Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

BigBallWeeBall

As you may have seen I'm not a fan of paying coaches either but acknowledge that mileage and valid expenses go with the territory these days.
I understand that managing 30 adults would be difficult but so are positions such as club Chairman, Treasurer and Secretary.

I have yet to see a high profile retired 'outside' player come to my club for a 3 year stint and £10K on the side. Clubs can always manage to get through the tough times with their own good members.
If as a association we ignore payments that drain club funds then as I have said we will be paying for outside minor managers and maybe even club committees in the near future and further hinder clubs financial position.
When people start to get financial reward for performance then they start to put themselves first at the expense of the organisation they are working for.

Finally other posters who contribute to this board may disagee  with my perspectives but sometimes having conservative, old-fashioned and nostalgic views are a safeguard against the rapid change in GAA ethics that have stood us well to date.

paddyjohn

Quote from: BigBallWeeBall on January 17, 2021, 08:59:10 PM
As you may have seen I'm not a fan of paying coaches either but acknowledge that mileage and valid expenses go with the territory these days.
I understand that managing 30 adults would be difficult but so are positions such as club Chairman, Treasurer and Secretary.

I have yet to see a high profile retired 'outside' player come to my club for a 3 year stint and £10K on the side. Clubs can always manage to get through the tough times with their own good members.
If as a association we ignore payments that drain club funds then as I have said we will be paying for outside minor managers and maybe even club committees in the near future and further hinder clubs financial position.
When people start to get financial reward for performance then they start to put themselves first at the expense of the organisation they are working for.

Finally other posters who contribute to this board may disagee  with my perspectives but sometimes having conservative, old-fashioned and nostalgic views are a safeguard against the rapid change in GAA ethics that have stood us well to date.

My own club couldn't get a manager internally a few years ago, we went outside. What was our alternative? Not enter the leagues?

Na Glinntí Glasa

Your prob left with no option PJ but it should only be a short term solution. Long term clubs should be coaching and encouraging existing club vols to step up to that senior plate otherwise clubs will be stuck in the same cycle each year of saying 'we have no one to take it, we will have to pay someone'.

Long term that £10k should be invested back into the club for coaches, kids etc. Not invested into your senior team for a short term gain for that person to leave potentially after one season.

Getting out of that continuous cycle of paying outsiders whilst relying on vols to coach your future senior player is so important. Put some faith in your own club.
hurl like f**k boi!

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Dunloy realist on January 18, 2021, 08:49:54 AM
Your prob left with no option PJ but it should only be a short term solution. Long term clubs should be coaching and encouraging existing club vols to step up to that senior plate otherwise clubs will be stuck in the same cycle each year of saying 'we have no one to take it, we will have to pay someone'.

Long term that £10k should be invested back into the club for coaches, kids etc. Not invested into your senior team for a short term gain for that person to leave potentially after one season.

Getting out of that continuous cycle of paying outsiders whilst relying on vols to coach your future senior player is so important. Put some faith in your own club.

All jobs are generally advertised after they have been asked within the club, if no one will take the team then usually it would be back with the Com  to sort out, that's when a senior player will be asked to step in while they arrange a manager, that never happens and the senior player is left looking after the team and playing.....

Its harder than people think. If there are ones within the club that think clubs shouldn't have to to fork out, then step up to the plate, instead of the bitching behind peoples backs!
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Na Glinntí Glasa

of course it is, its very hard to keep going each year relying on vols. We have had years where no one wanted the senior football, senior camogie, minor hurling, minor football etc. We have struggled to fill those voids and its see fellas and girls take jobs on that they necessarily didn't want to do but felt compelled to do.

But its taken development committees for each codes to be formed to sort that problem out if it arose. They can source out potential coaches to step into voids and also get some more experienced along with someone new to give them a hand, guide them along and give that new coach the confidence going forward. They generally tend to stay on when they know that backing is there.

Theres always people who others think shouldnt be taking a post but as you say MR2 they are the ones who wont step up to take that post. they are happier to bitch about them behind their backs than get out 4 nights a week to train the team, travel to matches and look after the players.
hurl like f**k boi!

Milltown Row2

For me, I found it no different looking after the under 12's, South Antrim or senior teams, there is a degree of work and self expectation required.

I've looked after many a team within the club, and filled plenty of roles but its generally the same faces, popular teams have never any issues getting a manager to look after them, if there potential then they are all over it the 'in between' team that's maybe struggling is the hardest position to fill but the most important one..

I'm all for a set of managers, generally that have kids involved, to take a team from under 10 right through to minor under 21, they are familiar with the players and have respect from them, usually...

