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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: delgany on July 03, 2019, 05:37:12 PM

Title: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: delgany on July 03, 2019, 05:37:12 PM
El President  thinks it would be an idea to scrap back passes to the goalkeeper !  If you are a goalkeeper, they dont want you anymore ....not part of the team.... when is this all going to stop!
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 03, 2019, 05:42:43 PM
Not quite sure how this might even slightly solve the problem of a team playing the ball monotonously around their half back line.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: APM on July 03, 2019, 05:49:24 PM
Last year in the McKenna Cup, because of the handpass rule, the ball was constantly being kicked back to the keeper.  The Armagh Monaghan match was nuts, with one ball after another kicked back to Beggan. 

I don't see that the ball going back to the keeper has been a major issue since then.  In fact, some of the crazy play of goalies can be very entertaining, particularly when they decide that their best role is to be a ball-playing CHB and end up losing the ball in possession. 



Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: priceyreilly on July 03, 2019, 06:11:10 PM
This president is right up there with the worst presidents we've ever had. We need to get through his tenure with the least damage possible done to our games. Then we must aim to recover from it.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: imtommygunn on July 03, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Trying to solve a problem which does not even exist.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Tubberman on July 03, 2019, 08:21:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Trying to solve a problem which does not even exist.

Exactly! That's such a minor issue if it's an issue at all.
John Horan is coming out with an initiative a week and hoping some of them will find favour with the public and deflect from the big issue.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 03, 2019, 08:48:36 PM
I'm surprised by the replies. When a team tries to play keep-ball near the end of a game then they have their keeper as an extra man (unless the other team moves theirs out to mark someone). This would aim to remove that option.

Compared to the forward only sideline ball I think it's ingenious.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 03, 2019, 08:54:30 PM
Quote from: priceyreilly on July 03, 2019, 06:11:10 PM
This president is right up there with the worst presidents we've ever had. We need to get through his tenure with the least damage possible done to our games. Then we must aim to recover from it.

100%. As Tubberman says it's deflecting from the real issue at hand. Is John Horan the GAA president or a mouthpiece for Dublin?
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Main Street on July 03, 2019, 08:59:26 PM
Quote from: delgany on July 03, 2019, 05:37:12 PM
El President  thinks it would be an idea to scrap back passes to the goalkeeper !  If you are a goalkeeper, they dont want you anymore ....not part of the team.... when is this all going to stop!
Is it okay if the goalie runs out a bit and receives a forward pass?   
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: SouthDublinBro on July 03, 2019, 09:26:12 PM
Quote from: APM on July 03, 2019, 05:49:24 PM
Last year in the McKenna Cup, because of the handpass rule, the ball was constantly being kicked back to the keeper.  The Armagh Monaghan match was nuts, with one ball after another kicked back to Beggan. 

I don't see that the ball going back to the keeper has been a major issue since then.  In fact, some of the crazy play of goalies can be very entertaining, particularly when they decide that their best role is to be a ball-playing CHB and end up losing the ball in possession.

Monaghan are (or were with Malachy) good at exploiting the rules to the fullest. They beat Dublin in the league because they turned the whole game into an aussie rules match.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: theticklemister on July 04, 2019, 06:03:56 PM
What the f**k is Donal Og Cusack doing comparing not passing to goalkeepers to British colonial rule??
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Itchy on July 04, 2019, 06:44:30 PM
I think it's worth a go, will incentivise teams to push up man for man on kick outs.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: BennyCake on July 04, 2019, 07:03:03 PM
Will keeper be able to use his feet though? Just not handle it?
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 07:18:48 PM
It's an absolute bullshit concept that won't last a month.

I'd expect they will also have to rewrite the rule book to clearly define the role of the goalkeeper and demand that every team must have one in place at all times. As far as I can see it as currently an assumption rather than a rule that you must have one.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: rodney trotter on July 04, 2019, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on July 03, 2019, 08:21:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Trying to solve a problem which does not even exist.

Exactly! That's such a minor issue if it's an issue at all.
John Horan is coming out with an initiative a week and hoping some of them will find favour with the public and deflect from the big issue.

It is becoming a issue, hence why it should be looked at before it becomes like soccer.  I've seen teams kick sideline balls back to the keeper about 30 yards back.. Safety first approach is boring.. Not many want to see that
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: lenny on July 04, 2019, 08:10:54 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on July 04, 2019, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on July 03, 2019, 08:21:28 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 03, 2019, 08:15:43 PM
Trying to solve a problem which does not even exist.

Exactly! That's such a minor issue if it's an issue at all.
John Horan is coming out with an initiative a week and hoping some of them will find favour with the public and deflect from the big issue.

