Budget airline Ryanair is to offer flights to the US for eight pounds, by buying planes from struggling rivals.
The plan will be revealed when chief executive Michael O'Leary announces the firm's quarterly results on Monday.
"Economy class will be very cheap, around 10 euros, but our business class will be very expensive," he said in a newspaper interview.
Ryanair's second quarter profits are expected to fall, due to higher fuel prices and its decision to cut fares.
Mr O'Leary is expected to announce plans to buy more than 50 extra aircraft, as part of plans to beat the recession by undercutting more expensive rivals.
"We'll just have to keep flying more aircraft, opening up more routes and offering people more cheap flights," Mr O'Leary said.
Profits down
The flights - which could begin by the end of next year - would be available for those booking early. Passengers would pay airport taxes on top of the fares.
The transatlantic flights are likely to go from Stansted and Dublin airports to New York, Florida, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Boston.
Meanwhile, it is expected that Ryanair's quarterly profits will drop significantly.
Royal Bank of Scotland is forecasting net earnings of 145m euros (£115m; $184m) for Ryanair for the second quarter, down from 260m euros last year.
While the oil price has come down lately, analysts say Ryanair is still suffering because it insured against changing fuel costs at too high a price.
Mr O'Leary has said he expected the airline to make a profit for the full year as long as oil stays below $70 a barrel.
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7705169.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7705169.stm)
(http://www.mindspill.org/1102/enclosure/ryanair_idea.jpg)
I would prefer to swim if its alright with you. Back and over to france is far enough on the schoolbus with wings thank you.
I can't understand the amount of negativity towards Ryanair. Only for them we would still be getting ripped off by Aer Lingus and the like. Getting from A to B for the cheapest price works for me.
I agree....too many companies were charging way too much to flight short haul routes. Going to Scotland was a couple of hundred...hell, it cost nearly 300 punts to go to belgium back in the mid nineties....not exactly Hawaii for that price.
If ryanair go to the usa i'd go with them as long as the routes were convenient and times okay. Its not as if you get much extra with any other airline.
Where you want to go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City
Where Ryaniar will take you too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York,_Texas
Ok £8 for thr flight but it will be £20 per case, £5 for checking in at the check in desk etc etc etc. Don't get me wrong I love Ryanair....for flying from Cork to Dublin...wouldn't know about being treated like cattle for an 8 hour flight though!
Quote from: downgirl on November 03, 2008, 08:56:15 AM
Ok £8 for thr flight but it will be £20 per case, £5 for checking in at the check in desk etc etc etc. Don't get me wrong I love Ryanair....for flying from Cork to Dublin...wouldn't know about being treated like cattle for an 8 hour flight though!
And £5 per flight for paying by Credit or Debit Card, the biggest scam of all
2/3 of the price into an ulster club game
O'Leary has threatened to slash 75% of flights out of Shannon if govt goes ahead with the 10euro departure tax.
I think this is a huge issue for the midwest and if he is serious then Lenihan will have to make another U-turn.
It would virtually close Shannon airport.
O'Leary has asked for a 10% of cost of flight tax instead which means his passengers get away lightly and the big hitters on 1st class junkets pay full whack.
I apprechiate what Ryanair have done and have got me around Europe very cheaply, but £8 to the USA, Scarily cheap. I know it will come to more than that when you include the extras but flying to the USA for less than £100 is unbelievable. How its profitable I dont know but they'll fill those seats easily. Wonder how much the business class costs,
would anyone have any idea of the price of taxes for us airports?
We all have a choice. You know what you get with Ryanair. Cheapest price but absolutley no extras. Or you can go with some one else, add a zero onto the cost and get a cup of tea, a biscuit and a cheesy smile. As for the comment on their planes being a "school bus with wings". Ryanair have the newest fleet of planes of any airline in the world so that doesn't really stand up.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 02, 2008, 10:54:55 PM
Budget airline Ryanair is to offer flights to the US for eight pounds, by buying planes from struggling rivals.
The plan will be revealed when chief executive Michael O'Leary announces the firm's quarterly results on Monday.
"Economy class will be very cheap, around 10 euros, but our business class will be very expensive," he said in a newspaper interview.
Ryanair's second quarter profits are expected to fall, due to higher fuel prices and its decision to cut fares.
Mr O'Leary is expected to announce plans to buy more than 50 extra aircraft, as part of plans to beat the recession by undercutting more expensive rivals.
"We'll just have to keep flying more aircraft, opening up more routes and offering people more cheap flights," Mr O'Leary said.
Profits down
The flights - which could begin by the end of next year - would be available for those booking early. Passengers would pay airport taxes on top of the fares.
The transatlantic flights are likely to go from Stansted and Dublin airports to New York, Florida, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Boston.
Meanwhile, it is expected that Ryanair's quarterly profits will drop significantly.
Royal Bank of Scotland is forecasting net earnings of 145m euros (£115m; $184m) for Ryanair for the second quarter, down from 260m euros last year.
While the oil price has come down lately, analysts say Ryanair is still suffering because it insured against changing fuel costs at too high a price.
Mr O'Leary has said he expected the airline to make a profit for the full year as long as oil stays below $70 a barrel.
Sourced BBCi: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7705169.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7705169.stm)
(http://www.mindspill.org/1102/enclosure/ryanair_idea.jpg)
The cartoon is pure class ! :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: mylestheslasher on November 03, 2008, 01:32:19 PM
We all have a choice. You know what you get with Ryanair. Cheapest price but absolutley no extras. Or you can go with some one else, add a zero onto the cost and get a cup of tea, a biscuit and a cheesy smile. As for the comment on their planes being a "school bus with wings". Ryanair have the newest fleet of planes of any airline in the world so that doesn't really stand up.
This sort of O'Learyspeak nonsense becomes accepted by the masses as fact, without anyone ever checking the facts. He frequenty states Ryan is always the cheapest when they aren't and he stated that they were the greenest which was proven to be nonsense.
The fact is he has some brand new aircraft and some up to 5 years old. The average would be around 3 years old. That average probably wouldn't even be the lowest for these islands let alone the world.
The above story should read: Ryanair in new stunt to hide bad results. It should go in to mention that his short haul business is in trouble and that some observers think this is another 'shit or bust' gamble with his company, just as he did after 911 when he ordered hundreds of aircraft. That one came in for him for the last 7 years but is dragging him down now as his aircraft trading business collapsed this year. He is stuck with all those aircraft and can't sell them.
QuoteI can't understand the amount of negativity towards Ryanair.
Seanie I suggest you talk to some of his ex-employees, preferably in the strictest confidence so they won't be sued.
have heard that the employees are not treated fantastically, but like a sizable proportion of private sector /maufacturing type/construction type workers out there - this is more normal than you obv think.
imo and from exp of flying a fair few times, ryanair are on a par with most of them. OK the inflight food isnt great and has to be bought, but its the same as aer lingus and imo they charge way more for flights usually.
only the top notch carriers that provide great entertainment and food etc are notable - BA, virgin, emirates etc...
the rest are less so.
Air france, iberia and esp klm are nothing great.
in fact I'd rate klm below aerlingus and ryanair !
Quotehave heard that the employees are not treated fantastically, but like a sizable proportion of private sector /maufacturing type/construction type workers out there - this is more normal than you obv think.
We are not talking about about the same thing.
I am ashamed that this man is Irish given what he has done and continues to do.
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2008, 02:32:59 PM
Quotehave heard that the employees are not treated fantastically, but like a sizable proportion of private sector /maufacturing type/construction type workers out there - this is more normal than you obv think.
We are not talking about about the same thing.
I am ashamed that this man is Irish given what he has done and continues to do.
fair enough
I dont know the in depth workings of ryanair employees - but have known a couple...they hated working for ryanair, but surely a lot of people hate working for their employers...
A friend of mine works for easyJet and he hates it. I know a lassie that works for Ryanair and she seems to like it.
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:33:50 PM
A friend of mine works for easyJet and he hates it. I know a lassie that works for Ryanair and she seems to like it.
A male working in an airline, what kind of "friend" is he exactly Ziggy?? ;)
Oh I could tell you a story that would make you proud Sideline, but not the story I think you're hoping for :p
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:41:09 PM
Oh I could tell you a story that would make you proud Sideline, but not the story I think you're hoping for :p
OK zig, tell us the story of a friend of a friend ;)
Don't want to.
Sideline, check your inbox and keep it to yourself ;)
Quote from: hardstation on November 03, 2008, 04:45:18 PM
What did Mike Finton do?
Holy f**k! Is there no-one you don't know???
Good God HS...... how do you remember all this?
:D very good Ziggy, keep up the good work.
Full Back, check your PM Inbox.....
Forward it on sideline ;)
Was Mike being a little rascal?
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:44:48 PM
Don't want to.
Sideline, check your inbox and keep it to yourself ;)
Tell me Ziggy!!!
Honestly illdecide, it's nothing what you're hoping for. Not a mile-high story.
Quote from: SidelineKick on November 03, 2008, 04:48:39 PM
:D very good Ziggy, keep up the good work.
Full Back, check your PM Inbox.....
Waiting sideline..........
Quote from: hardstation on November 03, 2008, 04:47:12 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on September 19, 2007, 10:54:20 PM
Aye, tell her Ziggy says hi!
