Clerical abuse!

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

When will Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams let us know their opinion on the clerical abuse scandal and their opinion on mandatory reporting? Their silence is deafening.

What has it got to do with Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein? Do you want every TD to publicly clarify his position or just Gerry Adams?

He seeks to position himself as the leader of the opposition. Surely in such a situation Gerry Adams and his party should make their position clear, are they Catholic Nationalists or Irish Republicans? Also does Gerry agree with mandatory reporting of child abuse? Have Sinn Fein made their position clear yet?

[mylestheslasher]

Mayo - might i suggest the debate on whether god exists or not be left to a different thread. Its a debate worth having of course but not here. Such a debate allows the sheep followers of the catholic church to do what they do best - waffle about things that may or may not have happened 2000 years ago. They are much more comfortable doing that. The Cloyne report is much more recent and more definite. Its finding cannot be argued about. It is here the church worshippers squirm as they come up with more and more ridiculous defences ( eg - Myles is a moan, its the medias fault etc etc). I say keep this debate on the straight and narrow and lets see if these people have anything worth saying.

Myles I have not come up with any defenses. In fact the majority of people who have countered anything you have to say, have at first condemned the abuse and the abusers and the cover up. They have been equally disgusted at the findings of the report. BUT they have not agreed with you on your proposed solutions or the way in which you have approached even discussing a solution. You show little respect for anyone else or their beliefs unless they line up behind you.

You're a great man for stirring up the shit. You mask it behind republicanism but you're just an unhappy person who likes to moan.

So you agree with the report then? So what do you reckon should be done with the papal nuncio, Irelands relationship with the Vatican and the likes of cardinal Brady and his buddies who cover things up. The word if the church surely counts for nothing now when they were themselves not doing what they said they would. Do you not think Ireland should at a minimum stop supporting these people? Let's here your ideas? Btw, I'm quite happy thanks for your concern.

[Nally Stand]

When will Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams let us know their opinion on the clerical abuse scandal and their opinion on mandatory reporting? Their silence is deafening.

Is there nothing you wouldn't try turn into party politics MGHU?

For the record:

"Mr O Caoláin said the Papal Nuncio should be called in to be told of the Government's anger on the issue.
He pledged Sinn Féin support for the Government's planned legislation on mandatory reporting."
RTÉ

"The Cloyne Report is a shocking indictment, above all, of the Catholic Church which ignored its own guidelines and procedures designed to protect children from child abuse. What is especially shocking is that this report brings the clerical sexual abuse scandal right up to 2009.
The Report finds that the Vatican 'gave individual Irish bishops the freedom to ignore the procedures which they had agreed and gave comfort and support to those who, like Monsignor O'Callaghan, dissented from the stated official Irish Church policy'.
This is a damning indictment of the role of the Vatican. The Vatican is not just a Church bureaucracy – it is a sovereign State with which the Irish State has diplomatic relations.
The Government should now demand an urgent and formal diplomatic meeting with the Papal Nuncio to account for the role of the Vatican in facilitating individual Irish bishops to ignore procedures designed to protect children from abuse.
I welcome the strong response of the Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald and the Minister for Justice Alan Shatter to this Report. The commitment to place the Children First guidelines on a statutory basis and to legislate on the issue of soft information is very welcome.
The Report, while commending An Garda Síochána in most cases, is also critical of their role in three cases. The Minister for Justice must ensure that the lessons of this Report are learned by the Gardai. As in previous Reports, Cloyne highlights the disagreement between the Office of the Minister for Children and the HSE about the extent of the powers available to the HSE in relation to extra-familial abuse of children. It is unacceptable that this situation persists and it must be addressed."
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

"Sinn Féin's Mary Lou McDonald said the report was another chapter in the 'sordid story of the violation of children and the sheltering of abuse perpetrators by the (Catholic) church'.
Ms McDonald said it needed to be recognised that to date the State has failed children.
She welcomed the Government's commitment to legislate to boost protection of children, but asked the Tánaiste to do it with urgency."
RTÉ

"Of all the reports that there have been - from Ryan, Murphy, Ferns - I view the outcome of the Cloyne report as by far and away the most serious.
I think it has profound implications and I certainly think that the case that has been made for investigations in all dioceses makes a very compelling argument."
Martin McGuinness

[Pangurban]

MGHU its people like you who are ranting, and running around like headless Chickens, calling for this and that too be done, with no forethought or focus, who are distracting from the real issues and preventing anything meaningful from getting done. Some of the proposed actions emanating from our legislator, are so ludicrous they are laughable, and are clearly designed to pander too people like you by appearing to take action. While some serious legislation will be necessary, if it is not enforcable, it will be useless. So time and thought must be given in order to get it right. Even that will not solve the problem, as the fact is that legislation does not prevent wrongdoing. There is an inherent evil in some people that will always find expression, as it has in the past, will now, and in the future. There are no fixes, quick or otherwise, which will resolve this problem, in the Church or the wider society. Now is the time for cool heads, serious thought and long term planning

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

When will Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams let us know their opinion on the clerical abuse scandal and their opinion on mandatory reporting? Their silence is deafening.

Is there nothing you wouldn't try turn into party politics MGHU?

For the record:

"Mr O Caoláin said the Papal Nuncio should be called in to be told of the Government's anger on the issue.
He pledged Sinn Féin support for the Government's planned legislation on mandatory reporting."
RTÉ

"The Cloyne Report is a shocking indictment, above all, of the Catholic Church which ignored its own guidelines and procedures designed to protect children from child abuse. What is especially shocking is that this report brings the clerical sexual abuse scandal right up to 2009.
The Report finds that the Vatican 'gave individual Irish bishops the freedom to ignore the procedures which they had agreed and gave comfort and support to those who, like Monsignor O'Callaghan, dissented from the stated official Irish Church policy'.
This is a damning indictment of the role of the Vatican. The Vatican is not just a Church bureaucracy – it is a sovereign State with which the Irish State has diplomatic relations.
The Government should now demand an urgent and formal diplomatic meeting with the Papal Nuncio to account for the role of the Vatican in facilitating individual Irish bishops to ignore procedures designed to protect children from abuse.
I welcome the strong response of the Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald and the Minister for Justice Alan Shatter to this Report. The commitment to place the Children First guidelines on a statutory basis and to legislate on the issue of soft information is very welcome.
The Report, while commending An Garda Síochána in most cases, is also critical of their role in three cases. The Minister for Justice must ensure that the lessons of this Report are learned by the Gardai. As in previous Reports, Cloyne highlights the disagreement between the Office of the Minister for Children and the HSE about the extent of the powers available to the HSE in relation to extra-familial abuse of children. It is unacceptable that this situation persists and it must be addressed."
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

"Sinn Féin's Mary Lou McDonald said the report was another chapter in the 'sordid story of the violation of children and the sheltering of abuse perpetrators by the (Catholic) church'.
Ms McDonald said it needed to be recognised that to date the State has failed children.
She welcomed the Government's commitment to legislate to boost protection of children, but asked the Tánaiste to do it with urgency."
RTÉ

"Of all the reports that there have been - from Ryan, Murphy, Ferns - I view the outcome of the Cloyne report as by far and away the most serious.
I think it has profound implications and I certainly think that the case that has been made for investigations in all dioceses makes a very compelling argument."
Martin McGuinness

So no word from the party leader then 

[The Iceman]

Mayo - might i suggest the debate on whether god exists or not be left to a different thread. Its a debate worth having of course but not here. Such a debate allows the sheep followers of the catholic church to do what they do best - waffle about things that may or may not have happened 2000 years ago. They are much more comfortable doing that. The Cloyne report is much more recent and more definite. Its finding cannot be argued about. It is here the church worshippers squirm as they come up with more and more ridiculous defences ( eg - Myles is a moan, its the medias fault etc etc). I say keep this debate on the straight and narrow and lets see if these people have anything worth saying.

Myles I have not come up with any defenses. In fact the majority of people who have countered anything you have to say, have at first condemned the abuse and the abusers and the cover up. They have been equally disgusted at the findings of the report. BUT they have not agreed with you on your proposed solutions or the way in which you have approached even discussing a solution. You show little respect for anyone else or their beliefs unless they line up behind you.

