U.tv website states
McDonnell resigns at Armagh
Peter McDonnell resigned as Armagh manager on Tuesday after two years with the county.
The county board is now meeting to decide how the team will proceed and are expected to issue a statement soon.
Under McDonnell, Armagh won the Ulster Championship last year but were knocked out of this year's campaign in the first round by Tyrone.
Armagh also lost disappointingly to Monaghan in the first round of this year's All-Ireland qualifiers.
While the BBC state that all will be clarified this evening
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8161459.stm
"Armagh chairman Kevin Brady has refused to comment on whether he expects McDonnell to be in charge next year."
Probably inevitable.
I thought he would walk away. Was always going to be up against it after big Joe's fine record and after this year's retirements.
Just got the email from the club secretary which contained a statement from County Board announcing his retirement.
David just sent you a PM
report on armagh gaa website!
http://www.armagh-gaa.com/Football/News/Peter-McDonnell-Steps-down-as-Armagh-Manager.aspx
What would have to be in place for McGeeney to head back to the Orchard?
Winning Ulster first time out may not have helped McDonnell's long-term plans.
Fair play to McDonnell for doing honourable thing when he knows a change would be for the best. Pity Ross Carr wouldnt do likewise in Down where a large majority of gaels want him out.
QuoteWhat would have to be in place for McGeeney to head back to the Orchard?
If I were McGeeney I'd take note of the minors winning Ulster and plan to head back in 2 or 3 years time, when all of the 1999-2002 squad have gone.
QuoteWinning Ulster first time out may not have helped McDonnell's long-term plans.
Perhaps. But the manner of defeat in the Wexford game should not have left any complacency, even if Ulster was won.
would donal muragh be the man for the job?
Can't see McGeeney going to Armagh at the moment, maybe couple of years down the line. Why swap a team going somewhere with one that looks on the road to nowhere?
what are the possibilities for the next man in? Mc Geeney, Mc Ivor or a sensational return from big Joe? :P
Quotewhat are the possibilities for the next man in? Mc Geeney, Mc Ivor or a sensational return from big Joe?
It wouldn't be like Joe to take on a team that isn't within a year or two of winning another title.
Would like to see some one from outside the county take over...So there is none of the politics sh*te that goes on...
He can come in, no previous ties or loyalties, pick the best players himself rather than have them picked for him
Jody Gormley to take them back to division 4 and the revolution is complete.
Quote from: ONeill on July 21, 2009, 06:42:19 PM
Jody Gormley to take them back to division 4 and the revolution is complete.
Cheers ONeill, never knew you cared so much
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 21, 2009, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: ONeill on July 21, 2009, 06:42:19 PM
Jody Gormley to take them back to division 4 and the revolution is complete.
Cheers ONeill, never knew you cared so much
I'm sure John Rafferty wont need help to bring them into Div 4
heard that peter was stepping down,
also heard joe is interested in coming back as is mc alinden but the players are trying to push for paul grimley
geezer has bno interest in the job but dont be surprised to see ir being betweeen th top 3
Wow!
This will be a big one
Baker Bradley for the Armagh job! lol!
Joe wouldn't be interested I don't think.
Grimley would be good - but he might not go back if the board snubbed him last time
Rafferty maybe?
tI would like to see big Grimley given a chance, he has a proven track record as a manager and he has the respect of the players, that said I thought he was treated shabbily by the co board the last time he showed interest and I am not sure he would take it if the job was offered to him.
it will be interesting to see who gets the job, I really hope McAlinden does not get it, I still havent forgiven him after changing the team that destroyed down in the Ulster final years ago, he brought Donaldson into the team and that killed us. :'(
reading between the lines from recent grimley interviews he would be back in a heart beat
lets hope whoever takes the reigns can make something of the current team and big Joe can stay out of things
Quote from: The Iceman on July 21, 2009, 08:10:12 PM
reading between the lines from recent grimley interviews he would be back in a heart beat
lets hope whoever takes the reigns can make something of the current team and big Joe can stay out of things
He say he was very hurt though too didn't he?
Quote from: JMohan on July 21, 2009, 08:15:28 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 21, 2009, 08:10:12 PM
reading between the lines from recent grimley interviews he would be back in a heart beat
lets hope whoever takes the reigns can make something of the current team and big Joe can stay out of things
He say he was very hurt though too didn't he?
Sorry re -read the interview there - can't see him coming back based on the aforementioned "hurt" they caused him.
Maybe Big Joe will come back for a year as some of the rumours suggest or at least until Geezer is ready to leave Kildare.......
We need a complete fresh start, taking JK back would be a big mistake and I wouldnt be so keen on Grimley, nothing against the men themselves but we need a complete fresh start, wipe the slate clean, and build.
I'd like to see someone from outside the county, no ties to the county, no bias, pick the best 15, including 6 forwards!
for me the ideal appointment would be grimley and geezer but its unlikely to happen.
http://armaghgaa.info/forum/f5/peter-mcdonnell-resigns-198-new/
Not often I would say this but I agree with Pints. With no obvious new candidate and outsider may be the best.
Throw in the use of a helicopter and a 5 digit sum and Micko will be up no bother.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 21, 2009, 08:53:38 PM
Throw in the use of a helicopter and a 5 digit sum and Micko will be up no bother.
It's 6 digit
(On very good authority)
Leave Geezer and Grimley alone >:(
The only way McGeeney will appear is if there is a clear out of the current county board
Dust off the leg warmers......Beefer it is!! :D
Pat Spillane is up for it lol
Quote from: Rocky Mc Guigan on July 21, 2009, 09:18:07 PM
The only way McGeeney will appear is if there is a clear out of the current county board
Cork county board are in situ despite the best efforts of the lads.
Armagh county board have no reason to get cleared out.
So not a runner.
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: Rocky Mc Guigan on July 21, 2009, 09:18:07 PM
The only way McGeeney will appear is if there is a clear out of the current county board
Cork county board are in situ despite the best efforts of the lads.
Armagh county board have no reason to get cleared out.
So not a runner.
That just shows how much you know
Kevin Keegan.
Hes available.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 21, 2009, 09:05:11 PM
Leave Geezer and Grimley alone >:(
Hear hear!
I doubt McGeeney would leave us at this point in time. Not the kind of man to leave a job half done.
Whether Paul Grimley would desert Geezer is another matter. He does appear to be quite bitter about not getting the Armagh job after Joe Kernan's departure though.
Why not give it to Bennydorano!
Won't it depend on how much money the board has if they want an outsider.
Fr. McAleer?
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: Rocky Mc Guigan on July 21, 2009, 09:18:07 PM
The only way McGeeney will appear is if there is a clear out of the current county board
Cork county board are in situ despite the best efforts of the lads.
Armagh county board have no reason to get cleared out.
So not a runner.
Apart from the fact that they;re buckin useless
My preferred management team
Marsden, Tony Scullion, Grimley, with McGeeney as manager.
Whar have marsden and scullion done as coaches to merit inclusion?
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 21, 2009, 09:52:06 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 09:24:10 PM
Quote from: Rocky Mc Guigan on July 21, 2009, 09:18:07 PM
The only way McGeeney will appear is if there is a clear out of the current county board
Cork county board are in situ despite the best efforts of the lads.
Armagh county board have no reason to get cleared out.
So not a runner.
Apart from the fact that they;re buckin useless
Was it the CB's fault that Armagh lost this year, last year, the year before that etc ?
Was it because of the CB that they won the Sam in 2002 ?
No to all questions. The CB thing is a red herring. In a lot of people's eyes the county boards throughout Ireland are useless, but how many are volunteering to do the jobs that these lads do ????
Justin McNulty could be a candidate.
Hes been fairly successful at club management.
Armagh county board don't possess the skillset to be properly researching and appointing any type of coach or manager, never mind the county senior one.
none of them ever did a day of coaching. only one man in the executive actually played the game - some 40 years ago. how can that group of people be entrusted with making the most important managerial appointment in the county?
How could any of them have any understanding of the fundamentals of football management? skill enhancement, man management, psychological preparation, gameplans, tactics, etc? Given that they have no basic knowledge of these things then how can they competantly appoint the best man for the job? they won't evem be able to draw up criteria for possible candidates to meet!
Lets not forget these guys made the last appointment and only appointed kernan against their better judgement in autumn 01 because they were staring into the barrell of a gun if they didn't.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 21, 2009, 09:57:07 PM
Whar have marsden and scullion done as coaches to merit inclusion?
Marsden as a forwards coach and Scullion for the backs. They are both AI winners (not to mention a bucket load of other medals), so they know what it takes. Both full-time coaching development officers for Ulster Council. Can't speak for Tony Scullion but I know Diarmaid won a Division 2 title, Division 1 and reached the Armagh SFC in the space of two years when player/manager at Clan na Gael, is that not good enough for a selector?
well the first thing is that both are barred from county jobs because of their work with the ulster council.
playing records are irrelevent to coaching credentials.
has scullion ever won anything as a coach?
maybe marsden might be credible but he's probably too young to have the cv for it yet.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 21, 2009, 10:06:15 PM
Armagh county board don't possess the skillset to be properly researching and appointing any type of coach or manager, never mind the county senior one.
none of them ever did a day of coaching. only one man in the executive actually played the game - some 40 years ago. how can that group of people be entrusted with making the most important managerial appointment in the county?
How could any of them have any understanding of the fundamentals of football management? skill enhancement, man management, psychological preparation, gameplans, tactics, etc? Given that they have no basic knowledge of these things then how can they competantly appoint the best man for the job? they won't evem be able to draw up criteria for possible candidates to meet!
Lets not forget these guys made the last appointment and only appointed kernan against their better judgement in autumn 01 because they were staring into the barrell of a gun if they didn't.
I don't know the lads on the CB but you're not painting a very good picture of them. I don't dispute what you're saying but they mustn't have much between the lugs if what you say is correct.
Quotet will be interesting to see who gets the job, I really hope McAlinden does not get it, I still havent forgiven him after changing the team that destroyed down in the Ulster final years ago, he brought Donaldson into the team and that killed us
McAlinden woudn't be the right man for this job, but this is a bit harsh on him and Donaldson. John McDermott was simply immense that day, and that's why Armagh lost. Sometimes things like this happen.
Both McGeeney and McNulty should have the sense to stay away from this job for a few years. There's a few of their old mates need retired, and it's not fair on anyone in situations like that.
QuoteArmagh county board don't possess the skillset to be properly researching and appointing any type of coach or manager, never mind the county senior one.
This statement is rotten to the core. It is disrespectful to men who have given far too much of their lives to the GAA. It is disrespectful to the structures of the GAA. It is disrespectful to the men who selected Joe Kernan to take Armagh to their only All-Ireland, and to the the men who selected Peter McDonnell, who won an Ulster title with an over the hill squad. Worst of all, it doesn't offer an alternative.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 21, 2009, 09:57:07 PM
Whar have marsden and scullion done as coaches to merit inclusion?
only two of the best coaches in ireland...
anyway, outside manager could be out of question - consider the cost cutting measures the county board has carried out this last while, development squads were nearly gone completely and i would imagine the expenses issue was a key factor in the last choice of management, with the, er, successful candidates being probably the cheapest option. while our counterparts in tyrone are building multi-million pound centres of excellence armagh spent the guts of 10 years renovating the athletic grounds. two county boards at complete opposite ends of the spectrum. tyrone built on what they achieved in 03, armagh stood back and thought it would never end.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 21, 2009, 10:09:33 PM
well the first thing is that both are barred from county jobs because of their work with the ulster council.
playing records are irrelevent to coaching credentials.
has scullion ever won anything as a coach?
maybe marsden might be credible but he's probably too young to have the cv for it yet.
These are the men who in an ideal world I would like to see take Armagh. Chances are they won't, but I am led to believe this was the make up of the backroom staff when McGeeney was going for the job last time round. Don't see how Marsden is too young he's only a few years behind Geezer.
I think Marsden would be perfect for a role in the new management team.
But I believe that his job in the Ulster council rules him ( and anyone else in the Ulster council for that matter ) out.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2009, 10:11:55 PM
QuoteArmagh county board don't possess the skillset to be properly researching and appointing any type of coach or manager, never mind the county senior one.
This statement is rotten to the core. It is disrespectful to men who have given far too much of their lives to the GAA. It is disrespectful to the structures of the GAA. It is disrespectful to the men who selected Joe Kernan to take Armagh to their only All-Ireland, and to the the men who selected Peter McDonnell, who won an Ulster title with an over the hill squad. Worst of all, it doesn't offer an alternative.
Wobbler the Armagh CB blatantly ignored the wishes of the clubs who voted by majority for another canditate. They instead went and instated McDonnell. I have nothing against McDonnell and am grateful that he won us another Ulster, but at the end of the day it wasn't fair that McDonnell was picked ahead of Grimley, just because someone on the county board didn't like him. McDonnell was and is not to blame, and I feel he has got the raw end of the deal because of this fiasco and has been blatantly used by the Armagh county board. So f*ck the lot of them
Quote from: qub la la la on July 21, 2009, 10:14:03 PM
only two of the best coaches in ireland...
How do you know?
Have the Armagh CB through their sponsors etc ensured that county teams as past 7/8 years are very well provided for / looked after or would they be tight on resources ????
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2009, 10:11:55 PM
[
QuoteArmagh county board don't possess the skillset to be properly researching and appointing any type of coach or manager, never mind the county senior one.
This statement is rotten to the core. It is disrespectful to men who have given far too much of their lives to the GAA. It is disrespectful to the structures of the GAA. It is disrespectful to the men who selected Joe Kernan to take Armagh to their only All-Ireland, and to the the men who selected Peter McDonnell, who won an Ulster title with an over the hill squad. Worst of all, it doesn't offer an alternative.
I agree totally. Senior management in my work dont know .NET, Perl, SCOM, Java Beans, UML, Solaris patching, etc etc yet they still manage to run a very successful company
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 10:18:03 PM
I think Marsden would be perfect for a role in the new management team.
But I believe that his job in the Ulster council rules him ( and anyone else in the Ulster council for that matter ) out.
I wasn't aware of this, does it only apply for intercounty senior? As I am near sure one of the minor selectors is with the Ulster council.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2009, 10:11:55 PM
QuoteArmagh county board don't possess the skillset to be properly researching and appointing any type of coach or manager, never mind the county senior one.
This statement is rotten to the core. It is disrespectful to men who have given far too much of their lives to the GAA. It is disrespectful to the structures of the GAA. It is disrespectful to the men who selected Joe Kernan to take Armagh to their only All-Ireland, and to the the men who selected Peter McDonnell, who won an Ulster title with an over the hill squad. Worst of all, it doesn't offer an alternative.
You can't wheel out a blanket defence of dedication, volunteerism, etc everytime there;sa critical word ushered about a county board anywhere in the country. i'd venture that i know the strengths and weaknesses of our county board better than you. they are well able to fundraise and get the admin side of things running well. however, they are just not football men. They do not know the game. They certainly do not knoe anything about coaching or managing.
The only credible way forward is to appoint a subcommittee with the relevent expertise and experienceto research, interview and recommend a manager. three men. lets say paddy mo, paul mcgrane and brian mceniff.
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 10:18:03 PM
I think Marsden would be perfect for a role in the new management team.
But I believe that his job in the Ulster council rules him ( and anyone else in the Ulster council for that matter ) out.
I wouldn't be so sure, Gary Mallon who was part of McDonnell's backroom team works with the Ulster Council.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 21, 2009, 10:26:00 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 10:18:03 PM
I think Marsden would be perfect for a role in the new management team.
But I believe that his job in the Ulster council rules him ( and anyone else in the Ulster council for that matter ) out.
I wouldn't be so sure, Gary Mallon who was part of McDonnell's backroom team works with the Ulster Council.
Was thinking of him!
banty?
Quotethey are just not football men. They do not know the game.
In my experience (having been involved in one), county board members are among the most dedicated followers of football you'll come across. Maybe in Armagh things are done differently, but I just don't see how someone could (or would want to) rise up the ranks without a passion bordering on vocational. This, I'll repeat, is simply disrespectful.
QuoteThey certainly do not knoe anything about coaching or managing.
They don't have to. They are administrators. Administrators are normally surprisingly good at weighing up the pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses of a situation. That's why they end up in the role. Even if you appointed a selection committee of managers, their understanding of management techniques could only be one small aspect of a selection process. The candidate's demands and desires, financial demands, availability, internal politics, popularity, trustworthiness and general knowledge of Armagh football would all figure just as strongly. And frankly, finding all this stuff out would bore the tits off most people who aren't administrators.
Quotepaddy mo, paul mcgrane and brian mceniff.
So you would trust the county board to appoint the correct selection sub-committee? I'll not even discuss the inividuals you've mentioned.
The only credible way forward is to appoint a subcommittee with the relevent expertise and experienceto research, interview and recommend a manager. three men. lets say paddy mo, paul mcgrane and brian mceniff.
Mc Enifff seems to have made a positive contibution to the Donegal managerial appointment.
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 11:02:59 PM
The only credible way forward is to appoint a subcommittee with the relevent expertise and experienceto research, interview and recommend a manager. three men. lets say paddy mo, paul mcgrane and brian mceniff.
Mc Enifff seems to have made a positive contibution to the Donegal managerial appointment.
They've done this in Cork a few times and do you see the trouble its caused where the sub-committee was not given the proper space to work in. You need
knowledge, experience and independence.
So every county board official is a paragon of virtue, skilled worker and dedicated football man, just be holding a post?
in my experience, more county board men that not are there because they want the kudos and have the time.
As in most walks of life, the best men for the job are too busy.
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2009, 10:41:01 PM
Quotethey are just not football men. They do not know the game.
In my experience (having been involved in one), county board members are among the most dedicated followers of football you'll come across. Maybe in Armagh things are done differently, but I just don't see how someone could (or would want to) rise up the ranks without a passion bordering on vocational. This, I'll repeat, is simply disrespectful.
Wobbler, with all due respect, this may be the case in your county but its not the case in Armagh - full stop. If I were to use one word to sum up our County board collectively it would be businessmen. I'm not taking away from their administrative roles however, it has to be asked, what have these men done for their clubs prior to their County work and I'm not talking about all of them here, but for alot of them, if you ask their fellow club men what do they think of them as Gaels, they would laugh in your face.
Again I stress this is not all of them, but the ones I know have received as much from the County as what they have put in - thats a fact!
Lads, I have to say I am sorry to see Peter go as I think if he had been given time and made a few backroom changes then he could have been the difference.
As regards replacements, Geezer and Grimley will be going nowhere. Too much time invested so far by them and too much money invested by others to let them go. In regards to big name outsiders, forget it lads. It is a recession at the minute if people hadn't realised and there is no way that a board as frugal as Armagh will stump up a 5 figure sum for someone like Boylan or McGrath to manage a team. Maybe the M&M show may be a runner but they only do it for the love of the game :P
I think realistically the likes of either of the Rafferty's or McAlinden. Can't see donal throwing his hat in the ring and even if he did the CB would not appoint him for fear he would play half the Cross team!!! I reckon McAlinden with John Rafferty as his number 2.
Have to say following the Monaghan match I'm glad Peter resigned. Very frustrating last few weeks watching the likes of Donegal and Wicklow progressing to last 12 and we we never got started. I think most Armagh fans were prepared to give Peter a fair crack of the whip, but after the last match things looked like they were very much digressing.
I think the CB will take their time with this and it could take to October. After all, whats the rush? Personally, I'd like to see Geezer and Big Paul back with the likes of Marsden or McGrane involved. I think Brian McAlinden will be a strong candidate. He did a good job with U21s and thats where last manager came from. Would also like to see Liam McCorry involved in coaching role, but again he works with Ulster council so not sure where that fits in.
I would like to see McAlinden given the job again. I dont think we have the squad to be challenging immediately but we do have a very young team and if they could be brought on properly then 2-3 years down the line I could see us in the top 4-6 teams in the country again. McAlinden has proven in the past he can build teams like that
I posted this message back in early July and my opinion hasn't changed.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 06, 2009, 05:17:27 PM
I have to laugh at some of the Armagh posters here who suffer from serious short term memory loss. It wasn't that long ago after the 1 point defeat by Galway in 2001 that supporters were calling for the 2 Brian's to be axed as Armagh managers. Statements like "they can't bring us over the finishing line" were being thrown about at that time. Now the same "supporters" are asking for the 2 Brian's or at least one of them to come back again. Under Brian McAlinden this years Armagh U21 team displayed exactly the same self destruct capability as was the case when he was in charge of the Armagh seniors back in 2000 against Kerry. For those of you who can't remember the Armagh seniors had Kerry beat in the 2000 All-Ireland semi but lost and again in this years Ulster U21 final against Down the Armagh U21 team had Down beat but lost.
Firstly I think Peter McDonnell should be thanked by Armagh supporters for the time and effort he put into the team this past 2 years. In ways, he inhereited a thankless task, an aging team past its best with good prospects but not those of a sufficient quality to replace the players leaving, as well as a support base used to success and clambouring for a trophy that was probably beyond the reach of any manager. In the circumstances, to win an Ulster title was a remarkable achievement and probably deserved more recognition than it got. Peter won an Ulster title at probably the only time in Armagh's history that fans would be blasé about such an achievement. That said, it it must be remembered that to win the Ulster last year, we beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in Ulster. I know this sounds stupid and could be interpreted as disrespectful to Fermanagh who were in the finbal on merit but playing ability wise, I think it holds up. Basically, Peter tried, he did his best but ultimately he measured up a little short and I'm glad he spared himself and the county a long drawn out messy departure.
As for his successor, I think we should look within the county first. If a high quality outsider declares his interest, all well and good and he should be considered but if its just the usual suspect who pop at times like this, I wouldn't be too fussed.
Like the majority of Armagh supporters, Geezer and Grimley are far and away my first choice but I think Geezer will want at least another year to try to win Leinster. If Grimley was willing to come on his own, I think he'd deserve a chance.
Outside of those two, I wouldn't think Donal Murtagh would be interested. Big Joe's name will undoubtedly be linked but I'm not sure he'll be interested. If he is, we could probably do worse. He has proven credentials at the top level which may be something lacking in the eventual contenders. McAlinden would be a bit of a step backwards. I can't dsitinguish his reign from the comments made by Aidan O'Rourke after the Galway match in 2001. Justy McNulty put his name forward for the u21 job and if he wanted the job I'd rather take a chance on him that settle for some mid ranking mercenary from another county or province.
1st choice would have to be the current kildare management, but I think that everyone here is forgetting about Peter Rafferty who was the manger of the last armagh team to win an all ireland the U21s in 04 if we stay in house for a manager i think hed have to be considered if interested.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 21, 2009, 11:45:04 PM
Firstly I think Peter McDonnell should be thanked by Armagh supporters for the time and effort he put into the team this past 2 years. In ways, he inhereited a thankless task, an aging team past its best with good prospects but not those of a sufficient quality to replace the players leaving, as well as a support base used to success and clambouring for a trophy that was probably beyond the reach of any manager. In the circumstances, to win an Ulster title was a remarkable achievement and probably deserved more recognition than it got. Peter won an Ulster title at probably the only time in Armagh's history that fans would be blasé about such an achievement. That said, it it must be remembered that to win the Ulster last year, we beat 3 of the 4 worst teams in Ulster. I know this sounds stupid and could be interpreted as disrespectful to Fermanagh who were in the finbal on merit but playing ability wise, I think it holds up. Basically, Peter tried, he did his best but ultimately he measured up a little short and I'm glad he spared himself and the county a long drawn out messy departure.
As for his successor, I think we should look within the county first. If a high quality outsider declares his interest, all well and good and he should be considered but if its just the usual suspect who pop at times like this, I wouldn't be too fussed.
Like the majority of Armagh supporters, Geezer and Grimley are far and away my first choice but I think Geezer will want at least another year to try to win Leinster. If Grimley was willing to come on his own, I think he'd deserve a chance.
Outside of those two, I wouldn't think Donal Murtagh would be interested. Big Joe's name will undoubtedly be linked but I'm not sure he'll be interested. If he is, we could probably do worse. He has proven credentials at the top level which may be something lacking in the eventual contenders. McAlinden would be a bit of a step backwards. I can't dsitinguish his reign from the comments made by Aidan O'Rourke after the Galway match in 2001. Justy McNulty put his name forward for the u21 job and if he wanted the job I'd rather take a chance on him that settle for some mid ranking mercenary from another county or province.
Agree with all of that. Armagh supporters have been living through the glory days with an Ulster title expected year in year out. Joe's shoes were always going to be hard to fill.
Quote from: BroJolly on July 21, 2009, 11:36:40 PM
I think the CB will take their time with this and it could take to October. After all, whats the rush? Personally, I'd like to see Geezer and Big Paul back with the likes of Marsden or McGrane involved. I think Brian McAlinden will be a strong candidate. He did a good job with U21s and thats where last manager came from. Would also like to see Liam McCorry involved in coaching role, but again he works with Ulster council so not sure where that fits in.
Liam McCorry was also part of the u21 set up with armagh this year.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 21, 2009, 08:20:40 PM
We need a complete fresh start, taking JK back would be a big mistake and I wouldnt be so keen on Grimley, nothing against the men themselves but we need a complete fresh start, wipe the slate clean, and build.
I'd like to see someone from outside the county, no ties to the county, no bias, pick the best 15, including 6 forwards!
Canavan is your man ;D
Cant see anyone outside the county getting the job
TBH the money isnt there & for an outside man to come in there would have to be serious potential there, which I dont think there is at the minute
Murtagh has been successful with Cross but I dont think the CB would want another Cross man at the helm so soon & I even doubt he would take it.
Mc Alinden had his chance with the County. He also had at least 1 problem with the Under 21's in the past year which may not have sat well with a few other members of the panel.
Why would Geezer or Grimley come back? They would be on a hiding to nothing within the county unless they got a Sam. They have a great platform with Kildare to build on in the next year or two so would be mad to leave that.
I would prefer to see a young man involved, someone with fresh ideas
Mc Nulty, O Rourke, Marsden, Mc Grane would be up there IMHO
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 21, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 21, 2009, 10:18:03 PM
I think Marsden would be perfect for a role in the new management team.
But I believe that his job in the Ulster council rules him ( and anyone else in the Ulster council for that matter ) out.
I wasn't aware of this, does it only apply for intercounty senior? As I am near sure one of the minor selectors is with the Ulster council.
Employees for the Ulster Council can take on coaching jobs with their own club or county. Rules out Scullion, but Marsden would be ok.
In the IN today Mc Donnell says there were leaks and made up stories being fed to the media from within the camp ??? ???
Quote from: full back on July 22, 2009, 09:29:51 AM
In the IN today Mc Donnell says there were leaks and made up stories being fed to the media from within the camp ??? ???
Souds like an appealing job.
What about Bumpy O'Hagan?. Managed the clans for 4 years and won the div 2 as they had been relegated the year b4, the following year took them to 2nd in the league behind Cross and got to the County final. He also won 2 North Armagh cups. He's currently manager of Glenswilly in Donegal and has improved them immensely and will be hoping for a Donegal senior championship this year.
He would be ideal for the job (although like Marsden is a bit young) and would take no nonsense from anyone nor would he be a "Yes man" to the County Board.
To tell you the truth, picking the next Armagh manager is not an easy task and i wouldn't like to be involved in it. There are too many men out there with average CV's who wouldn't be good for the team and all the best managers are in a job. Someone mentioned "Banty" earlier and he might be a good choice, he's very passinate and knows his football and he wouldn't have that far to travel.
Mc Alinden is the man for the job, as he is the only Armagh manager of recent times with experience of taking over a demoralised team at rock bottom and transforming them into a success story. Also it is possible to learn from mistakes made in a previous era,as Joe showed when he returned in 2002 (after a less than successful previous spell with Paddy Mo in the late 80s early 90s).
Joe has had his day, and we don't want a Art Mc Rory like figure, whom we turn to every three years in a mini crisis, like Tyrone did, and its too early for Mc Geeney and Grimley
Theres a lot of talk that big joe is on his way back!! WHich I have mixed feeling about. I'd like to see a team of mc alinden & rafferty, with maybe marsden or mc grane unvolved
Quote from: T Fearon on July 22, 2009, 09:55:56 AM
Mc Alinden is the man for the job, as he is the only Armagh manager of recent times with experience of taking over a demoralised team at rock bottom and transforming them into a success story. Also it is possible to learn from mistakes made in a previous era,as Joe showed when he returned in 2002 (after a less than successful previous spell with Paddy Mo in the late 80s early 90s).
Joe has had his day, and we don't want a Art Mc Rory like figure, whom we turn to every three years in a mini crisis, like Tyrone did, and its too early for Mc Geeney and Grimley
I think your talking a bit of sense there Tony...McAlinden it is.
I always talk sense. ;D Hope he brings back Barney Canavan also, who I've become really matey with in recent years. ;D
Quote from: full back on July 22, 2009, 09:29:51 AM
In the IN today Mc Donnell says there were leaks and made up stories being fed to the media from within the camp ??? ???
Lovely lads that would do that.
On RTÉ it said that McDonnell would be issuing a statement later on. It gave the clear impression that he as pushed to a large extent.
What's the timeline of events here? Maybe I've this wrong but didn't he meet with the CB last week, and then yesterday - a week later? That suggests that he intimated last week that he wanted to leave and was asked to sleep on it for a week but he remained true to his original stance.
Or, he was told last week to outline the way forward and they'd make a decision on it in a week?
No option but to leave Armagh: McDonnell
Peter McDonnell stepped down as Armagh manager last night.
Citing outside influences for his decision McDonnell said: "It's not a decision we took lightly, but the management team felt there were forces at work that were undermining us at every turn.
"There has been a concerted campaign from the start of this year.
"There were always stories of discontent and splits in the camp which were all fabricated.
"It got to the stage that no matter what we were trying to do, we were being seriously undermined.
"We took on the job with the best of intentions and the vast majority of players were more than honest and there was a genuine desire to succeed, but we didn't have the power to fight those outside influences and ultimately that brought us to our decision."
The Mullaghbawn headmaster said there was a great sense of honesty within the Armagh squad.
"Certain people wanted change that much we weren't going to be part of something that was going to be continually sabotaged," said McDonnell.
"The whole concept of putting Armagh first was blown out of the water with such activities.
"Not a single man on the management team was on the payroll and we felt it better that we take the initiative and stand down rather than stay on and be humiliated."
The reality is that there was a small but vociferous group undermining the entire set up making it impossible for the management committee to operate in such an environment.
Those who have been quick to criticise the Armagh manager should realise there was no mad rush for the job when big Joe Kernan stepped down in the summer of 2007 after losing to Kerry in the All Ireland qualifiers.
In his first year at the managerial helm McDonnell guided the Orchard county to Ulster championship success before losing to Wexford in the All Ireland quarter-final.
Two years ago he led the county to under-21 provincial success before losing out at the semi-final stage to a very impressive Cork outfit.
Long before that he led his native Mullaghbawn to Armagh and Ulster club success.
All that though was quickly forgotten when Armagh crashed out to Monaghan in the All Ireland qualifiers after extra- time in Clones.
Some will argue that the buck stops with the manager, but in playing terms Armagh aren't exactly blessed with an embarrassment of riches at present.
Gerry O'Neill, who led the Orchard County to the 1977 All Ireland final against Dublin, often said that went the team won the players got the credit and they lost the manager took the wrap.
It seems little has changed in the intervening years.
Peter McDonnell served Armagh football well at a difficult time and that should never be forgotten.
And all that time he has remained a humble, honest man and one of great integrity — until last night's departure.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/no-option-but-to-leave-armagh-mcdonnell-14422266.html
I think Peter should be thanked for the time and effort put into the team this past 2 years, from knowing Peter, he put his heart and sole into this team, he tried his utmost and although he would have wanted greater success things did not work out, thanks for an Ulster title,something many Armagh managers in the past failed to deliver.....
As for his successor I think we should be looking outside Joe K and McAlinden, very rarely to you see previous managers coming back as being successful....
Jesus but this is a sad and shocking insight into the state of Armagh GAA at the minute. It begs the question : who other than a lunatic would want to take on the job ??
There has been a concerted campaign from the start of this year.
"There were always stories of discontent and splits in the camp which were all fabricated.
"It got to the stage that no matter what we were trying to do, we were being seriously undermined.
"We took on the job with the best of intentions and the vast majority of players were more than honest and there was a genuine desire to succeed, but we didn't have the power to fight those outside influences and ultimately that brought us to our decision."
The Mullaghbawn headmaster said there was a great sense of honesty within the Armagh squad.
"Certain people wanted change that much we weren't going to be part of something that was going to be continually sabotaged," said McDonnell.
"The whole concept of putting Armagh first was blown out of the water with such activities.
What outside influences is he referring to?
It seems fair to say at this point that McDonnell lost the dressing room. Is this not simply an issue between players and management that "outside influences" had little to do with.
And is it also not fair to say that without other "outside influences" Paul Grimley would have become manager in 2007?
It seems that the same outside influences that got mcdonnell the job originally have been undermining him over the past year. perhaps that was the plan all along?
i heard that he was actually going to name jk and a county board member from cross in his statement in the irish news but appears he backed out.
how did you hear this duffleking?is this another leak?
QuotePeter McDonnell has stepped down as Armagh football manager, citing 'sabotage' from within the county as he reason for doing so.
McDonnell, who had been in charge for two years, claimed last night that he and his selectors Dennis Hollywood, Gary Mallon and Benny O'Kane couldn't continue because "it got to the stage when, no what we were trying to do, we felt we were being undermined".
Stressing that neither the county board or players were responsible for the constant rumours of discontent surrounding the squad, McDonnell said in a parting shot: "We have no issue with the county board and we have no issue with the vast majority of players. It's an issue with certain bodies outside our team and outside our county board.
"We enjoyed the challenge that managing the county senior team presented to us. We felt we were well equipped and up to the task and every man gave his all for the cause. However, from the start of the year, there were stories emanating from sources we found very difficult to identify.
"Articles about people walking away from the panel. There were articles referring to food poisoning and one thing or another. I did try to establish who was furnishing newspapers with this information, but drew a blank. Eventually, we did establish where it was coming from.
"There were stories created, there were fabrications going on, all with the purpose of undermining trust in the group and, indeed, public confidence in the group.
"Yes, there were people who left the panel, yes there were people who were given the choice to walk away or be pushed. The dignified thing is always to say 'it's not for me' and to walk away. We gave people choices.
"The bottom line is that we got the panel we wanted. The panel we had, the players we worked along with, were tremendous and got on very well together. There was a tremendous spirit within the group."
The schoolteacher, who is expected to release a statement in the coming days elaborating on these issues, took over from Joe Kernan in September 2007 and guided the Orchard County to an Ulster SFC title at his first attempt last year.
But after suffering a shock All-Ireland quarter-final loss to Wexford, Armagh failed to make an impression this year with a defeat to Tyrone in the opening round of the Ulster SFC being followed by an extra-time loss to Monaghan in the first round of the All-Ireland qualifiers.
Already, the likes of Brian McAlinden, John Rafferty and even Joe Kernan have been linked with the post. McAlinden guided the under 21s to an Ulster final appearance this year and was joint-manager with Brian Canavan when Armagh won back-to-back Ulster SFC titles in 1999 and 2000.
Rafferty led St. Gall's of Belfast to an All-Ireland club final appearance in 2006, while Kernan was at the helm when Armagh captured their one and only All-Ireland senior crown in 2002.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 22, 2009, 12:24:04 PM
What outside influences is he referring to?
It seems fair to say at this point that McDonnell lost the dressing room. Is this not simply an issue between players and management that "outside influences" had little to do with.
And is it also not fair to say that without other "outside influences" Paul Grimley would have become manager in 2007?
Would it be true to say that the outside influence referred to was actually just in the process of closing the door behind him. Looks a bit messy this for Armagh.... the ghosts of an All Ireland past seems to be lurking. The CB need to get this next appointment right as Armagh as a team are some way off the pace at the moment. A long-sighted appointment is what is needed, not that McDonnell wasn't a good appointment, just the process of appointment appears to have been somewhat flawed.
Quotewe have no issue with the vast majority of players.
???
I presume he must be referring to the culling process from the start of the league til the championship panel was established?
certainly that's what the following would infer...
Quote"There were stories created, there were fabrications going on, all with the purpose of undermining trust in the group and, indeed, public confidence in the group.
"Yes, there were people who left the panel, yes there were people who were given the choice to walk away or be pushed. The dignified thing is always to say 'it's not for me' and to walk away. We gave people choices.
"The bottom line is that we got the panel we wanted. The panel we had, the players we worked along with, were tremendous and got on very well together. There was a tremendous spirit within the group."
Why would JK be plotting against him, seeing as he was (allegedly) responsible for McDonnell getting the job in the first place?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 22, 2009, 01:21:18 PM
Why would JK be plotting against him, seeing as he was (allegedly) responsible for McDonnell getting the job in the first place?
It's a good question but then again why would Lance Armstrong get back into a saddle and ride the Tour again, when his team have a perfectly capable rider leading the team. Sometimes it's very hard for winners to take their final bow and maybe the TV work isn't satisfying Joe's soul as much as he thought it would and what with his stated policy of not taking on another county while his sons were still playing for Armagh, then it leaves him with just one option.... manage Armagh again. I haven't a clue if there is any truth in it or not, just playing devil's advocate.
QuoteWhy would JK be plotting against him, seeing as he was (allegedly) responsible for McDonnell getting the job in the first place?
It seems more plausible that those who opposed McDonnell were undermining him than those in favour. But we don't know and all of these conspiracy theories do no good.
JK was not working against Peter. I was told at Easter that something like this was brewing and who was involved. It is a pity for Peter but I think he was right to walk away from it. Well done for doing your best Peter, the people who wanted you out have no accolades after their name so you have nothing to be ashamed of.
The ambiguous nature of PMcD's statement is going to create more gossip and rumour mongering. Armagh football has continued to wash its dirty linen in public and this shows no sign of ceasing. No doubt people will now want to know exactly who was undermining the management set up.
If the Armagh Couny Board want any advice on how to appoint their new manager then just ask the Donegal County board for some advice, our boys sure know how to handle the whole process from interviews to making a decision to informing the manager, then appointing another manager and so on and so on. ;) By the way how ever said that Bumpy O Hagen was doing a good onb with Glenswilly obviously doesn't know their Donegal football.
Grimley's golden touch
Although he doesn't get all the plaudits, Kildare's second-in-command has been crucial in breathing life back into the Lilywhites
Ewan MacKenna
One day at a time: Kildare's assistant coach Paul Grimley and Kieran McGeeney speak to the Kildare squad in Croke Park after their All Ireland quarter-final defeat to Cork last year inpho/james crombieThe setting might be a little different these days but you'll note it's the same old Paul Grimley. Still the big lump of a man that found himself doing his bit to chisel away at Armagh-Tyrone relations in Omagh in 1989 when the home dressing room was locked, when a pile-up ensued and when he clocked John Lynch without giving it a second thought. Still the soft voice that so easily and often deceives those that have never crossed his path. Still the inner steel that never bent to Joe Kernan and allowed one giant to always provide the other with an honest and invaluable opinion. Still under-appreciated by the masses. Still a number two.
He's sitting in a Newbridge hotel talking at length about the feats of his latest boss Kieran McGeeney. More precisely, when Kernan took over in Armagh he already had a long list of honours streaming behind him but Geezer was a rookie coming to Kildare. However the similarity is the man lurking in the shadows. Armagh players testified to what Grimley brought as an assistant, mentally in terms of his famed speaking and physically in terms of his ruthless training. Kildare players now are not humming the same tune yet strangely many people would fail to pick him from an identity parade and a google search won't get you past page eight.
"That I'm not the manager has been mentioned to me a number of times," he says, "and it has never been a problem for me. A lot of guys who were number twos went on to be managers but I've no great desire for that. I'm happy working with Kieran, I'm happy in Kildare. The most important thing for me is we work as a team. I only ever wanted one management job. I didn't get it. So I'm happy here."
The job he refers to is Armagh. By the end of 2006, himself and Kernan are said to have fallen out over what former players describe as the use of Stephen Kernan. The player's father felt he should start the Ulster semi-final with Fermanagh. Grimley thought it was too much pressure for the youngster and maintained he'd be better used as a substitute. It saw the disintegration of a management team that had conquered all before them but by 2008 Joe Kernan was gone and Grimley fancied his chances of being Armagh manager.
After spending a year coaching Cavan, he'd gotten word of the massive swell of support for his appointment from the clubs back home, quit the Cavan role because he thought it would be unfair on them to continue and then found out it was all for nothing. Peter McDonnell was given the nod and although he's keen to point out he has a lot of time for McDonnell and doesn't want in any way to play with an already fiery situation, it's impossible to tell his present without delving into his past.
"It hurt me immensely. Still to this day. I'm very sensitive about it. I'm not the most emotional person but if that was on a one-to-10 scale, it's 10. Without pointing fingers here it left a taste that might never go away. But I never turned around and gave the impression I had the right to get the job in front of any other man. I had to go through the proper procedures but the way certain individuals behaved towards me was the most upsetting. After years with them I deserved better.
"People came to me after and gave me each side of the story but I have to take that with a pinch of salt too because the main antagonists in this whole thing were once very close to me. One of the things that really put the nail in the coffin was that my brother rang me at 8.40 to tell me the announcement was on teletext. I hadn't been told at that stage. When something is very close to you and you've soldiered with people for so long and then you find the way they go about their business, it's very difficult. But I suppose this Kildare experience has helped the healing."
When McGeeney threatened to quit playing the game over what had gone on, Grimley asked for a quiet word and told him he'd be a long time retired and that he should go on. But minds had already been made up. And when McGeeney got wind of a job in Kildare, Grimley was the first person he contacted. The two came together to meet their new squad late in 2007 and Grimley noticed similarities with his first night meeting the Armagh panel way back in 2001.
"When I got together with Joe we met the fellas in Newry and I saw a bunch of players that were fed up coming second because they were winners. With Kildare, it was like that too. I was looking at a team that had been through a lot and maybe underachieved even more so than Armagh back then. It was packed with household names in a national sense and maybe I was looking at players who could have had medals but never got them. They'd a good way with them, well-mannered, good attitude, prepared to listen and prepared to work.
