“East Leinster Project” - Dublin’s Neighbours to get Enhanced Funding

Started by Lar Naparka, August 27, 2016, 09:06:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

The Aristocrat

All the 1,904,806 persons play Gaelic football? Wow.

Dublin senior football team = divisions 1-3, that's the playing population.


Lar Naparka

Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
All the 1,904,806 persons play Gaelic football? Wow.

Dublin senior football team = divisions 1-3, that's the playing population.
No son, they don't but sponsors do take not of the potential market and that's why Dublin will always find it easier to attract sponsors than, say, Mayo or Donegal and money comes in handy when you are preparing a team.
You've a better chance of finding top class players among a population of 1,904,806 than if you only had 130,425, which is the number in Mayo and that almost one tenth of Dublin's one.
Besides Dublin doesn't have the cost or the hassle associated with having to get players tp travel long distances to and from work/college either.
You may have only three divisions but you have 60 plus GDAs to ensure that those who get to senior club level are the pick of the crop and have been developed up through the ranks since juveniles.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

armaghniac

Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
All the 1,904,806 persons play Gaelic football? Wow.

Dublin senior football team = divisions 1-3, that's the playing population.

Puerile comment. Not everyone plays in any county.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Rossfan

Looking ahead what percentage of the 1,9m are males aged 0-17?
Bet it's twice the percentage of Roscommon's 65,000.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

The Aristocrat

Gents gents gents, Divisions 1-3 maybe one or two from 4 and 5 Senior football leagues is Dublin Senior football team playing population.

Dublin have always had the population, why is it upsetting you all now?  We know why because they got their house in order and are winning all Irelands!




armaghniac

As I pointed out here before,  when the GAA  was founded Dublin's population was only twice that of Mayo,  and a lot of those were in British army barracks etc.

So saying things like Dublin always had the population is also misleading.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

The Aristocrat

Quote from: armaghniac on September 02, 2016, 03:23:27 PM
As I pointed out here before,  when the GAA  was founded Dublin's population was only twice that of Mayo,  and a lot of those were in British army barracks etc.

So saying things like Dublin always had the population is also misleading.

Understood but you know what I mean, last 50 years or so.

Zulu

Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 02, 2016, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
All the 1,904,806 persons play Gaelic football? Wow.

Dublin senior football team = divisions 1-3, that's the playing population.

You've a better chance of finding top class players among a population of 1,904,806 than if you only had 130,425, which is the number in Mayo and that almost one tenth of Dublin's one.

Not quite true, the research shows that there is a disproportionate number of elite athletes who come from areas with approx. 100,000 people. If you want your kid to be an elite athlete move to a city of 100,000!!

These discussions are pointless and unfairness is inbuilt in the GAA. Of course Dublin are dominating because of population and finance but also because of great work being done by an army of volunteers. No point in moaning about that when Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Tipp. Kerry etc. enjoy those advantages over Leitrim, Longford, Offaly etc.

You want a fair format, then scrap the counties, if you don't want to do that then suck it up. A lot of us have had to live in the shadows of the big counties for over 100 years.

Rossfan

My imagined ten regional teams based on more equal populations would at least ensure a more level playing field on that score anyway.
Can we see a future when we'll have both Counties and Regions??
Club Championships May/June, Inter County Championship July/August and Regional Championship September/October.
At least the Emlyn Mulligans of the future would get the chance of showcasing their talents to bigger audiences than at present.
His annual 9 or rare 10 competitive games hardly attract 15,000 people in total.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Zulu on September 02, 2016, 04:40:40 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on September 02, 2016, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: The Aristocrat on September 02, 2016, 08:17:26 AM
All the 1,904,806 persons play Gaelic football? Wow.

Dublin senior football team = divisions 1-3, that's the playing population.

You've a better chance of finding top class players among a population of 1,904,806 than if you only had 130,425, which is the number in Mayo and that almost one tenth of Dublin's one.

Not quite true, the research shows that there is a disproportionate number of elite athletes who come from areas with approx. 100,000 people. If you want your kid to be an elite athlete move to a city of 100,000!!

These discussions are pointless and unfairness is inbuilt in the GAA. Of course Dublin are dominating because of population and finance but also because of great work being done by an army of volunteers. No point in moaning about that when Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Tipp. Kerry etc. enjoy those advantages over Leitrim, Longford, Offaly etc.

You want a fair format, then scrap the counties, if you don't want to do that then suck it up. A lot of us have had to live in the shadows of the big counties for over 100 years.
Now, now no more of that!  ;D
My point still stands. I don't want my kids, or anyone else's, to be elite athletes; just GAA supporters and players if possible.
Here, the odds of Dublin having more players than Mayo is a given.
Anyway, as you say this hypothesising is pure daft. Other counties will aways be in with a shout because Dublin has to field just 15 layers at any one time and that's the same number as whoever opposes them and anything can happen on a given day.
But crucially Dublin will be there or thereabouts every third Sunday in September and the same can't be said of any of the others. I think the aim of the Dublin development plan was to see Dublin winning an average of one in every three AIs.
I'd shorten the odds to 2, or even 3, out of 5.

