LSFC - Longford v Dublin 31 May 2015 in Croke Park

[North Longford]

In terms of yesterdays "match" in Croke Park, what an absolute farce.

The GAA have created a monster and a monster needs a lot of food to be fed. In this case, food equals money.

This monster called Dublin is obese. Started to gain weight about 10 years ago and now is a food addict. Its now so big it can barely move. Thats why it always has all of its games at home.

Longford on the other hand is anorexic.

Something must be done by the GAA now before Longford dies. Lets spread the food around a bit more.

We are supposed to be an amateur organisation here. Lets make it fair or at least fairer.

Take Dubs out of Croker for a start. The monster needs to get some exercise.

Longford voted to keep the Dubs in Croker this year. Along with every Leinster county, bar Laois.

1976 championship:
Dublin 5-16 Longford 0-7

1988 championship:
Dublin 4-15 Longford 0-9

2005 championship
Dublin 2-23 Longford 0-10

Smaller counties have been getting hammerings from bigger counties since the inception of the inter-county system.
To say its a modern phenomenan down to money is just nonsense.
Should never have been a live on TV match though

Longford have had many decent underage teams in recent years. They are far different than the 70's and 80's and even the last decade. No one can question that their standard of football is far higher than before, yet they are 27 points behind Dublin. There has to be a reason for it.

Jack Sheedy would be the main reason from what I saw yesterday.

If  Harte, McGuinness or Fitzmaurice had been in charge of Longford for a period of time there is now way they would have taken a beating like that.

Its a great and worthwhile discussion lads but Longford unfortunately are a very poor barometer to be using to base any decisions on. Couple of good points made above and they can be answered easily.
Insider I think you are wrong when you say missing players wouldn't have made much difference. I don't for one second believe last Sunday was a true reflection of the state of Longford Football.
  In 2 minutes with very little thought I could pick a team of players in Longford who are not on the panel for various reasons but mostly by choice who I would expect to beat the team Longford put out on Sunday by about 15 points. Even the retirements are a bit of a red herring. As Dessie Dolan pointed out if Paul Barden was a Dublin footballer would he have retired this year..I would say not a chance but he had one year under this regime and obviously decided it was going no where quickly enough to convince him to put the effort in for another year.
None of this is to demean the efforts of the lads who put the effort in and some of them are excellent footballers. But as has been said Longford have been extremely competitive at underage level for the last 10 or 15 years. Last Sunday was no way an indication of the level of ability of footballer in Longford but may very well be a reflection of the county board and management set up. As Laurel said earlier it was mentioned during the game on Sunday  that 8 lads left the panel at the start of this year. A county the size and population of Longford cannot afford to be missing half of its best players. Maybe if they were in a competition they had a realistic chance of winning then more lads would commit but its been a long time since there has been such a malaise among longford players with respect to representing their county and I'm not sure it would make a big difference to be honest

[Fuzzman]

There are several factors in Dublin's favour which lead to a hammering like that.
Most of us with a bit of wit know that Dublin, in their HOME ground with 60+ Dubs booing thee opposition who try to play man to man football any more will lose,
Kerry tried it a few years ago and the reaction was what an amazing game we had and football has been saved from the turgid cancer that HSS been defensive systems.
Kerry went away, licked their wounds, realised what Tyrone did in 2003 wasn't so stupid after all and have come back with their Owen version of how to beat this AMAZING Dublin team/squad/army.
Of course it won't happen but I'd love to see Dublin's 1/4 final and semi played outside Crtoke park.
They would probably still win but it would help level out some of the huge imbalances such as population, money, facilities etc,
Dub fans have this lovely wee romantic idea that sure away matches will be great craic and its a night or weekend away in Culchie land. Not many of therm have experienced that feeling of being outnumbered & having to bite your tongue and not say what you want to say.
Experience that toxic Donegal atmosphere where your best forward will not get a touch of the ball and miss most of his frees.
Ye play in a big blue Dublin bubble with all Gaels saying if we can't get croker filled with other counties then let's make sure the Dubs are there.
Money keeps Croke park ticking over and the Dubs population will always ensure their unfair dominance.

[Jinxy]

Outside of the Leinster final in both codes, the only Leinster championship games that should be played in Croke Park are the semi-finals as double headers REGARDLESS of the demand for tickets for any fixture before then.

[general_lee]

Reading the Longford manager's interview in yesterday's paper I'm glad Longford got beat in such fashion! Both stubborn and naive.

[INDIANA]

Reading the Longford manager's interview in yesterday's paper I'm glad Longford got beat in such fashion! Both stubborn and naive.

In a 32 county Association you have 9 counties who believe in playing a certain way. That provides a powerful mandate for Mc Guinness and Co to argue the case for Battle of Alamo defensive football . When 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on the issues it's a hell of a good starting point for propaganda.

