2018 NFL Division 3

Started by LooseCannon, January 02, 2018, 10:17:47 PM

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Who'll win Division 3 of the NFL

Armagh
Derry
Fermanagh
Longford
Offaly
Sligo
Westmeath
Wexford

magpie seanie

Quote from: shark on April 05, 2018, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 05, 2018, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 04, 2018, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 04, 2018, 07:01:44 PMThey were very lucky against kildare but not sure on the rest. I think had kildare beat down they'd have won the ai but that is another story.
Always thought the same, Kildare had great momentum that year and might well have done it had the officials done their job right in the semi. Rarely has a team deserved an All Ireland less than that Cork team in 2010, it was handed to them.

They probably didn't deserve the AI based on the performances of that year but they had been consistently good in the previous 3 years (bar games played in CP against Kerry) - more "deserving" of an AI than either Kildare or Down imo
Maybe but the way Kildare were playing that year (albeit after being upended by Louth) I felt they were the better team that year, Cork had their usual loss to Kerry and got the handiest possible draw going almost every time after that, and a Dublin team in the semi that was undergoing serious carthasis after the Kerry and Meath drubbings before becoming the team they are now, but they still could have won but for McConnell late on giving away a penalty and later getting the line, and a Down team in the final that came almost out of nowhere and went back there almost as quickly. Always regarded them as a fine example of flat track bullies as leading football teams go, they'd flatten any disjointed shambles of a team no bother but even if an average team were well organised and put it up to them they struggled to get through.

Usual loss to Kerry hardly applied at that time, when referring to Munster championship which you are doing here. They beat Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009. That Cork team deserved their All-Ireland. 3 finals and 2 semi finals from 2006 to 2010. And in all that time they only lost to 1 team.

You only "deserve" something if you go and get it. They'd never have won a final against anyone else I feel and even at half time I thought Down had them. For all the ability on paper of that Cork team they really had a soft centre....there was always a flop in them on the big day.

shark

Quote from: magpie seanie on April 05, 2018, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: shark on April 05, 2018, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 05, 2018, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 04, 2018, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 04, 2018, 07:01:44 PMThey were very lucky against kildare but not sure on the rest. I think had kildare beat down they'd have won the ai but that is another story.
Always thought the same, Kildare had great momentum that year and might well have done it had the officials done their job right in the semi. Rarely has a team deserved an All Ireland less than that Cork team in 2010, it was handed to them.

They probably didn't deserve the AI based on the performances of that year but they had been consistently good in the previous 3 years (bar games played in CP against Kerry) - more "deserving" of an AI than either Kildare or Down imo
Maybe but the way Kildare were playing that year (albeit after being upended by Louth) I felt they were the better team that year, Cork had their usual loss to Kerry and got the handiest possible draw going almost every time after that, and a Dublin team in the semi that was undergoing serious carthasis after the Kerry and Meath drubbings before becoming the team they are now, but they still could have won but for McConnell late on giving away a penalty and later getting the line, and a Down team in the final that came almost out of nowhere and went back there almost as quickly. Always regarded them as a fine example of flat track bullies as leading football teams go, they'd flatten any disjointed shambles of a team no bother but even if an average team were well organised and put it up to them they struggled to get through.

Usual loss to Kerry hardly applied at that time, when referring to Munster championship which you are doing here. They beat Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009. That Cork team deserved their All-Ireland. 3 finals and 2 semi finals from 2006 to 2010. And in all that time they only lost to 1 team.

You only "deserve" something if you go and get it. They'd never have won a final against anyone else I feel and even at half time I thought Down had them. For all the ability on paper of that Cork team they really had a soft centre....there was always a flop in them on the big day.

And they did go and get it!

We will never know if they would have beaten anyone else. I have my doubts they would have beaten Kerry. But they were better than everyone else they faced for the 5 preceeding years. 

Owenmoresider

#632
Quote from: shark on April 05, 2018, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 05, 2018, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 04, 2018, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 04, 2018, 07:01:44 PMThey were very lucky against kildare but not sure on the rest. I think had kildare beat down they'd have won the ai but that is another story.
Always thought the same, Kildare had great momentum that year and might well have done it had the officials done their job right in the semi. Rarely has a team deserved an All Ireland less than that Cork team in 2010, it was handed to them.