I wouldn't mind getting back into it again at juvenile, having taken the reserves last year it was a bitta craic, but when you are out of the loop you don't know a lot of these youngsters coming through.. Then at the same time I'm like, don I need the hassle lol! ?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Belfast GAA man

Quote from: paddyjohn on January 18, 2021, 01:26:02 AM
Quote from: BigBallWeeBall on January 17, 2021, 08:59:10 PM
As you may have seen I'm not a fan of paying coaches either but acknowledge that mileage and valid expenses go with the territory these days.
I understand that managing 30 adults would be difficult but so are positions such as club Chairman, Treasurer and Secretary.

I have yet to see a high profile retired 'outside' player come to my club for a 3 year stint and £10K on the side. Clubs can always manage to get through the tough times with their own good members.
If as a association we ignore payments that drain club funds then as I have said we will be paying for outside minor managers and maybe even club committees in the near future and further hinder clubs financial position.
When people start to get financial reward for performance then they start to put themselves first at the expense of the organisation they are working for.

Finally other posters who contribute to this board may disagee  with my perspectives but sometimes having conservative, old-fashioned and nostalgic views are a safeguard against the rapid change in GAA ethics that have stood us well to date.

My own club couldn't get a manager internally a few years ago, we went outside. What was our alternative? Not enter the leagues?
If there Wasnt option of going outside? a way would be found and all the coacheS who are on circuit COuld go back to their vlubs and be available

BigBallWeeBall

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on January 18, 2021, 08:49:54 AM
Your prob left with no option PJ but it should only be a short term solution. Long term clubs should be coaching and encouraging existing club vols to step up to that senior plate otherwise clubs will be stuck in the same cycle each year of saying 'we have no one to take it, we will have to pay someone'.

Long term that £10k should be invested back into the club for coaches, kids etc. Not invested into your senior team for a short term gain for that person to leave potentially after one season.

Getting out of that continuous cycle of paying outsiders whilst relying on vols to coach your future senior player is so important. Put some faith in your own club.

All jobs are generally advertised after they have been asked within the club, if no one will take the team then usually it would be back with the Com  to sort out, that's when a senior player will be asked to step in while they arrange a manager, that never happens and the senior player is left looking after the team and playing.....

Its harder than people think. If there are ones within the club that think clubs shouldn't have to to fork out, then step up to the plate, instead of the bitching behind peoples backs!
Poor MR2, upset by bitches on a discussion board who share their views.  It's blue Monday after all.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
2 Our Fathers, 6 Hail Mary's and an act of contrition for the guilty
We've all stepped up to the plate in the past and will play our parts again.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: BigBallWeeBall on January 18, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on January 18, 2021, 08:49:54 AM
Your prob left with no option PJ but it should only be a short term solution. Long term clubs should be coaching and encouraging existing club vols to step up to that senior plate otherwise clubs will be stuck in the same cycle each year of saying 'we have no one to take it, we will have to pay someone'.

Long term that £10k should be invested back into the club for coaches, kids etc. Not invested into your senior team for a short term gain for that person to leave potentially after one season.

Getting out of that continuous cycle of paying outsiders whilst relying on vols to coach your future senior player is so important. Put some faith in your own club.

All jobs are generally advertised after they have been asked within the club, if no one will take the team then usually it would be back with the Com  to sort out, that's when a senior player will be asked to step in while they arrange a manager, that never happens and the senior player is left looking after the team and playing.....

Its harder than people think. If there are ones within the club that think clubs shouldn't have to to fork out, then step up to the plate, instead of the bitching behind peoples backs!
Poor MR2, upset by bitches on a discussion board who share their views.  It's blue Monday after all.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
2 Our Fathers, 6 Hail Mary's and an act of contrition for the guilty
We've all stepped up to the plate in the past and will play our parts again.

If you read the post, its club bitches I'm talking about, not the ones on here..

You talk a lot about the rights and wrongs of the way clubs go about things, but no depth to it other than no clubs should be paying managers physios coaches S&C.... Unfortunately  that horse has bolted and trying to get that genie back in the bottle will be some ask going forward.

So with that in mind, what is your solution to the questions presented?

How do you fill a position within the club that no one wants?

Should people be out of pocket when taking a team? 

How do we encourage these coaches to step up to the plate and take the team?

Be interesting to hear how your club has done this over the years, without spending money and keeping management positions for clubmen/women only
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

EOC1923

Just to add my tuppence worth... Ideally it would all be in house and voluntary but locals generally don't want the flak / time involved in managing a senior team. Generally if someone local does fancy it (as they do every so often) they would be given the role in a heartbeat over anyone outside.
I am not against paying managers, serious time involved if doing it properly. Could Antrim look at this method as a way of improving the standard of manager they have for their underage teams. Why not have better candidates with a record of success at other levels managing our youth rather than the first person who puts their hand up. Nothing against current Antrim underage managers not sure who they are but I have heard people complain about the standard of coaching in recent years. The U14s - U17s are the players we will be depending on for the next 15 years!! Kevin Brady (Antrim legend) for example has won Macrory Cups as a coach manager. Why could he not be our u15, U17 or U20 manager instead of being coach for the Loup.