"But for myself and Kieran and Niall [Carew, selector] the first year was as much a learning curve for us as it was for them adapting to our way of thinking. When we got relegated in the league, we realised it was going to take two or three years to get where we wanted to go. When we lost to Wicklow in the championship we realised we were trying to make an Ulster team out of them and that model doesn't work everywhere. These guys had their own identity and qualities that the Armagh team hadn't. We had to get the common denominator, weld it all together and create a team that was capable of going to the top and staying there. We're probably on the second leg of that journey."
Oisín McConville is convinced Grimley's two favourite words in the English language are tackle and grid, the latter referring to the three-on-three games he set up in small squares that gave Armagh their granite edge. Grimley began to see that same intensity in training this year with Kildare and is convinced they now have the honesty to succeed and no longer have the hiding places to hold them back. His only surprise is how quickly it's all happened.
Then again, he shouldn't be. While the northern attitude may have failed on the pitch for Kildare, it's helped them endlessly off it. Grimley and McGeeney introduced a fine of €20 for any player not in the dressing room a half an hour prior to start time; they brought in former rugby international Willie Anderson to talk to the players, just as Armagh had done in the late 1990s, and were forced to admit their faults, strengths and opinions on teammates openly; they went out more often; they had a Christmas party this year in Time, Naas; they even began a charity white-collar boxing tournament.
"With me and Kieran, he'd ask me about certain things and I'd give him an opinion straight up. We mightn't like what we say to each other but it's always straight and the one thing about McGeeney is there's no behind backs, he doesn't talk with both sides of his mouth. All that makes the friendship extremely strong and a management team really strong. And all these things we did, it was to help the players bond, get their friendship really strong. It has helped us along, that togetherness and the players now socialise together which is fine. It's led to harder training, honesty from guys on the field, they are honest with each other. Everything is going really well."
In fact just about the only thing Kildare have been troubled by is referees. After the 27-8 free-count against Wexford, they invited that day's official Cormac Reilly to a training session. "The best thing that should be happening is giving referees a wider role. They should be coming to training sessions. The likes of this big game on Sunday, why couldn't he come into us on a Tuesday and them on a Thursday, give all the players a rundown of what he expects? And I do believe referees on the back of that should be semi-professional."
Perhaps one for the future, but as for today? "I think these boys have started something off, have turned a corner no matter what happens on Sunday. I feel within the next five years these guys have All Ireland potential. My job is to support Kieran and Kieran will stay on here as long as they want him. We got three years, it's up next year and we'll see from there but this is no stepping stone for some other job. This is a side we want to take to the top."
Belief, passion, success and a surge towards the top. It's still the same old Paul Grimley alright.
emackenna@tribune.ie
July 12, 2009
http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/jul/12/grimleys-golden-touch/ (http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/jul/12/grimleys-golden-touch/)
I think it would be a mistake if JK goes back. His legacy is intact- going back and failing would undermine that. This is a total rebuild job in contrast to the team he took over.
For the sake of his sons he shouldn't go back.
Heard good things about Rafferty - maybe they should look at him.
QuoteFor the sake of his sons he shouldn't go back.
Absolutely agree. The sons are good enough to be on the panel, but their involvement will always be contentious if the Da is managing the team.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 22, 2009, 04:31:38 PM
QuoteFor the sake of his sons he shouldn't go back.
Absolutely agree. The sons are good enough to be on the panel, but their involvement will always be contentious if the Da is managing the team.
Exactly- which is why I feel he won't go back. Lose a game and thats the first thing that will be dragged up.
really dont get the rafferty support, he is a blood and guts man give him 5/6 years to build up his experience, we need a guy to nuture talent coming through, ie i expect mc keown etc to join from cross together with some u-21s( we had the beating of down in the final this year)
would like grimley/mc alinden together .
jk is not the man at the moment as i would like to see all his sons develop without any pressure from the supporters because of who they are
Honestly dont believe Mc Alinden is the man for the job
His man mangement skills arent what they should be
Don't forget Armagh will play Kildare in division 2 of the 2010 league. Does anyone think Joe Kernan would set himself up as the new Armagh manager for a good hiding from Grimley and Geezer? I think nothing could be more satisfying from Grimley's perspective.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 22, 2009, 04:54:12 PM
Don't forget Armagh will play Kildare in division 2 of the 2010 league. Does anyone think Joe Kernan would set himself up as the new Armagh manager for a good hiding from Grimley and Geezer? I think nothing could be more satisfying from Grimley's perspective.
Armagh would bate them.
The statement about geezer being straightforward and not talking out of both sides of his mouth speaks volumes, I know there is no love lost between he and Geezer and Joe but I find it hard to believe that Grimley getting denied the Armagh job had nothing to do with big Joe.
I don't want Kernan anywhere near the Armagh job, thanks for the memories Joe but I would take Grimley over ye any day at this stage, how can you manage a team with 20% of the starting 15 being your sons? there would be too much percieved favourtism there and it could be valid.
We need to sort this shite out now, get the new man in place and support him and any man that is undermining the county team should be run from county football and club football for that matter, this has got to end.
bumpy o hagan think thats a ridiculous idea.
seems to be a difficult one with no stand out candidate.
jk would have nothing to gain from coming back. inherited a successful team from the brians, took armagh over the finish line a legend. why would he come back to a team that needs rebuilt and tarnish his reputation. added to the fact that now 4 of his sons are currently on the panel.
mcalinden as stated was in a similiar position. built a team from scratch, to be real contenders though couldnt get them over the line. questions have been asked about man management skills. would he come back again?
peter rafferty took the u21s to ai success is he the man to develop the current team?
john rafferty took st.galls to ai final in 06. age and experience may be a factor?
justy mc nulty if not offered u21job, be difficult to see him getting the senior job? Also connections with current players may not be good if what peter is saying is true.
grimley. would have to swallow alot of pride to take the job. bound to be hurting after what happened the last time.
geezer, the type of strong charachter that we need. experience could be questioned? however, his desire, passion and attitude cannot. will def manage armagh someday but i think he has a job to do at kildare and will follow this through.
thanks peter for your time, commitment and ulster title. the job was a thankless one trying to follow on from joe, never mind the controvosy surrounding the appointment. however your downfall will be that after last years defeat to wexford you didnt learn from your mistakes. the more attacking gameplan never materialised and 70 mins without a score from play isnt good enough no mtter who you are. i hope whatever candidate is selected the cb use a fair appointment process and doesnt have to inherit the difficult situation peter appears to have
Lads just a question. From reading the last few pages, the impression given is that big Joe inherited a squad built by the 2 Brians, fine tuned it
and won the AI in 2002. Would Joe not be capable of building another squad himself, capable of competing & possibly winning another AI. I think
I read somewhere that Joe's biggest regret was in not winning a second title. would this not be the chance for him to prove himself once more?
OK it might go pear shaped for him, but then again it might not.
We are four to five years away from challenging for an AI title, we need to lose some of the old guard and inject some new blood into the team, we are short on pace and scoring forwards, we are reliant on two main men and that is not going to work in todays game, everyone needs to contribute.
Joe coming back would be a step in the wrong direction and would serve no purpose except to ensure his sons play a lot, we will not seriously compete for Sam for a few years yet so why would he come back to rebuild, it is hardly his M.O.
Neil Smyth.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on July 22, 2009, 07:58:22 PM
Lads just a question. From reading the last few pages, the impression given is that big Joe inherited a squad built by the 2 Brians, fine tuned it
and won the AI in 2002. Would Joe not be capable of building another squad himself, capable of competing & possibly winning another AI. I think
I read somewhere that Joe's biggest regret was in not winning a second title. would this not be the chance for him to prove himself once more?
OK it might go pear shaped for him, but then again it might not.
Big joe wont touch this with a barge pole at this stage. Too shrewd. Got out when he knew the good times were overe, with alot of the old warriors stepping aside, and thos that didnt had their best days behind them. In 2-3 years poss if progress is made, there is no doubt he will be back on board.
One thing for sure is that his pawmarks will be over the next appointment, although county board coffers might not be in great shape so high profile outsider might not be on.
Be hard to attract an inside man as well considering the politics invloved, and considering how Mc Donnell has been so quickly shafted!!
Quote from: illdecide on July 22, 2009, 09:44:41 AM
What about Bumpy O'Hagan?. Managed the clans for 4 years and won the div 2 as they had been relegated the year b4, the following year took them to 2nd in the league behind Cross and got to the County final. He also won 2 North Armagh cups. He's currently manager of Glenswilly in Donegal and has improved them immensely and will be hoping for a Donegal senior championship this year.
He would be ideal for the job (although like Marsden is a bit young) and would take no nonsense from anyone nor would he be a "Yes man" to the County Board.
To tell you the truth, picking the next Armagh manager is not an easy task and i wouldn't like to be involved in it. There are too many men out there with average CV's who wouldn't be good for the team and all the best managers are in a job. Someone mentioned "Banty" earlier and he might be a good choice, he's very passinate and knows his football and he wouldn't have that far to travel.
LOL Thats the best one I've heard in a long time. Clans have more chance of winning the Armagh Championship that Glenswilly do of winning Donegal. Ask anyone in Donegal about O'Hagan, There is world war III going on in Glenswilly at the minute
Joe has nothing to prove. Nothing to gain. All to lose.
Look at Jack O'Connor.
Sad to read coments about sabotage today. Don't know Peter, but he appears a man who is very genuine. Also, the back room guys are all Armagh through and through.
Can't understand some of the negativity around JK also. He won us an All Ireland FFS. One interesting thing about Joes time was there was never any stories came outside the camp. Obviously not true in current squad.
Still having Bumpy as manager cheered me up. His good nature would quell the dressing room ;D :D
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on July 22, 2009, 07:58:22 PM
Lads just a question. From reading the last few pages, the impression given is that big Joe inherited a squad built by the 2 Brians, fine tuned it
and won the AI in 2002. Would Joe not be capable of building another squad himself, capable of competing & possibly winning another AI. I think
I read somewhere that Joe's biggest regret was in not winning a second title. would this not be the chance for him to prove himself once more?
OK it might go pear shaped for him, but then again it might not.
There are a few reasons why I wouldn't like to see JK back at the helm. Firstly, I'm not in the camp that believes all his son's are County standard. Good club footballers absolutely, but apart from Aaron, the rest have still to prove themselves - just my opinion! Secondly, I feel that some of JK's decisions actually cost us All-Irelands in the past, remember him taking McGeeney off and Sean Cavanagh running through the middle of us like a physic as a result. I think big Joe stayed at least two years too long and I feel that was more to ensure his son's had a smooth transition than what was best for Armagh football.
Having said that, there are many things I respect JK for. He's undoubtedly an Armagh man and his statement that he would never go to another county deserves high respect, whether or not this means so long as his son's are playing is something to be seen, however, if it proves true in the long run, it is to be greatly admired.
If PmcD is correct about all the 'sabotage' then we as Armagh Gael's deserve to know exactly whats happening and where. This cloak and dagger stuff has to stop if we're to build a strong County team. Too many ego's around our County - time to de-weed and call the shots as they are. Thats been the problem for too long. As grimley says, too many people talking out of both sides of their mouth, we need a bit of straightness and honesty for a change, maybe PMcD's legacy won't be forgotten afterall!!! ;)
Quote from: Joxer on July 22, 2009, 11:44:38 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 22, 2009, 09:44:41 AM
What about Bumpy O'Hagan?. Managed the clans for 4 years and won the div 2 as they had been relegated the year b4, the following year took them to 2nd in the league behind Cross and got to the County final. He also won 2 North Armagh cups. He's currently manager of Glenswilly in Donegal and has improved them immensely and will be hoping for a Donegal senior championship this year.
He would be ideal for the job (although like Marsden is a bit young) and would take no nonsense from anyone nor would he be a "Yes man" to the County Board.
To tell you the truth, picking the next Armagh manager is not an easy task and i wouldn't like to be involved in it. There are too many men out there with average CV's who wouldn't be good for the team and all the best managers are in a job. Someone mentioned "Banty" earlier and he might be a good choice, he's very passinate and knows his football and he wouldn't have that far to travel.
LOL Thats the best one I've heard in a long time. Clans have more chance of winning the Armagh Championship that Glenswilly do of winning Donegal. Ask anyone in Donegal about O'Hagan, There is world war III going on in Glenswilly at the minute
How's he going down in Glenswilly then Joxer??? ;D
Read today IN and you'll find out.. Have relations in that part of the world and they say it's a bit of a mess up there.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan-never-say-never-14424797.html
Joe Kernan: Never say never!
Thursday, 23 July 2009
Where is the loneliest place in the world? Standing on the touchline as a manager when your team is engaged in a high-intensity championship battle.
Believe me, it is pressure personified — and it's one of the reasons why there is such a high turnover of county team bosses throughout the country as a whole.
Peter McDonnell, who has just stood down as Armagh manager after two years, will certainly not be the last managerial casualty of the summer.
The Mullaghbawn man has taken his leave in somewhat acrimonious circumstances — and the rumour mill is already fully operational in relation to the identity of his successor.
Peter brought honesty and dedication to the post but results of late did not go his way and he clearly felt he could not continue, given all the current circumstances.
County team management is now a 24/7, high-pressure, hugely demanding role — let no-one tell you differently. There is little doubt that others, after a period of reflection perhaps, will adopt the line Peter has taken simply because the demand for success can be almost overpowering.
Management requires massive self-sacrifice, a very single-minded approach — and particularly thick skin. The Armagh county board has already commenced a trawl for Peter's successor knowing that fans are anxious to see their team ascend the ladder to the top again. But patience is the prime requisite just now — and perhaps lots of it.
It's two years since I vacated the orchard county post and, having had the chance to see things from the outside as it were, I wonder how I managed to survive for so long simply because of the demands the post makes on you.
I remain Armagh's most fervent follower, of course — with fours sons in this year's squad that's hardly surprising, is it?
The two teams that matter most to me are my club Crossmaglen Rangers and my county Armagh and I have had the wonderful privilege of managing both of them and in the process working with some of the finest players of their generation.
Within the past 24 hours I have literally been bombarded with just one question — would you take over as Armagh manager again?
The answer to that at this point in time must be 'no'. I have just started a sports-orientated business which in the present harsh economic climate requires my full attention, I obviously have family commitments, I am busy with my media pursuits and I relish what little 'me' time there is after that!
And, let's be straight, there are other reasons why I would not exactly be jumping into a queue for the post. I am acutely aware that there are always bigots and jealous individuals keen to throw in their tuppenceworth and generally vent their jaundiced views. We have all experienced them, haven't we? Everyone has a right to an opinion, of course, as long as its balanced and fair.
Irrespective of family affiliations or other considerations, I have always done what I believed to have been in the best interests of my club and county when I was in charge.
Then there is the almost insatiable desire for success on the part of the fans. They pay good money to attend games and naturally expect positive results. But some tend to live in a dream world. Championship football tends to be like the Stock Market — past performance is no guarantee of future gains. A lot of effort can be expended with little return but that goes with the territory.
The quest for glory must always be tempered with the realisation that not all county teams are comprised of extremely gifted players.
Armagh face into a transitional period but the fact that a number of players from a talented Under 21 squad are beginning to come through at senior level coupled with the acquisition of the Ulster Minor title at the weekend certainly offers considerable hope for the future at senior level.
Whoever takes over at the Armagh helm will undoubtedly be afforded the chance to work with an enthusiastic, ambitious group of players all of whom are keen to do their county proud at whatever level they perform.
Bringing the best out of them will be the brief of Peter McDonnell's successor, whoever he may be. But never say never!
Quote from: PatDaly on July 23, 2009, 04:41:30 AM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/columnists/joe-kernan-never-say-never-14424797.html
Joe Kernan: Never say never!
Thursday, 23 July 2009
Where is the loneliest place in the world? Standing on the touchline as a manager when your team is engaged in a high-intensity championship battle.
Believe me, it is pressure personified — and it's one of the reasons why there is such a high turnover of county team bosses throughout the country as a whole.
Peter McDonnell, who has just stood down as Armagh manager after two years, will certainly not be the last managerial casualty of the summer.
The Mullaghbawn man has taken his leave in somewhat acrimonious circumstances — and the rumour mill is already fully operational in relation to the identity of his successor.
Peter brought honesty and dedication to the post but results of late did not go his way and he clearly felt he could not continue, given all the current circumstances.
County team management is now a 24/7, high-pressure, hugely demanding role — let no-one tell you differently. There is little doubt that others, after a period of reflection perhaps, will adopt the line Peter has taken simply because the demand for success can be almost overpowering.
Management requires massive self-sacrifice, a very single-minded approach — and particularly thick skin. The Armagh county board has already commenced a trawl for Peter's successor knowing that fans are anxious to see their team ascend the ladder to the top again. But patience is the prime requisite just now — and perhaps lots of it.
It's two years since I vacated the orchard county post and, having had the chance to see things from the outside as it were, I wonder how I managed to survive for so long simply because of the demands the post makes on you.
I remain Armagh's most fervent follower, of course — with fours sons in this year's squad that's hardly surprising, is it?
The two teams that matter most to me are my club Crossmaglen Rangers and my county Armagh and I have had the wonderful privilege of managing both of them and in the process working with some of the finest players of their generation.
Within the past 24 hours I have literally been bombarded with just one question — would you take over as Armagh manager again?
The answer to that at this point in time must be 'no'. I have just started a sports-orientated business which in the present harsh economic climate requires my full attention, I obviously have family commitments, I am busy with my media pursuits and I relish what little 'me' time there is after that!
And, let's be straight, there are other reasons why I would not exactly be jumping into a queue for the post. I am acutely aware that there are always bigots and jealous individuals keen to throw in their tuppenceworth and generally vent their jaundiced views. We have all experienced them, haven't we? Everyone has a right to an opinion, of course, as long as its balanced and fair.
Irrespective of family affiliations or other considerations, I have always done what I believed to have been in the best interests of my club and county when I was in charge.
Then there is the almost insatiable desire for success on the part of the fans. They pay good money to attend games and naturally expect positive results. But some tend to live in a dream world. Championship football tends to be like the Stock Market — past performance is no guarantee of future gains. A lot of effort can be expended with little return but that goes with the territory.
The quest for glory must always be tempered with the realisation that not all county teams are comprised of extremely gifted players.
Armagh face into a transitional period but the fact that a number of players from a talented Under 21 squad are beginning to come through at senior level coupled with the acquisition of the Ulster Minor title at the weekend certainly offers considerable hope for the future at senior level.
Whoever takes over at the Armagh helm will undoubtedly be afforded the chance to work with an enthusiastic, ambitious group of players all of whom are keen to do their county proud at whatever level they perform.
Bringing the best out of them will be the brief of Peter McDonnell's successor, whoever he may be. But never say never!
et tu Brute....... this is better than Julius Ceasar
According to Radio Ulster this morning, Joe Kernan has no intention of taking the Armagh job, for 2 reasons. His business commitments take up too much of his time, & the fact that he has 4 sons on the panel.
To be fair to big Joe, his back room team was top notch! - I hope whoever does take the job, is able to assemble a similarly strong coaching team.
On a side note, I think Peter McDonnell would have been a better #2 to someone like big Joe...
Unfortunately for whoever takes over the Armagh job, if they don't win an All Ireland within a year then they will be regarded as a failure. This can be seen by the rumour mill that Damien Cassidy was quitting in Derry and that he wasn't up to the job, after less than 12 months in charge. The CB, if they intellectually capable of thinking in this manner,have to appoint someone with a three to five year remit to win an All Ireland and then give him the tools and the support to do so and they need to steadfastly stick to this plan, regardless of what the experts in the media may be preaching. After all, there isn't a guy working in the media who doesn't have some sort of an agenda or another. Alas few CB have that sort of vision, especially in counties where they feel they should be in AI semis each year. At the start of this decade, Armagh were blessed with a talented group of players who gained experience under the two Brians and then had the finishing touches applied by big Joe. That group is gone now and it is a brand new page, and as JK said past glory doesn't guarantee future success. The same will happen to Tyrone in years to come, as happened to Cavan and Down in the past and even Kerry during the late 80s and early 90s.
Quote from: irunthev on July 23, 2009, 08:39:46 AM
Unfortunately for whoever takes over the Armagh job, if they don't win an All Ireland within a year then they will be regarded as a failure.
:o :o :o
Jaysus! I can understand being beat by Monaghan aet being seen as a failure but landing Sam is setting up for failure.
Quote from: irunthev on July 23, 2009, 08:39:46 AM
Unfortunately for whoever takes over the Armagh job, if they don't win an All Ireland within a year then they will be regarded as a failure.
Anyone that doesnt believe Armagh are a minimum 3 year project is in dream land. We want progress, and if the fans see that every year they will give a new manager a fair crack of the whip.
Loosing Dyas to Australia didnt help either.
Another view is that the next All-Ireland is 20-30 years away.
Quote from: Orior link=topic=13061.msg600637#msg600637 date=1248336054
b]Another view is that the next All-Ireland is 20-30 years away. [/b]
Dont know about that, but we can be sure it wont be in the next 3/4 years
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 09:00:54 AM
Loosing Dyas to Australia didnt help either.
Another view is that the next All-Ireland is 20-30 years away.
Ah well, at least its not light years
Quote from: maddog on July 23, 2009, 09:05:45 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 09:00:54 AM
Loosing Dyas to Australia didnt help either.
Another view is that the next All-Ireland is 20-30 years away.
Ah well, at least its not light years
Fix up your avatar there doggie. Nice doggie. Good doggie.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 09:18:07 AM
It's never the defeat but the manner and the context of it. The way that the team were not prepared for a predictable Monaghan challenge which required physicality and fitness to survive. No team prepared in the previous 10 years would have allowed themselves to be bullied and bossed all over the field and no team would have been so unfit. All aspects which lie with preparation both mentally and physically.
I don't undersand what your saying.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Where does the belief and system come from? The management.
I'd say a competetive County Champioship plays a big part in it. The price of success of Crossmaglen must be paid soewhere.
Quote from: Zapatista on July 23, 2009, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Where does the belief and system come from? The management.
I'd say a competetive County Champioship plays a big part in it. The price of success of Crossmaglen must be paid soewhere.
Dont agree with this at all
When Armagh were winning plenty from 2000 on, Cross were the dominant force as they are now, so it hadnt any effect on the county team then, same as it hasnt any effect now IMHO
Quote from: full back on July 23, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on July 23, 2009, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Where does the belief and system come from? The management.
I'd say a competetive County Champioship plays a big part in it. The price of success of Crossmaglen must be paid soewhere.
Dont agree with this at all
When Armagh were winning plenty from 2000 on, Cross were the dominant force as they are now, so it hadnt any effect on the county team then, same as it hasnt any effect now IMHO
It does however contribute to a mentality of not believing it is possible to win. If you have entered your Championship year in year out for the past ten years or so and the same team has won it each time (and its not your team), the mind starts to tell you that you aren't a winner. You carry that mindset into the county arena too.
Quote from: irunthev on July 23, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
Quote from: full back on July 23, 2009, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on July 23, 2009, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Where does the belief and system come from? The management.
I'd say a competetive County Champioship plays a big part in it. The price of success of Crossmaglen must be paid soewhere.
Dont agree with this at all
When Armagh were winning plenty from 2000 on, Cross were the dominant force as they are now, so it hadnt any effect on the county team then, same as it hasnt any effect now IMHO
It does however contribute to a mentality of not believing it is possible to win. If you have entered your Championship year in year out for the past ten years or so and the same team has won it each time (and its not your team), the mind starts to tell you that you aren't a winner. You carry that mindset into the county arena too.
C'mon lads, in fairness that is bollocks
When Armagh were successful, not one person was saying Cross winning the championship/AI year in year out is doing us harm, quite the opposite in fact
We are looking for scapegoats here to blame for the decline of the county team
Cross winning everything isnt the reason for this decline
When the 2002 team took the field there was an swagger/arrogance/self belief about them. I think it stemmed from the Cross boys, and in particular the McEntees.
IMHO (which I rate very higly), we've never had that swagger since John and Tony left the panel.
We all have our own opinions on it but given the choice I'd say competetive club football is better for a county.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 10:00:47 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 09:57:29 AM
When the 2002 team took the field there was an swagger/arrogance/self belief about them. I think it stemmed from the Cross boys, and in particular the McEntees.
IMHO (which I rate very higly), we've never had that swagger since John and Tony left the panel.
Unbelieveable! I was just about to post that the decline began with the loss of the McEntees. Cross self belief was carried into the county by the players and JK. Thier club success was a platform for county success.
The same can be said of the current Tyrone set up, as the players took so much self belief with them from the under age success they had. It is certainly a key factor... self belief. You can physically and tactically prepare a guy as much as you like, but if he doesn't believe that he is a winner then you are wasting your time. Most of the top 16 county teams have a fair degree of talent, they all train exactly the same, do the same weights and gym work and do similar ball training, play in the same Nat League competition, the difference is, most of them don't really believe they can win. Success breeds success.
Quote from: irunthev on July 23, 2009, 10:20:53 AM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 10:00:47 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 09:57:29 AM
When the 2002 team took the field there was an swagger/arrogance/self belief about them. I think it stemmed from the Cross boys, and in particular the McEntees.
IMHO (which I rate very higly), we've never had that swagger since John and Tony left the panel.
Unbelieveable! I was just about to post that the decline began with the loss of the McEntees. Cross self belief was carried into the county by the players and JK. Thier club success was a platform for county success.
The same can be said of the current Tyrone set up, as the players took so much self belief with them from the under age success they had. It is certainly a key factor... self belief. You can physically and tactically prepare a guy as much as you like, but if he doesn't believe that he is a winner then you are wasting your time. Most of the top 16 county teams have a fair degree of talent, they all train exactly the same, do the same weights and gym work and do similar ball training, play in the same Nat League competition, the difference is, most of them don't really believe they can win. Success breeds success.
Regardless, Cross winning the county championship has nothing to do with the demise of the county team
There is quite a bit of rose tinted glasses now where the mcentees are concerned. John was a focal point of that team but was forever being criticised for being combersome, drifting out of games and slowing down the speed of attacks. Tony only ever made the starting 15 for armagh in 2003 if memory serves me correctly?
As ever, players will get better as time goes on.
Glad to have missed so many pages of this lads. Where is any of this whataboutary going to get McDonnell and more importantly what is it going to do for armagh football?
McDonnell obviously has an axe to grind (rumour mill in full swing) but washing armagh's dirty linen in public is only prolonging his own agony and defacing armagh football imho.
Joe Kernan has ruled himself out of a return to the manager's job in Armagh.
Armagh are in the hunt for a new boss after Peter McDonnell stepped down, but Kernan cited work commitments as his reason for declining the chance to return.
'In one way, I'd love to go back but I'm just involved with a business project and I'm putting all my energies into that,' he said in hoganstand.com.
'But whoever gets the job, there's a great bunch of young lads there. They're young and enthusiastic and certainly he (the new manager) won't be going in starting from scratch.'
He went on: 'I was very lucky to work with my club and my county. I do believe that with all the young boys who are there, we have a good future. But at this minute in time, I would have to say no.
'I'm going to look after my business. We've got a lot of very big contracts and I think it's time for me to look after myself.'
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
QuoteJust the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
The point is that these players might not supplant a Tyrone player, but they could still be comparable to them. Tyrone have a system where everyone knows that they are expected to do and players have grown within that. Tyrone have a few players that are the best in the country, but many are not in a different class than other intercounty players, just in a better class of system.
Armagh in 1999-2002 had to rise from a low level, the present team all have Ulster medals, AI U-21 medals and the like. Armagh does not have the population of Kerry and will not win AIs every year, but can stay within striking distance of one.
doubt very much if kevin o'rourke, steven kernan or brian mallon would make the tyrone squad
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 23, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 09:00:54 AM
Loosing Dyas to Australia didnt help either.
Another view is that the next All-Ireland is 20-30 years away.
That is a real possibility.
On the other hand the difference between the best and the chasing pack is not as great as some would like to think. Part of it is about making others think the gap is much greater than it is and that they lack the belief. Armagh were masters of this for quite a few years from 2002. With the right ingredients, a squad of relatively modest players built around a system in which they believe, who can operate it without thinking and with a few high quality players can beat anyone, e.g. Tyrone. Where does the belief and system come from? The management.
History suggests that Armagh produce a team that is capable of chalenging at the highest level every 25 years or so. It is possible that we could face that sort of wait again but I think we have the potential to ensure it isn't that long.
Do people think the new manager should also have control of the u21 team? Also, and I genuinely mean no harm to Crossmaglen when I say this, but I hope they aren't involved in the All Ireland series past Christmas this year. Missing so many players for the majority of the league seriously hinders the development of a side for the championship. For example, had McDonnell been able to blood Paul Kernan into the team during the league this year, we may not have have had the Aidan O'Rourke debacle.
its true that we seem to develop top teams every 25 years or so, but i think that is not going to be the case anymore. As everyone knows, the development of youth in Armagh has been brutally undervalued since the beginning of the association. However, in recent years we have made giant strides in this respect. When you consider we only won our first U-21 Ulster 11-12 years ago, the transformation has been marked. More U-21's have since followed, as have minor titles and we have a particularly good crop this year (the U-21s cruelly robbed of the Ulster as well). I think this bodes for a more frequently successful future than in past cycles. Also, we have neve experienced sustained success as we have done over the past few years. young players in the panel used to have to wait years to compete in their first Ulster or whatever, but this current crop of players, virtually every single on has some sort of Ulster medal.
Of course this does not guaratee success - look at the fortunes of the Down senior team in recent years. However, I do think that if our renewed professionalism with regard to proper development squads throughout all underage groups contiues, it will breed better minor, U21 and senior squads.
Stevie McDonnell or Charlie Vernon would not get on the Tyrone team. Ronan Clarke would, and possibly Andy Mallon.
If Peter Mc Donnell was manager of any one of at least 20 other counties in Ireland and won a provincial championship for them he would be a hero or if he had been manager of Armagh in the mid nineties and won the ulster title he would also have been deemed a hero.
Unfortunately for peter the success of Armagh in the last decade has left fans with unrealistically high expectations.
I am convinced that regardless of who took over Armagh in 2008 they would struggle to satisfy those expectations.
Armagh have lost 13 or 14 quality player over the last couple of years and these boys cannot be replaced overnight.
Peter is a good manager but was unlucky to take over when most of Armaghs good players were coming to the end of their careers.
Not many managers have won Ulster tiles at under 21, senior and club level.
Thanks peter and hopefully you will make a return sometime when expectations are not so high
But it wasn't fan pressure or unrealistic expectations that forced Mc Donnell out. Lets face it all managers at every level, in very code,have to deal with unrealistic expectations to a degree.Is there a county manager who has not been vilified on this Board for example?
I think Mc Donnell should elaborate as to the precise reasons why he left, and name those who undermined him and exactly what they did. It seems like these are the people that need to be cleared out before any new manager is appointed.
By the way Oisin seems to hve been fairly scathing and personal in his criticism of Mc Donnell in his various newspaper columns since the Monaghan defeat. Is this just sour grapes because he wasn't selected last year or is it something deeper?
Quote from: T Fearon on July 23, 2009, 02:12:15 PM
By the way Oisin seems to hve been fairly scathing and personal in his criticism of Mc Donnell in his various newspaper columns since the Monaghan defeat. Is this just sour grapes because he wasn't selected last year or is it something deeper?
Oisin is saying what a large amount of supporters are saying, just many of them dont have the platform to say it.
Most of the other commentators/analysts sit on the fence & wont say fcuk all wrong
At least he is calling it as he see's it
Quote from: crossfire on July 23, 2009, 02:05:33 PM
If Peter Mc Donnell was manager of any one of at least 20 other counties in Ireland and won a provincial championship for them he would be a hero or if he had been manager of Armagh in the mid nineties and won the ulster title he would also have been deemed a hero.
Unfortunately for peter the success of Armagh in the last decade has left fans with unrealistically high expectations.
I am convinced that regardless of who took over Armagh in 2008 they would struggle to satisfy those expectations.
Armagh have lost 13 or 14 quality player over the last couple of years and these boys cannot be replaced overnight.
Peter is a good manager but was unlucky to take over when most of Armaghs good players were coming to the end of their careers.
Not many managers have won Ulster tiles at under 21, senior and club level.
Thanks peter and hopefully you will make a return sometime when expectations are not so high
he lost his last 3 championship matches. that is fact. how is it unrealistic to expect someone to manage a team full of medal winners to win even 1 match in 2009? nobody called for his head when we were out of ulster, nobody expected an All Ireland - top 8/12 was the ambition. How is that unrealistic?
We were absolutely disgraceful against Monaghan performance wise. For my part the performance rather than the result spelt the end.
A terrible performance against a team who were put out at the next hurdle by a team who were then put out at the next hurdle to a Donegal team who in all probability will be put out in the next hurdle.Give over with talk of over expectation please as what the vast majority of us expected was not trophies, but a change of tack in performance, and a couple of wins with AI Q/F being the height of our hopes for the year.
whilst i dont want to appear churlish
Peter won ulster last year beating cavan, down and fermangh( hardly powerhouses of Ulster football at present)
he also lost to wexford in what many believe was caused by extremely negative tactics
I for one was all for giving him the benefit of the doubt when he said he realised we needed to be more expansive but when the championship came around we were more defensve than ever with a minimum of seven defendrrs playing every game.
I believe that he probably was underminded by elements within the county board and indeed by certain players but it doesnt get away from the fact that it was in everbody`s interests including his own that he resigned and at least in years to come he will be remembered as having won an ulster
I cant see who from within the Co Board would want to undermine McDonnell when they ensured his accession to the throne in hottly contested circumstances in the first place. If McDonnell's 'statement' does see the light of day, I reckon it'll be current and ex-players named as the main culprits of the 'sabotage'.
Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 23, 2009, 05:05:22 PM
I cant see who from within the Co Board would want to undermine McDonnell when they ensured his accession to the throne in hottly contested circumstances in the first place. If McDonnell's 'statement' does see the light of day, I reckon it'll be current and ex-players named as the main culprits of the 'sabotage'.
[/b]
It will hardly be Francie !
Did that Malachy Macken ever make it on the senior Armagh team? He won an u-21 in 04 I think and he looked good that day.
Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM
Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.
Both from South Armagh????
Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM
Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.
I can only assume you are alluding to JK and Hughie. I thought they were central to the installation of PMcD, cant see what's to be gained by them turning Turk?
interview with pmcd 630 rte radio
Quote from: bennydorano on July 23, 2009, 06:10:47 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM
Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.
I can only assume you are alluding to JK and Hughie. I thought they were central to the installation of PMcD, cant see what's to be gained by them turning Turk?
Joe did a number on Grimley, what makes the McDonnell any different?
Quote from: rootthemout on July 23, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
interview with pmcd 630 rte radio
Missed it; did he say anything profound?
He said nothing at all.
http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-drivetime-dri-descahill.smil
Whatever you say, say nothing. Misinformation appearing in press, actual information about team for Monaghan appearing in public. Good relationship with Rangers and Joe Kernan.
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
Of the lads mentioned only Clarke is capable of kicking the ball over the bar from outside the 21 ::)
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
Of the lads mentioned only Clarke is capable of kicking the ball over the bar from outside the 21 ::)
1) I agree with you DC
2) Can you explain your username? Its either incrediblely innovative or just crap.
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
Of the lads mentioned only Clarke is capable of kicking the ball over the bar from outside the 21 ::)
The only ones unable to would be Martin O Rourke, McEvoy - the keeper - and Toner - the midfielder.
So dont talk shit chap!
Nah Corn. Unfortunately he has a point. Possibly different when playing for club.
No he doesn't. For a start how many frees does Aaron Kernan kick over from outside the 21. He is virtually faultless from any angle and distance he's given.
Hope that Peter McD pulls back from his threat of this big statement, as other posters have stated, all the rumours in the papers is a bit of a smokescreen, the reason he has been asked to jump is down to the poor performance of the team not the results. If I hear of "unrealistic expectations" of Armagh fans again I'll box somebody.
Was he asked to jump mackers? did he not jump himself? does the county board statement of regret in accepting his resignation and the fact that they asked him to think on it for a week not indicate that they were for the status quo?
Maybe Ross Carr can apply, hes a free agent now according to the Down thread
Mackers, I'm excluding frees
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 23, 2009, 07:00:51 PM
Quote from: rootthemout on July 23, 2009, 06:27:05 PM
interview with pmcd 630 rte radio
Missed it; did he say anything profound?
He described how prior to the Monaghan game, the actual team and the team tactics ( not the team named for the programme ) was being discussed in a public forum ( whatever that is ). He said that he was looking around the set up to see who was doing the leaking, which led to a breakdown in trust.
He said that he and Donal Murtagh ( describing Murtagh as a gentleman ) had a very good relationship and that there were no difficulties with Crossmaglen and him.
Des made a comment that Joe had sons playing on the team and would have been aware of the tactics and team. Peter said that he was not implying or suggesting that Joe was the person who was responsible for the team being known. But didn't describe Joe as a gentleman.
I listened to the interview and wondered after it was over, why he gave the interview in the first place.
I got the impression that he implied that Joe wouldn't undermine a manager before a game, which seems likely enough. The end result is that he has said the someone was undermining him and that suspicion wasn't helping things but nobody now knows who this was, so there are still rumours going around. Not a good situation.
cannt understand pmcd interview,des was giving him the opportunity to tell who or what let him and the team down,if he has evidence off backstabbing why doesnt he just come out and shame those who wronged him,or is it another smokescreen to deflect attention away from results and performances?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 23, 2009, 10:59:31 PM
I got the impression that he implied that Joe wouldn't undermine a manager before a game, which seems likely enough. The end result is that he has said the someone was undermining him and that suspicion wasn't helping things but nobody now knows who this was, so there are still rumours going around. Not a good situation.
Definitely not a good situation at all.
Which makes me wonder why he made the original statement and proceeded go on the Des Cahill show and increase the suspicions even further. The rumour mill is flying at the minute and is making the situation worse. Fingers of blame are being pointed in all directions.
Listening to P McD's interviews since he took over the Armagh job, a common theme of his comments has been "Whatever bad has happened, it wasn't my fault". Tonight's interview, I thought, carried an element of that sentiment.
Was Mc Donnell right when he said that there were leaks especially about the naming of the team and the tactics regarding the Monaghan match ???
Quote from: orangeman on July 23, 2009, 11:06:41 PM
Was Mc Donnell right when he said that there were leaks especially about the naming of the team and the tactics regarding the Monaghan match ???
Tactics? What tactics? Lol
Well what i do know for a fact is on the wed b4 the Monaghan game they were called into a circle and the team was named but it wasn't the same team selected on the match programme and he explained to the group of players his reasons for this. Obviously the tactics for the game (i know i can hear you saying ...what fecking tactics) were already drilled over in training. Now Monaghan knew all about this from a source within the county setup. So obviously someone filled Banty's ears with Armagh's real team and tactic's...the million dollar question is...who???
To prevent further finger pointing, suspicious minds, bad feeling and general poor relations, IF Mc Donnell knows who was doing the leaking, why doesn't he come out and name and shame the individual(s) responsible ??????
I'm hearing the issue lies with the leaking of the team and particularly the marking jobs.
I have to say that the more this drags on it is looking more and more like a neat diversion from the cold hard facts...
Quote from: orangeman on July 23, 2009, 11:51:22 PM
To prevent further finger pointing, suspicious minds, bad feeling and general poor relations, IF Mc Donnell knows who was doing the leaking, why doesn't he come out and name and shame the individual(s) responsible ??????
Lets say he names some man. or two men. lets say it's a business man or a teacher or a doctor. He'd want to have conclusive proof or he'd be looking at a solicitor's letter.
This is all getting very messy. I hope Peter isn't going to start naming names and settling scores in public. I find it impossible to believe that tactics were leaked to Monaghan. For his own sake as much as anything, I think Peter needs to move on. There's nothing to be gained by going over old ground.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 23, 2009, 05:22:39 PM
Did that Malachy Macken ever make it on the senior Armagh team? He won an u-21 in 04 I think and he looked good that day.
Yep Mal broke into the squad and started a few championship matches in 2006. This last couple of years he's been in the McKenna Cup squads but was dropped last year and left the panel this year after receiving very few chances. Mal has his detractors on here but I think a lot of times for Armagh he's been played completely out of position and has displayed the odd signs of nervousness when playing for the county, making some mistakes he wouldn't usually make. What I will say is that he is a fine fielder of the ball and, in my view is as good a midfielder as there is in club football. I see him playing week in, week out and he's almost always one of our top performers. A player I really think the new management should have another look at though its fair to say midfield is a position we have lots of options in.
ive always thought mal mackin to be a very good player. always plays well against us anyway.
Quote from: orangeman on July 23, 2009, 11:06:41 PM
Was Mc Donnell right when he said that there were leaks especially about the naming of the team and the tactics regarding the Monaghan match ???
The team which actually started (as opposed to the one named in the programme) was posted here on the Wedensday night.
It was Rufus ;D
The way this is panning out it is going to go on for a few months & IMHO going to detract from the search for a successor.
The main concern within the county should now be to get the right man for the job not having a wild goose chase on a whodunnit case
have to say Brendan Crossan pulling no punches today in the Itish News
as far as he is concerned " grimley for the Job"" and i agree
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 24, 2009, 06:44:05 AM
Quote from: orangeman on July 23, 2009, 11:06:41 PM
Was Mc Donnell right when he said that there were leaks especially about the naming of the team and the tactics regarding the Monaghan match ???
The team which actually started (as opposed to the one named in the programme) was posted here on the Wedensday night.
It was Rufus ;D
lol
ARMAGH, FOCUSSING ON THE REAL ISSUE – Peter Makem
(Written prior to Peter McDonnell's resignation as Manager)
There
is no doubt that people are very down regarding the state of the county
senior football team after the performance against Monaghan. I have
never known it to be so depressed since the heavy defeat against Derry
at the Athletic Grounds in 1995. But the current demise of Armagh,
like that of '95 and two decades earlier in 1974, is a much larger
problem than that of a manager. In fact, our depression and anger
whatever it is, is misplaced in my opinion, the manager is largely a
scapegoat for a much, much deeper problem that badly needs to be
addressed.
There is one over-riding reality that we should keep
at the front of our minds. The Armagh senior team as a structure, that
is, the radical new structure that was set up in 1995, after the
collapse in the Athletic Grounds, and brought into life by Brian
McAlinden and Joe Kernan, is totally gone. It formally died its death
in Croke Park last year against Wexford but it was on the way out for
several years previous.
The Armagh revolution that created the
GAA's first ever high-powered professional back-up team, that
introduced the blanket defence into Gaelic Football and brought us our
first ever Sam Maguire, is no more.
What is really missing, and what
we really lamenting, is the absence of a fresh new radical set-up to
replace the one that is gone to create the next great Armagh team.
This has hit us badly in the form of the collapse at Clones. The sad
showing against Monaghan is a symptom of our problem. We have to get
this much clear.
There will be no more Sam Maguire cups
coming to the county unless we repeat the outstanding work of the mid
nineties when the Tactical Support Group was set up and a team was
created to build a team. Within such a structure – as happened before
– we need radical new thinking in the playing of the game, knowing that
a side can only be sure of winning the highest honour if they raise the
bar of possibility higher than it has been raised before. Armagh did
that in the last great adventure.
A manager's success is not
based on his technical ability nor the ability of his players, but on
the existence of a system, a structure in which he and the players can
work and develop. In the following correspondence I will try to
develop this position, and there is strong evidence to support it.
To
use a bit of imagery, if the soil is made fertile, if the land has
become barren, if the ship has become unseaworthy, no impression can be
made, no action is possible. It is part of the natural drift, the
natural growing old of things.
Kerry threw four managers, all
deeply knowledgeable former players, at their problem between 1986 and
the later nineties, but it didn't resolve things. The old days just
would not come back. Down are struggling with the fifteen year gap
since 1994, and Dublin are enduring a similar absence of real success
five managers later. These managers are intelligent, dedicated,
football loving men. Donegal and Derry have put manager after manager
into the scene but the glory years will not return. How many managers
has Antrim sent off to do the impossible? Meath cannot get out of
their barren run. It's over fifty years and probably over twenty
managers later, since Louth won a Leinster title.
Back in the
sixties and early seventies, Armagh had a whole series of managers,
good committed men who knew their football, people such as Mal McEvoy,
Paddy O'Hara, Jimmy Whan, Gerry O'Neill (first time) and Gene Larkin.
But they could make no impression whatsoever. Nor was it a problem of
administration because Armagh had administrators the equal of anybody
in Ireland. It was not a problem of management or administration as
such, but a lack of a system, that is, a well thought out structure
where a group of willing players could be moulded into a unit with a
fresh sense of ambition, adventure and momentum. The Gerry O'Neill who
managed Armagh 1970-72 made little impression. But the same Gerry
O'Neill who agreed to come back in 1974 after a new system had been set
up had the same Armagh players in an All-Ireland final in 1977 and won
two Ulster titles including Armagh first in 24 years. The manager is
only as effective as the structures and system allows.
By 1983,
that momentum had gone. The best efforts of subsequent mangers failed,
not from any lack of ability, or lack of good players, but because the
authorities did not take a deep stock of what was happening and
introduce some new radical thinking, a new system. It is the
responsibility of the County Board, not a manager to create the system
for the Board alone has the resources for such an enterprise.
Traditionally, a manager was thrown at a problem hugely bigger than a
manager can cope with. A solitary man and a few helpers are sent out
to create something that requires a large co-ordinated and motivated
team of people covering every aspect of team development. All he can
do on his own is a patchwork and piecemeal job, fitting the new into
the old, adding on to what he inherited, whereas the whole thing need
to be totally removed and a new structure built from fresh foundations.
Fr
Sean Hegarty knew his football inside out, was completely dedicated to
Armagh and had good players at his disposal. But the system he
inherited was burnt out and he had to work in the void I have
described. Paddy Moriarty and Joe Kernan, who followed also, knew
their football and had the respect of their considerable players, but
again it was a case of manager and players isolated from any new
dynamic. Jim McCorry and John Morrison, both Substantial thinkers
about the game spent four years trying to make something out of
Armagh. They too had very good players at their disposal. But the old
ship Armagh was no longer seaworthy and no matter how excellent the
captain or the crew, they were going to founder. That is what happened
against Derry at the Athletic Grounds in June 1995, the second collapse
in modern times. It was a watershed and it finally, and irrevocable
drew down the curtain on an age that had been on life support for a
long time.
Brian McAlinden, who entered the fray, was a radical
figure in his thinking about the kind of players he would choose and
the type of training they would do. McAlinden and Canavan created a
team of Spartans, of Red Branch Knights. But that on its own was not
enough. The critical thing is that this approach fitted inside a wider
County Board creation at the time as mentioned, the all important and
revolutionary Tactical Support Group, a back-up team amounting to the
GAA's first de-facto professional support team in county football. For
the first time since the collapse of 1974, and the initiative of Tommy
Lynch that same year, another collapse 21 years later led to a radical
new approach. And so the early steps in the creation of the greatest
of all Armagh sides were taken. It would not have happened, not, even
with the same players, had the new structures not been created. Within
this, the radical approach of Brian McAlinden and later Joe Kernan was
possible. It must be remembered that Armagh created the blanket
defence, copied by every other county. Everything between 1996 and the
lifting of the Sam Maguire in this county was radical, not merely for
Armagh, but for Gaelic football. But Armagh never fully resolved the
linkage with the full-forward line when Clarke and McDonnell were
forced to be target men as well as strikers. This meant that while
teams found it hard to score against us, we found it equally hard to
score against them. Despite the revolutionary approach, this ongoing
Achilles heel of linkage in attack arguably meant that we only won a
single All-Ireland instead of a possible three, in 2001, 2002 and
2003. But with Armagh's long and largely barren history of
All-Ireland's one Sam Maguire was an immense achievement, but
fulfilment of a great enterprise.
The revolution began to fade
as far back as 2003 and by 2005; having been almost ten years on the
road, was definitely showing serious cracks. So Armagh, even though we
kept winning in Ulster, were no longer All-Ireland standard, and the
old malaise spoken about previously had set in. The greatest of all
Armagh ships had become unseaworthy and was no longer capable of moving
from A to B.
Peter McDonnell, then, belongs to the long list of
Armagh managers who had to work in the vacuum I have described. He too
is a good manager and knows his football as they all did. He has won a
senior and U-21 and Club Ulster title, but the reality is that there is
no system to manage. He is ploughing a lone furrow like the vast
majority of his predecessors and neither he nor any other individual
will make any real difference as long as they are so isolated. There
is no life left in the Armagh senior set-up and there has been little
life there for a long time. The senior players, the remnant of the old
days, are a tired, ineffective lot. The new and newer players are
infected by this and by the insecurity of their places. There is no
sense of direction. I suggested in an article after the Wexford game
that the time was then ripe for Peter to draw down the curtain totally
on the ancient regime and start with totally new blood. It would have
made some difference in that we would have gone down with a bit more
fight and a bit more hope.
But that's not the kind of hope we
deeply need. We need the hope that will come from the County Board
making a radical move of taking proper stock and using the next five
months to create a totally new structure, another support team, and
working to bring and train players to a radical new level in every
way. We will only get out of the current low point when the County
Board, as in 1974 and 1995, formally set out to generate a new and
great Armagh team.
It is interesting to notice that none of the
younger players who have come into the panel in recent years have
developed or seem to have been tutored at all. They are still as raw,
un-coached, and uncertain as when they came into the side. In fact
some of them seem to have gone back.
It can only be imagined how
they would have been transformed had they went to the Aussie Rules
set-up. I cannot think of one whose game has improved as it should.
Again it takes a wide approach to enable real development to take place.
It
cannot be stressed enough that the problems of Armagh are not solvable
by a manager alone. The manager is the final things in the equation,
not the first. If Armagh were to bring in the greatest managerial
genius in Ireland, whoever that is, he would make no great difference
unless everything else was right.
The late Paddy O'Hara once
told me that he could make on impression with Armagh at all in his term
as manager. Good footballers, good fielders, nice lads, but they
always seemed to be strangers to each other, a group of individuals,
and he felt there was a part of them not really interested in being
there. This is the common state in a period of uncertainty and drift.
There was some of that in Clones against Monaghan.
I repeat for
what its worth. The immediate problem is re-creating a new and even
more radical version of what happened in 1995. Even though Armagh is
notorious of doing nothing until things collapse all around them, they
have always risen to the occasion. In the middle of the Troubles, in
the seventies and early eighties, a new Armagh reached an All-Ireland
final won three Ulster's despite ongoing disruption of training. In
the mid-nineties after the Derry debacle, we got ourselves together as
never before and created the greatest times we have ever had. But
create is the word. It is in the spirit of these two periods of
renaissance that we must now move ahead, and this county has five
precious months in which to ring in a new order of things.
Taken from another forum...dont know if this has been posted before. Apologies if it has.
Re Peter Makem article: firstly well written and enjoyable read, secondly, he would appear to make a lot of sense. I'm no expert on the history of Armagh football, but he certainly appears to be and if what he is saying is true, then his points are worth considering.
Hindsight is great, innit.
What does he mean about a team of Spartans and Red Branch Knights?
http://breakingnews.ie/sport/mcgeeney-not-interested-in-armagh-job-419885.html (http://breakingnews.ie/sport/mcgeeney-not-interested-in-armagh-job-419885.html)
24/07/2009 - 09:01:03
Kildare football manager Kieran McGeeney has ruled himself out of the running for the vacant Armagh job.
The Northerners are looking for a new boss after Peter McDonnell's resignation earlier this week.
However, speaking after training with Kildare last night, McGeeney said he was not looking to fill the position.
Former manager Joe Kernan has also dismissed an immediate return to the helm of the Orchard County due to existing work commitments.
(http://www.toondesign.biz/PhewSite/Graphics/Phew_logo.jpg)
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 10:09:35 PM
Mackers, I'm excluding frees
Fair enough Orior don't think the previous poster was but. In fairness Aaron was also one of the few players that scored from play against Monaghan and it was from outside the 21, shooting isn't one of Aaron's weaknesses.
can someone psot the irish news article
Ah Dinny, maybe you should have held your (http://www.toondesign.biz/PhewSite/Graphics/Phew_logo.jpg) until Monday.
Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 10:04:24 PM
Was he asked to jump mackers? did he not jump himself? does the county board statement of regret in accepting his resignation and the fact that they asked him to think on it for a week not indicate that they were for the status quo?
Version I heard was that he was told to jump before he was pushed.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 24, 2009, 11:18:12 AM
http://breakingnews.ie/sport/mcgeeney-not-interested-in-armagh-job-419885.html (http://breakingnews.ie/sport/mcgeeney-not-interested-in-armagh-job-419885.html)
24/07/2009 - 09:01:03
Kildare football manager Kieran McGeeney has ruled himself out of the running for the vacant Armagh job.
The Northerners are looking for a new boss after Peter McDonnell's resignation earlier this week.
However, speaking after training with Kildare last night, McGeeney said he was not looking to fill the position.
Former manager Joe Kernan has also dismissed an immediate return to the helm of the Orchard County due to existing work commitments.
(http://www.toondesign.biz/PhewSite/Graphics/Phew_logo.jpg)
If I were a Kildare man I would have no fears of McGeeney in particular jumping ship and Paul Grimley would be highly unlikely to go either. Both of them have a fairly good thing going there and would be loyal to the group of players they are working with. I've no doubt that both men want to take Armagh but not now.
The only thing that will get McGeeney in Armagh next year is Kildare winning the AI this year.
if grimley was offered the armagh job i would fancy him to take it
Quote from: Orior on July 24, 2009, 10:34:38 AM
Hindsight is great, innit.
What does he mean about a team of Spartans and Red Branch Knights?
As far as Makem is concerned, I don't think it's a case of hindsight; as far as I can recall he was heavily involved in the planning post 1995 that he refers to.
QuoteKildare football manager Kieran McGeeney has ruled himself out of the running for the vacant Armagh job
Dinny, Shouldn't you be concerning yourself with nuptial matters rather than the Armagh management!
QuoteHindsight is great, innit.
Well you have to learn from hindsight. The point about the Armagh AI winning formula now being irrelevant an a new one being needed is valid enough. Half the battle is knowing that continuing on with the present formula will not work.
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
Of the lads mentioned only Clarke is capable of kicking the ball over the bar from outside the 21 ::)
The only ones unable to would be Martin O Rourke, McEvoy - the keeper - and Toner - the midfielder.
So dont talk shit chap!
When was the last time Mallon, S Kernan scored for Armagh from outside the 21?
My point is all of Tyrones players are capable and often do score from all over the park.....Jordan and D Harte feature regularly on Tyrone's scoresheet, so the only shit talk is coming from yourself!! :D
From de Indo
The former Armagh football manager Peter McDonnell has said the leaking of the team and certain tactics into the public domain ahead of their qualifier defeat to Monaghan was "the straw that broke the camel's back" and triggered the management team's departure.
McDonnell released a statement last night on behalf of his management team but was deliberately vague in the direction that he felt the problems lay.
He outlined how the "actual team" as opposed to the "published" team and "tactical dimensions to our play" were put into the public arena ahead of the Monaghan game.
"We have concluded that to remain with Armagh after a breach of confidentiality occurred, which resulted in the actual team and tactics being openly discussed in public prior to the Monaghan game, was pointless and feel that we have been forced into an untenable position with no other option but to resign."
McDonnell said the leaking of this information was not the first time it had happened during the season.
"Throughout the year a number of fabricated stories have appeared in the press and have been alluded to by pundits on national TV.
"This was a constant source of annoyance to players and management and we now know that this was part of a concerted campaign to undermine the group.
"We are disappointed in a time of accountability that articles could be sanctioned for publication by unnamed scribes and prompts from the same used as the basis for informed opinion by columnists."
The management statement added that the Ulster title in 2008 clearly didn't satisfy "a desire for instant success" among some "influential individuals".
It claimed "pressure had been brought to bear" on members of the management and support group who had worked with them over the last two years.
"The expectations we all had for our county's future while leaving Clones in July 2007 were not high, few would have predicted that one year later we would once again be Ulster Champions.
"Yet, in only achieving Ulster success we have failed to satisfy the desire for instant success and have armed influential individuals with all they needed to withdraw support," said the statement.
Pressures
"We acknowledge the tremendous work that the County Board does and the strong support given to us by the same but particularly for the management and support group who have worked closely with us over these past two years, we realise pressures have been brought to bear on them also."
McDonnell, himself, said in a radio interview last night that there was no issue between the Armagh management which he headed and the powerful Crossmaglen club.
"This past two years we have had Crossmaglen players made available for league games. Previously that might not have occurred.
"I would know the manager of the Rangers team very well and he's a gentleman. Both of us tried to help out each other during the year. There is certainly no issue between Crossmaglen and ourselves.
"I am aware that the argument was floated but it has no substance," he asserted.
McDonnell said that he would not be making public the names of those who he felt undermined his management which has only served to fuel further speculation in the county. He admits he understood this would be the case.
Meanwhile, Joe Kernan has ruled himself out of the equation to return as Armagh manager because of business interests while Jarlath Burns has also distanced himself from any current interest in the position.
Quote from: The GAA on July 23, 2009, 05:17:37 PM
Off the mark there benny. It'll be 2 men. not county board men but 2 that pull the county board strings. This is not a player issue - if the man can't control his own players then he'd only be embarrassing himself by saying so.
I think we can surmise the 2 men in question and I don't think its far off the mark.
IMHO only one man for the job...Adrian Clarke, currently at Carrickmore.
wise up ???
I do feel that it is fair to say that county managers seldom if ever have the full support of their playing squad, no matter how successful that a team is. Where it becomes an issue though is when things don't go well, that's when the finger pointing will go on. Players have their own opinions and when you bring 30 fairly talented players together, all with their own opinions on how the game should be played or how a team should be trained, then you are fooling yourself if you feel that they will all be happy campers all the time. Players show their discontent in various ways. Some are lucky enough to be able to shrug their shoulders and say that that is just the way it is; some will cause friction in the camp, some will walk away quietly, while others will cause friction from outside the camp. Had Armagh beaten Monaghan then Peter Mc wouldn't be using the leaking as an excuse and ultimately, what you have to consider was it the only cause of Armagh's demise... probably not. Generally there will be more to it than that. That's not a pop at McDonnell by any means, just the fact of the matter is that had Armagh won that game, then the leaking of the team would never have been made public and everyone would have moved on.
I would have to disagree with PMcD there when he says that there was a need for instant success. I feel he is missing the point entirely and thats why I'm glad he's gone. People didn't think Armagh were going to have instant success, Armagh people wanted to see a few transitional years where new tactics were created and new personnell drafted in. Last year could have been forgotten if a new direction had have been implemented this year - it wasn't, and we're not all so daft to believe that a 'published' team as opposed to the 'real' team was going to make a button of difference. It wouldn't have because it wasn't just the tactics that was wrong with that team that fielded against Monaghan, EVERYTHING was wrong! Peter Makem is totally correct when he says that there needs to be a clear out and a new system brought in. As we have seen in the last couple of weeks, politics within our structures is very prevalent and I think an awful lot of Armagh Gaels feel very ostracised by this.
We're all left wondering what the hell is going on - this cloak and dagger approach has not helped and I just wish someone would come out and call a spade a spade as all this information holding is just another way to say, we really know whats going on but ordinary Gaels around the County are just the plebs who will complain on their armchairs. FFS someone sort it out and if someone can't then the ordinary Gaels needs to put a bit of pressure on their clubs for them all to come together and act. Finally bringing a bit of democracy back into this thing. Question, why does it always seem to be up to the same individuals as to what happens at county level? Secondary question, when do any of you remember being consulted as members of your clubs about what we would like to see happening at county level with regard to important decisions? If the GAA's whole raison d'etre is egalitarianism and equality, it sure is lacking in County Armagh.
Why don't the clubs call together an inter-county congress of sorts with not just administrators, but with volunteers and ordinary members to nominate people for a task force for a 5 year strategic plan for Armagh football? This task force should undoubtedly identify good administrators, but also people who know about football and are well placed to identify and bring the BEST footballers we have from all over the county and build a new force for us and with that a good tactical and moral building management team which can concentrate on what they should be concentrating on and not internal politics. I'm personnally embarrassed by our public representatives this week and its just my opinion but Peter Makem is not far off the mark - I would go further and call for a full clear out!!!
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 24, 2009, 02:10:14 PM
IMHO only one man for the job...Adrian Clarke, currently at Carrickmore.
Other options are:
1) Samuel L. Jackson
2) Emilio Estevez
Both these guys seem to have done well with an average squad.
Quote from: Orior on July 24, 2009, 03:50:17 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 24, 2009, 02:10:14 PM
IMHO only one man for the job...Adrian Clarke, currently at Carrickmore.
Other options are:
1) Samuel L. Jackson
2) Emilio Estevez
Both these guys seem to have done well with an average squad.
Maybe they could form part of the backroom team ;)
Quote from: irunthev on July 24, 2009, 10:21:30 AM
Re Peter Makem article: firstly well written and enjoyable read, secondly, he would appear to make a lot of sense. I'm no expert on the history of Armagh football, but he certainly appears to be and if what he is saying is true, then his points are worth considering.
Smart fella. Knows his stuff.
Quote from: Orior on July 24, 2009, 03:50:17 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 24, 2009, 02:10:14 PM
IMHO only one man for the job...Adrian Clarke, currently at Carrickmore.
Other options are:
1) Samuel L. Jackson
2) Emilio Estevez
Both these guys seem to have done well with an average squad.
I for one would like to see Armagh instigate some sort of 'flying-V' attacking strategy.
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 24, 2009, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
Of the lads mentioned only Clarke is capable of kicking the ball over the bar from outside the 21 ::)
The only ones unable to would be Martin O Rourke, McEvoy - the keeper - and Toner - the midfielder.
So dont talk shit chap!
When was the last time Mallon, S Kernan scored for Armagh from outside the 21?
My point is all of Tyrones players are capable and often do score from all over the park.....Jordan and D Harte feature regularly on Tyrone's scoresheet, so the only shit talk is coming from yourself!! :D
Both reguarly do. Mallon got two points in his last game ffs while SK has choipped in with a couple of scores in almost every Championship game he has played.
So quit talking shit.
Quote from: orangeman on July 24, 2009, 08:27:25 PM
Quote from: irunthev on July 24, 2009, 10:21:30 AM
Re Peter Makem article: firstly well written and enjoyable read, secondly, he would appear to make a lot of sense. I'm no expert on the history of Armagh football, but he certainly appears to be and if what he is saying is true, then his points are worth considering.
Smart fella. Knows his stuff.
No disrespect to him, but anyone could say we need a new system. Just isn't as easy as stating it.
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2009, 02:51:10 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 24, 2009, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 23, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Orior on July 23, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 23, 2009, 11:21:56 AM
Face facts.......Armagh do not have the quality footballers............how many of the current squad/team would make it onto the Tyrone panel?
Brendan Donaghy
Andy Mallon
Ciaran McKeever
Charlie Vernon
Stevie McDonnell
Ronan Clarke
Just the panel? You can throw in McEvoy, Aaron Kernan, a fit Marty O'Rourke, Kieran Toner, Brian Mallon, Kevin O'Rourke, Stephen Kernan - all of these would undobtedly make the panel for me. Starters, however, would be very low.
Of the lads mentioned only Clarke is capable of kicking the ball over the bar from outside the 21 ::)
The only ones unable to would be Martin O Rourke, McEvoy - the keeper - and Toner - the midfielder.
So dont talk shit chap!
When was the last time Mallon, S Kernan scored for Armagh from outside the 21?
My point is all of Tyrones players are capable and often do score from all over the park.....Jordan and D Harte feature regularly on Tyrone's scoresheet, so the only shit talk is coming from yourself!! :D
Both reguarly do. Mallon got two points in his last game ffs while SK has choipped in with a couple of scores in almost every Championship game he has played.
So quit talking shit.
He did what now?
Quote from: slievegullion on July 24, 2009, 01:26:33 PM
A large family yawn bucket with 4 sides of beans a bottle of pepsi.
Sorry, I forgot you were the King of the Keyboard.
Any chance that the backstabbers might be outed and Peter McDonnell invited to take up the post again?
Quote from: Orior on July 25, 2009, 04:59:26 PM
Any chance that the backstabbers might be outed and Peter McDonnell invited to take up the post again?
About as much chance as Corn talking sense :D
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 25, 2009, 04:24:37 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2009, 02:52:29 PM
No disrespect to him, but anyone could say we need a new system. Just isn't as easy as stating it.
Exactly, I think everyone on the Board has been asking for and suggesting new systems.
Yes I agree, but while we know that a new system is needed, Peter Makem might have a better idea about what that system might be; he's a shrewd football man.
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 25, 2009, 05:28:21 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 25, 2009, 04:59:26 PM
Any chance that the backstabbers might be outed and Peter McDonnell invited to take up the post again?
The most likely scenario.
Can't see that personally. Too much said / implied.
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 25, 2009, 05:04:47 PM
Quote from: Take Your Points on July 25, 2009, 04:24:37 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 25, 2009, 02:52:29 PM
No disrespect to him, but anyone could say we need a new system. Just isn't as easy as stating it.
Exactly, I think everyone on the Board has been asking for and suggesting new systems.
Yes I agree, but while we know that a new system is needed, Peter Makem might have a better idea about what that system might be; he's a shrewd football man.
Don't know anything about makem - what are his coaching credentials?
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 25, 2009, 05:01:22 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 25, 2009, 04:59:26 PM
Any chance that the backstabbers might be outed and Peter McDonnell invited to take up the post again?
About as much chance as Corn talking sense :D
Indeed, for someone who doesn't seem able to comprehend systems or anything like that, you do a lot of yaking.
Quote from: corn02 on July 26, 2009, 01:04:11 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 25, 2009, 05:01:22 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 25, 2009, 04:59:26 PM
Any chance that the backstabbers might be outed and Peter McDonnell invited to take up the post again?
About as much chance as Corn talking sense :D
Indeed, for someone who doesn't seem able to comprehend systems or anything like that, you do a lot of yaking.
Away back to the soccer thread.....there's a good wee boy! :D
Armagh could do worse than giving the 2 Brians another crack at the helm, They made a decent fist of a panel of div 3 standard players before so who's to say they couldn't do it again?
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:12:47 PM
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
More finger poimting at the invisibles.
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:12:47 PM
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
More finger poimting at the invisibles.
Not sure what your getting at?
Was actually a well written article that was well informed and hit the nail on the head.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:12:47 PM
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
More finger poimting at the invisibles.
Not sure what your getting at?
Was actually a well written article that was well informed and hit the nail on the head.
A lot of things have been said and things implied. Individuals have been talked about written about. Mc Donnell says he knows who was responsible for the leaks and has given interviews about it.
To avoid a lot of ambiguity and to stop the rumour mill which is in overdrive, he should come out and name those responsible if has proof ( which he says he has ). If he doesn't then he should stop talking about it and end the recriminations.
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:23:34 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:12:47 PM
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
More finger poimting at the invisibles.
Not sure what your getting at?
Was actually a well written article that was well informed and hit the nail on the head.
A lot of things have been said and things implied. Individuals have been talked about written about. Mc Donnell says he knows who was responsible for the leaks and has given interviews about it.
To avoid a lot of ambiguity and to stop the rumour mill which is in overdrive, he should come out and name those responsible if has proof ( which he says he has ). If he doesn't then he should stop talking about it and end the recriminations.
Agreed, its time to put up or shut up. Don't think that will happen now though. I think his comments were a smokescreen for his inadequacies as a manager. He might have been a good number 2 but lacked the authority and presence to be the front man.
Look lads as Armagh supporters do you think:
1. Peter Mc Donnell was the best man for the job?
2. That was the best team we could have fielded?
I like Peter as an individual and played along side him, but I feel he never had a free reign, and I definately feel there are good players not on the squad as it stands.
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 26, 2009, 10:29:00 PM
Look lads as Armagh supporters do you think:
1. Peter Mc Donnell was the best man for the job?
2. That was the best team we could have fielded?
I like Peter as an individual and played along side him, but I feel he never had a free reign, and I definately feel there are good players not on the squad as it stands.
Who do you think should have been in the squad?
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:27:08 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:23:34 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:12:47 PM
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
More finger poimting at the invisibles.
Not sure what your getting at?
Was actually a well written article that was well informed and hit the nail on the head.
A lot of things have been said and things implied. Individuals have been talked about written about. Mc Donnell says he knows who was responsible for the leaks and has given interviews about it.
To avoid a lot of ambiguity and to stop the rumour mill which is in overdrive, he should come out and name those responsible if has proof ( which he says he has ). If he doesn't then he should stop talking about it and end the recriminations.
Agreed, its time to put up or shut up. Don't think that will happen now though. I think his comments were a smokescreen for his inadequacies as a manager. He might have been a good number 2 but lacked the authority and presence to be the front man.
A lot of misinformation on the go here I think!
Orangeman,where did Peter Mc Donnell say he had proof?
yellowcard,when was Peter Mc Donnell a no.2 in management?
Whatever information might exist about leaks in the camp, I am sure that there is nothing that approaches "proof".So there is nothing to be gained by implying things that you cannot go any further with.
Just thinking about Galway, AI winners the year before Armagh, some good underage talent has come through since then but the senior team deceives, people expect good stuff from them but they never quite deliver. Is this Armagh.
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 26, 2009, 04:28:40 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 26, 2009, 01:04:11 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 25, 2009, 05:01:22 PM
Quote from: Orior on July 25, 2009, 04:59:26 PM
Any chance that the backstabbers might be outed and Peter McDonnell invited to take up the post again?
About as much chance as Corn talking sense :D
Indeed, for someone who doesn't seem able to comprehend systems or anything like that, you do a lot of yaking.
Away back to the soccer thread.....there's a good wee boy! :D
A qucik scan through your posts would see you often frequent the soccer threads, so you have lost me there.
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
And their names are?
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 26, 2009, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2009, 10:12:47 PM
Article in the Tribune today referred to an unused sub being the player who leaked the team and tactics. Not sure who this is referring to.
More finger poimting at the invisibles.
Not sure what your getting at?
Was actually a well written article that was well informed and hit the nail on the head.
Would there be any chance of getting hold of this article? Live in Belgium so the Tribune isn't that readily available.
QuoteLive in Belgium so the Tribune isn't that readily available.
try the web
http://www.tribune.ie/sport/gaelic-football/article/2009/jul/26/armaghs-internal-strife-orchard-hit-by-a-classic-t/ (http://www.tribune.ie/sport/gaelic-football/article/2009/jul/26/armaghs-internal-strife-orchard-hit-by-a-classic-t/)
Quote from: armaghniac on July 27, 2009, 01:35:05 PM
QuoteLive in Belgium so the Tribune isn't that readily available.
try the web
http://www.tribune.ie/sport/gaelic-football/article/2009/jul/26/armaghs-internal-strife-orchard-hit-by-a-classic-t/ (http://www.tribune.ie/sport/gaelic-football/article/2009/jul/26/armaghs-internal-strife-orchard-hit-by-a-classic-t/)
perfect, thanks
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Should two players in question be called saboteurs or saviours?
Quote from: Diet Coke on July 26, 2009, 10:29:00 PM
Look lads as Armagh supporters do you think:
1. Peter Mc Donnell was the best man for the job?
2. That was the best team we could have fielded?
I like Peter as an individual and played along side him, but I feel he never had a free reign, and I definately feel there are good players not on the squad as it stands.
1) Yes
2) Yes
I jut heard that the Armagh board have spoken to Greg Blaney & James McCarten about the position.
Whats your thoughts on that?
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Quote from: Apple Crumble on July 27, 2009, 03:01:55 PM
I jut heard that the Armagh board have spoken to Greg Blaney & James McCarten about the position.
Whats your thoughts on that?
The last thing Armagh will want is 2 down men steering them towards oblivion. ;D
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
Quote from: Apple Crumble on July 27, 2009, 03:01:55 PM
I jut heard that the Armagh board have spoken to Greg Blaney & James McCarten about the position.
Whats your thoughts on that?
That you are smoking the funny stuff too early on a Monday
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
I didnt stop them talking / trying to run the show in the dressing room by all accounts. I could see through if it if they had the sort of presence of a McGeeney or a Canavan, but them pair ? ::)
Quote from: Apple Crumble on July 27, 2009, 03:01:55 PM
I jut heard that the Armagh board have spoken to Greg Blaney & James McCarten about the position.
Whats your thoughts on that?
Greg's Dad is from Armagh, and in his younger days James went to many a houlie in nearby Lurgan.
Other than that, its close to a good wind-up, but no cigar.
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
I didnt stop them talking / trying to run the show in the dressing room by all accounts. I could see through if it if they had the sort of presence of a McGeeney or a Canavan, but them pair ? ::)
So out of interest, what has your source been right on before?
Suprised you are entertaining this WUM Corn
Check through his posts, when he has a quiet day at work he is on here talking sh1te
Laugh at him & send him on his way
Quote from: full back on July 27, 2009, 03:21:17 PM
Suprised you are entertaining this WUM Corn
Check through his posts, when he has a quiet day at work he is on here talking sh1te
Laugh at him & send him on his way
What makes you so sure what im saying isn't correct, i havent even mentioned any names.......... as yet.
Check back through my posts - who's having a quiet day ? ;D
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
I didnt stop them talking / trying to run the show in the dressing room by all accounts. I could see through if it if they had the sort of presence of a McGeeney or a Canavan, but them pair ? ::)
So out of interest, what has your source been right on before?
Just about everything, as a member of the panel he would be party to plenty of info. Although in fairness its usually several months before info surfaces.
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
I didnt stop them talking / trying to run the show in the dressing room by all accounts. I could see through if it if they had the sort of presence of a McGeeney or a Canavan, but them pair ? ::)
So out of interest, what has your source been right on before?
Just about everything, as a member of the panel he would be party to plenty of info. Although in fairness its usually several months before info surfaces.
Like what? You said he hasn;t been wrong, what was he right about?
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
I didnt stop them talking / trying to run the show in the dressing room by all accounts. I could see through if it if they had the sort of presence of a McGeeney or a Canavan, but them pair ? ::)
So out of interest, what has your source been right on before?
Just about everything, as a member of the panel he would be party to plenty of info. Although in fairness its usually several months before info surfaces.
Like what? You said he hasn;t been wrong, what was he right about?
The Stephen Kernan / Grimley issue
The 2 players alluded to beforehand trying to run the dressing room
the fall out between 2 very senior players before the Armagh Fermanagh match 2004
McConville McEntee issue
McGeeney Swift and Toal issue
McConville and air miles
Lots lots more.........
I'd be embarrassed to be an Armagh fan :D
So you're not an Armagh fan yet a panel member told you this, so he is the leak?
McDonnell himself said it was high profile sub over the weekend that he suspected as being the leak I think
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:56:15 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:18:34 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:10:25 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 02:49:57 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 01:05:58 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 27, 2009, 11:56:36 AM
The leaks were down to 2 individuals on the team that shouldnt have been on the Armagh team, they are both past it and one of them never really had it in the first place. As a near neighbour all you can do is laugh. ;D
Is quite obvious who you are alluding too, you would need to be careful making such claims, especially as they are incorrect.
Really ? And you would know this how ?
Because you are talking w**k.
Well my source is yet to be wrong, and how do we even know we are talking about the same people ?
Possibly I picked it up wrong, in your orginal post dd you mean team or panel?
Team
Well it narrows it down when you say they are past it because by my reckoning only 3 players were over the 27/28 mark.
Not strike you as weird that starters would try and make things more difficult for themselves?
I didnt stop them talking / trying to run the show in the dressing room by all accounts. I could see through if it if they had the sort of presence of a McGeeney or a Canavan, but them pair ? ::)
So out of interest, what has your source been right on before?
Just about everything, as a member of the panel he would be party to plenty of info. Although in fairness its usually several months before info surfaces.
Like what? You said he hasn;t been wrong, what was he right about?
The Stephen Kernan / Grimley issue
The 2 players alluded to beforehand trying to run the dressing room
the fall out between 2 very senior players before the Armagh Fermanagh match 2004
McConville McEntee issue
McGeeney Swift and Toal issue
McConville and air miles
Lots lots more.........
I'd be embarrassed to be an Armagh fan :D
? Here's my take on that ..
The Stephen Kernan / Grimley issue
- That's old newsThe 2 players alluded to beforehand trying to run the dressing room
- Everyone knew thatthe fall out between 2 very senior players before the Armagh Fermanagh match 2004
- That's news to meMcConville McEntee issue
- That was rumourMcGeeney Swift and Toal issue
- That's news tooMcConville and air miles
- Not sure which McConville story this is !!!
Quote from: JMohan on July 27, 2009, 05:34:41 PM
McDonnell himself said it was high profile sub over the weekend that he suspected as being the leak I think
Did he though? Or did the Tribune just make that claim on hearsay?
Edit: If he was quoted as saying that I stand corrected.
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 05:48:10 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 27, 2009, 05:34:41 PM
McDonnell himself said it was high profile sub over the weekend that he suspected as being the leak I think
Did he though? Or did the Tribune just make that claim on hearsay?
Edit: If he was quoted as saying that I stand corrected.
Sorry - I stand corrected - just rechecked it.
That said... it was such a clinical statement it stood out in my mind at the time - I personally would be amazed if it didn't originate very close to PMcD.
Boys, the saboteur was outed last week on OC. Someone registered on OC and posted a scathing paragraph or two that rang true and confirmed what I had heard on a couple of ocassions. I thought it was common knowledge who had released the details of the team and it certainly wasn't a sub, and reading that article I would suspect that McDonnell was never contacted because he sure as feck knows who it was.
yeah read that myself last week on OC, but can we take that hearsay as red??
I assume it was deleted off OC very quickly?
Anyone who read it wanna be a hero and post it up here?
Failing that, anyone wanna PM me? lol.
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 07:21:11 PM
I assume it was deleted off OC very quickly?
Anyone who read it wanna be a hero and post it up here?
Failing that, anyone wanna PM me? lol.
I'll take a pm too please
all these clues and "everyone knows" all this stuff, I know nothing!
All news to me as well. PM if you get a chance and I'll arrange the pitch forks.
Quote from: Donagh on July 27, 2009, 08:24:33 PM
All news to me as well. PM if you get a chance and I'll arrange the pitch forks.
already done
Quote from: Donagh on July 27, 2009, 08:24:33 PM
All news to me as well. PM if you get a chance and I'll arrange the pitch forks.
I'd take a PM on that too
PM too if you please
Oh Jesus, what have I started.
i'm nosey too :D
all I can say is :o
For the sake of armagh football a few heads need banged together, get them all in a room, sort out the petty differences and get on with it!
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
Any chance of another pm?
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 27, 2009, 09:49:28 PM
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
My thinking as well.
On the leaker himself, his was the first name that came into my head when it all started to unfold, and from reading this thread I think most others would be thinking the same.
lads im new to the board and it wouldnt be my place to say ;).................No serioslyI know the fella that its about and I couldnt say too much about it, Barry Coleman did well to take it down so quickly
Quote from: bigdeal on July 27, 2009, 10:20:38 PM
lads im new to the board and it wouldnt be my place to say ;).................No serioslyI know the fella that its about and I couldnt say too much about it, Barry Coleman did well to take it down so quickly
What point were you actually making with this post?
I didnt want to be seen as the person to reveal anything whenever there is no hardened evidence to support the claim...... were only going on what one poster has claimed on OC
Quote from: bigdeal on July 27, 2009, 10:27:03 PM
I didnt want to be seen as the person to reveal anything whenever there is no hardened evidence to support the claim...... were only going on what one poster has claimed on OC
Fair point.
I believe it though.
Quote from: bigdeal on July 27, 2009, 10:27:03 PM
I didnt want to be seen as the person to reveal anything whenever there is no hardened evidence to support the claim...... were only going on what one poster has claimed on OC
You should get yourself a hotmail address sir.
There,s no water like muddy water. Name and shame. When Peter McDonnell went public with this he failled to mention the small matter of his own shortfalls. Instead of crying to the media,he would have been wiser to "say nothing". ???
Quote from: Orior on July 27, 2009, 10:31:11 PM
Quote from: bigdeal on July 27, 2009, 10:27:03 PM
I didnt want to be seen as the person to reveal anything whenever there is no hardened evidence to support the claim...... were only going on what one poster has claimed on OC
You should get yourself a hotmail address sir.
Ha ha!! :D
How is the building trade these days bigdeal?
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 27, 2009, 09:49:28 PM
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
I don't think thats the point.
He named a 'fake team' shall we say for the paper on the Thursday before the Monaghan game and we would have all thought that was the team for the game had the actual team not been posted on this board on the previous Wednesday night.
Obviously there was a leak from within the team which was clearly undermining McDonnell. This leak was outed momentarily on Orchard County.
As I just said it wasn't so much tactics it was the leaking of the selected team.
Quote from: hardstation on July 27, 2009, 10:52:21 PM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 10:50:10 PM
As I just said it wasn't so much tactics it was the leaking of the selected team.
Although it's bad form if it was to be kept secret but big fecking deal.
I know what you mean but as Al says its all about the inches and undermining like that can have a huge adverse impact. They did only lose by a point in extra time, who knows what sort of difference it did or didn't make?
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 10:50:10 PM
As I just said it wasn't so much tactics it was the leaking of the selected team.
Happens all the time though. Been common for years for the odd switch to known round the county before a match. Does anyone remember McAlinden naming Diarmaid Marsden at number 5 for a c'ship match int he 90s (might have been Down in 98)? I remember being told what the actual team was before that match as well.
Charlie had already played a challenge match a fortnight before the Monaghan match. That he would start rather than Kevin O'Rourke was hardly rocket science. If the management think that was the winning and losing of the match, they've lost touch with reality.
As for actual tactics being leaked, I find that very hard to believe.
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 27, 2009, 09:49:28 PM
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
I don't think thats the point.
He named a 'fake team' shall we say for the paper on the Thursday before the Monaghan game and we would have all thought that was the team for the game had the actual team not been posted on this board on the previous Wednesday night.
Obviously there was a leak from within the team which was clearly undermining McDonnell. This leak was outed momentarily on Orchard County.
Nothing to do with the Armagh situation, but what is this obsession wiith managers naming dud teams on a Thursday and then think they are pulling a fast one by naming a different starting team. International rugby have a process of naming their teams in mid week and to it religiously unless there is an injury. Either stop this ridiculous process of naming teams in the press midweek or introduce a rule stating that the team named has to be genuine. After all, it us the paying public that are having to swallow this load of crap that they dish out to us.
Quote from: irunthev on July 28, 2009, 08:49:55 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 27, 2009, 09:49:28 PM
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
I don't think thats the point.
He named a 'fake team' shall we say for the paper on the Thursday before the Monaghan game and we would have all thought that was the team for the game had the actual team not been posted on this board on the previous Wednesday night.
Obviously there was a leak from within the team which was clearly undermining McDonnell. This leak was outed momentarily on Orchard County.
Nothing to do with the Armagh situation, but what is this obsession wiith managers naming dud teams on a Thursday and then think they are pulling a fast one by naming a different starting team. International rugby have a process of naming their teams in mid week and to it religiously unless there is an injury. Either stop this ridiculous process of naming teams in the press midweek or introduce a rule stating that the team named has to be genuine. After all, it us the paying public that are having to swallow this load of crap that they dish out to us.
I thought county boards were fined if the team in the programme was different to that which started?
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2009, 09:03:55 AM
Quote from: irunthev on July 28, 2009, 08:49:55 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 27, 2009, 09:49:28 PM
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
I don't think thats the point.
He named a 'fake team' shall we say for the paper on the Thursday before the Monaghan game and we would have all thought that was the team for the game had the actual team not been posted on this board on the previous Wednesday night.
Obviously there was a leak from within the team which was clearly undermining McDonnell. This leak was outed momentarily on Orchard County.