He makes the point if everyone played football like Longford against Dublin they'd all be torn to pieces which is complete bullshit. Jim unfortunately cannot recognise the fact that some people just don't want to dine at the Maginot Line Temple of Blankets.

Whether Longford played a blanket or didn't play a blanket they'd have lost by the bookies spread. When a Div 1 team plays a Div 4 team that's what happens and it allows him to self promote his subservient bullshit that his way is the ou way to play the game

But when 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on most of the issues. This is what happens.

[armaghniac]

In a 32 county Association you have 9 counties who believe in playing a certain way. That provides a powerful mandate for Mc Guinness and Co to argue the case for Battle of Alamo defensive football .

Why should you object to Alamo style defence, sure yous the Mexicans still overcame that one. 

[tippabu]

Reading the Longford manager's interview in yesterday's paper I'm glad Longford got beat in such fashion! Both stubborn and naive.

In a 32 county Association you have 9 counties who believe in playing a certain way. That provides a powerful mandate for Mc Guinness and Co to argue the case for Battle of Alamo defensive football . When 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on the issues it's a hell of a good starting point for propaganda.

He makes the point if everyone played football like Longford against Dublin they'd all be torn to pieces which is complete bullshit. Jim unfortunately cannot recognise the fact that some people just don't want to dine at the Maginot Line Temple of Blankets.

Whether Longford played a blanket or didn't play a blanket they'd have lost by the bookies spread. When a Div 1 team plays a Div 4 team that's what happens and it allows him to self promote his subservient bullshit that his way is the ou way to play the game

But when 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on most of the issues. This is what happens.

We played longford in the championship last year and they were the most defensive team we played all year, even when we were well ahead they stayed very defensive. We ran out 17 point victors that day, they were never going to have any impact against the dubs no matter how they played.

[AZOffaly]

Reading the Longford manager's interview in yesterday's paper I'm glad Longford got beat in such fashion! Both stubborn and naive.

In a 32 county Association you have 9 counties who believe in playing a certain way. That provides a powerful mandate for Mc Guinness and Co to argue the case for Battle of Alamo defensive football . When 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on the issues it's a hell of a good starting point for propaganda.

He makes the point if everyone played football like Longford against Dublin they'd all be torn to pieces which is complete bullshit. Jim unfortunately cannot recognise the fact that some people just don't want to dine at the Maginot Line Temple of Blankets.

Whether Longford played a blanket or didn't play a blanket they'd have lost by the bookies spread. When a Div 1 team plays a Div 4 team that's what happens and it allows him to self promote his subservient bullshit that his way is the ou way to play the game

But when 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on most of the issues. This is what happens.

Division 1 teams in 2014 were Cork, Dublin, Monaghan, Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone and Derry. I don't think all those teams would beat Longford by a cricket score. In fact Derry can attest to that fairly recently.

Dublin, with their tails up at Croke Park, against a weaker team, can do that to you. Not that many others can. Longford are not a bad championship team, but they played badly against Dublin, and paid the penalty for it. I bet that score would not have been repeated in Pearse Park.

[INDIANA]

Reading the Longford manager's interview in yesterday's paper I'm glad Longford got beat in such fashion! Both stubborn and naive.

In a 32 county Association you have 9 counties who believe in playing a certain way. That provides a powerful mandate for Mc Guinness and Co to argue the case for Battle of Alamo defensive football . When 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on the issues it's a hell of a good starting point for propaganda.

He makes the point if everyone played football like Longford against Dublin they'd all be torn to pieces which is complete bullshit. Jim unfortunately cannot recognise the fact that some people just don't want to dine at the Maginot Line Temple of Blankets.

Whether Longford played a blanket or didn't play a blanket they'd have lost by the bookies spread. When a Div 1 team plays a Div 4 team that's what happens and it allows him to self promote his subservient bullshit that his way is the ou way to play the game

But when 30 percent of the electorate agree with you on most of the issues. This is what happens.

Division 1 teams in 2014 were Cork, Dublin, Monaghan, Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone and Derry. I don't think all those teams would beat Longford by a cricket score. In fact Derry can attest to that fairly recently.

Dublin, with their tails up at Croke Park, against a weaker team, can do that to you. Not that many others can. Longford are not a bad championship team, but they played badly against Dublin, and paid the penalty for it. I bet that score would not have been repeated in Pearse Park.

I find it extraordinary that so many people think multiple AI winners and All stars that Dublin are fortunate to have at present would be so off put by playing on a different pitch AZ. Dublin would wipe the floor with Longford if they played them in a telephone box

On the broader issue as fans we'd love to play at provincial venues. Good day out for everyone concerned and a good boost to the local economy . But I personally can't see the results being any different .

It's the equivalent of a junior club side playing a senior side. If we don't do it at club level why do we do it at county level ? Longford got promoted this year and the key for them is to get promoted again. Only then will they be conditioned for playing a team like Dublin. There is a monstrous gap between Div 2 and 3 in my opinion . And they were coming from Div 4.

