Clerical abuse!

[mylestheslasher]

Finally a considered response from Rome :

The Vatican has issued its response to criticism of it by the Government following the release of the Cloyne Report.

The Vatican issued the 20-page response addressed to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Eamon Gilmore.

The statement from the Vatican says "it has significant reservations that the speech made by Enda Kenny TD in the Dáil on the 20th of July, in particular, the accusation that the Holy See attempted to frustrate an inquiry in a sovereign democratic republic, is unfounded."

The statement added that the Holy See wishes to make it quite clear that it in no way hampered or sought to interfere in any inquiry into cases of child sexual abuse in the Diocese of Cloyne.

Furthermore, the Vatican says that at no stage did the Holy See seek to interfere with Irish Civil law or impeded the civil authority in the exercise of its duties.

The Holy See observes that there is no evidence cited anywhere in the Cloyne Report, to support the claim that its (i.e. the Vatican's) supposed intervention contributed to the undermining of the child protection framework and guidelines of the Irish State.


The Cloyne Report scrutinized how both Church and State authorities handled complaints and allegations of child sexual abuse made against 19 priests working under Bishop John Magee in the Co Cork diocese between 1996 and 2009.


It found that Bishop Magee falsely told the Government and the HSE that the Catholic Diocese was reporting all allegations of clerical child sexual abuse to the civil authorities.


The response from the Vatican was prompted by scathing criticism levelled against it by Taoiseach Enda Kenny in the Dáil in July in which he castigated what he termed "the dysfunction, disconnection and elitism" in the Vatican.

The Vatican also responded to claims in the Cloyne Report that it referred to a Framework Document, drawn up by Irish Bishops, on how to deal with allegations of child sexual abuse as "not an official document..but merely a study document."

It says that taken out of context the comments in the letter from Archbishop Storero to Irish Bishops "could be open to misinterpretation, giving rise to understandable criticism."

It says this description was "not a dismissal of the serious efforts undertaken by Irish Bishops to address the grave problem of child sexual abuse."

Rather the congregation "wished to ensure that nothing contained in the Framework Document would give rise to difficulties should appeals be lodged to the Holy See."

The Vatican also refutes the claim that Irish Bishops sought recognition from Rome for the Framework Document but it was not forthcoming.

It says Irish Bishops did not, under Canon Law, seek 'recongnito' for the Framework Document, therefore the Holy See cannot be criticised for failing to grant what was never requested in the first place.

However, according to the Vatican, this would not have prevented applying the Framework Document in individual Dioceses

How come it took them so long to come up with this crap?

[muppet]

How come it took them so long to come up with this crap?

The truth rolls off the tongue, creating straw men takes time.

That response is for the deluded who don't question anything. It doesn't even attempt to persuade doubters, they seem to have given up on that.

The Vatican's response is only concerned with the Cloyne report. I would guess that most people felt Kenny was speaking out of frustration with the behaviour of the The Vatican for the last 3 decades (I think he actually mentioned that in his speech) and not simply Cloyne. However it doesn't suit the Vatican to deal with that so they try to put the spotlight on minor technical issues. Thus they entirely and deliberately miss the point that members of the organisation for which they are responsible, abused children and yet again one of their brethren, acting in a position of responsibility on their behalves, failed to alert the authorities here.

Look at this rubbish:

"not an official document..but merely a study document."

"....Irish Bishops did not, under Canon Law, seek 'recongnito' for the Framework Document, therefore the Holy See cannot be criticised for failing to grant what was never requested in the first place."

[NetNitrate]

The Vatican clearly showing themselves to be a hostile state. Gov should tell Vatican that their ambassador is not welcome back. That shower couldn't lie straight in bed.

[mylestheslasher]

Obviously the whole thing was scrutinised by the makey uppy cannon lawyer to make sure it was complete drivel that made its way to the Irish republic. Time for Enda to take action, enough words have been spoken.

[orangeman]

Obviously the whole thing was scrutinised by the makey uppy cannon lawyer to make sure it was complete drivel that made its way to the Irish republic. Time for Enda to take action, enough words have been spoken.

What do you reckon he should do now ?

[mylestheslasher]

Obviously the whole thing was scrutinised by the makey uppy cannon lawyer to make sure it was complete drivel that made its way to the Irish republic. Time for Enda to take action, enough words have been spoken.

What do you reckon he should do now ?

To the vatican - don't fill the vacant ambassador post and tell papal nuncio to return to Rome.

To local religion

- No more grants to build the palaces that pass as churches
- Take property from church to pay their dues to the raped victims
- Take back all schools from any church control

I could go further but I think the above is easily achieved with the right will.

[muppet]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0917/1224304268112.html

I guess he is merely following the example set by The Vatican by obfuscating.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0917/1224304268112.html

I guess he is merely following the example set by The Vatican by obfuscating.

Step back, the Roman Catholic Church V the Mammies of Ireland, there can only be one winner and it ain't the boys in the skirts.

