Gary Speed RIP

[SLIGONIAN]

You are right Muppet that nobody really understands what was going on with whoever committed suicide. Its a horrible horrible way to have someone stolen from your life. I lost a good mate at Uni through suicide and nobody knows why. I think that is why so many people would call it selfish, because of the devastation it leaves behind and the questions. They are all selfish responses in themselves, to death, but all natural.
A horrible reality.

God Bless the Wife and kids left behind and the wider family circle. Hopefully they find comfort in the tributes pouring in for the man.

An unconcious act is when your mind controls you and you go missing, it happens when the suffering your experience is too much, you go on autopilot to survive it but it is very dangerous because you relinquish control of the mind and are no longer at the wheel. Simplest explaination is when someone makes you angry and you react well your reaction is unconcious, they push your button and it triggers the reaction, you turn into a robot. The question is what triggered this unconcious charge in Gary and it must of been massive for him to react the way he did. So imo there are all unconcious reactions, not selfish.

I started working on my mind yrs ago because of health issues, grief is actually a unconcious reaction. My Dad had a heart attack 6 yrs ago and i went in turmoil for a long while after, and 2 yrs ago he got cancer and 3 days into the grief of it i starting usually my NLP techniques/meditation etc.. and i really didnt have many negative thoughts around it as i did when he had heart attack.  We can control our reactions imo even to pain and suffering. Whats natural is when we are fully concious.

[ross4life]

Sad story LL sounds like the lad had a bad case of Bipolar disorder.

If you don't know anything about an illness, never mind being professionally qualified, you probably shouldn't be making flippant diagnoses based on a few lines of text.

Professionally qualified what like a psychiatrist whom throws a shit load of pills or gives electric shocks?  All i said was "sounds like" & i know plenty about Bipolar disorder condition. Maybe you shouldn't get so uptight on a few lines of text.

[The Iceman]

You are right Muppet that nobody really understands what was going on with whoever committed suicide. Its a horrible horrible way to have someone stolen from your life. I lost a good mate at Uni through suicide and nobody knows why. I think that is why so many people would call it selfish, because of the devastation it leaves behind and the questions. They are all selfish responses in themselves, to death, but all natural.
A horrible reality.

God Bless the Wife and kids left behind and the wider family circle. Hopefully they find comfort in the tributes pouring in for the man.

An unconcious act is when your mind controls you and you go missing, it happens when the suffering your experience is too much, you go on autopilot to survive it but it is very dangerous because you relinquish control of the mind and are no longer at the wheel. Simplest explaination is when someone makes you angry and you react well your reaction is unconcious, they push your button and it triggers the reaction, you turn into a robot. The question is what triggered this unconcious charge in Gary and it must of been massive for him to react the way he did. So imo there are all unconcious reactions, not selfish.

I started working on my mind yrs ago because of health issues, grief is actually a unconcious reaction. My Dad had a heart attack 6 yrs ago and i went in turmoil for a long while after, and 2 yrs ago he got cancer and 3 days into the grief of it i starting usually my NLP techniques/meditation etc.. and i really didnt have many negative thoughts around it as i did when he had heart attack.  We can control our reactions imo even to pain and suffering. Whats natural is when we are fully concious.

I meant that our reactions to death are natural. Applying NLP techniques to overcome your natural tendencies does not mean you are more conscious and everyone else is on autopilot, I would argue. It means you understand how the mind works more than most.
I am an NLP practitioner myself.

[Puckoon]

Agreed.

People who describe it as a selfish act really need education.

After the shock wore off about this awful news - my mind starting doing the usual thing that most of us do - reaching for threads of things we could relate to with Gary Speed, or with the depression buzz word that was flying around in the immediate aftermath (has there been any confirmation of this?) - and I started thinking about his kids. Not his great life, nor his wife nor his heading ability, nor the turn around with wales - but the kids. And how could he actually do this  - with them left behind.

