The OFFICIAL Liverpool Supporters thread

[Mentalman]

Dossena 9m

Was that his price? Man you would expect that he be good in that case, it's a bit on a pricey side for a guy who has one cap, wasn't in the Italy squad and most of us hadn't heard of. It's a lot of money for a left back when Liverpool appear to have so little to spend.

As for Barry, I'd agree, time to cool the interest if those terms were rejected. Either Villa need to sell to improve, in which case they will come back, or they wil be stuck with an unhappy player.

[Mentalman]

Many would see Babel as been a striker in the future ala Thierry Henry. He hasn't shown on a consistent basis what he can do but still young, 21, has pace but imho needs to improve his decision making and final ball. Has the pace and can finish, expect a strong year from him this year.

Maybe he will show more this year in big games, perhaps he is a striker after all, as he is not good at holding posession or finding a teammate from the wing, even with simple passes. Seems to do well at the end of games finishing off sides though when the match is stretched.

Kuyt is a striker first and foremost but isn't in Torres class or close to it. He finished the second half of year very strong and hopefully can continue that. Needs to get an early run of goals and does score in big games when chances are limited.

I admire Sloth's will to work and run, and perhaps he hasn't been given the opportunities to play as an out and out striker, but I do think there is something in the opinion that he doesn't make intelligent enough runs, or get himself in positions to do so. Could be though the reason for that is the role he has been asked to play, more or less a wing back towards the end of last season.

[bingobus]

Bingobus, the problem I see is that Carson might be the only player to leave at this stage and even thats far from a certainty. So 5m additional rather than 12m. Also, the Barry/Alonso deals could end up costing us 4-5m rather than only 1m. So Rafa will be left with the 5m profit made already plus whatever the owner throws at him for his remaining transfer kitty. In my opinion, we'll be extremely lucky to get Barry & a striker (Keane/Villa) this summer.

I couldn't see us not selling Pennant or Benayoun if they were offered. Pennant - WBA, Newcastle, Middlesboro etc would prob snap him up at 5m. Pity he didn't get that England cap as he'd be worth 8/9m then  Benayoun is using the press on a daily basis to praise Rafa and the club, so he is looking to stay!

I suppose if they aren't sold, he won't be looking for a winger  which would be a shame, as I thing we defo need 1, if not 2, new wingers.

[stevo-08]

Stevo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/aston_villa/7450271.stm

cheers for that. this really is the most drawn out transfer I remember. How villa are demanding 17m + Finan for a player they've banished from training, is beyond me.

Dossena 9m

Was that his price? Man you would expect that he be good in that case, it's a bit on a pricey side for a guy who has one cap, wasn't in the Italy squad and most of us hadn't heard of. It's a lot of money for a left back when Liverpool appear to have so little to spend.

I thought it was around 7m. I think if it was 9m, there's be more publicity about it cos he'd be the most expensive defender ever signed by Liverpool. Below is the link from sky sports, even though it's over a month old.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3656484,00.html

[Captain Black]

Kuyt is critical to this Liverpool side. For reference, see Torres interview at ~ end June where he attributed his success to the workrate of Kuyt.

Further, contrary to an above post, I think he is a very intelligent player, capable of finding space and making appropriate runs, delivering good ball etc. However, it is obvious for all to see that he does not have the required pace or flair to be a top class 'winger' per se. But like I say, he is critical to the team for the role he performs. I think that Rafa thinks the same as well.

[bingobus]

Dossena 9m

Was that his price? Man you would expect that he be good in that case, it's a bit on a pricey side for a guy who has one cap, wasn't in the Italy squad and most of us hadn't heard of. It's a lot of money for a left back when Liverpool appear to have so little to spend.

I thought it was around 7m. I think if it was 9m, there's be more publicity about it cos he'd be the most expensive defender ever signed by Liverpool. Below is the link from sky sports, even though it's over a month old.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_3656484,00.html

[/quote]

It may well have been 7m (€9m), prob confused the two in original post. All the better, gives Rafa more money to spend 

[Mentalman]

Kuyt is critical to this Liverpool side. For reference, see Torres interview at ~ end June where he attributed his success to the workrate of Kuyt.

Further, contrary to an above post, I think he is a very intelligent player, capable of finding space and making appropriate runs, delivering good ball etc. However, it is obvious for all to see that he does not have the required pace or flair to be a top class 'winger' per se. But like I say, he is critical to the team for the role he performs. I think that Rafa thinks the same as well.

That's as maybe, I'm sure Torres is delighted to have a strike partner who makes acres of room for him and works his knackers off for the side, but my point would be Liverpool will not win a championship playing as they did last year, nor will they win one without another frontline striker to supplement Torres in the event of injury/tiredness/loss of form. Kuyt maybe that man, hopefully he is, but hasn't shown it in his time at the club.

[Captain Black]

What do you mean mentalman, when you say 'playing the way they did last year'? Please be more specific. In a general sense, it is obvious they wont win the league playing as they did last year, because we only finished fourth.

[Mentalman]

What do you mean mentalman, when you say 'playing the way they did last year'? Please be more specific. In a general sense, it is obvious they wont win the league playing as they did last year, because we only finished fourth.