Here, if you're flying easyJet, ask for Mike Finton. If he's working, the drinks are free ;)
Just a good memory, on useless things.
naw.....thats just way too easy !
:D
Quote from: full back on November 03, 2008, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on November 03, 2008, 04:48:39 PM
:D very good Ziggy, keep up the good work.
Full Back, check your PM Inbox.....
Waiting sideline..........
:D :D Now now FB i gave Ziggy my word! Good to get your hopes up though.
Quote from: SidelineKick on November 03, 2008, 04:54:03 PM
Quote from: full back on November 03, 2008, 04:50:10 PM
Quote from: SidelineKick on November 03, 2008, 04:48:39 PM
:D very good Ziggy, keep up the good work.
Full Back, check your PM Inbox.....
Waiting sideline..........
:D :D Now now FB i gave Ziggy my word! Good to get your hopes up though.
b4stard :D :D
When is the news conference ?
Where do they intend flying to? Will it just be east coast?
QuoteWhen is the news conference ?
Here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIY24BErBE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfIY24BErBE)
Niagara Falls?? ??? ??? ???
Never even knew there was an airport down there
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=81745-qqqx=1.asp
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2008, 02:32:59 PM
Quotehave heard that the employees are not treated fantastically, but like a sizable proportion of private sector /maufacturing type/construction type workers out there - this is more normal than you obv think.
We are not talking about about the same thing.
I am ashamed that this man is Irish given what he has done and continues to do.
Sorry Muppet - never got back to this until now. I'd be interested in why you feel like that (PM me if you like). Would you feel the same about the likes of McManus/Desmond etc who made huge profits driving our currency (and country) through the floor when we were practically bankrupt?
Quote from: magpie seanie on January 12, 2009, 04:12:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2008, 02:32:59 PM
Quotehave heard that the employees are not treated fantastically, but like a sizable proportion of private sector /maufacturing type/construction type workers out there - this is more normal than you obv think.
We are not talking about about the same thing.
I am ashamed that this man is Irish given what he has done and continues to do.
Sorry Muppet - never got back to this until now. I'd be interested in why you feel like that (PM me if you like). Would you feel the same about the likes of McManus/Desmond etc who made huge profits driving our currency (and country) through the floor when we were practically bankrupt?
I dont see them as the same. I would have issues with the activities you mention and the fact that they are tax exiles but they are not in the same league os O'Leary when it comes to being an employer. He s a national emabrassment but everyone, especially the media, looks the other way while some even laud him.
I know lots of former and a few current employees of his and you would be astonished at some of the stories.
One Irish judge described his activities as 'most onerous and bordering on oppression' and that was in a case taken by Ryanair.
Yeah - got a bit off point there. Maybe I'm being naive here but have we not got employment laws to take care of problems of bad employers? I've no doubt Ryanair would be tough to work for but surely if things were systematically "opressive" they'd be gone out of business long ago. He must be doing something right. I can accept though that the cheerleading media portray him as some sort of Robin Hood which clearly he isn't.
Quote from: Newbridge Exile on November 03, 2008, 08:59:36 AM
Quote from: downgirl on November 03, 2008, 08:56:15 AM
Ok £8 for thr flight but it will be £20 per case, £5 for checking in at the check in desk etc etc etc. Don't get me wrong I love Ryanair....for flying from Cork to Dublin...wouldn't know about being treated like cattle for an 8 hour flight though!
And £5 per flight for paying by Credit or Debit Card, the biggest scam of all
£10 on some flights.
A Ryanair pilot who spoke out about safety concerns on a television documentary earlier this week has been sacked.
Captain John Goss, who appeared in the Channel 4 Dispatches programme which was broadcast on Monday night, was dismissed today for "gross misconduct".
Capt Goss had also recently been given a warning by Ryanair after he gave a newspaper interview about safety issues at the airline.
In 2005, he took a High Court case against the airline after it tried to invoke disciplinary proceedings against him.
At the time, he claimed he was being victimised for his trade union activities.
The airline denied the claim and the case was settled.
He continued to work for the airline and was due to retire later this year.
In a memo circulated today, Ryanair outlined the reasons for dismissing Capt Goss and urged pilots not to "confuse industrial relations issues with safety".
In a statement, a Ryanair spokesman said: "Ryanair's safety has been independently confirmed as being 'on a par with the safest airlines in Europe'.
"It is delivered on a daily basis by over 9,000 outstanding aviation professionals whose commitment to safety is absolute.
"We will not allow a Ryanair employee to defame our safety on national television just 3 weeks after he confirmed in writing to Ryanair that he had no concerns with safety and no reason to make any confidential safety report to either the IAA or Ryanair."
What did he expect?!
Quote from: SidelineKick on November 03, 2008, 04:38:50 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on November 03, 2008, 04:33:50 PM
A friend of mine works for easyJet and he hates it. I know a lassie that works for Ryanair and she seems to like it.
A male working in an airline, what kind of "friend" is he exactly Ziggy?? ;)
A pilot? Engineer? Tarmac staff?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 15, 2013, 01:23:08 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 15, 2013, 12:06:38 AM
What did he expect?!
Whistleblower protection?
He got blew out instead. For good.
And got his wings clipped as well.
Another agenda at work here. I am struggling with idea that Ryanair's longest serving pilot had genuine safety concerns. Why would he fly the planes if he thought them unsafe ? :-\
This is from April 2013 and seems to be consistent enough with Ryanair'c claim that it was about union recognition.
https://www.eurocockpit.be/stories/20130416/ryanair-pilot-rewarded-for-outstanding-contribution
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 09:32:56 AM
Another agenda at work here. I am struggling with idea that Ryanair's longest serving pilot had genuine safety concerns. Why would he fly the planes if he thought them unsafe ? :-\
This is from April 2013 and seems to be consistent enough with Ryanair'c claim that it was about union recognition.
https://www.eurocockpit.be/stories/20130416/ryanair-pilot-rewarded-for-outstanding-contribution
He publicly raised concerns regarding safety.
He got fired for doing so.
They proved his point for him.
Ryanair never got going transatlantic. Most of their PR is bollocks.
Or tits.
If anyone wants an interesting read, this is an incident that occurred when a Ryanair aircraft taxiing at Barcelona collided with a stationary American Airlines aircraft which was waiting to take off.
There was significant damage to both aircraft. Both aircraft took off and, in the case of the AA aircraft, they didn't know about the collision.
Passengers on board the Ryanair witnessed the collision, they informed the Cabin Crew, who informed the Captain, who did nothing. The Captain noticed damage on the ground at the destination, Ibiza. Ryanair then contacted American Airlines. Ryanair continued to fly their aircraft with the damage, American Airlines withdrew their aircraft from service to repair the damage.
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DADD9E31-B11F-449B-913E-92BC0487C4EC/112681/2011_011_IN_ENG.pdf (http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DADD9E31-B11F-449B-913E-92BC0487C4EC/112681/2011_011_IN_ENG.pdf)
http://avherald.com/h?article=45363621 (http://avherald.com/h?article=45363621)
The report made 2 recommendations, one regarding painted markings on the ground at Barcelona and the other effectively blaming the Ryanair Cabin Crew for 'ineffectual communications'.
In my opinion, the latter is a massive cop out and ignores the fact that the Captain was made aware that at least one passenger believed there was a collision involving the aircraft, before take off. The Captain, for whatever reason, did not investigate this information and thus allowed two damaged aircraft to get airborne. Any sane person would have delayed takeoff to make sure the aircraft was not damaged. There was no mention of the investigation looking into Time Pressures or Safety Reporting cultures.
Today the Department of Transport and the IAA are out defending Ryanair after the Channel 4 programme: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aviation-watchdog-accuses-channel-4-of-misguided-attack-1.1492773 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aviation-watchdog-accuses-channel-4-of-misguided-attack-1.1492773)
Irish Regulation in general has a pretty poor reputation after the Financial Debacle. The Fundamentals are sound, the banks are fully funded, nothing to see here in Aviation either lads.
A pilot flying Ryanair planes for 25+ years while having serious safety concerns makes no sense to me.
His complaint has all the appearance of a parting shot before retirement and backed by other company's aviation unions as per the earlier link i.e.
Quote We hope this award will reinforce Ryanair pilots' determination to strive for fair employment conditions and continue to be united in their effort.
.
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
A pilot flying Ryanair planes for 25+ years while having serious safety concerns makes no sense to me.
His complaint has all the appearance of a parting shot before retirement and backed by other company's aviation unions as per the earlier link i.e. Quote We hope this award will reinforce Ryanair pilots' determination to strive for fair employment conditions and continue to be united in their effort.
.
Would you consider safety a 'fair employment condition'?
Would you also consider due process a 'fair employment condition' or does appearing on TV allow instant dismissal?
Quote from: muppet on August 15, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
A pilot flying Ryanair planes for 25+ years while having serious safety concerns makes no sense to me.
His complaint has all the appearance of a parting shot before retirement and backed by other company's aviation unions as per the earlier link i.e. Quote We hope this award will reinforce Ryanair pilots' determination to strive for fair employment conditions and continue to be united in their effort.
.
Would you consider safety a 'fair employment condition'?
