tonight:



Down All County Leagues 2015

In the original document proposing the Leagues and Championship Proposals 2013-2018 there was always the caveat that the proposals could be discussed again if there was a general feeling that the process was not working. Already Coiste Banisti has taken onboard concerns about the 'Dead Rubbers' that were happening in our Football Championships and you have received details of such recently. In relation to the Leagues I would also like discussion to happen at the County Committee meeting on November 27th.  Thus everyone will be very clear about what is happening well in advance of the leagues commencing, change would come into place in 2016.

I will outline here the various possible options for our Leagues in 2016.
Option One
We remain the same format with Three Divisions thus No Change to what is presently constituted.

Option Two
In 2016 Division One will consist of 12 Teams, Division Two will consist  of 12 Teams Division Three will consist of 10 Teams and Division Four will consist of 10 Teams.
How would this be arrived at?
   At the end of 2015 
   Six Teams would be relegated from Division One
   Two Teams would be promoted from Division Two
   In 2016 then Division Two would consist of the Six Relegated teams from Division One plus the next Six Teams in Division Two at the end of 2015. The Top two teams in Division 3 at the end of 2015 would enter the new Division Three in 2016.
   Division Three would consist then of the Top Two Teams in Division Three in 2015 plus the bottom Eight Teams in Division Two in 2015.
   Division Four would then be made up of the remaining ten Teams



Option Three

In 2016 Division One will consist of 10 Teams, Division Two 10 Teams, Division Three 12 Teams and Division Four 12 Teams
How would this be arrived at?
At the End of the 2015 Season
   Six Teams would be relegated from Division One –
   No Promotion from Division Two
   In 2016 then the New Division Two would consist of the 6 relegated teams from Division One plus the Top Four Teams in Division Two at the end of 2015
   In 2016 then the New Division Three would consist of the remaining 12 teams in Division Two in 2015
   In 2016 then Division Four would remain as Division Three is presently constituted for 2015
   One possible alternative  suggestion for Division 3 and 4 is that  the Top Team in Division 3 in 2015 remains in the new Division 3 and the bottom team in Division 2 in 2015 is relegated to a new Division 4

These are just some thoughts, two additional points I would like to be considered either for 2015 or 2016
In relation to the Reserve and Premier Reserve Leagues I would propose that they are played on a One Round Basis and on the alternative weeks we organise an Under 20/21 competition played at a better time of the year and hopefully with more games.
In hurling we designate the Joe McCrickard as an Under 21 competition to commence in March.

[downup]

My preference is the 12 teams, home and away. Players want to play football so give them plenty of matches. Have a 2 week holiday period in July and play away even without county players if need be. Too many sunny weekends are spent with training and no matches to play in.

[mccool85]

I'm really hoping that Irish News article today isn't true. They say Marty Clarke is unwilling to commit to training five nights a week and therefore won't be involved for Down this year. Doyle, Gordon and King have opted out and Dan McCartan not selected.

Not too fussed on the others but Clarke not playing is a massive blow and I reckon Benny knew about this and it made his decision to retire easier as he said recently he was definitely going to play when the news broke that Clarke was back.

Niall and Daryl Brannigan both in the squad which is great news.

[T O Hare]

I'm really hoping that Irish News article today isn't true. They say Marty Clarke is unwilling to commit to training five nights a week and therefore won't be involved for Down this year. Doyle, Gordon and King have opted out and Dan McCartan not selected.

Not too fussed on the others but Clarke not playing is a massive blow and I reckon Benny knew about this and it made his decision to retire easier as he said recently he was definitely going to play when the news broke that Clarke was back.

Niall and Daryl Brannigan both in the squad which is great news.

If your are not too worried about the others, who would you start midfield next season?

[Mourne Rover]

T O'Hare asks a pertinent question, and the idea that the door has been closed to some key figures because they apparently not available for a training programme in November is alarming. Commitment has to be mixed with realism, and players of proven ability should be able to make a phased return in the new year.

Doyler is around the 33 mark and with his injury record it would have been optimistic to expect him to be around next summer. However, while Ambrose has also been struggling for fitness, he should surely not be retiring at 30. King is about the same age, and also has a huge amount to offer if he can balance his work issues. Gordon looked in decent shape at the Anto game at Ravenhill and is someone else we can ill afford to lose. McCartan may have been close to the end of the line but his departure does not seem to have been well handled.

However, Marty's case is the most concerning. He recently got married, a baby is due in 2015 and he is starting a degree course after several years in Australia, so he has a lot going on. He has been a professional athlete and getting back to proper fitness at 27 should not be a problem for him, even if we have to wait until Easter. If he returned, there has been at least a hint that Benny might also reconsider.

There is a danger we will end up with a squad of super fit youngsters who lack quality and experience in crucial areas, so it would be a mistake to rule out the star names at this stage. 

[outback]

  I agree mostly with what Mourne Rover has said but what is Jim Mc Corry supposed to say
to "non star players" about committing fully if he is allowing the "star players" to half commit
at this stage?   Mind  you November is a bit early for all this bad news.

[Mourne Rover]

Outback, the players we are talking about have all given huge service to Down at senior level. Doyle and Coulter made their debuts in 2000, Gordon in 2002, and  McCartan, King and Rogers in 2004. Clarke would have been a regular since 2006 if he had not been in Australia. It seems reasonable to give them a bit of time and space if they are going to be involved in 2015, and it is hard to believe that the younger members of the squad would have many objections. Counties which have been much more successful than us over recent years take a flexible attitude, so a little common sense is required all round.

[Shamrocks Gaelp]

Not at all surprised at Liam Doyle or Dan McCartan bowing out, and I knew King would after last year. Very surprised however about Clarke and big Dan. Gordon especially can offer a lot more to the county, however I heard whispers of him talking about retiring at the start of November. Concerning Clarke, was he not supposed to have officially comitted after a statement to the irish independent a couple of weeks ago? However I'd say there will be a turn around later on in the year. Never the less, all the best to all players, role models within the county and owe nothing, considering the drought these players played through in the 2000's! Sad to see three former captains go too (the two dans and doyler) . On a side note would anyone care to post the panel that was talked about in the irish news today ?

[Pangurban]

The finest tuned Orchestra in the world, would be fairly average, under the baton of the wrong Conductor. I hope the allegory is clear

[ardtole]

To lose the calibire of player mentioned is a lot for a county like Down to take in one go. In contrast, this time last year Eamonn FitzMaurice was in a similar position after losing key players through injury and retirement, but he made special arrangements to accommadate Declan O'Sullivan and things worked out okay. It looks like McCrory is trying to stamp his authority but a bit of man management seems to be lacking. It could be argued he is following the Jim McGuinness method, but he managed to get all his key men onside early. I hope things work out but it does seem extreme from the outside looking in.