They probably didn't deserve the AI based on the performances of that year but they had been consistently good in the previous 3 years (bar games played in CP against Kerry) - more "deserving" of an AI than either Kildare or Down imo
Maybe but the way Kildare were playing that year (albeit after being upended by Louth) I felt they were the better team that year, Cork had their usual loss to Kerry and got the handiest possible draw going almost every time after that, and a Dublin team in the semi that was undergoing serious carthasis after the Kerry and Meath drubbings before becoming the team they are now, but they still could have won but for McConnell late on giving away a penalty and later getting the line, and a Down team in the final that came almost out of nowhere and went back there almost as quickly. Always regarded them as a fine example of flat track bullies as leading football teams go, they'd flatten any disjointed shambles of a team no bother but even if an average team were well organised and put it up to them they struggled to get through.

Usual loss to Kerry hardly applied at that time, when referring to Munster championship which you are doing here. They beat Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009. That Cork team deserved their All-Ireland. 3 finals and 2 semi finals from 2006 to 2010. And in all that time they only lost to 1 team.
If we use the standard of "hardly applied" to 2010 then you can certainly use it to those years, for those wins were all in Munster and also all down in the Pairc (they still haven't beaten Kerry in Killarney since 1995), and what happened in each of those years when Kerry met them later on in Croke Park when it really did matter...

Also they might well have only lost to one team, but they didn't win too many games that they weren't already expected to. Bar those wins over Kerry (all in Munster and all in PuiC), Tyrone in 2009 was the biggest scalp they took, and tbf it was hard to argue with the merit of that one, there were other wins against Galway (05), Meath (07), Dublin (10), but they weren't exactly exceptional opponents at the time and Dublin were only evolving into the marauding force they have since become. We played them twice in that time, the first time we weren't really up to much, but were getting on top of them in the second half and were only 2 points behind until conceding a soft goal that killed us, and the second time our entire team completely froze, and yet Cork still only won by six points. A good team but far from a great one.

shark

Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 03:48:52 PM
Quote from: shark on April 05, 2018, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 05, 2018, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 04, 2018, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 04, 2018, 07:01:44 PMThey were very lucky against kildare but not sure on the rest. I think had kildare beat down they'd have won the ai but that is another story.
Always thought the same, Kildare had great momentum that year and might well have done it had the officials done their job right in the semi. Rarely has a team deserved an All Ireland less than that Cork team in 2010, it was handed to them.

They probably didn't deserve the AI based on the performances of that year but they had been consistently good in the previous 3 years (bar games played in CP against Kerry) - more "deserving" of an AI than either Kildare or Down imo
Maybe but the way Kildare were playing that year (albeit after being upended by Louth) I felt they were the better team that year, Cork had their usual loss to Kerry and got the handiest possible draw going almost every time after that, and a Dublin team in the semi that was undergoing serious carthasis after the Kerry and Meath drubbings before becoming the team they are now, but they still could have won but for McConnell late on giving away a penalty and later getting the line, and a Down team in the final that came almost out of nowhere and went back there almost as quickly. Always regarded them as a fine example of flat track bullies as leading football teams go, they'd flatten any disjointed shambles of a team no bother but even if an average team were well organised and put it up to them they struggled to get through.

Usual loss to Kerry hardly applied at that time, when referring to Munster championship which you are doing here. They beat Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009. That Cork team deserved their All-Ireland. 3 finals and 2 semi finals from 2006 to 2010. And in all that time they only lost to 1 team.
If we use the standard of "hardly applied" to 2010 then you can certainly use it to those years, for those wins were all in Munster and also all down in the Pairc (they still haven't beaten Kerry in Killarney since 1995), and what happened in each of those years when Kerry met them later on in Croke Park when it really did matter...

Also they might well have only lost to one team, but they didn't win too many games that they weren't already expected to. Bar those wins over Kerry (all in Munster and all in PuiC), Tyrone in 2009 was the biggest scalp they took, and tbf it was hard to argue with the merit of that one, there were other wins against Galway (05), Meath (07), Dublin (10), but they weren't exactly exceptional opponents at the time and Dublin were only evolving into the marauding force they have since become. We played them twice in that time, the first time we weren't really up to much, but were getting on top of them in the second half and were only 2 points behind until conceding a soft goal that killed us, and the second time our entire team completely froze, and yet Cork still only won by six points. A good team but far from a great one.