The guy can't sign a document saying he was happy with the working conditions and safety of Ryanair one week then go and lambast them on the TV the next . . . unless he was kidnapped in a nightclub in Ibiza and held at gunpoint :o :o
Quote from: screenexile on August 15, 2013, 11:56:15 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 15, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
A pilot flying Ryanair planes for 25+ years while having serious safety concerns makes no sense to me.
His complaint has all the appearance of a parting shot before retirement and backed by other company's aviation unions as per the earlier link i.e. Quote We hope this award will reinforce Ryanair pilots' determination to strive for fair employment conditions and continue to be united in their effort.
.
Would you consider safety a 'fair employment condition'?
The guy can't sign a document saying he was happy with the working conditions and safety of Ryanair one week then go and lambast them on the TV the next . . . unless he was kidnapped in a nightclub in Ibiza and held at gunpoint :o :o
What EXACTLY was the document Ryanair alleged he signed?
Quote from: muppet on August 15, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
Would you consider safety a 'fair employment condition'?
Would you also consider due process a 'fair employment condition' or does appearing on TV allow instant dismissal?
Looks like he will have his second day in court but I can certainly see why his employer considered his TV appearance gross misconduct. I am sure he has a big HR file.
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 02:33:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 15, 2013, 11:53:42 AM
Would you consider safety a 'fair employment condition'?
Would you also consider due process a 'fair employment condition' or does appearing on TV allow instant dismissal?
Looks like he will have his second day in court but I can certainly see why his employer considered his TV appearance gross misconduct. I am sure he has a big HR file.
Can you explain why?
Most people make assumptions on the basis that everything is as it appears and that all parties are somewhat reasonable.
Quote from: muppet on August 15, 2013, 11:11:03 AM
If anyone wants an interesting read, this is an incident that occurred when a Ryanair aircraft taxiing at Barcelona collided with a stationary American Airlines aircraft which was waiting to take off.
There was significant damage to both aircraft. Both aircraft took off and, in the case of the AA aircraft, they didn't know about the collision.
Passengers on board the Ryanair witnessed the collision, they informed the Cabin Crew, who informed the Captain, who did nothing. The Captain noticed damage on the ground at the destination, Ibiza. Ryanair then contacted American Airlines. Ryanair continued to fly their aircraft with the damage, American Airlines withdrew their aircraft from service to repair the damage.
http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DADD9E31-B11F-449B-913E-92BC0487C4EC/112681/2011_011_IN_ENG.pdf (http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/DADD9E31-B11F-449B-913E-92BC0487C4EC/112681/2011_011_IN_ENG.pdf)
http://avherald.com/h?article=45363621 (http://avherald.com/h?article=45363621)
The report made 2 recommendations, one regarding painted markings on the ground at Barcelona and the other effectively blaming the Ryanair Cabin Crew for 'ineffectual communications'.
In my opinion, the latter is a massive cop out and ignores the fact that the Captain was made away that at least one passenger believed there was a collision involved the aircraft, before take off. The Captain, for whatever reason, did not investigate this information and thus allowed two damaged aircraft to get airborne. Any sane person would have delayed takeoff to make sure the aircraft was not damaged. There was no mention of the investigation looking into Time Pressures or Safety Reporting cultures.
Today the Department of Transport and the IAA are out defending Ryanair after the Channel 4 programme: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aviation-watchdog-accuses-channel-4-of-misguided-attack-1.1492773 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/aviation-watchdog-accuses-channel-4-of-misguided-attack-1.1492773)
Irish Regulation in general has a pretty poor reputation after the Financial Debacle. The Fundamentals are sound, the banks are fully funded, nothing to see here in Aviation either lads.
GRMA Muppet.
Very interesting. Irish regulation is nothing to be proud of and with one of the biggest private companies in the country who calls the shots ?
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3561141 (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3561141)
The above is the link to the programme in question. It is only 27 minutes long.
The man who was fired speaks three times.
After about a minute he speaks of the lack of confidence of most of his colleagues in the 'safety agencies'. He doesn't seem to mention Ryanair in that exchange.
After 10 minutes he is back and mentions the fuel league table Ryanair apparently uses to keep tabs on how much fuel each pilot uses. He said it annoyed him. When asked about managements view he said you would have to ask them. (This fuel table is common knowledge in the public domain: http://www.thejournal.ie/oleary-has-no-concerns-over-ryanair-fuel-policy-1034330-Aug2013/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/oleary-has-no-concerns-over-ryanair-fuel-policy-1034330-Aug2013/) - "We don't want boy racers flying our planes")
After 24 minutes he spoke of confidential reports made to the IAA and his belief that they were not appropriately acted upon. He speaks about the industry generally and the sharing of information regarding incidents so that everyone can learn form everyone else's mistakes. He makes a comment regarding Ryanair in this context. (This is a given in the industry and is why anyone can pull reports on any major event off the net with ease). He reiterates his lack of confidence in the agencies.
Most of his airtime was commenting about 'safety agencies' so the conspiracy theories about a Trade Union agenda ring hollow. He said very little regarding Ryanair directly so the sacking looks ludicrous, especially when they could have started a process and grounded him until he retires in 2 months. In my opinion the sacking was a message for the others.
When can i book one of these £8 flights to US?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 15, 2013, 04:25:38 PM
When can i book one of these £8 flights to US?
There is a fella on the bridge I sold to Lawnseed selling them.
Quote from: muppet on August 15, 2013, 03:57:45 PM
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3561141 (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3561141)
The above is the link to the programme in question. It is only 27 minutes long.
The man who was fired speaks three times.
After about a minute he speaks of the lack of confidence of most of his colleagues in the 'safety agencies'. He doesn't seem to mention Ryanair in that exchange.
After 10 minutes he is back and mentions the fuel league table Ryanair apparently uses to keep tabs on how much fuel each pilot uses. He said it annoyed him. When asked about managements view he said you would have to ask them. (This fuel table is common knowledge in the public domain: http://www.thejournal.ie/oleary-has-no-concerns-over-ryanair-fuel-policy-1034330-Aug2013/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/oleary-has-no-concerns-over-ryanair-fuel-policy-1034330-Aug2013/) - "We don't want boy racers flying our planes")
After 24 minutes he spoke of confidential reports made to the IAA and his belief that they were not appropriately acted upon. He speaks about the industry generally and the sharing of information regarding incidents so that everyone can learn form everyone else's mistakes. He makes a comment regarding Ryanair in this context. (This is a given in the industry and is why anyone can pull reports on any major event off the net with ease). He reiterates his lack of confidence in the agencies.
Most of his airtime was commenting about 'safety agencies' so the conspiracy theories about a Trade Union agenda ring hollow. He said very little regarding Ryanair directly so the sacking looks ludicrous, especially when they could have started a process and grounded him until he retires in 2 months. In my opinion the sacking was a message for the others.
I wonder what happens to his pension.
Why would Ryanair want to compromise on safety ? The whole low cost model fails if consumers believe that they are at more risk by flying low cost.
I assume what happened here the raised his concerns internally and they were rejected. He then raised his concerns with the IAA and they were rejected.
As the IAA have said "The fact that the outcome of an investigation or analysis does not concur with the views of the persons concerned does not alter the fact that they were investigated in full.
I have worked with people like this who just keep asking the same question in a different way when their views are rejected. It is absolutely wearying for both sides. How he could spend 26 + years working for them is baffling.
What pension?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/you-thought-ryanairs-attendants-had-it-bad-wait-til-you-hear-about-their-pilots-8621681.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/you-thought-ryanairs-attendants-had-it-bad-wait-til-you-hear-about-their-pilots-8621681.html)
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
Why would Ryanair want to compromise on safety ? The whole low cost model fails if consumers believe that they are at more risk by flying low cost.
I assume what happened here the raised his concerns internally and they were rejected. He then raised his concerns with the IAA and they were rejected.
As the IAA have said "The fact that the outcome of an investigation or analysis does not concur with the views of the persons concerned does not alter the fact that they were investigated in full.
I have worked with people like this who just keep asking the same question in a different way when their views are rejected. It is absolutely wearying for both sides. How he could spend 26 + years working for them is baffling.
You are joking right?
The market was supposed to protect us from poorly run banks wasn't it?
One for BCarrier: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ryanair-lapse-sparks-safety-spat-204301/ (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ryanair-lapse-sparks-safety-spat-204301/)
Ryanair lapse sparks safety spat
Print
By: LONDON 09:20 24 Jan 2006 Source:
Airline's failure to send 737 incident report to Irish authorities delays Italian investigation by four months.
The Italian authorities are launching an investigation into a series of flawed approaches flown into Rome by the crew of a Ryanair Boeing 737-800. The controversial incident has prompted the Irish Airline Pilots Association (IALPA) to question whether Ireland has an adequate safety oversight system in place.
Italian air accident investigation agency ANSV's decision to investigate comes four months after the 7 September 2005 incident because, it claims, it has only just been handed details by the Irish Air Accident Investigation Unit (AAIU). Read the précis here.
Ryanair's internal report on the Rome Ciampino airport-bound 737 – the only investigation carried out so far – refers to the crew's "almost complete loss of situational awareness, both lateral and vertical", while attempting a diversion to Rome Fiumicino because of storms at Ciampino, ascribing this to high workload in turbulent weather and failure to follow standard operating procedures.
