Clerical abuse!

[ardmhachaabu]

If a local youth club or GAA club was involved in raping children and the same people who covered it up were in charge, would it still get community suport? Wouldn't darken the door. As early posters said, GOD is everywhere and the church have no monopoly on it. The devil, or evil, sure has been in the church alrite.

The Church hasn't got the monopoly on having evil in its midst.
A paedophile who for decades has abused numerous children managed to get elected to high office in Ulster GAA. When I say numerous, think of multiples of classroom numbers of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1004333.stm

I have no doubt this paedophile used his special position in county GAA and provincial GAA as his evidence that he must be a good man and protect himself from the rumours/suspicions down through the years. I have no doubt that many of those in suits were scurrying around afterwards saying they knew absolutely nothing.

The GAA acknowledges that cases against members are in progress and that convictions have been obtained but it does not offer any details, of positions they held, not even of the numbers involved.

That doesnt have any relevance to what we're talking about main street.

With respect pints, MS does have a point.  His point is, he may correct may if I am wrong, that the Church is no different to any other organisation in terms of the amount of paedophiles are involved in it.

[pintsofguinness]

If a local youth club or GAA club was involved in raping children and the same people who covered it up were in charge, would it still get community suport? Wouldn't darken the door. As early posters said, GOD is everywhere and the church have no monopoly on it. The devil, or evil, sure has been in the church alrite.

The Church hasn't got the monopoly on having evil in its midst.
A paedophile who for decades has abused numerous children managed to get elected to high office in Ulster GAA. When I say numerous, think of multiples of classroom numbers of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1004333.stm

I have no doubt this paedophile used his special position in county GAA and provincial GAA as his evidence that he must be a good man and protect himself from the rumours/suspicions down through the years. I have no doubt that many of those in suits were scurrying around afterwards saying they knew absolutely nothing.

The GAA acknowledges that cases against members are in progress and that convictions have been obtained but it does not offer any details, of positions they held, not even of the numbers involved.

That doesnt have any relevance to what we're talking about main street.

With respect pints, MS does have a point.  His point is, he may correct may if I am wrong, that the Church is no different to any other organisation in terms of the amount of paedophiles are involved in it.

Well I've no evidence either way of that but the GAA didn't cover it up, threaten the victims etc so there's no comparison.

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, what do you want me to say?

I have said I am still a Catholic despite what has happened

[pintsofguinness]

pints, what do you want me to say?

I have said I am still a Catholic despite what has happened

I want to know how you can be part of an organisation (I dont expect you to stop being a catholic) who's leaders cover up child abuse and who STILL don't seem to see what they've done wrong.  Aren't you, as a catholic, suppose to be able to look to these people for moral guidance? How can you do that now?

[Main Street]

If a local youth club or GAA club was involved in raping children and the same people who covered it up were in charge, would it still get community suport? Wouldn't darken the door. As early posters said, GOD is everywhere and the church have no monopoly on it. The devil, or evil, sure has been in the church alrite.

The Church hasn't got the monopoly on having evil in its midst.
A paedophile who for decades has abused numerous children managed to get elected to high office in Ulster GAA. When I say numerous, think of multiples of classroom numbers of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1004333.stm

I have no doubt this paedophile used his special position in county GAA and provincial GAA as his evidence that he must be a good man and protect himself from the rumours/suspicions down through the years. I have no doubt that many of those in suits were scurrying around afterwards saying they knew absolutely nothing.

The GAA acknowledges that cases against members are in progress and that convictions have been obtained but it does not offer any details, of positions they held, not even of the numbers involved.

That doesnt have any relevance to what we're talking about main street.

It was written in reply to Fox. I believe it has relevance to what he wrote. The linked article refers to how the Ulster sec. enjoyed the privilege of the VIP box at the Ulster Final at a time after the investigation was in full swing.
On hearing that news at that time, my feeling was that the GAA hierarchy were supporting the Ulster secretary's pompous claims that the allegations were from blackguards. A typical, all too common reaction I might add, from such people. But it would not affect my relationship with the GAA.
Fox asks about a hypothetical situation of GAA club involvement however the GAA are not forthcoming on even basic details of allegations or convictions.

