Westminster Election 12th December 2019

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

On the border poll, as a nationalists I'm sick to death of SF bringing this up with out any idea of a plan to deliver it, they wouldn't deliver a majority within their own community let alone NI.

The numbers are not there unfortunately. We would lose it 60/40 at the minute. Far too many nationalists would vote to stay within the UK. Maybe 5 years of Boris and non EU membership will change that.
SF need to concentrate on actually appearing to do some work. A protest party at the very best at the minute. The correct calibre of politician is not there at the minute or at least  are not allowed to progress within the party.
Listened to Eoin O'Broin there on Thursday, why isn't he on more instead of Maskey, McCallion, Anderson et al, fishwives and balloon heads thon

[Milltown Row2]

On the border poll, as a nationalists I'm sick to death of SF bringing this up with out any idea of a plan to deliver it, they wouldn't deliver a majority within their own community let alone NI.

The numbers are not there unfortunately. We would lose it 60/40 at the minute. Far too many nationalists would vote to stay within the UK. Maybe 5 years of Boris and non EU membership will change that.
SF need to concentrate on actually appearing to do some work. A protest party at the very best at the minute. The correct calibre of politician is not there at the minute or at least  are not allowed to progress within the party.
Listened to Eoin O'Broin there on Thursday, why isn't he on more instead of Maskey, McCallion, Anderson et al, fishwives and balloon heads thon

I think the strategy is to get one done soon, look at the results from it and then in ten years be better prepared. There's no chance it'll happen soon.

Like I said earlier you'd really need to question yourself if you ballot to remain part of the UK if you're a nationalist, the stats for everyone to look at have to be perfect, and the Irish government would need to bend over backwards to appeal to the soft unionists that financially it's s great choice, and for a good period be able to self govern so things can be bed in.

Are there any models they can look at that have worked well?

[imtommygunn]

Really scotland need to go first.

[five points]

Like I said earlier you'd really need to question yourself if you ballot to remain part of the UK if you're a nationalist, the stats for everyone to look at have to be perfect, and the Irish government would need to bend over backwards to appeal to the soft unionists that financially it's s great choice, and for a good period be able to self govern so things can be bed in.

Hardly. The Irish economy tends to collapse every 20-30 years or so. 11 years ago we ended up coming within a hair's breadth of having neither dole paid nor money in ATM machines. In addition our tax burden is much heavier than up north and ain't getting any lighter.

[five points]

Really scotland need to go first.

Salmond's upcoming rape trial and finding out who or did or didn't know of the allegations against him while he enjoyed high office might well set that timetable back quite a bit.

[RadioGAAGAA]

It's not O'Neill's leadership. It's not going to work. Either in Stormont or Westminster. Replacing O'Neill and not turning up won't make any difference. You have to go to your work and sort Education and Health and Infrastructure and Agriculture. SF aren't doing that and they will continue to be punished by the electorate.

It is O'Neill.

If you asked me to name the biggest obstruction to a United Ireland right now - I'd say its Michelle O'Neill.

They should not be talking about a border poll.

They should instead be
- constantly pointing out what would become better in the North if there was a United Ireland.
- publishing studies on how a transition might be managed.
- publishing frameworks for protecting Ulster-Scots culture.
- publishing forecasts on economic growth as a result of unification.

... and I don't mean get their own to draw up the above. I mean inviting academics and experts from across the world (I'm sure the EU and ROI would be interested in funding some of it anyway) to compile studies, recommendations and projections.

[ned]

Really scotland need to go first.

Salmond's upcoming rape trial and finding out who or did or didn't know of the allegations against him while he enjoyed high office might well set that timetable back quite a bit.

Allegations, remember! (not suggesting innocence or guilt, by the way). That trial will have no bearing. It's his reputation that will be damaged not the Independence movement's.

[Rossfan]

It's not O'Neill's leadership. It's not going to work. Either in Stormont or Westminster. Replacing O'Neill and not turning up won't make any difference. You have to go to your work and sort Education and Health and Infrastructure and Agriculture. SF aren't doing that and they will continue to be punished by the electorate.