You're a great man for stirring up the shit. You mask it behind republicanism but you're just an unhappy person who likes to moan.

So you agree with the report then? So what do you reckon should be done with the papal nuncio, Irelands relationship with the Vatican and the likes of cardinal Brady and his buddies who cover things up. The word if the church surely counts for nothing now when they were themselves not doing what they said they would. Do you not think Ireland should at a minimum stop supporting these people? Let's here your ideas? Btw, I'm quite happy thanks for your concern.

Myles I don't have the answers, nobody does. Its too soon! The implications are so widespread. Like Pangurban said, cool heads are needed now and long term planning and serious discussion.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

MGHU its people like you who are ranting, and running around like headless Chickens, calling for this and that too be done, with no forethought or focus, who are distracting from the real issues and preventing anything meaningful from getting done. Some of the proposed actions emanating from our legislator, are so ludicrous they are laughable, and are clearly designed to pander too people like you by appearing to take action. While some serious legislation will be necessary, if it is not enforcable, it will be useless. So time and thought must be given in order to get it right. Even that will not solve the problem, as the fact is that legislation does not prevent wrongdoing. There is an inherent evil in some people that will always find expression, as it has in the past, will now, and in the future. There are no fixes, quick or otherwise, which will resolve this problem, in the Church or the wider society. Now is the time for cool heads, serious thought and long term planning

So you opposed to the laws of the state taking priority over the club rules/cannon laws. You wish to protect the confessional box over the witness box. It is you that is being ludicrous if you think we will let Catholic Nationalism defeat Irish Republicanism.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Mayo - might i suggest the debate on whether god exists or not be left to a different thread. Its a debate worth having of course but not here. Such a debate allows the sheep followers of the catholic church to do what they do best - waffle about things that may or may not have happened 2000 years ago. They are much more comfortable doing that. The Cloyne report is much more recent and more definite. Its finding cannot be argued about. It is here the church worshippers squirm as they come up with more and more ridiculous defences ( eg - Myles is a moan, its the medias fault etc etc). I say keep this debate on the straight and narrow and lets see if these people have anything worth saying.

Myles I have not come up with any defenses. In fact the majority of people who have countered anything you have to say, have at first condemned the abuse and the abusers and the cover up. They have been equally disgusted at the findings of the report. BUT they have not agreed with you on your proposed solutions or the way in which you have approached even discussing a solution. You show little respect for anyone else or their beliefs unless they line up behind you.

You're a great man for stirring up the shit. You mask it behind republicanism but you're just an unhappy person who likes to moan.

So you agree with the report then? So what do you reckon should be done with the papal nuncio, Irelands relationship with the Vatican and the likes of cardinal Brady and his buddies who cover things up. The word if the church surely counts for nothing now when they were themselves not doing what they said they would. Do you not think Ireland should at a minimum stop supporting these people? Let's here your ideas? Btw, I'm quite happy thanks for your concern.

Myles I don't have the answers, nobody does. Its too soon! The implications are so widespread. Like Pangurban said, cool heads are needed now and long term planning and serious discussion.

A yes, the hope it will all blow over defence.

[Pangurban]

Such a typical response from you MGHU. Attributed views to people, which they dont hold and never expressed and then trying to ridicule them. You become more foolish with every post, and your  attempt to politicise the debate with reference to Irish Republicanism, { about which you appear to know very little}, is beneath contempt

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Such a typical response from you MGHU. Attributed views to people, which they dont hold and never expressed and then trying to ridicule them. You become more foolish with every post, and your  attempt to politicise the debate with reference to Irish Republicanism, { about which you appear to know very little}, is beneath contempt

Of course it is political, if the likes of Archbishop McQuaid and those that came after him were not allowed to hijack the Irish state then much of this abuse would never have happened and most certainly would not have been so easily covered up. Pangurban it is you who comes across foolish in this debate. By the way I am pretty sure what true Irish Republicanism is about, it most certainly is not Irish Nationalism.

[Nally Stand]

When will Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams let us know their opinion on the clerical abuse scandal and their opinion on mandatory reporting? Their silence is deafening.

