Clerical abuse!

[Puckoon]

You are right of course. It's currently more on a par with a tyranny. One of the priests in there at least has his finger on the pulse. The church will be left behind if they don't step it up.

You can't keep your head in the sand forever, lest some liberal reformer type hits you a good boot in the hole.

[Pangurban]

Doubtless they will feel a little better about themselves, as we all do when we get the opportunity to air our grievances, but i am certain nothing will change, at least in the short term. Unless they are prepared to contemplate an open schism with the Church, which i dont believe they are, then the present exercise is futile

[Ulick]

BBC news at lunchtime were reporting 1000 priests attending that conference. From that clip, at least half in the room were women. What gives?

[orangeman]

He's for sitting tight.


Cardinal Brady apologises to abuse victim Brendan Boland

Cardinal Sean Brady has said he wants to personally apologise to a man who was abused as a 14-year-old boy by paedophile priest Brendan Smyth.


He said he had no intention of stepping aside but hoped an assistant - with succession rights - would be quickly appointed to his archdiocese.

Speaking to Irish broadcaster RTE on Monday, Cardinal Brady said he wanted to "apologise without hesitation" to Brendan Boland "and to any victim".

"I offered that apology last Christmas, I offered to come and see him in person," he said.

"He wanted a public apology, it didn't happen, but I repeat now that I publicly apologise to him."

The 72-year-old said he wanted to apologise personally "at the earliest opportunity".


The cardinal said he intended to remain as primate "until I'm 75, or unless the Holy See indicated it didn't want me to stay".


He said there was absolutely no indication from the Vatican that it wanted him to resign.

Last week, a BBC documentary uncovered new revelations about an internal Church investigation into clerical child sex abuse in 1975.

It said a teenage boy who had been sexually abused by Fr Brendan Smyth gave the names and addresses of other children who were at risk from the paedophile priest to Cardinal Brady, who at that time was a 36-year-old priest.

He passed the allegations to his superiors but did not inform the police or the children's parents.

Fr Smyth continued to sexually assault one of the boys for a year after that.

He also abused the boy's sister for seven years, and four of his cousins, up until 1988.

"Definitely the parents should have been informed. That's quite clear," Cardinal Brady told RTE.

But Cardinal Brady accused the documentary makers of exaggerating his role. He said he had been present simply to take notes, and that he had reported to more senior clergy whom he expected to take appropriate action.

Cardinal Brady previously apologised over the issue during Mass on St Patrick's Day in 2010.

He said: "I have listened to reaction from people to my role in events 35 years ago.

"I want to say to anyone who has been hurt by any failure on my part that I apologise to you with all my heart.

"I also apologise to all those who feel I have let them down.

"Looking back I am ashamed that I have not always upheld the values that I profess and believe in."

[Leo]

Cardinal Brady says he never met or spoke to Brendan Smith
Cardinal Brady taught for 13 years in Cavan town, 15 miles from the infamous Kilnacrott Abbey.
A former student of the school, who was abused by Smith, says Smith was a frequent visitor to the school.
Cavan must be a mighty big place.

[orangeman]

Cardinal Brady says he never met or spoke to Brendan Smith
Cardinal Brady taught for 13 years in Cavan town, 15 miles from the infamous Kilnacrott Abbey.
A former student of the school, who was abused by Smith, says Smith was a frequent visitor to the school.
Cavan must be a mighty big place.

It is possible that Fr. Brady never spoke or met Brendan Smyth so I'd accept what Cardinal Brady is saying. I can't see him wanting to get caught out over something as fundamental as that.

[Lar Naparka]

I'm surprised that the call by the archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Diarmuid Martin, for an independent investigation into allegations of clerical child abuse has not had more media attention.
Archbishop Martin said a commission should be set up to examine all accusations against Brendan Smyth.
Such a commission, if it ever gets off the ground, could come up with some very interesting findings.

