The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Tony Baloney]

Amazing season turnaround for Munster to be in the semi finals of whatever it is called now

Let's call it the Heineken Cup. Good performance alright.

[Newbridge Exile]

Good result from both Provinces, there can't be a better lineout operator about than Peter o'mahony at the minute, Carberry has serious potential as well for Leinster.

[seafoid]

There is such a huge difference to last year. Erasmus and having O'Mahony back seem to have worked. Cullen seems to have improved as well.

Irish Times from January last year

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/gerry-thornley-munster-travails-do-not-bode-well-for-national-side-1.2492973

According to the IRFU's High Performance Director, David Nucifora, the Irish provinces are not under-performing. In his pre-Christmas briefing at the Aviva Stadium, he maintained: "Let's look at the margins that they're losing these games by. No one's being blown off the park." Well, that is open to interpretation but right now it's a very small mercy.
The back-to-back losses suffered by Leinster and Munster against Toulon and Leicester in December were "a loss of form" which could be attributed to "fine margins", and Nucifora confidently maintained: "We've got the players there to be able to still win European competitions. I have no doubt about that."
Never before have the two one-time European big-hitters been evicted from the European Champions Cup with two full rounds of pool games before. Not even in the mid-90s did that ever happen. Between them, they have one win in eight – at home to Treviso.
Leinster were worst hit by the World Cup hangover, and had the toughest draw but have regrouped to top the league. They still have the best squad in Ireland. Their conveyor belt of talent from the schools game and academy is still churning. They are a richer capital city club and had private backing to retain leading lights and develop their facilities in UCD.
Little or none of this applies to Munster. Hence, whatever about Leinster, in light of Saturday's demoralising 27-7 defeat to Stade Francais, one imagines the supporters of Munster would beg to differ with Nucifora and the IRFU.
Huge void
First and foremost, the playing squad is not as good as the relatively golden years of 2000 to 2008. On Saturday's evidence, nowhere near it. The departure of Paul O'Connell has left a huge void in leadership, which has been compounded by Peter O'Mahony being sidelined.
The work ethic of a stable pack, and outside of Peter Stringer and then Tomás O'Leary, a world-class, goal-kicking outhalf, were the foundations for Munster consistently being contenders in Europe. Indeed, those back-to-back semi-finals under Rob Penney do not look too shabby now. But the first was achieved with both O'Connell and Ronan O'Gara, the second with O'Connell.
Their tight five, and pack, are nothing of the 2006 and 2008 vintage, and they've as big a problem at 10. Ian Keatley steered them to the semis two seasons ago, but the poor fellow's confidence has become so brittle this season that each missed kick has increasingly undermined the team's confidence as well, which fell apart in the second-half on Saturday.
The loss of JJ Hanrahan haunts Munster and Anthony Foley. With a bit more love, time on the pitch and a quicker appreciation of his financial worth, he'd have stayed. This has been compounded by the neck injury which Tyler Bleyendaal suffered and Keatley's loss of form, but has typified mismanagement on and off the pitch. Now they could be about to lose another shining light in Simon Zebo.
You hear good noises out of the Munster camp about the coaching ticket, who could not be accused of not caring or working tirelessly to get it. But clearly the buck stops with Foley and the coaches.
The Munster Branch also stand indicted for their failure to ensure a long-term succession strategy, for short-term player fixes, for alienating fans through the detested Ticketmaster, for the failure to maximise the brand in the good days, for province's financial deficiencies, their failure to keep pace with the underage structure in the other provinces and the decline of their clubs. Okay, in this socio-economic factors and the IRFU have played a significant part.
The union, having taken the plaudits for the good days, also stand indicted for presiding over Munster's decline. They have also largely ignored the club game, compounding this by placing restrictions on player availability and invested instead in the provincial A sides. And this was always going to hurt Munster more than Leinster and Ulster, with their greater focus on the schools game.
According to Foley, Munster's better working relationship with the schools' game (where facilities and standards are behind their more monied counterparts in Leinster) is beginning to reap dividends. But that will take years to yield a dividend. In the interim, the IRFU should be doing everything in their power to help Munster.
Whether it was the financial terms or Stephen Moore's desire to continue playing for the Wallabies, the union should not have blocked that move. Niall Scannell would have learned from Moore, and so what if Moore retained international commitments à la Ruan Pienaar?
It would have ensured game time for Mike Sherry and Scannell, and most of all a World Cup final captain with more than 100 Tests would have provided leadership and a hard edge in the tight five, attributes lost with O'Connell. For starters, maybe that costly seven-pointer off a lost defensive lineout at home to Leicester might never have happened.
Losing to 14 men can happen. On the verge of their pomp, Munster did it against Leinster in the inaugural Celtic League final of 2001. The red card galvanised Stade and unhinged Munster. The loss of BJ Botha, Tommy O'Donnell and Andrew Conway merely exposed a shallow bench. But it was the degree to which Munster were unhinged that was alarming.
Basket case
This week will show us what their core fan base is and will reveal the response of the players. But Munster are Irish rugby's biggest basket case. Have been for years. Saturday merely crystallised this.
And the ripple effects will go further. It was hard-edged Munster dogs of war who backboned the golden years. Conceivably, the Ireland pack which takes the pitch in the Six Nations will not feature one Munster forward. Whatever about the short term, in the long term you cannot have a strong Ireland without a strong Munster. gthornley@irishtimes.com