The airline informed the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) and the AAIU that the event had occurred, but Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary admits that the carrier "screwed up" by failing to send them the final draft of its report.
The report says that, when the captain repeatedly failed to capture the instrument landing system on approach to Fiumicino, the co-pilot became concerned. "The first officer repeatedly prompted the captain to ensure he was not suffering some form of partial incapacitation, and when he realised that the aircraft was now in a potentially unsafe situation he urged the aircraft [sic] to perform a go-around, pulled back on the control column and advanced the thrust levers, but he did not assume control from the captain," it says.
The captain had suffered the death of his young son a few days before the Düsseldorf-Ciampino flight, but had gone back on duty without notifying flight operations. Since then, says the report, existing instructions in the operations manual "for anyone who finds themselves in this situation" have been clarified.
The AAIU has previously reported that on 21 July last year a Ryanair crew carried out "an irrational and inexplicable" steep approach to land at Stockholm Skavsta airport, touching down at 180kt (330km/h) in the wrong configuration (Flight International, 11-17 October 2005). The agency attributed the pilot's behaviour to stress related to family concerns.
Capt Evan Cullen, head of IALPA, says of the Ryanair Ciampino flight report: "There has been an excessive tendency to criticise the pilots without attempting to understand the situation. The report quotes no information from the flight data recorder [FDR]." O'Leary says the pilots had not "pulled" the data from the FDR at the time, and the report uses information from the aircraft's operational flight data monitoring unit.
Cullen says: "While not commenting on any particular incident or airline, there is no doubt that the safety margins in Irish aviation have been eroded. The important question is whether we have in place the regulatory oversight system to alert us when the safety margin has been eroded to an unsafe extent."
The IAA says it "routinely audits Ryanair's line operations from the flightdeck and training standards, and follows up and investigates reported incidents in a systematic manner".
DAVID LEARMOUNT / LONDON
Another one:
"Having had to consider Ryanair's untruths to the Court, its untruths about the Court and its untruths about the Minister, one has to conclude that the truth and Ryanair are uncomfortable bedfellows" (Mr Justice Peter Kelly, High Court Judge June 2010).
I'm with Muppet here.
Fairly clear to me.
I wouldn't trust Michael O'Leary as far as I could throw him.
Two cases in seven years ...considering the amount of people Ryanair piss off on a regular basis if there was a real safety issue there it would have been outed long ago.
As for the market and the banks :'( I think we already have a thread for that but the unions and Bertie's benchmarking have plenty to answer for the state of the country too.
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 05:55:14 PM
Two cases in seven years ...considering the amount of people Ryanair piss off on a regular basis if there was a real safety issue there it would have been outed long ago.
As for the market and the banks :'( I think we already have a thread for that but the unions and Bertie's benchmarking have plenty to answer for the state of the country too.
Just because you have only seen the two I have posted doesn't mean there are
only two.
How many more would you like? I've got lots.
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
Why would Ryanair want to compromise on safety ? The whole low cost model fails if consumers believe that they are at more risk by flying low cost.
"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greater good of everyone." (John Maynard Keynes)
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2013, 07:32:42 PM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
Why would Ryanair want to compromise on safety ? The whole low cost model fails if consumers believe that they are at more risk by flying low cost.
"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greater good of everyone." (John Maynard Keynes)
Why would Anglo want to compromise on risk?
You're a f**king idiot muppet
Simon Calder is a man I'd trust. says Ryanair have an obsession with safety here (in passing ) ...
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/simon-calder/simon-calders-holiday-helpdesk-how-reliable-is-mexican-airline-interjet-8565923.html
Ryanair fly over 500,000 flights per year btw.
Quote from: seafoid on August 15, 2013, 07:32:42 PM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 04:34:31 PM
Why would Ryanair want to compromise on safety ? The whole low cost model fails if consumers believe that they are at more risk by flying low cost.
"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greater good of everyone." (John Maynard Keynes)
Sorry comrade but I am pretty sure Aeroflot Cubana and china have some of the worst safety records of airlines.
I can't believe John Maynard Keynes ever uttered such an abomination as "most wickedest".
Carry on.
Quote from: bcarrier on August 15, 2013, 09:30:09 PM
Simon Calder is a man I'd trust. says Ryanair have an obsession with safety here (in passing ) ...
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/simon-calder/simon-calders-holiday-helpdesk-how-reliable-is-mexican-airline-interjet-8565923.html
Ryanair fly over 500,000 flights per year btw.
"Simon Calder's Holiday Helpdesk"!
I published reports from the Air Accident Investigation Unit and you give me "Simon Calder's Holiday Helpdesk".
Now I could be wrong, but I'm getting a feeling that Muppet doesn't much like Ryanair. ::)
Quote from: StephenC on August 15, 2013, 10:49:17 PM
Now I could be wrong, but I'm getting a feeling that Muppet doesn't much like Ryanair. ::)
With deductive powers and mental acuity such as like that, I am guessing you are the regulator.
I gave you the context of 500000 flights a year and the opinion of one of Gbs senior travel writers and man regularly wheeled out on bbc on occasions such as this. If you don't want be believe the Irish regulator it is another different opinion. I only came across it because I was checking out interjet.
Anyway we are unlikely to agree about the merits of Ryanair as a carrier so I'll park it there.
Quote from: bcarrier on August 16, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
I gave you the context of 500000 flights a year and the opinion of one of Gbs senior travel writers and man regularly wheeled out on bbc on occasions such as this. If you don't want be believe the Irish regulator it is another different opinion. I only came across it because I was checking out interjet.
Anyway we are unlikely to agree about the merits of Ryanair as a carrier so I'll park it there.
I made you an offer and you ignored it. Fair enough.
But spare me the travel writer bullshit artist. He writes about holiday destinations. John Goss was an Air Safety Offier which normally reports directly to the CX or equivalent on safety matters.
Calder wrote that Ryanair was 'obsessed' with safety. No airline is obsessed with safety. If they were they wouldn't fly. There is always a risk in flying but it is about the management of acceptable levels of risk. If Ryanair was 'obsessed' they wouldn't be arguing that the absolute legal minimum fuel load is equal to their policy. They would put a margin on it, like other airlines.
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 16, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
I gave you the context of 500000 flights a year and the opinion of one of Gbs senior travel writers and man regularly wheeled out on bbc on occasions such as this. If you don't want be believe the Irish regulator it is another different opinion. I only came across it because I was checking out interjet.
Anyway we are unlikely to agree about the merits of Ryanair as a carrier so I'll park it there.
If Ryanair was 'obsessed' they wouldn't be arguing that the absolute legal minimum fuel load is equal to their policy. They would put a margin on it, like other airlines.
What is the story with their fuel policy? O'Leary claims they allow for an extra hour or two of flying and their pilots have the discresion to add more if they feel they need it?
Quote from: heffo on August 16, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 16, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
I gave you the context of 500000 flights a year and the opinion of one of Gbs senior travel writers and man regularly wheeled out on bbc on occasions such as this. If you don't want be believe the Irish regulator it is another different opinion. I only came across it because I was checking out interjet.
Anyway we are unlikely to agree about the merits of Ryanair as a carrier so I'll park it there.
If Ryanair was 'obsessed' they wouldn't be arguing that the absolute legal minimum fuel load is equal to their policy. They would put a margin on it, like other airlines.
What is the story with their fuel policy? O'Leary claims they allow for an extra hour or two of flying and their pilots have the discresion to add more if they feel they need it?
You fly from A to B. O'Leary says they have enough fuel to fly from A to B plus say an hour. To the uninformed that sounds like a lot. The problem is every time you hear a minor story of an event at any given airport (like this one at Dublin this week: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/united-airlines-washington-bound-plane-2165983 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/united-airlines-washington-bound-plane-2165983)) the airport is likely to close for a while. If you are on your flight from A to Dublin, you now need that hours fuel or you are in serious trouble. Of that hour you will use half an hour to get to say Belfast or Shannon. You are now left with 30 minutes. Any further delay anywhere along the line and by law you must declare a 'mayday'. Stress levels will be through the roof. If, as the Dispatches programme outlined, there are other aircraft in the same boat at the same time (3 Ryanair and 1 LanChile in the Dispatches case), they all declare maydays. This will mean you have fuel for a maximum of two attempts left to land. If (I know there are a lot of ifs but these things happen) there is any weather issues you will really test the moral fibre of the Air Traffic Controllers and the Pilots involved.
The regulations deal with this by given a formula to calculate the minimum fuel:
It is the sum of the following -
Taxi fuel (gate to runway outbound)
Trip fuel (to fly from takeoff at A to landing at B)
Contingency (usually 5% of trip fuel - if a flight is 60 minutes this means 3 minutes extra)
Alternate fuel (to fly from B to a designated alternate C - Shannon in my example above)
Reserve (30 minutes)
Extra (This is what the row is about)
Some airlines add a minimum extra. The regulations define it as whatever the Captain decides is needed considering all factors including weather, technical issues etc. Ryanair policy is to take no extra and they produce a league table of pilots from the 'best' to the 'worst' at taking extra fuel. Ryanair say this is motivational, the pilots say it is intimidation and that some pilots will not take extra even if they know they need it.