You can read about it here:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/archbishop-martin-calls-for-abuse-probe-550434.html#ixzz1uEQnaxIe

[Hardy]

BBC news at lunchtime were reporting 1000 priests attending that conference. From that clip, at least half in the room were women. What gives?

What I found interesting about the clips of the attendance was that I only saw one person under thirty and nobody else who was under 60.

[Applesisapples]

BBC news at lunchtime were reporting 1000 priests attending that conference. From that clip, at least half in the room were women. What gives?

What I found interesting about the clips of the attendance was that I only saw one person under thirty and nobody else who was under 60.

That in itself should tell the church it has a problem, even those most likely to follow it's teachings more faithfully...older people are saying time for change. Is there no way parishes can take control and secede as CoE parishes have?

[Ulick]

That in itself should tell the church it has a problem, even those most likely to follow it's teachings more faithfully...older people are saying time for change. Is there no way parishes can take control and secede as CoE parishes have?

"secede as CoE parishes have" - what's this?

"That in itself should tell the church it has a problem". Maybe but these priests are the people that have overseen the decline of the Catholic Church in this country, so maybe they should be looking to themselves as to the reasons why this has happend. Have they failed in their duty of teaching the 'faith' to their parishioners? By faith, I meaning the teachings of the Magisterium, not the homespun pseudo bollocks Brian Darcy puts out in the local gutter rag.

One thing to consider. Why is it that vocations in the mainstream Church are falling while at the same time traditionalist groups such as FSSP, ICRSS, IGS, and SSPX are inundated and don't have enough seminary places to keep up with demand?

[Applesisapples]

I am not a subscriber to the Sunday World so can't comment on Brian D'Arcy's work. What I can't square with my Christian Faith is why the Church can't let Priests marry, what other than tradition stands in the way of women priests and where in the Bible does it say that using condoms to prevent aids is wrong? I also can't square the Churches teaching that Homosexuality is evil...Why would God make people Gay if they are intrinsically evil. I ask my self what would Christ do? He certainly wouldn't abuse Children, his disciples were married and I can't see him condemning a normal man to a life of suppressed desires and sexuality. as for the groups you mention they are fanatics and small in number that is why they are oversubscribed. I asked out of curiosity if it is possible for whole parishes to upsticks and secede (as in break away) from the CoR as parishes in the CoE have done.

[ziggy90]

That in itself should tell the church it has a problem, even those most likely to follow it's teachings more faithfully...older people are saying time for change. Is there no way parishes can take control and secede as CoE parishes have?

"secede as CoE parishes have" - what's this?

"That in itself should tell the church it has a problem". Maybe but these priests are the people that have overseen the decline of the Catholic Church in this country, so maybe they should be looking to themselves as to the reasons why this has happend. Have they failed in their duty of teaching the 'faith' to their parishioners? By faith, I meaning the teachings of the Magisterium, not the homespun pseudo bollocks Brian Darcy puts out in the local gutter rag.

One thing to consider. Why is it that vocations in the mainstream Church are falling while at the same time traditionalist groups such as FSSP, ICRSS, IGS, and SSPX are inundated and don't have enough seminary places to keep up with demand?


Who and what are those groups you mention? Genuinely interested.

[Ulick]

I am not a subscriber to the Sunday World so can't comment on Brian D'Arcy's work. What I can't square with my Christian Faith is why the Church can't let Priests marry, what other than tradition stands in the way of women priests and where in the Bible does it say that using condoms to prevent aids is wrong? I also can't square the Churches teaching that Homosexuality is evil...Why would God make people Gay if they are intrinsically evil. I ask my self what would Christ do? He certainly wouldn't abuse Children, his disciples were married and I can't see him condemning a normal man to a life of suppressed desires and sexuality. as for the groups you mention they are fanatics and small in number that is why they are oversubscribed. I asked out of curiosity if it is possible for whole parishes to upsticks and secede (as in break away) from the CoR as parishes in the CoE have done.

"What I can't square with my Christian Faith is why the Church can't let Priests marry, what other than tradition stands in the way of women priests and where in the Bible does it say that using condoms to prevent aids is wrong?  I also can't square the Churches teaching that Homosexuality is evil...Why would God make people Gay if they are intrinsically evil."

