This is a crazy decision and a mad interpretation of the rule about not allowing training weekends abroad after the league finishes - I didnt even know the rule existed!
Football ISN'T coming home
07 May 2013
The GAA has refused London permission to come to Ireland and play two SF challenges.
The Exiles wanted to play the two matches next weekend - against Wicklow on Saturday and Louth on Sunday - as part of preparations for their May 26th Connacht SFC opener against Sligo.
However, the GAA has refused to sanction the friendlies due to a technicality, even though all the arrangements were already in place for the trip.
Rule 12.6, which was introduced to stop county teams from going abroad to warm-weather training camps in the build-up to the championship, forbids intercounty panels from participating in "training weekends, or training of longer duration, after the end of their respective national leagues, except during the 13 days prior to a senior championship game."
Ironically, this rule is now being used to block London from coming home to play.
"It is not like we are going abroad or anything," London manager Paul Coggins states in The Irish Independent.
"We are actually going 'home' and only because that is the only way we can get the sort of quality of competition that we need so badly to prepare for the Connacht championship."
Daftest shite I've ever heard.
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 07, 2013, 02:55:56 PM
This is a crazy decision and a mad interpretation of the rule about not allowing training weekends abroad after the league finishes - I didnt even know the rule existed!
Football ISN'T coming home
07 May 2013
The GAA has refused London permission to come to Ireland and play two SF challenges.
The Exiles wanted to play the two matches next weekend - against Wicklow on Saturday and Louth on Sunday - as part of preparations for their May 26th Connacht SFC opener against Sligo.
However, the GAA has refused to sanction the friendlies due to a technicality, even though all the arrangements were already in place for the trip.
Rule 12.6, which was introduced to stop county teams from going abroad to warm-weather training camps in the build-up to the championship, forbids intercounty panels from participating in "training weekends, or training of longer duration, after the end of their respective national leagues, except during the 13 days prior to a senior championship game."
Ironically, this rule is now being used to block London from coming home to play.
"It is not like we are going abroad or anything," London manager Paul Coggins states in The Irish Independent.
"We are actually going 'home' and only because that is the only way we can get the sort of quality of competition that we need so badly to prepare for the Connacht championship."
For championship reasons London is part of Connacht => their interpretation is wrong. If they are going to go by the same flawed logic [and before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion - going one side of the Irish border to the other is not going abroad] going by "TECHNICALITY" Cavan v Fermanagh challenge game could be as wrongly interpreted as going abroad (Again before someone shouts partitionist, I am NOT saying it is abroad)
Presumably it's only to the Republic of Ireland that they're banned from playing friendlies in?
They could play challenge games in Northern Ireland couldn't they and not necessarily against one of the 6 counties?
Louth were allowed to travel to the UK recently for a challenge game with Armagh.
Everyone now and again one of these stories come out and it brings disbelief and embarrassment to the game.
Not withstanding the rule itself but its application in this case is beyond the pale.
this is another example of why a 'nod and a wink' is the best form of Government
It has nothing to do with "foreign" travel.
"training weekends, or training of longer duration, after the end of their respective national leagues, except during the 13 days prior to a senior championship game."
It is because it is a training weekend (Saturday and Sunday)
Quote from: dec on May 07, 2013, 03:56:19 PM
It has nothing to do with "foreign" travel.
"training weekends, or training of longer duration, after the end of their respective national leagues, except during the 13 days prior to a senior championship game."
It is because it is a training weekend (Saturday and Sunday)
It's the only way they can get a challenge game! What do you suggest they do?
If Tyrone travelled to Galway and played them on a Saturday evening, stayed over night then played Sligo on the way home on Sunday, would that not be allowed? Or even just played Louth on the Saturday, went home and played Leitrim on the Sunday? Would that be allowed?
Quote from: BennyHarp on May 07, 2013, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: dec on May 07, 2013, 03:56:19 PM
It has nothing to do with "foreign" travel.
"training weekends, or training of longer duration, after the end of their respective national leagues, except during the 13 days prior to a senior championship game."
It is because it is a training weekend (Saturday and Sunday)
It's the only way they can get a challenge game! What do you suggest they do?
If Tyrone travelled to Galway and played them on a Saturday evening, stayed over night then played Sligo on the way home on Sunday, would that not be allowed? Or even just played Louth on the Saturday, went home and played Leitrim on the Sunday? Would that be allowed?
If the 12.6 quote is accurate then I think those examples would fall foul of it. I don't know if that is ever enforced.
Here is the wording from the version of the Official guide which is online. It is not labeled 12.6. I don't know if there is a more up to date version.
http://www.gaa.ie/content/documents/publications/official_guides/Official_Guide_2012_Part1.pdf
6.21 Inter-County Players Availability to Clubs
(a) The period of time during which Senior Inter-
County Players shall not be expected to fulfil Inter-
Club Championship Fixtures prior to Inter-County
Championship Games, in the same Code, shall be as
follows:
Senior Inter-County Championships:
(1) All-Ireland Finals - maximum 20 days.
(2) All other Games - maximum 13 days.
