Castlederg

[cadhlancian]

Hold on a f**king minute here! For YEARS the Brits / loyalists/ unionists walked all over the top of us, simply because they could . Now, they can't , and it's driving them f**king bonkers. For the best part of 30 years they could march wherever they wanted, ban what they wanted , and get couriered in to shoot whoever the f**k they felt like shooting.
To bring Omagh into this is bullshit. Sinn Fein had and continue to have ZERO affiliation with the real Ira , who committed that horrible attack. As Nally stand correctly pointed out, they weren't going to blow up the town, but sure most of you just regurgitate what you read and hear in the news.
Maguire, I was born and bred in the north, and now live in the USA . I consider myself 100% Irish, every bit as much as yourself! Perhaps if we hadn't been left hanging by the balls 90 years ago by our southern " cousins" we wouldn't have experienced any of these tragedies? What should the people of the north have done? Those who consider themselves as Irish as you. Should they have laid down and have the unionists walk all over them ? Trust me, there were a lot of people killed in obtaining the 26 counties many years ago, to bring up the likes of Kingsmill is horseshit. Why don't you bring up king rat? A police force supposedly protecting us, actually having us killed in our own houses and pubs? Being discriminated against on a daily basis?  Shoot to kill policy?
Tell me??

[Maguire01]

"On their way to blow up a town". Good to see you're avoiding sensationalism there Maguire.

Ok then, give us your spin.

They were on their way to bomb a border customs point. This is not spin. Saying they were trying to "blow up a town" is spin.

Right, so they were going to blow up part of a town. Or a post near a town. They were probably going to kill a few people in the process. Or maybe more than a few. Possibly including civilians. Who knows, maybe even children. Either way, they were on a mission of destruction.

[lawnseed]

it was great. I could really get into this parading. the bands were class, the uniforms were cool, the speeches were good and the weather was perfect.. not too warm. it was great to meet are Tyrone brothers again. this kind of commemoration needs to be moved around each county so all our dead volunteers can be honoured for their sacrifice. we need more monuments. nothing too tacky, the one at Mullaban is class and is a nice place to sit down and say a prayer.

Are you on the wind-up or just a madman?

Unfortunately, I think he's both.

we are under no illusions the position is sinn fein are taking ownership of the past. men died for their country in a battle that couldn't be won militarily speaking.(ask Argentina)  we know where we are at and we are taking ownership of this country its not an orange state any more, we don't stare into the ground when we meet our orange neighbours,  we look then in the eye and say your British and this IS ireland but I'm willing to accept you warts and all but you have to do the same.
maybe other southern brothers could do the same and take ownership of their own country stop treating it like they borrowed it from england

What country are you taking ownership of? Surely you don't mean the 6 counties - do you think it's a country, really? Unusual viewpoint for a Shinner, but there you go. You can't mean the 32 counties, as the Shinners remain a minority party in the 26 counties, despite the fact that all of their political opponents have managed, between them, to bankrupt the state and saddle the people with shed loads of debt. Which country are you talking about? And why were you staring into the ground when you met your orange neighbours? Ashamed of something, were you? Omagh playing on your mind, was it? Or Kingsmill? Or Darkley? Or La Mons? Or Enniskillen? Or... (continue ad nauseam)

Irishmen and women will never allow republicans to take ownership of this country. The sight of Kelly walking down the road with a bunch of clowns dressed in dark sunglasses and berets, was a reminder of just why the man is unfit to run a bath, never mind a country. One day northern unionists will cotton on to the fact that the best way of sidelining w**kers like Adams and Kelly is to have an all Ireland parliament based in Dublin. They're big fish in the 6 counties. In 32 county Ireland they're nothing.

darkley? omagh? are you just adding them to have something to talk about? why not 9/11
we need to get these marches up to about 50 per county per annum. about 300 per year that's not too bad compared to 4000 loyalist parades. we need more guys strutting their stuff back and forth across the road as they march and a few big fat fellas to bang the shite out of a big bass drum with the sweat pumping out of them. also we need a few drunken oul dolls dressed in khaki with masks  around the place shouting chucky ar la.then we need a few black guys from the Caribbean with surnames like Murphy and Kelly. maybe throw in a few farc guerrillas and few bask separatists. maybe that dancing gimp priest in the kilt.
you see its like house training a pup when it shites in the house you stick its nose in it a few times then he'll learn to quit. we need to rub the loyalists noses in this shite to get them to see 'better shite somewhere where it doesn't  annoy these crowd'

[lawnseed]

"On their way to blow up a town". Good to see you're avoiding sensationalism there Maguire.

Ok then, give us your spin.

They were on their way to bomb a border customs point. This is not spin. Saying they were trying to "blow up a town" is spin.

Right, so they were going to blow up part of a town. Or a post near a town. They were probably going to kill a few people in the process. Or maybe more than a few. Possibly including civilians. Who knows, maybe even children. Either way, they were on a mission of destruction.

go away and fiddle your expenses

[EC Unique]

"On their way to blow up a town". Good to see you're avoiding sensationalism there Maguire.

Ok then, give us your spin.

They were on their way to bomb a border customs point. This is not spin. Saying they were trying to "blow up a town" is spin.

Right, so they were going to blow up part of a town. Or a post near a town. They were probably going to kill a few people in the process. Or maybe more than a few. Possibly including civilians. Who knows, maybe even children. Either way, they were on a mission of destruction.

At that stage what was the alternative? Roll over and live as second class citizens? Be completely dominated by Unionism? No harm but you obviously have no clue whatsoever what went on up here in the 70s and 80s.

[Nally Stand]

"On their way to blow up a town". Good to see you're avoiding sensationalism there Maguire.

Ok then, give us your spin.

They were on their way to bomb a border customs point. This is not spin. Saying they were trying to "blow up a town" is spin.

Right, so they were going to blow up part of a town. Or a post near a town. They were probably going to kill a few people in the process. Or maybe more than a few. Possibly including civilians. Who knows, maybe even children. Either way, they were on a mission of destruction.

Or maybe nobody might have been killed at all. Who knows. Such is the reality of war. And sure if it wasn't for the realities of war, Monaghan would be one of 32 counties under British rule right now. But sure at last absolutely no innocents were killed in that war eh?

[glens abu]

Aint taking balls mate! gerry says we do want we want regardless, thats the same attitude the orange order has, no difference!

GERRY KELLY'S ADDRESS TO TYRONE VOLUNTEERS COMMEMORATION

Is onoir mór dombsa cupla briathre a ra inniu ar na daoine as Tir Eoghan a fuair bas ar son saoirse na hEireann le linn an Cogadh fhada.

When I was asked some weeks ago to speak at the annual commemoration of the Tyrone Volunteers who lost their lives in the pursuit of Irish Independence and Freedom I was honoured to agree. As I've liste...ned over those weeks to the building media maelstrom of attacks on their memory and integrity my wish to speak at this gathering has grown in proportion to those attacks.

Let me state this clearly at the start: No Unionist MLA, Councillor, MP or Minister; no loyalist paramilitary or Loyal Order spokesperson - no matter how loud they shout, will prevent me or any other Republican honouring our comrades who gave their lives in the Struggle for Irish freedom and equality.

The Republicans and Nationalists of Castlederg / Aghyaran and of Tyrone remember the oppression of house raids, harassment, internment, collusion, imprisonment and shoot to kill. They also remember when the RUC, UDR and British Army in their thousands tried to prevent the dignified burials of our comrades killed in action.

The wrong place for Unionist politicians or Orange Order spokespersons to be at the moment is on any platform self-righteously pontificating about dead Volunteer's of the Irish Republican Army. Especially with the known closeness of the DUP to the Freeman Memorial Flute Band or North Belfast flute band which celebrates UVF man Brian Robinson or the platforms shared with loyalist paramilitaries.

There was a war, which the Orange Apartheid State caused through its institutionalised and endemic discrimination and oppression of the Catholic population over generations. It was described succinctly by Lord Craigavon as "A Protestant State for a Protestant People." Terrible things happened during that conflict. Terrible suffering was inflicted on all sides - by all sides. But let us not countenance a hierarchy of victims which would discriminate against Republicans and Nationalists not just in life, but in death also.

We are told by Unionists that Tyrone Republicans are insensitive to those who suffered at the hands of Republicans, in this area. Yet Castlederg is where Republicans have been involved in dialogue with the Loyal Orders and others within the Unionist section of our community for over 5 years. Despite the difficulties and hurt felt, the majority Nationalist population in the area have tolerated Loyal Order marches through the town which amount to almost 20 in this year alone. The majority Irish Nationalist town is also festooned with pro-British flags and emblems.

It was agreed in those talks that the centre of Castlederg should be a shared space. Yet when a single Republican commemoration parade is organised we are confronted with a deluge of orchestrated complaints. In effect we are being told that it is right for unionism to remember their British dead without interference but how dare Republicans remember their Irish dead in the same way. No discussion of the issue – just megaphone attack

When the problem was identified publicly: as Republicans parading past the cenotaph, Castlederg Republicans took an initiative and I want to congratulate them for that. They said that, this year, they would not parade around the Diamond where the cenotaph and the Methodist Church were situated.

The Parades Commission, instead of recognising this as a huge step; instead of recognising that Republicans were involved in constructive dialogue for over 5 years –restricted the parade further. Even those restrictions weren't enough for Unionists. They then demanded that honouring our dead should be banned altogether. They demanded that the British Secretary of State ban the commemoration parade and then that the PSNI ban it.

As people here know, that has been done before in our history and it did not work then and it certainly will not work now. You cannot, with any law or legislation banish the feeling of respect and pride in the hearts of Republicans for their comrades.

But lest you think that the bigotry stops there, remember, not so long ago there was a Fleadh parade in Castlederg which was not Republican and what did the same Unionists do? They opposed it. A GAA pitch was to be built and named after Marius McHugh, a local man who died of cancer and left money in his will to help pay the costs. What did the Unionists do? They opposed it. In both cases they failed but unfortunately, it shows that this is not a new phenomenon.

Despite the present difficulties, Republicans withdrew a peaceful protest against the Apprentice Boys parade yesterday to de-escalate a worsening situation. If the Orange Order had done the same in Belfast last night we would not have had the verocious attacks on the police we witnessed last night - incidentally a considerable distance from the legal parade which had been filed for.

This was then followed up with sectarian attacks on Nationalist homes in North and East Belfast. The Loyalists also attacked a pub frequented by Catholics which had been previously attacked by Loyalist gunmen killing three Catholics.

The DUP spent their time blaming the Parades Commission as usual. Unionist Representatives have seldom shown strong leadership. The First Minister Peter Robinson has been uncharacteristically quiet. The most militant voice leads – whether that is a Willie Fraser or Jim Allister or some loyalist paramilitary. The DUP are inclined to follow.

So, having said all that, where does it bring us? Does it make me feel hopeless or helpless? No. Do I think dialogue should cease? No, I don't. It means, after today, we seek out those who we need to talk to in the Unionist part of our community and we find a way forward with them.

We recognise that there are two narratives about our past. That is the reality. It does not mean that we will agree on the past. I do not expect Unionists to agree with or even accept a Republican or Nationalist view of the past. No more than Unionists can expect Republicans to agree with their account of our history. I may not like the part played by the Crown Forces during the conflict but I absolutely accept their right to commemorate their dead with dignity. Indeed Alex Maskey was the first Sinn Fein Mayor to reach out through laying a wreath for Remembrance Sunday some years ago. Unionists may not like the part played by Republican Freedom Fighters in the conflict but they should accept their right to be commemorated with dignity.

If both sections of our community can come to terms with the fact of there being two narratives, at least two views of our past. That, I believe will help our whole society to move forward. We have, in fact, agreed on many things already – the GFA, St Andrews and Hillsborough agreements being prime examples. There are also things we don't agree on. But for the future, for a shared future there may have to be more compromises on all sides. If we can allow for the different narratives it may open up the space to do that.

Without dialogue, whether in Castlederg or Derry or Rasharkin or Belfast we cannot progress. So as Republicans we must stand by face to face dialogue as a method of resolution.

But today, let me say this on the 40th Anniversary of the deaths of Volunteer Seamus Harvey and Volunteer Gerard McGlynn who gave their lives so that we could be free.

These 2 young men could have made different choices in life. They could've avoided the risks of imprisonment or death – But they were leaders, people who led from the front. They chose to stand up against the oppression in our country, the intimidation of their people: Because of their profound love of Ireland and of their community.

They were not alone in Tyrone to step forward in Ireland's time of need. Tyrone has given of its best over the centuries. It has suffered and sacrificed more than its fair share in the conflict. There are 60 names on the roll of honour-most of them young men cut down in their prime.

It is worth saying – and I hope Unionism is listening, that they were ordinary young men who loved their families and friends and were loved in return. They got great satisfaction from playing sport and reading history and going to dances or courting or playing with their children or going to college or university. They were ordinary young men in the extraordinary circumstances of the early 1970's who rose to the challenge of the time. They had a vision of Equality and Freedom and they knew the risks they were taking to achieve it but they could not stand idly by or leave it to others.

It is a harsh reality of Resistance that we lose some of our best activists during armed conflict and Seamus and Gerard along with their other comrades whom we remember here today, paid with their lives. Forever young, they are remembered, loved and cherished by their families, friends and comrades and always will be.

We also remember those who lived their lives in service to the people and the cause of freedom. Some of whom have died in this area in the last few years.

I don't know what our dead comrades might have said if they were here today on this platform, but what I do know is that they left a legacy behind them. Their courage and their sacrifice inspired others who took up their mantle and continued their struggle.

What I do know is that they played their part in our long struggle with dedication and commitment using the tools available to them in the 1970s. As our comrades in 1916, or in 1803, or in 1798 used the tools available to them in their eras and indeed in any of the many uprisings, large or small which has peppered our Island's history.

What I do know is that we, who continue that struggle for Irish Unity and Independence, must use the tools available to us in 2013. We should not and cannot act as if it is 1916 or 1969 or 1980 or 1996 or even 2006. We cannot live in our past but we must learn from our past to secure and improve our future. There are those on both sides, a minority, who yearn for past certainties, who want to return to the conflict years. They will use any issue in a forlorn attempt to undermine progress or destabilise the peace. They will fail because they have no vision for the future of Ireland and therefore no strategy other than violence itself. The vast majority of people on the Island reject them.

James Connolly who was executed by the British in 1916, speaking of Wolfe Tone, the father of modern republicanism said: "We who hold his principles believe that any movement which would successfully grapple with the problem of national freedom must draw its inspiration, not from the moulding records of the past, but from the glowing hopes of the living present, the vast possibilities of the mighty future".

Ní Raibh Seamas Ó Conghaile ina phriosúnach don stair. A chomradaithí agus a chairde, inniú agus as seo amach tá muid ag deanamh ar stair féin agus ar dtodhchaí féin.

James Connolly was no prisoner of History. Comrades and friends, today and into the future we are shaping our own history and destiny.

The united Ireland Sinn Féin seeks to build is inclusive, pluralist and where all the elements of the Irish nation are comfortable, secure and can find the fullest expression of their identity.

Sinn Féin is a party on the rise. In the North we are the undisputed voice of nationalism and are transforming a society moving out of conflict and into a new shared future. In the South we are providing the credible, radical republican opposition to the gombeenism, corruption and lack of vision of a political establishment which has failed the Irish people.

Republicanism on this island has never been so strong, so organized and so capable of achieving its objectives. This generation of republicans is laying the foundations for a New Republic — a 32-County Republic with social justice and equality at its core.

This generation has the greatest opportunity since Partition to finally achieve genuine national self-determination. We do not underestimate the challenges ahead. Indeed as Republicans we embrace challenge, we embrace activism and we embrace the responsibility that comes with activism.

Finally, and importantly we could not have got this far without the activism, dedication and self-sacrifice of the people we are here to honour today. Our best tribute to them, I would suggest is to rededicate ourselves to the achievement of the United Ireland for which they gave their lives.

[HiMucker]

We recognise that there are two narratives about our past. That is the reality. It does not mean that we will agree on the past. I do not expect Unionists to agree with or even accept a Republican or Nationalist view of the past. No more than Unionists can expect Republicans to agree with their account of our history. I may not like the part played by the Crown Forces during the conflict but I absolutely accept their right to commemorate their dead with dignity. Indeed Alex Maskey was the first Sinn Fein Mayor to reach out through laying a wreath for Remembrance Sunday some years ago. Unionists may not like the part played by Republican Freedom Fighters in the conflict but they should accept their right to be commemorated with dignity.