With the Orange Order being their usual twatish selfs, organised religion is going to be majorly K.O.'d on our native Isle.

[muppet]

The Priest is on RTE radio now.

He accused the Mammies of 'failing miserably' regarding the covering up of abuse, until forced to withdraw the 'miserably' bit by the interviewer.

He denied trying to divert blame away from the Church (and thus onto the mothers) and defended his actions by arguing that he pays taxes in Ireland and that we are arguing too much amongst ourselves.

To be as polite as I can be, he came across very poorly.

[orangeman]

The Priest is on RTE radio now.

He accused the Mammies of 'failing miserably' regarding the covering up of abuse, until forced to withdraw the 'miserably' bit by the interviewer.

He denied trying to divert blame away from the Church (and thus onto the mothers) and defended his actions by arguing that he pays taxes in Ireland and that we are arguing too much amongst ourselves. To be as polite as I can be, he came across very poorly.

I listened to that this morning and simply couldn't believe that was coming out with that stuff -  he also said at one point that he wasn't a foreign national ( whatever he meant by that ).

[mylestheslasher]

There was me thinking that all the people with this opinion were ones with silly hats. What does it say about the newspaper that published this garbage?

[Main Street]

News yesterday in the IT
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1209/1224308799476.html
that
'A SWORN statutory inquiry should be set up to investigate sex abuse complaints and concerns about former archbishop of Dublin John Charles McQuaid, the One in Four group has said.'

But there are no details of the witness statements which led the One in Four group to press the claim.

McQuaid has already been proven in the Murphy commission as being complicit in the rape of children by clerics. A crime if not greater - at least equal to that of the rapist.

[mylestheslasher]

Depressing carbon copy of Ireland happening in Holland. Amazing how the exact same cover ups happen in all these countries but the centre of the church on Rome knows nothing. What were some of these bastards up to in the 3rd world countries is what id like to know without any law to stop them.

20,000 children suffered abuse by Dutch priests

By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels Saturday December 17 2011 ABOUT 20,000 children have been sexually abused by 800 Roman Catholic priests or lay workers in Holland since 1945, an independent inquiry has estimated. The investigation received 1,800 reports of sexual abuse by clergy or volunteers within Dutch Catholic dioceses, congregations and religious orders. At least 105 of the alleged abusers are still alive. Children involved in church organisations were twice as likely as non-Catholics to be exposed to abuse and the "mild, severe or very severe sexual behaviour" was covered up by senior clergy. "The problem of sexual abuse was known in the orders and dioceses of the Dutch Catholic Church," the inquiry by Wim Deetman, a former Dutch minister, concluded. "No adequate action was taken, nor was sufficient attention devoted to victims." Based on a survey of more than 34,000 people, the Deetman report estimated that one-in-five children in Catholic school institutions between 1945 and 1985 suffered abuse. Allegations of abuse by the Salesian Fathers at the Don Rua boarding school in Heerenberg in the 1960s led to the wider investigation, in March 2010, of paedophile assaults within the church, a process mirrored in Belgium, Ireland, Germany, Australia, Canada and the US. Archbishop of Utrecht Wim Eijk apologised to victims in the wake of the inquiry. He said the report "fills us with shame and sorrow". The commission began work last year. As evidence of abuse emerged, the Dutch Catholic Church last month set up a compensation system. The total bill could be more than €4.8m. Scandals More than 2,000 people have now registered abuse with the church and Dutch authorities and a number of cases will be taken to court. "To prevent scandals, nothing was done: it was not acknowledged, there was no help, compensation or aftercare for the victims," said Mr Deetman. "There was a policy of not hanging out the dirty washing. There is a cultural silence." Guido Klabbers, from the Klokk group of child abuse victims, said: "Everyone can be shocked that this history has come in this magnitude. Everyone can be taken aback that the church has lied about this." The inquiry did not find a direct link between the Catholic requirement for clerical celibacy and the abuse of children but Mr Deetman did conclude that "sexual need" was a factor. "We do not consider it impossible that a number of cases would not have happened if celibacy was voluntary," he said. The inquiry concluded that the covered-up child sex abuse was not unique to the Catholic Church. Another Dutch commission is investigating the role of social services in placing children in institutions where they were open to abuse. (© Daily Telegraph, London) - Bruno Waterfield in Brussels

[J70]

News yesterday in the IT
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1209/1224308799476.html
that
'A SWORN statutory inquiry should be set up to investigate sex abuse complaints and concerns about former archbishop of Dublin John Charles McQuaid, the One in Four group has said.'

But there are no details of the witness statements which led the One in Four group to press the claim.

McQuaid has already been proven in the Murphy commission as being complicit in the rape of children by clerics. A crime if not greater - at least equal to that of the rapist.

Wow! Haven't been following this too closely since emigrating, so its amazing to see even the "great" and influential John Charles McQuaid implicated! Just a shame that the country didn't face up to this shit years ago when men like him were still alive.

[Main Street]

I'm sure St Peter had a full account though