Those are questions to which every Catholic should know the answer but the fact that few do, is a failing not necessarily of the Church but of the priests, who's duty it is to teach their congregation Church doctrine. Your (might I say Protestant) reflex to go look for supporting evidence in the bible, for example, about women priests is a complete misunderstanding of how the Church position is established. Catholic dogma is derived not just from the Bible but also from Tradition i.e. from belief passed down through the years and declared as binding by the Magisterium. If you want to question the ban on women priests in the Catholic Church then the Bible is not necessarily the place to start.

"where in the Bible does it say that using condoms to prevent aids is wrong". Catholics are allowed to use barrier contraception if there is a risk of passing on a disease to the husband or wife. Every Catholic knows that surely?

"I also can't square the Churches teaching that Homosexuality is evil...Why would God make people Gay if they are intrinsically evil." Firstly, the Catholic Church does not teach that a persons sexual orientation is "intrinsically" linked to the person as a whole, so again you are misrepresenting Catholic dogma. The Church believes that homosexual acts are sinful not the person. In much the same way it believes that sex up the bum, masturbation or otherwise ejaculation outside of the body is sinful for married couples. Committing one of these acts is sinful, but no more makes the homosexual person evil than it makes the married person evil for having a w**k.

"I ask my self what would Christ do? He certainly wouldn't abuse Children, his disciples were married and I can't see him condemning a normal man to a life of suppressed desires and sexuality." I don't buy the link between clerical chastity and child abuse as there have been as many cases of child abuse from clerics in other Churches which allow their pastors to marry. Perhaps you have read something I'm not aware off?

"as for the groups you mention they are fanatics and small in number that is why they are oversubscribed." Nonsense. You say they are fanatics, because they keep with Catholic Tradition and actually teach Catholic Church doctrine and dogma. Perhaps if the rest of the clergy were as well versed in Catholic teaching as these traditionalist clerics then the faithful would actually understand their Church's position on modern issues. In two years of attending traditionalist Mass and sermons, I learned more about Catholic Church teaching than 35 years going to Mass in the mainstream Church were the priests are more focused on being everyone's mate instead of actually telling them what they're doing might be sinful or contrary to Church teaching. I don't necessarily agree with that doctrine, but at least the traditionalist priests will outline and explain the Catholic position. When was the last time you heard a priest at Novus Ordo Mass tell and explain Church teaching on homosexuality, homosexual acts, clerical celibacy, contraception or marital relations? Personally, I'd never heard it, until I attended a Tridentine Mass.

"parishes to upsticks and secede (as in break away) from the CoR as parishes in the CoE have done." People left the Church of England to join the Catholic Ordinariate. They did this as individuals (or in cases as a group lead by their pastor) because they believe Catholic doctrine and practice more in tune with their beliefs than the Church of England. There is nothing stopping Catholics from going the other way if they wish. In fact I'm sure the Church of England and Church of Ireland would welcome disillusioned Catholics with open arms, though they may find it a case of the faraway field being greener. But hey, if it's just a matter of hanging out with some fellow trendy liberal Christians who don't really believe in that much other than a divine spiritual being then it could be a good move.

[ziggy90]

f**king Hell Ulick. You seem to know your stuff.

[Ulick]

Who and what are those groups you mention? Genuinely interested.

Mostly groups who adhere more rigidly to Catholic tradition and dogma. Many will still say the old Latin Mass and practice customs and traditions which have mostly died out in the mainstream Church in Ireland. The Irish Latin Mass Society is probably the first place to look if you are interested in the traditionalists (http://www.latinmassireland.org/). Of the groups I mentioned:

FSSP: Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter
ICRSS: Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, based in Limerick and serving Munster.
SSPX: Society of Saint Pius X in Ireland (Main house and church in Athlone, church in Dublin and weekly Mass in Belfast, Cork, Newry, Tipp and Kerry.