I would not consider them one of the great teams either. Certainly not in the typical sporting use of the word. However my point, and reason for commenting initially, was that they deserved their all Ireland. The comment above that rarely has a team deserved an all Ireland less is inaccurate I feel. They showed commendable resilience and yes they fell over the line in the end, but they were the best team in the country that year.

Rossfan

Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

armaghniac

#635
Is this thread still here? Some of us have moved on.

If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Farrandeelin

Quote from: shark on April 05, 2018, 04:01:14 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 03:48:52 PM
Quote from: shark on April 05, 2018, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 05, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 05, 2018, 12:49:22 AM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on April 04, 2018, 07:27:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 04, 2018, 07:01:44 PMThey were very lucky against kildare but not sure on the rest. I think had kildare beat down they'd have won the ai but that is another story.
Always thought the same, Kildare had great momentum that year and might well have done it had the officials done their job right in the semi. Rarely has a team deserved an All Ireland less than that Cork team in 2010, it was handed to them.

They probably didn't deserve the AI based on the performances of that year but they had been consistently good in the previous 3 years (bar games played in CP against Kerry) - more "deserving" of an AI than either Kildare or Down imo
Maybe but the way Kildare were playing that year (albeit after being upended by Louth) I felt they were the better team that year, Cork had their usual loss to Kerry and got the handiest possible draw going almost every time after that, and a Dublin team in the semi that was undergoing serious carthasis after the Kerry and Meath drubbings before becoming the team they are now, but they still could have won but for McConnell late on giving away a penalty and later getting the line, and a Down team in the final that came almost out of nowhere and went back there almost as quickly. Always regarded them as a fine example of flat track bullies as leading football teams go, they'd flatten any disjointed shambles of a team no bother but even if an average team were well organised and put it up to them they struggled to get through.

Usual loss to Kerry hardly applied at that time, when referring to Munster championship which you are doing here. They beat Kerry in 2006, 2008 and 2009. That Cork team deserved their All-Ireland. 3 finals and 2 semi finals from 2006 to 2010. And in all that time they only lost to 1 team.
If we use the standard of "hardly applied" to 2010 then you can certainly use it to those years, for those wins were all in Munster and also all down in the Pairc (they still haven't beaten Kerry in Killarney since 1995), and what happened in each of those years when Kerry met them later on in Croke Park when it really did matter...

Also they might well have only lost to one team, but they didn't win too many games that they weren't already expected to. Bar those wins over Kerry (all in Munster and all in PuiC), Tyrone in 2009 was the biggest scalp they took, and tbf it was hard to argue with the merit of that one, there were other wins against Galway (05), Meath (07), Dublin (10), but they weren't exactly exceptional opponents at the time and Dublin were only evolving into the marauding force they have since become. We played them twice in that time, the first time we weren't really up to much, but were getting on top of them in the second half and were only 2 points behind until conceding a soft goal that killed us, and the second time our entire team completely froze, and yet Cork still only won by six points. A good team but far from a great one.

I would not consider them one of the great teams either. Certainly not in the typical sporting use of the word. However my point, and reason for commenting initially, was that they deserved their all Ireland. The comment above that rarely has a team deserved an all Ireland less is inaccurate I feel. They showed commendable resilience and yes they fell over the line in the end, but they were the best team in the country that year.

No team deserves an All Ireland. You gotta earn it. That's all you hear about Mayo teams every year.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

David McKeown

I actually thought that Cork were pretty good that year apart from the final. They had a very powerful running game off the ball which was very hard for defences to deal with players all running at very unconventional angles to create space for Others bursting through. I enjoyed seeing them three or four times live. I think the standard of the top teams then was far lower than it is now, with the current Dublin (especially) and Mayo teams much better than that Cork team but I don't think that Cork team was any worse than some Other all Ireland winners over the previous decade.
2022 Allianz League Prediction Competition Winner