[Owen Brannigan]

Didn't mention that Leinster have been saved from oblivion under Cullen by negotiating the arrival of Stuart Lancaster to bring some degree of coaching experience to the club.  No doubt that Cullen is not up to the job on his own and it was nostalgia that put him in the line of fire with the appointment of 'one of our own' before having to look around to see where the situation could be rescued.  Fair play to IRFU to recognise that Lancaster had plenty to offer after his disastrous time with England when he appeared to be out of his depth and under the influence of Farrell and Rowntree.  Could it have been Farrell who recommended Lancaster to his new employers at the IRFU?

[seafoid]

The Sunday Torygraph suggested Carbery might make the Lions team.

[Helix]

The Sunday Torygraph suggested Carbery might make the Lions team.

Decent game yesterday but can't see it. Unless leinster end up winning the cup outright can't see it! Sean O'Brien was immense yesterday.

[Owen Brannigan]

The Sunday Torygraph suggested Carbery might make the Lions team.

Probably right for 2021.

[seafoid]

Croke Park and the rugby World Cup
https://twitter.com/Inphosports/status/844246831232106496

[seafoid]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/04/03/champions-cup-team-weekend-makes-xv/

[AhNowRef]

Peter O'Mahony is incredible .. Dont ever remember seeing anyone as good in the lineout .. unreal.

[magpie seanie]

From an Irish point of view I hope Carbery doesn't get picked to go with the Lions but he's definitely good enough in my view. Think the Kiwis would love a shot at him. Also, don't understand talk of POM not getting picked. He's awesome. Not a fan of the Lions so the fewer Irish guys picked the better in my view.

[Declan]

Interesting


Ronan O'Gara is set to join former teammates Girvan Dempsey and Felix Jones as part of an extended coaching team on Ireland's summer tour to the US and Japan.

All three are likely to be included at different stages on the three-Tests trip as an opportunity to further develop the crop of home-grown coaches in the Irish professional game. While Dempsey and Jones are already tied in to Leinster and Munster respectively, this would be O'Gara's first involvement as a coach in an Irish context since retiring as a player in 2013. A few months after that decision he moved straight into professional coaching as an assistant with Racing 92, the current Top 14 champions.

O'Gara signed a contract extension last year keeping him in Paris until 2019, but it's understood his long term plans would be to get into the coaching set up back in Ireland, ideally with Munster. Given the uncertainty around the future of Rassie Erasmus with the province, it is significant for O'Gara to get an involvement in the Irish set-up.

While Ireland defence coach Andy Farrell will be tied up with the Lions tour to New Zealand, it's understood none of the three additions will be asked to fill that gap. Rather, their input will be on skills coaching. Moreover it's likely each will spend a week with the squad rather than having all three there at the same time.

Jones, the attack skills coach under Erasmus, retired through injury in 2015 and joined the provincial coaching staff six months later. Dempsey, Leinster's backs coach, wrapped up his playing career in 2010 and became an elite player development officer with Leinster shortly after that.

[Walter Cronc]

From an Irish point of view I hope Carbery doesn't get picked to go with the Lions but he's definitely good enough in my view. Think the Kiwis would love a shot at him. Also, don't understand talk of POM not getting picked. He's awesome. Not a fan of the Lions so the fewer Irish guys picked the better in my view.

I'd be with you here Seanie. Don't want to see Carbery or even Ringrose at the Lions from a purely selfish point of view. NZ is an unforgiving tour and injuries will be rife. I'm more excited about the US and Japan tours.

[Tony Baloney]

Hartley to miss out on Lions selection   

[magpie seanie]

He's not good enough but he'll probably be over there at some point.....this tour is going to be carnage. Hoping there are very few Irish on it but it seems 12 is the number being quoted. Donnacha Ryan is probably finished at international level so no problem with him going but I think this whole Lions thing is madness.

Warburton captain again from pictures on Twitter this morning.