Well I think that more or less covers it then? The general sense I mean. The same tactics and the same personel employed again in the  same way obviously will not yield a league, that's self evident. So a change is needed is it not? I don't see any significent moves being made at the moment to remedy the issues we saw last year. Maybe it will be a slow process as it took almost 4 years to decide to spend some real money and buy a quality striker like Torres. At that rate perhaps in 5 years, assuming you can hold on to quality players and they don't lose form/become too old, Liverpool might have a side capable of challenging for the league. All the huffing and puffing of Kuyt playing at wing back, laudable as it is, to me is a sign that Liverpool are doing something wrong. Why would I think that? Well I look at the more successful teams in the league, Chelsea and Man Utd. for instance, and wonder why they don't seem to have the same issues as Liverpool? Why they actually play proper wingers, whose main occupation is attacking, whereas we converted someone who's best position is probably striker (do we know?), who is not the paciest, to a right sided midfielder? Why they have a similar problem on the left wing? Why they struggle to score without Torres in the side? It's evident there are problems at right and left back and both wings, and are short another good striker,while at centre back and central midfield they seem to be pretty well covered. Another season of Kuyt playing on the right means to me we have no real ambition to win the league. And that's not anything against the man himself, it's just a statement of fact.

[Rossie11]

This Gareth Barry saga is dragging on.
Why dont pool call their bluff offer 10m take it or leave it. He cant play for villa again and I dont see many other clubs willing to pay the price Villa want.
Any messy transfer tussle Pool were involved in was not worth the hassle in long run. Ziege and Kewell are the obvious ones.
I couldnt be arsed if he signs or not. He is not the man to make the difference between 4th and 1st.
Finding it impossible to get excited about liverpools chances next season when the height of our ambition seems to be signing Gareth Barry.

[North Longford]

Funny thing is from mid feb to the end of last season Liverpool actually gained the most points...even more than United or Chelsea.
This would have been during the period when they are accussed of solely concentrating on the Champions league and they would also have put out weakened teams on a couple of occassions. This is during the period when Sir Alex reckons the league is won and lost (thats only if you are within touching distance of it when that period starts!!). The problem for the past couple of seasons has been a brutal run of form for 7 or 8 games where they struggle to win any games. United or Chelsea don't do that sort of run. If it can be avoided I still tink they have a decent chance.....it's a big if though!

[bingobus]

Funny thing is from mid feb to the end of last season Liverpool actually gained the most points...even more than United or Chelsea.
This would have been during the period when they are accussed of solely concentrating on the Champions league and they would also have put out weakened teams on a couple of occassions. This is during the period when Sir Alex reckons the league is won and lost (thats only if you are within touching distance of it when that period starts!!). The problem for the past couple of seasons has been a brutal run of form for 7 or 8 games where they struggle to win any games. United or Chelsea don't do that sort of run. If it can be avoided I still tink they have a decent chance.....it's a big if though!

Roy Evans talked about this "run" on LFC TV the other evening. Its a poor statistic that doesn't tell the whole story. When the run started we were out of contention, therefore had little pressure, while the other two teams had lots to play for on all fronts. In that run we played teams with nothing to play for bar a few relegation teams, midtable teams playing the potential champions will always lift their game as it is all that they have to play for. The truth is in that run when we played the other top four we only took 2 points away to Chelsea and Arsenal. 4 pts from 18 against the other top 4 teams isn't championship winning material.

The league table rarely lies and looking at chunks of it can serve any purpose you look at. Fro example, look at run from christmas to mid-feb, it would be relagation material, should we worry about that next year 

[Mentalman]

4 pts from 18 against the other top 4 teams isn't championship winning material.

Absolutely key statistic, and has been repeated time and again over previous seasons.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Funny thing is from mid feb to the end of last season Liverpool actually gained the most points...even more than United or Chelsea.
This would have been during the period when they are accussed of solely concentrating on the Champions league and they would also have put out weakened teams on a couple of occassions. This is during the period when Sir Alex reckons the league is won and lost (thats only if you are within touching distance of it when that period starts!!). The problem for the past couple of seasons has been a brutal run of form for 7 or 8 games where they struggle to win any games. United or Chelsea don't do that sort of run. If it can be avoided I still tink they have a decent chance.....it's a big if though!

Roy Evans talked about this "run" on LFC TV the other evening. Its a poor statistic that doesn't tell the whole story. When the run started we were out of contention, therefore had little pressure, while the other two teams had lots to play for on all fronts. In that run we played teams with nothing to play for bar a few relegation teams, midtable teams playing the potential champions will always lift their game as it is all that they have to play for. The truth is in that run when we played the other top four we only took 2 points away to Chelsea and Arsenal. 4 pts from 18 against the other top 4 teams isn't championship winning material.

Well to look at our games against the other top teams in isolation.

Man U (h) - probably should have got a point from the game but didn't.
Man U (a) - we were shite. Deservedly well beaten.

Chelsea (h) - would almost certainly have won that game only for the ref giving a ridiculous penalty to Chelsea.
Chelsea (a) - got a draw in a very boring game

Arsenal (h) - Led for most of the match but Arsenal deserved something from the game and got it.
Arsenal (a) - Probably should have won the game. Ended a draw.

Certainly though a decent start would be to start winning some of these home games against the top sides.

[bingobus]

Galwaybayboy, I hear you and agree with your analysis but its all hearsay.

For every, could have/should have/might have Liverpool had, Arsenal, United and Chelsea will have them as well. There were games we got something, se shouldn't have eg Everton away, Derby away last minute goals for all 3 points. Over a season they pan out.

We can beat any of the big four on a given day but actually doing so is the problem and the next level we need to go to on a consistant basis.