What should be different in a United Ireland?

[Milltown Row2]

Seafoid banned from Gaaboard

Seafoid is a great poster. Ok maybe he starts a disproportionate amount of threads (have himself and Fearon got a competition going?). But he adds a lot on here.

Ok Seafoid 

[Milltown Row2]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

Who'd pay for the free health care??

[muppet]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

And force even more people onto trollies?

[seafoid]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

Who'd pay for the free health care??

Efficiency savings. You could probably fund it just by banning the use of taxis LOL\
The HSE is a trough for piggies and rent seekers and nobody cares because the infinitely deep pockets of the taxpayer are ultimately responsible.
work practices are a joke
As is the attitude of the consultants

[Milltown Row2]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

Who'd pay for the free health care??

Efficiency savings. You could probably fund it just by banning the use of taxis LOL\
The HSE is a trough for piggies and rent seekers and nobody cares because the infinitely deep pockets of the taxpayer are ultimately responsible.
work practices are a joke
As is the attitude of the consultants

Ok what efficiency savings are we talking about?? Seriously some people think that countries can maintain free health care and not take a hit elsewhere in the pocket.... Its a fine balance, pay what you can afford health care, the rich pay more than the poor for health based on yearly incomes.... But everybody pays something otherwise it wont be able to sustain it

[MoChara]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

Who'd pay for the free health care??

The reclamation of our national resources from the likes of Shell would more than cover the cost in the medium to long term.

Also another thing I'd implement is the Standard Industrial wage would be the wage our politicians would receive, if they want a pay rise they have to give the whole country a pay rise, being a politician should be a vocation not a career anyway.

[MoChara]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

And force even more people onto trollies?

There would be the same amount of hospitals doctors and beds, I'm not saying knock down the private facilities and run the Doctors out of the country. Just there wouldn't be a hierarchy of who gets them.

[muppet]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

And force even more people onto trollies?

There would be the same amount of hospitals doctors and beds, I'm not saying knock down the private facilities and run the Doctors out of the country. Just there wouldn't be a hierarchy of who gets them.

There is always a hierarchy. Do you give only available liver transplant to the homeless alcoholic or the sick child?

People with money would simply go abroad for treatment and take their money with them. In fact this already happens to some degree because the perception of our health service is so poor. Any top medic would leave with them, unless they wanted to waste away here in the PS. You could then say you would ban that too. And we would be on the slippery slope to......

Communism is all good and well but we know it doesn't ever work in reality. There has to be at least some degree of meritocracy to ensure individuals are motived. Living under communism wasn't quite what I was taught at school to believe. I don't know where our teachers got their info - I was told almost everyone was poor - but regardless it doesn't work. People had plenty of money, but they didn't have an economy that produced anything for them to spend it on. Bread, milk etc was rationed and the price controlled. There was always a shortage, as bread and milk producers had no incentive to modernise or increase production. The extra money they would make couldn't buy them anything. Bread and milk are just examples, the entire economy was like that.

If wealthy people want to spend extra money on local services like private health care, then let them. Our problem with them should be when they make money from our economy and then move it abroad. Things are bad enough without forcing them to do it because of ideology.

[MoChara]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

And force even more people onto trollies?

There would be the same amount of hospitals doctors and beds, I'm not saying knock down the private facilities and run the Doctors out of the country. Just there wouldn't be a hierarchy of who gets them.

There is always a hierarchy. Do you give only available liver transplant to the homeless alcoholic or the sick child?

People with money would simply go abroad for treatment and take their money with them. In fact this already happens to some degree because the perception of our health service is so poor. Any top medic would leave with them, unless they wanted to waste away here in the PS. You could then say you would ban that too. And we would be on the slippery slope to......

Communism is all good and well but we know it doesn't ever work in reality. There has to be at least some degree of meritocracy to ensure individuals are motived. Living under communism wasn't quite what I was taught at school to believe. I don't know where our teachers got their info - I was told almost everyone was poor - but regardless it doesn't work. People had plenty of money, but they didn't have an economy that produced anything for them to spend it on. Bread, milk etc was rationed and the price controlled. There was always a shortage, as bread and milk producers had no incentive to modernise or increase production. The extra money they would make couldn't buy them anything. Bread and milk are just examples, the entire economy was like that.

If wealthy people want to spend extra money on local services like private health care, then let them. Our problem with them should be when they make money from our economy and then move it abroad. Things are bad enough without forcing them to do it because of ideology.

The fact someones homeless shouldn't have a bearing on how deserving they are tbh, but the Alcoholic versus a Child I agree is a good topic for debate but that's a moralistic argument as opposed to economic, I don't think anyone should be in prolonged ill health or die because they don't have money, when there are others that don't.

There are doctors using the public health care facilities to tend to private patients, that's all sorts of wrong in my mind.

I'm not a communist by any stretch but the phrase Communism doesn't work in reality can also be said of the Capitalism, take the amount of people with the vast majority of the wealth, people with 4 and 5 houses versus people trying to raise their families in hotel rooms, the shining example of capitalism and democracy America where election after elections the party with the largest campaign budget wins a trend going on decades.

[LeoMc]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

Who'd pay for the free health care??

The reclamation of our national resources from the likes of Shell would more than cover the cost in the medium to long term.

Also another thing I'd implement is the Standard Industrial wage would be the wage our politicians would receive, if they want a pay rise they have to give the whole country a pay rise, being a politician should be a vocation not a career anyway.

For politicians only or for everyone?

[MoChara]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

Who'd pay for the free health care??

The reclamation of our national resources from the likes of Shell would more than cover the cost in the medium to long term.

Also another thing I'd implement is the Standard Industrial wage would be the wage our politicians would receive, if they want a pay rise they have to give the whole country a pay rise, being a politician should be a vocation not a career anyway.

For politicians only or for everyone?

I mean the politicians would be paid at what the average wage across the national work force is, int he Norths its about £27k. Rather than meaning I'd implement a Standard Industrial Wage across the board if you get me.

[blewuporstuffed]

 

In a United Ireland, every train station will have an airport.

[muppet]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

And force even more people onto trollies?

There would be the same amount of hospitals doctors and beds, I'm not saying knock down the private facilities and run the Doctors out of the country. Just there wouldn't be a hierarchy of who gets them.

There is always a hierarchy. Do you give only available liver transplant to the homeless alcoholic or the sick child?

People with money would simply go abroad for treatment and take their money with them. In fact this already happens to some degree because the perception of our health service is so poor. Any top medic would leave with them, unless they wanted to waste away here in the PS. You could then say you would ban that too. And we would be on the slippery slope to......

Communism is all good and well but we know it doesn't ever work in reality. There has to be at least some degree of meritocracy to ensure individuals are motived. Living under communism wasn't quite what I was taught at school to believe. I don't know where our teachers got their info - I was told almost everyone was poor - but regardless it doesn't work. People had plenty of money, but they didn't have an economy that produced anything for them to spend it on. Bread, milk etc was rationed and the price controlled. There was always a shortage, as bread and milk producers had no incentive to modernise or increase production. The extra money they would make couldn't buy them anything. Bread and milk are just examples, the entire economy was like that.

If wealthy people want to spend extra money on local services like private health care, then let them. Our problem with them should be when they make money from our economy and then move it abroad. Things are bad enough without forcing them to do it because of ideology.

The fact someones homeless shouldn't have a bearing on how deserving they are tbh, but the Alcoholic versus a Child I agree is a good topic for debate but that's a moralistic argument as opposed to economic, I don't think anyone should be in prolonged ill health or die because they don't have money, when there are others that don't.

There are doctors using the public health care facilities to tend to private patients, that's all sorts of wrong in my mind.

I'm not a communist by any stretch but the phrase Communism doesn't work in reality can also be said of the Capitalism, take the amount of people with the vast majority of the wealth, people with 4 and 5 houses versus people trying to raise their families in hotel rooms, the shining example of capitalism and democracy America where election after elections the party with the largest campaign budget wins a trend going on decades.

Thank you for the reasoned reply. For some reason my style of posting seems to set people off into all sorts of anger.

Anyway, I completely agree with you on the public health care facilities being used by private practices. That is outrageous and is the very first issue that should be tackled. I disagree with banning private health care, but there is no way we should give them public facilities for free.

As for capitalism v communism, there is no comparison in my opinion. One works ok some of the time and poorly the rest of the time, while the other doesn't work at all. What we have at the moment is the worst of both worlds, with naked capitalism in the boom (private profits not shared) and disastrous communism in the crash (all debts picked up by the taxpayer).

Pure capitalism would have seen Wall St. bankrupted, which is exactly what it deserved. It would have seen Anglo and its bondholders crash and burn. The other banks would have suffered as well. Too big to fail is nonsense, too big to bail should be the motto. Yes the economy would have suffered but that suffering would have been highest for those who speculated too much, instead of the opposite, which we have now.

