Clerical abuse!

[muppet]

As usual it's all about the money.

It is true that the Church is prioritising its money over victims, by objecting to allowing victims over the age of 23 take civil cases, but they are also objecting to them taking criminal cases as well. Thus they are denying victims of clerical abuse any justice at all. The abuse continues.

God's missionaries indeed.

[muppet]

The Church should not have to foot the bill.As I have said before the people responsible for child abuse are the perverts who carried it out.Let the law take its course and sue the abusers.

I'll start with the last bit. I agree completely. Of course the Church had a duty of care to the children, which it frequently abandoned in favour of covering up abuse, so any reasonably fair court will push the Church if it is found in breach of that duty of care. So yes, let the courts decide. But of course the article above shows the Church lobbying against letting cases go to court.

As for the first bit, the whole basis of Catholicism starts with our collective responsibility for Original Sin. It is the entire basis of some of the sacraments and of our status as sinners before we are even born. We 'foot the bill' for Adam & Eve. The Church shouldn't be allowed off the hook for its breaches of its duty of care.

[Lar Naparka]

I agree with you for once.Let those who committed the abuse pay the price.

Problem is, Tony, that those clerics who abused children did so in the full knowledge that their superiors knew what they were up to. By their inaction and downright connivance those in positions of authority facilitated the culture of passing acts of paedophilia off as mere sins with absolution and the freedom to continue as before the only @penalty' they had to face.
I don't hold Brendan Smyth totally responsible for the crimes he committed when it was obvious that he had serious psychiatric problems and was obviously incapable of thinking rationally.
For me, Sean Brady is, at the very least, at least as culpable as Brendan Smyth.

[muppet]

Complete tosh.The Church did not connive or facilitate paedophilia.It grossly mishandled accusations of same due to fear and embarrassment,which was wrong.True Smyth should have been drummed out of the Church by those with the power to do so (Sean Brady did not have that power) and handed to the Police (if that had made any difference given that the Police in the 70s moved a cleric across the border,suspected of involvement in a fatal bombing in the 70s).

Paedophiles alone are responsible for paedophilia,not the Catholic Church or Councils in Rotherham etc,and they alone should pay the price.

The Pope disagrees with you Tony:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/pope-francis-bishops-who-covered-up-for-abuse-guilty-of-wrongdoing/

....."Those who covered this up are guilty," he said. "There are even some bishops who covered this up. It's something horrible."......

[muppet]

"Covering up" due to shame,embarrassment, fear or panic,while absolutely wrong is not the same as connivance or facilitating child abuse

You feel the same about 'collusion'?

[muppet]

Collusion means complicity facilitating an act or plan.Covering up,out of shame fear embarrassment, after an event,while totally wrong and ultimately self defeating,is not connivance,collusion or facilitating.

Collusion, as defined by Irish Judge Peter Smithwick, and referenced by Dr. Michael Maguire who produced today's report on the RUC, is defined inter alia, as: '"While (collusion) generally means the commission of an act, I am also of the view that it should be considered in terms of an omission or failure to act.' *

There can be no doubt that such a definition applies to many of the hierarchy in the Catholic Church.

In 2004 Canadian Judge Peter Corry included the following in his definition of collusion: '..."to co-operate secretly: to have a secret understanding."....' *

That would appear to cover many of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church as well. Isn't it about time we had a proper enquiry into collusion between Church leaders and Church pedophiles?


* Quotes from the following article: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20682687

[longballin]

Collusion means complicity facilitating an act or plan.Covering up,out of shame fear embarrassment, after an event,while totally wrong and ultimately self defeating,is not connivance,collusion or facilitating.

of course it was church collusion... moving paedo priests to other areas to do the same...

[muppet]

For anyone that hasn't seen this...

https://www.facebook.com/gareth.ocallaghan.1/posts/646772968803836:0

[Lar Naparka]

Collusion means complicity facilitating an act or plan.Covering up,out of shame fear embarrassment, after an event,while totally wrong and ultimately self defeating,is not connivance,collusion or facilitating.

For once I agree with you Tony. It's perverting the course of justice and in England and Wales it is a common law offence, carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

[seafoid]

For anyone that hasn't seen this...

https://www.facebook.com/gareth.ocallaghan.1/posts/646772968803836:0

Christ

[laoislad]

For anyone that hasn't seen this...

https://www.facebook.com/gareth.ocallaghan.1/posts/646772968803836:0

Christ

+1

That was tough to read.

[seafoid]

Collusion means complicity facilitating an act or plan.Covering up,out of shame fear embarrassment, after an event,while totally wrong and ultimately self defeating,is not connivance,collusion or facilitating.

Child abuse is a brutal system. Based on fear.


http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-dont-have-to-be-afraid-of-him-brave-victim-who-snared-evil-cooke-haunted-by-little-girl-i-couldnt-save-34907175.html

He intimidated children into silence by continually threatening that they would be sent to a children's home if their parents found out.

The abuse stopped when Anne was 10. But the damage was done. Her education suffered, she was angry, she self-harmed and she drank. All the while, Cooke remained a malevolent presence, driving around in his Radio Dublin Jag, very often with children in the passenger seat.

Anne didn't tell her parents until she was 18, only then when the mother of another of Cooke's victims encouraged her.

 
Her father immediately booked her into the Rape Crisis Centre. But it was the mid-1980s and there was no talk at that time of reporting him to gardai.

Anne went to Kilmainham garda station off her own bat, with a friend. "I sat in a room, told them what Eamon Cooke was, told them he had abused me as a child."

Weeks later, Cooke showed up at the little grocery shop where she worked. She reached for a knife and told him to get out. The next time he stopped his Jaguar outside the shop, a girl of six in the passenger seat whom he sent in for cigarettes. He grinned "sickeningly" at Anne. "For years that girl haunted me," she wrote in her memoir"

Facilitating it so that the Church could have power was nuts.

Imagine raping a child with a crucifix.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/paedophile-priest-had-links-to-other-infamous-child-abusers-34870722.html

What would Jesus say ?

[seafoid]

Gareth O Callaghan is doing amazing work
https://www.facebook.com/gareth.ocallaghan.1

Most of the paedos in he 70s would appear to have been protected by power.

[T Fearon]

This seems to be a mix of laity and so called perverts masquerading as clergy.I never liked Michael Cleary and that was before his double life came to public knowledge.I note the Gardai interviewed Walsh in 1995,which disproves the theory of Church protection never mind the ludicrous claim.of facilitation.The part of the Church with too much power was in the form of individual clerics like Cleary who seemed to run their own fiefdoms.

[laoislad]

It's everyones fault apart from the Church.....