Nothing to do with the Armagh situation, but what is this obsession wiith managers naming dud teams on a Thursday and then think they are pulling a fast one by naming a different starting team. International rugby have a process of naming their teams in mid week and to it religiously unless there is an injury. Either stop this ridiculous process of naming teams in the press midweek or introduce a rule stating that the team named has to be genuine. After all, it us the paying public that are having to swallow this load of crap that they dish out to us.
I thought county boards were fined if the team in the programme was different to that which started?
[/b]
They are.
Think they are only fined if the players aren't wearing correct number on jersey as per programme. Down were fined for this earlier in the year. On Sunday Kerry had O'Se and Cooper in the starting 15 but everyone knew they were dropped. When teams play games in a short space of time, they just keep the same numbers. In 2004 Tyrone got fined for including Gavin Devlin in the pre-match parade when he wasn't starting but no-one knew about this and his replacement took his place on the field after the national anthem.
Quote from: orangeman on July 28, 2009, 09:48:50 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 28, 2009, 09:03:55 AM
Quote from: irunthev on July 28, 2009, 08:49:55 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 27, 2009, 10:44:50 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on July 27, 2009, 09:49:28 PM
I'm not taking the p*ss but what was there about McDonnells tactics to leak? Was he not rather predictable?
I don't think thats the point.
He named a 'fake team' shall we say for the paper on the Thursday before the Monaghan game and we would have all thought that was the team for the game had the actual team not been posted on this board on the previous Wednesday night.
Obviously there was a leak from within the team which was clearly undermining McDonnell. This leak was outed momentarily on Orchard County.
Nothing to do with the Armagh situation, but what is this obsession wiith managers naming dud teams on a Thursday and then think they are pulling a fast one by naming a different starting team. International rugby have a process of naming their teams in mid week and to it religiously unless there is an injury. Either stop this ridiculous process of naming teams in the press midweek or introduce a rule stating that the team named has to be genuine. After all, it us the paying public that are having to swallow this load of crap that they dish out to us.
I thought county boards were fined if the team in the programme was different to that which started?
[/b]
They are.
They're obviously not fined enough. If a manager tells you lies on a Thursday, why would you believe a word came out of his mouth after a match on Sunday or on Monday?
The manager of my own county will talk to the press on Thursday and say such and such is in hospital and his season is over and so and so is out for two months and next thing they two of them play the full 70mins on a Sunday. Can;t stand that crap. Don;t quite know what is achieved by rubbish like that.
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 05:16:03 PM
So you're not an Armagh fan yet a panel member told you this, so he is the leak?
He is most certainly not the leak. The ones dong the talking should be trying to do it on the field instead of getting skinned.
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 10:48:52 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 05:16:03 PM
So you're not an Armagh fan yet a panel member told you this, so he is the leak?
He is most certainly not the leak. The ones dong the talking should be trying to do it on the field instead of getting skinned.
Ok sorry for that, will you please apologise to your imaginary friend.
Whatever you reckon horse.
Fact is 2 limited footballers from south armagh have been talking when they should have been listening. Long may it continue.
If he's not the leak yet he's telling you all this stuff, then either you are also a panel member in which case you are allowed to discuss the ongoings within the panel, or else he is in fact the leak.
Ah sure he's only telling you. And you're only telling one other person who swears they wont say anything. And so on and so forth.
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 10:57:21 AM
Whatever you reckon horse.
Fact is 2 limited footballers from south armagh have been talking when they should have been listening. Long may it continue.
Listening to who?
Quote from: SidelineKick on July 28, 2009, 11:02:09 AM
If he's not the leak yet he's telling you all this stuff, then either you are also a panel member in which case you are allowed to discuss the ongoings within the panel, or else he is in fact the leak.
Ah sure he's only telling you. And you're only telling one other person who swears they wont say anything. And so on and so forth.
Im not a member of the armagh panel - god forbid. And i couldnt give a shite who he tells or how many - that said he doesnt say a lot about it other than expressing frustration at some limited individuals.
Quote from: SidelineKick on July 28, 2009, 11:02:09 AM
If he's not the leak yet he's telling you all this stuff, then either you are also a panel member in which case you are allowed to discuss the ongoings within the panel, or else he is in fact the leak.
Ah sure he's only telling you. And you're only telling one other person who swears they wont say anything. And so on and so forth.
Feck off back to L'Derry ;) :D and stop stirring the sh1t
Man in Black, in tryin to read between the lines in what you are saying I think you might be mistaken as to who the leak is.
As for the naming of different teams, I too believe this is a load of rubbish and wish every manager would stop this bullsh!t.
But thats not the point here.
I have as little time for PmcD as a manager as the next man but the fact is he was directly undermined by a player who must have had an alternative agenda.
I don't believe Armagh were going too far this year but we should not be going out to Monaghan in the first round of the qualifiers! We were beaten by the slenderest of margins and as I said who knows what sort of difference the team leak made?
This is the matter in question. A team member felt it necessary to leak the team and/or tactics for some reason and it may have cost us the game. they must have had another agenda and I for one am pretty outraged at these ongoing within our county.
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:21:07 AM
Man in Black, in tryin to read between the lines in what you are saying I think you might be mistaken as to who the leak is.
As for the naming of different teams, I too believe this is a load of rubbish and wish every manager would stop this bullsh!t.
But thats not the point here.
I have as little time for PmcD as a manager as the next man but the fact is he was directly undermined by a player who must have had an alternative agenda.
I don't believe Armagh were going too far this year but we should not be going out to Monaghan in the first round of the qualifiers! We were beaten by the slenderest of margins and as I said who knows what sort of difference the team leak made?
This is the matter in question. A team member felt it necessary to leak the team and/or tactics for some reason and it may have cost us the game. they must have had another agenda and I for one am pretty outraged at these ongoing within our county.
So who do you believe the leak is?
For the sake of my username and the fact that I don't want any posts/threads deleted I won't be posting any names.
Not to mention the wider legal implications there may be.
You're the big man making the earlier accusations, why don't you name and shame who you seem to believe it is?
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
For the sake of my username and the fact that I don't want any posts/threads deleted I won't be posting any names.
Not to mention the wider legal implications there may be.
You're the big man making the earlier accusations, why don't you name and shame who you seem to believe it is?
I know who it is so no need to run the risk of legal implications etc. It would seem to me that there is some serious smoke screens in Armagh cos none of you seem to know the craic at all.
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
For the sake of my username and the fact that I don't want any posts/threads deleted I won't be posting any names.
Not to mention the wider legal implications there may be.
You're the big man making the earlier accusations, why don't you name and shame who you seem to believe it is?
I know who it is so no need to run the risk of legal implications etc. It would seem to me that there is some serious smoke screens in Armagh cos none of you seem to know the craic at all.
I think your full of sh!t and God knows who your on here posting for.
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:21:07 AM
This is the matter in question. A team member felt it necessary to leak the team and/or tactics for some reason and it may have cost us the game. they must have had another agenda and I for one am pretty outraged at these ongoing within our county.
Well said.
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:41:51 AM
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
For the sake of my username and the fact that I don't want any posts/threads deleted I won't be posting any names.
Not to mention the wider legal implications there may be.
You're the big man making the earlier accusations, why don't you name and shame who you seem to believe it is?
I know who it is so no need to run the risk of legal implications etc. It would seem to me that there is some serious smoke screens in Armagh cos none of you seem to know the craic at all.
I think your full of sh!t and God knows who your on here posting for.
What in the name of Jesus are you on about. Why would i post for someone else ? It seems the Armagh brigade cannot see the elephant in the room.
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 10:48:52 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 27, 2009, 05:16:03 PM
So you're not an Armagh fan yet a panel member told you this, so he is the leak?
He is most certainly not the leak. The ones dong the talking should be trying to do it on the field instead of getting skinned.
If your implying who I think you are implying you have got it badly wrong. Fact.
Justin McNulty has admitted interest in the vacant Armagh management job.
The Mullaghbawn native stopped short of making an outright declaration but said if he was approached about the position he would be receptive.
"If I was approached about it I'd certainly give it consideration," said McNulty, the team's full-back when they won the All-Ireland title in 2002.
McNulty's coaching CV includes Cavan championship success with Mullahoran in 2006 and getting St Brigid's to a Dublin final in 2007 when they lost to eventual All-Ireland champions St Vincent's.
So far Joe Kernan and Kieran McGeeney have both ruled themselves out to replace the departed Peter McDonnell.
Paul Grimley, McGeeney's assistant in Kildare and the man who many felt would replace Kernan in 2007, is still in the frame however.
Despite being overlooked two years ago he has not made his intentions clear but his taxing journey from Armagh to Kildare may be a factor.
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:41:51 AM
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 11:37:44 AM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 11:33:18 AM
For the sake of my username and the fact that I don't want any posts/threads deleted I won't be posting any names.
Not to mention the wider legal implications there may be.
You're the big man making the earlier accusations, why don't you name and shame who you seem to believe it is?
I know who it is so no need to run the risk of legal implications etc. It would seem to me that there is some serious smoke screens in Armagh cos none of you seem to know the craic at all.
I think your full of sh!t and God knows who your on here posting for.
What in the name of Jesus are you on about. Why would i post for someone else ? It seems the Armagh brigade cannot see the elephant in the room.
Well if your not going to name this elephant PM me to see if were definitely talking about different people, I'm pretty sure we are.
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
Quote from: The GAA on July 28, 2009, 04:22:52 PM
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
It's ridiculous isn't it?
And we should all be ashamed that we entertained him.
Quote from: The GAA on July 28, 2009, 04:22:52 PM
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
Now you are the one talking shite. How can the posts be libellous (not liable you plank) when no names have been mentioned ? I know the facts and trust my source
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2009, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 28, 2009, 04:22:52 PM
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
It's ridiculous isn't it?
And we should all be ashamed that we entertained him.
Why is it so ridiculous ?
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2009, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 28, 2009, 04:22:52 PM
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
It's ridiculous isn't it?
And we should all be ashamed that we entertained him.
Why is it so ridiculous ?
Because if you had any understanding you would relaise how wrong you are.
Anyway libel does not rely on naming alone, if you identify someone too specifically you can be punished.
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2009, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2009, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 28, 2009, 04:22:52 PM
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
It's ridiculous isn't it?
And we should all be ashamed that we entertained him.
Why is it so ridiculous ?
Because if you had any understanding you would relaise how wrong you are.
Anyway libel does not rely on naming alone, if you identify someone too specifically you can be punished.
I think you have done more to indentify who you are talking about more than me. ;D
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 04:34:15 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2009, 04:32:40 PM
Quote from: man in black on July 28, 2009, 04:28:56 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 28, 2009, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: The GAA on July 28, 2009, 04:22:52 PM
Obviously this is a clown. Anyone with half a clue in armagh knows which player let the info out. Certainly not the players you are trying to implicate. So obviously, in fact, that this forum is liable with those posts.
You'd wonder how anyone could be so certain about something completely incorrect?
You are a tyrone man after all. At least the leaker spoke to someone with a bit of cop on-unlike your imaginary mate
It's ridiculous isn't it?
And we should all be ashamed that we entertained him.
Why is it so ridiculous ?
Because if you had any understanding you would relaise how wrong you are.
Anyway libel does not rely on naming alone, if you identify someone too specifically you can be punished.
I think you have done more to indentify who you are talking about more than me. ;D
Ok show me how I have then.
Who took the Monaghan training session before the game that seemed to cause a bit of fuss??
REPOSTING THIS :
Mc Donnell during his Drivetime interview with Des Cahill last Wednesday night described how prior to the Monaghan game, the actual team and the team tactics ( not the team named for the programme ) was being discussed in a public forum ( whatever that is ). He said that he was looking around the set up to see who was doing the leaking, which led to a breakdown in trust.
He said that he and Donal Murtagh ( describing Murtagh as a gentleman ) had a very good relationship and that there were no difficulties with Crossmaglen and him.
Des made a comment that Joe had sons playing on the team and would have been aware of the tactics and team. Peter said that he was not implying or suggesting that Joe was the person who was responsible for the team being known. But didn't describe Joe as a gentleman.
I listened to the interview and wondered after it was over, why he gave the interview in the first place.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2009, 05:17:29 PM
Who took the Monaghan training session before the game that seemed to cause a bit of fuss??
Who?
corn if you stop answering him he'll go away.
Disappointed in Peter McDonnell and the stuff he's come out with - he's not really doing the county and himself any good and only opening himself up to questions about who he's referring to. In the long run hopefully this will be the wake up call the county board and the whole set up needs, to start moving in the right direction again and to put in place the right structures and environment needed for success.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on July 24, 2009, 10:05:21 AM
ARMAGH, FOCUSSING ON THE REAL ISSUE – Peter Makem
(Written prior to Peter McDonnell's resignation as Manager)
There
is no doubt that people are very down regarding the state of the county
senior football team after the performance against Monaghan. I have
never known it to be so depressed since the heavy defeat against Derry
at the Athletic Grounds in 1995. But the current demise of Armagh,
like that of '95 and two decades earlier in 1974, is a much larger
problem than that of a manager. In fact, our depression and anger
whatever it is, is misplaced in my opinion, the manager is largely a
scapegoat for a much, much deeper problem that badly needs to be
addressed.
There is one over-riding reality that we should keep
at the front of our minds. The Armagh senior team as a structure, that
is, the radical new structure that was set up in 1995, after the
collapse in the Athletic Grounds, and brought into life by Brian
McAlinden and Joe Kernan, is totally gone. It formally died its death
in Croke Park last year against Wexford but it was on the way out for
several years previous.
The Armagh revolution that created the
GAA's first ever high-powered professional back-up team, that
introduced the blanket defence into Gaelic Football and brought us our
first ever Sam Maguire, is no more.
What is really missing, and what
we really lamenting, is the absence of a fresh new radical set-up to
replace the one that is gone to create the next great Armagh team.
This has hit us badly in the form of the collapse at Clones. The sad
showing against Monaghan is a symptom of our problem. We have to get
this much clear.
There will be no more Sam Maguire cups
coming to the county unless we repeat the outstanding work of the mid
nineties when the Tactical Support Group was set up and a team was
created to build a team. Within such a structure – as happened before
– we need radical new thinking in the playing of the game, knowing that
a side can only be sure of winning the highest honour if they raise the
bar of possibility higher than it has been raised before. Armagh did
that in the last great adventure.
A manager's success is not
based on his technical ability nor the ability of his players, but on
the existence of a system, a structure in which he and the players can
work and develop. In the following correspondence I will try to
develop this position, and there is strong evidence to support it.
To
use a bit of imagery, if the soil is made fertile, if the land has
become barren, if the ship has become unseaworthy, no impression can be
made, no action is possible. It is part of the natural drift, the
natural growing old of things.
Kerry threw four managers, all
deeply knowledgeable former players, at their problem between 1986 and
the later nineties, but it didn't resolve things. The old days just
would not come back. Down are struggling with the fifteen year gap
since 1994, and Dublin are enduring a similar absence of real success
five managers later. These managers are intelligent, dedicated,
football loving men. Donegal and Derry have put manager after manager
into the scene but the glory years will not return. How many managers
has Antrim sent off to do the impossible? Meath cannot get out of
their barren run. It's over fifty years and probably over twenty
managers later, since Louth won a Leinster title.
Back in the
sixties and early seventies, Armagh had a whole series of managers,
good committed men who knew their football, people such as Mal McEvoy,
Paddy O'Hara, Jimmy Whan, Gerry O'Neill (first time) and Gene Larkin.
But they could make no impression whatsoever. Nor was it a problem of
administration because Armagh had administrators the equal of anybody
in Ireland. It was not a problem of management or administration as
such, but a lack of a system, that is, a well thought out structure
where a group of willing players could be moulded into a unit with a
fresh sense of ambition, adventure and momentum. The Gerry O'Neill who
managed Armagh 1970-72 made little impression. But the same Gerry
O'Neill who agreed to come back in 1974 after a new system had been set
up had the same Armagh players in an All-Ireland final in 1977 and won
two Ulster titles including Armagh first in 24 years. The manager is
only as effective as the structures and system allows.
By 1983,
that momentum had gone. The best efforts of subsequent mangers failed,
not from any lack of ability, or lack of good players, but because the
authorities did not take a deep stock of what was happening and
introduce some new radical thinking, a new system. It is the
responsibility of the County Board, not a manager to create the system
for the Board alone has the resources for such an enterprise.
Traditionally, a manager was thrown at a problem hugely bigger than a
manager can cope with. A solitary man and a few helpers are sent out
to create something that requires a large co-ordinated and motivated
team of people covering every aspect of team development. All he can
do on his own is a patchwork and piecemeal job, fitting the new into
the old, adding on to what he inherited, whereas the whole thing need
to be totally removed and a new structure built from fresh foundations.
Fr
Sean Hegarty knew his football inside out, was completely dedicated to
Armagh and had good players at his disposal. But the system he
inherited was burnt out and he had to work in the void I have
described. Paddy Moriarty and Joe Kernan, who followed also, knew
their football and had the respect of their considerable players, but
again it was a case of manager and players isolated from any new
dynamic. Jim McCorry and John Morrison, both Substantial thinkers
about the game spent four years trying to make something out of
Armagh. They too had very good players at their disposal. But the old
ship Armagh was no longer seaworthy and no matter how excellent the
captain or the crew, they were going to founder. That is what happened
against Derry at the Athletic Grounds in June 1995, the second collapse
in modern times. It was a watershed and it finally, and irrevocable
drew down the curtain on an age that had been on life support for a
long time.
Brian McAlinden, who entered the fray, was a radical
figure in his thinking about the kind of players he would choose and
the type of training they would do. McAlinden and Canavan created a
team of Spartans, of Red Branch Knights. But that on its own was not
enough. The critical thing is that this approach fitted inside a wider
County Board creation at the time as mentioned, the all important and
revolutionary Tactical Support Group, a back-up team amounting to the
GAA's first de-facto professional support team in county football. For
the first time since the collapse of 1974, and the initiative of Tommy
Lynch that same year, another collapse 21 years later led to a radical
new approach. And so the early steps in the creation of the greatest
of all Armagh sides were taken. It would not have happened, not, even
with the same players, had the new structures not been created. Within
this, the radical approach of Brian McAlinden and later Joe Kernan was
possible. It must be remembered that Armagh created the blanket
defence, copied by every other county. Everything between 1996 and the
lifting of the Sam Maguire in this county was radical, not merely for
Armagh, but for Gaelic football. But Armagh never fully resolved the
linkage with the full-forward line when Clarke and McDonnell were
forced to be target men as well as strikers. This meant that while
teams found it hard to score against us, we found it equally hard to
score against them. Despite the revolutionary approach, this ongoing
Achilles heel of linkage in attack arguably meant that we only won a
single All-Ireland instead of a possible three, in 2001, 2002 and
2003. But with Armagh's long and largely barren history of
All-Ireland's one Sam Maguire was an immense achievement, but
fulfilment of a great enterprise.
The revolution began to fade
as far back as 2003 and by 2005; having been almost ten years on the
road, was definitely showing serious cracks. So Armagh, even though we
kept winning in Ulster, were no longer All-Ireland standard, and the
old malaise spoken about previously had set in. The greatest of all
Armagh ships had become unseaworthy and was no longer capable of moving
from A to B.
Peter McDonnell, then, belongs to the long list of
Armagh managers who had to work in the vacuum I have described. He too
is a good manager and knows his football as they all did. He has won a
senior and U-21 and Club Ulster title, but the reality is that there is
no system to manage. He is ploughing a lone furrow like the vast
majority of his predecessors and neither he nor any other individual
will make any real difference as long as they are so isolated. There
is no life left in the Armagh senior set-up and there has been little
life there for a long time. The senior players, the remnant of the old
days, are a tired, ineffective lot. The new and newer players are
infected by this and by the insecurity of their places. There is no
sense of direction. I suggested in an article after the Wexford game
that the time was then ripe for Peter to draw down the curtain totally
on the ancient regime and start with totally new blood. It would have
made some difference in that we would have gone down with a bit more
fight and a bit more hope.
But that's not the kind of hope we
deeply need. We need the hope that will come from the County Board
making a radical move of taking proper stock and using the next five
months to create a totally new structure, another support team, and
working to bring and train players to a radical new level in every
way. We will only get out of the current low point when the County
Board, as in 1974 and 1995, formally set out to generate a new and
great Armagh team.
It is interesting to notice that none of the
younger players who have come into the panel in recent years have
developed or seem to have been tutored at all. They are still as raw,
un-coached, and uncertain as when they came into the side. In fact
some of them seem to have gone back.
It can only be imagined how
they would have been transformed had they went to the Aussie Rules
set-up. I cannot think of one whose game has improved as it should.
Again it takes a wide approach to enable real development to take place.
It
cannot be stressed enough that the problems of Armagh are not solvable
by a manager alone. The manager is the final things in the equation,
not the first. If Armagh were to bring in the greatest managerial
genius in Ireland, whoever that is, he would make no great difference
unless everything else was right.
The late Paddy O'Hara once
told me that he could make on impression with Armagh at all in his term
as manager. Good footballers, good fielders, nice lads, but they
always seemed to be strangers to each other, a group of individuals,
and he felt there was a part of them not really interested in being
there. This is the common state in a period of uncertainty and drift.
There was some of that in Clones against Monaghan.
I repeat for
what its worth. The immediate problem is re-creating a new and even
more radical version of what happened in 1995. Even though Armagh is
notorious of doing nothing until things collapse all around them, they
have always risen to the occasion. In the middle of the Troubles, in
the seventies and early eighties, a new Armagh reached an All-Ireland
final won three Ulster's despite ongoing disruption of training. In
the mid-nineties after the Derry debacle, we got ourselves together as
never before and created the greatest times we have ever had. But
create is the word. It is in the spirit of these two periods of
renaissance that we must now move ahead, and this county has five
precious months in which to ring in a new order of things.
Taken from another forum...dont know if this has been posted before. Apologies if it has.
Good article. Makem always makes a lot of sense and knows what he's talking about. He was one of the key men behind the resurgence of Armagh football back in the mid 70s at a time when the county could hardly field a side, and went on manage Armagh to the Ulster title in 82.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2009, 07:26:11 PM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 28, 2009, 06:46:26 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2009, 05:17:29 PM
Who took the Monaghan training session before the game that seemed to cause a bit of fuss??
Who?
Wha?
Lol im actually asking who? I dont know for sure, have someone in mind tho.
Quote from: Armamike on July 28, 2009, 08:55:53 PM
Disappointed in Peter McDonnell and the stuff he's come out with - he's not really doing the county and himself any good and only opening himself up to questions about who he's referring to. In the long run hopefully this will be the wake up call the county board and the whole set up needs, to start moving in the right direction again and to put in place the right structures and environment needed for success.
If the truth comes out it will be good for the county. No matter about his managerial performance, if you were undermined as he has been would you not want to make it known to everyone?
The county is in a dier state and the only way to move forward successfully is for the truth to come out for all Armagh gaels to hear it. That is the only way it will be sorted out and the only way the control of a small few over the county can be broken.
He is right to feel aggrieved and I hope he keeps at it and continues to force people to ask these questions.
Quote
The county is in a dier state and the only way to move forward successfully is for the truth to come out for all Armagh gaels to hear it. That is the only way it will be sorted out and the only way the control of a small few over the county can be broken.
agree with that, cloak and dager stuff around his appointment helped created this mess, time to clear the air, let everyone have their say and then move on. It's the only way.
Anyone that's ever been a Co Board meeting under the current incumbents will tell you the chances of that happening are zilcho! Anyone who has the cheek to mention will be shouted down from the top table, how dare you etc.. :-[ :-[
I was hoping Eddie Hughes would rattle a few cages, but not this time I reckon.
ross and dj for the armagh job
Quote from: naka on July 29, 2009, 10:02:28 AM
ross and dj for the armagh job
The contract for cutting the grass in the Mall has already been handed out.
Benny Tierney in today's Irish News.
I'm chomping to be Armagh's big cheese
On a more important note (as opposed to a 'lighter' note), I am now officially letting my name go forward for the Armagh job and I fully expect to get it.
I have already secured big sponsorship from Burger King and, unlike other county teams, my training mantra will be somewhat different. We will not train on any occasion, but will still go to La Manga for team bonding sessions and, regarding matches, we will just meet on the day and the first 15 to turn up starts. We would win nothing, but, sure, we would have some craic!
QuoteI have already secured big sponsorship from Burger King
Big Benny to replace Big Joe?
Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2009, 08:28:07 PM
QuoteI have already secured big sponsorship from Burger King
Big Benny to replace Big Joe?
I heard Joe has put pressure on Burger King now though and they're pulling out of any sponsorship agreement with Benny.
Quote from: slievegullion on July 29, 2009, 08:56:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2009, 08:28:07 PM
QuoteI have already secured big sponsorship from Burger King
Big Benny to replace Big Joe?
I heard Joe has put pressure on Burger King now though and they're pulling out of any sponsorship agreement with Benny.
:D :D
Quote from: mackers on July 29, 2009, 09:10:01 PM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 29, 2009, 08:56:56 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 29, 2009, 08:28:07 PM
QuoteI have already secured big sponsorship from Burger King
Big Benny to replace Big Joe?
I heard Joe has put pressure on Burger King now though and they're pulling out of any sponsorship agreement with Benny.
:D :D
We'd be All Ireland champions with them two if they were handed out for eating the most burgers.
Burger King ? What about Mc Donnell's ?? ;) They do a nice auld burger as well.
Did anyone hear Enda McNulty on RTE about 12.30? He said that he would like to go into management, but not for a couple of years.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8183607.stm
Kildare boss and former Armagh captain Kieran McGeeney has ruled himself out of becoming the new Orchard manager.
McGeeney, who led the Ulster team to All-Ireland glory in 2002, wants to remain with the Lillywhites.
"I said I would stick it for three years and if they want me next year I'll be here for another one," he said.
"Myself and Armagh had our talk two years ago and they told me what they told me - and what they told me was good enough for me."
McGeeney's emerging team reached this year's All-Ireland quarter-finals before losing narrowly to champions Tyrone.
Justin McNulty, another former Armagh defender, is interested in taking over from Peter McDonnell as the new county manager.
The All-Ireland winner took Mullahoran to the Cavan club title in 2006 and guided St Brigid's to the Dublin final a year later.
Paul Grimley, who was pipped for the job by McDonnell last time round, is a strong contender even though he is currently McGeeney's assistant at Kildare.
Former Orchard boss Joe Kernan has opted against going for the job because of business commitments and possible antagonism with having four sons in the Orchard panel.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 01, 2009, 07:01:46 PM
Did anyone hear Enda McNulty on RTE about 12.30? He said that he would like to go into management, but not for a couple of years.
Did he retire yet?
Think he's still warming up for the Monaghan match!! :D
Quote from: Diet Coke on August 04, 2009, 03:36:38 PM
Think he's still warming up for the Monaghan match!! :D
:D :D
Was he warming up or cooling down?
Heard Dyas is coming home. Big boost if he does. That might be old news though.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 04, 2009, 05:32:14 PM
Heard Dyas is coming home. Big boost if he does. That might be old news though.
Where did you hear this?
Quote"Myself and Armagh had our talk two years ago and they told me what they told me - and what they told me was good enough for me."
Wonder what this means? Was Geezer advised to go and get his experience elsewhere and that the job would be his in the future?
He wanted to continue playing, as a player coach under Grimley, and was told he should retire and the job was given to McDonnell...
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 04, 2009, 06:04:10 PM
He wanted to continue playing, as a player coach under Grimley, and was told he should retire and the job was given to McDonnell...
That was my understanding
Also in the mix was Rafferty who had been brought in the previous year to the backroom team
Quote from: full back on August 04, 2009, 05:49:33 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 04, 2009, 05:32:14 PM
Heard Dyas is coming home. Big boost if he does. That might be old news though.
Where did you hear this?
An Armagh man told me. He's never been wrong before. Don't think its working out over there.
Quote from: JMohan on August 04, 2009, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 04, 2009, 06:04:10 PM
He wanted to continue playing, as a player coach under Grimley, and was told he should retire and the job was given to McDonnell...
That was my understanding
Also in the mix was Rafferty who had been brought in the previous year to the backroom team
Had never heard that he was told to retire. My understanding was just that he didn't approve of the management decision and decided he wanted to retire. So you think he comments should be construed in a negative light (i.e. they didn't want me in 2007, I don't want them now?)
Good Riddance.
He was definitely asked to retire.
If Dyas comes back, that will be another big defection from Aussie rules.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 04, 2009, 05:32:14 PM
Heard Dyas is coming home. Big boost if he does. That might be old news though.
Uunfortunately not, if only.
He is playing week in, week out in the VFL intent on breaking into the first team squad.
Quote from: JMohan on August 04, 2009, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 04, 2009, 06:04:10 PM
He wanted to continue playing, as a player coach under Grimley, and was told he should retire and the job was given to McDonnell...
That was my understanding
Also in the mix was Rafferty who had been brought in the previous year to the backroom team
I heard that boy told the Armagh players that year that they weren't allowed to talk to Grimley that year. if it's true then all he was was a yes man to Kernan so can't think for himself, wouldn't have him near the management again!!
Theres absolutely no chance of Geezer & big Paul coming back. Was talking to a member of the Kildare county board at the Tyrone match & the figures he quoted me them guys were getting shocked me. Armagh would not have anywhere near that kind of mulla at their disposal
I actually think that Grimley could be a divisive figure now in any case. Better to come in a few years when the original row will be overshadowed by his achievements in Kildare. With 4 Kernans on the panel and genuine debate about whether 3 of them should play he would be open to allegations of bias, whether this was true or not. The problem is where is there a good managerial candidate in here and now? Dublin's performance against Kerry indicated the quality of Armagh leadership, by manager and players, in 2000 we had the confidence to put it up to Kerry and this let us push on for another point or two in 2002.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on August 06, 2009, 01:04:16 PM
Theres absolutely no chance of Geezer & big Paul coming back. Was talking to a member of the Kildare county board at the Tyrone match & the figures he quoted me them guys were getting shocked me. Armagh would not have anywhere near that kind of mulla at their disposal
I thought it was expenses only ?? ;)
QuoteI thought it was expenses only ??
Of course, a good Kerryman John O'Donoghue is advising on the proper expense rate. :)
Of course they're being very well taken care of.
But everyone knows people are well taken care of in coaching - especially Ulster.
E 3,100 is a nice monthly salary to be taking home for a coach isn't it?
I still expect Armagh to pull out all the stops for Grimley and make a big effort.
My bet is he will go too.
Quote from: JMohan on August 06, 2009, 03:06:46 PM
Of course they're being very well taken care of.
But everyone knows people are well taken care of in coaching - especially Ulster.
E 3,100 is a nice monthly salary to be taking home for a coach isn't it?I still expect Armagh to pull out all the stops for Grimley and make a big effort.
My bet is he will go too.
Where did that figure come from ?
Quote from: corn02 on August 05, 2009, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 04, 2009, 05:32:14 PM
Heard Dyas is coming home. Big boost if he does. That might be old news though.
Uunfortunately not, if only.
He is playing week in, week out in the VFL intent on breaking into the first team squad.
Well I heard that breaking into the first squad has to happen soon- otherwise he's coming home.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 06, 2009, 03:11:56 PM
Quote from: corn02 on August 05, 2009, 07:25:20 AM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 04, 2009, 05:32:14 PM
Heard Dyas is coming home. Big boost if he does. That might be old news though.
Uunfortunately not, if only.
He is playing week in, week out in the VFL intent on breaking into the first team squad.
Well I heard that breaking into the first squad has to happen soon- otherwise he's coming home.
So he isnt coming home then ???
He's there 2 years now and he hasn't made a first team squad- his contract is up at the end of the season and from what i was told he's not expected to make the breakthrough at this stage of the year. They will have to offer him a new contract and I can't see them doing that unless he breaks into the first team squad. If he's not offered a new contract he's coming home. Granted he's been plaugued with injuries. Thats what I was told. And if my source is wrong- its the first time he's been wrong on anything to do with Armagh football.
Very few players are making it over there- even martin clarke has had a very difficult season
So if they dont offer him a new contract he is coming home...........
You should be writing headlines in the 'Star' ;)
Of his two years in aussie rules he spent 12 months of it out with a career threatening injury. They have nursed him back thru the vfl in the second half of this season and won't rush him into the firsts now. your sources are very wrong as he already has a pro contract on the table.
Quote from: orangeman on August 06, 2009, 03:10:21 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 06, 2009, 03:06:46 PM
Of course they're being very well taken care of.
But everyone knows people are well taken care of in coaching - especially Ulster.
E 3,100 is a nice monthly salary to be taking home for a coach isn't it?I still expect Armagh to pull out all the stops for Grimley and make a big effort.
My bet is he will go too.
Where did that figure come from ?
They aren't getting that - but one coach I know is
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2009, 01:24:27 PM
I actually think that Grimley could be a divisive figure now in any case. Better to come in a few years when the original row will be overshadowed by his achievements in Kildare. With 4 Kernans on the panel and genuine debate about whether 3 of them should play he would be open to allegations of bias, whether this was true or not. The problem is where is there a good managerial candidate in here and now? Dublin's performance against Kerry indicated the quality of Armagh leadership, by manager and players, in 2000 we had the confidence to put it up to Kerry and this let us push on for another point or two in 2002.
There's a big assumption floating around that the 4 of them will be on the panel next year! Nobody knows who's going to be on the panel yet.
QuoteThere's a big assumption floating around that the 4 of them will be on the panel next year! Nobody knows who's going to be on the panel yet.
Well Aaron is pretty much a regular, he is not the first one you would replace. The others are certainly in contention for a panel place, whatever way you look at it. The point is that it would be better if the manager was seen not to have a particular issue with them, or any other player, one way or the other.
Quote from: ONeill on July 21, 2009, 06:42:19 PM
Jody Gormley to take them back to division 4 and the revolution is complete.
Send them down to aughrim, that'll sort 'em
Just a thought. A fortnight ago, all these people were in the running for Armagh job
Brian McAlinden
Joe Kernan
Kieran McGeeney
John Rafferty
Paul Grimley
And more
As time moves on, most of the first four have ruled themselves out. Justin McNulty has indicated he's interested, but he is untested at this level, Grimley has said nothing but the Kildare job is really his only source of income at the moment (I think) so i can't see him taking it.
Are we now in a worse position than if we had tried to convince PMcD to hang on to the job? At least he knows the players, regardless of what some might say, he is not a bad manager and he was entitled to three years. I think this whole thing happened too fast. As time went on, e should be thankful that we went out to Monaghan by a point rather than suffer the Donegal hammering which would take a lot longer for theplayers to get over because it happened in the full glare of CP.
We all should have taken a break until about now before anyone moved and then just continued with Peter.
As it is now, we might end up with a yellow pack manager or someone very inexperienced.
Quote from: Seany on August 08, 2009, 09:51:34 AM
Grimley has said nothing but the Kildare job is really his only source of income at the moment (I think) so i can't see him taking it.
He was also involved in Clontibtret in Monaghan and also with DCU
IMO
Grimley will be the next manager
If he wasn't interested he'd have said so long ago, it will just come down to other issues and agreeing on expenses and who else he can bring in with him as a backroom team.
I think it's inevitable.
Quote from: The GAA on August 06, 2009, 03:43:40 PM
Of his two years in aussie rules he spent 12 months of it out with a career threatening injury. They have nursed him back thru the vfl in the second half of this season and won't rush him into the firsts now. your sources are very wrong as he already has a pro contract on the table.
:o :o :o indiana wrong no way, isn't he allways right ?
Quote from: The GAA on August 06, 2009, 03:43:40 PM
Of his two years in aussie rules he spent 12 months of it out with a career threatening injury. They have nursed him back thru the vfl in the second half of this season and won't rush him into the firsts now. your sources are very wrong as he already has a pro contract on the table.
Well, I suppose we'll not be seeing him in an Armagh jersey anytime soon so. How long of a contract was he offered?
heard that "mc Grane" is the independant overseer in relation to the selection of a new manager
He was bound to be. right man for it too.
Irish Times
GAVIN CUMMISKEY
WITH KIERAN McGeeney committing to Kildare for at least another season and Joe Kernan having already ruled himself out of the race to succeed Peter McDonnell as Armagh football manager, Paul Grimley has become the natural front-runner for the position.
The county board meet tonight to finalise a committee that will be charged with finding the best candidate. The executive will be joined by a club representative and an "independent overseer" to ensure the process runs smoothly after two disappointing campaigns under McDonnell, who initially saw off Grimley for the position in 2007.
Grimley, a highly-respected coach, was Kernan's assistant when they captured their only All-Ireland title in 2002 and went on to fill a similar role with Cavan before following McGeeney to Kildare as his assistant.
"Paul Grimley would certainly be considered if nominated," said Armagh chairman Kevin Brady yesterday.
Unlike other county recruitment processes, a candidate cannot be nominated without agreeing to it in the first place.
"Nomination forms have been prepared and the signature of the nominee is required," explained Brady.
"Joe Kernan has ruled himself out and Kieran McGeeney is not interested at this point in time as he wishes to fulfil his commitment to Kildare which has one year left."
Grimley also has another season to run with the Kildare management team but after three successive stints as a number two to an intercounty manager the opportunity to take charge in his native province would be considered.
"There has been no approach and I certainly haven't sought the job," said Grimley.
"I remain very much part of the Kildare set-up. I'd say I was certainly interested at some stage but whether it is an option now is questionable.
"It is well known that I went for the job two years ago and didn't get it. As far as I'm concerned it passed me by at that point."
So wonder when they foresee the whole thing being finished by? A 3 week job - or will this drag on for months?
I don't think anyone from Kildare would begrudge Paul Grimley the chance to manage Armagh. However, he does still seem to be bitter over what happened during the last selection process and that might give us some hope of hanging on to him. I'd be hopeful enough that Geezer might be able to convince him to stick with Kildare for another year. From talking to lads on the panel, he is very popular among the players and he'd be a big loss to the managerial set up by all accounts.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 12, 2009, 02:58:02 PM
"Joe Kernan has ruled himself out and Kieran McGeeney is not interested at this point in time as he wishes to fulfil his commitment to Kildare which has one year left."
Why mention this?
Will Geezer make himself available to the Armagh set-up after his tenure with Kildare is up?
Seems a bit strange for Brady to say this
Quote from: full back on August 12, 2009, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 12, 2009, 02:58:02 PM
"Joe Kernan has ruled himself out and Kieran McGeeney is not interested at this point in time as he wishes to fulfil his commitment to Kildare which has one year left."
Why mention this?
Will Geezer make himself available to the Armagh set-up after his tenure with Kildare is up?
Seems a bit strange for Brady to say this
Wouldn't read that much significance into it, its seems to be just an acknowledgment that McGeeney was off limits as he's well into a job elsewhere. Anyway, even if McGeeney does leave the Kildare job next year it would be hard to see him walking straight into the Armagh one, as whatever manager we appoint now will be around for at least a couple of years. Unless he comes back up to work under Grimley :)
Quote from: AFS on August 12, 2009, 04:12:58 PM
Quote from: full back on August 12, 2009, 03:58:51 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 12, 2009, 02:58:02 PM
"Joe Kernan has ruled himself out and Kieran McGeeney is not interested at this point in time as he wishes to fulfil his commitment to Kildare which has one year left."
Why mention this?
Will Geezer make himself available to the Armagh set-up after his tenure with Kildare is up?
Seems a bit strange for Brady to say this
Wouldn't read that much significance into it, its seems to be just an acknowledgment that McGeeney was off limits as he's well into a job elsewhere. Anyway, even if McGeeney does leave the Kildare job next year it would be hard to see him walking straight into the Armagh one, as whatever manager we appoint now will be around for at least a couple of years. Unless he comes back up to work under Grimley :)
Or work with Grimley :o
Wouldnt put something like this past the CB, but I would like to think Geezer wouldnt be interested in that sort of arrangement
rumour and orchardcounty has it that 5 manselection panal is as follows
independent chair---Dr Eugene Young
ex-county player--Paul Mc Grane
Club Rep--- Gerard Davidson ( I think he is an og`s man)
county chair/secretary
nominations in by 28 August
clubs to nominate candidates and candidates must countersign the nomination form
have to say the county board are trying to be fair and open with this pocess
Quote from: naka on August 13, 2009, 10:45:13 AM
rumour and orchardcounty has it that 5 manselection panal is as follows
independent chair---Dr Eugene Young
ex-county player--Paul Mc Grane
Club Rep--- Gerard Davidson ( I think he is an og`s man)
county chair/secretary
nominations in by 28 August
clubs to nominate candidates and candidates must countersign the nomination form
have to say the county board are trying to be fair and open with this pocess
Wasn't he on the committee to pick the last Derry manager - i.e. Cassidy ????
Not following this closely - did I miss it or did McDonnell ever come out with his much hyped, threatened blow-the-lid statement?
Quote from: Hardy on August 13, 2009, 11:02:40 AM
Not following this closely - did I miss it or did McDonnell ever come out with his much hyped, threatened blow-the-lid statement?
No, his ambiguity leaves it open to much speculation still though, personally he would have been better saying zip.
You'd have thought they'd have found a place for one of the 2 Brians on that selection panel in an effort to draw a line under the scandal and perceived continuing influence of the post-Kernan era.
Quote from: under the bar on August 13, 2009, 02:19:01 PM
You'd have thought they'd have found a place for one of the 2 Brians on that selection panel in an effort to draw a line under the scandal and perceived continuing influence of the post-Kernan era.
might have caused a little difficulty as mc alinden may still be a candidate( no matter what the papers say)
QuoteYou'd have thought they'd have found a place for one of the 2 Brians on that selection panel in an effort to draw a line under the scandal and perceived continuing influence of the post-Kernan era.
might have caused a little difficulty as mc alinden may still be a candidate( no matter what the papers say)
No better man (men) for a rebuilding job. The 2 Brians built the team that JK took all the credit for and then ran into the ground.
Davidson is an Ogs man alright if its the same one
I'm worried here - seriously worried as the prospects are not great. It wasn thrown about earlier that we were too apprehensive in outing PMD and it could come back to bite Armagh.
Iceman, it has the potential to split Armagh if it isn't done right this time
McD had a tough qualifier draw had we beaten Monaghan!!
Too much talk.
Neil Smyth is the man!!