If both sections of our community can come to terms with the fact of there being two narratives, at least two views of our past. That, I believe will help our whole society to move forward. We have, in fact, agreed on many things already – the GFA, St Andrews and Hillsborough agreements being prime examples. There are also things we don't agree on. But for the future, for a shared future there may have to be more compromises on all sides. If we can allow for the different narratives it may open up the space to do that.

IMO that  is the most important part of GKs speech.  We have yet to hear unionist leadership say anything remotely similar.  And until they do, I cant see them moving forward.

[deiseach]

Hold on a f**king minute here! For YEARS the Brits / loyalists/ unionists walked all over the top of us, simply because they could . Now, they can't , and it's driving them f**king bonkers. For the best part of 30 years they could march wherever they wanted, ban what they wanted , and get couriered in to shoot whoever the f**k they felt like shooting.
To bring Omagh into this is bullshit. Sinn Fein had and continue to have ZERO affiliation with the real Ira , who committed that horrible attack. As Nally stand correctly pointed out, they weren't going to blow up the town, but sure most of you just regurgitate what you read and hear in the news.
Maguire, I was born and bred in the north, and now live in the USA . I consider myself 100% Irish, every bit as much as yourself! Perhaps if we hadn't been left hanging by the balls 90 years ago by our southern " cousins" we wouldn't have experienced any of these tragedies? What should the people of the north have done? Those who consider themselves as Irish as you. Should they have laid down and have the unionists walk all over them ? Trust me, there were a lot of people killed in obtaining the 26 counties many years ago, to bring up the likes of Kingsmill is horseshit. Why don't you bring up king rat? A police force supposedly protecting us, actually having us killed in our own houses and pubs? Being discriminated against on a daily basis?  Shoot to kill policy?
Tell me??

Why are you asking us what you should have done when we can look at history to see what the vast majority of the Nationalist population of the North did do over the years. They didn't join the IRA, that's for sure, and this Shinner revisionism which portrays the Resistance (love the way Gerry Kelly's speech has a capital R, you can be sure he says it in his own mind as well) as being representative of all of the Nationalist population needs to be countered at every opportunity. Because it is a lie.

[Applesisapples]

Some of the posts on here from our Southern fellow citizens display a complete lack of understanding of the north. I can only assume that they are mainly under 30. My father grew up in an orange state where he was denied employment because of his religion, he was denied running water and sanitation because his orange neighbours would not sign way leaves, he had to live with the Orange Order banging lambegs outside his church through the 40's, 50's and 60's. He had to be deferent to his orange neighbours or take the consequences. I was lucky enough to be born at a time of transition and although I grew up in and lost friends in the troubles, thanks to civil rights, the conflict itself and some astute nationalist leaders I have known better days. But opposed to violence as I and most catholics were and are it has to be acknowledged that this PUL which is being drag kicking and screaming towards equality would not have given 1 inch to the catholic community had it not been for the conflict forcing the British Government's hand. That is an unpalatable fact. And whilst I sit here behind a key board looking down my nose at grass roots republicans that fact gnaws at my view of the modern Northern Ireland. It is worth remembering that far from wanting equality and parity of esteem a great many PUL/DUP/TUV/OUP supporters would gladly go back to the past. I have no great affinity for Gerry Kelly but a lot of what he said makes sense. And again whilst I do not understand why anyone would want to parody loyalists by parading, we can't have two sets of rules. The comments around the dissidents in Belfast prove the point...We don't want them parading through our city. When will they realise that at c.49% of the population the PUL is now a minority in NI, it is no longer just their city and OWC his heading towards a catholic majority (though not necessarily a UI)...or maybe they do realise and that's the issue.

[glens abu]