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, I know a member of clergy who was responsible for awful acts of child abuse which only came out years after they had left the parish they were in.  This is going back years.  I know that my grandparents would never have believed it of him but it is true - the fact that it happened rocked my world at the time because I would have been in his parish church a fair bit for Mass.  When it eventually came out what he was at there were quite a few people who didn't believe it, up until the point where the priest concerned was in court with a heap of charges against him with all sorts of witnesses testifying against him.

How can I still be a Catholic after that? How can I look to priests for spiritual guidance?

I am still a Catholic because I believe in God, I believe in Our Lady, I believe in Jesus Christ.  I am not sure who other than a priest I could be expected to seek spiritual guidance from.

It certainly wouldn't be Gnevin, that much I can tell you

[mylestheslasher]

pints, I know a member of clergy who was responsible for awful acts of child abuse which only came out years after they had left the parish they were in.  This is going back years.  I know that my grandparents would never have believed it of him but it is true - the fact that it happened rocked my world at the time because I would have been in his parish church a fair bit for Mass.  When it eventually came out what he was at there were quite a few people who didn't believe it, up until the point where the priest concerned was in court with a heap of charges against him with all sorts of witnesses testifying against him.

How can I still be a Catholic after that? How can I look to priests for spiritual guidance?

I am still a Catholic because I believe in God, I believe in Our Lady, I believe in Jesus Christ.  I am not sure who other than a priest I could be expected to seek spiritual guidance from.

It certainly wouldn't be Gnevin, that much I can tell you

If you believe in God and Jesus then you are a Christian. If you want to go down to a church and listen to a priest then you are a catholic. Why do you need to seek guidance from priests or popes that know nothing more than any of us. Are you not able to form your own opinions of the bible? The church has shown that it is corrupt and self serving and not just with regards to child abuse but generally by way of keeping power.

I too am a father of a 2 year old. It makes me sick to think of what these fucks have done to kids. I can't believe the power this corrupt nasty organisation has wielded in my country.  I hope now that people will awaken from the trance they are in and finally see the truth.

[pintsofguinness]

pints, I know a member of clergy who was responsible for awful acts of child abuse which only came out years after they had left the parish they were in.  This is going back years.  I know that my grandparents would never have believed it of him but it is true - the fact that it happened rocked my world at the time because I would have been in his parish church a fair bit for Mass.  When it eventually came out what he was at there were quite a few people who didn't believe it, up until the point where the priest concerned was in court with a heap of charges against him with all sorts of witnesses testifying against him.

How can I still be a Catholic after that? How can I look to priests for spiritual guidance?

I am still a Catholic because I believe in God, I believe in Our Lady, I believe in Jesus Christ.  I am not sure who other than a priest I could be expected to seek spiritual guidance from.

It certainly wouldn't be Gnevin, that much I can tell you

So do I but I couldn't seek guidance from people who thought and still think it was acceptable to cover this stuff up.  I'll use my own judgement.

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, I know a member of clergy who was responsible for awful acts of child abuse which only came out years after they had left the parish they were in.  This is going back years.  I know that my grandparents would never have believed it of him but it is true - the fact that it happened rocked my world at the time because I would have been in his parish church a fair bit for Mass.  When it eventually came out what he was at there were quite a few people who didn't believe it, up until the point where the priest concerned was in court with a heap of charges against him with all sorts of witnesses testifying against him.

How can I still be a Catholic after that? How can I look to priests for spiritual guidance?

I am still a Catholic because I believe in God, I believe in Our Lady, I believe in Jesus Christ.  I am not sure who other than a priest I could be expected to seek spiritual guidance from.

It certainly wouldn't be Gnevin, that much I can tell you

So do I but I couldn't seek guidance from people who thought and still think it was acceptable to cover this stuff up.  I'll use my own judgement.

Fair enough pints, I am not preaching that you should do anything else

[longrunsthefox]

If the man wants to go to mass, he's entitled to go to mass. Tho I can't get my head around it either. I heard an old man on the radio coming out of mass today saying Jesus Christ suffered more than anyone. (ie: the children... like wtf  ). I'd say Jesus Christ is not too impressed with his self appointed foot soldiers running around in their dog collars telling impressionable people how to live their lives while their masters hide the evidence of paedophiles. Ard Mhaca.. you're welcome to them.   

[ardmhachaabu]

pints, I know a member of clergy who was responsible for awful acts of child abuse which only came out years after they had left the parish they were in.  This is going back years.  I know that my grandparents would never have believed it of him but it is true - the fact that it happened rocked my world at the time because I would have been in his parish church a fair bit for Mass.  When it eventually came out what he was at there were quite a few people who didn't believe it, up until the point where the priest concerned was in court with a heap of charges against him with all sorts of witnesses testifying against him.

How can I still be a Catholic after that? How can I look to priests for spiritual guidance?

I am still a Catholic because I believe in God, I believe in Our Lady, I believe in Jesus Christ.  I am not sure who other than a priest I could be expected to seek spiritual guidance from.

It certainly wouldn't be Gnevin, that much I can tell you

If you believe in God and Jesus then you are a Christian. If you want to go down to a church and listen to a priest then you are a catholic. Why do you need to seek guidance from priests or popes that know nothing more than any of us. Are you not able to form your own opinions of the bible? The church has shown that it is corrupt and self serving and not just with regards to child abuse but generally by way of keeping power.

I too am a father of a 2 year old. It makes me sick to think of what these f**ks have done to kids. I can't believe the power this corrupt nasty organisation has wielded in my country.  I hope now that people will awaken from the trance they are in and finally see the truth.

I have my own reasons for my faith.  I wouldn't have said this 10 years ago or even 5 years ago but there you go, things happen, people change - my own faith has changed over a long period of time from at one time being on the point of entering a seminary, it then got a lot less strong to the point where I was hardly attending Mass... and now it is something I want to do, I want to have a Catholic marriage and raise my kids as Catholics.  That's something I sought in a life-long partner and thankfully got.  That's where I am at myles, in a way it's because I want to be the same sort of father that mine was to me but on a much deeper level it's because of a lot of other things that all told me that being a Catholic is the most important thing for me and my family

[longrunsthefox]

You are a very genuine fellow and as are many who go to mass. That's freedom... to go or not to go... I don't believe not going to mass means  a person has lost faith or God, but then you didn't say it does. There are those in the church do think that. I have young children too and they say goodnight to God every night and a wee prayer. I don't feel inclined to take them to mass. They don't really want to go anyway     

[Myles Na G.]

If a local youth club or GAA club was involved in raping children and the same people who covered it up were in charge, would it still get community suport? Wouldn't darken the door. As early posters said, GOD is everywhere and the church have no monopoly on it. The devil, or evil, sure has been in the church alrite.

The Church hasn't got the monopoly on having evil in its midst.
A paedophile who for decades has abused numerous children managed to get elected to high office in Ulster GAA. When I say numerous, think of multiples of classroom numbers of them.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/1004333.stm

I have no doubt this paedophile used his special position in county GAA and provincial GAA as his evidence that he must be a good man and protect himself from the rumours/suspicions down through the years. I have no doubt that many of those in suits were scurrying around afterwards saying they knew absolutely nothing.

The GAA acknowledges that cases against members are in progress and that convictions have been obtained but it does not offer any details, of positions they held, not even of the numbers involved.

That doesnt have any relevance to what we're talking about main street.

With respect pints, MS does have a point.  His point is, he may correct may if I am wrong, that the Church is no different to any other organisation in terms of the amount of paedophiles are involved in it.

I would disagree with that. I think the church has a disproportionate number of paedophiles in it. The fact that so many seem drawn to the priesthood, should make people take a good hard look at how the church is set up and how it operates. But it won't, because ultimately the church is still run by a lot of celibate old men who won't relinquish their grip on the reins of power voluntarily.

[tyssam5]

Has anyone read the report, is there a link to it?

[muppet]

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB09000504