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: heffo on August 16, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 16, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
I gave you the context of 500000 flights a year and the opinion of one of Gbs senior travel writers and man regularly wheeled out on bbc on occasions such as this. If you don't want be believe the Irish regulator it is another different opinion. I only came across it because I was checking out interjet.
Anyway we are unlikely to agree about the merits of Ryanair as a carrier so I'll park it there.
If Ryanair was 'obsessed' they wouldn't be arguing that the absolute legal minimum fuel load is equal to their policy. They would put a margin on it, like other airlines.
What is the story with their fuel policy? O'Leary claims they allow for an extra hour or two of flying and their pilots have the discresion to add more if they feel they need it?
You fly from A to B. O'Leary says they have enough fuel to fly from A to B plus say an hour. To the uninformed that sounds like a lot. The problem is every time you hear a minor story of an event at any given airport (like this one at Dublin this week: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/united-airlines-washington-bound-plane-2165983 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/united-airlines-washington-bound-plane-2165983)) the airport is likely to close for a while. If you are on your flight from A to Dublin, you now need that hours fuel or you are in serious trouble. Of that hour you will use half an hour to get to say Belfast or Shannon. You are now left with 30 minutes. Any further delay anywhere along the line and by law you must declare a 'mayday'. Stress levels will be through the roof. If, as the Dispatches programme outlined, there are other aircraft in the same boat at the same time (3 Ryanair and 1 LanChile in the Dispatches case), they all declare maydays. This will mean you have fuel for a maximum of two attempts left to land. If (I know there are a lot of ifs but these things happen) there is any weather issues you will really test the moral fibre of the Air Traffic Controllers and the Pilots involved.
The regulations deal with this by given a formula to calculate the minimum fuel:
It is the sum of the following -
Taxi fuel (gate to runway outbound)
Trip fuel (to fly from takeoff at A to landing at B)
Contingency (usually 5% of trip fuel - if a flight is 60 minutes this means 3 minutes extra)
Alternate fuel (to fly from B to a designated alternate C - Shannon in my example above)
Reserve (30 minutes)
Extra (This is what the row is about)
Some airlines add a minimum extra. The regulations define it as whatever the Captain decides is needed considering all factors including weather, technical issues etc. Ryanair policy is to take no extra and they produce a league table of pilots from the 'best' to the 'worst' at taking extra fuel. Ryanair say this is motivational, the pilots say it is intimidation and that some pilots will not take extra even if they know they need it.
How would that compare to say Aer Lingus/BA/Air France in terms of their fuel policy?
I know of a story of a flight that was flying from Lanzarote to Dublin. It hit very heavy turbulence and headwinds, it had to make an emergency refuelling stop-off in in Cardiff as the plane didn't have enough fuel to make it as far as Dublin. It was scary stuff but it wasn't Ryanair but a different low cost airline. This may be something that Muppet could advise about if it is a regular occurrence, my father in law was on the flight and coincidentally I happened to know the pilot as well ;)
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 09:30:15 AM
Quote from: heffo on August 16, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 08:49:29 AM
Quote from: bcarrier on August 16, 2013, 07:05:22 AM
I gave you the context of 500000 flights a year and the opinion of one of Gbs senior travel writers and man regularly wheeled out on bbc on occasions such as this. If you don't want be believe the Irish regulator it is another different opinion. I only came across it because I was checking out interjet.
Anyway we are unlikely to agree about the merits of Ryanair as a carrier so I'll park it there.
If Ryanair was 'obsessed' they wouldn't be arguing that the absolute legal minimum fuel load is equal to their policy. They would put a margin on it, like other airlines.
What is the story with their fuel policy? O'Leary claims they allow for an extra hour or two of flying and their pilots have the discresion to add more if they feel they need it?
You fly from A to B. O'Leary says they have enough fuel to fly from A to B plus say an hour. To the uninformed that sounds like a lot. The problem is every time you hear a minor story of an event at any given airport (like this one at Dublin this week: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/united-airlines-washington-bound-plane-2165983 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/united-airlines-washington-bound-plane-2165983)) the airport is likely to close for a while. If you are on your flight from A to Dublin, you now need that hours fuel or you are in serious trouble. Of that hour you will use half an hour to get to say Belfast or Shannon. You are now left with 30 minutes. Any further delay anywhere along the line and by law you must declare a 'mayday'. Stress levels will be through the roof. If, as the Dispatches programme outlined, there are other aircraft in the same boat at the same time (3 Ryanair and 1 LanChile in the Dispatches case), they all declare maydays. This will mean you have fuel for a maximum of two attempts left to land. If (I know there are a lot of ifs but these things happen) there is any weather issues you will really test the moral fibre of the Air Traffic Controllers and the Pilots involved.
The regulations deal with this by given a formula to calculate the minimum fuel:
It is the sum of the following -
Taxi fuel (gate to runway outbound)
Trip fuel (to fly from takeoff at A to landing at B)
Contingency (usually 5% of trip fuel - if a flight is 60 minutes this means 3 minutes extra)
Alternate fuel (to fly from B to a designated alternate C - Shannon in my example above)
Reserve (30 minutes)
Extra (This is what the row is about)
Some airlines add a minimum extra. The regulations define it as whatever the Captain decides is needed considering all factors including weather, technical issues etc. Ryanair policy is to take no extra and they produce a league table of pilots from the 'best' to the 'worst' at taking extra fuel. Ryanair say this is motivational, the pilots say it is intimidation and that some pilots will not take extra even if they know they need it.
Insightful. I take it there is no financial incentive to be at the top of this league table and it's just used as a dressing down for pilots at the bottom?
Quote from: heffo on August 16, 2013, 11:41:41 AM
How would that compare to say Aer Lingus/BA/Air France in terms of their fuel policy?
The same legal minimum would apply. A company extra may be added (Aer Lingus used to add about 15 minutes - don't know about the others) and then the Captain can take whatever he feels is needed on top.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 16, 2013, 11:48:41 AM
I know of a story of a flight that was flying from Lanzarote to Dublin. It hit very heavy turbulence and headwinds, it had to make an emergency refuelling stop-off in in Cardiff as the plane didn't have enough fuel to make it as far as Dublin. It was scary stuff but it wasn't Ryanair but a different low cost airline. This may be something that Muppet could advise about if it is a regular occurrence, my father in law was on the flight and coincidentally I happened to know the pilot as well ;)
Lanzarote often has another issue. You mention headwinds, if the wind there is from the Northeast, which it often is there is a limit to the weight they can get off the runway due to local terrain. If the flight is full then that may reduce the extra fuel that could be taken. Some airlines stop en route for fuel when than happens although I am surprised to see you mention Cardiff. Were they flying to an Irish airport?
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 16, 2013, 11:48:41 AM
I know of a story of a flight that was flying from Lanzarote to Dublin. It hit very heavy turbulence and headwinds, it had to make an emergency refuelling stop-off in in Cardiff as the plane didn't have enough fuel to make it as far as Dublin. It was scary stuff but it wasn't Ryanair but a different low cost airline. This may be something that Muppet could advise about if it is a regular occurrence, my father in law was on the flight and coincidentally I happened to know the pilot as well ;)
Lanzarote often has another issue. You mention headwinds, if the wind there is from the Northeast, which it often is there is a limit to the weight they can get off the runway due to local terrain. If the flight is full then that may reduce the extra fuel that could be taken. Some airlines stop en route for fuel when than happens although I am surprised to see you mention Cardiff. Were they flying to an Irish airport?
They were flying into Dublin, but the Captain was a bit of a bluffer so good only knows where he was flying for, may have ended up in a field around Malahide for all he knew ;D
Quote from: Croí na hÉireann on August 16, 2013, 12:27:52 PM
Insightful. I take it there is no financial incentive to be at the top of this league table and it's just used as a dressing down for pilots at the bottom?
I don't think so and I think it would be problematic if they did. It could be argued that they would be overtly discouraging people taking fuel by rewarding those who don't.
One of the issues is that every flying day is different. A crew could fly to Paris 20 days in a month and reasonably decide that there was no need for extra fuel on each day. Then on the 21th day, thunderstorms, runway equipment downgraded or whatever might persuade a Captain he needs some extra. It is not a problem in most airlines. Ryanair says it is not a problem with them either. Some of their pilots disagree. This is one of the main issues discussed on the Dispatches .
The 2nd issue is the Cockpit Voice Recorder (Black Box in media land - even though it is bright orange). A number of serious incidents have occurred where investigators found the CVR was not 'pulled' or secured for analysis. This is because the next flight departed and it was recorded over. Ryanair insists this is the pilots' fault. The pilots say they couldn't save it as they had to go on the next flight. In my opinion Ryanair's argument is weak here. They blame the pilot for not securing the CVR, as per the Ryanair Operations Manual, but everyone knows you don't delay a Ryanair flight. The culprit here really in my opinion is the IAA who should issue a serious sanction, but won't.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 16, 2013, 01:29:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 16, 2013, 11:48:41 AM
I know of a story of a flight that was flying from Lanzarote to Dublin. It hit very heavy turbulence and headwinds, it had to make an emergency refuelling stop-off in in Cardiff as the plane didn't have enough fuel to make it as far as Dublin. It was scary stuff but it wasn't Ryanair but a different low cost airline. This may be something that Muppet could advise about if it is a regular occurrence, my father in law was on the flight and coincidentally I happened to know the pilot as well ;)
Lanzarote often has another issue. You mention headwinds, if the wind there is from the Northeast, which it often is there is a limit to the weight they can get off the runway due to local terrain. If the flight is full then that may reduce the extra fuel that could be taken. Some airlines stop en route for fuel when than happens although I am surprised to see you mention Cardiff. Were they flying to an Irish airport?