IF Gerard Davidson is on the selection panel then Grimley would virtually be nailed on for the job.............
Quote from: Apple Crumble on August 13, 2009, 07:59:38 PM
McD had a tough qualifier draw had we beaten Monaghan!!
Too much talk.
Neil Smyth is the man!!
Clearly a wind up!
QuoteIF Gerard Davidson is on the selection panel then Grimley would virtually be nailed on for the job.............
Does anyone know for sure that Grimley has put his name forward?
I don't think he would put his name forward this time, however if he was asked to, that's a different matter...
Would there be anyone against Grimley taking over? - Kernans?
From what I understand... A couple of the senior players have been on the phone to him asking him to take over!
listen boys, Grimley & Geezer are on serious mulla down in Kildare. I am not sure Armagh has that kind of readies avaiable. That said big Paul had all his backing etc sorted the last time....
Interesting piece in the Irish News today, Grimley doesn't want to go through the interview process which is understandable. I think he clearly wants the job but just doesn't want to be shafted like the last time. I know procedures have to be followed but heaven and earth should be moved to make sure he gets it.........the players want him.............the vast majority of the clubs want him...........he wants the job.............go figure!!
If Grimley wants the no 1 job he needs to take it now, the next time the job comes up Geezer will be the top candidate if his star continues to rise with Kildare.
Neil Smyth I tell ya!!!!
Grimley (Fergy)
Neil Smyth (Shankly)
John Toner (Mourhino)
Dream Team
why all the hysteria at the minute. i,m sure that mc grane and davidson will offer a lot to the selection panel and the clubs still have to ratify any manager before appointment. its a far better set-up than the last time hopefully.
With regards Grimley being asked, anyone who's name is put forward has to be asked before they can be nominated by a club?
Thing that would interest me would be the backroom team. Under JK, we had an exceptional back room team. There was a story of how CB helped finance John McCloskey to goto Australia for Rugby World cup to see how international teams trained. Under prevous back room staff, apparently there was a 10% discount for players on ice cream at a well known filling station in Armagh!
only 10%,tight git,but the rumour was if you had a bad game you got whipped and a decent game you got a poke! ;)
the thing i dont get with the selection panel is who has the final say on the position.
if the selection panel put forward their candidate, does this have to go to a vote of club delegates? what happens if this is rejected? will the "2 choice" still want the job knowing he is not the man that was originally wanted?
Quote from: pearseog on August 15, 2009, 02:01:36 AM
the thing i dont get with the selection panel is who has the final say on the position.
if the selection panel put forward their candidate, does this have to go to a vote of club delegates? what happens if this is rejected? will the "2 choice" still want the job knowing he is not the man that was originally wanted?
Clubs have the final say I think. My take on the whole thing is that public opinion within the county will become so overwhelming during the process that any other credible candidate will withdraw at one stage or another leaving Grimley the only possible (and by far the most suitable) choice.
Has the thought occurred to anyone that Geezer by himself won't be able to do half the job he's currently doing with Kildare if he no longer has Grimley as his right hand man? Surely this has crossed the minds of the lads in Kildare and could be a possible factor in Grimley staying put?
I do. I suspect Grimley has had a bigger impact on Kildare's play than McGeeney, his experience as part of a management team and from the other side of the line would have been invaluable IMO
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
That could possibly be true but i think armagh are ripe for progress now.
Next time round will be at least 3 years down the line.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
I think he'd rather take them now than 2 years time when they're 2 years worse down the line
Quote from: JMohan on August 15, 2009, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
I think he'd rather take them now than 2 years time when they're 2 years worse down the line
I disagree the best footballers in Armagh are currently between 17-20 years of age. Maybe you're right he'd be better taking them now. But he will have to do a lot of bloodletting if he takes it- and I think that would be difficult for him to do personally due to past relationships.
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
But thats when Big Joe has himself primed to come back as gaffer!!
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 01:53:50 PM
Quote from: JMohan on August 15, 2009, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
I think he'd rather take them now than 2 years time when they're 2 years worse down the line
I disagree the best footballers in Armagh are currently between 17-20 years of age. Maybe you're right he'd be better taking them now. But he will have to do a lot of bloodletting if he takes it- and I think that would be difficult for him to do personally due to past relationships.
What blood letting? I'd say Enda McNulty and Aidan O'Rourke will go of their own violition over the winter. After that there's nobody else of an age where they don't still ahve a contribution to make. Stevie may consider quitting but if he doesn't he'll be well worth his place on the team next year. Marty O'Rourke may be under pressure for his place but you expect that. He'd still be useful to have in the squad. Its not as though 5 or 6 of the current minor team are going to be starting next year. Progress is a lot more gradual than that.
Quote from: Yes I Would on August 15, 2009, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
But thats when Big Joe has himself primed to come back as gaffer!!
I heard big Joe has his eye on another job ;) ;).
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on August 15, 2009, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
But thats when Big Joe has himself primed to come back as gaffer!!
I heard big Joe has his eye on another job ;) ;).
I'd say you heard wrong then
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on August 15, 2009, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
Cant see it. Mc Donnell & the next man just keeping the hot seat warm.. Thats why Grimley wont be foolish enough to be another shoert term scapegoat.. Armagh should have a squad in 2 /3 years capable of being a competive force again, and Joe knows this. County Board wouldnt have the stones to appoint Grimley over Kernan at that stage!!
But thats when Big Joe has himself primed to come back as gaffer!!
I heard big Joe has his eye on another job ;) ;).
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 15, 2009, 03:02:36 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Yes I Would on August 15, 2009, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on August 15, 2009, 10:56:14 AM
Quote from: The GAA on August 15, 2009, 10:54:21 AM
McGeeney has had Grimley with him for two years so i'd say he has picked up what he needed to at this stage. It actually could be perfect for McGeeney as bringing in a new number two now could freshen his approach and that of the players. third year is always the most difficult for any management team after players become too used to them and the set up.
I think Grimley would be a huge loss to Kildare- I also believe Grimley would be better off taking the Armagh job next time round. ie 2 years from now .
But thats when Big Joe has himself primed to come back as gaffer!!
I heard big Joe has his eye on another job ;) ;).
I'd say you heard wrong then
Not this time mate. I heard right. Its no secret what other job he covets the most.
Indiana - i don't mind you letting all you're all knowledgable about football in every other county but when you present half assed gossip as fact on the armagh thread, particularly when we know better, it's more annoying. stop pretending to be martin mchugh.
The best footballers in armagh are between 17 and 20? give me a break. thats a sloppy assumption because armagh currently have a decent minor and u21 side. good minor teams provide about 1 or 2 starters long term to a senior side.
Joe does not want the dublin job. it doesn't pay. that's a two year old rumour for two year olds. he wants the armagh job again in 2 or 3 years.
Quote from: The GAA on August 16, 2009, 11:20:52 AM
Indiana - i don't mind you letting all you're all knowledgable about football in every other county but when you present half assed gossip as fact on the armagh thread, particularly when we know better, it's more annoying. stop pretending to be martin mchugh.
The best footballers in armagh are between 17 and 20? give me a break. thats a sloppy assumption because armagh currently have a decent minor and u21 side. good minor teams provide about 1 or 2 starters long term to a senior side.
Joe does not want the dublin job. it doesn't pay. that's a two year old rumour for two year olds. he wants the armagh job again in 2 or 3 years.
Listen mate you're entitled to your opinion on my knowledge on things. But we'll see who is right won't we? I don't put up things for effect.
You've an awful lot of mates, Indiana.
Quote from: Hardy on August 16, 2009, 12:13:45 PM
You've an awful lot of mates, Indiana.
In truth i've none ;D. Certainly not here anyway.
JK doesn't want any other county/team - ask anyone from Cross and they will tell you, he wouldn't manage any other team while his sons are playing for Cross and Armagh
It's well known throughout the county and beyond, although obviously Indiana knows better than JK himself
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 16, 2009, 05:59:03 PM
JK doesn't want any other county/team - ask anyone from Cross and they will tell you, he wouldn't manage any other team while his sons are playing for Cross and Armagh
It's well known throughout the county and beyond, although obviously Indiana knows better than JK himself
Absolutely as Manuel out of Fawlty Towers would say "I know nothing". ;D :D
Quote from: INDIANA on August 16, 2009, 06:02:41 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 16, 2009, 05:59:03 PM
JK doesn't want any other county/team - ask anyone from Cross and they will tell you, he wouldn't manage any other team while his sons are playing for Cross and Armagh
It's well known throughout the county and beyond, although obviously Indiana knows better than JK himself
Absolutely as Manuel out of Fawlty Towers would say "I know nothing". ;D :D
You have your sources Indiana, but I can assure you mine would be closer to the truth than yours and Joe will not be taking that job now nor for the next 10 years!
I have a feeling mcgeeney will take the dublin job next year after his kildare contract runs out
I think Mcgeeney and Grimley would nuts to come back to the swamp of politics that surrounds the armagh set up at the minute. they are loved down in Kildare and although this year they had a good year it think it is only prt of an upward spiral were they will come back better again next year.
I think another 2/3 years Geezer and Grimley would be ripe for the armagh job. But not this time round
Quote from: tyroneman on August 17, 2009, 10:00:33 AM
I have a feeling mcgeeney will take the dublin job next year after his kildare contract runs out
Don't think that will happen. There's too many elements within Dublin GAA that won't accept an outside manager. I think if Kildare were to really give the All-Ireland a right rattle next year (please God!), McGeeney would give it another go in 2011. If we fail to improve on this year's effort, I'd say he'll be on his way.
Any word from Armagh on whether Paul Grimley has thrown is hat into the ring for the job?
donnellys hollow - hasn't ruled himself out but the signals are that he wants to be approached as a sole candidate. he doesn't want to go through the selection panel again after they shafted him 2 years ago. any team grimley has been over he always seems to be well respected both by players and by fans. how is he regarded down in kildare?
Very well regarded. He's very popular among the players according to the few lads that I'd know on the panel. You could see at the Leinster Final when McGrillen was substituted early on, it was Grimley that went over to him to give him a few words of reassurance.
It would be a shame to lose him from our management but no one down here would begrudge him the chance to take over his own county.
Right I'm making my prediction: If Grimley doesn't get the job then it will be Brian McAlinden.
p.s. I know the papers say he has ruled himself out but you just never know with McAlinden, he would use that of a way to stop needless media attention on him and his family.
Prediction time....I'll go with Neil Smyth, Martin McQuillan and Kieran McGurk. ;)
Quote from: Diet Coke on August 17, 2009, 09:14:05 PM
Prediction time....I'll go with Neil Smyth, Martin McQuillan and Kieran McGurk. ;)
I'd go wth those. What experience do they have at management?
Quote from: Orior on August 17, 2009, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on August 17, 2009, 09:14:05 PM
Prediction time....I'll go with Neil Smyth, Martin McQuillan and Kieran McGurk. ;)
I'd go wth those. What experience do they have at management?
mcgurk is over sarsfields i think, mcquillan was still playing this year with cullyhanna b's and neil smyth as far as i know has just been with mullaghbawn under age and armagh development squads. cant see this happening to be honest.
Quote from: qub la la la on August 17, 2009, 09:33:36 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 17, 2009, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: Diet Coke on August 17, 2009, 09:14:05 PM
Prediction time....I'll go with Neil Smyth, Martin McQuillan and Kieran McGurk. ;)
I'd go wth those. What experience do they have at management?
mcgurk is over sarsfields i think, mcquillan was still playing this year with cullyhanna b's and neil smyth as far as i know has just been with
mullaghbawn under age and armagh development squads. cant see this happening to be honest.
So JK wants the Down job? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Prediction time?
I wouldn't be surprised if Wee James McCartan appears on the horizon.
Quote from: thewobbler on August 17, 2009, 11:26:58 PM
Prediction time?
I wouldn't be surprised if Wee James McCartan appears on the horizon.
Assume you mean as part of Grimley's backroom team?
What's the deadline or time frame for a decision or for the interview process?
Quote from: thewobbler on August 17, 2009, 11:26:58 PM
Prediction time?
I wouldn't be surprised if Wee James McCartan appears on the horizon.
Would he not be high on the wanted list with down?
Quote from: The GAA on August 18, 2009, 10:50:44 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 17, 2009, 11:26:58 PM
Prediction time?
I wouldn't be surprised if Wee James McCartan appears on the horizon.
Would he not be high on the wanted list with down?
High but possibly only second.
Michaela & Marke Harte dream team. If they even brought a smattering of Mickey's pearls of wisdom they'd enhance Armagh's prospects no-end! ;)
Quote from: under the bar on August 18, 2009, 11:56:20 AM
Michaela & Marke Harte dream team. If they even brought a smattering of Mickey's pearls of wisdom they'd enhance Armagh's prospects no-end! ;)
I'm sure your beloved Micky would love you mocking his daughter and son.
Me mocking Mickey's mini-mes? never!
Whatever happened Mark Harte...there's a name i haven't heard of in a while.
Received this info from ONL today. He told me to post that Tony Kernan was in the bookies earlier today asking for odds on the next Armagh manager, specifically Grimley and his da!
mark harte wasn't good enough for the tyrone team. think he still plays for his club. he's a teacher in st.pats grammar in armagh along with his more esteemed cousin davy
Quote from: pearseog on August 23, 2009, 02:22:33 PM
mark harte wasn't good enough for the tyrone team. think he still plays for his club. he's a teacher in st.pats grammar in armagh along with his more esteemed cousin davy
So why is he wearing a
Physio polo-top ever Sunday for Tyrone?
By the way
If Grimley is going for the job ... anyone know who is in his backroom team?
I's think that's important
Lot of money being placed on one man over the weekend by people close to the Armagh set up. I`d say the decision has alreay been made. Mate of mine is a big gambler and has money on it now as well.
Maybe the CB should do that too as they'll need it for him I'd say
Quote from: Cúig huaire on August 23, 2009, 06:15:43 PM
Lot of money being placed on one man over the weekend by people close to the Armagh set up. I`d say the decision has alreay been made. Mate of mine is a big gambler and has money on it now as well.
And who would that be?
Quote from: Cúig huaire on August 23, 2009, 06:15:43 PM
Lot of money being placed on one man over the weekend by people close to the Armagh set up. I`d say the decision has alreay been made. Mate of mine is a big gambler and has money on it now as well.
::)
After watching today's game I wish we had the man who does the fitness training for Cork, those big lads could cover some ground. Things like fitness are an important part of the package.
Quote from: JMohan on August 23, 2009, 05:30:58 PM
Quote from: pearseog on August 23, 2009, 02:22:33 PM
mark harte wasn't good enough for the tyrone team. think he still plays for his club. he's a teacher in st.pats grammar in armagh along with his more esteemed cousin davy
So why is he wearing a Physio polo-top ever Sunday for Tyrone?
His brother...
Ah - right thanks
Looks the spitting image of him - twins?
Dromintee are shi*e
runour has it that there may be interest from the trio of
keiran mc gurk, neil smyth and martin mc quillan
u heard it hear first ;)
interest in all iireland final tickets and thats all, lets hope...
Quote from: naka on August 25, 2009, 11:46:05 AM
runour has it that there may be interest from the trio of
keiran mc gurk, neil smyth and martin mc quillan
u heard it hear first ;)
I hope not. I liked all 3 as players for Armagh but they don't have the necessary experience at county level that Armagh need
How long is it going to take them to make a decision?
Quote from: stew on August 25, 2009, 07:22:08 PM
How long is it going to take them to make a decision?
Maybe no one wants the job :D :D :D
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on August 25, 2009, 07:17:57 PM
Quote from: naka on August 25, 2009, 11:46:05 AM
runour has it that there may be interest from the trio of
keiran mc gurk, neil smyth and martin mc quillan
u heard it hear first ;)
I hope not. I liked all 3 as players for Armagh but they don't have the necessary experience at county level that Armagh need
I've heard that one as well. Bit of a strange one alright.
I hear its grimley's job if he wants it.
any news on a backroom team?
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 26, 2009, 01:23:38 AM
I hear its grimley's job if he wants it.
any news on a backroom team?
Lot of money went on Grimley over the weekend, if he had any sense he would stay where he is for at least another year.
Quote from: naka on August 25, 2009, 11:46:05 AM
runour has it that there may be interest from the trio of
keiran mc gurk, neil smyth and martin mc quillan
u heard it hear first ;)
This would be hilarious. I had Kieran McGurk as manager at club level. Truly awful. Great commitment too!!! He left us midseason in the middle of a relegation battle.
Told us all how great he was all the time. "I trained 19 nights training in my day, with a broken leg" All that type of crap. Would be good entertainment value. Go for it Armagh.
nominations from clubs dont close until friday. The selection committee will meet next week to discuss nominations and/or decide to approach other possible candidates if necessary. lets wait and see and dont jump the gun as it is to important to rush. we have the players.
Grimley leaving Kildare
He must have the Armagh position in the bag, although didnt he do this before when he was with Cavan & the CB shafted him?
Just heard from an Uncle who is connected - Grimley got the Armagh gig.
Sure the interview process has not even begun?
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 28, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
Sure the interview process has not even begun?
What interview process do you need if he's available?
the one they shouted from the roof tops about.
You think they should just say to the clubs "thanks for the work putting together the selection committee and sourcing and submitting nominations but we're not going to bother now. also, you clubs who nominated someone else, and you people who signed the nominations to allow your name to go forward, thanks also." ?
Just got it from a good source that aidan o'rourke will be number 2.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 28, 2009, 07:04:16 PM
Just got it from a good source that aidan o'rourke will be number 2.
I think that would be a mistake on Grimley's part if he did that to be honest. To go from playing with to playing for is quite difficult.
...and wait for this one.
Oisin might also be involved.
Quote from: botman on August 28, 2009, 03:55:05 PM
Just heard from an Uncle who is connected - Grimley got the Armagh gig.
Grimley has said that he;s very happy being no.2 in Kildare and I can't see him moving. He's in the last year of his contract in Kildare and will be wanting give it a lash in 2010. From what I'm hearing, they're already training for next year.
Quote from: DuffleKing on August 28, 2009, 07:04:16 PM
Just got it from a good source that aidan o'rourke will be number 2.
I assume that's said with tounge firmly in cheek. Not a reflection on AOR, but I dont think their relationship was that good.
Don't think you're right with that benny. either way i don't think its a good idea with being close to players and having brothers on the team.
here we are questioning grimley already...
Quote from: Seany on August 28, 2009, 07:50:12 PM
...and wait for this one.
Oisin might also be involved.
What are the odds on that happening?
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2009, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: Seany on August 28, 2009, 07:50:12 PM
...and wait for this one.
Oisin might also be involved.
What are the odds on that happening?
I heard from my uncle who is also connected (is it the same uncle??).
Jm McConville will be his #2
I heard, from a reliable source, big Joe was going to be his number 2.
is it a coincidence that big joes name is suddenly being connected with another county when armagh look to have got their man? ;)
Heard also Grimley left kildare
If any McConville was to be involved the only likely candidate would be Packie. I hope whoever gets it that is a clear, transparent set up so that there can be no people taking behind their hands if it doesn't work out.
While I know he was respected by the players it is important that Grimely, if he gets it, has the right people around him. He was a great no 2 for Armagh and kildare but no 1 is a different ball game and the shit lands at his feet when things go wrong. You need to be the right kind of person to deal with that and also have people you trust around you, something which I think was lacking in recent years.
I heard that grimley has Marty McElkennon lined up as assistant.
Quote from: Shortso79 on August 28, 2009, 11:15:39 PM
Heard also Grimley left kildare
well he has gone. in yesterdays irish news!
Quote from: yellowcard on August 30, 2009, 03:34:13 PM
I heard that grimley has Marty McElkennon lined up as assistant.
Not a hope
Restart discussion. Do we have some candidates?
Justin McNulty?
Will Armagh consider an 'outsider' now for this position?
McCartan?
What happened with Grimley? I was told it was a done deal, so much so that a friend of mine had a lot of money on it on the word of someone in the know.
Quote from: botman on August 28, 2009, 03:55:05 PM
Just heard from an Uncle who is connected - Grimley got the Armagh gig.
Quote from: Apple Crumble on August 28, 2009, 10:03:35 PM
Quote from: Minder on August 28, 2009, 09:56:26 PM
Quote from: Seany on August 28, 2009, 07:50:12 PM
...and wait for this one.
Oisin might also be involved.
What are the odds on that happening?
I heard from my uncle who is also connected (is it the same uncle??).
Jm McConville will be his #2
So much for all the connected Uncles. The smell of bullsh*t and appleblossom fill the orchard air !
I know for sure and certain that neither Jim nor Oisin were ever being lined up!
How's your uncle today?
My uncle spread this rumor in order to lengthen the price on Grimley going to Monaghan then piled in heavy and cleaned out a number of bookies in South Armagh. Cute hoor he is.
Lot of money now on Houlie with Francie as his number two (Francie will be in a media facing role)
Anyway, Armagh are that bad that none of their so called "high profile" managers want to take up the vacant management position? ???
Joe Kernan, Paul Grimley, and McAlinden all linked with other counties while McGeeney seems to have no notion of leaving Kildare.
Why do rats desert a ship? Surely this indicates a barron spell ahead for Armagh and it could be some time before they add to their one All-Ireland
QuoteLot of money now on Houlie with Francie as his number two (Francie will be in a media facing role)
You can laugh but at this stage I'd be surprised at nothing.
Quote from: botman on September 03, 2009, 11:44:30 AM
My uncle spread this rumor in order to lengthen the price on Grimley going to Monaghan then piled in heavy and cleaned out a number of bookies in South Armagh. Cute hoor he is.
Lot of money now on Houlie with Francie as his number two (Francie will be in a media facing role)
Anyway, Armagh are that bad that none of their so called "high profile" managers want to take up the vacant management position? ???
Joe Kernan, Paul Grimley, and McAlinden all linked with other counties while McGeeney seems to have no notion of leaving Kildare.
Why do rats desert a ship? Surely this indicates a barron spell ahead for Armagh and it could be some time before they add to their one All-Ireland
So Bookies in south armagh were giving odds on where Grimley would go ? even as a no.2 ?
I could see through it as a potential manager but cant see any bookie paying on a no 2 position.
Heard rumours of Grimley getting approached again yesterday. - Mightn't be dead just yet!
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 03, 2009, 12:42:54 PM
Heard rumours of Grimley getting approached again yesterday. - Mightn't be dead just yet!
:D What source is this from, an aunt perhaps?
Quote from: Schkite on September 03, 2009, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 03, 2009, 12:42:54 PM
Heard rumours of Grimley getting approached again yesterday. - Mightn't be dead just yet!
:D What source is this from, an aunt perhaps?
It could be Botmans uncle, Barney Curley !
Banty! :P
Quote from: Bensars on September 03, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: botman on September 03, 2009, 11:44:30 AM
My uncle spread this rumor in order to lengthen the price on Grimley going to Monaghan then piled in heavy and cleaned out a number of bookies in South Armagh. Cute hoor he is.
Lot of money now on Houlie with Francie as his number two (Francie will be in a media facing role)
Anyway, Armagh are that bad that none of their so called "high profile" managers want to take up the vacant management position? ???
Joe Kernan, Paul Grimley, and McAlinden all linked with other counties while McGeeney seems to have no notion of leaving Kildare.
Why do rats desert a ship? Surely this indicates a barron spell ahead for Armagh and it could be some time before they add to their one All-Ireland
So Bookies in south armagh were giving odds on where Grimley would go ? even as a no.2 ?
I could see through it as a potential manager but cant see any bookie paying on a no 2 position.
Them boyos would bet on two flys going up a wall. :P
Just heard that John Maughan has been approached
Quote from: stephenite on September 03, 2009, 01:50:50 PM
Just heard that John Maughan has been approached
i heard he declined the mans sexual advances
Quote from: rootthemout on September 03, 2009, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: stephenite on September 03, 2009, 01:50:50 PM
Just heard that John Maughan has been approached
i heard he declined the mans sexual advances
Good choice - more than competent in managing teams who implode at All Ireland level.
I think we're in the shit now lads.
McAlinden? can't see it.
Smith and McQuillan? hope not
what's the chances of joe mor riding in on his horse?
Quote from: The GAA on September 03, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
I think we're in the shit now lads.
McAlinden? can't see it.
Smith and McQuillan? hope not
what's the chances of joe mor riding in on his horse?
I'd say Hugh is sitting down having tea with right about now
Quote from: The GAA on September 03, 2009, 06:10:45 PM
I think we're in the shit now lads.
McAlinden? can't see it.
Smith and McQuillan? hope not
what's the chances of joe mor riding in on his horse?
Ive the same feeling.
Thank God for the minors, at least there's something positive there to latch on to at the moment. At least with the minors it's still all about the football, i.e. not politics, backbiting, egos or money.
Quote from: Bensars on September 03, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: botman on September 03, 2009, 11:44:30 AM
My uncle spread this rumor in order to lengthen the price on Grimley going to Monaghan then piled in heavy and cleaned out a number of bookies in South Armagh. Cute hoor he is.
Lot of money now on Houlie with Francie as his number two (Francie will be in a media facing role)
Anyway, Armagh are that bad that none of their so called "high profile" managers want to take up the vacant management position? ???
Joe Kernan, Paul Grimley, and McAlinden all linked with other counties while McGeeney seems to have no notion of leaving Kildare.
Why do rats desert a ship? Surely this indicates a barron spell ahead for Armagh and it could be some time before they add to their one All-Ireland
So Bookies in south armagh were giving odds on where Grimley would go ? even as a no.2 ?I could see through it as a potential manager but cant see any bookie paying on a no 2 position.
[/quotewould have to say that this a load of DUNG, what bookie in their right mind would be betting on monaghans #2 ::)
FFS he was taking the piss
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 06:38:38 PM
Thank God for the minors, at least there's something positive there to latch on to at the moment. At least with the minors it's still all about the football, i.e. not politics, backbiting, egos or money.
Ye's are putting a lot of faith in these minors lads!
Erm, not sure what your point is - any team from your county getting to an AI final is a great achievement in any year and a positive in my book.
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 03, 2009, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 06:38:38 PM
Thank God for the minors, at least there's something positive there to latch on to at the moment. At least with the minors it's still all about the football, i.e. not politics, backbiting, egos or money.
Ye's are putting a lot of faith in these minors lads!
Why would we not have, they are one of the two best teams in the country shure. :P
A former Armagh All Star has been approached to see if he has any interest in the position, watch this space.
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:19:41 PM
A former Armagh All Star has been approached to see if he has any interest in the position, watch this space.
Spill the beans
QuoteA former Armagh All Star has been approached to see if he has any interest in the position, watch this space.
Well Paddy Mo' would also have problems with offspring on the panel, so it must be someone else.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 03, 2009, 07:31:45 PM
QuoteA former Armagh All Star has been approached to see if he has any interest in the position, watch this space.
Well Paddy Mo' would also have problems with offspring on the panel, so it must be someone else.
He was my first thought but thinking about it now I'd say stew is stirring :D
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 03, 2009, 07:37:11 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 03, 2009, 07:31:45 PM
QuoteA former Armagh All Star has been approached to see if he has any interest in the position, watch this space.
Well Paddy Mo' would also have problems with offspring on the panel, so it must be someone else.
He was my first thought but thinking about it now I'd say stew is stirring :D
I am not stirring ya ballix.
:D alright alright
We'll see
Quote from: stew on September 03, 2009, 07:19:41 PM
A former Armagh All Star has been approached to see if he has any interest in the position, watch this space.
Are you suggesting McAlinden?
What's happening in Armagh they seem to be in disarray at the moment.
Mcalinden wasnt an allstar
Houlie......................
Really don't know who will be lined up now, dunno about the CB but I had no Plan B! Interesting to see who's on the list of nominees when it's made public.
Quote from: omagh_gael on September 03, 2009, 06:54:00 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 06:38:38 PM
Thank God for the minors, at least there's something positive there to latch on to at the moment. At least with the minors it's still all about the football, i.e. not politics, backbiting, egos or money.
Ye's are putting a lot of faith in these minors lads!
I would also add the recent success at u-21 level including this year's team who were every bit as good as anything in the country when you look how Down, who were lucky to beat us in the Ulster Final, got on in the AI series.
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
stew you must have some signal from usa to get that info
Smyth now in frame for Armagh job
Former Armagh midfielder Neil Smyth is among the nominees to succeed Peter McDonnell as Orchard county boss.
School Principal Smyth along with former county players Justin McNulty and Micheal McConville are among those currently in the frame for the post.
There is no guarantee the sub-committee set up with the task of finding a new manager will look outside the Orchard County.
But if they do then former Donegal boss Brian McIver could well figure in their plans.
Once of the most respected coaches in the sport, he was a prime mover in Ballinderry's 2002 All Ireland club success.
More recently he was linked with the vacant managerial post in Down
One of the great pluses with McIvor is that he would come to Armagh with no baggage.
Rather he would come with considerable knowledge of club football having previously managed south Armagh club Dromintee.
The special sub-committee set up under the chairmanship of the Ulster Council's Dr Eugene Young and comprising county chairman Kevin Brady, secretary Patrick Og Nugent, former county captain Paul McGrane and clubs' representative Gerry Davidson, met last night to sift through the nominations and lay the groundwork for the interview process.
It is now expected that the interviews will be conducted next week and Chairman Brady is confident that the identity of McDonnell's successor will be known before the end of the month.
The Armagh county board is currently fielding some criticism following the decision of Paul Grimley to join Seamus McEnaney's management team in Monaghan but Brady insists that the proper selections procedures were being adhered to "with all nominees being treated equally".
And the chairman is confident that the selection committee will come up with a suitable candidate who can guide Armagh to more success following their capture of seven Ulster titles in the last ten years as well as All Ireland and National League titles.
"We are engaged in the proper process to find a new manager and we have to be seen to be fair to everyone who has been nominated or interested in the post.
"While we know Armagh's thousands of fans are anxious to discover who the new boss is, it is important that things are done right," said Chairman Brady.
By John Campbell
Belfast Telegraph
Friday, 4 September 2009
Maybe Tally and McIvor will go for it now?
So in the mixing pot now we have ... possibly ...
Neil Smyth
Justin McNulty
Micheal McConville
Brian McIvor (?)
Paddy Moriarty
Joe Kernan (?)
You know I find it hilarious how some people get into the top positions within our county setup! Without getting personal about it, just two questions - what have these men done as Gael's prior to their sitting on the county board to merit such responsibility? What exactly are their previous Gaelic dedications on their CV? Genuine questions - not taking the p**s!
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
Makes Grimley's decision even more baffling.
In all seriousness I think you should give some credit to the Armagh CB. They have a process to go through and are not going to be railroaded by the populist or easy decision. It will be better in the long run if they do things correctly.
Ok maybe everyone wants to see Grimley in the seat but sure if he has a lot of baggage or issues hanging around it would blow up shortly into his tenure.
Armagh probably have plenty of qualified people to take the county team. It's not terribly difficult. You need to have a knowledge of football, and be a good motivator. Simple.
Recently a study found that Managers in the premiership don't have very difficult jobs and that those who were successful tended to have lots of money and bought well in the transfer windows. The same principle applies here. You pick the best players (and lets face it they stand out a mile) and then you motivate them. If they are good enough they will win an AI. If not they won't.
Micko is a perfect example - He just picked the best guys available and motivated them, Wicklow had a great run. Do you think he had some magic tactic ?? No chance.
People get far to hung up on the mystery and hurahh surrounding management appointments.
You gonna manage armagh then botman????
QuoteSmyth among Armagh nominees
04 September 2009
Former players Neil Smyth, Justin McNulty and Michael McConville have been nominated to succeed Peter McDonnell as Armagh football manager.
Paul Grimley's name was also put forward by the clubs, but he is out of the running after becoming Seamus McEnaney's number two in Monaghan. Of the other three, 2002 All-Ireland winner McNulty is the only one to have publicly expressed an interest in the position.
Former Donegal manager Brian McIver, who once managed Dromintee, has also been linked with the post, but recently ruled out a return to inter-county management.
The five-man selection committee set up under the chairmanship of the Ulster Council's Dr Eugene Young and comprising county chairman Kevin Brady, secretary Patrick Og Nugent, former county captain Paul McGrane and clubs' representative Gerry Davidson, met last night to sift through the nominations and lay the groundwork for the interview process.
It is now expected that the interviews will be conducted next week and chairman Brady is confident that the identity of McDonnell's successor will be known before the end of the month.
"We are engaged in the proper process to find a new manager and we have to be seen to be fair to everyone who has been nominated or interested in the post," he told the Belfast Telegraph.
"While we know Armagh's thousands of fans are anxious to discover who the new boss is, it is important that things are done right."
http://hoganstand.com/Armagh/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=117316 (http://hoganstand.com/Armagh/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=117316)
My vote would go to McConville.
Quote from: botman on September 04, 2009, 01:32:45 PM
In all seriousness I think you should give some credit to the Armagh CB. They have a process to go through and are not going to be railroaded by the populist or easy decision. It will be better in the long run if they do things correctly.
Ok maybe everyone wants to see Grimley in the seat but sure if he has a lot of baggage or issues hanging around it would blow up shortly into his tenure.
Armagh probably have plenty of qualified people to take the county team. It's not terribly difficult. You need to have a knowledge of football, and be a good motivator. Simple.
Recently a study found that Managers in the premiership don't have very difficult jobs and that those who were successful tended to have lots of money and bought well in the transfer windows. The same principle applies here. You pick the best players (and lets face it they stand out a mile) and then you motivate them. If they are good enough they will win an AI. If not they won't.
Micko is a perfect example - He just picked the best guys available and motivated them, Wicklow had a great run. Do you think he had some magic tactic ?? No chance.
People get far to hung up on the mystery and hurahh surrounding management appointments.
No they don't; just think back to the bollix that the last appointment made of things!
Surely people cannot be serious when they mention Neil Smyth and Armagh Co Manager in the same sentence.
QuoteJody Gormley to take them back to division 4
There are clubs in Armagh, at least one anyway, that would be able to play in Div 4.
What is Smyth's management experience?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 04, 2009, 06:00:14 PM
What is Smyth's management experience?
I think he was manager of Mullaghbawn for a year or two.
since PG's decision to go with Monghan, i dont think we have anyone in the the county that could take it up and be successful, the names mentioned, Smyth, Mc Conville, Nc Nulty etc dont have the experience at this level, we should be looking for someone outside of the county e.g Mc Iver, Mc Eniff, guys of this Calibre who have been in intercounty setups and know the ropes. honestly dont think there is anyone in the county capable,
sorry i will rephrase that, there are a couple of men, but they are not willing to throw there hat into the ring, which is fair enough
yeah Neill managed Mullaghbawn for a few years......won the division one league in 2005 i think it was...
not one of them men have the credentials to take over a county squad, mc conville would have the best c.v and even he wouldn't be up to it, Mc Ivor and Tally are about the only 2 that would have the proper make up to take it over, at least they might be fit under Tally.
If a significant number of clubs proposed Grimley, and he is not available, the further nominations should be sought.
Even Donal Murtagh may wish to reassess his availability!!
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2009, 11:08:11 PM
If a significant number of clubs proposed Grimley, and he is not available, the further nominations should be sought.
Even Donal Murtagh may wish to reassess his availability!!
Donal has indicated he will step down from Cross. I do not think that the other candidates are as good as him and the CB should request him to apply and then it is up to him to decide if hew wishes to or not.
Outside the county, maybe the likes of McIvor or Charlie Mulgrew. But what we don't need is a 'has been' or journey man coming in. A young up and coming manager like Justin McNulty mighn't be the worst case scenario. He's had some success already at club level and could bring a freshness and enthusiasm to the whole thing. The whole Paul Grimley saga has left a sour taste - too much focus on politics, egos, backbiting and money. Somewhere along the line in Armagh we've forgot what's really important - i.e. the football. Get someone in with no baggage and agenda, who wants to do the job, for the good of the county and not themselves, and can get the best out of the best players we have.
What about the current Ogs manager Brendan Hughes? I'll admit I don't know an awful lot about him but he's been involved with the county minors before and has done what no other manager has achieved in Armagh for 14 years in beating Cross. Maybe some Ogs supporters could vouch for or against his credentials.
As someone said earlier all the great managers were untried at some point in their careers so the opportunity for a fresh start with an unheralded manager should not be ruled out.
I think Justy might be a decent choice, however it'll be important that he gets the right people around him!
Eamon McEneaney has made himself available now!!!!
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 08, 2009, 08:05:27 AM
I think Justy might be a decent choice, however it'll be important that he gets the right people around him!
I think he would be an excellent choice also. A lad that couldnt play football put in charge of a county going nowhere fast. A marriage made in heaven.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on September 07, 2009, 05:21:05 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on September 06, 2009, 11:08:11 PM
If a significant number of clubs proposed Grimley, and he is not available, the further nominations should be sought.
Even Donal Murtagh may wish to reassess his availability!!
Donal has indicated he will step down from Cross. I do not think that the other candidates are as good as him and the CB should request him to apply and then it is up to him to decide if hew wishes to or not.
The problem is that donal is not that highly regarded - particularly bu his own club players...
Quote from: man in black on September 08, 2009, 11:28:45 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 08, 2009, 08:05:27 AM
I think Justy might be a decent choice, however it'll be important that he gets the right people around him!
I think he would be an excellent choice also. A lad that couldnt play football put in charge of a county going nowhere fast. A marriage made in heaven.
Sounds like Micky Harte and Tyrone in 2002.
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
one underage all Ireland title in 50 yrs is hardly a sign of new talent coming through. You Armagh lads need to get real. What you're listing might win a provincial title or two but no more.
Look north to Tyrone where there are 8 minor/u 21 all irelands in the last 18 years to deliver 3 sams. A minor win this year would be a step in the right direction but only a step.
A minor title 18 years ago is feck all use in determining your prospects for the future.
Quote from: qz on September 08, 2009, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
one underage all Ireland title in 50 yrs is hardly a sign of new talent coming through. You Armagh lads need to get real. What you're listing might win a provincial title or two but no more.
Look north to Tyrone where there are 8 minor/u 21 all irelands in the last 18 years to deliver 3 sams. A minor win this year would be a step in the right direction but only a step.
Aye and if you know your football history as well as you make out you'd also be keenly aware that Armagh's AI win and other many successes over a decade was based on a lot slimmer pickings from underage success than that list i've given above. We tend to make the most of what underage talent there is available to us.
Quote from: Armamike on September 09, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: qz on September 08, 2009, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
one underage all Ireland title in 50 yrs is hardly a sign of new talent coming through. You Armagh lads need to get real. What you're listing might win a provincial title or two but no more.
Look north to Tyrone where there are 8 minor/u 21 all irelands in the last 18 years to deliver 3 sams. A minor win this year would be a step in the right direction but only a step.
Aye and if you know your football history as well as you make out you'd also be keenly aware that Armagh's AI win and other many successes over a decade was based on a lot slimmer pickings from underage success than that list i've given above. We tend to make the most of what underage talent there is available to us.
Correct
Quote from: Armamike on September 08, 2009, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: man in black on September 08, 2009, 11:28:45 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 08, 2009, 08:05:27 AM
I think Justy might be a decent choice, however it'll be important that he gets the right people around him!
I think he would be an excellent choice also. A lad that couldnt play football put in charge of a county going nowhere fast. A marriage made in heaven.
Sounds like Micky Harte and Tyrone in 2002.
Very badly misinformed. Harte got a team that had just won a National League, and much more importantly the Ulster Championship under Mc Rory and Mc Kenna. They were hardly going no where
Any word on who the 5 are?
5?
My Money is on wee james and Paddy O Rourke team.
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on September 09, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
My Money is on wee james and Paddy O Rourke team.
who was your source ::)
Quote from: Logan on September 09, 2009, 12:45:38 AM
Quote from: Armamike on September 09, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: qz on September 08, 2009, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
one underage all Ireland title in 50 yrs is hardly a sign of new talent coming through. You Armagh lads need to get real. What you're listing might win a provincial title or two but no more.
Look north to Tyrone where there are 8 minor/u 21 all irelands in the last 18 years to deliver 3 sams. A minor win this year would be a step in the right direction but only a step.
Aye and if you know your football history as well as you make out you'd also be keenly aware that Armagh's AI win and other many successes over a decade was based on a lot slimmer pickings from underage success than that list i've given above. We tend to make the most of what underage talent there is available to us.
Correct
Sam Maguire wins is the only measure of success for the top counties these days. armagh have made the most of their slim pickings only once in history .We outside the county await to see if the latest underage teams will be made the most of. The right choice in manager will also be critical. Could anyone suggest any collective reasons why Grimley, Kernan & mcGeeny are all avoiding this opportunity then given the reasons to be positive?
Quote from: qz on September 09, 2009, 01:18:46 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 09, 2009, 12:45:38 AM
Quote from: Armamike on September 09, 2009, 12:05:37 AM
Quote from: qz on September 08, 2009, 11:24:57 PM
Quote from: Armamike on September 03, 2009, 09:34:46 PM
The old chestnut thrown at Armagh supporters a couple of years back was the lack of new talent coming through. Since 2004 Armagh underage teams (minor and under 21) have been very competitive:
2004 Under 21 Ulster and AI winners
2005 Minor Ulster winners
2007 Under 21 Ulster winners (beat by Cork, AI winners by a point in the semis)
2009 Under 21 Ulster finalists; Under 18 Ulster winners and AI finalist
Reasons to be positive.
one underage all Ireland title in 50 yrs is hardly a sign of new talent coming through. You Armagh lads need to get real. What you're listing might win a provincial title or two but no more.
Look north to Tyrone where there are 8 minor/u 21 all irelands in the last 18 years to deliver 3 sams. A minor win this year would be a step in the right direction but only a step.
Aye and if you know your football history as well as you make out you'd also be keenly aware that Armagh's AI win and other many successes over a decade was based on a lot slimmer pickings from underage success than that list i've given above. We tend to make the most of what underage talent there is available to us.
Correct
Sam Maguire wins is the only measure of success for the top counties these days. armagh have made the most of their slim pickings only once in history .We outside the county await to see if the latest underage teams will be made the most of. The right choice in manager will also be critical. Could anyone suggest any collective reasons why Grimley, Kernan & mcGeeny are all avoiding this opportunity then given the reasons to be positive?
