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Messages - omaghjoe

#16
GAA Discussion / Re: East Belfast GAA
June 04, 2020, 10:02:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 04, 2020, 06:31:04 PM

Fantastic. Just shows you the pent-up demand there is for GAA activity in places you'd least expect.

There's two CCMS schools & parishes on the Newtonards Road St Matthews and St Jospeh's both with 300+ pupils attending. I imagine they both go to St Malachy's and Bredagh respectively at the minute. Plenty of appetite there for a club in my opinion Linda Irvine or not
#17
GAA Discussion / Re: East Belfast GAA
June 04, 2020, 09:45:55 PM
Quote from: ardtole on June 04, 2020, 12:56:06 PM


A bit to go before Portavogie and Donaghadee are challenging for hurling honours.

I can a dual club in North Down.... Millsle Mary Lous
#18
General discussion / Re: 11-Plus Proposal
June 04, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on June 04, 2020, 09:44:53 AM
Quote from: FermGael on June 02, 2020, 09:32:46 PM
Why are you comparing the results to England?

Because it supports the argument that the system in NI is superior and that no change is needed. However that is a very flawed argument, as it involves essentially a "creaming" of students, particularly at A-Level, against one single country that while itself has a mostly comprehensive public education system, still has three geographic areas where the 11+ still essentially exists (Kent, Buckinghamshire & Lincolnshire). No measure is taken of academic & vocational achievements outside of GCSE's & A-Levels with this thinking - different policies by schools as to wherever what children should be entered into exams e.g. keeping weaker students out of taking GCSEs often to improve "league table" results.

FTR, there's decades of research written about the overall academic outcomes between the parts of England still using academic selection, and those that don't. The general consensus is that on an overall basis, those English counties still using academic selection are achieving no better overall outcomes compared to elsewhere in the country.

A good "fit for purpose" (sorry for using such a cliche) education system helps rise all the boats in a convoy - scuttling the smaller/less powerful ones to make yourself look better is not a nominal public education strategy that is beneficial in the longer term.

Quote from: FermGael on June 02, 2020, 09:32:46 PMI would be more interested in looking at Finland.  Been widely acknowledged as the best education system in the world.

If your stronger evidence is results of English schools then you are setting the bar fairly low internationally.
But don't look at the number of pupils leaving schools here compared to England with no GCSE's or less than 5 GCSE's or less than 5 GCSE's including Math's and English. 

Now if you can send me evidence that setting produces better results for all pupils I will be happy to have a look....

Finland has been scoring highly in recent PISA tests that compare educational outcomes around the world, as has its neighbour across the water, Estonia. Funnily enough, Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian have similar language roots - I understand those speaking Finnish can somewhat understand Estonian and vice versa, not sure where Hungarian lies, but Hungary has been ranking a lot lower than Finland & Estonia. Anyway, the Finnish language is one of the easiest Indo-European languages to understand between its vocal & written form which helps when it comes to obtaining high scores in reading/literacy. However, what also helps is that teachers in Finland have to obtain a masters degree to teach, they have a lot of autonomy as to how they teach their pupils, have a comprehensive system for students up until 16 y.o., and that the profession is very highly respected in Finnish society - you don't get the begrudgery of teachers that you often see on these isles.

This quote from a lecturer at a teacher training school in Helsinki was a bit of a punch to the guts... "When we got the results, we were thinking, if we are that good, how bad are the others? We were taken by surprise"  :o

Final tidbit - funny how you rarely, if ever, see northern nationalists compare the NI school system to that in the south.

Interesting... also heard that the teachers stay with pupils for multiple years.
On a side note I find it interesting that their language is considered very "simple" as they hoors never speak... Kimi Raikkonen is very reflected of my experience with finns
#19
GAA Discussion / Re: East Belfast GAA
June 04, 2020, 07:18:49 AM
I think she does a good job in promoting the Irish language but I get the feeling she likes to g ok against the grain for the sake of it.
Example 1. Being an ardent proponent of the Irish language while coming from a loyalist background.
Example 2. Emphasising her loyalist background while at Irish language events. I heard that she sung the sash (In Irish) at such an event in Tyrone. ( i laughed when i heard that)
Shes a bit contrary and rubs people up the wrong way as a result but overall I think she is doing important job breaking down barriers etc
#20
General discussion / Re: 11-Plus Proposal
June 03, 2020, 08:36:19 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 03, 2020, 07:43:45 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 02, 2020, 07:16:38 PM
Quote from: FermGael on June 02, 2020, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 06:12:04 PM
Key difference is that kids are not forced to do KS4, or at least, in its current guise.

For example, what is the point in trying to teach someone differentiation when they'll obviously never use it?


Basic English & Maths - applied where possible - within vocational courses is a much better fit.

Most people who are taught differentiation will never use it imo

What is the point of education? Is it only ever to use something in a vocational setting?

A bit like a brickie I laboured for one summer who didn't realise he used Pythagoras theorem almost every day.

That reminds me any maths teachers on here?

Instead of giving your pupils the "it just is" (which is what I got) show them this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVo6szYE13Y
#21
GAA Discussion / Re: East Belfast GAA
June 03, 2020, 05:33:28 PM
County aside whats the deal with Bredagh and St Malachy's

Is it a class divide at the heart of it?
#22
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 02, 2020, 09:56:10 PM
Quote from: Taylor on June 02, 2020, 08:11:17 PM
Sure lets ban everyone that doesnt agree with your own opinion.

Its a discussion board and rightly or wrongly Whitey is entitles to his own opinion & thoughts.

Censorship indeed....especially at times like this  :-X :-X

When are people going to get it into their heads that it's not the disagreement that counts? I can disagree with people about minor points or about football or listen to well-constructed arguments, and there's a chance a well put together post might change my mind. The problem with the likes of Whitey is they have no intention of raising the standard of debate. Refute one of their points and they just shift the goalposts, change the subject, and a few posts later there they are making the same oft-rebutted point again. People like that add nothing of value to the board. They're just here to wind up and troll, which happens to be a violation of this board's rules. If you don't like the rules then you're welcome to leave, but rules are rules and Whitey is in clear violation of them. If he were banned from here it might do him some good. He might have to find a more productive hobby, like flower-arranging or something.

Eamonn you need to look at your own standard of discussion, you come out with a lot of rhetoric and then revert to ad hominen, frequently a point scoring exercise. Whitey is marginally better than yourself TBF, which is no great compliment. However he does serve an important purpose on this thread which is give dissenting views and I do get the impression that he lives in the real world and form his positions from it and not the realms that the media would like to see the world thru. TBH its disappointing that both of you mess as I know that you both can raise some great points.

This thread needs better policing by the mods with a few warnings dished out now and then to keep things in line. The bot style posters who have no interested in learning or thrashing things should be given a "cool off" period
#23
General discussion / Re: 11-Plus Proposal
June 02, 2020, 07:16:38 PM
Quote from: FermGael on June 02, 2020, 07:04:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on June 02, 2020, 06:12:04 PM
Key difference is that kids are not forced to do KS4, or at least, in its current guise.

For example, what is the point in trying to teach someone differentiation when they'll obviously never use it?


Basic English & Maths - applied where possible - within vocational courses is a much better fit.

Most people who are taught differentiation will never use it imo

What is the point of education? Is it only ever to use something in a vocational setting?

#24
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 11:28:42 PM
Maybe it's time the police in America were designated as terrorists?

After all, they are infested with people who do fit the literal description of the word terrorist.

"a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

Certainly to many, many African-Americans, they are looked upon as such - and with much justification. Very similar to how the British Army were looked upon by Catholics in the North.

It's interesting to see how you can know how whole demographics groups of people that you've often never met before think and feel. Always seems to be in a sweeping homogeneous fashion also.
#25
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

I'm curious.... what is my "stance"? And on what exactly?

Just for reference..I was calling out your vitriol and unwillingness to understand root causes of political phenomenons like the current populist nationalism sweeping the world. I never expressed any opinion on that political movement.... so what exactly makes me a bigot?
Your stance is that you have called discussion of the racism of the Trump regime irrelevant. You attempt to see nuance on an issue over which there is none. Racism is an evil cancer. Racism is endemic in America. White America still cannot come to terms with its evil past or present. It has chosen to perpetuate racism.

What are the so called "legitimate grievances" which justify the rise of American fascism?

I understand the root causes of current day fascist movements like Trump just fine, thanks.

They are they exact same in nature as those which led to the rise of the Nazis.

It isn't difficult. You whip up an ethnic majority into a mob, and blame economic hardship and all of society's ills on an "out group", or out groups. You tell the ethnic majority that their identity is under threat because of the existence of these out groups. And that's basically it. There's not much more to understand. Facism is naked hatred. Fascism is a con trick and people who vote for Trump are the prey of a con trickster.

Nobody has yet been able to say why I'm wrong on this. They can't, because I'm entirely right.

Your just reverting to your irrevlevant retoric... you keep banging this drum about Trump while I'm not contradicting you. It's called a straw man but to be honest you have committed virtually every logical fallacy in the book that there is little point having a discussion with you.

The only discusion I was having was about you painting everyone and everyone with the same facist brush if they differentiate or even question you,  All this is despite not knowing be willing to understand why people think the way they do. If that makes me a bigot in your book youve lost any logical flow to your train of thought. In fact your  posts are so lacking logic, full of retoric and ad hominem that you might find you have more on common with Trump than you think ;-)


#26
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 09:14:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 05:12:44 AM

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
The reason you claim what I say is "irrelevant" is that you don't suffer in any way from racism perpetrated by whites.

And thus you have taken a stance that it is entirely irrelevant to you.

In other words, your stance is "I'm alright, Jack, racism is fine, as long as I'm not the victim of it."

Belief in white supremacism is not a "grievance", as you claim.

Inequality of wealth and life chances is a grievance.

Which precisely nobody in the Republican party has any intention of dealing with - Republican ideology is based on perpetuating it - and which Trump has made exponentially worse.

Anybody who genuinely cared about wealth inequality would be all in for preogressive candidates, of which precisely none exist in the Republican party.

Trump cares less than nothing for poor people. He cares only about channelling wealth to the very richest in society. He is an elite plutocrat fascist with a literal dystopian "burn it down" vision of society, backed monetarily by people of the exact same mindset.

I get it exactly about people like you. And that's what bothers you and others like you here.

You can come up with all the excuses in the world for the reasons you think like you do, but you won't find a legitimate one, you'll only find a fake rationalisation for your own bigotry.

I'm curious.... what is my "stance"? And on what exactly?

Just for reference..I was calling out your vitriol and unwillingness to understand root causes of political phenomenons like the current populist nationalism sweeping the world. I never expressed any opinion on that political movement.... so what exactly makes me a bigot?
#27
Quote from: sid waddell on May 31, 2020, 12:59:22 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 31, 2020, 12:33:09 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...

One of the paradoxes of the modern right-wing is they attempt to destroy nuance in favour of simplism when nuance actually exists, and they mendaciously attempt to confuse things by attempting to introduce fake nuance when things are actually black and white.

The American Civil War is a good example. The Confederacy was an evil entity fighting for an evil cause. And yet one of the few things right-wing crackpots attempt to see nuance in is the cause of the Confederacy. QED. The current day Republican party consistently pushes for confederate symbolism and paraphernalia to be displayed publicly in the face of black people - that black people should daily have to be confronted with the groteesque paraphernalia which explicitly sought to keep them enslaved. This is akin to campaigning for Nazi flags to be flown in the streets of Jerusalem, or outside synagogues.

Trump is the Confederacy in modern day.

Like Hitler, what Trump offers is deeply simplistic and it is based on a lie.

In Germany, the Hitler lie was that economic hardship had been created by a conspiracy by Jews, with the white German as aa pure, entirely innocent victim.

In America, the Trump lie is that economic hardship has been created by blacks, by other ethnic minorities, by women, by sexual minorities, by anybody speaking out on behalf of any of said groups of people. With whites as pure, entirely innocent victims of said fake conspiracy.

Some of the biggest victims of Trump are his own working class supporters, who  needless to say are white. He plays them for fools. He has done nothing for them except made their lives worse than they already were.

Yet these supporters, exactly like Hitler's supporters, are happy to buy into the lie because, deep down, they believe in white supremacism.

White supremacism is the abhorrent, ghoulish core of Trump's appeal.

