Clerical abuse!

[longrunsthefox]

I am here Myles, lets see the conclusive evidence linking the Pope to a cover up. Yes the Vatican were grossly incompetent, their responses to the scandal were immature and a PR balls-up, many individuals within the Church acted criminally and where this is proved there should be severe retribution. My problem lies with the fact that people like you and others on this Board are using the current scandal to attack and diminish the whole Church, rather than the individuals who failed to live up too their responsibilities. The Church is both Human and Divine, the human part by its very nature will always be found wanting. That is no reason to attack the majority of good clerics and people who are doing their best in difficult circumstances, and it does not justify trial by media based on emotion rather than evidence

Excellent post!

Pints you call for the "apologists" to answer you but the majority of people on both sides have made it clear how they feel and condemned the acts of abuse and the cover up.  There are a lot of people on here with their own agenda and this topic and thread highlights that even more.  Their feelings towards the Catholic Church have been apparent for the years I have frequented this board.

Not as many years as this abuse has been going on...

[The Iceman]

I am here Myles, lets see the conclusive evidence linking the Pope to a cover up. Yes the Vatican were grossly incompetent, their responses to the scandal were immature and a PR balls-up, many individuals within the Church acted criminally and where this is proved there should be severe retribution. My problem lies with the fact that people like you and others on this Board are using the current scandal to attack and diminish the whole Church, rather than the individuals who failed to live up too their responsibilities. The Church is both Human and Divine, the human part by its very nature will always be found wanting. That is no reason to attack the majority of good clerics and people who are doing their best in difficult circumstances, and it does not justify trial by media based on emotion rather than evidence

Excellent post!

Pints you call for the "apologists" to answer you but the majority of people on both sides have made it clear how they feel and condemned the acts of abuse and the cover up.  There are a lot of people on here with their own agenda and this topic and thread highlights that even more.  Their feelings towards the Catholic Church have been apparent for the years I have frequented this board.

Not as many years as this abuse has been going on...

Nobody is denying that but deflect my comment yet again

[theskull1]

Excellent post!

Pints you call for the "apologists" to answer you but the majority of people on both sides have made it clear how they feel and condemned the acts of abuse and the cover up.  There are a lot of people on here with their own agenda and this topic and thread highlights that even more.  Their feelings towards the Catholic Church have been apparent for the years I have frequented this board.

Theres a difference in simply stating condemnation and stating condemnation as well as demanding that the true extent of the problem be exposed. Your doing the former Iceman. You want it all to calm down and go away instead of seeking to find out the real extent of the problem in your church. What are you afarid of?
You, me an all the rest each have our agendas but it shouldn't overly cloud the debate. And as Tony mentioned in an earlier post.....

I would wager that most of these "haters" you refer to were/are Catholics amd therefore would have no reason to hate the Church for any reason than it's sinister deeds of some members of the clergy, and some would argue even more sinister coverup of these deeds. A coverup which appears to stretch from the Pope (past and present) down to local clergymen in Ireland.

Tell us why people are wrong to want answers, accountabilty, men behind bars, men defrocked, public inquiries, grovelling apologies? None of these will mend the lives of the thousands of people who were abused by members of the Catholic Church and in many cases with the full knowledge of their peers and superiors.

[The Iceman]

Excellent post!

Pints you call for the "apologists" to answer you but the majority of people on both sides have made it clear how they feel and condemned the acts of abuse and the cover up.  There are a lot of people on here with their own agenda and this topic and thread highlights that even more.  Their feelings towards the Catholic Church have been apparent for the years I have frequented this board.

Theres a difference in simply stating condemnation and stating condemnation as well as demanding that the true extent of the problem be exposed. Your doing the former Iceman. You want it all to calm down and go away instead of seeking to find out the real extent of the problem in your church. What are you afarid of?
You, me an all the rest each have our agendas but it shouldn't overly cloud the debate. And as Tony mentioned in an earlier post.....

I would wager that most of these "haters" you refer to were/are Catholics amd therefore would have no reason to hate the Church for any reason than it's sinister deeds of some members of the clergy, and some would argue even more sinister coverup of these deeds. A coverup which appears to stretch from the Pope (past and present) down to local clergymen in Ireland.

Tell us why people are wrong to want answers, accountabilty, men behind bars, men defrocked, public inquiries, grovelling apologies? None of these will mend the lives of the thousands of people who were abused by members of the Catholic Church and in many cases with the full knowledge of their peers and superiors.