It is O'Neill.

If you asked me to name the biggest obstruction to a United Ireland right now - I'd say its Michelle O'Neill.

They should not be talking about a border poll.

They should instead be
- constantly pointing out what would become better in the North if there was a United Ireland.
- publishing studies on how a transition might be managed.
- publishing frameworks for protecting Ulster-Scots culture.
- publishing forecasts on economic growth as a result of unification.

... and I don't mean get their own to draw up the above. I mean inviting academics and experts from across the world (I'm sure the EU and ROI would be interested in funding some of it anyway) to compile studies, recommendations and projections.

Good post and spot on.
Also need to dump Maryloo and Michelle and appoint proper leadership.

[seafoid]

It's not O'Neill's leadership. It's not going to work. Either in Stormont or Westminster. Replacing O'Neill and not turning up won't make any difference. You have to go to your work and sort Education and Health and Infrastructure and Agriculture. SF aren't doing that and they will continue to be punished by the electorate.

It is O'Neill.

If you asked me to name the biggest obstruction to a United Ireland right now - I'd say its Michelle O'Neill.

They should not be talking about a border poll.

They should instead be
- constantly pointing out what would become better in the North if there was a United Ireland.
- publishing studies on how a transition might be managed.
- publishing frameworks for protecting Ulster-Scots culture.
- publishing forecasts on economic growth as a result of unification.

... and I don't mean get their own to draw up the above. I mean inviting academics and experts from across the world (I'm sure the EU and ROI would be interested in funding some of it anyway) to compile studies, recommendations and projections.

There are bigger obstacles than her including cost, the views of Irish/Sunday  Independent readers and the competence of the Irish Civil Service

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

On the border poll, as a nationalists I'm sick to death of SF bringing this up with out any idea of a plan to deliver it, they wouldn't deliver a majority within their own community let alone NI.

The numbers are not there unfortunately. We would lose it 60/40 at the minute. Far too many nationalists would vote to stay within the UK. Maybe 5 years of Boris and non EU membership will change that.
SF need to concentrate on actually appearing to do some work. A protest party at the very best at the minute. The correct calibre of politician is not there at the minute or at least  are not allowed to progress within the party.
Listened to Eoin O'Broin there on Thursday, why isn't he on more instead of Maskey, McCallion, Anderson et al, fishwives and balloon heads thon

I think the strategy is to get one done soon, look at the results from it and then in ten years be better prepared. There's no chance it'll happen soon.

Like I said earlier you'd really need to question yourself if you ballot to remain part of the UK if you're a nationalist, the stats for everyone to look at have to be perfect, and the Irish government would need to bend over backwards to appeal to the soft unionists that financially it's s great choice, and for a good period be able to self govern so things can be bed in.

Are there any models they can look at that have worked well?

Agreed on all points

[five points]

Really scotland need to go first.

Salmond's upcoming rape trial and finding out who or did or didn't know of the allegations against him while he enjoyed high office might well set that timetable back quite a bit.

Allegations, remember! (not suggesting innocence or guilt, by the way). That trial will have no bearing. It's his reputation that will be damaged not the Independence movement's.

Allegations indeed but even if he is acquitted (and I expect he probably will), there will be questions to answer about who knew of them and when. 

[RadioGAAGAA]

There are bigger obstacles than her including cost, the views of Irish/Sunday  Independent readers and the competence of the Irish Civil Service

Yes. Because those are going to be solved by her addressing them whining for a border poll without any forethought whatsoever.

[smelmoth]

Hanna and Eastwood will be articulate MPs who will explain the nationalist position in London very well.  All necessary to keep progressing towards a New Ireland.  In contrast, what is the point of MPs like Micky Brady and Francie Molloy.  I literally couldn't tell you what they do from one week to the next.

Hanna and Eastwood will make no difference in London - Eastwood said he'll stop Brexit, if elected. Good luck with that a chara! 