EXPENSES
Quote from: qz on September 09, 2009, 01:18:46 PM
Could anyone suggest any collective reasons why Grimley, Kernan & mcGeeny are all avoiding this opportunity then given the reasons to be positive?
With the exception of Big Joe...The other two boys will not touch the Armagh job until certain members of the CB leave...its as simple as that...
Any word on an outcome to this GAA comedy side-show?
Quote from: Rawhide on September 09, 2009, 09:58:57 AM
Quote from: Armamike on September 08, 2009, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: man in black on September 08, 2009, 11:28:45 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 08, 2009, 08:05:27 AM
I think Justy might be a decent choice, however it'll be important that he gets the right people around him!
I think he would be an excellent choice also. A lad that couldnt play football put in charge of a county going nowhere fast. A marriage made in heaven.
Sounds like Micky Harte and Tyrone in 2002.
Very badly misinformed. Harte got a team that had just won a National League, and much more importantly the Ulster Championship under Mc Rory and Mc Kenna. They were hardly going no where
Anyone who watched Tyrone's comical performance against Sligo in 2002 could see that that team were going nowhere fast under Art and Eugene. The powers that be in Tyrone knew that, that's why they shafted the two lads and brought in Harte. It was brought into sharp focus round about late September that year.
Inside info that Grimbo is back in the frame for the armagh job!
Quote from: The Pundit on September 09, 2009, 11:11:39 PM
Inside info that Grimbo is back in the frame for the armagh job!
Watching UTV Pundit were ya? ;)
wouldnt be watching that unionist propaganda. cant reveal my source but its fairly reliable.
Was watching the UTV news there and they show the front page of tomorrow's newspapers and the Irish News has, 'Grimley back in the running for Armagh job'.
Interesting!
here is hoping my source is credible then!
this couldnt be true. it is getting to be a circus. was he ever offically announced as no2 in monaghan?
Houlie is the new man with Oisin his number two. he met with the CB a few days ago and has confirmed that hehas landed the job. Him and oisin used to own a few greyhounds together and they get on well, Grimley is gone fellas, get over it.
I wish houlie and Oisin all the best and paddy og will be announcing the decision in the morning apparently.
Quote from: stew on September 10, 2009, 07:57:42 PM
Houlie is the new man with Oisin his number two. he met with the CB a few days ago and has confirmed that hehas landed the job. Him and oisin used to own a few greyhounds together and they get on well, Grimley is gone fellas, get over it.
I wish houlie and Oisin all the best and paddy og will be announcing the decision in the morning apparently.
How does this stack with the claims the selection committee stood down? Presumably that was all paper talk. I have already lost all faith in this appointment, as said on another thread, the Mc Donnell departure should have been better cleared up and our minor final cleared up before the process even started
Quote from: stew on September 10, 2009, 07:57:42 PM
Houlie is the new man with Oisin his number two. he met with the CB a few days ago and has confirmed that hehas landed the job. Him and oisin used to own a few greyhounds together and they get on well, Grimley is gone fellas, get over it.
I wish houlie and Oisin all the best and paddy og will be announcing the decision in the morning apparently.
fairy story
players issued a statement night criticising county board and for the avoidance of doubt Grimley confirmed last nite he was staying with Monaghan
Quote from: naka on September 11, 2009, 09:04:03 AM
players issued a statement night criticising county board and for the avoidance of doubt Grimley confirmed last nite he was staying with Monaghan
This was in a paper somewhere was it?
Players issued a statement last night. That's a bit presumptious of them I must say because at thsi moment, there does not exist a panel.
They say the pocess was flawed. Not as flawed as their own processes which saw a pathetic year of football out of them. This would never have happned in 2002 when the boys were winning. This 'panel' would do better than keep their mouths shut and their heads down.
Quote from: Seany on September 11, 2009, 10:20:15 AM
Players issued a statement last night. That's a bit presumptious of them I must say because at thsi moment, there does not exist a panel.
They say the pocess was flawed. Not as flawed as their own processes which saw a pathetic year of football out of them. This would never have happned in 2002 when the boys were winning. This 'panel' would do better than keep their mouths shut and their heads down.
That's some budle of shite seany.
I was delighted to the see the players statement this morning, fair play to them. they've said what everyone has been thinking. Paul McGrane's disbanding of the selection committee because they could get enough support from the county board is enough for me.
Everyone keeping their heads down will really sort the thing down. where did that get the county two years ago?
what if the next best candidate for the job, sean boylan or whoever comes for an interview and kevin brady doesn't like his socks or his tie? black ball for him too?
It's time we all woke up here and take a bit of responsibility ourselves. what have any of us done through our clubs to call a stop to this shambolic litany of blunders by the county board?
John Campbell writing in the Indo
THE Management Committee of the Armagh county board met last night in a bid to help smooth the path leading to the appointment of a new football team manager in succession to Peter McDonnell.
Appointment of new boss seems as far away as ever amid denials from a county board spokesman that the five-man selection committee tasked with choosing the successor to McDonnell has disbanded, it has now become clear that the selection process has become much more convoluted.
And with followers of Armagh — the team, a dominant force in the Ulster championship for the past decade, boasts one of the biggest and most vociferous fan bases in the entire country — growing increasingly impatient as the team management matter becomes a more controversial issue, the county board is coming under increasing pressure to speed up the appointment process.
The fact that Paul Grimley, initially thought to be a frontline candidate for the Armagh post and even at this stage still enjoying a huge volume of support as a potential successor to McDonnell, has already thrown in his lot with Monaghan and Joe Kernan has been snapped up as the new boss of Galway has added to the feeling of frustration within the Orchard County.
It is understood that at least two senior players from the Armagh side have met with Grimley of late to acquaint him with the squad's feelings but nothing as yet has emanated from this get-together.
The Ulster Council's Eugene Young, who has been chairman of the selection committee, was non-committal earlier in the week when queried about the appointment of a new boss — understandably, too, at that juncture given that the interview process had apparently already been initiated — but now there seems to be a growing demand for a further approach to be made to Grimley to perhaps re-consider his decision to link up with Monaghan.
Grimley had initially indicated his enthusiasm for the Armagh post but had apparently been reluctant to undergo a detailed interview process, citing the personal disenchantment he experienced when he was in line to succeed Joe Kernan two years ago.
For now, Grimley will be engaged on important Monaghan club business tomorrow night when the Clontibret side he coaches will meet Magheracloone in the county championship semi-final at Inniskeen (7.00pm) having overcome Castleblayney in last Saturday's replay.
It is believed that the names of Justin McNulty and Neil Smyth remain in the frame for the Armagh post.
Former Donegal manager Brian McIver has said he will not be the next Armagh boss — but hasn't ruled out being involved in the new Down managerial set-up.
"I wouldn't be managing another inter county team, certainly not next year," said McIver, who is being linked with involvement in a new Down management team alongside James McCartan and Paddy Tally.
Grimley is not coming back, he is finished as a managerial candidate for Armagh for now and he is staying with Monaghan.
Houlie & Oisin are ready, willing and able to fill the void but are being made to wait because of the fallout over 'grimleygate'
Paddy Og and the board need to issue a statement as to their intentions, come clean and appoint the two former all stars, end of.
Quote from: stew on September 11, 2009, 08:10:26 PM
Grimley is not coming back, he is finished as a managerial candidate for Armagh for now and he is staying with Monaghan.
Houlie & Oisin are ready, willing and able to fill the void but are being made to wait because of the fallout over 'grimleygate'
Paddy Og and the board need to issue a statement as to their intentions, come clean and appoint the two former all stars, end of.
Would it not be best to delay any appoint in order to sort out the issues over the McDonell departure and Grimleygate?
Quote from: David McKeown on September 11, 2009, 08:41:26 PM
Quote from: stew on September 11, 2009, 08:10:26 PM
Grimley is not coming back, he is finished as a managerial candidate for Armagh for now and he is staying with Monaghan.
Houlie & Oisin are ready, willing and able to fill the void but are being made to wait because of the fallout over 'grimleygate'
Paddy Og and the board need to issue a statement as to their intentions, come clean and appoint the two former all stars, end of.
Would it not be best to delay any appoint in order to sort out the issues over the McDonell departure and Grimleygate?
Since when did the CB do what was best for the county?????
All you ones complaining about the Armagh CB would want to look long and hard at the events.
I think they've done the best job they could to now - Grimley threw the toys out of the pram when they didn't jump on his call - and that's the reason Armagh are in the mess they're in.
The CB had gone above and beyond the call in approaching and lining up Grimley and others in his backroom team and support staff and had done an excellent job until Grimley started making unreasonable demands.
Players statements don't help at all.
Quote from: Logan on September 11, 2009, 09:08:52 PM
All you ones complaining about the Armagh CB would want to look long and hard at the events.
I think they've done the best job they could to now - Grimley threw the toys out of the pram when they didn't jump on his call - and that's the reason Armagh are in the mess they're in.
The CB had gone above and beyond the call in approaching and lining up Grimley and others in his backroom team and support staff and had done an excellent job until Grimley started making unreasonable demands.
Players statements don't help at all.
There is enough blame to go around, fcuk placing the blame, I would rather they fixed the problem.
You are spot on about the players statements, they should focus on the football and stay out of the politics, no good can come from their meddling.
When Grimley annouced he was jumping ship 'they' should have
(a) Pulled out all the stops and tried to get him back. WHile he may have decided it wasn't confirmed for almost 24 hours - plenty of time to convince him otherwise if they really wanted him.
(b) Done whatever it took to get McIvor. I don't think he would have been the Number 1 choice - but he had the discipline, leadership to control and stabilise the ship with a good football brain. All that is needed is a new strong leader to stop the ship going under completely.
(c) If he didn't want the main job (which is common knowledge) they should have put him alongside Justin McNulty and used the first 2 years or so to prepare McNulty for the role.
Now they've been left in a mess where they'll be looking at third best.
Worse still every idiot outside the county and province will be looking for the job now - expect to see goons like Tommy Lyons, Eamonn Barry and Eamonn McEneaney expressing an interest in it next.
couldnt be bothered reading over everything on here so may repeat some other people's views. This whole thing is a joke. Firstly have we another Cork situation on our hands?? The players (and who says at this moment in time that they are Armagh's players) cant dictate who the manager is. They are there to play, not to pick who they play for. And a lot of these players may not even be on future Armagh panels. Many of them shouldn't have been on the panel in 2009.
The County Board do have a lot to answer for. If they set up a committee to get a manager, then the committee should have been left to their own devices until a single name came forward to be confirmed. If the CB didnt trust the committee's judgement then the sub-committee should never have been set up in the first place. However some sympathy must go to the CB because they are currently seeking a man to do the job that Peter McDonnell did not - and that is to revamp the squad, get rid of the hangers-on and lay the foundations of a new, young team for the future. A job that I and many others had fully expected him to do. He didnt deliver. So the CB are probably worse off than before PMcD was appointed.
I suppose when candidates were dropping out of the race and Grimley went to Monaghan and we had the likes of J McNulty and Neil Smyth bandied about the CB may have paniced a bit and as McGrane suggests the CB made the sub-committee's position untenable.
I do also believe Paul McGrane has a lot to answer for as well. It seems to me when he couldnt get his own way (Grimley - who sought written assurances from the CB and issued ultimatums as Monaghan had given him a deadline) he started this disbanding crap and pointing fingers. The fact is if the sub-committee were to act properly Grimley could not be given written assurances as this would create the "flawed process" that McGrane & co have cited as there would be no process required. Now I dont know if Grimley truly wanted the job or not but he knew, as did the whole country, that if available he would have got the job and he only had to sit it out and wait. It is my opinion that he has burned his bridges, sided up to Monaghan. Hes made his bed so he can lie in it.
This however does not produce any answers as to who should or should not be the next manager. The list of who it shouldnt be would far outweigh the list that could do the job, that are still availble. And this tit for tat vitriol in local and national newspapers is hardly going to attract the calibre of bosses to the job that we need. Who in their right mind would want to deal with this rabble I do not know.
And the worst of it is, the biggest culprit of all the greed that spread around our county set-up is on his merry way to more backhanders and brown envelopes.
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
There is no professional GAA county board in Ireland. County boards have a max of one full time posistion. The rest are volunteers.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 12, 2009, 02:07:40 PM
There is no professional GAA county board in Ireland. County boards have a max of one full time posistion. The rest are volunteers.
Agree with this. Been away for the last week and only catching up on events. It was depressing before I went. Sinking to new lows now.
I don't know much about the County Board. What is it they're doing that is causing the outcry. And if they all resigned today, are there better people to replace them?
Not sure who will get the managers job, but based on the fact there is no obvious candidates within the county, then I would like it to go to someone from within the County who understands the football structures and has proven ability at some level and is hungry for the role.
Please God, not Houlie and Oisin. Donal Murtagh, Justin, Aiden O'Rourke etc. Names that have actually managed at a high enough level.
Whoever gets it if they don't get full support from CB, clubs, players and supporters, then we may keep this thread open for this time next year
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
Good post - though I don't think the players going public was a help - they should have kept their views known to the CB and committee and out of the papers to be honest - at least for the time being.
The CB is NOT the problem
Can someone tell me what they did wrong?
They lined up the right man, organized the proper process to interview ervyone and had his finances sorted and he made demands in time frames that they couldn't meet. It's not their fault he panicked!
And from the back of the Irish News the players can see the CB and others had lined up good men to support Grimley.
Players would want to let the CB do their job and stay out of the papers before they start shouting off.
Plunkett Donaghy to cross the Blackwater to manage the old rivals? Any truth in this at all?
QuoteAnd the worst of it is, the biggest culprit of all the greed that spread around our county set-up is on his merry way to more backhanders and brown envelopes.
Surely you aren't inferring that ex-management and the county board lined their pockets at the expense of the ordinary supporter? :o
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on September 12, 2009, 03:35:42 PM
Plunkett Donaghy to cross the Blackwater to manage the old rivals? Any truth in this at all?
Was talking 2 his brother 2day said it was the biggest load of baloney he`d ever heard.
Quote from: INDIANA on September 12, 2009, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
There is no professional GAA county board in Ireland. County boards have a max of one full time posistion. The rest are volunteers.
I am talking about a professional outlook, professional standards and professional returns. not full time paid officers. That is what we expect from players, coaches and management.
but thanks for fulfilling your roll as resident know it all
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
Good post - though I don't think the players going public was a help - they should have kept their views known to the CB and committee and out of the papers to be honest - at least for the time being.
Players had already gone through that process and got nowhere.
County board deliberately defaulted on the agreement they had in place with Grimley, knowing he'd throw the head up
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
Good post - though I don't think the players going public was a help - they should have kept their views known to the CB and committee and out of the papers to be honest - at least for the time being.
Players had already gone through that process and got nowhere.
County board deliberately defaulted on the agreement they had in place with Grimley, knowing he'd throw the head up
Players should have kept out of the media.
The County board never defauted (this year) on any agreement.
wonder how armagh will get on next year without Francie at full back !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on September 12, 2009, 05:11:06 PM
wonder how armagh will get on next year without Francie at full back !
he wasnt their this year and one of the best men we had playing was brenden donaghy at full back so i'd say we can cope without francie.
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
Good post - though I don't think the players going public was a help - they should have kept their views known to the CB and committee and out of the papers to be honest - at least for the time being.
Players had already gone through that process and got nowhere.
County board deliberately defaulted on the agreement they had in place with Grimley, knowing he'd throw the head up
Players should have kept out of the media.
The County board never defauted (this year) on any agreement.
Yes they did...
Quote from: BroJolly on September 12, 2009, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on September 12, 2009, 02:07:40 PM
There is no professional GAA county board in Ireland. County boards have a max of one full time posistion. The rest are volunteers.
Agree with this. Been away for the last week and only catching up on events. It was depressing before I went. Sinking to new lows now.
I don't know much about the County Board. What is it they're doing that is causing the outcry. And if they all resigned today, are there better people to replace them?
Not sure who will get the managers job, but based on the fact there is no obvious candidates within the county, then I would like it to go to someone from within the County who understands the football structures and has proven ability at some level and is hungry for the role.
Please God, not Houlie and Oisin. Donal Murtagh, Justin, Aiden O'Rourke etc. Names that have actually managed at a high enough level.
Whoever gets it if they don't get full support from CB, clubs, players and supporters, then we may keep this thread open for this time next year
To be fair Donal Murtagh's record isn't dissiminilar to Big Joe's before he took the job. I'd be happy enough at this stage if he got the post.
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 06:18:26 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 05:04:35 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 04:45:30 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 12, 2009, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 12, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
I don't see why you are criticising the players in this instance. They are doing what sensible poster on here have been doing for weeks – calling stop, asking what the feck is going on and how can Armagh get the best man for the job in place – be he grimley or someone else. Only difference between us and them is they carry enough clout to be listened to. The argument about who's players now, yesterday or tomorrow is pedantic and a smokescreen. It's a badly thought through excuse by someone clutching at straws to find a reason why the players shouldn't have a voice.
As for revamping the squad getting rid of hangers on, that is a ridiculous statement. You cannot appoint a manager and then say "by the way, the first thing you have to do is...." You appoint a manager who is capable of doing the job. He has to be trusted to make judgement calls from the outset or he shouldn't be there. Certainly, how can we know who are the best players and support staff for the county from this distance? Those are decisions for people at the coal face.
Interesting that you feel qualified to criticise Paul McGrane because of your own idle speculation that he disbanded the selection committee because he couldn't get his own way, yet defend the county board because you "suppose" they "paniced". Understandable logic there all right. McGrane has no authority to disband the subcommittee – he is only a constituent member and this must be done by the chair with the support of the majority. But you work away with your assumptions and your supposes.
Who indeed would want to deal with this rabble.
The sooner the county executive are removed and the county can put professional people in place to run football in Armagh the better.
Good post - though I don't think the players going public was a help - they should have kept their views known to the CB and committee and out of the papers to be honest - at least for the time being.
Players had already gone through that process and got nowhere.
County board deliberately defaulted on the agreement they had in place with Grimley, knowing he'd throw the head up
Players should have kept out of the media.
The County board never defauted (this year) on any agreement.
Yes they did...
No ... not the CB
Get your facts right before you go making accusations
Yip, they did.
got my facts perfectly thanks...
Then it'll be no trouble for you to explain and back them up if they're supposed to be true ...
Armagh board set to engage with players
Gaelic Games
By Kenny Archer
12/09/09
ARMAGH County Board officials will meet with player representatives on Monday evening prior to a full county committee meeting concerning the vacant senior football manager's job.
This year's panel met in the Armagh City Hotel on Thursday night and issued a hard-hitting statement that was exclusively revealed by The Irish News yesterday. In it, the players spoke of "growing disillusionment" with the search for a successor to Peter McDonnell and criticised the "flawed process" and "personal agendas" that they felt had "overlooked" the desire of most clubs and players to appoint "a primary candidate to whom the players remain supportive."
Although he was not named, that was clearly a reference to Paul Grimley. However, the Pearse Og clubman, who had been assistant to McDonnell's predecessor Joe Kernan and then to Kieran McGeeney in Kildare for the past two seasons, will not be the new Armagh boss.
As revealed by The Irish News on Thursday, Armagh officials did have hopes of persuading Grimley to change his mind – and some senior players met him – but those hopes were dashed by Grimley, who said he will honour his agreement to become assistant manager of Monaghan.
Apart from the players' gathering, a meeting of the county management committee was also held on Thursday night at which the chairman of the managerial selection committee, Dr Eugene Young, was present. At this, it was agreed to convene a meeting of the county committee on Monday, a development that satisfies at least one of the players' demands.
Armagh County Board chairman Kevin Brady declined to comment on the situation last night, saying only that he would wait until after the clubs were consulted. Nor was any official response forthcoming to the players' statement. However, it is understood that the board would have preferred it if the players had held off on issuing a statement until after meeting with county board officers.
One well-placed source did say: "This has got a wee bit out of hand with mis-information, rumour, and personal agendas coming into it."
Yet the source denied that there was an agenda against Paul Grimley, arguing: "I would say that the opposite is probably the case."
Grimley was the clear choice of Armagh's clubs, but was reluctant to be interviewed, apparently aggrieved at how he missed out on the job when McDonnell was appointed.
The source added: "There was a process that he didn't want to go through....but we couldn't just brush aside the other candidates, some of whom are solid and genuine Armagh people."
Former Armagh captain Paul McGrane has stood down from the selection committee, but a way forward has been outlined to possibly continue the process under the chairmanship of Derry native Young.
TYRONE LEGEND SWITCHING ALLEGIANCE?
TYRONE legend Plunkett Donaghy has emerged as a shock contender for the Armagh senior manager's job, writes Kenny Archer.
The Irish News understands that the Red Hand icon was sounded out at a meeting held in Dungannon on Thursday night about the possibility of his name going forward. Donaghy declined to comment when contacted yesterday.
However, The Irish News believes that the Moy man did not discount 'crossing the Blackwater'.
A former inter-county manager from another county has also expressed his interest in the Armagh post, it has emerged. If either man were to be appointed by Armagh, he would be the first outside manager since Derry-born Gerry O'Neill – brother of well-known soccer boss Martin. Gerry O'Neill had two spells in charge of Armagh, 1970-72 and 1975-81, leading them to the
All-Ireland final in 1977, having ended a 24-year drought without an Ulster title earlier that season.
Moy Tir na nOg clubman Donaghy won three Ulster SFC titles with Tyrone, in 1984, 1986, and 1989, and won an Allstar in 1986 at midfield after helping the Red Hands to that season's
All-Ireland final.
In yet another twist, former Ireland rugby fitness coach Mickey McGurn, from Fermanagh, has apparently been approached about training the Armagh senior footballers.
_______________________________________________________
So Armagh were/are keen on Grimley and went to him above everyone else have lined up McGurn to train the team ... I'd say a good young manager like McNulty with McGurn and McConville and one older head might be a right good mix for th elonger term now - seeing as pretty much all other options are gone.
To get McGurn is a good coup though - not many GAA teams could get an international coach as their fitness coach!
You've fairly changed your tune on McGurn
Still think it's a great coup for Armagh considering everything that's gone on, if they have good football people there too - if they can get everything else in order ...
Now maybe you'll be as quick and answer my other question and back up your unproven allegations about the CB's dishonesty?
How would you expect me to prove a verbal agreement?
How can the county board go and approach a trainer when they havent got a manager
surely the manager would appoint his coaching team etc
Sounds like a load of Bullsh*t to me
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 13, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
How would you expect me to prove a verbal agreement?
Provide some source or evidence there was ever an agreement between Grimley and the CB - There never was.
There may have been between Grimley and others - but not the CB - which is your allegation ... and as yet unproven.
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on September 13, 2009, 05:49:12 PM
How can the county board go and approach a trainer when they havent got a manager
surely the manager would appoint his coaching team etc
Sounds like a load of Bullsh*t to me
That's my thinking ... unless he was part of Grimleys package (along with the others) and he couldn't bring him to Monaghan?
Maybe that's spin from someone - or maybe the IN is wrong.
It is all a bit of a mess. I cannot help thinking that if the campaign to undermine PMcD had not been so insistent that a new trainer and possibly new assistant to freshen things up might have been better than the chaos we are in now.
Quote from: Logan on September 13, 2009, 09:13:10 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 13, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
How would you expect me to prove a verbal agreement?
Provide some source or evidence there was ever an agreement between Grimley and the CB - There never was.
There may have been between Grimley and others - but not the CB - which is your allegation ... and as yet unproven.
Is that the party line you're going with....
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 14, 2009, 04:29:27 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 13, 2009, 09:13:10 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 13, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
How would you expect me to prove a verbal agreement?
Provide some source or evidence there was ever an agreement between Grimley and the CB - There never was.
There may have been between Grimley and others - but not the CB - which is your allegation ... and as yet unproven.
Is that the party line you're going with....
Look - there's no point in trying to argue with you because you've no proof and are just trying to spread lies.
You've just thrown out a statement above with no proof or substance.
No one thinks the CB have displayed themselves as the epitome of professionalism and efficiency - but at the same time - no one - not even Grimley has even suggested for a second there was any dishonesty involved on the Armagh County Boards part this time round - except for you.
Armagh are certainly at a crossroads and people spreading unfounded gossip and rumour is not helping and just adding to the suspicion which is not needed.
Quote from: armaghniac on September 13, 2009, 11:08:08 PM
It is all a bit of a mess. I cannot help thinking that if the campaign to undermine PMcD had not been so insistent that a new trainer and possibly new assistant to freshen things up might have been better than the chaos we are in now.
Looks like a good option the way things have turned out!
What is the story with John Rafferty?
Quote from: Logan on September 14, 2009, 08:09:45 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 14, 2009, 04:29:27 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 13, 2009, 09:13:10 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 13, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
How would you expect me to prove a verbal agreement?
Provide some source or evidence there was ever an agreement between Grimley and the CB - There never was.
There may have been between Grimley and others - but not the CB - which is your allegation ... and as yet unproven.
Is that the party line you're going with....
Look - there's no point in trying to argue with you because you've no proof and are just trying to spread lies.
You've just thrown out a statement above with no proof or substance.
No one thinks the CB have displayed themselves as the epitome of professionalism and efficiency - but at the same time - no one - not even Grimley has even suggested for a second there was any dishonesty involved on the Armagh County Boards part this time round - except for you.
Armagh are certainly at a crossroads and people spreading unfounded gossip and rumour is not helping and just adding to the suspicion which is not needed.
That's a joke - who has been filling you with propaganda?
The county executive went back on their word to put their agreement with PG in writing. Obviosly that can't be proven. It can't be proven that they were negotiating with Grimley through the selection committee (2 of which are exec board mombers) either, so are you going to deny that happed too ?
We're not going to agree on this so it's best for everyone else reading the thread if we move on.
Best options now? I don't think there is anyone inside the county capable of doing the job.
Pete Mc Grath and John Rafferty although Rafferty didn't cut it with Pete's home club this year.
It's forward we want to go - not back
funny enough pete was interviewed by the " wee county " last week, i dont see him as being a runner for us,
tonite should be good crack,
for my own part i do think grmley was premature for jumping ship so there is blame on both sides.
mc alinden i believe was approached as a safe pair of hands and has said no, so the feeling is that the clubs will be asked to re nominate ans a new committee will be set up
I believe there is a meeting in the City Hotel tonight - that should be good fun. Talk about putting petrol on a fire. :o
As others have said, it's got very very messy. I would hope the players talked to the board and got their facts straight first before releasing that statement. If they did so, and still weren't happy with things then i'd be more comfortable with them going down that route if they felt that's what it took. Otherwise they've just enflamed an already bad state of affairs.
As for the Plunkett Donaghy story, that's just too ridiculous to be anything other than a wind up. Sadly until we get someone appointed it's going to be silly season on names linked to the post.
I don't know how the county board is going to resolve this. A full and frank exchange of views tonight will help. Allow people to get things off their chest and to get a fuller handle on the events of the past few weeks. But there have been so many claims and counterclaims, and rumours over the past few weeks, who knows what the real version of events is? Assuming the clubs are happy, the CB i'd imagine will have to start the selection process again and try to draw a line under recent events. There will be some strong views exchanged tonight and personally speaking i wouldn't fancy being in Kevin Brady's shoes.
any word on the meeting?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 14, 2009, 10:54:26 PM
any word on the meeting?
You not see any white smoke from Brady yet?
Quote from: Logan on September 14, 2009, 10:58:06 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 14, 2009, 10:54:26 PM
any word on the meeting?
You not see any white smoke from Brady yet?
Nope, hasnt reached me yet, did they all kiss and hug and make up or what?
I heard that Plunkett Donaghy story all the way over here this past weekend
this is all a joke. Unless there is something major I have missed in the last 40 odd pages, but its seems clear that Grimley has let himself down badly jumping the gun. What part of the process can he not or does not think he should have to, follow, twice now? Kernan was able to go through interview in Galway for example. Good decision making (under pressure) and rational choices are things you think should be importnt in the managers role. Have to say Grimley has raised further doubts for me by his actions. Surely there are others who are capable to take on this role??? :-\
John Maughan was approached - he's thinking about it
Diz and Loco put a strong case forward last night, they could be heard all the way from the shambles ;D ;D
as armagh people the meeting is confidential we do not need to continue to provide newspapers, media and other counties information which is of interest to armagh people only. no more comments please as i know that an I.T. expert is already trying to obtain the identity of some commentators on the board so that a key person in the process can make contact with them over unfounded comments. ( FACT ). God help them.
L see according to today's Irish news Sean Boylan is the latest name into the hat.
Not a snowballs chance in hell
on the bbc this morning
Armagh renew search for new boss
Peter McDonnell resigned as Armagh manager in July 2009
Armagh officials say they have reached an agreement with county players on the best way of appointing a new manager.
The players, unhappy at the lack of progress in finding Peter McDonnell's successor, met club chiefs on Monday.
"We are united on a way forward to find the best candidate for the position of manager," said Armagh PRO Paddy Nugent.
Pearse Og clubman and former Kildare assistant manager Paul Grimley had been seen as a frontrunner but he opted to join the Monaghan management team.
It is understood clubs will be asked to re-nominate candidates and a new selection committee will be set up.
McDonnell resigned in July 2009, a year after leading Armagh to the Ulster Championship.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on September 15, 2009, 10:10:43 AM
It is understood clubs will be asked to re-nominate candidates and a new selection committee will be set up.
FFS
This is some charade
If you didnt laugh at them you would cry :D
Quote from: thewanderer on September 15, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
no more comments please as i know that an I.T. expert is already trying to obtain the identity of some commentators on the board so that a key person in the process can make contact with them over unfounded comments. ( FACT ). God help them.
:D
Quote from: thewanderer on September 15, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
as armagh people the meeting is confidential we do not need to continue to provide newspapers, media and other counties information which is of interest to armagh people only. no more comments please as i know that an I.T. expert is already trying to obtain the identity of some commentators on the board so that a key person in the process can make contact with them over unfounded comments. ( FACT ). God help them.
OMG :D
I wonder when the new deadline is now for the Manager to be in place?
Quote from: thewanderer on September 15, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
as armagh people the meeting is confidential we do not need to continue to provide newspapers, media and other counties information which is of interest to armagh people only. no more comments please as i know that an I.T. expert is already trying to obtain the identity of some commentators on the board so that a key person in the process can make contact with them over unfounded comments. ( FACT ). God help them.
is that FACT is in you know what you talking about or FACT as in the Federaction Against Copyright Theft? LOL
rte quoting sean boylan as saying he is not interested( take up too much time etc) what is teh irish news up to these days
Quote from: naka on September 15, 2009, 03:24:51 PM
rte quoting sean boylan as saying he is not interested( take up too much time etc) what is teh irish news up to these days
Well I'd be amazed if there was no truth to the story of an effort to get Grimley back to Armagh
Irish Examiner says Billy Morgan has ruled himself out. Too travelling apparently.
Quote from: Lecale2 on September 15, 2009, 03:55:35 PM
Irish Examiner says Billy Morgan has ruled himself out. Too travelling apparently.
Luckily for Armagh his long lost cousin Jackie has offered his services, just so long as his backroom team of Paddy Murphy and "Gut" are approved. :D
Quote"We are united on a way forward to find the best candidate for the position of manager," said Armagh PRO Paddy Nugent.
Does this remind anyone of of "There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
Comical Paddy! ;D
Quote from: StGallsGAA on September 15, 2009, 04:20:11 PM
Quote"We are united on a way forward to find the best candidate for the position of manager," said Armagh PRO Paddy Nugent.
Does this remind anyone of of "There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
Comical Paddy! ;D
PJ O'Hare in the frame
Quote from: gorm agus bui on September 15, 2009, 04:27:43 PM
Quote from: StGallsGAA on September 15, 2009, 04:20:11 PM
Quote"We are united on a way forward to find the best candidate for the position of manager," said Armagh PRO Paddy Nugent.
Does this remind anyone of of "There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
Comical Paddy! ;D
PJ O'Hare in the frame
Must be a big frame ;D
Quote from: naka on September 15, 2009, 03:24:51 PM
rte quoting sean boylan as saying he is not interested( take up too much time etc) what is teh irish news up to these days
You defintley get the impression that the Irish News is making it up as it's going along, I mean Plunkett Donaghy?
I did hear off a few people that the Irish News has been ringing around Armagh to find out what's going on. Obviously someone has spun them a pile of shite and good old Kenny has hoovered it all up. I mean Plunkeet FFS has he even ever managed a team, let alone a county team?
Anyways possibly time to link Pillar Caffrey with the role.
I heard that Pillar Caffrey is in the frame.
Quote from: thewanderer on September 15, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
as armagh people the meeting is confidential we do not need to continue to provide newspapers, media and other counties information which is of interest to armagh people only. no more comments please as i know that an I.T. expert is already trying to obtain the identity of some commentators on the board so that a key person in the process can make contact with them over unfounded comments. ( FACT ). God help them.
Well i'm glad that's all they have to do or annoy them!!
The Irish News is adopting a clever campaign here.
They plan to name anyone ever involved in a County team so when a new Armagh manager is announced the headline will scream "You heard it here first"!!
I wonder who the Irish News will link us with tomorrow? They're going to have to come with some scoop to beat the Plunkett one though.
It's a slow news time of the year for the readership, what with Kerry and Cork in the final.
Reliable source says the Sunday game panel has been offered the post. FACT!!
Quote from: Muhammed McCarthy on September 15, 2009, 04:15:27 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on September 15, 2009, 03:55:35 PM
Irish Examiner says Billy Morgan has ruled himself out. Too travelling apparently.
Luckily for Armagh his long lost cousin Jackie has offered his services, just so long as his backroom team of Paddy Murphy and "Gut" are approved. :D
:D
Tremendous!!
A number of committed and genuine Armagh people including the CB & the 2009ppanel for want of a better description are trying to find a way to put the best person in place to take the county team to where it should be. Peter McDonnell was some way along that road but was badlytreated by people with a different agenda. It is important for all good Armagh people to get behind those charged with finding a new manager and give whoever thgat is our full support & the time to dothe jobWhich Peter didn't get.If Paul Grimley wants to honour his commitment to Monaghan give him the credit for sticking to his word whatever his reason for going that road, and lets get on with our own business without press interference - most of which seems to be unsubstantiated speculation anyway and not backed up by any evidence from either CB or those named - it seems they are happy to create division and controversy to fill column inches - dont give them any credence-maybe a drop in sales might give some of them cause for concern for their positions! When they report the FACTS we should support them. Get real IN & co
John Maughan has been approached again by an Armagh club looking to nominate him - he's allowing his name to go forward for consideration.
This is from a fairly good source in the Irish News
Have you not read what went before? Since when has the Irish News had a sensible position on this or any other issue in Armagh? Death columns and fixtures are their forte - get a grip!
Quote from: oraiste on September 16, 2009, 01:52:24 AM
Have you not read what went before? Since when has the Irish News had a sensible position on this or any other issue in Armagh? Death columns and fixtures are their forte - get a grip!
He might have got the info from the guy who compiles the death column making it a 'good source' in the Irish News.
Heard big Plunkett maight just have thrown the spanner in the works that started the whole thing off. When Paul Grimley seen who was coming after him he jumped the ditch... just like 89.
Quote from: botman on September 15, 2009, 06:10:36 PM
I did hear off a few people that the Irish News has been ringing around Armagh to find out what's going on. Obviously someone has spun them a pile of shite and good old Kenny has hoovered it all up. I mean Plunkeet FFS has he even ever managed a team, let alone a county team?
Are you not from Moy? He'd a spell with them. Took them down i'm told. ::)
The way forward from here in terms of identifying who can do the job is not a task i'd envy anyone.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 16, 2009, 09:17:53 AM
Quote from: botman on September 15, 2009, 06:10:36 PM
I did hear off a few people that the Irish News has been ringing around Armagh to find out what's going on. Obviously someone has spun them a pile of shite and good old Kenny has hoovered it all up. I mean Plunkeet FFS has he even ever managed a team, let alone a county team?
Are you not from Moy? He'd a spell with them. Took them down i'm told. ::)
No. Where did Plunkett take them down too? Mosney?
So forgetting about what has gone before, who would you like to see get the job?
If anything was possible, what would get people excited for the McKenna Cup??
What about Martin McHugh?
believe it ir not, i'd love to see someone like Peter Canavan come on board
John O Mahony.His daughter is living in Armagh-- similar to Joe going to Galway as that where his mother was from. ;D
Quote from: wobbller on September 17, 2009, 09:31:44 AM
John Maughan.His daughter living in Armagh similar to Joe going to Galway as that where his mother was from.
I think you're referring to john o'mahony - whose daughter lives in lurgan.
Armagh need a fresh approach here. Grimley is gone. All of the options i see are mediocre middle of the road at best.
Arsene Wenger?
Half Viable candidates within the county in my view, none of which set the pulse racing...
Donal Murtagh
Justin McNulty
John Rafferty
Peter Rafferty
Brian McAlinden
Paul Kelly
viable coaching / assistant candidates...
bumpy o'hagan
diarmaid marsden
Paul McShane
Adrian Clarke
Brendan Hughes
Justin McNulty
Mattie Lennon
That about it?
Some of the names on that list ..... ::)
Quote from: thebandit on September 17, 2009, 11:05:42 AM
Some of the names on that list ..... ::)
exactly.
unfortunately, i don't think i'm missing the next mickey harte out with the list
Mentioned him before, but it hasnt been mentioned since..................what about the current minor manager/management?
Quote from: full back on September 17, 2009, 11:16:43 AM
Mentioned him before, but it hasnt been mentioned since..................what about the current minor manager/management?
Big, big jump from managing a bunch of teenagers to a group of intercounty footballers. Although I wouldn't mind seeing McShane follow this bunch of lads into the U21 set up à la Mickey Harte.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on September 17, 2009, 08:52:59 AM
believe it ir not, i'd love to see someone like Peter Canavan come on board
I'm sure you would :D :D
what a load sh-- get back to work!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
Having watched queens over the past three years i've seen the transformation of that team and particularly some of their players under aidan o'rourke. I know he's young but i'd like to see him involved in some capacity
Quote from: The GAA on September 17, 2009, 10:14:09 AM
Half Viable candidates within the county in my view, none of which set the pulse racing...
Donal Murtagh
Justin McNulty
John Rafferty
Peter Rafferty
Brian McAlinden
Paul Kelly
viable coaching / assistant candidates...
bumpy o'hagan
diarmaid marsden
Paul McShane
Adrian Clarke
Brendan Hughes
Justin McNulty
Mattie Lennon
That about it?
That's depressing
I don't find it at all strange that many Armagh people would like to see a Tyrone man taking charge.
Jimmy Cricket is the man for the job!
Why don't Armagh approach Pete McGrath? What are the chances he might be interested in the job?
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
Would Donal Murtagh not look the ticket, very similar case study to big Joe - either way a decision needs to be made quick. It must be very frustrating for potential players and supporters.
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
The first decent suggestion I seen on this thread yet.
If Peter Rafferty still doesn't want it then O'Rourke is the logical choice.
Grimely was always going to be a mistake and I'm glad he's stuffed it up for himself.
Quote from: Donagh on September 18, 2009, 09:19:46 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
The first decent suggestion I seen on this thread yet.
If Peter Rafferty still doesn't want it then O'Rourke is the logical choice.
Grimely was always going to be a mistake and I'm glad he's stuffed it up for himself.
I think it's too early for AOR to be #1
Perhaps he could work alongside Pete McGrath?
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 18, 2009, 09:23:20 AM
Quote from: Donagh on September 18, 2009, 09:19:46 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
The first decent suggestion I seen on this thread yet.
If Peter Rafferty still doesn't want it then O'Rourke is the logical choice.
Grimely was always going to be a mistake and I'm glad he's stuffed it up for himself.
I think it's too early for AOR to be #1
Perhaps he could work alongside Pete McGrath?
No, he's good enough, smart enough and young enough - let him at it.
If you had a team on the verge of AI success next year or so I'd say yeh AOR is too young and inexperienced - but you're not.
You've got to look at it with a 2 - 3 year plan and that gives him plenty of time to improve and get his game right.
I'd give him a clean slate and let him at it.
AOR whilst a nice guy doesnt cut it for me at the moment, let him build up his experience working with club sides and then let him loose on the county,
at the moment i would be happy with mc alinden/rafferty to rebuild and consolidate
Well add him to the ticket then - you need to think succession ... so we're not in this mess next time round
Quote from: Donagh on September 18, 2009, 09:19:46 AM
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
The first decent suggestion I seen on this thread yet.
If Peter Rafferty still doesn't want it then O'Rourke is the logical choice.
Grimely was always going to be a mistake and I'm glad he's stuffed it up for himself.
Hopefully Aidan will be busy with dromintee next year
Logan you appear to be a complete p***k making comments in relation to Paul Grimley when you obviously dont know the man or the reasons for not taking the Armagh job. I hope the I.T. expert finds out who you are.!!!!! Stick to factual comments not Walt Disney ones.
WTF... an IT expert - this has to be O NEILL on a total wind up.. :D :D
lads we were jumping about talking about mcgeeney coming back at one stage in this thread,aidan orourke has more managerial experience then mcgeeney,why do we have to have a big name?sometimes the younger manager with fresh ideas and commiment can deliver,look at the fella who took wexford,name escapes me at the minute,jason rayan is it?
Quote from: rootthemout on September 18, 2009, 03:04:19 PM
lads we were jumping about talking about mcgeeney coming back at one stage in this thread,aidan orourke has more managerial experience then mcgeeney,why do we have to have a big name?sometimes the younger manager with fresh ideas and commiment can deliver,look at the fella who took wexford,name escapes me at the minute,jason rayan is it?
Who has Aidan O Rourke managed, Queens? hardly more experience than Mc Geeney
Think he meant before he took the job
Quote from: Onion Bag on September 18, 2009, 03:07:17 PM
Quote from: rootthemout on September 18, 2009, 03:04:19 PM
lads we were jumping about talking about mcgeeney coming back at one stage in this thread,aidan orourke has more managerial experience then mcgeeney,why do we have to have a big name?sometimes the younger manager with fresh ideas and commiment can deliver,look at the fella who took wexford,name escapes me at the minute,jason rayan is it?