I don't think I am doing the former but we can agree to disagree I guess.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting answers, accountability and men behind bars - I am all for it.
But is that all people want?  Some people are hijacking this to grind their own axes.  I doubt that all the former Catholics were affected by "sinister" acts - I would make the assumption that a lot of the former Catholics are former because they just didn't care for it. 

[longrunsthefox]

Excellent post!

Pints you call for the "apologists" to answer you but the majority of people on both sides have made it clear how they feel and condemned the acts of abuse and the cover up.  There are a lot of people on here with their own agenda and this topic and thread highlights that even more.  Their feelings towards the Catholic Church have been apparent for the years I have frequented this board.

Theres a difference in simply stating condemnation and stating condemnation as well as demanding that the true extent of the problem be exposed. Your doing the former Iceman. You want it all to calm down and go away instead of seeking to find out the real extent of the problem in your church. What are you afarid of?
You, me an all the rest each have our agendas but it shouldn't overly cloud the debate. And as Tony mentioned in an earlier post.....

I would wager that most of these "haters" you refer to were/are Catholics amd therefore would have no reason to hate the Church for any reason than it's sinister deeds of some members of the clergy, and some would argue even more sinister coverup of these deeds. A coverup which appears to stretch from the Pope (past and present) down to local clergymen in Ireland.

Tell us why people are wrong to want answers, accountabilty, men behind bars, men defrocked, public inquiries, grovelling apologies? None of these will mend the lives of the thousands of people who were abused by members of the Catholic Church and in many cases with the full knowledge of their peers and superiors.

I don't think I am doing the former but we can agree to disagree I guess.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting answers, accountability and men behind bars - I am all for it.
But is that all people want?  Some people are hijacking this to grind their own axes.  I doubt that all the former Catholics were affected by "sinister" acts - I would make the assumption that a lot of the former Catholics are former because they just didn't care for it.

So do we need to have been molested and raped by priests to be totally disillusioned and sickened by the Catholic Church? For the record was on end of their brutality as were most who went to their schools.

[The Iceman]

I went to their schools too and so did most of the people I know.  We all don't hate the Church though.
Maybe your experience was different and warrants the hate.  But I think it should be directed at individuals not at the Catholic millions.

[longrunsthefox]

I went to their schools too and so did most of the people I know.  We all don't hate the Church though.
Maybe your experience was different and warrants the hate.  But I think it should be directed at individuals not at the Catholic millions.

It ain't directed at Catholic millions... hysterical comment.   Jees! man... my mother goes to church and dozens of my friends.

[muppet]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/23/belgian-bishop-admits-molesting-boy

If the abuse was isolated to one country or region, I would lay the blame locally. When the abuse is world-wide I would lay the blame at the top.

[Main Street]

A cursory inspection of the current output of what is currently regarded as intelligent and spiritual leadership from the Vatican would lead many people to believe that it is morally and intellectually bankrupt as well as internally rotting. The Vatican has proved to be an ugly stain on the standard of spiritual and moral values.
It is just a question of how long Catholicism can survive.
Both the roots of the tree and its branches have contracted a terminal disease, the trunk has to die as well.
Although Catholicism still does influence many people, the Church day by day grows less attractive and year by year its power wanes. The simple truth is, that the irrational dogmas of Catholicism can no longer satisfy, or pacify this coming generation.

[Lar Naparka]

A cursory inspection of the current output of what is currently regarded as intelligent and spiritual leadership from the Vatican would lead many people to believe that it is morally and intellectually bankrupt as well as internally rotting. The Vatican has proved to be an ugly stain on the standard of spiritual and moral values.
It is just a question of how long Catholicism can survive.
Both the roots of the tree and its branches have contracted a terminal disease, the trunk has to die as well.
Although Catholicism still does influence many people, the Church day by day grows less attractive and year by year its power wanes. The simple truth is, that the irrational dogmas of Catholicism can no longer satisfy, or pacify this coming generation.

Somehow or other, I think the Catholic Church will survive alright.  Its history since the earliest days has been littered with similar controversies and scandals. While the deeds of the present sorry lot, who purport to lead the Church, would put all the devils in Hell to shame, the ordinary members will carry on with their daily lives. Those are the people who give meaning to the virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity and they practice their beliefs. Dogmas and red hats don't bother them too much.
There are far too many sincere, devout Christians out there to let the arrogance and incompetence of a pack of devious old men bring the Church to its knees. That has been the case throughout Church history and it will be the same again.

