When will your club start collective training sessions for the 2014 season ?

[neilthemac]

slow twitch fibres in the muscles are developed with long, slow stamina runs
fast twitch fibres developed with power and speed

if you want to get slower, go ahead and run distances long distances!

I'd counter that by saying that to develop more fast twitch fibres that you go on a long run and at the end of it increase the speed which will develop these fast twitch fibres. But again I'd not take any footballer for a 15 mile run which many seem to be thinking "running" constitutes.

er, no.
all speed and power work is usually done at the start of a training session when the muscle and nervous system has not been fatigued.

[Zulu]

Correct, but the idea that you'll change a players fibre type significantly through a few months of training is wrong. There's more than one way to skin a cat and this is especially true for sports like football/hurling as they have a range of demands so you need to try and cater for them all. Running in the early part of the season is a legitimate method of training and will not make you slower or more likely to injure.

[Milltown Row2]

We've some fitness Guru's on here!!!

Some players are built for speed others run at same speed throughout the match and then you've the ones never blessed with pace but could knock the ball over the bar from any angle, with 15 players plus subs you will have a wide range of athletes (I'll use that word loosely)

Very difficult to change a players ability to be quicker by much more than 5-10% but you can make them fitter. We'd lads that never really did preseason but were the fittest and quickest in the team ffs. Collective training needs to be looked at as certain players need different drills to improve areas they are weak in and better the areas that they are good at. Just my opinion on it and not FACT (why some people capitallize the word FACT I will never know)

[Zulu]

Good point. Lads do have different requirements but it can be difficult to cater for all these in a genuine way due to limited expertise, time, player motivation, coach numbers etc.

[INDIANA]

That's because it doesn't slow you down BC1. The lads who are saying this are classic cases of knowing a bit but not a lot about the subject.

How would you know how much education I have on the subject. I wouldn't go making any assumptions on what you think some people know.

Afl is a completely different game. It's played on a bigger pitch for starters and it's also played over a longer time period. There is an awful lot of rubbish in this country peddled about how Afl teams train.

The best ones use max weights sessions , interspersed with boxing sessions and full sprint ball drills wire to wire in the height of the sunshine as there pre season basis work.The longer runs similar to Gaa are only done to give some form of a cardiovascular base early on in pre-season . They are not used over a long period of time in pre season and if they are done they are completed on the clock which for field games is the only way long distance running should be used.

There is a huge debate currently in AFL circles as to the merit of long distance running as a fundamental training tool for the game. A lot of the S&C coaches over there are moving away from it and it's the semi pro ranks were quite often lads are flogged on 10-12 km runs.

[Zulu]

How would you know how much education I have on the subject. I wouldn't go making any assumptions on what you think some people know.

You said running would affect your speed so it's clear you don't completely understand the physiology of training as that is completely incorrect, especially when we are talking about 8 weeks of mid distance running that GAA players may do.

Gaelic football or hurling are not fundamentally different from Aussie Rules, they are all repeat sprint field based contact sports. While they don't have the exact same demands that would be true of all sports.

[CD]

I love the way these threads get away from the point! The tangents have fast twitch tangents!

Surely there's no harm whatsoever in teams getting together in Dec/Jan to do a bit of running together. Even if it doesn't have a massive boost in terms of fitness, it keeps lads out of the pub the odd night, gets them together which is good for bonding and moral and players feel like they are doing something that'll make pre season a bit easier.
Some lads will get a lot out of it, some won't.
Some will get a wee injury but that could happen as easily on the pitch or in the gym every bit as easily.
I certainly wouldn't recommend 10ks but a couple as a warm up, a few hills, tempos and sprints and then a couple of k back to base for a good stretch and cool down.

Meanwhile, lads aren't conning themselves that they're getting fit by sitting in the club gym looking at their pecs in a mirror and talking about protein shakes and the pitch is getting a rest for a couple of months.

[Bingo]

I love the way these threads get away from the point! The tangents have fast twitch tangents!

Surely there's no harm whatsoever in teams getting together in Dec/Jan to do a bit of running together. Even if it doesn't have a massive boost in terms of fitness, it keeps lads out of the pub the odd night, gets them together which is good for bonding and moral and players feel like they are doing something that'll make pre season a bit easier.
Some lads will get a lot out of it, some won't.
Some will get a wee injury but that could happen as easily on the pitch or in the gym every bit as easily.
I certainly wouldn't recommend 10ks but a couple as a warm up, a few hills, tempos and sprints and then a couple of k back to base for a good stretch and cool down.