Is there nothing you wouldn't try turn into party politics MGHU?

For the record:

"Mr O Caoláin said the Papal Nuncio should be called in to be told of the Government's anger on the issue.
He pledged Sinn Féin support for the Government's planned legislation on mandatory reporting."
RTÉ

"The Cloyne Report is a shocking indictment, above all, of the Catholic Church which ignored its own guidelines and procedures designed to protect children from child abuse. What is especially shocking is that this report brings the clerical sexual abuse scandal right up to 2009.
The Report finds that the Vatican 'gave individual Irish bishops the freedom to ignore the procedures which they had agreed and gave comfort and support to those who, like Monsignor O'Callaghan, dissented from the stated official Irish Church policy'.
This is a damning indictment of the role of the Vatican. The Vatican is not just a Church bureaucracy – it is a sovereign State with which the Irish State has diplomatic relations.
The Government should now demand an urgent and formal diplomatic meeting with the Papal Nuncio to account for the role of the Vatican in facilitating individual Irish bishops to ignore procedures designed to protect children from abuse.
I welcome the strong response of the Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald and the Minister for Justice Alan Shatter to this Report. The commitment to place the Children First guidelines on a statutory basis and to legislate on the issue of soft information is very welcome.
The Report, while commending An Garda Síochána in most cases, is also critical of their role in three cases. The Minister for Justice must ensure that the lessons of this Report are learned by the Gardai. As in previous Reports, Cloyne highlights the disagreement between the Office of the Minister for Children and the HSE about the extent of the powers available to the HSE in relation to extra-familial abuse of children. It is unacceptable that this situation persists and it must be addressed."
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

"Sinn Féin's Mary Lou McDonald said the report was another chapter in the 'sordid story of the violation of children and the sheltering of abuse perpetrators by the (Catholic) church'.
Ms McDonald said it needed to be recognised that to date the State has failed children.
She welcomed the Government's commitment to legislate to boost protection of children, but asked the Tánaiste to do it with urgency."
RTÉ

"Of all the reports that there have been - from Ryan, Murphy, Ferns - I view the outcome of the Cloyne report as by far and away the most serious.
I think it has profound implications and I certainly think that the case that has been made for investigations in all dioceses makes a very compelling argument."
Martin McGuinness

So no word from the party leader then 

The party has clearly deisgnated their spokesperson for Children to be at the forefront for them on this issue. A bit of input from Adams would be nice too but Mayo but maybe if you were more interested in the actual issue instead of dragging a bit of party politics into it, it would be better suited. Besides, you claimed the party were silent on the issue; that they made no statements about it in general and no statement as to whether they supported mandatory reporting. That, as my last post demonstrated, was a crock of of sh|t. Something you are used to spouting.

(Which reminds me.... sorry to have to ask you again, but any chance of a response to my post here when I asked you about how you "fixed" something for me?)

[mylestheslasher]

Mayo - might i suggest the debate on whether god exists or not be left to a different thread. Its a debate worth having of course but not here. Such a debate allows the sheep followers of the catholic church to do what they do best - waffle about things that may or may not have happened 2000 years ago. They are much more comfortable doing that. The Cloyne report is much more recent and more definite. Its finding cannot be argued about. It is here the church worshippers squirm as they come up with more and more ridiculous defences ( eg - Myles is a moan, its the medias fault etc etc). I say keep this debate on the straight and narrow and lets see if these people have anything worth saying.

Myles I have not come up with any defenses. In fact the majority of people who have countered anything you have to say, have at first condemned the abuse and the abusers and the cover up. They have been equally disgusted at the findings of the report. BUT they have not agreed with you on your proposed solutions or the way in which you have approached even discussing a solution. You show little respect for anyone else or their beliefs unless they line up behind you.

You're a great man for stirring up the shit. You mask it behind republicanism but you're just an unhappy person who likes to moan.

So you agree with the report then? So what do you reckon should be done with the papal nuncio, Irelands relationship with the Vatican and the likes of cardinal Brady and his buddies who cover things up. The word if the church surely counts for nothing now when they were themselves not doing what they said they would. Do you not think Ireland should at a minimum stop supporting these people? Let's here your ideas? Btw, I'm quite happy thanks for your concern.