They were flying into Dublin, but the Captain was a bit of a bluffer so good only knows where he was flying for, may have ended up in a field around Malahide for all he knew ;D
Must have been a Cross man so!
I haven't mentioned it here before but I know the man fired.
He is a solid individual, thoughtful and never says two words where one will do. He is genuine on his safety concerns. Ryanair could be in trouble for firing him without process, especially when he was mainly talking about the IAA. The court cases will be very interesting.
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 01:39:42 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 16, 2013, 01:29:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 01:26:24 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on August 16, 2013, 11:48:41 AM
I know of a story of a flight that was flying from Lanzarote to Dublin. It hit very heavy turbulence and headwinds, it had to make an emergency refuelling stop-off in in Cardiff as the plane didn't have enough fuel to make it as far as Dublin. It was scary stuff but it wasn't Ryanair but a different low cost airline. This may be something that Muppet could advise about if it is a regular occurrence, my father in law was on the flight and coincidentally I happened to know the pilot as well ;)
Lanzarote often has another issue. You mention headwinds, if the wind there is from the Northeast, which it often is there is a limit to the weight they can get off the runway due to local terrain. If the flight is full then that may reduce the extra fuel that could be taken. Some airlines stop en route for fuel when than happens although I am surprised to see you mention Cardiff. Were they flying to an Irish airport?
They were flying into Dublin, but the Captain was a bit of a bluffer so good only knows where he was flying for, may have ended up in a field around Malahide for all he knew ;D
Must have been a Cross man so!
Flying on red then.
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 01:41:37 PM
I haven't mentioned it here before but I know the man fired.
He is a solid individual, thoughtful and never says two words where one will do. He is genuine on his safety concerns. Ryanair could be in trouble for firing him without process, especially when he was mainly talking about the IAA. The court cases will be very interesting.
There you go then :-\.
I will genuinely try to keep an open mind on it.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/16/ryanair-spectacle-business-without-trust
Quote from: bcarrier on August 16, 2013, 02:23:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 16, 2013, 01:41:37 PM
I haven't mentioned it here before but I know the man fired.
He is a solid individual, thoughtful and never says two words where one will do. He is genuine on his safety concerns. Ryanair could be in trouble for firing him without process, especially when he was mainly talking about the IAA. The court cases will be very interesting.
There you go then :-\.
I will genuinely try to keep an open mind on it.
To be fair I should probably have said that at the start.
We are the Liberia of the Aviation world:
http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/08/21/ryanair-loses-in-norwegian-court/ (http://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/08/21/ryanair-loses-in-norwegian-court/)
Ryanair loses in Norwegian court
August 21, 2013
UPDATED: Irish low-fare airline Ryanair was handed a surprise defeat Wednesday by an appeals court in Norway, which ruled that a labour conflict with a former flight attendant must be tried in a Norwegian court, not in Ireland. Ryanair called the ruling "bizarre" and vowed an immediate appeal.
Flight attendant Allesandra Cocca has claimed she was wrongly dismissed from her job while stationed at Ryanair's Norwegian based at the Rygge Airport south of Moss. Cocca revealed details of what it's like to work for Ryanair – how new employees start off in debt to the airline because they've had to pay for their training and uniforms, for example, and then receive low base pay and few if any benefits. She likened her work agreement to a "slave contract," much to the objections of Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary.
The alleged working conditions at Ryanair do not conform to Norway's own strict labour regulations regarding pay and benefits such as sick leave, but Ryanair has argued that Norwegian law doesn't apply to them. A company spokesman repeated that on Wednesday, calling the appeals court's "inexplicable and unsound" because most of Cocca's work took place "outside Norway, by an Italian citizen employed on an Irish contract by an Irish company subject to Irish law and who paid her taxes and fees in Ireland."
Ryanair spokesman Robin Kiely told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK) that Cocca's salary was paid into an Irish bank account and that she spent her working hours on board Irish-registered aircraft, which by law is defined as Irish territory. "Clearly she worked in Ireland, not Norway," according to Ryanair, which has used the same argument to avoid tougher labour laws in other countries in Europe.
Cocca, who has claimed that employees of Ryanair "have no rights," was supported in her lawsuit against Ryanair by Norwegian labour organization Parat, which called the appeals court ruling "a fantastic victory, and the start of fair competition within European aviation."
Ryanair had won at the lower court level and declared it would appeal to Norway's Supreme Court, with Kiely saying the airline had "instructed its lawyers to immediately appeal this bizarre decision to the Norwegian Supreme Court."
"I really hope they will," claimed Vegard Einan of Parat, which also represents flight attendants at airlines competing against Ryanair. "Both Parat and Alessandra Cocca will be very glad to have this case heard by Norway's highest court. Then we will certainly get an even stronger voice in the EU and the EU court."
Others questioned whether Einan should be as "euphoric" as he said he was following Wednesday's appeals court decision. Marie Nesvik at the University of Oslo has studied Ryanair's case and its claims regarding in which country Ryanair's employees on board its aircraft are actually based. She said she wasn't surprised by the ruling from the Norwegian appeals court (Borgarting lagmannsrett) but noted that it only addressed the question of which country's courts should handle the case.
"Another question is which country's laws must be followed," Nesvik told newspaper Dagsavisen on Thursday. That raises additional legal questions over interpretation of both Norwegian and European legal obligations, and whether Norwegian practice or Irish will ultimately prevail.
Quote from: muppet on August 23, 2013, 09:20:39 AM
We are the Liberia of the Aviation world
Do other airlines use Ireland as flag of convenience?
Quote from: deiseach on August 23, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 23, 2013, 09:20:39 AM
We are the Liberia of the Aviation world
Do other airlines use Ireland as flag of convenience?
Yes. Alitalia and many other airlines register their aircraft in Ireland to avoid local legal issues that are, eh shall we say, processed quickly in Ireland. Defenders of this practise will point to various issues in Italy, which is partly true, but it doesn't explain why it is always Ireland that is used.
See the reg starting with 'EI':
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab38/samnewsome/norwih%20general/DSC_0039.jpg)
(http://www.mcroth.de/tr/italy11/tr10_062.jpg)
Quote from: muppet on August 23, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
Quote from: deiseach on August 23, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 23, 2013, 09:20:39 AM
We are the Liberia of the Aviation world
Do other airlines use Ireland as flag of convenience?
Yes. Alitalia and many other airlines register their aircraft in Ireland to avoid local legal issues that are, eh shall we say, processed quickly in Ireland. Defenders of this practise will point to various issues in Italy, which is partly true, but it doesn't explain why it is always Ireland that is used.
See the reg starting with 'EI':
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab38/samnewsome/norwih%20general/DSC_0039.jpg)
(http://www.mcroth.de/tr/italy11/tr10_062.jpg)
Point taken.
Quote from: deiseach on August 23, 2013, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 23, 2013, 10:23:26 AM
Quote from: deiseach on August 23, 2013, 10:17:59 AM
Quote from: muppet on August 23, 2013, 09:20:39 AM
We are the Liberia of the Aviation world
Do other airlines use Ireland as flag of convenience?
Yes. Alitalia and many other airlines register their aircraft in Ireland to avoid local legal issues that are, eh shall we say, processed quickly in Ireland. Defenders of this practise will point to various issues in Italy, which is partly true, but it doesn't explain why it is always Ireland that is used.
See the reg starting with 'EI':
(http://i847.photobucket.com/albums/ab38/samnewsome/norwih%20general/DSC_0039.jpg)
(http://www.mcroth.de/tr/italy11/tr10_062.jpg)
Point taken.
No VRT on aircraft so.
http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Norwegian+takes+transatlantic+step+Ryanair+has+long+avoided/id/19410615-5218-5225-e435-0fbec8745055 (http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Norwegian+takes+transatlantic+step+Ryanair+has+long+avoided/id/19410615-5218-5225-e435-0fbec8745055)
Norwegian takes transatlantic step Ryanair has long avoided
14:35, 3 September 2013 by Fearghal O'Connor
Norwegian Air is to offer flights from Scandinavia to California.
Ryanair's Scandinavian rival in the low fares market Norwegian Air has taken a step long predicted for the Irish airline but never taken.
Norwegian Air is to offer flights from Scandinavia to California using Boeing 787 Dreamliner planes it says have made long-haul discount routes newly viable, in the latest expansion of a strategy that other European low cost carriers have avoided to date. There has been speculation for a long time that Ryanair would move into the transatlantic market and many industry experts believe that its bid to buy Aer Lingus was, at least in part, fueled by the ambition.
The airline has even been linked with the Dreamliner airliner in the past, with chief executive Michael O'Leary vigorously defending it when Boeing were forced to ground it due to safety concerns.
But Norwegian, which is one of the fastest growing airlines in Europe, has stolen a march on its Irish rival and will begin services linking Stockholm with Los Angeles in March. This will be followed by flights from Copenhagen in April and Oslo in June, with an introductory fare of $236 each way. Oakland will be served from Stockholm and Oslo starting in May.