I've also said repeatedly that I have no personal grudge against Jim Gavin or his players. They are doing what any other county would do under the same circumstances. Good luck to them; they are not at fault but the intercounty model is.
Far too many counties have no realistic hope of winning Sam and the number is increasing.
My grouse is aimed at some (many?) Dublin supporters both here and elsewhere who go gung ho every time the Dubs win a match and won't accept that the odds are stacked in their favour every time.
According to them, Dublin's success can be put down to the sheer talent of the present squad alone and when Connolly, Brogan, Flynn etc. retire, Dublin will sink back into the peloton once more.
That just isn't going to happen because there's a hell of a lot more going for Dublin than the present team''s natural abilities.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

armaghniac

Quote from: Zulu on September 02, 2016, 04:40:40 PM
These discussions are pointless and unfairness is inbuilt in the GAA. Of course Dublin are dominating because of population and finance but also because of great work being done by an army of volunteers. No point in moaning about that when Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Tipp. Kerry etc. enjoy those advantages over Leitrim, Longford, Offaly etc.

Mayo enjoys a 4 fold advantage over Leitrim, not the 10 times Dublin has over Mayo. And of course Dublin enjoys a 40 fold advantage over Mayo, and growing.

Mayo is broadly similar in size to a large set of Irish counties. Dublin is a monster and a growing one.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Zulu

Using population is a false comparison. In terms of playing population we should be comparing underage playing populations and if we did that then the gap between Dublin and the rest narrows. Besides what are you saying, the Dublin advantage over Mayo, Kerry etc. is so big it's unfair but Mayo's advantages over Leitrim is reasonable so is not unfair?

Nobody is saying Dublin don't enjoy serious advantages over the rest of us but it is utter nonsense to moan about it unless you're advocating the abolishment of the county system. What difference is it to Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford and many more if you break up Dublin into 2, 4 or even 8 teams? Break up Cork, Kerry,
Mayo, Meath etc. and then everyone is plying from an even base but I think few want that.

armaghniac

Quote from: Zulu on September 03, 2016, 12:01:09 PM
Nobody is saying Dublin don't enjoy serious advantages over the rest of us but it is utter nonsense to moan about it unless you're advocating the abolishment of the county system. What difference is it to Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford and many more if you break up Dublin into 2, 4 or even 8 teams? Break up Cork, Kerry,
Mayo, Meath etc. and then everyone is plying from an even base but I think few want that.

It is for Leitrim to articulate whether they are unhappy with the present situation.
And while you might have a case with Cork, breaking up median sized counties is ridiculous.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Zulu

Why? How many Connacht titles have Leitrim won compared to Mayo? If we are talking about fairness surely the only reason Mayo have been so successful compared to Leitrim is population? They both are passionate about football and have very little hurling so population seems to be the clear difference.

Small counties have always been unhappy about the current situation but if they raised it they'd be laughed out of congress by the counties with 100,000 plus populations but now that Dublin are dominating the those counties they are crying foul.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that Dublin have major advantages and that if they dominate most years it won't be good for the sport. However, if we go down the route of changing the county format I see no reason why it's fair to weaken Dublin so the Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone's of the world can beat them while allowing those same counties retain their advantages over Leitrim etc.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Zulu on September 03, 2016, 12:01:09 PM
Using population is a false comparison. In terms of playing population we should be comparing underage playing populations and if we did that then the gap between Dublin and the rest narrows. Besides what are you saying, the Dublin advantage over Mayo, Kerry etc. is so big it's unfair but Mayo's advantages over Leitrim is reasonable so is not unfair?

Nobody is saying Dublin don't enjoy serious advantages over the rest of us but it is utter nonsense to moan about it unless you're advocating the abolishment of the county system. What difference is it to Carlow, Leitrim, Waterford and many more if you break up Dublin into 2, 4 or even 8 teams? Break up Cork, Kerry,
Mayo, Meath etc. and then everyone is plying from an even base but I think few want that.
It most certainly does not!!
I don't know where you got your figures from but they are in variance with fact to put it delicately.
I have mentioned the report commissioned by Peter Quinn back in the early 90s that dealt in part with the numbers of underage players in Dulin and to a lesser extent those in other counties.
One of the key findings was that 5 Dublin clubs at that time could field a greater umber of juveniles than any of five different counties. Meanwhile, the number of mega clubs in Dublin has been increasing and the numbers of juvenile players in most counties has been dropping- you can blame rural depopulation for that.
I mentioned earlier that a Skerries Harps member told me that his club had a total of 70 (give or take maybe two) teams. Meanwhile in Mayo an Intermediate club bears the name of Parke-Keelogues-Crimlin.
No pfrizes for guessing why this club has such a long name.

BTW, out of curiosity, 'where did you get those juvenile numbers from?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi