Where now for Tyrone?

[Rossfan]

Exactly Seafóidín.
Leinster became a procession years ago, now with the demise of Mayowestros the AI has joined it.
Only the Ulster and Connacht Championships are competitions any more.

[tippabu]

Didn't read through the thread but my take after Sunday it's hard to see where Tyrone could improve enough to beat Dublin. Physically their forwards aren't big enough, Dublin are technically brilliant in the tackle but Tyrone never seemed like they'd be able to break more than one tackle or they got to a certain point and no further. Tyrones bench had a shocking impact on the game, maybe just bad games but they were very poor. Biggest thing was efficiency though which everyone could learn from Dublin, Dublin had some bad wides but they had bad wides from good shooting opportunities whereas Tyrone had some shocking wides but they were from awful shooting positions. One thing I will say, Tyrone have alot of very good young players who should improve going forward

[seafoid]

Exactly Seafóidín.
Leinster became a procession years ago, now with the demise of Mayowestros the AI has joined it.
Only the Ulster and Connacht Championships are competitions any more.

I don't think this is acceptable. The Dubs could win 7 in a row.
Attendances have been falling since 2001
The game is in a state of crisis.
Only the GAA is in a position to address it coherently.
The first step is to acknowledge there is a crisis

[blewuporstuffed]

Didn't read through the thread but my take after Sunday it's hard to see where Tyrone could improve enough to beat Dublin. Physically their forwards aren't big enough, Dublin are technically brilliant in the tackle but Tyrone never seemed like they'd be able to break more than one tackle or they got to a certain point and no further. Tyrones bench had a shocking impact on the game, maybe just bad games but they were very poor. Biggest thing was efficiency though which everyone could learn from Dublin, Dublin had some bad wides but they had bad wides from good shooting opportunities whereas Tyrone had some shocking wides but they were from awful shooting positions. One thing I will say, Tyrone have alot of very good young players who should improve going forward

I think you have answered your own question there. For me this is the biggest area Tyrone need to improve to close the gap on Dublin. Dublin arent kicking half a dozen wonder scores to beat you every game, they are just  brilliant at working really good scoring opportunities and ruthless in taking those.

[tippabu]

Exactly Seafóidín.
Leinster became a procession years ago, now with the demise of Mayowestros the AI has joined it.
Only the Ulster and Connacht Championships are competitions any more.

Will agree to a certain extent 're connacht, it's a 2 match championship. Ulster is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of competitiveness as proved this year. Obviously Leinster and munster there is no competition

[Orchard park]

Mickey's time has gone!

Time for new faces and new ideas.

He has hogged this gig for too long.

Some won't realise how good Harte was with Tyrone until he's gone.

No doubt, but he's had no big weight win in nearly 10 years now. He has consistently kept Tyrone good without making them great.

I'm no fan of Harte  on his personal views and arguable abuse of position but I think he  has kept Tyrone  performing at a level well above the quality of player available to him. Loads of managers do exceptional jobs without winning all Ireland. Does anyone really think Another mgr could have won an all Ireland in the last 10 yrs with the panel....

Tyrone should be grateful to Harte they haven't ended up like Derry, down or Armagh.....

[ballinaman]

Why would he do that after taking his team to within a whisker of his 4th ai? ...Which will certainly be picked up next year?

It's was like a cat playing with a dying mouse after the 17th minute

[seafoid]

I read the Harte quotes in the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/its-absolutely-childish-mickey-harte-blasts-pundits-for-living-in-the-past-and-looking-for-sound-bites-37280142.html
"I just think it's a tired sound bite, it really is. This thing called marquee forwards, it's something of the past. It's not about being a marquee forward, it's about the number of quality finishers wherever they come from on the field," Harte said.
"The marquee has maybe strength, but it's also going to be a great weakness. If you have a marquee forward and he's double-teamed and stuffed out of the game, what do the rest of the people do?
"Do they say 'oh, our marquee forwards are not getting seven or eight points' when we are beaten? I think you need a spread of scorers in the modern game and people capable of taking them.
"And the fact a forward is only described as marquee because he gets six, seven or eight points in a match, to me is absolutely childish. We have plenty of marquee forwards, quality players who can do lots of things with the ball."

And everyone is talking about the wides and the shot selection.
He doesn't have the forwards at the minute

BTW this is what a marquee forward looks like  :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3G1bwD0ao0

[Blowitupref]

I read the Harte quotes in the Indo

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/its-absolutely-childish-mickey-harte-blasts-pundits-for-living-in-the-past-and-looking-for-sound-bites-37280142.html
"I just think it's a tired sound bite, it really is. This thing called marquee forwards, it's something of the past. It's not about being a marquee forward, it's about the number of quality finishers wherever they come from on the field," Harte said.
"The marquee has maybe strength, but it's also going to be a great weakness. If you have a marquee forward and he's double-teamed and stuffed out of the game, what do the rest of the people do?
"Do they say 'oh, our marquee forwards are not getting seven or eight points' when we are beaten? I think you need a spread of scorers in the modern game and people capable of taking them.
"And the fact a forward is only described as marquee because he gets six, seven or eight points in a match, to me is absolutely childish. We have plenty of marquee forwards, quality players who can do lots of things with the ball."

And everyone is talking about the wides and the shot selection.
He doesn't have the forwards at the minute

BTW this is what a marquee forward looks like  :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3G1bwD0ao0

Not a lot wrong with what he said there.

The day of Dublin leaving their defence that exposed is long gone.

[tyrone08]

For the last 3-4 years Tyrone have had the same problem, poor shooting and decision making. I for the life of me cant figure out why this isnt being addressed at management level, if it is then is simply hasn't worked. Stephen O'Neill was one of the best forwards about, is it that he is not allowed to teach them his way?

In addition they need to sort out Morgans mental strength, he is a solid keeper but when he makes 1 mistake he is guaranteed to make a few more right after it. He just needs to shake it off and reset after the 1st mistake.

For some reason Mickey seems to favour the more athletic type of player rather than someone with natural skill. He has to find a few more natural forwards in order to win the big games. Having a fit team of 15 is grand and will win you most games but there is no point in having fit players that constantly kick wides or drop the ball short.

Hopefully Lee Brennan goes next year injury free as he will get better with more game time.

But I have an awful feeling we will be talking about shooting and decision making next year again as I think Micky is too stubborn to change.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

Mickey's time has gone!

Time for new faces and new ideas.

He has hogged this gig for too long.

Some won't realise how good Harte was with Tyrone until he's gone.

No doubt, but he's had no big weight win in nearly 10 years now. He has consistently kept Tyrone good without making them great.

I'm no fan of Harte  on his personal views and arguable abuse of position but I think he  has kept Tyrone  performing at a level well above the quality of player available to him. Loads of managers do exceptional jobs without winning all Ireland. Does anyone really think Another mgr could have won an all Ireland in the last 10 yrs with the panel....

Tyrone should be grateful to Harte they haven't ended up like Derry, down or Armagh.....

None of those counties have had the same underage talent or success as Tyrone. However good Mickey is, he has been fortunate too in that he has had a pretty steady stream of good young footballers onto his panel.

Mickey is clearly fantastic at getting players to buy into what he is doing. They are physically well prepared and pull together. He made a fundamental error though in trying to implement something based on Donegal of the McGuinness era when this new team came through. There has never been the slightest bit of evidence that this approach has helped Tyrone beat anybody they couldn't beat anybody with a more attacking style, and it certainly hasn't helped them against sides who are better than them, ie the Dubs. If the system did indeed suit them, players wouldn't constantly make the wrong decisions when in possession. Having spent a few years trying to implement it, it can also only be confusing for players to have to try and change drastically as they did before this final. That will have an impact on decision making, as will hearing your manager talking about players scoring dishonest goals by leaving your man and taking a chance and going for something off the cuff.

Where now for Tyrone? Settle on a system and stick with it. Leave the likes of Bradley and Brennan up and have support in place for them. Put more faith in defenders to defend. The danger is that reaching the final this year will be seen as proof that the approach of the last few years is working. In reality it was an extremely handy run to the final. A re-think is still required. Dublin is always going to be massive ask for this Tyrone side, but they are capable of better than being beaten before half-time.

[Under Lights]

For the last 3-4 years Tyrone have had the same problem, poor shooting and decision making. I for the life of me cant figure out why this isnt being addressed at management level, if it is then is simply hasn't worked. Stephen O'Neill was one of the best forwards about, is it that he is not allowed to teach them his way?

In addition they need to sort out Morgans mental strength, he is a solid keeper but when he makes 1 mistake he is guaranteed to make a few more right after it. He just needs to shake it off and reset after the 1st mistake.

For some reason Mickey seems to favour the more athletic type of player rather than someone with natural skill. He has to find a few more natural forwards in order to win the big games. Having a fit team of 15 is grand and will win you most games but there is no point in having fit players that constantly kick wides or drop the ball short.

Hopefully Lee Brennan goes next year injury free as he will get better with more game time.

But I have an awful feeling we will be talking about shooting and decision making next year again as I think Micky is too stubborn to change.

Stephen O'Neill shot a lot of times from outside the "scoring zone" and landed them. Tyrone were shooting from these areas on Sunday and the players- McShane, McGeary, Hampsey etc weren't of the calibre of O'Neill from landing this precentage shots.

[greatpoint]

Why would he do that after taking his team to within a whisker of his 4th ai? ...Which will certainly be picked up next year?

There must be some big cats about Tyrone.

[sekibanki]

For the last 3-4 years Tyrone have had the same problem, poor shooting and decision making. I for the life of me cant figure out why this isnt being addressed at management level, if it is then is simply hasn't worked. Stephen O'Neill was one of the best forwards about, is it that he is not allowed to teach them his way?

In addition they need to sort out Morgans mental strength, he is a solid keeper but when he makes 1 mistake he is guaranteed to make a few more right after it. He just needs to shake it off and reset after the 1st mistake.

For some reason Mickey seems to favour the more athletic type of player rather than someone with natural skill. He has to find a few more natural forwards in order to win the big games. Having a fit team of 15 is grand and will win you most games but there is no point in having fit players that constantly kick wides or drop the ball short.

Hopefully Lee Brennan goes next year injury free as he will get better with more game time.

But I have an awful feeling we will be talking about shooting and decision making next year again as I think Micky is too stubborn to change.

Stephen O'Neill shot a lot of times from outside the "scoring zone" and landed them. Tyrone were shooting from these areas on Sunday and the players- McShane, McGeary, Hampsey etc weren't of the calibre of O'Neill from landing this precentage shots.

I've a feeling Stevie might have been coaching them to back themselves in taking on points from long distances and acute angles, guided by the experience that he usually landed those shots.

The thing is, while we don't really have forwards like Stevie and Dooher who can reliably land those ridiculous points, the Dubs never do this either. So I feel the Achilles heel of Tyrone not having "marquee forwards" is overwrought. McCaffrey is lightning quick and Kilkenny marshalls play from out on the 45, but the Dubs aren't relying on marquee forwards either. We do have forwards who are quick and fit and work hard and can kick good scores, and that's more than enough of you can reliably work your way forward. If Tyrone had the patience and discipline to work into the scoring area rather than trying to hit attacks at blistering pace (either when they set up to attack, or on the counter, where they tear teams apart on pace but don't do the "pass around the screen" thing like Dublin or Monaghan if it stalls), then they could find themselves right back in contention.

For me it was a heartening performance from Tyrone, as it at least showed we have the talent and personnel to take it to the Dubs if they can get the strategy and discipline polished and keep their head up and calm.

[Wildweasel74]

Marquee forward; wait see the lad coming of Dublins minor team last year, now he the calibre of forward Dublin can produce@l!