The airline is already serving the east coast, after beginning long-haul operations in May and currently has five weekly services from Stockholm and Oslo to Bangkok and six from the two Nordic cities to New York.
"We believe that the US is low-hanging fruit," said Norwegian chief executive Bjorn Kjos today, according to a Bloomberg report. "People love to fly cheap and they love to fly far."
Norwegian has applied for a permanent air operator's certificate in Ireland to establish a low-cost domicile for the long-haul unit that would permit the addition of flights to cities such as Beijing, Kjos said. Approval may take six months.
A bad day for kn**ker capitalism
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e2e6352-1544-11e3-950a-00144feabdc0.html
Ryanair's shares fell sharply on Wednesday after Europe's leading budget airline warned that full-year profit was expected to come in at the bottom end of its target range after increased competition depressed ticket pricing.
Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2013, 01:38:13 PM
A bad day for kn**ker capitalism
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e2e6352-1544-11e3-950a-00144feabdc0.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e2e6352-1544-11e3-950a-00144feabdc0.html)
Ryanair's shares fell sharply on Wednesday after Europe's leading budget airline warned that full-year profit was expected to come in at the bottom end of its target range after increased competition depressed ticket pricing.
Presumably it was a good day for their competitors then, who I doubt are raving socialists, whatever about their activities in dead animal recovery.
Can we expect a gloating report every day it rains on Dublin Airport, where Ryanair has its headquarters, even though it's probably raining on Liberty Hall as well?
And a complaint every time it's sunny?
Quote from: Hardy on September 04, 2013, 02:28:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 04, 2013, 01:38:13 PM
A bad day for kn**ker capitalism
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e2e6352-1544-11e3-950a-00144feabdc0.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e2e6352-1544-11e3-950a-00144feabdc0.html)
Ryanair's shares fell sharply on Wednesday after Europe's leading budget airline warned that full-year profit was expected to come in at the bottom end of its target range after increased competition depressed ticket pricing.
Presumably it was a good day for their competitors then, who I doubt are raving socialists, whatever about their activities in dead animal recovery.
Can we expect a gloating report every day it rains on Dublin Airport, where Ryanair has its headquarters, even though it's probably raining on Liberty Hall as well?
And a complaint every time it's sunny?
It might have been a good day for competitors, then again it might not, many of the factors that affected Ryanair profits might also affect their profits.
As this is a thread of sorts on Ryanair what relevance would concerns about Liberty Hall have?
I would assume that the term 'kn**ker capitalism' refers to practices where Ryanair is the clear leader, the race to the bottom and doing so with unabashed cynicism. The flip side of 'kn**ker capitalism' I suppose to be some form capitalism which strives to make profits, maintain competitiveness, yet still respect such things like the rights of employees to unionise and negotiate with them.
In using the word 'kn**ker', I assume it hasn't anything at all to do with travellers, but a word to describe a type of modern 'fxck you - I dont care' culture. But as the word still has derogative associations, probably still used in reference with travellers, it's use censored here, probably advisable to use some other term.
Thanks for the explanation. You shouldn't have gone to such bother.
I won't waste time on a debate about whether a reduction in Ryanair's stock price is more or less likely to reflect an improvement in the fortunes of their competitors, considering that the event is specifically suggested to be due to "increased competition".
My simple point was the absurdity of posting a comment on a single day's movement in a stock price as if it illustrated something relevant or enduring in the fortunes of the particular company and the pathos of latching onto anything so ludicrous as something to feel good about.
Quote from: Hardy on September 04, 2013, 04:07:48 PM
Thanks for the explanation. You shouldn't have gone to such bother.
I won't waste time on a debate about whether a reduction in Ryanair's stock price is more or less likely to reflect an improvement in the fortunes of their competitors, considering that the event is specifically suggested to be due to "increased competition".
My simple point was the absurdity of posting a comment on a single day's movement in a stock price as if it illustrated something relevant or enduring in the fortunes of the particular company and the pathos of latching onto anything so ludicrous as something to feel good about.
Actually Hardy it's the first time in a long time they have stopped growing.
Fairly significant in terms of share price.
There is a limit to the O'Leary magic.
Maybe he'll turn into more of a liability.
Much as I hate to say it, the market is probably seriously over-reacting and it might be a good time to pick up Ryanair shares. Having said that many of my predictions wrt shares are 180 degrees off so be warned!
I don't get the Ryanair bashing. Quality is about perception and with them you know what you get. If they get you from A to B on time at a cheap price then they are providing a quality service is the way I see it - ultimately that is their core objective. The rest is just noise. Would I prefer to be treated more politely and not have them walking up and down shouting in my ear the whole time? For free, sure. If I have to pay an extra EUR 50-100 or more then no.
Quote from: CiKe on September 04, 2013, 05:42:28 PM
I don't get the Ryanair bashing. Quality is about perception and with them you know what you get. If they get you from A to B on time at a cheap price then they are providing a quality service is the way I see it - ultimately that is their core objective. The rest is just noise. Would I prefer to be treated more politely and not have them walking up and down shouting in my ear the whole time? For free, sure. If I have to pay an extra EUR 50-100 or more then no.
http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?44865-Paul-Ridgard-Fund (http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?44865-Paul-Ridgard-Fund)
Paul Ridgard was a First Officer with Ryanair based in Liverpool, UK. As is the case with the vast majority of Ryanair First Officers, Paul was not employed directly by Ryanair, but instead was a contract pilot contracted to fly for Ryanair through their puppet agency, Brookfield. Brookfield pilots are paid only when they fly, with no monthly guarantee. They are considered self employed and thus have no paid vacation, no paid sick days, and no employment rights. There is no pension, no loss of license insurance, no flight benefits etc. All pilots joining Ryanair in the past eight years have been 'employed' through Brookfield.
Paul was enduring a number of personal issues including a divorce when his father died earlier this year. He requested time off (unpaid) for the funeral, but this was denied. With a 9 year old son at home, the death of his father and his impending divorce, things were really starting to get on top of Paul. He did not feel mentally fit to fly and requested a period of unpaid leave to get his head straight. Ryanair again denied his request.
Shortly after this Paul started his upgrade training. As he walked out to the aircraft for his final line check as a Captain he was told by the check airman that he had already been told to fail Paul as he had been highlighted as a 'trouble maker' by Ryanair. The check airman informed him that he would never be successful in gaining an upgrade at Ryanair. After the flight Paul returned home and took his own life.
Quote from: muppet on September 04, 2013, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: CiKe on September 04, 2013, 05:42:28 PM
I don't get the Ryanair bashing. Quality is about perception and with them you know what you get. If they get you from A to B on time at a cheap price then they are providing a quality service is the way I see it - ultimately that is their core objective. The rest is just noise. Would I prefer to be treated more politely and not have them walking up and down shouting in my ear the whole time? For free, sure. If I have to pay an extra EUR 50-100 or more then no.
http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?44865-Paul-Ridgard-Fund (http://www.expressjetpilots.com/the-pipe/showthread.php?44865-Paul-Ridgard-Fund)
Paul Ridgard was a First Officer with Ryanair based in Liverpool, UK. As is the case with the vast majority of Ryanair First Officers, Paul was not employed directly by Ryanair, but instead was a contract pilot contracted to fly for Ryanair through their puppet agency, Brookfield. Brookfield pilots are paid only when they fly, with no monthly guarantee. They are considered self employed and thus have no paid vacation, no paid sick days, and no employment rights. There is no pension, no loss of license insurance, no flight benefits etc. All pilots joining Ryanair in the past eight years have been 'employed' through Brookfield.
Paul was enduring a number of personal issues including a divorce when his father died earlier this year. He requested time off (unpaid) for the funeral, but this was denied. With a 9 year old son at home, the death of his father and his impending divorce, things were really starting to get on top of Paul. He did not feel mentally fit to fly and requested a period of unpaid leave to get his head straight. Ryanair again denied his request.
Shortly after this Paul started his upgrade training. As he walked out to the aircraft for his final line check as a Captain he was told by the check airman that he had already been told to fail Paul as he had been highlighted as a 'trouble maker' by Ryanair. The check airman informed him that he would never be successful in gaining an upgrade at Ryanair. After the flight Paul returned home and took his own life.
God, hadn't seen that. Pretty horrific.
However, my comment was in relation to the fact that most of the complaints you hear from passengers are about service quality - I don't believe they are too concerned about staff conditions. Now I guess it can be a pretty toxic culture, and I'm not for a second saying I would like to work there, but the "quality" of the service (Transport from A to B) in and of itself is not an issue for me. That said, if people's complaints are about the methods used to get to that low-cost service (e.g aggressive corporate culture), then I can understand it. That's a wider issue, but perhaps shouldn't have jumped in without reading back a few pages.
Not exactly £8 tickets - $100,000 to be precise.
http://www.spacexc.com/en/home/
Bob Geldof has signed up and will be going shortly.
Be careful muppet!!
Ryanair clips wings of online critics
Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline's reputation and business.
The posting read: "I don't care if it's wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn't be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!"
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the 'always flying' tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair's excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.
Quote from: Declan on September 12, 2013, 07:47:50 AM
Be careful muppet!!
Ryanair clips wings of online critics
Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline's reputation and business.