BTW I am not an advocate of pure aggressive capitalism either, except for the most aggressive capitalists. They should have reaped what they sowed.

The reality of both Communism and Capitalism is that they exist for the benefit of those in power and not for anyone else. But the latter delivers better economies imho.

[Rossfan]

Good discussion Muppet and no chara but in reality in a new All Ireland set up the same well heeled crowd, business/law/medicine/property etc would still be calling the shots and most Politicians would be up their rear ends.

[MoChara]

I'd outlaw private Health care, health shouldn't be the preserve of the Wealthy.

And force even more people onto trollies?

There would be the same amount of hospitals doctors and beds, I'm not saying knock down the private facilities and run the Doctors out of the country. Just there wouldn't be a hierarchy of who gets them.

There is always a hierarchy. Do you give only available liver transplant to the homeless alcoholic or the sick child?

People with money would simply go abroad for treatment and take their money with them. In fact this already happens to some degree because the perception of our health service is so poor. Any top medic would leave with them, unless they wanted to waste away here in the PS. You could then say you would ban that too. And we would be on the slippery slope to......

Communism is all good and well but we know it doesn't ever work in reality. There has to be at least some degree of meritocracy to ensure individuals are motived. Living under communism wasn't quite what I was taught at school to believe. I don't know where our teachers got their info - I was told almost everyone was poor - but regardless it doesn't work. People had plenty of money, but they didn't have an economy that produced anything for them to spend it on. Bread, milk etc was rationed and the price controlled. There was always a shortage, as bread and milk producers had no incentive to modernise or increase production. The extra money they would make couldn't buy them anything. Bread and milk are just examples, the entire economy was like that.

If wealthy people want to spend extra money on local services like private health care, then let them. Our problem with them should be when they make money from our economy and then move it abroad. Things are bad enough without forcing them to do it because of ideology.

The fact someones homeless shouldn't have a bearing on how deserving they are tbh, but the Alcoholic versus a Child I agree is a good topic for debate but that's a moralistic argument as opposed to economic, I don't think anyone should be in prolonged ill health or die because they don't have money, when there are others that don't.

There are doctors using the public health care facilities to tend to private patients, that's all sorts of wrong in my mind.

I'm not a communist by any stretch but the phrase Communism doesn't work in reality can also be said of the Capitalism, take the amount of people with the vast majority of the wealth, people with 4 and 5 houses versus people trying to raise their families in hotel rooms, the shining example of capitalism and democracy America where election after elections the party with the largest campaign budget wins a trend going on decades.

Thank you for the reasoned reply. For some reason my style of posting seems to set people off into all sorts of anger.

Anyway, I completely agree with you on the public health care facilities being used by private practices. That is outrageous and is the very first issue that should be tackled. I disagree with banning private health care, but there is no way we should give them public facilities for free.

As for capitalism v communism, there is no comparison in my opinion. One works ok some of the time and poorly the rest of the time, while the other doesn't work at all. What we have at the moment is the worst of both worlds, with naked capitalism in the boom (private profits not shared) and disastrous communism in the crash (all debts picked up by the taxpayer).

Pure capitalism would have seen Wall St. bankrupted, which is exactly what it deserved. It would have seen Anglo and its bondholders crash and burn. The other banks would have suffered as well. Too big to fail is nonsense, too big to bail should be the motto. Yes the economy would have suffered but that suffering would have been highest for those who speculated too much, instead of the opposite, which we have now.

BTW I am not an advocate of pure aggressive capitalism either, except for the most aggressive capitalists. They should have reaped what they sowed.


The reality of both Communism and Capitalism is that they exist for the benefit of those in power and not for anyone else. But the latter delivers better economies imho.

I can give you an unreasonable reply if you'd prefer? lol

I agree both systems have their issues and I would be inclined for a meeting in the middle obviously my sentiments would be pulled strongly to the left.

I've heard the current set-up described more as a Corporatocracy than Capitalism which to be fair I find accurate Big Business has more power than a lot of nations and where they don't have power they have strong influence. Even so far as private Defence contractors (mercenary private armies) make up close to 50% of all american military personal in Iraq.

Capitalism is credited as being defined by Adam Smith and even he warns about the system we have today,the mercantile system was the standard then where markets were ring fenced by one company/enterprise, which is exactly what we have today just looking at the drinks industry Diageo and Coca Cola have it wrapped up and can destroy their competition with no risk, meaning the thought that goods and work will balance and find there true values cannot take effect.