Who has Aidan O Rourke managed, Queens? hardly more experience than Mc Geeney
how do you work that one out?
How do you work out that managing a University team gives you more experience than manaing a Senior intercounty team,
hardly a comparison
I think the point was that when McGeeney took on Kildare he had as much experience as AOR has now ... maybe more.
But not now of course
I dread the inevitable nepotism arguments!
Quote from: rootthemout on September 18, 2009, 03:04:19 PM
lads we were jumping about talking about mcgeeney coming back at one stage in this thread,aidan orourke has more managerial experience then mcgeeney,why do we have to have a big name?sometimes the younger manager with fresh ideas and commiment can deliver,look at the fella who took wexford,name escapes me at the minute,jason rayan is it?
Root clearly argues that AOR has more managerial experience than Mc Geeny, i was only wondering how he came to that conclusion
Quote from: Onion Bag on September 18, 2009, 03:23:10 PM
Quote from: rootthemout on September 18, 2009, 03:04:19 PM
lads we were jumping about talking about mcgeeney coming back at one stage in this thread,aidan orourke has more managerial experience then mcgeeney,why do we have to have a big name?sometimes the younger manager with fresh ideas and commiment can deliver,look at the fella who took wexford,name escapes me at the minute,jason rayan is it?
Root clearly argues that AOR has more managerial experience than Mc Geeny, i was only wondering how he came to that conclusion
onion what im saying is people are talking about orourke having no experience,this was the same scenario mcgeeney was with kildare,orourke has every bit as much experience as mcgeeney and i dont think we can dismiss him for not having taken a county team.
Fair enough, i thought you meant he has more experience than Mc Geeney at the min, In My opinion, AOR is not the man for the job, he was not a good leader on the pitch like geezer was, he has little or no charisma, Mc Geeney is extremely charismatic,
Any younger players will look up to Geezer, so i think thats why Geezer could get into a postion like hes in,
had AOR gone for the same job, he wouldnt have had a snowballs chance
Quote from: Cúig huaire on September 18, 2009, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: Onion Bag on September 18, 2009, 03:45:52 PM
Mc Geeney is extremely charismatic,
:D :D :D :D :D :D
That deserves the roflcopter.
(http://www.fradycomputing.com/legodude522/Pictures/roflcopter.gif)
cha⋅ris⋅ma [kuh-riz-muh]
–noun, plural -ma⋅ta
1. A personal quality that gives an individual influence or authority over large numbers of people.
2. The special virtue of an office, function, position, etc., that confers or is thought to confer on the person holding it an unusual ability for leadership, worthiness of veneration, or the like.
What exactly is funny Cúig huaire? You don't have to swan about like Sean Connery to be charismatic. Have you confused charisma with charm?
Quote from: AFS on September 18, 2009, 06:10:37 PM
What exactly is funny Cúig huaire? You don't have to swan about like Sean Connery to be charismatic. Have you confused charisma with charm?
No, but Onion Bag seems to be very confused. He seems to think McGeeney has charisma? Maybe he drives a Mitsubish Charisma, but thats about as close as he`ll ever get.
And again, charisma is generally defined as an exceptional ability to lead, something McGeeney has a pretty decent track record of. You know with captaining his club, county, province and country and all that.
Are you sure you understand the definition of the word charisma?
Quote from: AFS on September 18, 2009, 06:24:41 PM
And again, charisma is generally defined as an exceptional ability to lead, something McGeeney has a pretty decent track record of. You know with captaining his club, county, province and country and all that.
Are you sure you understand the definition of the word charisma?
Cheers for the support AFS, you know where im coming from ;)
If AOR got the job would that not be a similar position to Joe Kernan getting it with his sons playing?
Could be good craic when Aiden takes Martin off
Funny how everyone is throwing names around like confetti but the one obvious candidate within the county hardly getting a mention is Donal Murtagh. A young manager, who has won 3 Ulster clubs, one AI and another AI final appearance, in the space of 4 years. Managing Crossmaglen for me is pretty much equivalent to managing a county team.
Strange that. Maybe we don't always see something that's straight in front of our eyes.
Have to say i like the o'rourke suggestion. team him up with marsden and maybe someone like Jim McCorry and let them at it. Bright, young and hungry.
Don't know donal murtagh myself but that htere isn't a big push for him from cross is quite telling, is it not?
While i take your point (pardon the pun) generally, McCorry has done very well with Kilcoo with very limited resources. He is also well spoken about by those who were involved with him at minor level. His role in that scenario is one of an older advisory capacity given the youth of the names i'd put out front.
no disrespect to donal but if the cross players do not consider him county management material then they know better than us. Also, i didn't want to go down this line, but who wouldn't have won what he did with that cross team?
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
Yes especially since his retirement from county duty (a fact not mentioned on here.) He is a young bright hungry manager with already a good track record. He had done well with queens and is highly regarded by anyone who has worked with him. Who else is there really? donal murtagh? maybe. The only thing regarding AOR would be the situation with trying to manage his own brothers which could be difficult and the kernans because there might only be one or two there if he was the manager. Anyway lets all get behind the minors tomorrow ans sort this god forsaken mess out next week!
Quote from: The GAA on September 19, 2009, 07:56:39 AM
Have to say i like the o'rourke suggestion. team him up with marsden and maybe someone like Jim McCorry and let them at it. Bright, young and hungry.
Don't know donal murtagh myself but that htere isn't a big push for him from cross is quite telling, is it not?
Jim mc corry? Roman Abramovich wouldnt have the money to pay him. ;)
Is Malachy O'Rourke not a potential option here lads? Won a Dublin SFC with UCD a couple of years back. Young, intelligent and knows his football. Managed Dromintee for a while too I believe.
Quote from: The GAA on September 19, 2009, 09:32:44 AM
While i take your point (pardon the pun) generally, McCorry has done very well with Kilcoo with very limited resources. He is also well spoken about by those who were involved with him at minor level. His role in that scenario is one of an older advisory capacity given the youth of the names i'd put out front.
no disrespect to donal but if the cross players do not consider him county management material then they know better than us. Also, i didn't want to go down this line, but who wouldn't have won what he did with that cross team?
Packie McConville and Ollie Short? (no disrepect meant to either man but just illustrating that good as that Cross team was, they weren't so far ahead that success at Ulster and All Ireland level was a given)
Quote from: The Pundit on September 19, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
Yes especially since his retirement from county duty (a fact not mentioned on here.) He is a young bright hungry manager with already a good track record. He had done well with queens and is highly regarded by anyone who has worked with him. Who else is there really? donal murtagh? maybe. The only thing regarding AOR would be the situation with trying to manage his own brothers which could be difficult and the kernans because there might only be one or two there if he was the manager. Anyway lets all get behind the minors tomorrow ans sort this god forsaken mess out next week!
Quote from: The GAA on September 19, 2009, 07:56:39 AM
Have to say i like the o'rourke suggestion. team him up with marsden and maybe someone like Jim McCorry and let them at it. Bright, young and hungry.
Don't know donal murtagh myself but that htere isn't a big push for him from cross is quite telling, is it not?
Jim mc corry? Roman Abramovich wouldnt have the money to pay him. ;)
Record with Queens is fairly unremarkable although he took them over at a bad time. Think Aidan is far to close to the current panel as a player. The same reservations exist with regards his brothers as would there with Joe for his sons. Bound to have been a bit of agitation amongs the panel at him starting against Monaghan as well.
Quote from: The GAA on September 19, 2009, 07:56:39 AM
Have to say i like the o'rourke suggestion. team him up with marsden and maybe someone like Jim McCorry and let them at it. Bright, young and hungry.
Don't know donal murtagh myself but that htere isn't a big push for him from cross is quite telling, is it not?
Thats because cross want to keep him!
I hear Lofty Larkin is looking for a job at the minute. He is off the drink and has been sighted around his old haunts in Newry over the last couple of weeks. He would be an ideal man for the job and lets face it he would probably be at the front of the queue at the minute. Apparently Marty Bogroll has already refused to take the job. ;)
Quote from: Cúig huaire on September 21, 2009, 12:50:56 PM
I hear Lofty Larkin is looking for a job at the minute. He is off the drink and has been sighted around his old haunts in Newry over the last couple of weeks. He would be an ideal man for the job and lets face it he would probably be at the front of the queue at the minute. Apparently Marty Bogroll has already refused to take the job. ;)
Would be afraid to involve Lofty in the process or to even interview him incase he went whingeing to the press after it ;)
The new down management team might have ticked all the boxes for armagh?
Have to say i don't like the thought of Pete McGrath being involved at all at all.
Given the situation i'd take a gamble on someone like aidan o'rourke too.
Aidan O'Rourke is your man.
Ive never heard so many Sigerson players that played under him have such high praise for his managerial capabilities.
Quote from: full back on September 21, 2009, 12:55:50 PM
Quote from: Cúig huaire on September 21, 2009, 12:50:56 PM
I hear Lofty Larkin is looking for a job at the minute. He is off the drink and has been sighted around his old haunts in Newry over the last couple of weeks. He would be an ideal man for the job and lets face it he would probably be at the front of the queue at the minute. Apparently Marty Bogroll has already refused to take the job. ;)
Would be afraid to involve Lofty in the process or to even interview him incase he went whingeing to the press after it ;)
Word is Lofty turned the job down last week, so he may well go running to the Newry Reporter this week. Apparently now that lofty is on the wagon even he can see that only a fool would take the job on.
Quote from: DuffleKing on September 21, 2009, 07:08:24 PM
The new down management team might have ticked all the boxes for armagh?
Have to say i don't like the thought of Pete McGrath being involved at all at all.
Given the situation i'd take a gamble on someone like aidan o'rourke too.
I would go for Kermit the Frog over McGrath
Has Kermit won 2 All Irelands? Then again did Big Joe? :D
If McGrath is so good, why did Down reject him as their manager? ::)
Quote from: The Pundit on September 19, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
Quote from: Logan on September 18, 2009, 08:28:20 AM
Maybe Aidan O'Rourke is the man?
Yes especially since his retirement from county duty (a fact not mentioned on here.) He is a young bright hungry manager with already a good track record. He had done well with queens and is highly regarded by anyone who has worked with him. Who else is there really? donal murtagh? maybe. The only thing regarding AOR would be the situation with trying to manage his own brothers which could be difficult and the kernans because there might only be one or two there if he was the manager. Anyway lets all get behind the minors tomorrow ans sort this god forsaken mess out next week!
Quote from: The GAA on September 19, 2009, 07:56:39 AM
Have to say i like the o'rourke suggestion. team him up with marsden and maybe someone like Jim McCorry and let them at it. Bright, young and hungry.
Don't know donal murtagh myself but that htere isn't a big push for him from cross is quite telling, is it not?
Jim mc corry? Roman Abramovich wouldnt have the money to pay him. ;)
:D :D :D :D :D :D
If there was ever a man hungrier for an aul pound I have yet to meet him. Absolutely no to McCorry.
How would you have this knowledge Stew as you haven't been living in Ireland for at least 15years. Far away eyesight and slander doesn't always go down well. stick to your chosen sport soccer and baseball ;)
Quote from: thewanderer on September 22, 2009, 09:38:31 AM
How would you have this knowledge Stew as you haven't been living in Ireland for at least 15years. Far away eyesight and slander doesn't always go down well. stick to your chosen sport soccer and baseball ;)
His knowledge seems to be on a par with the Armagh locals. ;)
McGrath declares Armagh interest
Pete McGrath has expressed an interest in becoming the next Armagh football manager.
According to the Irish News, the 1991 and '94 Down All-Ireland winning manager is open to the idea of managing the Mourne County's biggest rivals, having been controversially overlooked for the managerial vacancy in his native county earlier this month.
"If I was approached, I would give the offer serious consideration. If Armagh were interested in me, I would certainly think about it," he said.
The former Ireland International Rule boss admitted that he is still hurting from the circumstances surrounding his unsuccessful bid for a return to Down hot seat.
When asked if the pain had started to ease, he replied: "It hasn't really. I think it is one of those things that is going to linger.
"In saying that, I have got to move on. I can't allow my life to be overwhelmed by something that was devastating and very hurtful. It is still very much there and I just wouldn't be on top of the world at the moment.
"But it's up to me to make sure that it doesn't take a grip. No-one should allow that to happen because it would all sorts of inroads into you health and well-being."
How would Armagh fans take to a Down man incharge? :D
Quote from: ziggysego on September 22, 2009, 12:41:48 PM
McGrath declares Armagh interest
Pete McGrath has expressed an interest in becoming the next Armagh football manager.
According to the Irish News, the 1991 and '94 Down All-Ireland winning manager is open to the idea of managing the Mourne County's biggest rivals, having been controversially overlooked for the managerial vacancy in his native county earlier this month.
"If I was approached, I would give the offer serious consideration. If Armagh were interested in me, I would certainly think about it," he said.
The former Ireland International Rule boss admitted that he is still hurting from the circumstances surrounding his unsuccessful bid for a return to Down hot seat.
When asked if the pain had started to ease, he replied: "It hasn't really. I think it is one of those things that is going to linger.
"In saying that, I have got to move on. I can't allow my life to be overwhelmed by something that was devastating and very hurtful. It is still very much there and I just wouldn't be on top of the world at the moment.
"But it's up to me to make sure that it doesn't take a grip. No-one should allow that to happen because it would all sorts of inroads into you health and well-being."
How would Armagh fans take to a Down man incharge? :D
Well if he isnt good enough to manage Down he certainly isnt good enough to manage Armagh
Pete McGrath a proven winner as the Armagh manager would be an excellent choice. I hope he is approached and offered the position with Aidan O'Rourke as his number 2.
Pat Daly: i would second that!!
Simple question. Who is good enough to manage this Armagh side ?
With the whole circus that has surrouded the selection process it understandable that those who may be capable have opted to declare a non interest. With all the "shenanigans" it would appear that the successful candidate will be on a hiding to nothing. I wouldnt be suprised if any new new appointment didnt see out two years !
McGrath is an egoist with an abysmal record in charge of the Down seniors in the modern era. Sure they had to practically frog march him out the door. Maybe alright for the underage teams he shouldn't be let near a county senior team again. A passionate Down man, he's never shown anything other than contempt for Armagh. I for one would certainly reconsider attending any Armagh game with that man in charge.
What about your man, whats his name?? Paul Grimley! Has anyone suggested him, he would make a good manager in my humble opinion
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 01:33:45 PM
McGrath is an egoist with an abysmal record in charge of the Down seniors in the modern era. Sure they had to practically frog march him out the door. Maybe alright for the underage teams he shouldn't be let near a county senior team again. A passionate Down man, he's never shown anything other than contempt for Armagh. I for one would certainly reconsider attending any Armagh game with that man in charge.
an abysmal record, ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: T O Hare on September 22, 2009, 01:47:46 PM
an abysmal record, ::) ::) ::)
Well sorry, if you count 2 McKenna cups in eight years as worth writing home about, by all means...
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 01:52:54 PM
Quote from: T O Hare on September 22, 2009, 01:47:46 PM
an abysmal record, ::) ::) ::)
Well sorry, if you count 2 McKenna cups in eight years as worth writing home about, by all means...
no mention of Pete for the wee county i
for my own part don`t believe he is the man for Armagh, altho the sound of guys beating down a door to get the gig is deafening
Rumours today that Flavio Briatore was spotted in the Mall last night meeting Armagh officials, but he put out a statement today 'this is one car crash I am not getting involved in'
Martin mc quillan is starting to grow on me
Quote from: BerfArmagh on September 22, 2009, 03:14:46 PM
Martin mc quillan is starting to grow on me
They say Clearasil is very effective for that.
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 01:33:45 PM
McGrath is an egoist with an abysmal record in charge of the Down seniors in the modern era. Sure they had to practically frog march him out the door. Maybe alright for the underage teams he shouldn't be let near a county senior team again. A passionate Down man, he's never shown anything other than contempt for Armagh. I for one would certainly reconsider attending any Armagh game with that man in charge.
What a stupid comment to make! Anyone with any knowledge of football knows that Pete McGrath is one of the most successful managers in GAA ever. He's the man that took the Down job when no-one else wanted it and led Down to 2 Sam Maguire titles within the next 4 years. The parallels with the current Armagh situation should not be lost on anyone. After 1994 when the Down team of that era started to age it wouldn't have made any difference who was in charge. McGrath had already got the most out of them. Armagh should pull out all the stops to get McGrath. He showed Brian McAlinden how to win an Ulster U21 title only 5 months ago and people on this board are calling for McAlinden to be the next Armagh manager. Get real!
He's a Down p***k living on past glories, we don't want him. As I said, alright for one of our underage teams, maybe the U16 or U14 development squads but with only two McKenna cups from '94-'02 to show for himself at senior level he'd be better off in Carlow or Kilkenny.
He had it but he lost it. Nice guy for sure, respect for 91 and 94 etc but he's from Down. End of. Next?
Quote from: PatDaly on September 22, 2009, 03:49:29 PM
He showed Brian McAlinden how to win an Ulster U21 title only 5 months ago and people on this board are calling for McAlinden to be the next Armagh manager. Get real!
So he had planned to be a point down heading into injury time in the knowledge that his team would grab a goal with the last kick of the game? Interesting.
Its not as if you are are overloaded with candidates capable of doing any county job to be casting aspersions on a winner.
football in the top level in Armagh is a very recent but shortlived experience for you shower
Jeez I hate new money!! No class
Quote from: AFS on September 22, 2009, 04:18:03 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on September 22, 2009, 03:49:29 PM
He showed Brian McAlinden how to win an Ulster U21 title only 5 months ago and people on this board are calling for McAlinden to be the next Armagh manager. Get real!
So he had planned to be a point down heading into injury time in the knowledge that his team would grab a goal with the last kick of the game? Interesting.
Of course this wasn't the way McGrath planned it out 5 months ago in Casement but Down were still able to get the result. Some managers are lucky and you need that wee bit of luck in sport to win. Contrast Brian McAlinden's Armagh team of 2000 who very unlucky against Kerry and lost the match by one of the last kicks in the game with Pete McGrath's Down team of 1994 and 1991 who got all the breaks (Dublin had a penalty saved, Meath if given 2 more minutes would have won the game). Brian McAlinden has been a great servant for Armagh but unfortunately he's an unlucky manager. McGrath in addition to having a great football brain also has that lucky touch. How many more All-Irelands would Armagh have if we had that wee bit of luck?
Have to agree with Donagh on wee Pete. Not a f*ckin chance - or any down man for that matter.
On top of him being a down man, he hasn't got the credentials for the modern game. Not even in his own county - where they are preoccupied with the past - was he considered good enough any more.
An Armagh man can and will do the job.
I mentioned Malachy O'Rourke a few pages back and no one commented, either in favour or against. Has as much or more experience as AOR in terms of management at college level and also has a Dublin SFC under his belt with UCD. Any comment?
Pete McGrath interested according to RTE Sport.
Confusion reigns overall.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on September 22, 2009, 06:52:06 PM
Pete McGrath interested according to RTE Sport.
Confusion reigns overall.
I think McGrath was a good manager, how good he is now is debatable but I think he could still do a good job for a county team, that said he will never ever manage Armagh, it doesnt bear thinking about.
I heard at the weekend that the only name that has actually been put forward for the job is Niel Smith?
Any truth in that?
After all the shenanighans in the county, I think it has to be an outsider.
Is the current squad good enough to win the AI in 2010?
Maybe we need a "development" manager until Geezer becomes available.
Pete McGrath will do rightly. As Pat Daly said, Aidan O'R would be a good side-kick.
Then Geezer and Aidan in 2 years time.
Quote from: fairplay on September 22, 2009, 06:38:37 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on September 22, 2009, 03:49:29 PM
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 01:33:45 PM
McGrath is an egoist with an abysmal record in charge of the Down seniors in the modern era. Sure they had to practically frog march him out the door. Maybe alright for the underage teams he shouldn't be let near a county senior team again. A passionate Down man, he's never shown anything other than contempt for Armagh. I for one would certainly reconsider attending any Armagh game with that man in charge.
What a stupid comment to make! Anyone with any knowledge of football knows that Pete McGrath is one of the most successful managers in GAA ever. He's the man that took the Down job when no-one else wanted it and led Down to 2 Sam Maguire titles within the next 4 years. The parallels with the current Armagh situation should not be lost on anyone. After 1994 when the Down team of that era started to age it wouldn't have made any difference who was in charge. McGrath had already got the most out of them. Armagh should pull out all the stops to get McGrath. He showed Brian McAlinden how to win an Ulster U21 title only 5 months ago and people on this board are calling for McAlinden to be the next Armagh manager. Get real!
So by your own logic the Cork U-21 Manager in turn showed McGrath how to win in the last minute.
My point is that McGrath is usually a lucky manager and its the wee things that make all the difference in sport between winning and losing. As a reminder the following summary of success and experience is what Armagh will be missing out on if they pass up this opportunity to appoint McGrath as the new manager.
Part of the backroom team that helped guide St Colman's to two All-Ireland Colleges titles in 1986 and 1988, McGrath was also involved with Hogan Cup successes in 1993 and 1998 with the Newry secondary school.
He guided Down to only their second ever All-Ireland minor football title in 1987 and was appointed manager of the Down senior team in 1989. He enjoyed outstanding success in the early 90s, helping Down to memorable All-Ireland victories in 1991 and 1994 before finally stepping down as manager of the Mourne men after the 2002 championship.
But he's not good enough to manage Armagh ??? ??? ???
Quote from: PatDaly on September 22, 2009, 08:18:24 PM
My point is that McGrath is usually a lucky manager and its the wee things that make all the difference in sport between winning and losing. As a reminder the following summary of success and experience is what Armagh will be missing out on if they pass up this opportunity to appoint McGrath as the new manager.
Part of the backroom team that helped guide St Colman's to two All-Ireland Colleges titles in 1986 and 1988, McGrath was also involved with Hogan Cup successes in 1993 and 1998 with the Newry secondary school.
He guided Down to only their second ever All-Ireland minor football title in 1987 and was appointed manager of the Down senior team in 1989. He enjoyed outstanding success in the early 90s, helping Down to memorable All-Ireland victories in 1991 and 1994 before finally stepping down as manager of the Mourne men after the 2002 championship.
But he's not good enough to manage Armagh ??? ??? ???
No, he's not
Down didn't think he was good enough to manage their senior team. Did they?
He wasn't too lucky in the Ulster Final '99. :D
Quote from: PatDaly on September 22, 2009, 08:18:24 PM
Quote from: fairplay on September 22, 2009, 06:38:37 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on September 22, 2009, 03:49:29 PM
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 01:33:45 PM
McGrath is an egoist with an abysmal record in charge of the Down seniors in the modern era. Sure they had to practically frog march him out the door. Maybe alright for the underage teams he shouldn't be let near a county senior team again. A passionate Down man, he's never shown anything other than contempt for Armagh. I for one would certainly reconsider attending any Armagh game with that man in charge.
What a stupid comment to make! Anyone with any knowledge of football knows that Pete McGrath is one of the most successful managers in GAA ever. He's the man that took the Down job when no-one else wanted it and led Down to 2 Sam Maguire titles within the next 4 years. The parallels with the current Armagh situation should not be lost on anyone. After 1994 when the Down team of that era started to age it wouldn't have made any difference who was in charge. McGrath had already got the most out of them. Armagh should pull out all the stops to get McGrath. He showed Brian McAlinden how to win an Ulster U21 title only 5 months ago and people on this board are calling for McAlinden to be the next Armagh manager. Get real!
So by your own logic the Cork U-21 Manager in turn showed McGrath how to win in the last minute.
My point is that McGrath is usually a lucky manager and its the wee things that make all the difference in sport between winning and losing. As a reminder the following summary of success and experience is what Armagh will be missing out on if they pass up this opportunity to appoint McGrath as the new manager.
Part of the backroom team that helped guide St Colman's to two All-Ireland Colleges titles in 1986 and 1988, McGrath was also involved with Hogan Cup successes in 1993 and 1998 with the Newry secondary school.
He guided Down to only their second ever All-Ireland minor football title in 1987 and was appointed manager of the Down senior team in 1989. He enjoyed outstanding success in the early 90s, helping Down to memorable All-Ireland victories in 1991 and 1994 before finally stepping down as manager of the Mourne men after the 2002 championship.
But he's not good enough to manage Armagh ??? ??? ???
He was good enough and he is certainly a long way better than some candidates that are getting mentioned right now however the fact remains his best days seem to be far behind him and also he is from Down, I never want to see a Down man manage Armagh, to me that is unthinkable.
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 08:23:33 PM
He wasn't too lucky in the Ulster Final '99. :D
Sure he was, he was lucky they wernt bate by twenty points that day.
And after that brilliant result, what did the Armagh managers do, brought that clampett from Louth in, upset the balance of the team and we end up throwing away an AI.
Quote from: Orior on September 22, 2009, 07:55:20 PM
After all the shenanighans in the county, I think it has to be an outsider.
Is the current squad good enough to win the AI in 2010?
Maybe we need a "development" manager until Geezer becomes available.
Pete McGrath will do rightly. As Pat Daly said, Aidan O'R would be a good side-kick.
Then Geezer and Aidan in 2 years time.
Orior, with respect, Pete McGrath will not do rightly. He is not up to the job.
I would rather take a chance on the likes of Neil Smyth or Martin McQuillan with the likes of Oisin/Paul/Diarmuid involved than McGrath. I dread to think where we would end up by the time he was finished, even after 1 year!
We can't count on Geezer ever being available for the position either.
The bigger question here is why is there such a lack of top class managerial talent available or interested in the job this time. Has Crossmaglen's dominance in Armagh damaged the managerial conveyor belt in the county for the immediate to mid-term future?
Quote from: BroJolly on September 22, 2009, 07:54:02 PM
I heard at the weekend that the only name that has actually been put forward for the job is Niel Smith?
Any truth in that?
Sincerely hope not; was talking to a reasonably prominent member of the Armagh Co Board the other day and he reckoned "no way", but then he is only one member and not one of the more influential ones.
Quote from: irunthev on September 22, 2009, 09:38:08 PM
The bigger question here is why is there such a lack of top class managerial talent available or interested in the job this time. Has Crossmaglen's dominance in Armagh damaged the managerial conveyor belt in the county for the immediate to mid-term future?
Not really. There are as many, if not more, good managers in Armagh as any county. For a multitude of reasons, the top 2 or 3 guys are unavailable so we're having to delve a bit deeper than we'd like.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 22, 2009, 08:34:24 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 22, 2009, 07:55:20 PM
After all the shenanighans in the county, I think it has to be an outsider.
Is the current squad good enough to win the AI in 2010?
Maybe we need a "development" manager until Geezer becomes available.
Pete McGrath will do rightly. As Pat Daly said, Aidan O'R would be a good side-kick.
Then Geezer and Aidan in 2 years time.
Orior, with respect, Pete McGrath will not do rightly. He is not up to the job.
I would rather take a chance on the likes of Neil Smyth or Martin McQuillan with the likes of Oisin/Paul/Diarmuid involved than McGrath. I dread to think where we would end up by the time he was finished, even after 1 year!
We can't count on Geezer ever being available for the position either.
Yes, but them boys have no experience of managing county teams, or taking teams to finals in Croke Park.
We either get someone with experience, or we go for a charismatic rookie.
Did Marty McQuillan take Cullyhanna? Or who has he managed?
Super footballer...
Is the problem here that whoever takes the job is only keeping warm for a few years till McGenney or Grimley become available again or a good team who can challenge for an AI is available? That's certainly the vibe I'm getting.
Sure who in their right mind would want that job?
Wee Pete could be like one of Ian óg's policemen out in Libya if he got the job :D :D :D
mc alinden /mc grane double act ;)
what are the bookies odds on this
I think Mc Grath could the put the manners and no small measure of self discipline into Armagh, and that would just be the supporters...
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2009, 05:01:25 PM
Mc Grath is overrated and won two all Irelands as a result of meeting a Meath team out on its feet after playing so many games in 1991, and a Charlie Redmond fluffed penalty in 1994.
He is long past his sell by date, particularly as far as the Armagh job is concerned.
The "whataboutery" and "ifs and buts" of some posters are just juvenile prattle. His record is impressive at schools, minor, U21 and senior county level. Every gaelic football game turns on little incidents - it is a very imperfect game and that's what makes it so compelling.
You could take every single Ulster and All-Ireland final of consequenec from the last 50 years and find an "if" here and a "but" there.
When will you get it into your thick head that it is only the final score that counts.
Pete was standing proudly at the final whistle in enough games to warrant a little respect. Having said that I don't think he is the man for this job.
Step forward Hoolie!
Quote from: Leo on September 23, 2009, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2009, 05:01:25 PM
Mc Grath is overrated and won two all Irelands as a result of meeting a Meath team out on its feet after playing so many games in 1991, and a Charlie Redmond fluffed penalty in 1994.
He is long past his sell by date, particularly as far as the Armagh job is concerned.
The "whataboutery" and "ifs and buts" of some posters are just juvenile prattle. His record is impressive at schools, minor, U21 and senior county level. Every gaelic football game turns on little incidents - it is a very imperfect game and that's what makes it so compelling.
You could take every single Ulster and All-Ireland final of consequenec from the last 50 years and find an "if" here and a "but" there.
When will you get it into your thick head that it is only the final score that counts.
Pete was standing proudly at the final whistle in enough games to warrant a little respect. Having said that I don't think he is the man for this job.
Step forward Hoolie!
Houlie wont touch it now after being told he was going to be the man, after having a yarn with Grimley he decided to withdraw from the fray.
Quote from: stew on September 23, 2009, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: Leo on September 23, 2009, 05:15:39 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on September 23, 2009, 05:01:25 PM
Mc Grath is overrated and won two all Irelands as a result of meeting a Meath team out on its feet after playing so many games in 1991, and a Charlie Redmond fluffed penalty in 1994.
He is long past his sell by date, particularly as far as the Armagh job is concerned.
The "whataboutery" and "ifs and buts" of some posters are just juvenile prattle. His record is impressive at schools, minor, U21 and senior county level. Every gaelic football game turns on little incidents - it is a very imperfect game and that's what makes it so compelling.
You could take every single Ulster and All-Ireland final of consequenec from the last 50 years and find an "if" here and a "but" there.
When will you get it into your thick head that it is only the final score that counts.
Pete was standing proudly at the final whistle in enough games to warrant a little respect. Having said that I don't think he is the man for this job.
Step forward Hoolie!
Houlie wont touch it now after being told he was going to be the man, after having a yarn with Grimley he decided to withdraw from the fray.
A very wise decision for all concerned.
Some of the posts here about McGrath are fairly petty. The man has a great track record in management, been successful at all levels. He doesn't really have anything to prove. If he still has the passion and focus then he'd be a strong contender. Personally i'd rather see someone from within the county who can instill a bit of passion back in the team. Donal Murtagh probably. By their own lofty standards Cross weren't doing that great for a few years until he came along.
A couple of years from now the likes of Paul McShane or Brendan Hughes could look like very strong senior managers. They both come across as focused, intelligent guys.
Comparing Ger Houlihan, Neil Smyth or Justin McNulty to Pete McGrath is similar to comparing Roy Keane to Martin O'Neill. Catch a grip McGrath by a long margin is the best candidate so far that has expressed interest in the Armagh management job.
Quote from: PatDaly on September 23, 2009, 09:59:37 PM
Comparing Ger Houlihan, Neil Smyth or Justin McNulty to Pete McGrath is similar to comparing Roy Keane to Martin O'Neill. Catch a grip McGrath by a long margin is the best candidate so far that has expressed interest in the Armagh management job.
I would rather have them then then Down's leftovers!
Lets have a bit of f**king pride!
PatDaly, I would say the vast majority of supporters wouldn't want McGrath and why the hell would we? Sure if we don't have a big name manager, what of it? I would much rather see an Armagh man get the job even if it meant appointing someone with no experience at InterCounty level than McGrath.
Quote from: PatDaly on September 23, 2009, 09:59:37 PM
Comparing Ger Houlihan, Neil Smyth or Justin McNulty to Pete McGrath is similar to comparing Roy Keane to Martin O'Neill. Catch a grip McGrath by a long margin is the best candidate so far that has expressed interest in the Armagh management job.
Perhaps Kenny Dalglish would be a more apt comparison for McGrath. Someone who had it about 15 years ago, but has been left behind by the modern game.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 23, 2009, 08:27:22 AM
Did Marty McQuillan take Cullyhanna? Or who has he managed?
Super footballer...
Clady, done a stint with St Pats , and was part of U-21 set up quite a few years ago.
Some of you boys sound like the English supporters, and their refusal of any outside manager.. Look where all their internal short sighted patriotic appointments got them over the years.
Quote from: Yes I Would on September 23, 2009, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 23, 2009, 08:27:22 AM
Did Marty McQuillan take Cullyhanna? Or who has he managed?
Super footballer...
Clady, done a stint with St Pats , and was part of U-21 set up quite a few years ago.
Some of you boys sound like the English supporters, and their refusal of any outside manager.. Look where all their internal short sighted patriotic appointments got them over the years.
What? Do you mean to tell me soccer supporters don't like outsiders? ::)
I dont care if it's an outside manager, I probably wouldn't mind if he was from a rival county but I do mind that he's gone for a management job in his own county (which is in the shit heap), didn't get it and people think he's good enough for Armagh!
Ill rephrase Englsih national soccer side, although id well believe that the emergence of foreign managers to the english game was frowned upon by the majority, 20 odd years ago (Im not old enough to remember the outcry).
Politics between individuals and county boards is much more critical in determining who gets a job rather than an individuals ability.
Surely Armagh supporters should see this with how the Grimley affair has been handled!!
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 04:01:22 PM
He's a Down p***k living on past glories, we don't want him. As I said, alright for one of our underage teams, maybe the U16 or U14 development squads but with only two McKenna cups from '94-'02 to show for himself at senior level he'd be better off in Carlow or Kilkenny.
nice donagh!
Quote from: Yes I Would on September 23, 2009, 10:24:14 PM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on September 23, 2009, 08:27:22 AM
Did Marty McQuillan take Cullyhanna? Or who has he managed?
Super footballer...
Clady, done a stint with St Pats , and was part of U-21 set up quite a few years ago.
Some of you boys sound like the English supporters, and their refusal of any outside manager.. Look where all their internal short sighted patriotic appointments got them over the years.
Marty McQuillan's never actually been our manager though has had 2 stints as trainer.
Quote from: lfdown2 on September 24, 2009, 10:08:11 AM
Quote from: Donagh on September 22, 2009, 04:01:22 PM
He's a Down p***k living on past glories, we don't want him. As I said, alright for one of our underage teams, maybe the U16 or U14 development squads but with only two McKenna cups from '94-'02 to show for himself at senior level he'd be better off in Carlow or Kilkenny.
nice donagh!
I hope Pete gets the job. Hughie wont have to fork out too much for travelling expenses, in fact Pete isnt one for expenses and lets be honest about it there isnt a queue of experienced managers beating down the county boards door looking for the job.
Grimley, the ideal man for the job, showed where his true loyalties lie, not with Armagh, but lining his own pocket with a handy number in Monaghan, a team that has won nothing and will win nothing and I am surprised no one has mentioned future president of the GAA, Jarlath Burns for the job.
I'm not gonna name names for the post just as long as the best man is appointed, i don't care if he's from Down, Tyrone or Cork...i don't care if he's 30 years of age or if the mans 90 as long as he can get us back up to where we belong. If the County Board select McGrath then so be it and I'll be 100% behind him and we can judge him on results, the same applies to Justin McNulty or any other candidate but one thing's for sure we are gonna need someone that is strong minded and their own man who will take no shit from anyone. The players will respect a guy like this and it appears that was not the case in the last few years.
There are a lot of politics going on within the Armagh setup and all's not as straight forward as you think between the County Board and the sponsors and senior players but if the right man comes in and gets his assurances from the County Board that there'll be no interference's from ANYONE he will soon keep the players in line too when they know who's BOSS
I'm with id on this. the best man for the job should get it (but not a tyrone or down man) :P
On a serious note i don't think McGrath is the right fit for armagh. He's regarded within the game now as being "old school" and past his time, as good as he was in his time. what was his backroom team for the down job?
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
I don't think appointing a player as manager is ideal. It is fine for Geezer going to Kildare where he knows few of the players, but O'Rourke is coming from the squad.
Quote from: The GAA on September 24, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
Quelle suprise. I dont see how it would be possible for to him to become manager so soon. Half of the panel cant stand the man from what I can gather. Last time I saw him manage he wasn't so clever looking UUJ v QUB, comprehensively outsmarted by McGuickan, maybe we should go for big adrain.
Quote from: The GAA on September 24, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
On a serious note i don't think McGrath is the right fit for armagh. He's regarded within the game now as being "old school" and past his time, as good as he was in his time. what was his backroom team for the down job?
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
Pete McGrath's wealth of experience and Aidan O'Rourke's new modern approach would be a great combination for Armagh. I can't understand this parochial childishness being displayed by certain Armagh "supporters" just because McGrath is from Down. If the man is good enough which he is then there should be nothing stopping Armagh from appointing him after he's gone through the agreed process.
Quote from: PatDaly on September 24, 2009, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: The GAA on September 24, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
On a serious note i don't think McGrath is the right fit for armagh. He's regarded within the game now as being "old school" and past his time, as good as he was in his time. what was his backroom team for the down job?
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
Pete McGrath's wealth of experience and Aidan O'Rourke's new modern approach would be a great combination for Armagh. I can't understand this parochial childishness being displayed by certain Armagh "supporters" just because McGrath is from Down. If the man is good enough which he is then there should be nothing stopping Armagh from appointing him after he's gone through the agreed process.
He's not good enough for Down but he's good enough for Armagh?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 24, 2009, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on September 24, 2009, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: The GAA on September 24, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
On a serious note i don't think McGrath is the right fit for armagh. He's regarded within the game now as being "old school" and past his time, as good as he was in his time. what was his backroom team for the down job?
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
Pete McGrath's wealth of experience and Aidan O'Rourke's new modern approach would be a great combination for Armagh. I can't understand this parochial childishness being displayed by certain Armagh "supporters" just because McGrath is from Down. If the man is good enough which he is then there should be nothing stopping Armagh from appointing him after he's gone through the agreed process.
He's not good enough for Down but he's good enough for Armagh?
Down may very well regret this decision in not appointing McGrath which could be compounded even more if McGrath became the new successful Armagh manager.
Personally, I wouldn't like Pete McGrath to be the Armagh manager. I think its naive to think that the only reason Armagh supporters wouldn't like him is because he's from Down. I wouldn't fancy Brian McEniff either but I've nothing against Donegal.
You would like to think that there is the potential to progress things under the new manager rather than hold the fort for a few years until a white knight appears
Does anyone know any sort of timeline for receiving new nominations, interviews etc?
I will support whomever the board chooses to be the next manager however I dont want it to be a down man. McGrath is Down through and through and apart from that he has had less than a stellar career in the past 12 or so years, he has accomplished little in that time.
Down could have had him but they seem to think he is washed up and they went with caravan man and that tells me even they feel McGrath has nothing left in the tank.
If it were Mickey Harte we were talking about I would jump at it, the man is a tremendous manager at this moment in time, Pete was that soldier 15 year ago, no longer.
Quote from: bennydorano on September 24, 2009, 07:11:12 PM
Quote from: The GAA on September 24, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
Quelle suprise. I dont see how it would be possible for to him to become manager so soon. Half of the panel cant stand the man from what I can gather. Last time I saw him manage he wasn't so clever looking UUJ v QUB, comprehensively outsmarted by McGuickan, maybe we should go for big adrain.
Half the panel can't stand o'rourke? why's that?
Actually, McGuckin is a hell of a shout. There's a man with pedigree, experience and a progressive approach. You see what we can do if we put our heads together.
Why don't the Armagh county board just put an advert in the Newry Reporter, they are bound to get someone that way.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on September 24, 2009, 09:33:35 PM
Why don't the Armagh county board just put an advert in the Newry Reporter, they are bound to get someone that way.
That was funnier in your head, wasn't it?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on September 24, 2009, 07:13:19 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on September 24, 2009, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: The GAA on September 24, 2009, 05:52:54 PM
On a serious note i don't think McGrath is the right fit for armagh. He's regarded within the game now as being "old school" and past his time, as good as he was in his time. what was his backroom team for the down job?
McNulty, Rafferty, McAlinden, murtagh, etc. all have their strengths but there is a fair understanding out there of their weaknesses too. Going on reputations i like o'rourke. his rep is of a tactically sharp and innovative coach ahead of his time - very like McGeeney. Those who rave about him don't cite weaknesses - there will always be some - but i'd rather go with someone like that who has the potential to be very good than an ordinary appointment seen as a "safe pair of hands".
Pete McGrath's wealth of experience and Aidan O'Rourke's new modern approach would be a great combination for Armagh. I can't understand this parochial childishness being displayed by certain Armagh "supporters" just because McGrath is from Down. If the man is good enough which he is then there should be nothing stopping Armagh from appointing him after he's gone through the agreed process.
He's not good enough for Down but he's good enough for Armagh?
No you got that wrong. Not good enough for Down but too good for Armagh
It wasn't meant to be funny. Seems like no one wants the job. At least give Joe Public the chance to apply now that no of the big name candidates want it.
Pete McGrath is just hurting because he didn't get the Down job, he`ll see sense soon enough.
Quote from: AFS on September 24, 2009, 09:46:42 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on September 24, 2009, 09:45:19 PM
It wasn't meant to be funny.
Yes it was, and it wasn't.
Typical Armagh know it all who knows f*ck all, a bit like your county board really. ;)
Quote from: Trevor Hill on September 24, 2009, 09:51:53 PM
Quote from: AFS on September 24, 2009, 09:46:42 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on September 24, 2009, 09:45:19 PM
It wasn't meant to be funny.
Yes it was, and it wasn't.
Typical Armagh know it all who knows f*ck all, a bit like your county board really. ;)
This is the second time you have tried to be funny in this thread and failed miserably. Don't give up your day job
Lads, can we move on from the aidan o'rourke thing. he already has a management job for next year.