Selfish is a harsh term - but for those of us without direct knowledge or experience of depression and suicide - it's not a case of needing an education if that word, or variants of it, crop up at a time like this when you look at what is left behind to carry on after the death. Is it not completely understandable that that word would come up - given so much is still unknown and untalked about? Even if it is ugly? A previous poster mentioned that severe depression results in not being able to find any pleasure in anything in your life. I can understand that. What I cannot understand is the abandonment of the responsibility to his children. That is a hard thing for me to get my head around.

He was a hell of a player - one of my favourites from my youth. His poor family are left behind now and the unbearable pain he must have been in is gone for him. Hopefully it doesnt set in in those left behind.

[SLIGONIAN]

You are right Muppet that nobody really understands what was going on with whoever committed suicide. Its a horrible horrible way to have someone stolen from your life. I lost a good mate at Uni through suicide and nobody knows why. I think that is why so many people would call it selfish, because of the devastation it leaves behind and the questions. They are all selfish responses in themselves, to death, but all natural.
A horrible reality.

God Bless the Wife and kids left behind and the wider family circle. Hopefully they find comfort in the tributes pouring in for the man.

An unconcious act is when your mind controls you and you go missing, it happens when the suffering your experience is too much, you go on autopilot to survive it but it is very dangerous because you relinquish control of the mind and are no longer at the wheel. Simplest explaination is when someone makes you angry and you react well your reaction is unconcious, they push your button and it triggers the reaction, you turn into a robot. The question is what triggered this unconcious charge in Gary and it must of been massive for him to react the way he did. So imo there are all unconcious reactions, not selfish.

I started working on my mind yrs ago because of health issues, grief is actually a unconcious reaction. My Dad had a heart attack 6 yrs ago and i went in turmoil for a long while after, and 2 yrs ago he got cancer and 3 days into the grief of it i starting usually my NLP techniques/meditation etc.. and i really didnt have many negative thoughts around it as i did when he had heart attack.  We can control our reactions imo even to pain and suffering. Whats natural is when we are fully concious.

I meant that our reactions to death are natural. Applying NLP techniques to overcome your natural tendencies does not mean you are more conscious and everyone else is on autopilot, I would argue. It means you understand how the mind works more than most.
I am an NLP practitioner myself.

Would you say that any reactions are unconcious or just all natural? Im not religious but i love the line in the bible when Jesus says "forgive them Father for they know not what they do" This is relevant to Gary in that i believe that saying means there unconcious, who in the right minds would vote to release a murderer like barrabas go free and crucify Jesus. Therefore i believe suicide is an unconcious act where the real person isnt there anymore. Thats my take, no one has to feel the same but it helps me have an inkling of understanding to why such thing happened and leave the trail of despair that will follow as puckoon points out. Maybe im wrong but maybe im right too.

[Tony Baloney]

The paps hanging round his house are parasites.

[Hoof Hearted]

The paps hanging round his house are parasites.

you're not joking, read all about the bastards below. No scruples whatsoever


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15925515

[Orangemac]

Very sad news. Great player for his beloved Toffees for a few years before we had to sell him.Always a 7 out of ten player and one of the 1st names on most FF teams at work years ago.

Suicide is still taboo in many circlles.As someone has said the same resources should be put into suicide agencies as road deaths.
Maybe if it was discussed a bit more there would be more understanding of it. Has any ever committed suicide in a soap for example?

Everyone knows families that have been affected by it but no one knows any more than speculation in most cases for the reasons why. There was a show on BBC Northern Ireland last year that would have moved the hardest heart to tears.

[Milltown Row2]

The paps hanging round his house are parasites.

you're not joking, read all about the b**tards below. No scruples whatsoever


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15925515

Are there posters on here who buy those papers? I have not bought one of those red tabs for close on 15 years I say (before i was married)

Those paps thrive on the public buying their pictures of pain of families that have lost love ones or going through the pain of a marrage break down

[Main Street]

Agreed.

People who describe it as a selfish act really need education.