Hanna, on the other hand, is likeable but as they were saying on the radio today, she is too nice - full of general soundbites but where does she stand on a re-united Ireland etc.  Won't commit or rock the boat.  Be neutral and bei g everybody's friend won't go on forever.

what difference do SF MLAs make?
What difference do SF MPs make?
What difference do SF TDs make?

Are they fraudsters ?

Eastwood's pledge was "he'll stop Brexit", if elected.

A day later, he's re-evaluating his statement.

They'll make no difference in London - simple as.  You should read some of my other messages re: SF.

Pearse Doherty the best of the T.D.'s.  Doing great works on the mortgage crisis/banks and only this week, super work on car insurance.

As I stated before, cllrs. do more work for local people than MLAs or MPs - they make a difference locally.

Are you seriously suggesting that the people of Foyle believed that Eastwood was claiming he would stop Brexit even if Johnson had an majority of 80? They didn't believe that. You don't believe that. Your line of reasoning is daft beyond measure.

I'll have to plead ignorance on Doherty. I don't doubt he has talent but I'm unaware what he has delivered? Happy to illuminated

Imagine a politician telling porkies...who'd have thought it?

#movethegoalposts

Do some research yourself re: Doherty. You claim ignorance but, in the same sentence, say he has talent.  Strange.

P.S. When is Colum stopping Brexit - any timeline mentioned??

That is just brainless stuff.

Porkies and moving goal posts. Francis Molliy stood on a United Ireland manifesto. I'll give him to Christmas or I'll expect him to resign. If he doesn't I will get him to talk to you

I've done some research on Doherty. Decent speaker. You might even say he had a talent for it. But I didn't see any evidence of delivery on the issues you mentioned

Brainless stuff indeed...I'll stop Brexit if elected...lol.

Eastwood would have trusted the Foyle electorate to know that if all the people elected to stop Brexit are outnumbered by all the people elected to prosecute Brexit that Brexit will happen.

You seem to be of the opinion that the good people of Foyle were uniquely stupid enough to not work this out. What evidence have you for this?

[smelmoth]

Do you mind? Adults talking.

Whitey's right this time... just because a lot of staunch Labour people love Corbyn means f**k all the electorate don't and that's all that matters!!

Labour fucked up on Brexit by not having a clear stance on it, this in turn fucked up any chance they had of forming electoral pacts with Lib Dems/Greens around the place. Along with not apologising for the handling of Anti Semitism within the party and then dealing with it properly (Which I agree has been blown out of proportion but it needed to be seen to be handled a lot better than it was). Then you have the Corbyn "terrorist sympathiser" narrative which from a lot of voter opinion I've seen in the last few days was a very real thing.

All this nonsense about how "popular their policies are" is a misnomer they've just had their asses kicked the policies couldn't have been that popular!

They need a major look at how they can appeal to the masses again and appealing to a crowd of wing nuts in Momentum isn't going to work!!

Labour have 2 electorates. Their suite policies appealed to one and not the other. An about turn could amount to little more than musical chairs swapping 1 vote for another. The solution isn't easy.

[smelmoth]

It's not O'Neill's leadership. It's not going to work. Either in Stormont or Westminster. Replacing O'Neill and not turning up won't make any difference. You have to go to your work and sort Education and Health and Infrastructure and Agriculture. SF aren't doing that and they will continue to be punished by the electorate.

It is O'Neill.

If you asked me to name the biggest obstruction to a United Ireland right now - I'd say its Michelle O'Neill.

They should not be talking about a border poll.

They should instead be
- constantly pointing out what would become better in the North if there was a United Ireland.
- publishing studies on how a transition might be managed.
- publishing frameworks for protecting Ulster-Scots culture.
- publishing forecasts on economic growth as a result of unification.

... and I don't mean get their own to draw up the above. I mean inviting academics and experts from across the world (I'm sure the EU and ROI would be interested in funding some of it anyway) to compile studies, recommendations and projections.

That is the only route to a UI.