Quote from: stew on September 24, 2009, 07:42:06 PM
I will support whomever the board chooses to be the next manager however I dont want it to be a down man. McGrath is Down through and through and apart from that he has had less than a stellar career in the past 12 or so years, he has accomplished little in that time.
Down could have had him but they seem to think he is washed up and they went with caravan man and that tells me even they feel McGrath has nothing left in the tank.
If it were Mickey Harte we were talking about I would jump at it, the man is a tremendous manager at this moment in time, Pete was that soldier 15 year ago, no longer.
Is this the same Pete McGrath that took Down to within a whisker of winning an All-Ireland U21 title a few months ago after beating a very talented Armagh U21 side on route? Neither the petty "he's from Down" or the "he's past his sell by date" argument make any rational sense. Try again
PatDaly, nothing anyone says to you about McGrath seems to make sense to you
I'd say the vast majority of Armagh supporters don't want him anywhere near Armagh senior team. You point to McGrath's triumphs with Down yet you keep conveniently forgetting that McGrath also led Down to the doldrums after '94. They are still there and will be for some time to come. McGrath would do more damage than good, he hates Armagh with a passion
Is that really the sort of manager you want Armagh to have?
Beefer Morrison and Mickey Moran ? :-\
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 25, 2009, 09:25:11 AM
PatDaly, nothing anyone says to you about McGrath seems to make sense to you
I'd say the vast majority of Armagh supporters don't want him anywhere near Armagh senior team. You point to McGrath's triumphs with Down yet you keep conveniently forgetting that McGrath also led Down to the doldrums after '94. They are still there and will be for some time to come. McGrath would do more damage than good, he hates Armagh with a passion
Is that really the sort of manager you want Armagh to have?
Has he told you this?
I was told this morning that Brian McAlinden will be the new manager with Liam McCorry taking over the Under 21s.
The person who told me would have inside information.
Over the course of this debate there has been more claims of contacts with inside information, uncles who know a man who knows another man. Allegedly Men who have cleaned out bookies in south Armagh on betting for the Monaghan assistant position !
I will believe it when i see someone on the sideline
Quote from: Carbery on September 25, 2009, 09:51:38 AM
I was told this morning that Brian McAlinden will be the new manager with Liam McCorry taking over the Under 21s.
The person who told me would have inside information.
;)
Quote from: Yes I Would on September 25, 2009, 09:37:29 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 25, 2009, 09:25:11 AM
PatDaly, nothing anyone says to you about McGrath seems to make sense to you
I'd say the vast majority of Armagh supporters don't want him anywhere near Armagh senior team. You point to McGrath's triumphs with Down yet you keep conveniently forgetting that McGrath also led Down to the doldrums after '94. They are still there and will be for some time to come. McGrath would do more damage than good, he hates Armagh with a passion
Is that really the sort of manager you want Armagh to have?
Has he told you this?
Read any of his numerous paper columns and various stints on any other media outlet that'll throw him a few bob and it becomes pretty obvious.
Quote from: Donagh on September 25, 2009, 11:52:17 AM
Quote from: Yes I Would on September 25, 2009, 09:37:29 AM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on September 25, 2009, 09:25:11 AM
PatDaly, nothing anyone says to you about McGrath seems to make sense to you
I'd say the vast majority of Armagh supporters don't want him anywhere near Armagh senior team. You point to McGrath's triumphs with Down yet you keep conveniently forgetting that McGrath also led Down to the doldrums after '94. They are still there and will be for some time to come. McGrath would do more damage than good, he hates Armagh with a passion
Is that really the sort of manager you want Armagh to have?
Has he told you this?
Read any of his numerous paper columns and various stints on any other media outlet that'll throw him a few bob and it becomes pretty obvious.
Dont agree..Of course rivalry exists between the two counties but such a statement surely is bullshit!
QuoteIs this the same Pete McGrath that took Down to within a whisker of winning an All-Ireland U21 title a few months ago after beating a very talented Armagh U21 side on route?
Nah its a totally different one from India who plays cricket and makes curry...who the f**k else is it going to be you choad
Quote from: rolloutking on September 25, 2009, 12:52:30 PM
QuoteIs this the same Pete McGrath that took Down to within a whisker of winning an All-Ireland U21 title a few months ago after beating a very talented Armagh U21 side on route?
Nah its a totally different one from India who plays cricket and makes curry...who the f**k else is it going to be you choad
You're a real class act. Thanks for the well thought out intellectual response
Not sure if it's already been mentioned as I'm too lazy to read back throough the thread, but what's the craic with Rafferty?
Quote from: ardal on September 25, 2009, 09:38:33 PM
Not sure if it's already been mentioned as I'm too lazy to read back throough the thread, but what's the craic with Rafferty?
He's doing well...working away and looking after the kids...i'll tell him you were asking about him ;)
The County manager will be picked tonight...expect the white smoke anytime between now & midnight...you heard it here first ;D
Wee Pete all the way - watch this space !
Thats my prediction anyhow - I may be wrong
If u hear let me no thanks.
Who wee pete. Can u put it on armagh board if u hear
Wee Pete is Pete McGrath
Quote from: illdecide on September 28, 2009, 10:26:28 PM
The County manager will be picked tonight...expect the white smoke anytime between now & midnight...you heard it here first ;D
Please forgive me lads i got my wires crossed, the new committee was formed last night and went over the possible candidates to which they will make an appointment in the very near future.
Paddy O`Rourke has expressed an interest in the Armagh job.
As if things weren't ridiculous enough already :D :D :D :D :D :D :'( :'(
McEneaney linked with manager's position in Armagh
By Donnchadh Boyle
Wednesday September 30 2009
FORMER Louth boss Eamonn McEneaney has become the latest to be linked with the vacant Armagh manager's job.
The Irish Independent understands that McEneaney has yet to receive an official approach from the Armagh County Board but that one of the clubs in the county has asked him allow his name to go forward for the post.
The Castleblayney clubman is believed to be interested in getting back into county management after stepping down as boss of the Wee County earlier this month.
The Armagh job remains one of the last of the high-profile posts that were up for grabs this year and the Orchard County have stepped up their search for Peter McDonnell's successor as the county's senior championship is due to be concluded next month, when Pearse Og meet Armagh Harps in the decider.
McEneaney completed four years of a five-year term in Louth and collected four pieces of silverware in that period -- including the 2006 National League Division Two title, when they beat Donegal in a replay.
Although Armagh have traditionally appointed from within the county -- McDonnell replaced Crossmaglen's Joe Kernan, who oversaw the Orchard county's only senior All-Ireland title in 2002, in 2007 -- they have not ruled out appointing an outsider on this occasion and, on a logistical basis at least, the job would suit McEneaney, who lives in Blackrock, just outside Dundalk.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/mceneaney-linked-with-managers-position--in-armagh-1899740.html
Stepping down, more like frog marched to the door. I can't believe any club would be daft enough to ask him to put his name forward, more bullshit to fill papers. You'd nearly wonder are our CB getting a cut of newspaper sales, considering how easy they're making life for the poor GAA journos with nothing else to write about this time of the year.
Eamon Mac would be a good choice.
Why don't they try to persuade Peter McDonnell to come back. He did reasonably well and would be a far better option than any of the names in the frame now.
Can the personality issues be put aside or have all the bridges been burnt?
Armagh are making a real pig's ear out of this. see there are no new nominations so did all the clubs who wanted Grimley just simply nominate Grimley again?
My Uncle is making a fortune out this ;)
Allegedly Joey Cunningham is the latest name to be linked?
Quote from: botman on September 30, 2009, 01:48:58 PM
My Uncle is making a fortune out this ;)
How?
BRING BACK McDONNELL!
We should just take over Monaghan.
:-*
Anyway, we'll hardly be shaking at the though of that plan ever seeing the light of day.
First you have to set up a committee, then you have consult the clubs, after that then you have see who is left alive after all the backstabbing .....
I think you know the score.
We wouldn't want Ballybay in any case.
John Shorty Treanor of Burren and Down and currently managing St Pats in Louth also linked with Armagh job.
Some crackpot names being bandied about here. I wonder what scoop the Sun's sister paper (Irish News) will have for us tomorrow?
Quote from: No way ref on September 30, 2009, 10:07:44 PM
John Shorty Treanor of Burren and Down and currently managing St Pats in Louth also linked with Armagh job.
I heard that Jack Charlton is throwing his hat in the ring as well ;D, this really is becoming more farcical every day............ cue the 'fcuk of back to down thread'
Quote from: mournerambler on September 30, 2009, 10:51:30 PM
Quote from: No way ref on September 30, 2009, 10:07:44 PM
John Shorty Treanor of Burren and Down and currently managing St Pats in Louth also linked with Armagh job.
I heard that Jack Charlton is throwing his hat in the ring as well ;D, this really is becoming more farcical every day............ cue the 'fcuk of back to down thread'
But the laughs are better over here on this thread as the Armagh ones make a pigs ear of their appointment or lack of one.
Keep the names coming and we'll laugh all the harder. ;D ;D ;D
Suppose its only fair that we take our turn providing a few laughs now and again, afterall you boys have been hard at it for 15 years solid now.
Agree with you 100% AFS, it's been great watching from the wings as Armagh win numerous All-Ireland's in those 15 years you are talking about ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: No way ref on September 30, 2009, 10:07:44 PM
John Shorty Treanor of Burren and Down and currently managing St Pats in Louth also linked with Armagh job.
Just heard he told them to f**k off
James McCartan Snr the latest man to be linked with the job. They`ll get someone eventually.
Given the mess that this county is in, surely it is time to nationalise them?
Could they not just get a member of the Lurgan Wine Team to do the job. It would be nice to see someone from the north of the county get the job for a change.
the short list is getting longer
Roy Keane would be a good option since according to Dwight Yorke he smashes things at the half-time break when it's not going well out on the pitch. Armagh players seems to react well to such spontaneous bursts of anger & violence.
i would do it for £60,000
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on October 01, 2009, 03:29:12 PM
i would do it for £60,000
id say they wouldnt take ye if you were paying them the 60k
Quotei would do it for £60,000
id say they wouldnt take ye if you were paying them the 60k
From what we all know of the 'pocket-liners' on the Armagh County board I'd say they'd take Willie Frazer if he paid the £60k and try to convince the supporters that he was the next Micko!
your probably right but sure might as well throw the hat into the ring like everyone else is
training changed to friday night
Quote from: StGallsGAA on October 01, 2009, 03:15:04 PM
Armagh players seems to react well to such spontaneous bursts of anger & violence.
At half time in the Ulster final Antrim also responded well to the promise of new Harland and Wolfe shellsuits if they put it up to Tyrone in the second half. So near yet so far.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8285103.stm
Rafferty now Armagh front-runner
John Rafferty
John Rafferty served at Joe Kernan's Armagh assistant in 2007
John Rafferty now appears to be emerging as the favourite to become the new Armagh senior football manager.
BBC Sport understands that the Armagh players plumped for Rafferty as their latest choice to succeed Peter McDonnell at a meeting on Monday night.
The players initially backed Paul Grimley for the job before he opted to join the Monaghan management team.
The Armagh board has already sought the players' views on the issue and they appear to carry significant weight.
The county board came in for criticism from certain quarters when Grimley opted out, apparently unhappy at the the pace of the process and also the response of Armagh officials to a number of his job requirements.
This was then followed by a high-profile statement from Armagh players which strongly criticised the county board's conducting of the process.
After that the county board made attempts to seek the players' views and the official line now appears to be the players are the best qualified people to decide on who the new manager should be.
Rafferty is understood to have received overwhelming support from the squad at Monday's players meeting.
Contrary to earlier reports which suggested that former Meath boss Sean Boylan was the latest preferred choice of the Armagh players, it appears that they are keen for an Orchard County native to be handed the job.
There have also been suggestions that Brian McAlinden could still be in contention to return to the job despite saying that he wasn't interested in the role several weeks ago.
Crossmaglen manager Donal Murtagh, ex-Louth and Monaghan boss Eamon McEneaney and former Down boss Peter McGrath have also been linked with the Armagh role.
As a player, Rafferty helped Armagh clinch the 1999 Ulster title and his management career includes guiding Antrim club St Gall's to the 2006 All-Ireland Club final, where they were narrowly defeated by Salthill.
He also served as Joe Kernan's assistant during the Crossmaglen man's final year in charge in 2007.
Rafferty, who currently manages Down club team Rostrevor, was interviewed for the Armagh job in the autumn of 2007 but opted out of the process prior to Peter McDonnell's appointment.
Is the tail wagging the dog? In any job that I worked, I was never asked who I'd like as my manager!
Quote from: Sandy Hill on October 01, 2009, 05:31:32 PM
Is the tail wagging the dog? In any job that I worked, I was never asked who I'd like as my manager!
It seems some of the players on last years panel have lost the run of themselves. Shame.
You heard it here first. ;) At least they arent from Down. :D
(http://www.notbbc.co.uk/images/giggle_library/dir_0/notbbc_43_19.jpg)
Quote from: mhacadoir on October 01, 2009, 05:06:47 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8285103.stm
Rafferty now Armagh front-runner
John Rafferty
John Rafferty served at Joe Kernan's Armagh assistant in 2007
John Rafferty now appears to be emerging as the favourite to become the new Armagh senior football manager.
BBC Sport understands that the Armagh players plumped for Rafferty as their latest choice to succeed Peter McDonnell at a meeting on Monday night.
The players initially backed Paul Grimley for the job before he opted to join the Monaghan management team.
The Armagh board has already sought the players' views on the issue and they appear to carry significant weight.
The county board came in for criticism from certain quarters when Grimley opted out, apparently unhappy at the the pace of the process and also the response of Armagh officials to a number of his job requirements.
This was then followed by a high-profile statement from Armagh players which strongly criticised the county board's conducting of the process.
After that the county board made attempts to seek the players' views and the official line now appears to be the players are the best qualified people to decide on who the new manager should be.
Rafferty is understood to have received overwhelming support from the squad at Monday's players meeting.
Contrary to earlier reports which suggested that former Meath boss Sean Boylan was the latest preferred choice of the Armagh players, it appears that they are keen for an Orchard County native to be handed the job.
There have also been suggestions that Brian McAlinden could still be in contention to return to the job despite saying that he wasn't interested in the role several weeks ago.
Crossmaglen manager Donal Murtagh, ex-Louth and Monaghan boss Eamon McEneaney and former Down boss Peter McGrath have also been linked with the Armagh role.
As a player, Rafferty helped Armagh clinch the 1999 Ulster title and his management career includes guiding Antrim club St Gall's to the 2006 All-Ireland Club final, where they were narrowly defeated by Salthill.
He also served as Joe Kernan's assistant during the Crossmaglen man's final year in charge in 2007.
Rafferty, who currently manages Down club team Rostrevor, was interviewed for the Armagh job in the autumn of 2007 but opted out of the process prior to Peter McDonnell's appointment.
Well if the county board are putting all their faith in the players then that's their latest bloody mistake. Talk about going from one extreme to the other! Please God someone stop this now...every day it gets more painful.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on October 01, 2009, 03:15:04 PM
Roy Keane would be a good option since according to Dwight Yorke he smashes things at the half-time break when it's not going well out on the pitch. Armagh players seems to react well to such spontaneous bursts of anger & violence.
Roy's tied into a contract with Ipswich.
I would find this hard to believe. we really shouldn't take these articles at face value lads. If Rafferty is front runner then fair enough but i don't believe for a second it's at the players' behest.
I was told, about 2/3 weeks ago, by someone very close to J Rafferty that he wasn't remotely interested in the job but maybe he has changed his mind. I'm not so sure that he made, or was allowed to make much contribution when he was No. 2 to J Kernan. I got the impression watching him on the sideline that time that he was Kernan's "gofor". He might just be the best of our homegrown talent, though I think I'd prefer Peter Rafferty.
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 09:15:04 PM
I would find this hard to believe. we really shouldn't take these articles at face value lads. If Rafferty is front runner then fair enough but i don't believe for a second it's at the players' behest.
JR did a good enough job at St Galls a few years ago.
Quote from: Orior on October 01, 2009, 10:49:40 PM
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 09:15:04 PM
I would find this hard to believe. we really shouldn't take these articles at face value lads. If Rafferty is front runner then fair enough but i don't believe for a second it's at the players' behest.
JR did a good enough job at St Galls a few years ago.
He did indeed. He took them to an AIF, where they lost, so he should be favourite for the job. He has the right credentials. ;)
Absolutely Orior - not doubting his credentials at all. ulster clubs are hard to win and particularly for an antrim club.
also won a championship with blayney?
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 11:25:35 PM
Absolutely Orior - not doubting his credentials at all. ulster clubs are hard to win and particularly for an antrim club.
also won a championship with blayney?
Did indeed, our last one in 2003 and should have given Ulster a rattle only to loss a player after 5 minutes against Four masters in Clones in a replay.
Very highly rated in Blayney, loved the physical stuff and expected commitment that he didn't get from all players at the time and why he probably left before his time was up. Went to St Galls and club where very disappointed at the time, as he had committed and started the year.
Quote from: bingobus on October 02, 2009, 10:22:45 AM
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 11:25:35 PM
Absolutely Orior - not doubting his credentials at all. ulster clubs are hard to win and particularly for an antrim club.
also won a championship with blayney?
Did indeed, our last one in 2003 and should have given Ulster a rattle only to loss a player after 5 minutes against Four masters in Clones in a replay.
Very highly rated in Blayney, loved the physical stuff and expected commitment that he didn't get from all players at the time and why he probably left before his time was up. Went to St Galls and club where very disappointed at the time, as he had committed and started the year.
Funny that, he had committed to Errigal Ciaran this year before jumping ship
QuoteAfter that the county board made attempts to seek the players' views and the official line now appears to be the players are the best qualified people to decide on who the new manager should be.
The Armagh comedy side-show descends into farce. Now the players get to pick the manager.
What will happen if the players can't agree? Will they take a straw poll of the buckie-brigade in the Shambles? Or maybe they'll go down the to the Toss and flick a coin?? ;D
Quote from: No way ref on October 02, 2009, 11:00:34 AM
Quote from: bingobus on October 02, 2009, 10:22:45 AM
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 11:25:35 PM
Absolutely Orior - not doubting his credentials at all. ulster clubs are hard to win and particularly for an antrim club.
also won a championship with blayney?
Did indeed, our last one in 2003 and should have given Ulster a rattle only to loss a player after 5 minutes against Four masters in Clones in a replay.
Very highly rated in Blayney, loved the physical stuff and expected commitment that he didn't get from all players at the time and why he probably left before his time was up. Went to St Galls and club where very disappointed at the time, as he had committed and started the year.
Funny that, he had committed to Errigal Ciaran this year before jumping ship
Was it not last year before he went to Slaughtneil?
I hear Brian McAlinden will be announced as the new Armagh manager inside the next twelve hours.
He has been chosen by the players and his appointment will just have to be ratified by the County Board.
Quote from: Carbery on October 02, 2009, 11:41:11 AM
I hear Brian McAlinden will be announced as the new Armagh manager inside the next twelve hours.
He has been chosen by the players and his appointment will just have to be ratified by the County Board.
If this was Cork there'd be awful giving out about it...
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 09:15:04 PM
I would find this hard to believe. we really shouldn't take these articles at face value lads. If Rafferty is front runner then fair enough but i don't believe for a second it's at the players' behest.
Spot on.
Quote
I hear Brian McAlinden will be announced as the new Armagh manager inside the next twelve hours.
He has been chosen by the players and his appointment will just have to be ratified by the County Board.
Would seriously doubt the credibility of this as well, particularly the chosen by the players bit. Don't think there's anything to suggest that the players have expressed preference for anybody other than Grimley.
I'd probably have a preference for Donal Murtagh at this stage.
with the way the whole process has gone it is going to be very difficult for the new man coming in,he will be under severe scrutiny
Quote from: Drumanee 1 on October 02, 2009, 12:15:28 PM
with the way the whole process has gone it is going to be very difficult for the new man coming in,he will be under severe scrutiny
Perhaps, although there'll be many in the county, including myself, that'll be willing to extend more grace than usual given the circumstances. There's widespread acceptance in the county that we're not going to be near the top again for at least 2 or 3 years.
That said, no doubt there'll be a number of clowns shouting to get the new man out after we lose a McKenna cup game this January. These same clowns were screaming to get McDonnell out and Grimley in before a ball was kicked in anger two years ago.
Quote from: tyrone86 on October 02, 2009, 11:14:01 AM
Quote from: No way ref on October 02, 2009, 11:00:34 AM
Quote from: bingobus on October 02, 2009, 10:22:45 AM
Quote from: The GAA on October 01, 2009, 11:25:35 PM
Absolutely Orior - not doubting his credentials at all. ulster clubs are hard to win and particularly for an antrim club.
also won a championship with blayney?
Did indeed, our last one in 2003 and should have given Ulster a rattle only to loss a player after 5 minutes against Four masters in Clones in a replay.
Very highly rated in Blayney, loved the physical stuff and expected commitment that he didn't get from all players at the time and why he probably left before his time was up. Went to St Galls and club where very disappointed at the time, as he had committed and started the year.
Funny that, he had committed to Errigal Ciaran this year before jumping ship
Was it not last year before he went to Slaughtneil?
No it was the start of this year before he decided to take the post to manage us in January.
Rafferty took our boys in 2008 and got them to the co final. Seems to get his teams playing with great passion.
Quote from: mhacadoir on October 01, 2009, 05:06:47 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8285103.stm
Rafferty now Armagh front-runner
John Rafferty
John Rafferty served at Joe Kernan's Armagh assistant in 2007
John Rafferty now appears to be emerging as the favourite to become the new Armagh senior football manager.
Le cuidiu Dé he'll get it ;)
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 02, 2009, 02:45:33 PM
Quote from: mhacadoir on October 01, 2009, 05:06:47 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8285103.stm
Rafferty now Armagh front-runner
John Rafferty
John Rafferty served at Joe Kernan's Armagh assistant in 2007
John Rafferty now appears to be emerging as the favourite to become the new Armagh senior football manager.
Le cuidiu Dé he'll get it ;)
5 sams i hear he is in the running for ballyholland next year
Paddy O'Rourke?
heard Paddy O'Rourke too ONeill, from a well placed source, anyone know were you could place a bet on the next manager??
New armagh manager to be announced tonight
Paddy O'Rourke definitely gaining ground, apparently. Are there any bookies open?
If its paddy o'rourke i'll not be going to watch them next year or til he's gone. and the longest day i live i'll not contribute another penny to armagh
Quote from: naka on October 02, 2009, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 02, 2009, 02:45:33 PM
Quote from: mhacadoir on October 01, 2009, 05:06:47 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8285103.stm
Rafferty now Armagh front-runner
John Rafferty
John Rafferty served at Joe Kernan's Armagh assistant in 2007
John Rafferty now appears to be emerging as the favourite to become the new Armagh senior football manager.
Le cuidiu Dé he'll get it ;)
5 sams i hear he is in the running for ballyholland next year
He's been with us already Naka...hence my post :-\
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 02, 2009, 08:00:13 PM
Quote from: naka on October 02, 2009, 03:30:01 PM
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 02, 2009, 02:45:33 PM
Quote from: mhacadoir on October 01, 2009, 05:06:47 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8285103.stm
Rafferty now Armagh front-runner
John Rafferty
John Rafferty served at Joe Kernan's Armagh assistant in 2007
John Rafferty now appears to be emerging as the favourite to become the new Armagh senior football manager.
Le cuidiu Dé he'll get it ;)
5 sams i hear he is in the running for ballyholland next year
He's been with us already Naka...hence my post :-\
To be fair the best way of comparing Down's new manager with John Rafferty would be be looking at how they did with the club they both managed, in which case, it would seem Armagh would be getting the better end of the bargain with Rafferty.
Irish News today has the players presenting 5 options - Peter Rafferty, Jim McConville, John Rafferty, Brian McAlinden and Paddy O'Rourke. At least two of those have the look of joke candidates. It seems as though the Irish News are continuing their policy of printing complete nonsense in relation to this story. I find it hard to believe that the players presenting any such list.
Players wouldn't nominate paddy o'rourke? no way
Quote from: DuffleKing on October 02, 2009, 07:59:24 PM
If its paddy o'rourke i'll not be going to watch them next year or til he's gone. and the longest day i live i'll not contribute another penny to armagh
could be missing a few armagh games duffleking, hear O'Rourke is a certainty, still cant get odds on him online anywere! hear O'Rourke was told today
I would like to think the players would have more f**king sense
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 02, 2009, 08:10:47 PM
I would like to think the players would have more f**king sense
I can't see any way that the players would nominate Jim McConville ahead of Donal Murtagh or Paddy O'Rourke over Pete McGrath.
paddy o rourke announcd
Logan you certainly have the inside track--well done
logan flagged this up weeks ago
If paddy o'rourke is even considered I'm declaring my loyalty to another county.
Fuckin Hellhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anzn5u--AZ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anzn5u--AZ4)
Quote from: Midman on October 02, 2009, 08:22:21 PM
Fuckin Hellhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anzn5u--AZ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anzn5u--AZ4)
Utube says this is not available in my Country!!
Is it the leak about O'Rourke?
I honestly feel like saying I'm not going to go to matches this year over the way this sordid affair has been handled and concluded. I'm not going to go that far because I know I wouldn't stick to it but I'm angered and disgusted at this announcement.
sorry.....but this is buckin hilarious.
I am sick over this, f**king sick to my stomach, I'm away to get polaxed, I had planned to come home to watch them next year for the first round championship match and if by some miracle they were still involved in August i would have went again, no way now. I wont go again until O'Rourke is gone.
So McGrath was available but instead let him go and took O'Rourke. The mind boggles.
Paddy is not a bad fella at all, we have a mutual friend and I have met him quite a few times, not the least of which was AIF day in 02 but he has no business managing Armagh.
Gutted, end of.
:o
Paddy orouke 100 from county board, deadly
:D :D :D
Quote from: stew on October 02, 2009, 08:37:11 PM
I am sick over this, f**king sick to my stomach, I'm away to get polaxed, I had planned to come home to watch them next year for the first round championship match and if by some miracle they were still involved in August i would have went again, no way now. I wont go again until O'Rourke is gone.
So McGrath was available but instead let him go and took O'Rourke. The mind boggles.
Paddy is not a bad fella at all, we have a mutual friend and I have met him quite a few times, not the least of which was AIF day in 02 but he has no business managing Armagh.
Gutted, end of.
Surely he should be given a chance ? He might be not too bad ? Any word of a backroom team ?
Sorry lads.....but I have to laugh...this is un fuckin believable...... :D :D :D :D
Quote from: orangeman on October 02, 2009, 08:50:22 PM
Quote from: stew on October 02, 2009, 08:37:11 PM
I am sick over this, f**king sick to my stomach, I'm away to get polaxed, I had planned to come home to watch them next year for the first round championship match and if by some miracle they were still involved in August i would have went again, no way now. I wont go again until O'Rourke is gone.
So McGrath was available but instead let him go and took O'Rourke. The mind boggles.
Paddy is not a bad fella at all, we have a mutual friend and I have met him quite a few times, not the least of which was AIF day in 02 but he has no business managing Armagh.
Gutted, end of.
Surely he should be given a chance ? He might be not too bad ? Any word of a backroom team ?
Sean Ward & Shorty Trainor :D
Quote from: 5 Sams on October 02, 2009, 08:53:26 PM
Sorry lads.....but I have to laugh...this is un fuckin believable...... :D :D :D :D
If ye had appointed Peter Mc Donnell in Down it would have made more sense than this...at least he won an Ulster Title (worthless as they are).
I honestly dont blame you for laughing but spare a thought for the ordinary gaels like yourself who just follow the team, and have no say in this.
Quote from: Cúig huaire on September 29, 2009, 11:02:25 PM
Paddy O`Rourke has expressed an interest in the Armagh job.
Remeber you heard it here first. ;)
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on September 09, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
My Money is on wee james and Paddy O Rourke team.
no ye didnt, ye heard it here first.....
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on October 02, 2009, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on September 09, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
My Money is on wee james and Paddy O Rourke team.
no ye didnt, ye heard it here first.....
Is Wee James part of Paddys backroom team? ;)
ah get away out of that, sure i made a typo... ;)
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on October 02, 2009, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on September 09, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
My Money is on wee james and Paddy O Rourke team.
no ye didnt, ye heard it here first.....
Logan had it on 5th September.
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on October 02, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
I honestly dont blame you for laughing but spare a thought for the ordinary gaels like yourself who just follow the team, and have no say in this.
Its the ordinary gaels that I am most happy for. you would think to hear these so called ordinary gaels that armagh invented football. Maybe they will shut up for a while.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 02, 2009, 09:09:18 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on October 02, 2009, 09:04:15 PM
Quote from: Brick Tamlin on September 09, 2009, 12:30:46 PM
My Money is on wee james and Paddy O Rourke team.
no ye didnt, ye heard it here first.....
Logan had it on 5th September.
I think the Armagh posters should know that we were taking the piss.
Though it doesnt seem like their county board is. :D
nope i wasnt takin the piss....id known he was interested at an early stage.
Just on RTE tv news. Thats the third earthquake this week.
Horrified at this. What has JohnRaff done wrong
Quote from: Trevor Hill on October 02, 2009, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on October 02, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
I honestly dont blame you for laughing but spare a thought for the ordinary gaels like yourself who just follow the team, and have no say in this.
Its the ordinary gaels that I am most happy for. you would think to hear these so called ordinary gaels that armagh invented football. Maybe they will shut up for a while.
Obsessed ::)
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 02, 2009, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on October 02, 2009, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on October 02, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
I honestly dont blame you for laughing but spare a thought for the ordinary gaels like yourself who just follow the team, and have no say in this.
Its the ordinary gaels that I am most happy for. you would think to hear these so called ordinary gaels that armagh invented football. Maybe they will shut up for a while.
Obsessed ::)
Delighted ;)
Quote from: Trevor Hill on October 02, 2009, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on October 02, 2009, 09:30:48 PM
Quote from: Trevor Hill on October 02, 2009, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: Armaghtothebone on October 02, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
I honestly dont blame you for laughing but spare a thought for the ordinary gaels like yourself who just follow the team, and have no say in this.
Its the ordinary gaels that I am most happy for. you would think to hear these so called ordinary gaels that armagh invented football. Maybe they will shut up for a while.
Obsessed ::)
Delighted ;)
Disgusted. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
A joke appointment. Just had a text that sums up the reaction of most Armagh supporters. "Let's all get behind him....& push him off a cliff!"
Give us Barabas, or even Tommy Lyons!
Quote from: BroJolly on October 02, 2009, 09:29:05 PM
Horrified at this. What has JohnRaff done wrong
Nothing - he's got a job!!
Quote from: stew on September 24, 2009, 07:42:06 PM
I will support whomever the board chooses to be the next manager however I dont want it to be a down man. McGrath is Down through and through and apart from that he has had less than a stellar career in the past 12 or so years, he has accomplished little in that time.
You`d take McGrath now. :D
Quote from: Cúig huaire on October 02, 2009, 10:21:27 PM
Quote from: stew on September 24, 2009, 07:42:06 PM
I will support whomever the board chooses to be the next manager however I dont want it to be a down man. McGrath is Down through and through and apart from that he has had less than a stellar career in the past 12 or so years, he has accomplished little in that time.
You`d take McGrath now. :D
Shouldnt you be out looking for someone to beat up or something? ::)
Quote from: pintsofguinness on October 02, 2009, 10:23:57 PM
Quote from: Cúig huaire on October 02, 2009, 10:21:27 PM
Quote from: stew on September 24, 2009, 07:42:06 PM
I will support whomever the board chooses to be the next manager however I dont want it to be a down man. McGrath is Down through and through and apart from that he has had less than a stellar career in the past 12 or so years, he has accomplished little in that time.
You`d take McGrath now. :D
Shouldnt you be out looking for someone to beat up or something? ::)
This is more fun.
Is this true? I won't believe it until I hear something official.
Quote from: Lecale2 on October 03, 2009, 01:14:32 PM
Is this true? I won't believe it until I hear something official.
Its on the county board website Lecale.
QuoteIs this true? I won't believe it until I hear something official.
I said give us Barabas, not Thomas!
When I started this thread, I hadn't expected this end!
This is shocking. If he wins us another all-Ireland, then I wont care.
However the liklihood of that is zero.
Quote from: Orior on October 04, 2009, 12:02:47 AM
This is shocking. If he wins us another all-Ireland, then I wont care.
However the liklihood of that is zero.
I wouldn't even put it that high :D
Down now have 2 chances at winning Ulster next year. :D
QuoteDown now have 2 chances at winning Ulster next year.
Glad to hear you admit it.
Unfortunately Armagh is now not much better.
Did the clubs in Armagh not appoint Paddy O'Rourke?
If so. What is all the complaining about?
Hitler took power in a "democratic" process.
Quote from: armaghniac on October 04, 2009, 02:15:19 PM
Hitler took power in a "democratic" process.
Await the Hitler viral with subtitles to this whole shambolic process
Heres the Dublin V Kerry one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wN_JpB8rSQ
Quote from: Cúig huaire on October 02, 2009, 10:21:27 PM
Quote from: stew on September 24, 2009, 07:42:06 PM
I will support whomever the board chooses to be the next manager however I dont want it to be a down man. McGrath is Down through and through and apart from that he has had less than a stellar career in the past 12 or so years, he has accomplished little in that time.
You`d take McGrath now. :D
Nah, Paddy has my full support.
Quote from: Carbery on October 04, 2009, 01:39:08 PM
Did the clubs in Armagh not appoint Paddy O'Rourke?
If so. What is all the complaining about?
Read in Sunday Times today that O'Rourke was one of five names that the players gave to the selection committee as "favoured candidates" so maybe they should take some of the blame that is being dished out.
QuoteIf paddy o'rourke is even considered I'm declaring my loyalty to another county.
LOL. Pints I knew you were always a closet Tyrone fan anyway. ;D
p.s. Heard O'Rourke wasnt even first choice. Who turned it down?
A very disrespecttful thread with some Down posters even worse than Armagh ones IMO.
POR will do a good job for Armagh. He will certainly give it his all and if players are open minded enough to give him a chance I would expect a min of the Ulster title. The team will be fit, physical & direct ..all part of Armagh and POR style.
I note that your County Board don't seem to be as quick with their club results as they were with the interview with their new manager.
Quote from: Bensars on October 04, 2009, 04:06:12 PM
Heres the Dublin V Kerry one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wN_JpB8rSQ
DEREK SCALLY in Berlin
WHEN IT comes to parody there's just no beating Hitler, but not for much longer.
For years, the deceased dictator has been fuming on YouTube about everything from Apple's iPad to the death of Michael Jackson. Even the Lisbon Treaty attracted the Führer's fury.
The parodies all work the same way, borrowing the most explosive moment from the 2004 Hitler film Downfall .
In the scene Hitler, played by Swiss actor Bruno Ganz, hears from his anxious generals that their army has been overwhelmed and the war is all but over.
The dictator explodes in a torrent of angry German, but parodies have altered the subtitles to suit their own needs.
And so, in the Lisbon Treaty parody, Hitler is in fact Brian Cowen being told that the first referendum has been defeated. The incensed leader goes on a rant against everyone who he thinks contributed to the treaty's defeat: the middle classes, farmers and even members of his Cabinet.
The video ends with Hitler/Cowen saying he needs a treaty defeat "like he needs a hole in the head" and this as the economy is going "to hell in a hand cart".
But now the German producers of the 2004 Hitler film Downfall have stepped in to stop the laughter.
Constantin Film claims the unauthorised use of clips from the film is a breach of its copyright and has asked YouTube to remove Hitler parodies from the site – nearly 200 at last count – each attracting hundreds of thousands of views.
Many see the action as heavy-handed, particularly as a fan of the parodies is the film's director, Oliver Hirschbiegel. He told New York magazine in January that he had seen at least 145 versions of Hitler freaking out.
"Many times the lines are so funny, I laugh out loud, and I'm laughing about the scene that I staged myself," he said. "You couldn't get a better compliment as a director."
But Constantin does not feel flattered. "We always take action against copyright infringement of our content," said chairman Martin Moszkowicz.
The clips have already begun to vanish.
Quote from: Carbery on October 04, 2009, 09:47:04 PM
I note that your County Board don't seem to be as quick with their club results as they were with the interview with their new manager.
Amen to that.
from today's Indo
Paddy O'Rourke is a thick-skinned man. He has to be. Last week he stepped between the ropes to raise funds for the St Mary's Youth Club, Burren, of which he is chairman, wearing an Armagh football shirt!
Burren, Co Down, is his home club, his three-round bout was against the Mourne corner-back Daniel McCartan -- the brother of James -- who was sent off in the recent Division 2 league final, and the odds, despite his edge in size, seemed against him. For good measure, the orange shirt was sure to get local passions stirring.
Naturally there were jeers, all friendly, of course, given the status he enjoys in the famed club.
But defying convention -- it's the only way to describe the act of a Down man wearing an Armagh shirt at a fundraising venture in Burren, however lighthearted it is -- is something O'Rourke has grown to live with. He won the bout and, for his good nature, the crowd too.
volatile
He's been winning them over in Armagh too, slowly but surely. Eight months ago he stepped through the ropes to a much more volatile reception, the first time Armagh had gone 'outside' for someone to guide their flagship team.
Managers have come and gone to and from 'enemy territory' in the GAA for many years now, but Armagh/ Down is not one of the great trading routes.
So rarely has an appointment in Gaelic games triggered such a reaction. Billy Morgan to Kerry or Babs Keating to Cork it may not have been, but Armagh/Down remains one of the acutest rivalries in the game and ushering such a figure as O'Rourke in was never going to be seamless. Publicly, they collectively bit their lips in Armagh; privately, the scepticism abounded.
It wasn't the appointment of O'Rourke in particular but the fundamental of the county needing to cast it net outside.
After so much success and the evolution of so many strong personalities, was it really necessary to land hook and line to Down of all places? O'Rourke's appointment was held up as the final damning evidence of a county that had blown their own boom.
The odds as to how long he could last in such a furnace were short. But from the moment he called on Armagh players to "earn and die" for the jersey, his graph has been rising steadily.
Armagh football looks at peace with itself once more. What more can O'Rourke have done than to orchestrate the downfall of his own native county in last month's league final?
Nothing reflects the success of his short tenure more than the impressive rejuvenation of Steven McDonnell.
For the best part of the decade, McDonnell has been Armagh's gilt-edged forward, the man who dug them out of holes with his unerring accuracy and ball-winning prowess. But in more recent times, Stevie had lost his lustre. The old swagger from his game, the confidence he oozed, had left him.
When he got his marching orders against Monaghan in Clones last July the thought crossed his mind in the following weeks that it may be time to pack it in.
This week, McDonnell intimated that it was the buzz he felt at a U2 concert he attended later that month that convinced him to drop thoughts of retirement. Looking around Croke Park, he was sure he wanted to return.
As much as that was the case, however, the arrival of O'Rourke across the county boundary could be responsible just as much for the regeneration of one of the most clinical forwards of the last decade.
It is said that McDonnell was one of the catalysts for Armagh taking up the trail of the former Down manager and captain in the first place.
There were others involved too in encouraging the controversial appointment, but within the dressing-room it was McDonnell who had the conviction that it could happen. Against that background, he has felt the need to deliver and reciprocate the dynamic between them.
Essentially, O'Rourke is considered to be a players' man. He was a popular captain of the Down team that won the All-Ireland title after a 23-year gap in 1991, having foraged unsuccessfully with the county for 13 years.
He's had success with his own Burren in Down and Castleblayney in Monaghan while, off the field, he's a director of a highly profitable building company, Garrivan and O'Rourke Ltd, with extensive interests in London, where he spends time.
He spent four years as Down manager and, in so many respects, he ended his term there largely unfulfilled. An appeal for one more year was turned down by Down delegates at the end of the 2006 season, paving the way for Ross Carr and DJ Kane to take over.
That summer he had substituted Liam Doyle in the closing stages of an Ulster championship match against Donegal in Ballybofey. Doyle had been a doubt beforehand but he was the team's left-footed free-taker.
As it transpired, Down won a free that suited a left-footed kicker in the closing stages to draw the game, but it was the right-footed Danny Hughes who had to accept responsibility and he missed. It caused a furore, but O'Rourke accepted full responsibility and, ultimately, that was the beginning of the end for him as they subsequently lost a qualifier to Sligo.
"He certainly didn't get out of it what he put into it," reflected the Down chairman that year, Gerry Quinn. "Probably to this day Paddy would feel that. It's why he sought just one more year. He'd be considered everywhere he goes to be a great man-manager."
That view is echoed by the current Armagh team trainer Mike McGurn, who delivered a glowing overview on what he contributes. McGurn, who is Eddie O'Sullivan's former fitness trainer with Ireland and is well regarded across the whole sporting spectrum, hasn't come across a better man-manager in sport.
"Paddy has got to be one of the best man-managers I've ever experienced, and that includes professional sport. I think the IRFU could take a leaf out of his book and learn about man-management. I was really surprised by him," admitted McGurn. "I used to get a great kick out of going to watch GAA teams and watching the sideline, seeing a manager gesticulating to the referee and playing to the crowd. I'd think to myself, 'This is so embarrassing, get back in your dug-out'.
"Paddy is brilliant; he is very calm, relaxed, he emphasises enjoyment. We enjoy what we do because of Paddy. Maybe it's because he is a business man. He has this man-management skill that I haven't see before in any professional sport."
Those skills would surely have manifested in one of the first conversations he had on his appointment in Armagh last autumn. The selection process left plenty with bloodied noses, but the flow had not been stemmed from Donal Murtagh when the call came from O'Rourke offering the position as No 2.
Murtagh had bristled publicly about the way the process had been undertaken, claiming he got three conflicting phone calls abut the job but no interview.
Similarly Justin McNulty has admitted to being sceptical about the appointment of a man from outside the county when potentially so many candidates lay within.
But he too was taken by O'Rourke's drive and commitment to success and accepted the offer to become the third selector. It's said that a man cannot be a prophet in his own land. But Paddy O'Rourke has them sitting up and listening not too far away.