Its seems like your just reverting to irrelevant retoric. I get it you dont like trump and think hes the akin to the worst regimes in history.
You dont want to know anything about the grievances that he seized upon to gain power. Until those are addressed you wont deal with the symptoms. But I get it, it's messy more difficult to understand no good solutions, easier to demonise which is a guaranteed non solution
#28
Quote from: sid waddell on May 30, 2020, 04:48:19 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on May 30, 2020, 04:07:53 PM
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
All of your friends who are Trump supporters are happy to put up with endemic and vicious racism and the destruction of objective truth. They're happy to put up with massive corruption and kleptocracy. They're happy to put up with an all out assault on science.

They're happy to put up with fascism, in other words.

And if you support Trump, so are you.

Don't f**king patronise me about what I can see with my own two eyes.

Have you considered that the people who live amongst a majority ruling class intent on keeping minoritiees down with a jackboot are the very worst people to judge what is actually going on, and to evaluate what they support?

Your rhetoric is the exact same as those who say "you don't live in East Belfast so you have no understanding of why people support the DUP", "you don't live in a white area of South Africa so you have no understanding of why people support apartheid", or "you don't live in 1930s Germany so you have no idea why people support Hitler".

Judging by your user name you come from Omagh. Somebody from Omagh should have more reason than most to understand the dangers of sectarian and ethnic fanaticism. They should have more reason than most to understand the effects of a majority ruling class who treat ethnic minorities like shit, and what it does to those minorities.

Frankly, any Irish person who supports Trump or would even consider doing so is betraying their own history - and the history of the struggle of Irish people to be free and to be treated justly.

You should know resulting to rabid personal insults over the internet gives me a solid chuckle....

Anyway if youbreak people down into simplistic groups then you loose the personal relatable aspect, I'm off the firm belief you have to meet people to understand them and even then you still wont properly unless you've experienced what they have. I'm pretty confident nonparents have no idea what its like to raise children despite a good number seemingly very willing to share their opinions on the subject. But sitting in with them for a  few hours or days to see their incessant struggles might give you some idea of what parents do and why they do it...and then you might be in a position to give a much more thought out opinion. But then that would take time and effort.

Anyway interesting you should mention Omagh and how it should shape my opinions because it does alot. Omagh was a town that was relatively unaffectted by the troubles until the 98 bomb. I'm of the belief that this is because of the good mixed community relations in the town and the fact Omagh was a garrison town. This meant that people saw and heard from the "other side" daily and saw each other as people and not as opposing tribes. West Tyrones villages are similarly mixed and also saw low levels of parilmilitary activity. To back up my theory you only have to look to East Tyrone where there is alot of division in the towns and villages, much more sectarianism and as a result much more parilmilitary activity.
The level of division. Tribalism, vitriol and demonization from all sides that you see now in the US is getting to similar levels that you would have seen in NI. All that entrenchment means that the other side isnt really seen as human, it's a dangerous place to be when things get like this... The media dont help but i wish people would think before going down this path...
#29
Despite living in California you'll prob be surprised I know plenty of Trump supporters..family friends work colleagues etc. None of them are evil and none of them are Nazi supporters. There is a multitude of reasons for their support of (or at least voted for) Trump
If youve never met a Trump supporters and know them reasonably well and your only understanding of them is thru media outlets then I think it's safe to say you have no understanding of what they think and to your sweeping vitorlic statements about their mindset and beliefs is as just as misguided (more so in most cases) as their belief in Trump.
I understand your narrative tho, US politics is in a frustrating position but if we don't understand why it is there in the first place well never get out of it. Taking an abrasive polar position to what you dont like is an easy option and may seem like the right thing to do,  but its not a very productive one if you want to change hearts and minds, ultimately it just leads to more division.
#30
What alot of posters dont seem to very au fait with is how people feel about politics in the us, and that seems to be what whitey is trying to familarise people with.

Anyone taking a black and white view point on us politics needs to get out a bit and talk to people esp people that have differing opinions to themselves. Then again if your posting from ireland your probably seeing america thru the prison of common media narratives...and you may have a perspective set in concrete that will be very difficult to shift without talking to normal people who have an opinion that you may think is nuts.
Bottom line is this... people have differing opinions they mostly all come from a genuine place, and if you dont like those opinions it doesn't mean they're the devil.