After the shock wore off about this awful news - my mind starting doing the usual thing that most of us do - reaching for threads of things we could relate to with Gary Speed, or with the depression buzz word that was flying around in the immediate aftermath (has there been any confirmation of this?) - and I started thinking about his kids. Not his great life, nor his wife nor his heading ability, nor the turn around with wales - but the kids. And how could he actually do this  - with them left behind.

Selfish is a harsh term - but for those of us without direct knowledge or experience of depression and suicide - it's not a case of needing an education if that word, or variants of it, crop up at a time like this when you look at what is left behind to carry on after the death. Is it not completely understandable that that word would come up - given so much is still unknown and untalked about? Even if it is ugly? A previous poster mentioned that severe depression results in not being able to find any pleasure in anything in your life. I can understand that. What I cannot understand is the abandonment of the responsibility to his children. That is a hard thing for me to get my head around.

He was a hell of a player - one of my favourites from my youth. His poor family are left behind now and the unbearable pain he must have been in is gone for him. Hopefully it doesnt set in in those left behind.

Selfish does not describe the act.
Those things which mean everything to a person when not depressed, have little value to the same person when depressed.
A person could have a strong sense of duty/responsibility, but have little or nothing left in a state of deep grief or despair, not even for the children.


What gets me  are the remarks about people crying as if the crying was a symptom, a mark of how upset the person was.
Shedding tears is a healthy response when a person feels such sadness. Crying is the bodies natural response for you loosen up wherever you are holding in the knotting horrible feelings of grief.

[imtommygunn]

The paps hanging round his house are parasites.

you're not joking, read all about the b**tards below. No scruples whatsoever


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15925515

Some shocking stuff there. Just shows you they build you up to knock you down. Absolute scumbags.

There will be some fallout from the whole thing. How high it goes is the question.

Still shocked about Gary Speed. First time I've watched football focus this season was saturday and I'd also just read the guardian article about stan collymore and that unknown footballer who writes the article. Who knows if it was depression but it's a terrible thing.

Suicide is rife in society these days. Have unfortunately known  a person and known of a few who have done the same thing. I don't think we can ever understand what will go through their minds. I really feel for the poor wife. She'll have to move out that's for sure as you couldn't live in that house again. She has now to raise kids without a father - travesty.

[mylestheslasher]

Selfish is a very offensive term to use with regard to suicide. Many of these people figure they are doing the world and their families a favour by killing themselves. I would refrain from using such language.  Proper research and funding needs to be put in place for this scourge in society which seems to me to be getting worse.

I know of a case in sligo last yr which was the most horrendous I ever came across. A woman whose husband died of a heart attack a few months previous, leaving 3 kids all under 15, went out and hung herself. Her youngest found her, the kids now live with a relative. There is no explaining this in normal logic, the mind is just badly damaged and can't function as it should. How else can you look at such a thing.

[galwayman]

Awful sad stuff. I am another who doesn't agree with people who term suicide as a selfish act. We haven't walked in the shoes of any person who has committed suicide so who are any of us to say such a thing.
I can't begin to imagine what they must be going through in their minds.

[fitzroyalty]

RIP Gary Speed.

Agree with the last two posts. Lazy and ignorant to say it's a selfish act. Nobody knows what is going on in someone else's head. And for them to resort to suicide would break your heart even trying to think what was keeping them down.

One of my best friends took his life in Christmas 2009. He was your stereotypical, centre of attention, joker, womaniser, great craic, friendly, entertainer.  Always happy and and always smiling.The last person you'd ever expect. I could never imagine him ever feeling sad, down or lonely. Then one night he had enough, completely out of the blue. Something I will never get my head round

[heganboy]

With all the the news about Gary Speed this weekend, I was absolutely gobsmacked to hear this morning of the recent suicide of an old friend. A smart, funny, good looking girl in her early thirties who unbeknownst  to me had been suffering from depression for a long time and sadly took her own life. Its at times like this that you realize the suicide taboo, being that I am away from Ireland, every had been leaving it to everyone else to tell me, and when I called it was "oh I thought someone would have told you..."
Gutted to hear this news, really took the wind out of the sails today a sad sad loss of a great person.