Some of the posts on here from our Southern fellow citizens display a complete lack of understanding of the north. I can only assume that they are mainly under 30. My father grew up in an orange state where he was denied employment because of his religion, he was denied running water and sanitation because his orange neighbours would not sign way leaves, he had to live with the Orange Order banging lambegs outside his church through the 40's, 50's and 60's. He had to be deferent to his orange neighbours or take the consequences. I was lucky enough to be born at a time of transition and although I grew up in and lost friends in the troubles, thanks to civil rights, the conflict itself and some astute nationalist leaders I have known better days. But opposed to violence as I and most catholics were and are it has to be acknowledged that this PUL which is being drag kicking and screaming towards equality would not have given 1 inch to the catholic community had it not been for the conflict forcing the British Government's hand. That is an unpalatable fact. And whilst I sit here behind a key board looking down my nose at grass roots republicans that fact gnaws at my view of the modern Northern Ireland. It is worth remembering that far from wanting equality and parity of esteem a great many PUL/DUP/TUV/OUP supporters would gladly go back to the past. I have no great affinity for Gerry Kelly but a lot of what he said makes sense. And again whilst I do not understand why anyone would want to parody loyalists by parading, we can't have two sets of rules. The comments around the dissidents in Belfast prove the point...We don't want them parading through our city. When will they realise that at c.49% of the population the PUL is now a minority in NI, it is no longer just their city and OWC his heading towards a catholic majority (though not necessarily a UI)...or maybe they do realise and that's the issue.

Apples sometimes you talk a lot of sense.

[deiseach]

Some of the posts on here from our Southern fellow citizens display a complete lack of understanding of the north. I can only assume that they are mainly under 30. My father grew up in an orange state where he was denied employment because of his religion, he was denied running water and sanitation because his orange neighbours would not sign way leaves, he had to live with the Orange Order banging lambegs outside his church through the 40's, 50's and 60's. He had to be deferent to his orange neighbours or take the consequences. I was lucky enough to be born at a time of transition and although I grew up in and lost friends in the troubles, thanks to civil rights, the conflict itself and some astute nationalist leaders I have known better days. But opposed to violence as I and most catholics were and are it has to be acknowledged that this PUL which is being drag kicking and screaming towards equality would not have given 1 inch to the catholic community had it not been for the conflict forcing the British Government's hand. That is an unpalatable fact. And whilst I sit here behind a key board looking down my nose at grass roots republicans that fact gnaws at my view of the modern Northern Ireland. It is worth remembering that far from wanting equality and parity of esteem a great many PUL/DUP/TUV/OUP supporters would gladly go back to the past. I have no great affinity for Gerry Kelly but a lot of what he said makes sense. And again whilst I do not understand why anyone would want to parody loyalists by parading, we can't have two sets of rules. The comments around the dissidents in Belfast prove the point...We don't want them parading through our city. When will they realise that at c.49% of the population the PUL is now a minority in NI, it is no longer just their city and OWC his heading towards a catholic majority (though not necessarily a UI)...or maybe they do realise and that's the issue.

That's an interesting post and you say many sensible things, but can you explain to me how you think the armed struggle brought the British government to the point where they were willing to force concessions out of Unionism? I can't identify a single point in the conflict when you can say the British got tired of the war. If anything, their strategy was always to tolerate a certain level of death, particularly if it was kept off 'the mainland', rather than make any concessions to 'the men of violence'. Sure, there were lines of communication at various points, but the gap between what they were willing to offer and what the Provos were willing to accept was always too wide (and it was usually the Provos being the all-or-nothing intransigent ones). It got to a point in British politics where the governing class stopped viewing it as a security problem, but that was a product of time as the old guard who grew up with the rhetoric of how Britain was inherently superior because they defeated Hitler faded from the scene rather than war fatigue.

[Nally Stand]

Some of the posts on here from our Southern fellow citizens display a complete lack of understanding of the north. I can only assume that they are mainly under 30. My father grew up in an orange state where he was denied employment because of his religion, he was denied running water and sanitation because his orange neighbours would not sign way leaves, he had to live with the Orange Order banging lambegs outside his church through the 40's, 50's and 60's. He had to be deferent to his orange neighbours or take the consequences. I was lucky enough to be born at a time of transition and although I grew up in and lost friends in the troubles, thanks to civil rights, the conflict itself and some astute nationalist leaders I have known better days. But opposed to violence as I and most catholics were and are it has to be acknowledged that this PUL which is being drag kicking and screaming towards equality would not have given 1 inch to the catholic community had it not been for the conflict forcing the British Government's hand. That is an unpalatable fact. And whilst I sit here behind a key board looking down my nose at grass roots republicans that fact gnaws at my view of the modern Northern Ireland. It is worth remembering that far from wanting equality and parity of esteem a great many PUL/DUP/TUV/OUP supporters would gladly go back to the past. I have no great affinity for Gerry Kelly but a lot of what he said makes sense. And again whilst I do not understand why anyone would want to parody loyalists by parading, we can't have two sets of rules. The comments around the dissidents in Belfast prove the point...We don't want them parading through our city. When will they realise that at c.49% of the population the PUL is now a minority in NI, it is no longer just their city and OWC his heading towards a catholic majority (though not necessarily a UI)...or maybe they do realise and that's the issue.

