Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Milltown Row2]

may well be a silly question at this stage - but is it not possible to salvage the existing stand at this stage? a full revamp of it?

Obviously all of the old terracing has been already removed for the preparation works etc but surely it would make some sense to revamp existing stand if at all possible, put another stand on the far side and have terracing as was previous at both ends>

I don't think so, problems with the old stand were one reason for closing it in the first place.
They can build a new stand, the only issue is its capacity and how sophisticated it is. Modern thinking favours refreshment facilities etc and not just a big shed.

I wonder what problems there could have been with the stand that caused them to close the entire ground but still allow a social club to operate on the ground floor of said stand to this very day.......

People would believe anything.

The stand was shite near the end to be fair, parts of it at the side were blocked off from sitting at, not sure what the costs would have been to repair the stand and use it, or just close it altogether but use the rest of the stadium and pitch for games

And they needed to close the entire ground because of this?

Nope, as I said, they could have repaired it, closed it or used the rest of the ground and pitch to be used up to now!

Bonkers that it was allowed to close, and no doubt in hindsight they would have not done that again, but they thought we'd be saving a few bob on insurance and it was a done deal.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Also, a lot of the capacity arguments over the years centred on Casement needing to be at least the same capacity as Clones in order to host Ulster finals.

In 2019, Clones' capacity dropped by 7,500 to 29,000? Just like that....

Why was that?

How would a 25,000 bells & whistles stadium look now? Because they wouldn't have had a problem getting that over the line more than 10 years ago.

There is one "elephant in the room" which has been totally overlooked in all this current debate, namely that of capacity/demand.

The GAA's own Event Management Plan which I quoted above forecasts that there would be precisely ONE sporting event per year which could be expected to fill the stadium to a 32-34k capacity, the Ulster Championship Final:
https://minutes.belfastcity.gov.uk/documents/s92471/APPENDIX%202d%20S76%20Annex%203%20Event%20Management%20Plan.pdf

How can such minimal use ever justify £100m+, esp when there is a (VAT-free) alternative at Clones, while Antrim GAA is somehow managing at Corrigan Park, with it's much smaller capacity?

If people were honest with themselves, they'd have to admit that the elephant is a pure white one.

+1

The money is for Casement so it has to be spent on it regardless of how much.
St Tiernachs pk clones is also a kip.  How much would need spent on it to make it anyway modern.
Then you have the traffic issues involved with it.

We've always been told this and just accepted it. Soccer were allocated the same money as GAA and didn't have such restrictions in place. They used some to redevelop Windsor and the rest for a sub regional stadium plan (or whatever its name is). Surely something similar was open to us?

[bannside]

Who in Gaaworld actually gave a fig about the Euros anyway?

I'd have total confidence in people like Brian McAvoy and Jarlath Burns to obtain optimum leverage from all funding avenues and set about delivering a fantastic GAA playing and spectating facility for future generations of Antrim Gaels.

Ulster GAA will require access to the stadium on certain dates for showcasing their major finals and Im sure there will be canteen and catering facilities, bars, meeting rooms for event launches  etc, but even if its only 50% of the original spec, it will still be a superb focal point of Antrim and Ulster GAA in Irelands second city.

Not the vanity project once perceived...but more than adequate for 99% of GAA playing and admin requirements.

[snoopdog]

Also, a lot of the capacity arguments over the years centred on Casement needing to be at least the same capacity as Clones in order to host Ulster finals.

In 2019, Clones' capacity dropped by 7,500 to 29,000? Just like that....

Why was that?

How would a 25,000 bells & whistles stadium look now? Because they wouldn't have had a problem getting that over the line more than 10 years ago.

There is one "elephant in the room" which has been totally overlooked in all this current debate, namely that of capacity/demand.