It is becoming a issue, hence why it should be looked at before it becomes like soccer.  I've seen teams kick sideline balls back to the keeper about 30 yards back.. Safety first approach is boring.. Not many want to see that

Totally agree. The back pass rule in soccer transformed the game. I feel sorry for the keepers who are really getting involved in the game and having great craic but this is probably a rule which could be trialled to see if it has an overall positive impact.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: blewuporstuffed on July 04, 2019, 10:23:48 PM
Sorry lads, i think its complete nonsense. Its a rule change to solve an issue that isnt really an issue at all.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Jayop on July 04, 2019, 10:33:57 PM
If they make it narrow and have it that they can't get a ball back immediately after they've kicked it out and can't receive a back pass from a sideline or free then I'm OK with it. Anything more and it's a joke.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 09:51:13 AM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2019, 08:15:57 AM
From what I've seen, it is very rare for the goalkeeper to be involved in keep ball. It usually happens between the 21 & 45 and the only roaring I do at it is at the team who don't make any effort to break from their comfort blanket to actually go out the field and win the ball back. These teams who are losing the game and still keep everyone back deserve absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. There are those who believe that it is up to the team in possession to bring the ball to them. That is beyond me.
Either way, taking the goalkeepers out of it is bullshit and will not stifle keep ball one iota.
I agree with your outlook on the other team needing to press up, but I seemed to be in the minority on that.

The goalkeeper mightn't actually have been involved in these scenarios that often but he's the safeguard at the back of the process who might actually deter a team from pressing up.

I'm not all out for this rule as I'm much more in the camp of let the game evolve, but compared to what we've been looking at with the sideline ball and handpass I think it's worth a look.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: highorlow on July 05, 2019, 09:59:35 AM
John Horan reminds me of Phil Hogan
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Keyser soze on July 05, 2019, 10:02:06 AM
John Horan is full of shit. And appears to be a really arrogant man as well.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: five points on July 05, 2019, 10:53:16 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on July 05, 2019, 10:02:06 AM
John Horan is full of shit. And appears to be a really arrogant man as well.

I've met him in person and he's anything but arrogant, in fact nice to the point of disarming.

Given his role in heading the Leinster Council at a time when it wouldn't even hand Dublin an away game in the Leinster football championship, he always struck me as an unsuitable choice for GAA President but I can see why county delegates voted in droves for him.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Rossfan on July 05, 2019, 11:17:14 AM
Unfortunately he seems to be still acting as Dublin delegate instead of National President.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Tyrdub on July 05, 2019, 01:32:49 PM
Quote from: theticklemister on July 04, 2019, 06:03:56 PM
What the f**k is Donal Og Cusack doing comparing not passing to goalkeepers to British colonial rule??

can you put up his quote please?
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you don't understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What you're advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

—-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

I'd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you don't understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What you're advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

—-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

I'd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Jesus thewobbler you're usually sensible but that's one of the worst piles of shite I've read outside the usual looney posters.

Did I say goalkeepers don't take the central position? No, I didn't. I said if the rule came in then it might be in their interest, for example, to have the keeper go for the ball as he wouldn't be able to receive a subsequent pass. This was my initial reaction to your one specific hypothetical scenario. If a rule change comes then teams and players generally have to adjust. What's with this bullshit about having never watched a game? One of the go to phrases for someone up their own arse when giving their opinion. You have a masters in studying the game. Do you go down on one knee, chin in hand as you break it all down for us ::)

Secondly, I'm advocating nothing. I found it strange that the reaction on the board is overwhelmingly negative to a suggestion to eliminate something that was one of the curses of the game last summer, or so we were told.

And the 'keeper would have no purpose for his team; bizarre comment again. High balls into the square, saving shots on goal, kick-outs, playing the ball out from his hands. He can even come up and take frees. Who is that doesn't watch games did you say?

And finally, I'm dangerously thoughtless. What in the f**k does that mean, even if I was advocating it, which I'm not, and if I was, who mentioned a blanket or any degree to which the back-pass would be outlawed? Nobody, because it was just something to look at.

I hope you'll take back most of what you've posted cos.........well it's brutal.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: johnnycool on July 05, 2019, 02:41:22 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 08:06:51 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 04, 2019, 10:45:55 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.

Okay, we are deep in injury time and Mayo are protecting a one point lead. Dean Rock has a 55m kick and it drops just short and right. Colm Barrett is underneath it and takes a clean catch. He's immediately set upon by both Mannion and Costello. There's no options to his left, why would there be? He can't dodge them both.  If he holds onto the ball, it's overcarrying and a tap over free for Dublin to equalise. Inside him on the right is David Clarke, an outlet. His options are now, 1. throw it over the end line for a 45 in front of the posts, which makes him look like a ****, for Dean Rock doesn't miss those, 2. give it to Clarke anyway and let him share the blame - except what if Clarke freezes and refuses the ball, and there's danger everywhere, it could result in a goal - oh and what if because Clarke is in the small square, it might be deemed a penalty (tbc).

