Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[armaghniac]

Casement park should been 25k, no point breaking the bank for 1/2 games a year. But the c**k up, once the maze fell through solely with the Ulster Council. A proper assessment always would showed a fire issue. From what I seen, the buying of 4 houses in the bottom corner on the QT, (If the house owner would sold,) would sorted the exit fire exit point.

I get it....but I'm not convinced it finishes there.
The Shinners convinced them they owned west Belfast and could easily get it done. Enter Caral from the New Lodge stage left....
There were those who went out to bat for them in the media and did untold damage in a very arrogant and/or aggressive manner (our current President can't shirk that either).
And there were those who blindly followed the GAA good - everything else bad ideology. That continues to this day when this discussion comes up.
If there was ever to be a review or investigation on how we ended up in this mess (how hasn't there been?) Ulster and Antrim GAA should be shouldering a massive part of the blame but those who propagated their madness for the last 15 years would want to take a redner too.

the GAA have applied the same insightful analysis to this process as the DUP have to supporting Brexit.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

You have supported them every step of the way.

[armaghniac]

You have supported them every step of the way.

Who, the GAA or the DUP?

[Norm-Peterson]

And that is Stormont's problem how?

I mean, the Dail can find €50m to fund Casement, why could that not have been diverted to Clones. You know, within its own jurisdiction...

Ulster finals include teams from all over Ulster, it is makes equal sense to Stormont to assist with Clones as it does for Dublin to help with Casement.

Except it doesn't make sense for Dublin to assist with Casement. 

And if I were a taxpayer in ROI, I'd be hopping mad at that, esp while Clones (and others) could do with every last cent.

I think the Irish government should be paying for Casement in its entirety as a gift to us for selling our forefathers down the river in 1921.

[Norm-Peterson]

And that is Stormont's problem how?

I mean, the Dail can find €50m to fund Casement, why could that not have been diverted to Clones. You know, within its own jurisdiction...

Ulster finals include teams from all over Ulster, it is makes equal sense to Stormont to assist with Clones as it does for Dublin to help with Casement.

Except it doesn't make sense for Dublin to assist with Casement. 

And if I were a taxpayer in ROI, I'd be hopping mad at that, esp while Clones (and others) could do with every last cent.

You wouldn't be hopping mad if you were an Irish nationalist living in the south.

There are Irish nationalists in the south? I'm not sure that warped 26 county version of Irish nationalism counts.

[Rossfan]

Large Scale sports infrastructure grants to be announced today.
Rumours of good news for Ros.
Edit -- €5.5m.😃
Sligo Rovers rumoured to be getting big pile too.
Hard to bate an election year

Further edit-- Down getting c€15m from some Peace fund for their Ballykinlar development.
Maybe Casement needs to contact the Shared Island fund.

[Evil Genius]

New announcement from Jarlath Burns on Casement:

"For the first time the GAA has said it would be 'happy' to consider contributing additional funds towards Casement Park, after it emerged the estimated cost of the project has fallen by about £30m.
BBC News NI understands that the new cost for the redevelopment of Casement Park has dropped to £270m.
It follows the decision by the GAA to slightly modify the stadium design after plans to host some games of the Euro 2028 football tournament in the stadium were dropped."
More here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0qd20vzp3vo

So the GAA will increase its own contribution of £15m by an unspecified amount (shall we say a generous doubling to £32m?) and is willing to make cuts of £30m on the project down to £270m.

Presumably this is in order to justify Stormont increasing its own original funding from £62m to £240m, minus Dublin's earlier proposed contribution of £42m (€50m) = £200m.

In other words, he still expects Stormont to stump up over 3 x times the original funding awarded, which itself raises two further questions:

1. The original funding of £62m to the GAA came from its share of the abandoned Maze Stadium funding. Rugby was to get £20m for Ravenhill, with the IFA also getting £62m, on the basis that the two codes were equally deserving and should be treated equally. Does this mean that Stormont now has to find an extra £178m-odd for soccer as well?

2. And if this redesign is pared back, how come it's still costing £270m? I mean, in Germany Karlsruher SC built a brand new 34.3k capacity soccer stadium for £130m (€155m), which only opened last year: 
https://stadiumdb.com/stadiums/ger/bbbank_wildpark
While SC Freiburg built its own new 34.7k soccer stadium, opened in 2021, for £64m (€76.5m):
https://stadiumdb.com/stadiums/ger/europa_park_stadion

I don't know whether those figures also included the cost of the land, but even assuming they didn't, construction costs in Germany cannot be any lower than in West Belfast!

Or might it be that Burns has leaked the new £270m figure because he/the GAA are too embarrassed to announce that it could actually be done for half, or even a third, of the estimate for their original vanity project?

[6th sam]

Good points as a starting framework, but need further context .