The GAA's own Event Management Plan which I quoted above forecasts that there would be precisely ONE sporting event per year which could be expected to fill the stadium to a 32-34k capacity, the Ulster Championship Final:
https://minutes.belfastcity.gov.uk/documents/s92471/APPENDIX%202d%20S76%20Annex%203%20Event%20Management%20Plan.pdf

How can such minimal use ever justify £100m+, esp when there is a (VAT-free) alternative at Clones, while Antrim GAA is somehow managing at Corrigan Park, with it's much smaller capacity?

If people were honest with themselves, they'd have to admit that the elephant is a pure white one.

+1

The money is for Casement so it has to be spent on it regardless of how much.
St Tiernachs pk clones is also a kip.  How much would need spent on it to make it anyway modern.
Then you have the traffic issues involved with it.

We've always been told this and just accepted it. Soccer were allocated the same money as GAA and didn't have such restrictions in place. They used some to redevelop Windsor and the rest for a sub regional stadium plan (or whatever its name is). Surely something similar was open to us?

Also, a lot of the capacity arguments over the years centred on Casement needing to be at least the same capacity as Clones in order to host Ulster finals.

In 2019, Clones' capacity dropped by 7,500 to 29,000? Just like that....

Why was that?

How would a 25,000 bells & whistles stadium look now? Because they wouldn't have had a problem getting that over the line more than 10 years ago.

There is one "elephant in the room" which has been totally overlooked in all this current debate, namely that of capacity/demand.

The GAA's own Event Management Plan which I quoted above forecasts that there would be precisely ONE sporting event per year which could be expected to fill the stadium to a 32-34k capacity, the Ulster Championship Final:
https://minutes.belfastcity.gov.uk/documents/s92471/APPENDIX%202d%20S76%20Annex%203%20Event%20Management%20Plan.pdf

How can such minimal use ever justify £100m+, esp when there is a (VAT-free) alternative at Clones, while Antrim GAA is somehow managing at Corrigan Park, with it's much smaller capacity?

If people were honest with themselves, they'd have to admit that the elephant is a pure white one.

+1

The money is for Casement so it has to be spent on it regardless of how much.
St Tiernachs pk clones is also a kip.  How much would need spent on it to make it anyway modern.
Then you have the traffic issues involved with it.

We've always been told this and just accepted it. Soccer were allocated the same money as GAA and didn't have such restrictions in place. They used some to redevelop Windsor and the rest for a sub regional stadium plan (or whatever its name is). Surely something similar was open to us?

As Clones is in the south, the British govt money can't be spent on it.
I'm not aware of.what soccer did with they're share but I know.theyre still looking for cash for regional development.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Yes, obviously I wasn't talking about Clones. Just the restrictions we believed we were under.

[marty34]

Soccer and rugby had already stands in place so they got money for the rest.

Casement was a fresh build so it should have got more money I think - not an equal amount.

As has been alluded to on here on multiple occasions, it's been a mess from Antrim, Ulster GAA and the GAA from the start.

A great example on NOT how to do things but we are where we are.

Could the EU give £50m or has that boat sailed? They must have some fund that could give for a project 'outwith' their remit?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Soccer and rugby had already stands in place so they got money for the rest.

Casement was a fresh build so it should have got more money I think - not an equal amount.

As has been alluded to on here on multiple occasions, it's been a mess from Antrim, Ulster GAA and the GAA from the start.

A great example on NOT how to do things but we are where we are.

Could the EU give £50m or has that boat sailed? They must have some fund that could give for a project 'outwith' their remit?

Where are you getting that from?

My understanding was that both soccer and GAA were allocated £62.5 million. GAA added £15 million of their own and went with one big project. Soccer, on the other hand, used some (maybe half?) of their funding on Windsor and the rest was to go to into the sub-regional stadia fund. This money was for some reason held back but I think there was movement on it eventually, perhaps recently.

Anyway, the point is I think it was the GAA's decision to spend all of the dough on one project rather than a stipulation by another body. Though this was not how it was ever communicated or understood.
Again, it's only my opinion but I don't see how or why the GAA would be restricted on the use of its funding when soccer seemingly wasn't.