This is a f**king mess for Barrett, and all because he was doing the most natural thing in the world of stopping Rock's miscued free from dropping direct into the net.


Think about this folks. This is a f**king mess. It's the stupidest f**king rule change ever considered by the Association.
If you're defending a scoreable free deep in injury time surely you'll have a couple of men back on the line/in the box. Otherwise boot the ball out for a 45. That's like saying a player is being tackled by five lads and he can't quite manage to get a legit hand pass so he should do what's most natural and throw the ball or put the head down and charge out.

The rule would be brought in to try to restrict keep ball, something that everyone (up to now) has been roaring about so how would it be anywhere near the stupidest rule ever brought in? It's not even the worst this year,

Quote from: hardstation on July 04, 2019, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 04, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
Anyone against looking at this actually able to say why they feel that way?

Criticising Horan generally or saying there are other issues doesn't count.
Yes, I believe I can.
It quite simply has never presented itself as an issue that reflects negatively on the game, therefore the rule change is entirely futile and unnecessary.


So you also haven't noticed, nor were you one of the many complaining about keep ball?

If you don't understand that the scenario (if not the context) above is a regular occurrence in football, then you must never watch the game. Every keeper takes the central goal position in these scenarios.

What you're advocating here means that - in this scenario - he has no purpose for his team, he is a passenger, and indeed, any attempt to appear otherwise would in fact prove beneficial to the  opposition.

He would be training 12 months a year so that in certain high pressure situations the best move he can make for his team is to temporarily step over the end line.

This is absolute f**king insanity.

—-

There may of course may be a suitable rule change where passing to the keeper in teneted situations is outlawed. But approaching this issue with any sense of a blanket ban, marks you out as a thoughtless, dangerously thoughtless, person.

I'd prefer John Haran was moved along quickly at this point.
Jesus thewobbler you're usually sensible but that's one of the worst piles of shite I've read outside the usual looney posters.

Did I say goalkeepers don't take the central position? No, I didn't. I said if the rule came in then it might be in their interest, for example, to have the keeper go for the ball as he wouldn't be able to receive a subsequent pass. This was my initial reaction to your one specific hypothetical scenario. If a rule change comes then teams and players generally have to adjust. What's with this bullshit about having never watched a game? One of the go to phrases for someone up their own arse when giving their opinion. You have a masters in studying the game. Do you go down on one knee, chin in hand as you break it all down for us ::)

Secondly, I'm advocating nothing. I found it strange that the reaction on the board is overwhelmingly negative to a suggestion to eliminate something that was one of the curses of the game last summer, or so we were told.

And the 'keeper would have no purpose for his team; bizarre comment again. High balls into the square, saving shots on goal, kick-outs, playing the ball out from his hands. He can even come up and take frees. Who is that doesn't watch games did you say?

And finally, I'm dangerously thoughtless. What in the f**k does that mean, even if I was advocating it, which I'm not, and if I was, who mentioned a blanket or any degree to which the back-pass would be outlawed? Nobody, because it was just something to look at.

I hope you'll take back most of what you've posted cos.........well it's brutal.

It depends on how you define the "curse on the game" though.

Is the curse the fact that teams kill time by playing the ball back and forth in their own half or the fact that getting back to defend is now so ingrained in some teams that they don't push out to put pressure on teams with the ball until they cross midfield, even teams that are behind on the scoreboard.

Which is it?
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 02:47:53 PM
I don't know johnnycool, I didn't say it.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: maccer on July 05, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
How about no pass back to you the goalkeeper inside the large square. Can't see any issue with goalkeepers coming out the field to become involved in play. It creates overlaps and some excitement in that the goals is open and you get the sense that one mistake could result in a goal as happened Graham Brody in the Div 3 final v Westmeath
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: five points on July 05, 2019, 03:18:26 PM
Quote from: maccer on July 05, 2019, 02:54:44 PM
How about no pass back to you the goalkeeper inside the large square. Can't see any issue with goalkeepers coming out the field to become involved in play. It creates overlaps and some excitement in that the goals is open and you get the sense that one mistake could result in a goal as happened Graham Brody in the Div 3 final v Westmeath

The large square meaning including the small square? Very hard on a team defending a goalmouth under pressure. The goalie is out of the game until an opposing forward plays the ball.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 03:40:38 PM
Esmeralda, of course a keeper would have purpose to his team - but only when the opposition have the ball. But should his own team have the ball, it would result in a tap over free (or perhaps a penalty) should a team mate knowingly or unknowingly bring him into play. Therefore he would be better off standing behind the end line; for at least if he unwittingly receives a pass, it will result in a 45, and not a tap over free.