This whole fiasco is a microcosm of what's wrong with the North. Progress delayed by division.
There was an opportunity to have a marquee world leading stadium for all sports that was missed...that was not of the  GAA's making.

Construction costs have gone up considerably  since £62m proposed in 2011.

Since 2011 the GAA have incurred considerable costs  and lost revenue opportunities due to delays ( some of which they contributed to)

Neither Kingspan nor Windsor are equipped as the proposed regional marquee Mega concert and conferencing venue. To host major concerts like Croke Park or Aviva does , a large new design is necessary, and the GAA was envisaged to provide this in a new Casement Park .

Casement park's location in a woefully under resourced and under developed West Belfast , is also a factor as the proposed new stadium would attract new investment, jobs and opportunities for an area that suffered more than most due to the troubles and the 50 years of discrimination that preceded it.

What would I like to see:

A 28k partially end terraced compact , atmosphere generating venue for Ulster and all-Ireland championship matches , available also for big soccer , rugby and Nfl .
Include it as a concert and conferencing venue with infrastructure to match eg hotel ........ linking in with private sector for funding and enterprise .

A change of attitude from a small number of unionists who to date have been obstructive and gloating over Casements failure.
Even for unionists surely they can see , that Euros  was a missed opportunity but other opportunities will come around again and their beloved NI still can't host .

Imagine if there  was a venue here to host major world artists and major world sporting events .

The Irish government will stump up more , and so should the Stormont and Westminster to "level up" investment for NI and west Belfast in particular .

Your points re German stadiums are well made, surely there's more cost effective budget for this , and the £400m mentioned by some was a figure plucked out of the air to frighten off funders.


Let's get it built and actually have something for the whole community here to be proud of . For unionists surely they're envious of every major city in Britain having marquee venues and yet this supposed part of the same uk have nothing even remotely comparable .

[RadioGAAGAA]

2. And if this redesign is pared back, how come it's still costing £270m? I mean, in Germany Karlsruher SC built a brand new 34.3k capacity soccer stadium for £130m (€155m), which only opened last year: 
https://stadiumdb.com/stadiums/ger/bbbank_wildpark
While SC Freiburg built its own new 34.7k soccer stadium, opened in 2021, for £64m (€76.5m):
https://stadiumdb.com/stadiums/ger/europa_park_stadion

Completely agree.

Still the farcical gravy train meanders its way to f**k knows where.

Have they not done a review on similar stadia around the world?
If the local contractors don't know how to deliver the project at an acceptable cost, then perhaps the GAA need to give Karlsruher or Frieburg a ring.

[twohands!!!]

The overall vibes I got from that BBC article is that there still looks to be a massive shortfall in terms of actually paying for the current scaled down version of the stadium - the one with the (£270 million price tag)

What GAA have already committed - £15m
What Stormont have already committed - £62m
What Dublin/Irish government have already committed - £42m (€50m)
So a total of £119 million committed.

Assuming the £270 million price tag is accurate, that's a current shortfall of £151 million.

I don't think there is any chance there will be more money from the government in Dublin.
Their looks to be fairly minimal political will to get this done by Labour or the other side in Stormont. so I would say getting sufficient money out of London or Stormont even if the GAA does increase their contribution significantly would look to be a serious (if not close to impossible) challenge. I just can't see any possibility that the project will be completed without significant loans. My big worry about this project that I have had for so long still remains - Ulster GAA will get itself in massive financial difficulties finishing this project and will end-up repaying millions in interest for decades down the road which will absolutely cripple Ulster GAA for years to come. It looks so much like it will be a repeat of what happened in Cork but on a provincial scale as opposed to just one county.

[LC]

With them scaling the project back I imagine you are looking at a complete new planning application and all it will take will be one pissed off resident (who gets free legal aid no doubt) to object and then that circus will start again.

However until you know what budget you are working with you can't get a design substantially complete.

If it was your own house you would not put a planning application for a 4000 square foot house and double garage if you could only afford a 2 bed bungalow.

I would be surprised if there were diggers on site in the next 5 years.

[illdecide]

Do you know what you should do EG...close your eyes and visualise this stadium in Dundonald and used for something else other than GAA and see if it still tastes as bitter.

[general_lee]

Or might it be that Burns has leaked the new £270m figure because he/the GAA are too embarrassed to announce that it could actually be done for half, or even a third, of the estimate for their original vanity project?

Embarrassed? Why embarrassed?

You seem to constantly forget (so I'll remind you) that the "original vanity project" was a shared stadium which was shelved at the behest of the Are Wee Colony football supporters and reactionary Unionism.

[Rossfan]

Put in a pitch, build a stand on 1 side.
Take it from there....

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Do you know what you should do EG...close your eyes and visualise this stadium in Dundonald and used for something else other than GAA and see if it still tastes as bitter.

And if you were to do the same...........?