That's an interesting post and you say many sensible things, but can you explain to me how you think the armed struggle brought the British government to the point where they were willing to force concessions out of Unionism? I can't identify a single point in the conflict when you can say the British got tired of the war. If anything, their strategy was always to tolerate a certain level of death, particularly if it was kept off 'the mainland', rather than make any concessions to 'the men of violence'. Sure, there were lines of communication at various points, but the gap between what they were willing to offer and what the Provos were willing to accept was always too wide (and it was usually the Provos being the all-or-nothing intransigent ones). It got to a point in British politics where the governing class stopped viewing it as a security problem, but that was a product of time as the old guard who grew up with the rhetoric of how Britain was inherently superior because they defeated Hitler faded from the scene rather than war fatigue.

Canary Wharf

[HiMucker]

Some of the posts on here from our Southern fellow citizens display a complete lack of understanding of the north. I can only assume that they are mainly under 30. My father grew up in an orange state where he was denied employment because of his religion, he was denied running water and sanitation because his orange neighbours would not sign way leaves, he had to live with the Orange Order banging lambegs outside his church through the 40's, 50's and 60's. He had to be deferent to his orange neighbours or take the consequences. I was lucky enough to be born at a time of transition and although I grew up in and lost friends in the troubles, thanks to civil rights, the conflict itself and some astute nationalist leaders I have known better days. But opposed to violence as I and most catholics were and are it has to be acknowledged that this PUL which is being drag kicking and screaming towards equality would not have given 1 inch to the catholic community had it not been for the conflict forcing the British Government's hand. That is an unpalatable fact. And whilst I sit here behind a key board looking down my nose at grass roots republicans that fact gnaws at my view of the modern Northern Ireland. It is worth remembering that far from wanting equality and parity of esteem a great many PUL/DUP/TUV/OUP supporters would gladly go back to the past. I have no great affinity for Gerry Kelly but a lot of what he said makes sense. And again whilst I do not understand why anyone would want to parody loyalists by parading, we can't have two sets of rules. The comments around the dissidents in Belfast prove the point...We don't want them parading through our city. When will they realise that at c.49% of the population the PUL is now a minority in NI, it is no longer just their city and OWC his heading towards a catholic majority (though not necessarily a UI)...or maybe they do realise and that's the issue.

Nail on head.  Excellent post

[Myles Na G.]

Some of the posts on here from our Southern fellow citizens display a complete lack of understanding of the north. I can only assume that they are mainly under 30. My father grew up in an orange state where he was denied employment because of his religion, he was denied running water and sanitation because his orange neighbours would not sign way leaves, he had to live with the Orange Order banging lambegs outside his church through the 40's, 50's and 60's. He had to be deferent to his orange neighbours or take the consequences. I was lucky enough to be born at a time of transition and although I grew up in and lost friends in the troubles, thanks to civil rights, the conflict itself and some astute nationalist leaders I have known better days. But opposed to violence as I and most catholics were and are it has to be acknowledged that this PUL which is being drag kicking and screaming towards equality would not have given 1 inch to the catholic community had it not been for the conflict forcing the British Government's hand. That is an unpalatable fact. And whilst I sit here behind a key board looking down my nose at grass roots republicans that fact gnaws at my view of the modern Northern Ireland. It is worth remembering that far from wanting equality and parity of esteem a great many PUL/DUP/TUV/OUP supporters would gladly go back to the past. I have no great affinity for Gerry Kelly but a lot of what he said makes sense. And again whilst I do not understand why anyone would want to parody loyalists by parading, we can't have two sets of rules. The comments around the dissidents in Belfast prove the point...We don't want them parading through our city. When will they realise that at c.49% of the population the PUL is now a minority in NI, it is no longer just their city and OWC his heading towards a catholic majority (though not necessarily a UI)...or maybe they do realise and that's the issue.

The IRA was never, ever part of the solution to the problems you outline in that post. You do not tackle injustice by inflicting injustice on others, and the IRA did precisely that.