Surely you can accept the practical reality of what I'm saying here?

——

Surely also you can agree that the scenario I previously described is a narrow version of a situation that unfolds many times in every match, whereby a fullback or corner back takes a clean fetch, and needs an immediate outlet in order to mitigate the chance of over carrying.

From the earliest days of Gaelic football, the keeper has been that outlet; an outlet that means the corner back's strong defensive play creates a reward for his team.

This is not and has never been a problem in Gaelic football.

But a blanket rule change makes it a panic button situation.

——

Soccer fullbacks when they're in trouble can still pass to their goalkeeper. That he cannot pick the ball up is an aside; he is still an active participant on the field.

This mooted rule change would not have that effect: it reduces the team in possession to a 14 man team.



Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 03:40:38 PM
Esmeralda, of course a keeper would have purpose to his team - but only when the opposition have the ball. But should his own team have the ball, it would result in a tap over free (or perhaps a penalty) should a team mate knowingly or unknowingly bring him into play. Therefore he would be better off standing behind the end line; for at least if he unwittingly receives a pass, it will result in a 45, and not a tap over free.

Surely you can accept the practical reality of what I'm saying here?

——

Surely also you can agree that the scenario I previously described is a narrow version of a situation that unfolds many times in every match, whereby a fullback or corner back takes a clean fetch, and needs an immediate outlet in order to mitigate the chance of over carrying.

From the earliest days of Gaelic football, the keeper has been that outlet; an outlet that means the corner back's strong defensive play creates a reward for his team.

This is not and has never been a problem in Gaelic football.

But a blanket rule change makes it a panic button situation.

——

Soccer fullbacks when they're in trouble can still pass to their goalkeeper. That he cannot pick the ball up is an aside; he is still an active participant on the field.

This mooted rule change would not have that effect: it reduces the team in possession to a 14 man team.
Like I said, kickouts and playing the ball when received from a shot dropped short are two examples of his purpose to the team. Obviously he would be of no use if his own team had the ball if the rule was brought in to cut off all backpasses. But that's not what you said.

On your second point, again of course I understood your point. I merely pointed out that in the situation you described, defending a last minute free, that you would have many other players back in and around the box, even as the rule stands now. I additionally pointed out that teams would adjust to the rule moreso and that it would hardly be that big of a step to pass it off to one of the other players. What's happened up to this point is irrelevant in the context of what the rule would bring and what changes it would require from defending teams.

I can't compare the soccer backpass rule to this one as this hasn't been proposed yet never mind discussed but again, I can obviously see the difference. As some others alluded to, the rule may be looked at in relation to the keeper being in a certain area of the field, perhaps ahead of the ball. Perhaps only being involved once before the opposition touch it, who knows. I think it's not worth discarding.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 06:22:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.

I don't think it would happen either HS. But you're talking about - for adult last line defenders - rewiring 2 decades of instinct. Given that's there would be absolutely no reason for a keeper to ever leave the small square when his team has possession, any time that instinct is followed, it's an immediate score for opposition.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 06:22:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.

I don't think it would happen either HS. But you're talking about - for adult last line defenders - rewiring 2 decades of instinct. Given that's there would be absolutely no reason for a keeper to ever leave the small square when his team has possession, any time that instinct is followed, it's an immediate score for opposition.
Other than when he catches the ball you mean?
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 07:14:43 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on July 05, 2019, 06:59:49 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 05, 2019, 06:22:04 PM
Quote from: hardstation on July 05, 2019, 04:23:14 PM
Wobbler, a goalkeeper leaving his net unattended to go and stand behind the endline when the ball is knocking about the goalmouth would be a very unwise move even if his own team have possession.

I don't think it would happen either HS. But you're talking about - for adult last line defenders - rewiring 2 decades of instinct. Given that's there would be absolutely no reason for a keeper to ever leave the small square when his team has possession, any time that instinct is followed, it's an immediate score for opposition.
Other than when he catches the ball you mean?

Okay yes. I suppose so. But as he won't have the option of a quick return pass, and every one of his opponents knows that, and he will need his fellow defenders to show quickly, I assume it'll usually be a quick release.
Title: Re: They'll soon do away with Goalkeepers completely!
Post by: westbound on July 09, 2019, 11:09:07 PM
If the suggestion was amended to Ban passes to the goalkeeper from outside the 14yard line. Any player in trouble inside the 14 can still use the keeper as an outlet.
But it stops players further out the field using the keeper as an easy option.
It also prevents short kick outs going to a defender and  then being returned to the keeper immediately!