BigBallWeeBall

#20245
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 11:50:12 AM
Quote from: BigBallWeeBall on January 18, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on January 18, 2021, 08:49:54 AM
Your prob left with no option PJ but it should only be a short term solution. Long term clubs should be coaching and encouraging existing club vols to step up to that senior plate otherwise clubs will be stuck in the same cycle each year of saying 'we have no one to take it, we will have to pay someone'.

Long term that £10k should be invested back into the club for coaches, kids etc. Not invested into your senior team for a short term gain for that person to leave potentially after one season.

Getting out of that continuous cycle of paying outsiders whilst relying on vols to coach your future senior player is so important. Put some faith in your own club.

All jobs are generally advertised after they have been asked within the club, if no one will take the team then usually it would be back with the Com  to sort out, that's when a senior player will be asked to step in while they arrange a manager, that never happens and the senior player is left looking after the team and playing.....

Its harder than people think. If there are ones within the club that think clubs shouldn't have to to fork out, then step up to the plate, instead of the bitching behind peoples backs!
Poor MR2, upset by bitches on a discussion board who share their views.  It's blue Monday after all.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
2 Our Fathers, 6 Hail Mary's and an act of contrition for the guilty
We've all stepped up to the plate in the past and will play our parts again.

If you read the post, its club bitches I'm talking about, not the ones on here..

You talk a lot about the rights and wrongs of the way clubs go about things, but no depth to it other than no clubs should be paying managers physios coaches S&C.... Unfortunately  that horse has bolted and trying to get that genie back in the bottle will be some ask going forward.

So with that in mind, what is your solution to the questions presented?

How do you fill a position within the club that no one wants?

Should people be out of pocket when taking a team? 

How do we encourage these coaches to step up to the plate and take the team?

Be interesting to hear how your club has done this over the years, without spending money and keeping management positions for clubmen/women only
MR2, please read posts before commenting so that you understand the posts raised.
Then answer the questions asked not the questions you would like to answer

I have never stated that clubs should not be paying managers physios coaches S&C....just managers especially when there are decent resources within each club.
You have asked the following:

So with that in mind, what is your solution to the questions   

How do you fill a position within the club that no one wants?
Coach and encourage as always

Should people be out of pocket when taking a team?
No

How do we encourage these coaches to step up to the plate and take the team?
Development plan like most clubs have for underage coaches and an honest commitment to support coach 100%

Be interesting to hear how your club has done this over the years, without spending money and keeping management positions for clubmen/women only
My club is a sinner also like many others and we have paid and no doubt will continue to pay in the short term.

I have only said that I am against paying managers and I object at every AGM and I am vocal at other  meetings with similar content.
I'm would not see myself as a suitable candidate for senior manager and doubt others would see me as a solution but I and others have rallied in behind other members as required over the years.

Kickham csc

There are two aspects to this. The first one Is related to resources for good management within your club. If you don't have it you need to look elsewhere. if you do you should encourage  it as much as you can.

The second point relates to actual standards and if you have the people within the club who can coach your senior team to the standards that both your club, and of equal importance, your county need. For example an Antrim Division I team should be aiming for a higher standard than our current Division I tankard, so that both club and county continually raise standards to compete at a consistently higher standard.

We should be aiming for the best standards in Ulster for club football and if that means bringing in an external coach to bring us to that level Then so be it.

This is one piece of the jigsaw if we want Antrim club standard to improve in 20~30years time to improve our standing in Ulster.

Please note that Burren brought in Jackie McManus in the 80's. That's right, one of the greatest club teams ever was bring in outside management from Antrim....

Na Glinntí Glasa

Its an interesting debate here and one that has many rights and wrongs, depending on your own point of view.

How do you feel that its worked out for your own club KCSC? Your footballers have been paying for a manager for a number of years now since Micky Moran was it? correct me if im wrong here.

Do you feel that bringing in paid managers over this period of time has brought the senior team on or do you think otherwise? Its interesting to hear that side of things from clubs who bring managers in rather than source your own club. Since they started paying managers should, in that passing time, the club not of been investing as well in coaches to take that mantel on down the line. Or has that not been done at all?

Im not having a go at your club by the way, I do want to understand the long term plan of a club that pays managers year on end and if theres an end goal other than hope that they bring success (by using the unpaid underage coaches hard work to develop the kids)

We dont pay managers and i would oppose it in any shape if our senior hurlers or footballers or camogier managements were paid. Im in one of these set ups and have been for the past 7 years now.

I dont want paid. I dont go to the pitch for training and to matches twice a week for money. Ive been offered money to take other teams and turned it down as i couldnt care less about another club and how they do. I dont care about the development of their minors or U14's but i do care very much about our own players and wanting to see them do well and its why i spend countless hours doing it.

hurl like f**k boi!