[armaghniac]

Soccer and rugby had already stands in place so they got money for the rest.

Casement was a fresh build so it should have got more money I think - not an equal amount.

As has been alluded to on here on multiple occasions, it's been a mess from Antrim, Ulster GAA and the GAA from the start.

A great example on NOT how to do things but we are where we are.

Could the EU give £50m or has that boat sailed? They must have some fund that could give for a project 'outwith' their remit?

Why should the EU give money to a place not in the EU?
there is even a question over the Irish government money, why should they give a large amount to Antrim when they haven't give it to Meath, Kildare, Louth etc who all have projects?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Same question to the GAA. Or, indeed, Stormont.
Why are they giving money to Antrim and not the other counties?

You'll get the same answer. I'm sure you already know it.

[p3427977]

Same question to the GAA. Or, indeed, Stormont.
Why are they giving money to Antrim and not the other counties?

You'll get the same answer. I'm sure you already know it.

They aren't giving Antrim any money.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Correct answer.

[OakLeaf]

...set about delivering a fantastic GAA playing and spectating facility for future generations of Antrim Gaels.

Ulster GAA will require access to the stadium on certain dates for showcasing their major finals.

Didn't Antrim GAA transfer ownership of Casement to Ulster GAA?

[imtommygunn]

Yes and to this day I don't understand that. There will be permission required from ulster gaa for every training session, every match - everything.

[Rossfan]

Our €50m was to help towards building a Stadium fit for Euro soccer thingy.
However in the interests of neighbourliness we'll probably still pay it.
Louth, Meath abd Kildare might not agree though

[Evil Genius]

Also, a lot of the capacity arguments over the years centred on Casement needing to be at least the same capacity as Clones in order to host Ulster finals.

In 2019, Clones' capacity dropped by 7,500 to 29,000? Just like that....

Why was that?

How would a 25,000 bells & whistles stadium look now? Because they wouldn't have had a problem getting that over the line more than 10 years ago.

There is one "elephant in the room" which has been totally overlooked in all this current debate, namely that of capacity/demand.

The GAA's own Event Management Plan which I quoted above forecasts that there would be precisely ONE sporting event per year which could be expected to fill the stadium to a 32-34k capacity, the Ulster Championship Final:
https://minutes.belfastcity.gov.uk/documents/s92471/APPENDIX%202d%20S76%20Annex%203%20Event%20Management%20Plan.pdf

How can such minimal use ever justify £100m+, esp when there is a (VAT-free) alternative at Clones, while Antrim GAA is somehow managing at Corrigan Park, with it's much smaller capacity?

If people were honest with themselves, they'd have to admit that the elephant is a pure white one.

+1

The money is for Casement so it has to be spent on it regardless of how much.
St Tiernachs pk clones is also a kip.  How much would need spent on it to make it anyway modern.
Then you have the traffic issues involved with it.

"Regardless"?

The "money" as you term it, was £62m from Stormont, plus £15m from the GAA's own resources.

More to the point, Stormont determined that Soccer should also receive equal funding (fairness, basically). And having used £26m of its £62m for Windsor, the IFA allocated the remaining £36m for Sub-Regional (i.e. secondary) stadia.

The problem was, however, that this £36m was not to be released until the three main stadia (Windsor, Casement and Ravenhill) were completed first. So that due to the GAA's own inability to get its house in order, Soccer has effectively been punished, since £36m goes nowhere nearly so far as it would have over a decade ago.

Despite which, some within the GAA feel that they somehow "deserve" a big increase in their original (fair) £62m in order to provide a new stadium which is far more than was ever needed and would effectively reward them for their own incompetence and vanity.

This is Alice in Wonderland stuff 

St Tiernachs pk clones is also a kip.  How much would need spent on it to make it anyway modern.
Then you have the traffic issues involved with it.

And that is Stormont's problem how?

I mean, the Dail can find €50m to fund Casement, why could that not have been diverted to Clones. You know, within its own jurisdiction...