[ardmhachaabu]

A cursory inspection of the current output of what is currently regarded as intelligent and spiritual leadership from the Vatican would lead many people to believe that it is morally and intellectually bankrupt as well as internally rotting. The Vatican has proved to be an ugly stain on the standard of spiritual and moral values.
It is just a question of how long Catholicism can survive.
Both the roots of the tree and its branches have contracted a terminal disease, the trunk has to die as well.
Although Catholicism still does influence many people, the Church day by day grows less attractive and year by year its power wanes. The simple truth is, that the irrational dogmas of Catholicism can no longer satisfy, or pacify this coming generation.

Somehow or other, I think the Catholic Church will survive alright.  Its history since the earliest days has been littered with similar controversies and scandals. While the deeds of the present sorry lot, who purport to lead the Church, would put all the devils in Hell to shame, the ordinary members will carry on with their daily lives. Those are the people who give meaning to the virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity and they practice their beliefs. Dogmas and red hats don't bother them too much.
There are far too many sincere, devout Christians out there to let the arrogance and incompetence of a pack of devious old men bring the Church to its knees. That has been the case throughout Church history and it will be the same again.

I don't know what your beliefs are Lar, I think you hit it on the head though, for me anyway
I will continue to practice my beliefs and will raise my boys as Catholics.  I am not seeking to put anyone down for having other beliefs.  That's their business, not mine.  Mine is to bear witness to my faith and not allow people to speak untruths about it unchallenged.  If people choose to not listen to the truth, that's their decision, not mine

[longrunsthefox]

Anyone read about that snake Oliver O'Grady (priest who was moved and covered up by Catholic church in USA) in the Tribune today. Seems he turned up in  a church group in Holland and among other things organisnig childrens parties. Chilling. He is described as the Hannibal Lector of child abuse. Should be locked up for ever.   

[Tyrones own]

Get real Pints, read some of the comments on this and other related threads and you will see there are contributors with an agenda, too attack any manifestation of religion and catholicism in particular. They are fuelled by their own blind hatred, and devoid of any interest in victims,facts,truth or justice.

Exactly... it's too bad the same latitude can't be offered up for the faction of evil that exists within the Catholic church
with what is clearly evident and frequently found here for the evil faction in the name of Islam 

[orangeman]

More revelations from Archbishop Martin


Parishes to be vigilant on child protection
Tuesday, 11 May 2010 11:17
The Catholic Archbishop of Dublin has appealed publicly to all parishes in the Archdiocese to ensure all child protection measures are in place and in operation and that there is no let-up in the level of vigilance.

Read the full address

In an address at the headquarters of conservative church group the Knights of St Columbanus, Dr Diarmuid Martin said questions about safeguarding children should be on the agenda of every meeting of every parish pastoral council.

The Archbishop said he was personally disheartened and discouraged about the level of willingness within the Catholic Church to begin a process of renewal, following the recent revelations of clerical child abuse.

He said there were still 'strong forces' preventing the truth from emerging but that in future we would see a very different Catholic Church in Ireland.

[mylestheslasher]

More revelations from Archbishop Martin


Parishes to be vigilant on child protection
Tuesday, 11 May 2010 11:17
The Catholic Archbishop of Dublin has appealed publicly to all parishes in the Archdiocese to ensure all child protection measures are in place and in operation and that there is no let-up in the level of vigilance.

Read the full address

In an address at the headquarters of conservative church group the Knights of St Columbanus, Dr Diarmuid Martin said questions about safeguarding children should be on the agenda of every meeting of every parish pastoral council.

The Archbishop said he was personally disheartened and discouraged about the level of willingness within the Catholic Church to begin a process of renewal, following the recent revelations of clerical child abuse.

He said there were still 'strong forces' preventing the truth from emerging but that in future we would see a very different Catholic Church in Ireland.

I meant to post on this very comment earlier by Archbishop Martin. He seems to be one of the few to stick his head up and try and say something that none of his buddies want to hear. However, surely he should be going further than this. He needs to say loud and clear WHO these strong forces are and in what way they are preventing the truth. We are not talking about a little bit of Tax evasion we are talking about covering up child rapists a