Meanwhile, lads aren't conning themselves that they're getting fit by sitting in the club gym looking at their pecs in a mirror and talking about protein shakes and the pitch is getting a rest for a couple of months.

I like that post but the last bit in particular. We had no lad last year who has spent the last year injured, came back towards summer of 2012, played a bit but then spent winter in the Gym. He could hardly run this year, he was a very good sprinter and was fast but ten minutes later he was busted and was subbed off in most games and then wasn;'t started till he got some muscle off.

Listen, CD has it right and what we all probably talked about at start of the trend.

[INDIANA]

How would you know how much education I have on the subject. I wouldn't go making any assumptions on what you think some people know.

You said running would affect your speed so it's clear you don't completely understand the physiology of training as that is completely incorrect, especially when we are talking about 8 weeks of mid distance running that GAA players may do.

Gaelic football or hurling are not fundamentally different from Aussie Rules, they are all repeat sprint field based contact sports. While they don't have the exact same demands that would be true of all sports.

I'd worry  about your own understanding of physiology before you start worrying about mine. I'm quite comfortable in my understanding of it. I'm sure yourself and Mick O Dwyer can swap notes on your understanding of it.

[Zulu]

Nonsense and your comment about Micko only further highlights your lack of true understanding, don't lose the receipt for that weekend course you did as you might want to get your money back some day.

[AZOffaly]

Jaysus lads, it's near Christmas. Season of goodwill and all that.

This is just a minor difference of opinion and in my mind actually splitting hairs. I don't think either of you are proposing the Micko approach of laps followed by laps followed by more laps for a change, and then a game of ball. Indy says there's no place for distance running, and Zulu, you reckon it does no harm if it's used in a limited manner at the beginning of a season. This is hardly diametrically opposed views lads, or a reason to be insulting each others' bona fides as coaches.

[Zulu]

You're right AZ but if Indy knew what he was talking about he would have simply acknowledged that he's initial statement that running makes you slow was wrong or, at least, simplistic. Nobody is, as you say, advocating 15 mile runs and as I stated previously there many legitimate ways to go about your fitness training. Training is constantly evolving and some of what the top practitioners do now will in time be question I'm sure.

[neilthemac]

You're AZ but if Indy knew what he was talking about he would have simply acknowledged that he's initial statement that running makes you slow was wrong or, at least, simplistic. Nobody is, as you say, advocating 15 mile runs and as I stated previously there many legitimate ways to go about your fitness training. Training is constantly evolving and some of what the top practitioners do now will in time be question I'm sure.

there are far more productive ways to get lads in shape over the winter than out pounding the roads (cardio endurance)
here are some other aspects that could be looked at
Strength, Flexibility, Power, Speed, Co-ordination, Agility, Balance, Accuracy

[Zulu]

I'm not advocating it, all I'm saying is doing some 3-8k runs (on the road, pitches, a running track, treadmill etc.) is a legitimate form of fitness development and won't cause muscle fibre alterations or a decrease in speed as claimed here. You should also be doing weight training, flexibility work in your pre-season but focusing on cardio development is a sensible way to start your pre-season. Doing strength and cardio work together is detrimental to your strength work so using training blocks to focus on particular aspects of fitness is a sensible way of structuring your program.

All the things you mention have their place but they must be prioritised at different parts of the season and cardio endurance usually comes first.

[INDIANA]

I'm not advocating it, all I'm saying is doing some 3-8k runs (on the road, pitches, a running track, treadmill etc.) is a legitimate form of fitness development and won't cause muscle fibre alterations or a decrease in speed as claimed here. You should also be doing weight training, flexibility work in your pre-season but focusing on cardio development is a sensible way to start your pre-season. Doing strength and cardio work together is detrimental to your strength work so using training blocks to focus on particular aspects of fitness is a sensible way of structuring your program.

All the things you mention have their place but they must be prioritised at different parts of the season and cardio endurance usually comes first.

.

Long distance running at a steady train for a couple of months uninterrupted by interval training will reduce your speed.

All it gives you is an aerobic base to combat fatigue. Its of no benefit when a ball is placed 20 metres away.