[AZOffaly]

I'm not saying they wouldn't beat them handily, what I'm saying is that it wouldn't be the same scoreline. I don't think they'd put up 4-infinity in Longford. And I don't think the Dubs would have any problem playing down the country.

What I'm saying is that is almost a perfect storm for a team like Longford, Offaly, whoever. Croke Park, versus a Dublin team who get a good start and are flying, against an inferior team. It's a recipe for disaster. In all my time the Dubs are noted as a team that will destroy you if they get their tails up.

So that result, in isolation, is not reason enough to banish a team like Longford. As I've said, they've beaten Derry, a Division 1 team, as recently as last year, and have had wins over Mayo and Derry again in the recent past. Like what are we trying to achieve here? The problem definition needs a little work I think.

[Esmarelda]

I'm not saying they wouldn't beat them handily, what I'm saying is that it wouldn't be the same scoreline. I don't think they'd put up 4-infinity in Longford. And I don't think the Dubs would have any problem playing down the country.

What I'm saying is that is almost a perfect storm for a team like Longford, Offaly, whoever. Croke Park, versus a Dublin team who get a good start and are flying, against an inferior team. It's a recipe for disaster. In all my time the Dubs are noted as a team that will destroy you if they get their tails up.

So that result, in isolation, is not reason enough to banish a team like Longford. As I've said, they've beaten Derry, a Division 1 team, as recently as last year, and have had wins over Mayo and Derry again in the recent past. Like what are we trying to achieve here. The problem definition needs a little work I think.

You're right AZ. Dublin have everything going for them; home draw, against a Division 4 team with whom their manager decides to play a man-on-man game, a team who are missing many of what is perceived to be their main players.

If the game was in Longford and they had an astute manager who had his full strength team then there's little doubt that the scoreline would have been much tighter.

Longford would then enter the qualifiers in much better spirit and we wouldn't have the annual rant about the Leinster Championship.

[Syferus]

Reading the Longford manager's interview in yesterday's paper I'm glad Longford got beat in such fashion! Both stubborn and naive.

In the end you always should give your team the best possible chance of winning the match or at least staying in the match. That's not what Sheedy did.

There's something admirable in his principles but also something utterly mad in their execution in that game. If anything he made the case for the style of play he is opposed to.

[INDIANA]

I'm not saying they wouldn't beat them handily, what I'm saying is that it wouldn't be the same scoreline. I don't think they'd put up 4-infinity in Longford. And I don't think the Dubs would have any problem playing down the country.

What I'm saying is that is almost a perfect storm for a team like Longford, Offaly, whoever. Croke Park, versus a Dublin team who get a good start and are flying, against an inferior team. It's a recipe for disaster. In all my time the Dubs are noted as a team that will destroy you if they get their tails up.

So that result, in isolation, is not reason enough to banish a team like Longford. As I've said, they've beaten Derry, a Division 1 team, as recently as last year, and have had wins over Mayo and Derry again in the recent past. Like what are we trying to achieve here. The problem definition needs a little work I think.

They wouldn't beat the spread even in Pearse Park AZ. I'm always wary of grading qualifier results. Players emigrate to the USA and counties in Ulster put so much effort into winning the Ulster Championship they often lose interest in the qualifying series because most of them have no chance of winning the AI.
The league is a good indicator of the merits of most sides. If you're plying your trade in Div 4 you become conditioned to playing at that standard. Blanket defences won't improve that but there are sections within the GAA who are making a lot of money out of it so the myth will continue

You invest in underage and advance through the leagues and gradually your championship performances will improve . That's why the O Dwyer stories of ignoring the league were hilarious. It's the one absolute guaranteed method of improving the performances in the championship.

On average in my view there is a 20 point gap between a Div 1 and Div 4 side.

[AZOffaly]

I don't think you can be that black and white about it. And again, lets just say everything you say is true, and every Division 1 team will beat every Division 4 team on average by 20 points, but not in qualifiers because they are a law unto themselves (which I'm not sure about).

What is the solution? Are Division 4 teams fecked out, or is it everyone that Dublin or Kerry would beat by 10-15 points?

[INDIANA]

I don't think you can be that black and white about it. And again, lets just say everything you say is true, and every Division 1 team will beat every Division 4 team on average by 20 points, but not in qualifiers because they are a law unto themselves (which I'm not sure about).

What is the solution? Are Division 4 teams fecked out, or is it everyone that Dublin or Kerry would beat by 10-15 points?

They play at their own level in the championship and if they advance through the leagues they gain admission to the A championship. That's my solution. You link the two of them.

It's performance linked. If you're not in Div 1 and 2 there is no point in playing in the A Championship. We hold onto this romanticsed motion of famous giant killing acts happening . They don't anymore as the game becomes more professionalised.
Longford are in Div 3 next year so they've made progress. But they need to go up another level to have any chance of holding their own against a top side.