Milltown Row2

Quote from: BigBallWeeBall on January 18, 2021, 06:52:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 11:50:12 AM
Quote from: BigBallWeeBall on January 18, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2021, 09:07:19 AM
Quote from: Dunloy realist on January 18, 2021, 08:49:54 AM
Your prob left with no option PJ but it should only be a short term solution. Long term clubs should be coaching and encouraging existing club vols to step up to that senior plate otherwise clubs will be stuck in the same cycle each year of saying 'we have no one to take it, we will have to pay someone'.

Long term that £10k should be invested back into the club for coaches, kids etc. Not invested into your senior team for a short term gain for that person to leave potentially after one season.

Getting out of that continuous cycle of paying outsiders whilst relying on vols to coach your future senior player is so important. Put some faith in your own club.

All jobs are generally advertised after they have been asked within the club, if no one will take the team then usually it would be back with the Com  to sort out, that's when a senior player will be asked to step in while they arrange a manager, that never happens and the senior player is left looking after the team and playing.....

Its harder than people think. If there are ones within the club that think clubs shouldn't have to to fork out, then step up to the plate, instead of the bitching behind peoples backs!
Poor MR2, upset by bitches on a discussion board who share their views.  It's blue Monday after all.
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
2 Our Fathers, 6 Hail Mary's and an act of contrition for the guilty
We've all stepped up to the plate in the past and will play our parts again.

If you read the post, its club bitches I'm talking about, not the ones on here..

You talk a lot about the rights and wrongs of the way clubs go about things, but no depth to it other than no clubs should be paying managers physios coaches S&C.... Unfortunately  that horse has bolted and trying to get that genie back in the bottle will be some ask going forward.

So with that in mind, what is your solution to the questions presented?

How do you fill a position within the club that no one wants?

Should people be out of pocket when taking a team? 

How do we encourage these coaches to step up to the plate and take the team?

Be interesting to hear how your club has done this over the years, without spending money and keeping management positions for clubmen/women only
MR2, please read posts before commenting so that you understand the posts raised.
Then answer the questions asked not the questions you would like to answer

I have never stated that clubs should not be paying managers physios coaches S&C....just managers especially when there are decent resources within each club.
You have asked the following:

So with that in mind, what is your solution to the questions   

How do you fill a position within the club that no one wants?
Coach and encourage as always

Should people be out of pocket when taking a team?
No

How do we encourage these coaches to step up to the plate and take the team?
Development plan like most clubs have for underage coaches and an honest commitment to support coach 100%

Be interesting to hear how your club has done this over the years, without spending money and keeping management positions for clubmen/women only
My club is a sinner also like many others and we have paid and no doubt will continue to pay in the short term.

I have only said that I am against paying managers and I object at every AGM and I am vocal at other  meetings with similar content.
I'm would not see myself as a suitable candidate for senior manager and doubt others would see me as a solution but I and others have rallied in behind other members as required over the years.


How do you fill a position within the club that no one wants?
Coach and encourage as always: When that doesn't happen, and there is no one putting their hand up, what's the best solution? This does happen

Should people be out of pocket when taking a team?
No: That's my view on it also, I'm not for paying managers a sum of money either, expenses yes...

How do we encourage these coaches to step up to the plate and take the team?
Development plan like most clubs have for underage coaches and an honest commitment to support coach 100%: Again back to the first question, the senior team can be too much for a underage coach to take on when stepping into a senior changing room, some people have it naturally, others struggle, and with all the support of others it may not turn out the best for the club.


As for my club we have an a huge depth of experience within the club to take hopefully produce managers of the future, have they taken on coaching badges at all? I'm not sure, I think all coaches need to go down that route and incorporate this into the style the club has always tried to play with.

In the past we have been lucky with past players as managers, Culbert, who started the revolution, and (may favourite) John Rafferty, then Lenny got us over the line.. We have had 'Others' that have been with us and been successful but home grown is best financially for the club, we wouldn't have a lot of money anyways, so I'm not entirely sure how it would be paid for...

But yes we would be guilty of 'paying' managers in the past and certainly encouraging coaches from outside, I still believe that's important, Its a different voice in the changing rooms and a different eye on styles of play.

As for not seeing yourself as a manager, don't short change yourself or your potential, fail to prepare, prepare to fail is the best advice anyone can take. Nothing is smooth but if you have a plan and more importantly the players buy into it, then you'll get the maximum out of them, sure that's all you can ask for.

Been offered a few manager roles in the past, would find it very strange to take a different team tbh.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Belfast GAA man

So Dunsilly, i think, wanted everone to stay quiet on the board about the gaelfast chief leaving and now the TOR chairperson has left too and no mentioned of replacements - still All happy to keep heads in sand and pretend all is rosy?