All other Grades of Championship, including All-
Ireland Minor and Under 21 Finals - maximum 7
days.
A County Bye Law may specify a lesser period in
each case.
(b)
Senior Inter-County Panels shall not be permitted
to go on Training Weekends, or training of longer
duration, after the Final of their respective National
League having been played, except during the 13
days period prior to a Senior Championship Game,
or during the 20 days prior to an All-Ireland Senior
Final.
Why should London be treated differently from anyone else? If they reckon abroad is different then let them not play in the All Ireland championship. New York and London are a cause of immense hassle to the championship and are no benefit whatsoever.
I'd imagine the rule was not meant to ensnare London in this manner, but once it's there they have to apply it or you'll have counties saying "if London can have a training weekend, why not us?"
QuoteI'd imagine the rule was not meant to ensnare London in this manner, but once it's there they have to apply it or you'll have counties saying "if London can have a training weekend, why not us?"
For instance it might suit Antrim hurlers to play a game against Clare, stay overnight and play Limerick.
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Why should London be treated differently from anyone else? If they reckon abroad is different then let them not play in the All Ireland championship. New York and London are a cause of immense hassle to the championship and are no benefit whatsoever.
Arrah, let's go the full hog and take out the passengers and just let the 26 counties play the championship. I'm sure we can convince Kilkenny to take the big ball up again.
Bejaysus, buck - perspective, please.
[
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2013, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Why should London be treated differently from anyone else? If they reckon abroad is different then let them not play in the All Ireland championship. New York and London are a cause of immense hassle to the championship and are no benefit whatsoever.
Arrah, let's go the full hog and take out the passengers and just let the 26 counties play the championship. I'm sure we can convince Kilkenny to take the big ball up again.
Bejaysus, buck - perspective, please.
Ah we are in a recession where allot of
our people are in the UK and USA. Many look forward to the visiting Mayo/Galway/Roscommon/Leitrim/Sligo teams each year. It's a connection for the Irish abroad. A chance for a good footballer who has emigrated to play in the Championship. A day out. Allot take pride in their new found habitat.
Quote from: Syferus on May 07, 2013, 04:45:29 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Why should London be treated differently from anyone else? If they reckon abroad is different then let them not play in the All Ireland championship. New York and London are a cause of immense hassle to the championship and are no benefit whatsoever.
Arrah, let's go the full hog and take out the passengers and just let the 26 counties play the championship. I'm sure we can convince Kilkenny to take the big ball up again.
Bejaysus, buck - perspective, please.
well said.
what manager in their right mind anyways would take their team on a training weekend 13 days before the championship??????
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2013, 04:29:38 PM
Why should London be treated differently from anyone else? If they reckon abroad is different then let them not play in the All Ireland championship. New York and London are a cause of immense hassle to the championship and are no benefit whatsoever.
What hassle are London exactly? Lets hope you don't find yourself away from home and looking to kick a bit of ball. The GAA has a responsibility to everyone playing the game, not just those in Ireland.
He referred to the hassle of them being in the Championship.
Nobody is stopping exiles playing football but do they really HAVE to be in the Championship and why poor Connacht?
However, seeing as London are still in it- not letting them play a few warm up challenge games is taking the letter of the law a biteen too far
Quote from: Rossfan on May 07, 2013, 08:17:52 PM
He referred to the hassle of them being in the Championship.
Nobody is stopping exiles playing football but do they really HAVE to be in the Championship and why poor Connacht?
However, seeing as London are still in it- not letting them play a few warm up challenge games is taking the letter of the law a biteen too far
That's nice that they won't stop exiles playing - how very decent! ;)
But, seriously, what is the hassle of London playing in the championship? The GAA is quite happy to spend thousands of pounds sending a team to Australia to play in a bastardised version of our game which adds nothing to the GAA, yet its a hassle to enable lads who put an immense amount of time and effort into the sport to compete in the championship - which is an hour on a plane away! With more and more players heading to London, a shock may not be too far away.
Is everyone getting the wrong end of the stick I wonder? (Or maybe its just me?)
If Dublin were organsing a training weekend this weekend to play say Cork on Saturday and Kerry on Sunday, it is my understanding that they would not be allowed to do so, because the league is finished and its more than 2 weeks until championship starts.
The purpose of this rule is that clubs come first in the intervening period. Thus Dublin for instance have a round of club championship games on over the next few days and it could mess everything up if the county manager wanted to arrange a training weekend.
So of course London should not be granted a special exemption from this rule.
I think possibly the initial article was misleading (whether deliberate or not?)
Why should London not be exempt from this rule Hound? Dublin could organise 10 challenge matches over the next 10 weekends if they wanted but London clearly could not due to the expense (among other reasons) so they must get as much out of a trip to Ireland as they can, thus the two games.
Quote from: Zulu on May 08, 2013, 12:46:20 PM
Why should London not be exempt from this rule Hound? Dublin could organise 10 challenge matches over the next 10 weekends if they wanted but London clearly could not due to the expense (among other reasons) so they must get as much out of a trip to Ireland as they can, thus the two games.
