Integrated Education: Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?

[Hardy]

Definitely, segregation is good. If the world has learned anything in the last few generations, this is it. Look how successful it was in South Africa, the Southern US states, etc. Ghettoisation is the lifeblood of functional communities. Look at Harlem, Tottenham, Soweto. It's definitely the way forward.

It's such a positive life influence to separate kids by some arbitrary determination of what differentiates them that we should really go for it and have separate schools for boys and girls, blacks and whites, ciotogs and normal people, Manchester United supporters and Liverpool supporters and so on. All of that would make some sense, as it would at last be based on different characteristics of the kids themselves rather than on which particular mediaeval mythology their parents subscribe to.

[Eamonnca1]

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

[Maguire01]

A Big Thumbs Down!

Any reasons why?

Integrated education will dilute our culture and its importance.  There will be no or little emphasis on our sports, language, dance, music etc, as there would be in an all catholic school.  Kids will be growing up playing hockey or badminton instead of GAA, and learning german instead of Irish.  A big NO for me!

You really think that if the education system was properly integrated that there'd be no GAA or Irish?

How many Integrated schools have gaelic football, hurling or camogie teams?

That's with the current system, where there's a half-hearted effort at integration, competing with the two established sectors. If the whole system was integrated then there's be just as many teams, if not more.

Maybe its half-hearted because people can see through this integrated education crap.  By any chance, were you educated in the North?

Yes. Why, is that relevant?

[Maguire01]

What is there to see through? Is there really something wrong with prods and Catholics being educated together?

In Primary and Secondary education, yes.

Why stop there? Extend it to third level, to the workplace... why bother mixing at all, eh? Sure it'll only dilute our culture.

[Maguire01]

How many Integrated schools are legally integrated, i.e. have at least 30% pupils from the local minority community?

How many have achieved the ideal of 40:40:10?

In N.Ireland many people live in areas with people of a similar religion and their children attend the local school which will usually cater for the people of the area.  This is a consequence of the nature of the N.Ireland's polarisation which was sharpened by 40 years of sectarian strife. 

After over twenty years of Integrated education less than 10% of all children attend Integrated schools despite the formation of such schools being a policy of the government through out this time.

How many Catholic schools prevent non-Catholic children from attending them?  None

How many state controlled schools prevent catholic children from attending them? None

Despite this, less than 5% of children attend schools considered outside their denomination and most of these are catholics attending non-denominational grammar schools?

Did schools cause the troubles and sectarian strife?  No.

Integration cannot be achieved until housing becomes integrated. In most towns, people live and socialise according to their religious denomination.

The point is that an integrated sector should not be competing with established segregated sectors. There should only be one sector. That should be the norm.

If we were designing the system from scratch now, would we have two separate school systems? If not, why should we be happy with that to continue now?

[seafoid]

Is catholic education in the wee 6 as poor as it is down South ?

This is from the irish economy site

1.   kevin denny Says:
August 18th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

I would encourage people to look at the LC economics paper & more importantly the marking scheme on the Examinations Commission website. I do this regularly despite the fits of apoplexy it tends to induce.
I find it hard to believe a well trained economist is responsible for the exam papers. Some of the solutions are dubious,
others wrong. The whole tenor of the paper is rather quaint.

1.   Aedin Doris Says:
August 18th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
@ Kevin Denny

I agree. I once had a substantial minority of students giving a weird answer to a question on an assignment, and copped it must have come from the LC. When I went looking online for the source, I found it in the previous year's marking scheme. It contained both incorrect and irrelevant stuff. I did write to the Exam Commission and they acknowledged my email but that was it.
Teaching first year Micro, I'm always struck by how students who've done the LC are _dying_ to talk about Giffen goods. Seeing as there is no clear evidence of one of these ever having existed, it seems a strange topic to emphasize.
I read somewhere that a revised LC Economics syllabus had been agreed but not implemented. I know that retraining/upskilling teachers is not a zero cost exercise, but it seems like a strange way of economizing to pay teachers to stand at the top of the class saying stuff that's wrong and/or unimportant.

