Author Topic: The Many Faces of US Politics...  (Read 1912972 times)

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23415 on: September 22, 2022, 07:52:42 PM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

PadraicHenryPearse

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23416 on: September 22, 2022, 08:23:09 PM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23417 on: September 22, 2022, 08:31:40 PM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.


I just don’t  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 08:35:30 PM by whitey »

PadraicHenryPearse

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23418 on: September 22, 2022, 08:45:06 PM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don’t  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They’re essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn’t make any sense (to me)


Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Gmac

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23419 on: September 22, 2022, 09:06:37 PM »
It’s political, I know it and everyone else does too

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23420 on: September 22, 2022, 09:28:55 PM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don’t  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They’re essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn’t make any sense (to me)


Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution







PadraicHenryPearse

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23421 on: September 22, 2022, 09:56:34 PM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don’t  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They’re essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn’t make any sense (to me)


Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

Firstly if you are high profile and make enemies easily make sure you got your shit in order.  I dont think others need worry too much. If you are high profile and do drugs and are caught on camera for example you are more likely to face trouble with the law then if you are an average Joe soap due to more exposure etc.

secondly, if it isn't OK now, it wasnt OK tben, it just wasn't identified.


screenexile

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23422 on: September 23, 2022, 12:21:34 AM »
by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they’ve generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren’t the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don’t  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They’re essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn’t make any sense (to me)


Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

Watch The Big Short if you think that something like this can’t happen repeatedly over the course of a number of years with regulators and banks turning a blind eye to the practice… given the catastrophe we faced during the crash in the late 2000s none of this should come as anything resembling a surprise.

The banking system up until the point was a shambles and it wouldn’t be surprising if there aren’t some “legacy issues” around the big boyos like Trumper!!

Gabriel_Hurl

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23423 on: September 23, 2022, 03:12:18 AM »
Guys - I don't even support Donald Trump - ok?

Also guys - here's me vigorously defending him daily since 2015.

trueblue1234

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23424 on: September 23, 2022, 11:07:05 AM »
Guys - I don't even support Donald Trump - ok?

Also guys - here's me vigorously defending him daily since 2015.


But it’s the Dems who makes him do it! 
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

J70

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23425 on: September 23, 2022, 12:23:55 PM »
It’s not just one “agency” overseeing these banks

There’s layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

So why didn't they catch Madoff?

Someone else referenced the Big Short (whose author, if I recall correctly, you're a fan of) and how it detailed the regulatory and banking failures that led to the 2008 crisis. Why were there only one or two lone voices in the wilderness warning of what was to come even with all the supposed interlocking oversight?

I spent a few years in a regulatory enforcement agency myself. Given the available resources, it would take around 150 years for that agency to inspect all of the entities it enforces, and we're just talking setting foot in them, not taking a floor-to-ceiling look.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 12:31:36 PM by J70 »

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23426 on: September 23, 2022, 02:09:31 PM »
I’m under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people “were in on it”-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations? 

PadraicHenryPearse

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23427 on: September 23, 2022, 04:47:50 PM »
I’m under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people “were in on it”-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 04:57:50 PM by PadraicHenryPearse »

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23428 on: September 24, 2022, 09:21:52 PM »
I’m under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people “were in on it”-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?




Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #23429 on: September 24, 2022, 10:36:53 PM »
Dems now within 13 seats of keeping the House with 6 weeks to go to the election. 6 weeks ago they were 25 seats away. Still a long way to November 8th and more than enough time to close the gap to within the margin of polling error. If we do this, DC & Puerto Rico statehood and an expanded Supreme Court look a lot more doable. Expanded voting rights could deal another crippling blow to anti-democracy conservatives.  Legalized abortion could be codified at the federal level.

The overturning of Roe could go down in history as the moment when the MAGA white supremacists overplayed their hand and the checks and balances in the system came back to bite them. They've pushed that pendulum so far to the right that the swing-back is almost unavoidable at this point.