All Ireland Quarter Final;Roscommon v Mayo Sunday July 30th

[Ball Hopper]

Tyrone will have to prove they belong in the conversation the next day out.  Seeing as the best Kerry or Mayo can do against Dublin is a draw, what chances Tyrone and Dublin draw?

In fact, what odds both semifinals go to replays?

The best Mayo have done is a draw.

The best Kerry have done is lose.

And thus far Tyrone have failed to qualify for the latter stages and be part of the discussion.  New territory for Tyrone.  Who knows how they will handle it.

We know Kerry haven't had it against the Dubs.

We know Mayo have had it but shot themselves in the foot.

We don't know whether Tyrone have it or have not.

The known against the unknown.

The only team to topple Dublin under Gavin have been an Ulster side who played a defend in numbers, counter attacking game - similar to Tyrone.

Slightly different tune to saying "Tyrone are only really serious contenders since 2015."

Tyrone have the chance to prove they belong - and I think they will take it.

Does that mean they will beat Dublin - not necessarily...but they have the chance to become serious contenders in 2017.

You seem to be changing what a serious contender is. Tyrone are in the last 4 for the second time in 3 years. Results would suggest there is very little between Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone but Dublin are a step above the other 3.

Is there only one contender or is your logic flawed?

I submit that Tyrone 2017 is superior to Tyrone 2015.  Until they beat one of the other contenders (Mayo or Kerry) or put it up to Dublin (get within a score of them), then they are not yet contenders.  They can change all that on Aug 27. 

Or wait until 2018 if they lose by 10.  FWIW, I give them a great chance to not only run Dublin close, but to win.

Mayo haven't beaten one of the big contenders. They've drawn and lost to Kerry and Dublin.

Kerry have a AET victory in a replay over Mayo as their sole win. They've lost to Dublin by 7, 3 and 2 points respectively in 3 attempts.

Your logic is a bit flawed and it would point to there being only one contender.

Dublin are the top 1, there's not a lot to suggest there's much between Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo.

There's not a lot to suggest Tyrone belong there yet...losses to Mayo x 2 and to Kerry over the last 3 years is their record.

They can fix all that on Aug 27 and declare they belong as a contender at least.

But for the draw, how would Tyrone fare against either Mayo or Kerry in a semifinal this year?  I think Tyrone would be favourites against either.

There's not a lot to suggest Kerry or Mayo belong there using your logic either.

Mayo and Kerry have both had three attempts against Dublin under Jim Gavin now and won zero.

There's a big 1 and three others who could conceivably put it up to them.

You said Tyrone have been contenders since 2015.  They have not.

They can change that on Aug 27.

Mayo and Kerry have lost to Dublin at the latter stages of the championship by relatively small margins in Kerry's case and by the smallest possible in Mayo's case.  Consensus is Dublin are the big 1, with Mayo and Kerry the contenders. 

Teams beaten by Mayo and Kerry are therefore in the next level below.   For that to change, Mayo and Kerry must step up or step backward.  Since both are in the semifinal, the only way up is the winner beats Dublin. 

Or those below contender status must step up.  Tyrone have a chance to step up to contender status at least...and maybe make it a big 2 if they go all the way. 

That is all.

[Ball Hopper]

Seems to be an awful lot of arguing over the positions of the also rans

Correct, and I'm out.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Tyrone will have to prove they belong in the conversation the next day out.  Seeing as the best Kerry or Mayo can do against Dublin is a draw, what chances Tyrone and Dublin draw?

In fact, what odds both semifinals go to replays?

The best Mayo have done is a draw.

The best Kerry have done is lose.

And thus far Tyrone have failed to qualify for the latter stages and be part of the discussion.  New territory for Tyrone.  Who knows how they will handle it.

We know Kerry haven't had it against the Dubs.

We know Mayo have had it but shot themselves in the foot.

We don't know whether Tyrone have it or have not.

The known against the unknown.

The only team to topple Dublin under Gavin have been an Ulster side who played a defend in numbers, counter attacking game - similar to Tyrone.

Slightly different tune to saying "Tyrone are only really serious contenders since 2015."

Tyrone have the chance to prove they belong - and I think they will take it.

Does that mean they will beat Dublin - not necessarily...but they have the chance to become serious contenders in 2017.

You seem to be changing what a serious contender is. Tyrone are in the last 4 for the second time in 3 years. Results would suggest there is very little between Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone but Dublin are a step above the other 3.

Is there only one contender or is your logic flawed?

I submit that Tyrone 2017 is superior to Tyrone 2015.  Until they beat one of the other contenders (Mayo or Kerry) or put it up to Dublin (get within a score of them), then they are not yet contenders.  They can change all that on Aug 27. 

Or wait until 2018 if they lose by 10.  FWIW, I give them a great chance to not only run Dublin close, but to win.

Mayo haven't beaten one of the big contenders. They've drawn and lost to Kerry and Dublin.

Kerry have a AET victory in a replay over Mayo as their sole win. They've lost to Dublin by 7, 3 and 2 points respectively in 3 attempts.

Your logic is a bit flawed and it would point to there being only one contender.

Dublin are the top 1, there's not a lot to suggest there's much between Kerry, Tyrone and Mayo.

There's not a lot to suggest Tyrone belong there yet...losses to Mayo x 2 and to Kerry over the last 3 years is their record.

They can fix all that on Aug 27 and declare they belong as a contender at least.

But for the draw, how would Tyrone fare against either Mayo or Kerry in a semifinal this year?  I think Tyrone would be favourites against either.

There's not a lot to suggest Kerry or Mayo belong there using your logic either.

Mayo and Kerry have both had three attempts against Dublin under Jim Gavin now and won zero.

There's a big 1 and three others who could conceivably put it up to them.

You said Tyrone have been contenders since 2015.  They have not.

They can change that on Aug 27.

Mayo and Kerry have lost to Dublin at the latter stages of the championship by relatively small margins in Kerry's case and by the smallest possible in Mayo's case.  Consensus is Dublin are the big 1, with Mayo and Kerry the contenders. 

Teams beaten by Mayo and Kerry are therefore in the next level below.   For that to change, Mayo and Kerry must step up or step backward.  Since both are in the semifinal, the only way up is the winner beats Dublin. 

Or those below contender status must step up.  Tyrone have a chance to step up to contender status at least...and maybe make it a big 2 if they go all the way. 

That is all.

They have been as much contenders as Mayo and Kerry have in that time.

[seafoid]

Tyrone haven't got to a final, Bomber. It does mean something outside your head.

[MayoBuck]

Aiden O'Shea MOM baffles me. Thought he was useless.

Would have given it to Higgins myself but in no way was Aidan average. He set the tone at the start of the game.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Tyrone haven't got to a final, Bomber. It does mean something outside your head.

Introspection seems to be lost on you.

Anything to take your mind off the fact Galway football is dead and has the ignominy of being on a streak of 10 straight Championship defeats at Croke Park

[Il Bomber Destro]

Aiden O'Shea MOM baffles me. Thought he was useless.

Would have given it to Higgins myself but in no way was Aidan average. He set the tone at the start of the game.

He had a good game certainly but he'll get away with that against Roscommon. Carrying the ball into the tackle like that so often won't cut it against Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone.

[RedHand88]

Aiden O'Shea MOM baffles me. Thought he was useless.

Would have given it to Higgins myself but in no way was Aidan average. He set the tone at the start of the game.

He had a good game certainly but he'll get away with that against Roscommon. Carrying the ball into the tackle like that so often won't cut it against Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone.

He seems to actively seek out defenders to break through like a bull. Works against your weaker counties but god help him if he tries it against tyrone.

[Syferus]

Seems to be an awful lot of arguing over the positions of the also rans

That's the rub, Mac. As tough as today was to watch, if Mayo went on and beat Dublin and showed that all romance and intrigue hasn't been robbed from inter-county football it would be worth it. This sport is slowly dying at the top level.

We have a superpower and two teams that can give them a game of if conditions are right. This is a supposedly amateur sport, of course. Maybe Tyrone can give them a game too, but I have severe doubts. I'm not sure anyone can genuinely stop Dublin when they turn up, complacency is more their enemy than any county.

[macdanger2]

Aiden O'Shea MOM baffles me. Thought he was useless.

Would have given it to Higgins myself but in no way was Aidan average. He set the tone at the start of the game.

He had a good game certainly but he'll get away with that against Roscommon. Carrying the ball into the tackle like that so often won't cut it against Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone.

Wrong as it seems, I have to agree with you there

[ballinaman]

Tough going for Roscommon. We've been there in 04/06 on the end of serious clippings.

7th Semi final in a row for our lads, we might not see the like of it again with this team is dusht.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Aiden O'Shea MOM baffles me. Thought he was useless.

Would have given it to Higgins myself but in no way was Aidan average. He set the tone at the start of the game.

He had a good game certainly but he'll get away with that against Roscommon. Carrying the ball into the tackle like that so often won't cut it against Kerry, Dublin or Tyrone.

Wrong as it seems, I have to agree with you there

He's playing very well this year (apart from last week where he looked flat from the ET the week before) and Mayo would probably be out only for him. It's the big stuff now though and O'Shea will have to tailor his game accordingly, while he has certainly developed in certain aspects as a footballer since minor, he still seems to hold that minor mentality where he thinks he can do it all himself and steamroll through teams. It works against the lesser teams but it's part of the reason why he has so much questions about him in the bigger games.

Mayo looked a lot tighter at the back with no Cafferkey today but they'll need to make plans for Donaghy, he hasn't gone away and he's been the scourge of Mayo teams for decades.

[macdanger2]

B Moran is the man for Donaghy but probably not fit. I'd probably play him if he's any way ready

[dclane]

Tyrone haven't got to a final, Bomber. It does mean something outside your head.

Introspection seems to be lost on you.

Anything to take your mind off the fact Galway football is dead and has the ignominy of being on a streak of 10 straight Championship defeats at Croke Park

Sure he still has the hurling to look forward to which is a bigger prize.

[seafoid]

Tyrone haven't got to a final, Bomber. It does mean something outside your head.

Introspection seems to be lost on you.

Anything to take your mind off the fact Galway football is dead and has the ignominy of being on a streak of 10 straight Championship defeats at Croke Park

Sure haven't we got the hurlers to focus on now ?
Who cares about losing streaks. We'll have the makings of a good team again. Ni uasal agus iseal ach thuas seal agus thios seal
Many of us remember when ye didn't have an arse in your football trousers
Tyrone were so excited to make it to a semi in 95
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxeAr3n2Ous