[nifan]

I dont believe that school should have any role in religious identity - that is the job of the church, and if people want religious guidance they should go there.
Therefore i dont see why schools should be segregated by religion, or by "religious ethos" at all. I dont see any educational or social advantage of segregating people.

[Ulick]

How many Integrated schools are legally integrated, i.e. have at least 30% pupils from the local minority community?

How many have achieved the ideal of 40:40:10?

In N.Ireland many people live in areas with people of a similar religion and their children attend the local school which will usually cater for the people of the area.  This is a consequence of the nature of the N.Ireland's polarisation which was sharpened by 40 years of sectarian strife. 

After over twenty years of Integrated education less than 10% of all children attend Integrated schools despite the formation of such schools being a policy of the government through out this time.

How many Catholic schools prevent non-Catholic children from attending them?  None

How many state controlled schools prevent catholic children from attending them? None

Despite this, less than 5% of children attend schools considered outside their denomination and most of these are catholics attending non-denominational grammar schools?

Did schools cause the troubles and sectarian strife?  No.

Integration cannot be achieved until housing becomes integrated. In most towns, people live and socialise according to their religious denomination.

The point is that an integrated sector should not be competing with established segregated sectors. There should only be one sector. That should be the norm.

If we were designing the system from scratch now, would we have two separate school systems? If not, why should we be happy with that to continue now?

There is no such thing as a "segregated sector" there is choice between four setups. If parents and children choose to segregate then that is their choice.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Thumbs down, I've spoken to people who attended integrated schools here in Belfast and they said that there was bullying on religious grounds happening in the school on a regular basis, these schools would all tend to have a large majority from the protestant side and smaller numbers from the catholic side.

[dillinger]

all tend to have a large majority from the protestant side and smaller numbers from the catholic side.
[/quo

The one my son will attend this year, and my daughter attended has a policy of 50% catholic and 50% other. So allowing for other reglions or none, there would be more catholics there. My daughter has more catholic friends than protestants. Means nothing to me what religon her friends are but can you see that being the case without int. schools?

[Ulick]

So how would all you supporter of "integrated education" feel about a totally secular school with an Irish cultural ethos - would you also class that as segregationist?

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

all tend to have a large majority from the protestant side and smaller numbers from the catholic side.
[/quo

The one my son will attend this year, and my daughter attended has a policy of 50% catholic and 50% other. So allowing for other reglions or none, there would be more catholics there. My daughter has more catholic friends than protestants. Means nothing to me what religon her friends are but can you see that being the case without int. schools?

Depends where you live.

[Evil Genius]

So how would all you supporter of "integrated education" feel about a totally secular school with an Irish cultural ethos - would you also class that as segregationist?

I'd be all for it.

For one thing, it would ingrain in our children all those essential elements of Irish culture such as Drunkenness, Marching, Demonstrating, Rioting, Terrorism, Bigotry, "Loyal Orders" and Parochial (literally) Small-Mindedness.

And  it would be a great way keeping them away from Darkies, Muslims, English Literature, Contraception, Pasta (and other foreign foods) and all the other things which have left this country in the state it's in.

P.S. Would there be any of them Fenian Priests teaching in these schools? For you can say what you like about Buggery and the Stick, but it at least kept manners on the little feckers and I'm sure young Prod's could benefit from a good batin' to hammer the fear of God into them. (That's a Protestant God, obviously - I'm sure the syllabus could be managed to make that clear)

[Sandino]

Evil Genius, I follow your posts on the various threads with great interest. You do on many occasions generate good discussion and challenge members to question their own values and attitudes. You would no doubt give this as you reason for posting on, what is a forum for discussion mainly populated by supporters of the GAA.
However occasionally the mask slips and posts like that last one show exactly what type of person you are and the way you think. Don't bother replying to me as I will not respond again. Your history of posting shows that a response is what your trying to provoke.  It's a pity you post items like the last one as it undermines a lot of your other arguments.

[HiMucker]

Integrated schools would be great if there was no prods at them.