I agree Zulu. It's a ludicrous decision in this day and age. Is someone going to tell me that none of the Counties in Ireland aren't having a "Training Weekend" between the end of league and Championship. No way that's not happening!!!
Again and again we see this farcical ritual played out.
Start:
Propose a rule.
It goes through Congress without any consideration of unintended effects.
Said effects become obvious in a particular case.
A hue and cry erupts, with widespread calls for this rule not to applied in this case (generally known as the "common sense" solution).
The rule is applied anyway (rightly, of course – "common sense" is just shorthand for complete anarchy).
Obviously a rule is needed to nullify the now-obvious shortcomings of this rule.
Go to Start.
Is it in our DNA or something?
Quote from: Hardy on May 08, 2013, 04:06:47 PM
Again and again we see this farcical ritual played out.
Start:
Propose a rule.
It goes through Congress without any consideration of unintended effects.
Said effects become obvious in a particular case.
A hue and cry erupts, with widespread calls for this rule not to applied in this case (generally known as the "common sense" solution).
The rule is applied anyway (rightly, of course – "common sense" is just shorthand for complete anarchy).
Obviously a rule is needed to nullify the now-obvious shortcomings of this rule.
Go to Start.
Is it in our DNA or something?
+1. The farce over Division Four teams going into the Tommy Murphy Cup rather than the qualifiers was the classic example of this. Everyone voted for it, then were agin it when they saw what it meant.
Quote from: deiseach on May 08, 2013, 04:12:49 PM
Quote from: Hardy on May 08, 2013, 04:06:47 PM
Again and again we see this farcical ritual played out.
Start:
Propose a rule.
It goes through Congress without any consideration of unintended effects.
Said effects become obvious in a particular case.
A hue and cry erupts, with widespread calls for this rule not to applied in this case (generally known as the "common sense" solution).
The rule is applied anyway (rightly, of course – "common sense" is just shorthand for complete anarchy).
Obviously a rule is needed to nullify the now-obvious shortcomings of this rule.
Go to Start.
Is it in our DNA or something?
+1. The farce over Division Four teams going into the Tommy Murphy Cup rather than the qualifiers was the classic example of this. Everyone voted for it, then were agin it when they saw what it meant.
Ditto the current NHL scenario.
That happens with the hurley crowd nearly every year ::)
Lucky they squeeze into the 13 day rule, London missed out by 2 days as they wanted to play on the 11th and 12th.
Donegal head for training camp
10 May 2013
Donegal footballers will spend five days at a training camp in Co Meath, next week.
The All-Ireland champions are heading for the renowned Johnstown House Hotel next Tuesday and they will stay there till Saturday.
The squad will work intensely ahead of their Ulster SFC clash against Tyrone in Ballybofey on May 26th.
Training camps are an integral part of a county team's preparations for the championship with the likes of Kerry going to Portugal earlier in the year, while Mayo spent a few days in Belmullet.
That Hotel is in Co Kildare isn't it?
Enfield. Meath
I know Enfield is in Meath Rodney but that hotel is on the south of the Motorway and is as far as far as I know in Kildare - Johnstown Bridge.
Dinny or Donnelly's could confirm.
The rule is a good rule and I'm glad it is being adhered to. Clubs get screwed enough. However, I, ahem, know of a county who continuosly breaks this rule (last 3 years in a row for definite). They were away last weekend (within the country) and players couldn't line out for their clubs in the league. London's mistake was organising challenge matches (notification would have had to be sent in, ref organised etc) - no-one would have known about it to stop them otherwise. I can understand London wanting games but challenge matches are usually a waste of time anyway. It's probably more of a benefit to them what's happened (motivation) than if they actually went.
Johnstown House Hotel in Johnstown has been closed for over a year.
There is a functioning golf course but that's about it.
Are ye sure ye are not mixing it up with Carton House Hotel that has cyrobaths or whatever the feck you call them. Real Madrid hung out here a few years ago and it's a popular place for the rugby goys.
Johnstown house was the hotel mentioned on here, its in Meath, Carton house would be Kildare maybe that's what Rossfan was referring too
Is Mickey Harte involved in Carton House? Sure he'd hardly allow Donegal down there :D
My bad.
I was mixing it up with Palmerstown House Hotel in Johnstown Co. Kildare
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2013, 09:49:03 PM
I know Enfield is in Meath Rodney but that hotel is on the south of the Motorway and is as far as far as I know in Kildare - Johnstown Bridge.
Dinny or Donnelly's could confirm.
Johnstownbridge is on the Kildare side of the border with Enfield on the Meath side. Even though the hotel's address is Johnstownbridge, it is just inside the Meath border according to Google Maps - http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=johnstownbridge&hl=en&ll=53.404876,-6.844997&spn=0.014506,0.042272&hnear=Johnstown+Bridge,+County+Kildare&gl=ie&t=m&z=15 (http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=johnstownbridge&hl=en&ll=53.404876,-6.844997&spn=0.014506,0.042272&hnear=Johnstown+Bridge,+County+Kildare&gl=ie&t=m&z=15)
There is another Johnstown in Kildare on the M7 between Kill and Naas.
The Gaaarden Centre.