The posting read: "I don't care if it's wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn't be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!"
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the 'always flying' tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair's excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.
Bullying.
Quote from: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 12, 2013, 07:47:50 AM
Be careful muppet!!
Ryanair clips wings of online critics
Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline's reputation and business.
The posting read: "I don't care if it's wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn't be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!"
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the 'always flying' tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair's excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.
Bullying.
Anonymous keyboard warriors.
Quote from: StephenC on September 12, 2013, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 12, 2013, 07:47:50 AM
Be careful muppet!!
Ryanair clips wings of online critics
Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline's reputation and business.
The posting read: "I don't care if it's wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn't be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!"
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the 'always flying' tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair's excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.
Bullying.
Anonymous keyboard warriors.
Do you want an apology now ?
Quote from: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: StephenC on September 12, 2013, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 12, 2013, 07:47:50 AM
Be careful muppet!!
Ryanair clips wings of online critics
Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline's reputation and business.
The posting read: "I don't care if it's wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn't be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!"
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the 'always flying' tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair's excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.
Bullying.
Anonymous keyboard warriors.
Do you want an apology now ?
You can discuss that with my legal team.
Daily Mail publisher settles Ryanair libel Mr O'Leary said the airline would continue separate legal action against Channel 4
A libel action brought by Ryanair has been settled out of court in Belfast.
The publishers of the Daily Mail and the Irish Daily Mail were the subjects of the action.
Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary said the deal vindicated the airline's standing as "one of Europe's safest airlines".
Mr O'Leary and his senior pilot were both at the High Court in Belfast for the resolution of proceedings against Associated Newspapers Ltd and Associated Newspapers (Ireland) Ltd.
Ryanair launched the action over articles based on a television documentary that claimed to reveal safety and fuel issues at the airline.
A statement read out by the newspapers' publishers as part of the confidential settlement acknowledged Ryanair planes fully complied with EU safety rules during three fuel emergency landings.
Separate legal action
"We are very pleased that the Mail has acted promptly to set the record straight in relation to our safety standards - time was of the essence," Mr O'Leary said.
Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote
Those matters will continue against other parties "
End Quote
Michael O'Leary
CEO Ryanair
"We employ 9,500 aviation professionals and today's settlement vindicates that the quality of work they do in delivering what the IAA (Irish Aviation Authority) has confirmed is one of the safest airlines in Europe."
Mr O'Leary said the airline would continue separate legal action against Channel 4 over its Dispatches documentary.
The defamation proceedings were brought against Associated Newspapers Ltd and Associated Newspapers (Ireland) Ltd over an article that appeared last month in the Irish Daily Mail and the Mail Online.
Adverse weather
Following the settlement, Michael Kealey, the defendants' legal manager in Ireland, read a statement approved by the judge to the court.
The statement detailed how the article referred to claims made by a body describing itself as a Ryanair Pilot Group and other allegations broadcast in the Channel 4 Dispatches programme.
"Ryanair does not accept the results of the survey conducted by the interim council of this group, whose chairman is a KLM pilot, or that the group represents the views of the majority of Ryanair's pilots," Mr Kealey said.
Three fuel emergency landings made in July 2012 in Valencia, Spain, were also mentioned.
"We accept that the official report produced by the Irish safety agencies confirmed that all three aircraft took on extra fuel," he said.
"All three aircraft flew for over one hour more than planned due to adverse weather and diversions from Madrid to Valencia.
"All three aircraft fully complied with EU safety rules when landing safely in Valencia."
Mr Kealey said the airline had made clear that pilots with legitimate safety concerns should report them directly to Ryanair or to the Irish Aviation Authority, using confidential safety reporting systems.
"We also accept the recent confirmation issued by the independent Irish Aviation Authority that 'Ryanair's safety is on a par with the safest airlines in Europe' and acknowledge Ryanair's 29 year safety record," he said.
Chief pilot, Captain Ray Conway, also expressed satisfaction with the "comprehensive vindication and acknowledgment" of the airline's safety record.
"While I am unable to make specific comments concerning our ongoing legal proceedings regarding Channel 4's Dispatches programme, I wish to emphasise that Ryanair cannot and will not tolerate what were totally unjustified and inappropriate allegations in relation to our industry leading safety," he said.
"Safety has been, and will always be, the absolute priority for Ryanair."
Quote from: StephenC on September 12, 2013, 10:57:46 AM
Quote from: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: StephenC on September 12, 2013, 09:20:28 AM
Quote from: orangeman on September 12, 2013, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Declan on September 12, 2013, 07:47:50 AM
Be careful muppet!!
Ryanair clips wings of online critics
Ryanair has outlined to a court in South Africa the steps it is taking around the globe to identify people who are making anonymous critical comments on the internet about its attitude towards safety.
The airline has secured an order forcing African telecoms group Telkom to furnish it with information that might help identify a person who has made internet postings using the tag alwaysflying. The company is also seeking information on a specific IP address in South Africa.
The person has made postings on an internet site called PPRuNe.org, which is used by pilots to discuss matters to do with their work.
Ryanair company secretary Juliusz Komorek told the court in an affidavit that one posting falsely portrayed the airline as having an incompetent flying crew and that this could affect the airline's reputation and business.
The posting read: "I don't care if it's wind/ delays/ weather or anything, if you are flying around your destination eating into alternate fuel then you shouldn't be a pilot. If they were employed at my company I would have fired the lot of them!"
Mr Komorek told the court the airline had no objection to honest, objective and legitimate comment, but would seek the removal of unlawful and wrong statements and seek a public apology.
The court was told Ryanair had engaged a law firm in Los Angeles, Holland & Knight LLP, to file libel proceedings against a number of defendants in the Los Angeles Superior Court.
It had also issued proceedings against Internet Brands in California, the registered owner of the PPRuNe.org site, and issued supoenas against Yahoo, Microsoft and Google in pursuit of information.
The information gathered was examined for it by specialist consultancy company Word to the Wise, which idenfied IP addresses in Ireland, the UK and South Africa.
It is understood Ryanair has indentified the person who used the 'always flying' tag and will take legal proceedings as a result. In some cases the airline has secured public apologies from people who made anonymous postings as well as donations to charities, according to one source.
Earlier this year Ryanair got court orders in the Republic instructing Eircom and UPC to provide it with information concerning the identity of parties whom, the High Court was told, had made postings that falsely impugned Ryanair's excellent safety record.
It has initiated up to six sets of legal proceedings in the Republic against individuals who made postings on PPRuNe.org concerning the airline, according to the source.
Bullying.
Anonymous keyboard warriors.
Do you want an apology now ?
You can discuss that with my legal team.
Meh.
Especially for you Muppet!
Tell Michael O'Leary what you think!
Tuesday, 15th October 2013 11.35am
Ryanair today continued with its attempts to charm its customers with an invitation to passenger to tell Michael O'Leary exactly what they think of his airline.
It today launched a new online webform where passengers can directly contact CEO, Michael O'Leary, with suggestions on exactly what he can do with his airline.
This new webform is the latest in a series of initiatives by Ryanair to improve its battered customer service record.
It has already made its app free to download and removal the Recaptcha feature as well as a new website.
"Over the past 29 years Ryanair has grown from carrying 200,000 to over 81 million customers annually by offering lower fares, great service and choice to Europe's travellers. No other airline can match our low fares, our on-time arrivals, our tiny rate of cancellations, or lost bags, or our new fleet of over 300 aircraft. But we want to keep improving our industry leading customer service and so I'm looking forward to our customers' feedback via our new online webform, which can be accessed on Ryanair.com," Ryanair's Michael O'Leary said. :D
Quote from: gerrykeegan on October 15, 2013, 12:40:37 PM
Especially for you Muppet!
Tell Michael O'Leary what you think!
Tuesday, 15th October 2013 11.35am
Ryanair today continued with its attempts to charm its customers with an invitation to passenger to tell Michael O'Leary exactly what they think of his airline.
It today launched a new online webform where passengers can directly contact CEO, Michael O'Leary, with suggestions on exactly what he can do with his airline.
This new webform is the latest in a series of initiatives by Ryanair to improve its battered customer service record.
It has already made its app free to download and removal the Recaptcha feature as well as a new website.
"Over the past 29 years Ryanair has grown from carrying 200,000 to over 81 million customers annually by offering lower fares, great service and choice to Europe's travellers. No other airline can match our low fares, our on-time arrivals, our tiny rate of cancellations, or lost bags, or our new fleet of over 300 aircraft. But we want to keep improving our industry leading customer service and so I'm looking forward to our customers' feedback via our new online webform, which can be accessed on Ryanair.com," Ryanair's Michael O'Leary said. :D
If O'Leary treats his staff and passengers properly and keeps his prices low, he will clean up. It would be hard to criticise him if he achieves that.
Somehow I think either is unlikely with him at the helm, given his history.
With Dublin scrapping the passenger tax for domestic flights and the taxes remaining in place in the North, Dublin airport will clean up as well as Ryanair and all the other airlines operating out of it.
Quote from: orangeman on October 16, 2013, 12:43:31 AM
With Dublin scrapping the passenger tax for domestic flights and the taxes remaining in place in the North, Dublin airport will clean up as well as Ryanair and all the other airlines operating out of it.
That tax is lunacy.