The ulster rugby trial

[magpie seanie]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

[Milltown Row2]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

[AQMP]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

It's hard to keep track of all the texts and WhatsApps but didn't he make some comment about, "was upstairs last night, more flutes than on 12th July"? Or was that McIlroy??

[Syferus]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

He covered up the fûcking rapes. Let's just say if he spills the beans its good night and good riddance to your two favourite hobby horses.

[AQMP]

Juror sick, so jury sent home for the day.  A decision to be made later today about how to proceed.  Jury has been asked to sit next Saturday morning. 

[Milltown Row2]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

He covered up the fûcking rapes. Let's just say if he spills the beans its good night and good riddance to your two favourite hobby horses.

Jesus!! you really have lost the run of yourself, probably frothing at the mouth as i type! Nice term there, hobby horses! come away from the computer as its not good for your health and wellbeing

[general_lee]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

It's hard to keep track of all the texts and WhatsApps but didn't he make some comment about, "was upstairs last night, more flutes than on 12th July"? Or was that McIlroy??

According to joe.ie it was Harrison that said that. Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that he entered the room though?

[Asal Mor]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

See we can agree AM!  I said last week that to my untrained mind and having heard about 2% of the evidence the case against Harrison seems the strongest.  Perverting the course of justice and withholding info can carry a custodial sentence.  Given he wasn't directly involved in the alleged incidents and that the alleged victim had no complaints about his behaviour, he might be giving it serious thought if he's looking at a spell in Maghaberry?

He's the only sympathetic figure of the 4. He was caught in the middle of a horrible situation and morally I'd have no issue with his actions assuming he believed that it was a case of regret rather than rape. Impossible to see how he won't be found guilty as charged though.

[AQMP]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

It's hard to keep track of all the texts and WhatsApps but didn't he make some comment about, "was upstairs last night, more flutes than on 12th July"? Or was that McIlroy??

According to joe.ie it was Harrison that said that. Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere that he entered the room though?

I suppose this highlights the risks for Harrison giving evidence on his own behalf.  Where did he see the flutes, whose were they and what were they doing!?

[Taylor]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

There's also the possibility (not sure if it's big or little) that he tries to shop the others to save himself. I've had a hunch for a while that the prosecution may have been hoping for this.

Thats what i would have thought, but was he in the bedroom at anytime and did any of the witnesses mention seeing him in the room?

He covered up the fûcking rapes. Let's just say if he spills the beans its good night and good riddance to your two favourite hobby horses.

Jesus!! you really have lost the run of yourself, probably frothing at the mouth as i type! Nice term there, hobby horses! come away from the computer as its not good for your health and wellbeing

And with that the case is closed. They are guilty and he covered them up.

[David McKeown]

Whether they take the stand or not will be a matter for each of them individually with the advice of very experienced legal teams. Not taking the stand is now a far bigger risk than it used to be in terms of what inferences can and can not be drawn (and without knowing exactly what's been said and by whom in this trial I wouldn't be able to go through exactly what inferences can and can not be drawn.)
What I will say is that this trial is supposedly behind schedule with 2 weeks of evidence left. I would only imagine that to be the case if all defendants were expected to give evidence although it may well just be tactical to make it look like that is the plan.

As for Harrison I've yet to see the crucial piece of evidence as to how deleting messages amounts to perverting the course of justice unless he did it after he knew that they were or were likely to be evidence in the case. Again I assume evidence was lead on this but as yet I haven't seen it so I am very confused as to what precisely the case against him is.

As for McIlroy the evidence against him from what I have read is the evidence of the injured party. I don't foresee a scenario where he is acquitted and PJ is convicted. That would require the jury to effectively say we don't believe you about what happened with McIlroy but we do believe you about what happened with PJ.

As always I caveat this post with the usual provisio that I haven't seen all the evidence in the case.

[seafoid]

I think their best chance is to not take the stand. I'd be amazed if they did. Harrison might if he thinks he's goosed.

It would be strange if the top shaggers were not guilty and Harrison was done for covering up nothing

[AQMP]

@David McKeown, David, in your experience does deleting texts and similar amount to destroying evidence?

[Asal Mor]

I honestly believe that Jackson and Olding would be really foolish to take the stand. Once up there they leave themselves wide open to be caught out in cross examination. Also they would be crucified for their 'lad' behaviour and will come across as even bigger scumbags than they already are. It's one thing to type 'top shagger' but to be made say it....and the Prosecution would have them repeating those types of statements. Your decision making process is influenced mostly by what you hear.

People say how she has been consistent but it's easy for one person to have a straight story. All the defendants may have differing versions of the same set of facts but can all be telling the truth.  Her reaction the next day is unusual. Their reaction the next day is similar to that of many shit heads. I simply think that to get this above reasonable doubt there needs to be stronger independent evidence and that is not there in my opinion.

Conversely any good prosecution team can use them not taking the stand to savage them in the closing arguments. The reason they're in a no-win situation is because they're very likely guilty of a crime.

Asal Mor's open contempt for movements like MeToo that has exposed systematic levels of sexual assault in western society really highlight what sort of person he is.

While the #metoo movement was largely positive, it did see an abdication of personal responsibility from plenty of women(some of whom were leading lights in the movement), who made a conscious decision to further their careers and fatten their bank accounts in exchange for giving sexual favours to powerful men.
It's bullshit.

I have no issue with prostitutes, who do the same thing, but take personal responsibility for their decisions.

[general_lee]

@David McKeown, David, in your experience does deleting texts and similar amount to destroying evidence?

Did he delete them though? Or was his phone memory "wiped"?