Myles I don't have the answers, nobody does. Its too soon! The implications are so widespread. Like Pangurban said, cool heads are needed now and long term planning and serious discussion.

You don't have answers but you know all my answers are wrong??

Tell me, how long ago since clerical sex abuse and cover up became widely known? So maybe you can answer me how much time is required and when is it not "too soon". Enough time for all the perpetrators to die so we can all forget it ever happened? What evidence is there the church has taken any of these numerous reports serious and what evidence that they have ever been capable of self regulation. The only evidence is the exact opposite and you know it.

[Eamonnca1]

The religious orders have gotten "lawyered up" to fight off every legal action. They have hidden their assets in all manner of offshore accounts and complex arrangements of non-profit organisations. Anything to stop the victims getting any compensation.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

When will Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams let us know their opinion on the clerical abuse scandal and their opinion on mandatory reporting? Their silence is deafening.

Is there nothing you wouldn't try turn into party politics MGHU?

For the record:

"Mr O Caoláin said the Papal Nuncio should be called in to be told of the Government's anger on the issue.
He pledged Sinn Féin support for the Government's planned legislation on mandatory reporting."
RTÉ

"The Cloyne Report is a shocking indictment, above all, of the Catholic Church which ignored its own guidelines and procedures designed to protect children from child abuse. What is especially shocking is that this report brings the clerical sexual abuse scandal right up to 2009.
The Report finds that the Vatican 'gave individual Irish bishops the freedom to ignore the procedures which they had agreed and gave comfort and support to those who, like Monsignor O'Callaghan, dissented from the stated official Irish Church policy'.
This is a damning indictment of the role of the Vatican. The Vatican is not just a Church bureaucracy – it is a sovereign State with which the Irish State has diplomatic relations.
The Government should now demand an urgent and formal diplomatic meeting with the Papal Nuncio to account for the role of the Vatican in facilitating individual Irish bishops to ignore procedures designed to protect children from abuse.
I welcome the strong response of the Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald and the Minister for Justice Alan Shatter to this Report. The commitment to place the Children First guidelines on a statutory basis and to legislate on the issue of soft information is very welcome.
The Report, while commending An Garda Síochána in most cases, is also critical of their role in three cases. The Minister for Justice must ensure that the lessons of this Report are learned by the Gardai. As in previous Reports, Cloyne highlights the disagreement between the Office of the Minister for Children and the HSE about the extent of the powers available to the HSE in relation to extra-familial abuse of children. It is unacceptable that this situation persists and it must be addressed."
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin

"Sinn Féin's Mary Lou McDonald said the report was another chapter in the 'sordid story of the violation of children and the sheltering of abuse perpetrators by the (Catholic) church'.
Ms McDonald said it needed to be recognised that to date the State has failed children.
She welcomed the Government's commitment to legislate to boost protection of children, but asked the Tánaiste to do it with urgency."
RTÉ

"Of all the reports that there have been - from Ryan, Murphy, Ferns - I view the outcome of the Cloyne report as by far and away the most serious.
I think it has profound implications and I certainly think that the case that has been made for investigations in all dioceses makes a very compelling argument."
Martin McGuinness

So no word from the party leader then 

The party has clearly deisgnated their spokesperson for Children to be at the forefront for them on this issue. A bit of input from Adams would be nice too but Mayo but maybe if you were more interested in the actual issue instead of dragging a bit of party politics into it, it would be better suited. Besides, you claimed the party were silent on the issue; that they made no statements about it in general and no statement as to whether they supported mandatory reporting. That, as my last post demonstrated, was a crock of of sh|t. Something you are used to spouting.

(Which reminds me.... sorry to have to ask you again, but any chance of a response to my post here when I asked you about how you "fixed" something for me?)

Can ya let me know the dates those statements were made and were they prior to my question?

Just wondering is there are reason why the leader of a party feels he does not have the authority to speak out on the matter.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Pangurban just wondering what you think the Catholic (or any other sects) place is in public life in the Irish state &/or the Island of Ireland?